1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:05,100 This is epicenter. Episode 465, def con recap, 2 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:09,800 2022, with guests, Nick Johnson, a trolley cover, David Hoffman. 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:27,200 And Joseph Schweitzer, welcome to epicenter the show 4 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,900 which talks about Technologies projects and people driving 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,100 Decentralization. And the blockchain revolution. 6 00:00:32,299 --> 00:00:35,400 I am afraid we can't and I'm here with a whole host of people 7 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:39,200 live from def con 20, 20 my guests today are Nick Johnson 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,900 from ens a net. Raleigh cover from nevermind. 9 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:45,700 David Hoffman from Bankers and Joseph Schweitzer from the 10 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:53,400 theorem foundation and we will talk about Defcon 20 22, which 11 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:59,500 is just finishing up today. 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Think might be a great fit for 40 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:35,500 this and without further delay, let's go to the panel. 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,200 Hi. This is Peter Baker coming to 42 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,000 you from Bogota on the fourth and final day of Def con Defcon 43 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000 6 that is I am here with Joseph from the etherium foundation and 44 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,500 match from never mind, Nick from ens. 45 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:57,300 And David from Bank - cool. Thank you, guys, for joining. 46 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,100 This is been a pleasure, maybe let's talk the big picture 47 00:03:01,100 --> 00:03:03,200 first. How have you been enjoying the 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,300 conference Joseph as the person who is, who has been Wearing the 49 00:03:08,300 --> 00:03:12,500 hatch of organizing this I'll give you a dips on the answer. 50 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:18,300 I would say I'm very glad to see how much the focus has been on 51 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:23,800 the substance as an organizer. Its first of all, giant shout 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,300 out to Skyler, river in the whole Devcon team who thanks to 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,800 multiple years of covid, sat through three years of 54 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,400 organizing and trying to improve from one year to the next to the 55 00:03:35,408 --> 00:03:38,600 next to the next. But, Frances, I think tend to 56 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,900 break down on lines of either hyper substance and is something 57 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:45,500 grows larger, you know, from where it was at 50 people in 58 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:49,300 2014 to over 6,000. It's hard to hold on to 59 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:52,000 providing value to an ecosystem at a conference. 60 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,500 So when you see lines outside of every talk Hall and side stage 61 00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:00,100 waiting to get into the next sessions, rather than lines for 62 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:01,800 the next party. Although, I'm sure those were 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,700 there, too. It's, it's always heartening to 64 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:07,500 see the people are making productive move. 65 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:10,000 Into a theorem ecosystems growth. 66 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:14,400 I'm very happy actually that Defcon turned out, very 67 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,899 educational. I was not expecting it to be 68 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:19,800 like this very much like Builder. 69 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,900 Fuck you of them very much. Like a technical talks, 70 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,500 definitely impressed by all the high level and like, high 71 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:33,000 educational Talks by like, whether that's like such a so 72 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,700 many talks on like, ZK e VM and Mev, which I really impress. 73 00:04:38,700 --> 00:04:42,100 Like, how did they acknowledge you grow up since like def con I 74 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,800 know Sokka when we've been like the topics liar, like a little 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,800 bit less Technical and now is that that is like the halbach 76 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,400 train and the research and all that progress, so much. 77 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,700 So it's very, very cool to see, like, how the talks are being 78 00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:02,700 like different and how much more Technical and even like almost 79 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:07,700 Academia academic, like dogs, we're on the schedule as well. 80 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:10,600 And it's very cool that those stilts were even full. 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,600 And People enjoy these not even not only the like a low-level or 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:21,800 like the social talks as well. Yeah, I've been having a great 83 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,000 time. There's so many talks that I 84 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 haven't made it to because I keep running into people in the 85 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,300 halls and and people haven't mentioned three plus years and 86 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:32,600 talking to them and catching up, which I kind of view is the 87 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,800 right way to do a conference almost because the talks 88 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,600 recorded the people aren't. And so, you know, it's been 89 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,200 great. I've also been super impressed 90 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,000 with how well organized everything is how there's a 91 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,800 great mix of technical talks and like breakout spaces and 92 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,500 workshops and panels and it's It is opportunities to like go 93 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:52,700 somewhere and decompress about those opportunities to find 94 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:54,200 somewhere quiet chat with people. 95 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:59,400 It's been really good. So this is actually my first 96 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,400 Devcon in the thing that's really sticking out to me. 97 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,900 The most is that if you called Devcon a Tech conference, you're 98 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:07,900 kind of missing it. And there's a reason why we 99 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:10,400 Devcon goes to all of these weird cities rather than just 100 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,500 like San Francisco or New York, we're in, we're in Bogota 101 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,700 Colombia, and I think that's a part, because the theorem is one 102 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:19,500 part technology but also one part culture. 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,800 And so we have to find these different communities. 104 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,600 All around the world that you wouldn't otherwise, you know, 105 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,500 find in the, the typical conference city, like New York 106 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:29,800 and San Francisco. Going because the theorem is a 107 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,600 social technology and so Defcon is a social conference and so 108 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,100 it's just not about the tech, it's all about, just the ways 109 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:38,500 that etherium and local, cultures all around the world 110 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:41,400 integrate with each other and just been having a fantastic 111 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,200 time. Connecting with everyone that 112 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,800 hasn't been able to connect in the last few years. 113 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,800 Because Defcon hasn't happened since 2019 and so just seeing 114 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,200 the soul and the spirit kind of emerge out of this conference 115 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,200 has been just a fantastic thing to observe. 116 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,100 I would definitely second that I know the hearing Foundation has 117 00:06:57,100 --> 00:07:01,400 come under a lot of flak for the choice of location. 118 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:07,100 I know a couple of people who deliberately didn't come because 119 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:09,200 they had security concerns and so on. 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,800 But I think it's been a fantastic choice of location. 121 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,100 In terms of accessibility, I mean, in South America, right. 122 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:22,000 So, basically, everything is far away from where most people are 123 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:27,900 in South America, but Bogota is By quite a stretch, one of the 124 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:32,200 more accessible cities. The vibe is fantastic. 125 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,700 So I think the, the Latin American Community has been 126 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:39,700 strong from the get-go and usually it's them making the 13 127 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:43,100 now flights except for Nick's, always on 13 our flights. 128 00:07:43,100 --> 00:07:48,600 But everyone else is sometimes you know, gets to do this on 129 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,700 their home turf and this is never the case for South 130 00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:54,900 American. So I think this has been A 131 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:57,600 fantastic signal. I am Loki, obsessed with the 132 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,600 venue. I think this is the best venue 133 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:00,800 yet. I loved the venue. 134 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,400 Basically, you see how many people there are, but it's 135 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,900 still, it's, it doesn't feel crowded because I think the way 136 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:12,400 they've done this architectural e with like this really high 137 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,900 open space in the middle. Absolutely. 138 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:18,100 Fantastic. And I love the bathrooms. 139 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:21,500 I know that this is a really weird thing to compliment, but I 140 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:26,800 absolutely love the bathrooms. On. 141 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,000 This is the first time that any epicenter listener delivered 142 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,000 bathroom related comments in the four hundred some-odd episode 143 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,700 history of epicenter. So I can lend a little bit of 144 00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:41,500 context to this because there's a question about, you know what, 145 00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:46,700 the theorem ecosystem is what what it, you know, what it 146 00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:50,500 couldn't be, could be should be coming off of. 147 00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:52,300 Also coming off of the last Devcon. 148 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:57,400 Do these funny things about it. Where it's it's known and almost 149 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,400 revered for the things that go wrong, you know, that's and this 150 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,600 time we tried to go ideology was probably up there, tied at a 151 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,700 number one with making sure that things just work. 152 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:16,400 So, you know, was there, was there catering was it accessible 153 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,500 from the airport, was it accessible to a downtown into a 154 00:09:19,508 --> 00:09:21,200 city? Could people get around the city 155 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,800 fairly easily but skipping over the venue things for the Part. 156 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:31,200 The, the ecosystem is big etherium as David Austin says, 157 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,400 is it people all the way down and but who are those people. 158 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,900 So we have this very large community and say, Berlin or in 159 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:43,500 Denver is an Francisco or New York, and inborn decided, and 160 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,200 what will make it all relatively Unstoppable, unkillable and 161 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,800 whatever else is these communities continuing to grow 162 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,000 in popularity. Pop up and create new super 163 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,900 cells kind of everywhere. And if we only hit where they 164 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:05,200 have already existed, then we failed to kind of foster that 165 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,100 growth. Now, there's a line, right? 166 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:09,900 Where in Bogota and that means that there are a lot of people 167 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:12,300 from Venezuela. They can come over be at the 168 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:14,400 conference, in a way that they would have never been able to 169 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,300 experience elsewhere, but of course, we can't cross that line 170 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:21,400 and go over there because of political concern, right? 171 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,500 So where can you get where you might want to? 172 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:26,200 Where can you go? You might want to create impact 173 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,200 and further growth because regionally it's in an area that 174 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,600 might be a great fit. You know, we've seen there's 175 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,600 eith Medellin next week in Panama the week after and kito's 176 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,900 last week and so you can maybe start to create a supercell in 177 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:42,400 the northern half of South America, just like there is one 178 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:48,400 in in 8 hours south by playing in Buenos Aires and six hours 179 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,600 North by playing in New York City. 180 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,700 And and once you kind of have people building Being from 181 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:58,300 everywhere and for every where it really starts to become a the 182 00:10:58,308 --> 00:11:00,000 worldwide community that we wanted to be. 183 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:02,500 So I hope that that's something that comes from this. 184 00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:05,200 There's also and then I'll be quiet, but there's something to 185 00:11:05,208 --> 00:11:08,300 be said for bringing all of these people that might have had 186 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:10,500 misconceptions and preconceptions about South 187 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,500 America and seeing how that's changed in a four-day span. 188 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,800 You referenced people who I'm coming with security, or 189 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,900 something, you know, or not going at all. 190 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,100 And I've been around people who in the first day said, I'm not, 191 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:24,000 okay? Leaving this hotel. 192 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:27,400 But by day to there at the street market and buy day for, 193 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,400 they kind of like get to know the neighborhood and it's it's 194 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,900 quite nice and then I think somebody said to me I wouldn't 195 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:35,400 have ever come to this region, let alone the city. 196 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,800 If the event didn't bring me here and I'm used to it being in 197 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,700 places that I know. So I hope that's something that 198 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:43,600 we can learn from. Actually, what you just said, I 199 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,200 feel like that's why conferences that are being even organizer 200 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,700 hosted. Like, I feel like that like the 201 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,500 holy theorem Community is like a full of digital Nomads that 202 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:58,500 basically just travel from a conference to conference. 203 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:02,500 And it just allows us to explore the world and opens up 204 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:06,700 possibilities and options to like, where to travel or like 205 00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,800 visit the new places get to know new cultures. 206 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,300 And I love the Vibrance of the Latin American Community, 207 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,900 especially as they've been like, getting ready for this for like 208 00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:20,100 three years. Three years and seeing the 209 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:23,800 progress in the energy of the Latin American community and 210 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,400 like the Spanish people at Defcon. 211 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,600 It's very interesting and especially like the people that 212 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,500 are around or like translating notes or like, you know, even 213 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:38,000 like talking to your Spanish or like doing bunch of like Spanish 214 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,300 programs. I love that. 215 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,400 Especially Ali is Spanish language in general. 216 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,800 So many people speaking Spanish. So it's kind of cool to see you 217 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:55,200 theorem itself like transforming into like a more of a bilingual, 218 00:12:55,300 --> 00:13:00,900 bilingual trilingual. Yeah, feeling well like a world 219 00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:05,300 where people don't need to know only English in order to 220 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:07,400 navigate through the web through Echo System. 221 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,100 But also the Spanish as well, and I'm very grateful. 222 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:15,600 So for everybody who puts any sort of like work into bringing 223 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,100 this country Latin America and I'm very excited about the 224 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:24,300 growth and the energy that def con and the whole Community is 225 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,800 special like people traveled to Defcon to Bogota from all around 226 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,600 the world and now seeing all these like energies and 227 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:37,200 different cultures at one spot, creating like a huge scenery of 228 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,100 like that connects like the technology that he said. 229 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,000 Time itself. Connects us all together and now 230 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,400 we are making something more like a bigger and like 231 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,600 connecting together and like thinking how to like help the 232 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,000 ecosystem and how to like crawl with even more and how to make 233 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,400 it more decentralized and especially its Latin American 234 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,900 countries have troubles with their own like banking systems 235 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,400 and seeing what can help with that. 236 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:11,100 Is very very useful and very cool and I'm very grateful that 237 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,800 Even if you don't Foundation, whoever else is excited to host 238 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,300 Defcon in Bogota and this is amazing venue. 239 00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,200 And I'm very grateful to be a part of Def con as well. 240 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,900 Yeah you said earlier that Nick always has to travel 13 hours 241 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:29,700 but the sad truth is it's more like 30 and if I have to travel 242 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,400 30 hours to somewhere it's nice that somewhere new and 243 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,800 interesting that I haven't been before where I can experience 244 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,800 new cultures and stuff. At least the time when I'm not 245 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:41,900 at the conference center. And yeah, it's been a really fun 246 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:44,600 location to have it in and I've had a great time. 247 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,400 I think the thing that stuck out the most to me about this 248 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,300 conference so far is that not even the etherium a player has 249 00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:54,200 too much Focus here. We're beneath the a player with 250 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,100 a lot of the content in the talks here that's layer 2's. 251 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:02,100 There's post-merge etherium EIP 4844, dang sharding, staking 252 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:05,400 infrastructure like and if he's in defy don't really have too 253 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,700 much of an exposure here and I think that's kind of emblematic 254 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,100 of where we are in the etherium world. 255 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:15,400 And what Defcon really is to etherium is it's this very deep 256 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,500 in the stack conference and I haven't been to any other Dove 257 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,300 counts before. But you know, I've heard stories 258 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,000 like I've listened to the other epicenter post Devcon episodes 259 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,400 just to get the recap. And it seems to be that this 260 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,800 Devcon also seems to be emblematic of where etherium is 261 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:36,100 a large where early defcons were small and chaotic and you know a 262 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:39,100 little bit of needed some polishing and so was a theorem 263 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:42,400 in those early days and now we're at this Devcon where the 264 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,200 city was well there were some concerns about Sure. 265 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,600 I don't really think anything anything is actually happened 266 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:50,500 and I think if you just put on your common sense hat, you 267 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:53,000 actually don't really have feel exposure to any danger in the 268 00:15:53,008 --> 00:15:56,300 city. And then it's been the perfect 269 00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:59,800 intersection of the culture of Columbia the culture of Bogota, 270 00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:04,900 but also the very polished and well-crafted Conference Center 271 00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:08,700 and organized event. And so vitalik said that 272 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,700 post-merge aetherium is like 50 to 60 percent done. 273 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,100 But also that we're good at shipping. 274 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,800 Now, we're good at Coordinating the developers of coordinated 275 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,900 and it seems to be that that is also expressed in Defcon as 276 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:25,800 well. Whoo-hoo, yeah, let's dig into 277 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,400 the content. What has what have you have you? 278 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:34,400 I mean, I assume most of you haven't gone to that many talks 279 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,900 because there's tons of people here and basically you just kind 280 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:41,500 of note, which talks you want to catch up with later on YouTube 281 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,100 so what which kind of talks would that be for you? 282 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:50,900 So for any listeners that have or haven't read some of these 283 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:52,800 published books on the history of ethereum. 284 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,000 What's interesting about them is they tend to mark their 285 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,100 timelines by going Devcon to Def con. 286 00:16:58,500 --> 00:17:02,900 So, you know, it was Devcon to the DDOS attack is underway, you 287 00:17:02,908 --> 00:17:05,700 know, all the crazy things that kind of happen from one to 288 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,500 another. We're in Prague, it's def con 289 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,500 for all of the core developers, call an emergency meeting on 290 00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:12,700 state rent where they come to believe that, you know, 291 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:16,599 statelessness is no longer or the state bloat could become 292 00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,800 Huge issue in time and what should we do about it? 293 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:21,500 And there are things that came up here to that are quite 294 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,200 interesting. You've got Carl, did his 295 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,400 presentation on something that I hadn't heard of previously which 296 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,600 was this whole random the ceremony that they're working on 297 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,700 while we were here, one of the major organizations behind a 298 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:42,900 layer 2 solution obtained, a major client team. 299 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:47,400 So that was kind of interesting and I guess it's one of those 300 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,100 things where I saw tweet yesterday and it might have been 301 00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:51,400 yours. It might not have it's a 302 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:53,500 Walking. The Halls of Def con is like 303 00:17:53,500 --> 00:18:00,600 being in crypto Twitter and it's there you know SEC is great at 304 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,600 Denver is great. They're all the events that 305 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,200 Community organizes that are thousands of people are cool, 306 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,200 but it's interesting. How it's this event has some 307 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,100 gravity around it and it's fun to see. 308 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:22,200 I feel like this stuff come is way more like proof of stake has 309 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,800 been a huge thing especially as marriage happen like a month 310 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,500 ago. So now seeing like all these 311 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:31,300 like post-merge talks, and like the technical talks like how a 312 00:18:31,308 --> 00:18:34,800 theorem can work in. Like both smooch word are like 313 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,500 how we theorem can around even on like proof of stake. 314 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,300 And what kind of dabs we can like build and proof of stake 315 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,000 and even like improvements unlike in my TVM ecosystems. 316 00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:48,300 More like so the T of improvements or like a bunch of, 317 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,800 like, ZK knowledge. That's like a whole new world 318 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,900 that emerged to recently. I feel like the whole, like, ZK, 319 00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:00,700 ZK in the layer, 2 switch has been like blowing off as well. 320 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:04,900 Pretty much and also just the fact of like how we are 321 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:09,500 connecting that with Hall, like the cultural Vibe as well as 322 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:11,800 downstairs. And like the bottom floor, we 323 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,200 have the community helps with It's kind of cool to see like a 324 00:19:15,208 --> 00:19:19,100 different communities as well, taking apart and bringing like 325 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:22,900 different vibe to, like the whole like developer nerdy, kind 326 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:27,400 of Builder issue pipe. It's very cool to see all that 327 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,500 emerging. And like sorta, like even like, 328 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:36,100 you know, putting like puzzling together and creating this like 329 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:42,800 whole new exhaust system. Yeah, I think, you know, 330 00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,200 Probably the talk. I've seen that, I liked the 331 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,300 most, which is, I guess easy, because only saw one, but it is 332 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,000 an excellent talk. Is your it walls, talk about 333 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,300 social coordination around slashing, censoring validators. 334 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,700 And I think that sort of thing is going to be a really 335 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:02,600 interesting conversation to have because, you know, we decide our 336 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,200 social norms and the best time to decide the social norms is 337 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,600 before the disaster happens, not while it's happening. 338 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,000 You know, the reason the Dow was contentious is because we hadn't 339 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,300 had that conversation before hand of So what will we do if 340 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:18,000 something like this happened? And so I think it's amazing that 341 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,100 people are bringing up topics like this at Devcon so that we 342 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:22,500 can really get that conversation. 343 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:26,100 Kick-started what I'm looking forward to watching afterwards, 344 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:30,400 is all of the talks about base layer, evm improvements, and, 345 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,300 you know, components, like ZK snacks and stuff like that. 346 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:35,900 And how we can evolve the base layer to better support them 347 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:40,400 because ethereum ultimately survives by being the best 348 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,500 infrastructure for a variety of applications. 349 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:46,800 Rather than Going to build the applications in and then also 350 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,900 just reading about some of those listening to some of the 351 00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:52,900 projects that are being built on those sort of improvements, you 352 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,500 know. So so dark Forest is near and 353 00:20:55,508 --> 00:20:57,500 dear to my heart. I think it's an amazing game, I 354 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:03,000 love that it's not you know, pei-pei to earn and we'll play 355 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,200 to you know learn or what not. It's just a game that's fun 356 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,700 legitimately good. It happens to be built an 357 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:12,100 entirely decentralized fashion and I love seeing those sort of 358 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:15,100 things evolving like The non-financial cases on top of 359 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:17,600 ethereum and on top of new improvements, we can build to 360 00:21:17,608 --> 00:21:22,000 the VM and so forth. The talk that's now living 361 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,900 rent-free. My brain is definitely Carl 362 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:26,100 flourishes. Talk about bedrock in the Opie 363 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:29,200 stack and Carl floors. First off is a fantastic 364 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000 presenter. He's just exudes like this 365 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,900 vitality and this energy and this optimism and the, haha, 366 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:41,000 optimism and Bedrock is all about this. 367 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,900 What is like simply defined as like the ERC, 20 standard, but 368 00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,500 for layer twos, and so, as a theory, I'm has become more 369 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:51,500 modular The layer two teams are also learning that layer 2 is 370 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:53,400 also need to follow an appearance, forceps, and also 371 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,700 become modular as well. And so the Opie stack and 372 00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:01,400 Bedrock is this infrastructure for plugging in different parts 373 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,200 of what makes a blockchain. So like, what do you want? 374 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,000 You want to optimism fraud proof, or do you want to as EK 375 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,900 prove? Are where do you want your data? 376 00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:09,100 You want to put your data on the theorem? 377 00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:10,400 We want to do one of the validity. 378 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,600 I'm but it's like the skeleton to produce, any layer twos, but 379 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,300 he connected in the way that he presented it. 380 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,200 In the slides that whoever made those slides knows Carl Fogarty. 381 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,900 Rush and a very personal level, because they know how he, like, 382 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,600 presents and talks. And this, this story that he 383 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,800 tells it tells where he talks about the first ideas of 384 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,100 optimism to where we are now and how every single time, like they 385 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:33,200 all come together, they all realize that they don't know, 386 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,600 they don't know shit about what they were talking about six 387 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,400 months ago and actually had to go back to the drawing board 388 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,200 over and over and over again. And this is something that all 389 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,700 layer two teams are doing and also how a theorem is done. 390 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,700 And and so the the agency the evolution of optimism in the 391 00:22:46,708 --> 00:22:49,200 philosophy, I think of it, I think it's really really strong. 392 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:53,300 And especially as 2021 was the year of cross train bridge 393 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:56,900 facts, and what they're really building is a system without 394 00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:00,300 bridges in a single single shared network of many, many 395 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:01,700 chains. And so that has lived rent-free 396 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:05,400 in my brain It's not a comment on this and I'll put that past 397 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,800 back to Federica. But this is one of the things 398 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,600 that I think the etherium ecosystem does best especially 399 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,500 when they're all in one place is they're allowed to throw stones 400 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,200 at one another and at rapid speed. 401 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,000 So, whereas in a lot of other ecosystems, you end up with a 402 00:23:21,008 --> 00:23:24,300 bottleneck as there is somebody that is legitimately smart and 403 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,500 doing legitimately good work. But we all wait to see on what 404 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:29,900 the figure does next in a theorem World. 405 00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:33,000 You'll have you know Carl might disagree with Even might 406 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600 disagree with Proto and that's just optimism. 407 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,800 And then, you know, the whatever the off chain Labs does and now 408 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,000 Prismatic with them, that's just optimistic. 409 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,700 Roll-Ups and then there's the matter Labs team Stark where 410 00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:46,500 folks, whatever fuel is doing. And you've got the three 411 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:50,700 different Z, KV M projects going at it with one another the rapid 412 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:52,500 iteration in constant competition. 413 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,500 Yields the best results in a way that simple competing roadmaps 414 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,400 can't and it's a really cool feature. 415 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,400 Not a bug of Real decentralisation. 416 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,300 Yeah, absolutely. And that's totally also 417 00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:09,900 reflected in the booth space, right? 418 00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:13,800 So, basically, booths often they are just, you know, tables, you 419 00:24:13,808 --> 00:24:17,100 know, it's Swag dealers essentially like, can I get a 420 00:24:17,108 --> 00:24:20,100 t-shirt in size? M, sort of thing, but there were 421 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,300 so many outstanding conversations at the posts. 422 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:27,000 And I maybe I passed to Nick first, because Nick you had 423 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,100 like, you had one of the most popular boots people queued up 424 00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:35,000 for longer than an hour to actually engage with you. 425 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,400 Right. Yeah, it's been, it's been 426 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,200 exciting. For those who don't know, what 427 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,700 we did is we did this integration where you can come 428 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,100 to the booth, we recommend people pre-register because we 429 00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:48,200 know not everyone brings a while. 430 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,400 I watch you prove your DNS name and you get this card that shows 431 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,300 who you are visually, but you can scan it with any phone and 432 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:58,700 get a poet that says I met Nick Dottie that Devcon sex or you 433 00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:01,900 know, whoever whoever you are and then we also put together a 434 00:25:01,908 --> 00:25:05,000 leader board showing who has met the most people at Defcon sex 435 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,000 and it's been Lie beyond our expectations popular. 436 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,100 We got 2,000 cards and we were like, well, we'll use 1040 of 437 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:14,300 Khan, and it will save a thousand for the next event. 438 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:17,800 No, day one, we went through like 11:00 cards day two, we 439 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,300 used almost all the remaining ones and by beginning of day 440 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:24,000 three, we were out and I've been blown away by how it's gone. 441 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,000 But I think speaking more generally I really love the div 442 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,200 Concepts approach to booths which is, you know, it most 443 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,900 conferences being a sponsor, buys you a booth and then the 444 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:36,700 booth is like Chill Zone, Central kind of thing. 445 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,100 You know, whereas here that the two are decoupled and there's 446 00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:43,900 these booths and there's the the other ones upstairs and they are 447 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,300 rotating through the event and it's a mixture of you know, 448 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,800 organizations like ours, you know, public goods of companies 449 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,200 and of like you know Grassroots projects and they're all 450 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,000 bringing people in to talk about their projects. 451 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,200 There's a lot of cross-pollination in some ways 452 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,700 the most valuable conversations we've had it been since we ran 453 00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:04,600 out of cards because then we have more than 20 seconds to 454 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,700 speak to each person before we have to move them. 455 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:09,400 To get the next card out. It's been. 456 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,100 It's been really amazing. Vitalik, tweeted that at 457 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:17,900 Vatican. It's two popes per square mile 458 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:22,100 and that at Defcon sex, it's to Poe apps per square meter. 459 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:24,100 And I think this was just about, right? 460 00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:28,800 So yeah, congrats on this, super cool way of engaging with the 461 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,700 community and getting them to use stuff. 462 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:36,200 What about all of yours? Both experience? 463 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,400 So I know that. I mean, usually, I mean, how did 464 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,500 you select sponsors, right? So basically, it seemed 465 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:50,700 incredibly curated. So you know Dave connects taught 466 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:55,000 us a lot of lessons. And the question when organizing 467 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:58,000 that event was what would it look like if you just called 468 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,400 everybody to town to build with one another for a week, because 469 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:09,900 too often the events are sensory overload and it's harder to be 470 00:27:09,900 --> 00:27:13,100 productive. Also, the wrong groups can 471 00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:16,500 sometimes get featured. So we decided to forgo sponsors 472 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:18,900 all together this year. There was there were two 473 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:21,600 separate tracks, one was impact hubs which is what Nick did a 474 00:27:21,608 --> 00:27:24,600 walk through that in a second and the other was supporters, 475 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,400 weather is a swag Zone and I'll explain why we thought about for 476 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,500 going this all together. But the supporter track was 477 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:32,400 fairly simple. There's no real set of benefits. 478 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,100 You brand the room, you get the VIP stage, you know, after party 479 00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:38,300 for these people. It was more of, we just held a 480 00:27:38,308 --> 00:27:41,400 public goods around. So, people could contribute 481 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:49,900 toward get coins, CLR fun deeth, Columbia, or Was a good coin 482 00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:52,600 around. There was one other but protocol 483 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,800 guilty. Of course this is Trends project 484 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,000 and those funds go directly toward a lot of the core 485 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:04,000 developers, but we also wanted to keep the venue clean. 486 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,200 So the folks that were aligned and that participated have a 487 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,200 smaller space upstairs in which they can give away the swag but 488 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,700 it's not the same as the impact booths. 489 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,900 This way at least, you know, we're, we've all been to Able to 490 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:20,500 kind of, like, pass through without kind of floors and piles 491 00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:22,200 of t-shirts. The impact hubs are. 492 00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:23,600 This is where you specifically go. 493 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200 This is the big area, meet the layer, two teams, meet the 494 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,600 client teams, meet the ecosystem leaders, meet the solidity team, 495 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,700 aetherium dot-org, the people doing the educating, the grants 496 00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:37,100 folks, and it's meant to be an impact space and not just a 497 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:39,400 shell space. I like the idea of a dedicated, 498 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,800 you know, chill space on occasion because we all like to 499 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,700 walk away with bags and bags of things but it shouldn't just be 500 00:28:45,708 --> 00:28:50,800 pay for play and we tried to reflect some of Actually it's 501 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,700 none of mine has a both as well. And this is my first time at a 502 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:57,600 conference where actually I'm better with a company that has a 503 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600 vote and it's been an amazing experience for me as we are in 504 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,700 the impact Hub as well. Which is amazing to like see all 505 00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:12,700 the projects and all the like, yeah like layers whether that's 506 00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:19,700 like, you know, a theorem it's a I'm Carl protocol layers and all 507 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:26,800 these like a companies that are key infrastructure projects that 508 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,100 are supporting the, theorem itself to be on like one floor 509 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:33,900 and where you can, like, you are able to like even a sort of like 510 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:38,000 a collaborate together or like, you know, as there were two 511 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,400 companies that at some point March 21 and had like one booth 512 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,100 together, sort of and it's funny to like see this Emerging, but 513 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:51,000 they also just like gray, tulasi, all the builders, and, 514 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,400 like everybody to be focused on the impact hubs and on the core 515 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,900 infrastructure projects rather than just focus on like a defy 516 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:05,300 or like, you know, order like commercial like projects and 517 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:10,200 it's great to like see that. Mainly those impact help boots 518 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,700 are like those like infrastructure projects. 519 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:17,400 Go to the biggest like Like a light or biggest like, 520 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,300 highlights space, where most of the people are hanging out and 521 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:24,300 it's not only just the grab a swag, but it's usually all these 522 00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:28,700 conversations that we had at the both where we're very impactful 523 00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,000 and was very educational and like people coming to us and 524 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,100 asking us or like how to run the like murder Minds client and 525 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,200 like all these kind of technical questions. 526 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,900 Well, which is very great that we are able to support the gun 527 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,000 as well on behalf of another mind. 528 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,900 And Other projects. Actually, I haven't had much 529 00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:52,200 time in the booth so I didn't have much of a booth experience. 530 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,800 If I could just interject one more thing going back to the 531 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,500 whole benefits of being in Colombia and events in different 532 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:03,500 locations day. One morning of day one, we had a 533 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:06,800 couple of the security staff the venue approach us and say the 534 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,400 queue in front of your booth is too long. 535 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,000 It's a fire hazard and you know, it's gets in the way and we're 536 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,600 like no problem. We'll can we set a limit here? 537 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,100 We'll put a sign out. Will turn people away. 538 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:18,300 They're like, great, thank you morning of day three. 539 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:19,800 They come back. And I'm like, what is it? 540 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,100 And they like, where can we get one of those carbs? 541 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:27,300 And We given showed them how to set up an etherium wallet like 542 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:29,500 grid, just a couple of names for them and we printed the cards 543 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:31,200 off, and now they're walking around the venue with them. 544 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,300 So, you know, local impact that is super sweet. 545 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,200 Let's talk about the future. So obviously this was Defcon 6 546 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,500 and Def con has evolved a lot over the years. 547 00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:47,000 Can you leaked some Alpha about Defcon 7 because I heard 548 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,700 Istanbul is that correct? So interestingly there's always 549 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:55,100 a favorite couple of cities that are shelled. 550 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,600 Hard online, we learned some lessons. 551 00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:02,300 Most of this is fairly public. Maybe this will also be Alpha. 552 00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:06,500 But in the past we've undergone searches where you pick the city 553 00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:11,500 before we picked a venue and that turned out very poorly. 554 00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:17,300 When we then chose another city that again, this has been 555 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,900 referenced in a book but with some incorrect details that I 556 00:32:19,908 --> 00:32:21,300 won't call. Folks out here. 557 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,000 But essentially, you know, then just before announcing this, 558 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,700 when you find out what a lot of people ended up, criticizing of 559 00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,200 the sock, I had to do with distance of time from airport, 560 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,800 to venue, or from venue to City, so, you pivot again, and that's 561 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,800 kind of how we ended up with Prague, but we had two 562 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,100 selections beforehand. So a lot of folks like Istanbul. 563 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:43,600 A lot of people have started talking about Vietnam, I've been 564 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,600 chilled on places in Greece and in Belgrade. 565 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:49,600 Usually the way it works is you've got to look at what you 566 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,300 want to accomplish. Shhhh, whether it's impact work, 567 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:55,300 you know, then there's venue available availability and all 568 00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:59,700 the logistics that go into, you know, can women walk the street 569 00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:03,100 safely? As safely as men can, is the 570 00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:05,800 government friendly and able to help her? 571 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,800 Is it, you know, dictatorial, spacious, something that might 572 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,300 not reflect what we're looking at. 573 00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:12,000 You know, what reflects the values of the etherium 574 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,600 ecosystem, there's just a lot to consider. 575 00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:18,900 So, the truth is TBD, but I think that I really enjoyed the 576 00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:22,300 Shilling, personally, Because it's just great to see. 577 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,300 You got to like, imagine the possibilities of it all. 578 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:30,900 I mean for a lot of people that might listen, you know, to 579 00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:35,200 podcasts like epicenter may also be in the maker Mafia of what a 580 00:33:35,208 --> 00:33:39,100 scientist. And you know there was also this 581 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:42,800 was a thing and a lot of people had to go look at cities like 582 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,400 this in Buenos Aires and then talk about why and what should 583 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,300 the event B? So on and so forth. 584 00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:50,300 And by the way, they put on a great athlete. 585 00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:54,100 Tom last month too. But yeah, I think it would start 586 00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:56,500 to shape up fairly quickly but it's not there yet. 587 00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:59,600 So I don't have any spoilers for you but a lot of people here, 588 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,300 you know, you hear that ringing from the Vietnam folks and from 589 00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:07,500 the itu the University Club out of Istanbul as well. 590 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:11,400 They make a lot of good noise. I hope it's yeah Defcon is for 591 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,300 historical purposes, tended to rotate Eastward but past isn't 592 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:18,800 necessarily present also, you've got the hold of connecting in 593 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,000 the mix. It will see what happens. 594 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,600 Nick one, one, one day we will all come to New Zealand, like 595 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,000 just just as here and Hassocks. Oh, what, in terms of size? 596 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,600 So, I mean, the these events they've kind of reflecting the 597 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,300 community, they've grown. And I mean, obviously, demand 598 00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:46,800 has been much larger than actual space to accommodate at Indies. 599 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,300 Where do you think we're headed? I would actually pass. 600 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:53,199 This question along to David knows the community better than 601 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:55,500 most I would pass it along to Nick who interacts with a lot of 602 00:34:55,507 --> 00:34:58,100 dap users and as well you've been a community person for a 603 00:34:58,100 --> 00:35:00,800 long time. One of the first things that I 604 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,200 said was as an event grows larger and larger and larger, it 605 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,300 makes it a little bit more difficult to maintain its soul 606 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,700 and so I'm on a little bit of a listening tour. 607 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,800 The deaf connect was an experiment but that form factor 608 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,000 could potentially grow to any size. 609 00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,900 Because if you had a 50,000 person gathering in a People 610 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:24,600 could very easily segment to one side of the street for newer 611 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,800 users to another fork or research to another for, you 612 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,200 know, Mev things. And another for defy Focus, 613 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,600 everybody gets a stage, everybody gets to talk of 614 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,600 entually defcons, very research conference. 615 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,700 You in the they said, on the main stage, in the sense that 616 00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,200 you might have a fifteen twenty percent approval rate for talks, 617 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,400 you're bound to annoy some people, but then you're bound to 618 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,100 have some, you know, side events around the city to make up for 619 00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:48,100 it. But not, everybody can get to 620 00:35:48,107 --> 00:35:51,600 those things. So my question is, What would 621 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,100 you guys like to see in a future Devcon? 622 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,800 Should there be should be, you know, multiple events should the 623 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,500 community owns? Some could it just keep growing 624 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,900 to be you know, whatever venue size will hold 10,000 or 20,000 625 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,300 because we deserve our Olympic opening opening ceremony or our 626 00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:10,000 Super Bowl or World Cup final and it doesn't have to be 627 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,400 distributed or would you like to see a distributed so on and so 628 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,100 forth, curious about your thoughts. 629 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,900 I think one of the reasons why this particular Defcon is so 630 00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:23,000 magical is a little bit about the timing recently post-merge 631 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,100 etherium. And so now we all feel like 632 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:28,200 we're turning a page for etherium and so now we all kind 633 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,200 of need to look around is like hey what's what do we focus on 634 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,700 next? What's the new thing to focus 635 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:33,800 on? So this F Khan is cool because 636 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,500 just we just happened to go post-merge six weeks ago or 637 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:39,900 however long it was the other Serendipity here is that we're 638 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,100 at the bottom of a bear market and so you don't really see any 639 00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:46,900 of you. Hopefully the bottom And that 640 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,400 means that the right people are here because you don't get any 641 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,100 of the fluff that you get at the top. 642 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,300 I would hate to see Devcon the first Devcon after three years 643 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,500 of covid to be tainted by a bunch of people that are 644 00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,400 tourists, that aren't here for the right reasons and are 645 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,300 directing the conversation ways that are unhelpful. 646 00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:04,000 And so, this Defcon is magical because of that. 647 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,700 And so, for future defcons, when it comes to size, you know, 648 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,200 can't really predict what the markets will do. 649 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,900 But I think all defcons that are in Bear markets. 650 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:14,900 So probably going to be more vibrant than the ones that are 651 00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:16,500 in Bull markets in. Trustingly enough. 652 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,300 However, the whole idea about etherium is to scale out to the 653 00:37:20,308 --> 00:37:23,500 whole entire world, but the way the etherium does this is 654 00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:26,200 through modularity. And so as a theorem gets bigger 655 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,100 and as Devcon gets bigger, I think we do have to lean into a 656 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:33,300 modular design structure of for the conference with there are 657 00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:36,700 going to the theorem is going to produce ecosystems that people 658 00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:38,700 are going to care about one thing and not care about another 659 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:40,700 thing. And so there are people like, 660 00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:43,400 Phil Diane, who, he's just going to only talk about Mev. 661 00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:47,100 And eventually, Mev is going to be Entire industry. 662 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,600 And that is also going to be the same for layer 2's, because 663 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,800 every layer 2 is also going to have his own network of chains 664 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,400 on top of it. And that's going to produce 665 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,100 entire Industries and I feel like I can say this on behalf of 666 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:01,100 the entire theorem ecosystem, but we feel like we're on the 667 00:38:01,100 --> 00:38:03,700 cusp of so many Technologies, really hitting their maturity 668 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:07,300 and that is going to produce an industry for every single 669 00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,300 cohort, every single sector of aetherium. 670 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,300 And so I think the question is like not how do we not have a 671 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:15,600 monolithic Devcon where we scale up? 672 00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:18,500 Out at to 20,000 people and we lose its soul. 673 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:20,800 But how do we have compartmentalize defcons? 674 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,800 Where they're all like, they're all the same time. 675 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,400 We're all in the same city but they're more modular and 676 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,500 specialize in different areas. And so we have like the Mev the 677 00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:34,700 layer to the proof of stake and we get to be more precise about 678 00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:37,200 every single part. But we also get to have the 679 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,200 large large conference that aetherium deserves. 680 00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:46,900 Well, we may even see feel that I am house its own death 681 00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:52,500 concern. But no, I mean on behalf of 682 00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,000 return, magicians. We hosted the event at the 683 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,500 Kinect, which was very cool. And I feel like that was great. 684 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:02,500 As there was like, one Central way where everybody could 685 00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,200 connect which was the co-working space and then it was like 686 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,100 scattered all around the city. But I feel like even hearing 687 00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,900 from people, I feel like they Like, oh, but we are like 688 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,800 confused, but also, it was great on another side. 689 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,500 As there was many venues and many different communities as 690 00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:21,800 for me. They've connected felt like 691 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,700 everybody like every single Community has its own like a hop 692 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,100 in a sir, you know, like a part of the city tell where all the 693 00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:35,400 Volga different communities like Bible together and sort of like 694 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,100 connect together and then like, you know, you can like go to 695 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:40,500 like one part of the city and have like a public goods. 696 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:42,800 Then will you can go. Like another part of the city 697 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,000 and have like let's say the Mev tells then go to another city, 698 00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:49,000 have like the modular Block Chain, kind of conference and 699 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,100 like even like you've a space like different blockchain 700 00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:55,600 communities and then you can go to like another part and then 701 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,100 you can have like the car development and then like 702 00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:02,000 everybody connects in the center, the her heart of the 703 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,900 center at the co-working space but for def cons, I mean, it was 704 00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:10,900 great experience experiment with deaf Connick. 705 00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:14,900 That way by the how we are going to scale, the def con itself. 706 00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:19,500 I'm honestly, I am, I don't know, but I enjoyed that Defcon 707 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:23,500 itself is like a developer for Q's conference and that it's 708 00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:28,200 very neat in a sense that we are trying to like focus on like 709 00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:32,500 impact. Like how like which country we 710 00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:37,900 should bring Defcon 2 where we can like teach people more about 711 00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:41,300 def con or like teach people more about like what trains? 712 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,300 And like about a serum and how it serum can have a real impact 713 00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:50,500 on like the country itself or like the humanity even in the 714 00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:53,500 country itself. And I would personally even love 715 00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:57,000 to see def Con in my country is like, I don't know, like Africa 716 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,200 and like a middle of Africa, why not? 717 00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:03,700 Especially I attended the Estrella call at all about 718 00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:09,700 public goods and there were some people don't remember the name 719 00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,700 of the speaker. He was saying that they are 720 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,500 basically bringing blockchain to Farmers and helping like farmers 721 00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:22,000 and studying about the insurance for Farmers itself through defy 722 00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:26,600 as their Banks. Don't allow them like, you know, 723 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,900 issue like any insurance on their like a farming yields or 724 00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:34,700 like the farmers itself. Like the farmer workers. 725 00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:39,100 No black Farmers like in defy ecosystem and I'm very excited 726 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:41,300 to see like how the fun will scale in that way. 727 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,400 Way, especially significant are bringing together like very 728 00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:49,700 unique community and very unique Vibe and certain like the 729 00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:53,300 centralizing itself. But in a sense it's still being 730 00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:56,300 like centralized. It is one location and I really 731 00:41:56,300 --> 00:42:00,400 love the idea like how we are all decentralized. 732 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,300 Like everybody like working with your room is basically all 733 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:07,600 around the world but then we like once a year we connect in 734 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:13,400 like one location which is the Defcon until Yeah, absolutely. 735 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,700 And I would second that basically, it's been a rotation 736 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:19,600 of Europe Asia and the Americas Africa. 737 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,600 Has been very notably left out as has Oceania. 738 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,800 But I mean basically you guys you're smart, right? 739 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,700 So it's like small n fo way but but I mean yeah I think it's 740 00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:32,200 time to actually have a Defcon somewhere in Africa. 741 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:37,500 Yeah, Nick find a comment because we kind of have to wrap 742 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:42,500 up I guess I just say First of all, I find hilarious. 743 00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:45,100 The idea that a prerequisite for to have gone would be like a 50% 744 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:47,500 drop in the the price. So we're just be waiting 745 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:49,600 waiting, you know? And but I think it's worth 746 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,000 saying like also Devcon is a Prestige event and as long as 747 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,400 there's one Devcon there's going to be a lot of people who want 748 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,300 to come because they want to be at the Devcon. 749 00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,900 And if we do modularize, then we provide evidence for everybody 750 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,800 and everybody can come to the one that suits their not just to 751 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,800 the Devcon because they wanted to say they were active con. 752 00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:14,100 Yeah, I hear that. I do actually like the the 753 00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:17,500 crypto Twitter analogy kind of roaming the halls of Def con 754 00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:21,400 like these like being on life crypto Twitter and I think maybe 755 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,600 we can have it. Maybe maybe like in the in the 756 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,500 mid term future, this will be true, but I think for now we can 757 00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:32,100 still have like these monolithic events with like satellite 758 00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:37,000 events around it. And I hope we see a another 759 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:43,200 fantastic addition next year, Let's keep Defcon def con for 760 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,700 now. Thank you guys for 761 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:47,900 participating. It's been a real pleasure. 762 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:53,800 Thank you for joining us on this week's episode. 763 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:55,700 We release new episodes every week. 764 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,000 You can find And subscribe to the show on iTunes Spotify, 765 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,100 YouTube SoundCloud or wherever you listen to podcast. 766 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:05,300 And if you have a Google home or Alexa device, you can tell it to 767 00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:08,300 listen to the latest episode of the epicenter podcast, go to 768 00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,300 epicenter Dottie. /, subscribe for a full list of places where 769 00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:14,000 you can watch and listen, while you're there, be sure to sign up 770 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,800 for the newsletter so you get new episodes in your inbox as 771 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,300 they're released. 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