1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,800 This is epicenter episode 257 with guests. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:21,400 Kevin iwaki. This episode of epicenter is 3 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,100 brought to you by Dutch hex, the fair and secure decentralized 4 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:28,800 exchange platform bike gnosis to learn how you can build apps, 5 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,900 which leverage, Dutch axes, liquidity tool, visit epicenter, 6 00:00:31,900 --> 00:00:38,400 .t V, /, Dutch x and by Microsoft Azure configure and 7 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,500 deploy. A Consortium Network and just a 8 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:42,700 few clicks with pre-built configuration and 9 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:45,800 enterprise-grade infrastructure, spends less time on blockchain, 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,400 scaffolding and more time, building your application. 11 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:52,100 Learn more at aka.ms/offweb eccentric. 12 00:00:56,900 --> 00:00:59,200 Hi, welcome to epicenter the show which talks about the 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,100 Technologies projects and starts driving decentralisation and the 14 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:04,900 global blockchain Revolution. My name is Sebastian with you 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:11,500 and my name is Philip Rica ants. And today on the show, we have 16 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:16,400 Kevin a walkie Kevin's. The founder of real interesting 17 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,000 project called get coin. That is creating a two-sided 18 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:27,100 Market between project funders and so basically people who work 19 00:01:27,100 --> 00:01:32,800 on open source projects and contributors who who pick up 20 00:01:32,808 --> 00:01:36,800 Bounty requests and it's real interesting project where there 21 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,900 is this sort of its All incentive mechanisms are aligned 22 00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:44,800 between, you know, people who need bounties picked up for 23 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,600 their open source projects and people who are willing to come 24 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,200 up and make a bit of money while they're at it. 25 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,800 So, what did you think of the interview for Lika? 26 00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:58,000 I thought it actually integrates the project actually integrates 27 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,600 into the existing ecosystem really nicely. 28 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,300 It's one of the buildings, blocks that that was missing. 29 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,600 I really enjoyed the interview. Yeah, well I thought was 30 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,300 fascinating to is that like they built this and bootstrapped it 31 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,400 and haven't done an IC o----? I mean it's just like it's a 32 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,200 very simple platform. In fact, I mean we'll get into 33 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,400 this in turn the show but the like they haven't yet figured 34 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,200 out their business model but there's you know, this guy 35 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,800 boostrap this this project and now a bunch of projects are 36 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,600 using it for bounties. So yeah. 37 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,200 It's quite interesting. Yeah. 38 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,300 That's actually quite Quite a good thing. 39 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:39,600 And I mean, I think this has been lost a little bit in the in 40 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,100 the blockchain word building something first making sure who 41 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:46,700 acts and then selling it later so it was very refreshing. 42 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:50,400 Yeah, it does, it does work because there's like quite a few 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,700 projects that build on and in fact, so kenosis did use it. 44 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:57,700 I think you mentioned during a hackathon, can you talk about 45 00:02:57,700 --> 00:02:58,600 that? Yeah. 46 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,700 So basically, there was East Berlin that we had here in been 47 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:07,600 in a couple of weeks ago and we actually Used Bitcoin to 48 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,200 actually roll out the bounties to the developers who partook in 49 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,300 the hackathon, and at what work nicely. 50 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:17,900 So yeah, kudos to get kind great. 51 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,800 Yeah, so we'll get to the interview in just a second 52 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,500 first. I just wanted to mention that we 53 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:27,600 will be at web three Summit in Berlin, that is next week. 54 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,700 It is Monday Tuesday and Wednesday, I believe and we're 55 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,500 also going to be at Defcon 3 so both Brian. 56 00:03:35,700 --> 00:03:37,700 Ryan and myself. Oh, and Sonny will also be a 57 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:42,000 dick on Defcon three diff gone for things are moving so fast 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:42,700 already. Yeah. 59 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:45,700 So we'll all be at Defcon 4 so you can come say hi to us there 60 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:48,500 and we'll be glad to see you. Yeah, without further delay. 61 00:03:48,500 --> 00:03:52,800 Here's here's Kevin. Noah a walkie of get coin. 62 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:56,800 Hi. So we're here with Kevin iwaki. 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,400 Who is founder of get coin? Kevin, thank you for coming on 64 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,100 the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. 65 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:07,400 So before we get started, what you tell us a bit about your 66 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,300 background, you came from software development. 67 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,800 What got you involved and interested in crypto currencies 68 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,800 and ethereum Yeah. So I have a degree in computer 69 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:27,100 science from University of Delaware in 2006 and I've sort 70 00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:31,600 of always been interested in entrepreneurship and technology 71 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,300 and and how I could how I can beat a path for myself, that was 72 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:40,100 outside of outside of corporate America and not sort of a 73 00:04:40,108 --> 00:04:42,600 traditional career path. And I think that that's always 74 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,900 been driven by my intellectual curiosity and in in the 75 00:04:49,900 --> 00:04:53,600 evolution of the web and futurism and in cypherpunk 76 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,500 ideas. So I spent the first two years 77 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:00,700 of my career in Corporate America and absolutely hated. 78 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:06,500 It found an opportunity to move out to Colorado, where I was the 79 00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:10,100 CTO of an online-dating. Startup of all things for about 80 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:12,500 five years. And that was a great experience 81 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:15,600 that sort of threw me in the deep end of technology and 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,100 Entrepreneurship. I've Around between technology 83 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:24,300 startups for the last 10 or 12 years and was sort of captured 84 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:27,400 in 2011, by the Bitcoin white paper. 85 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:32,000 And the idea of non-state money, the idea that money could be a 86 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,400 native protocol of the internet, but it wasn't until the etherium 87 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,800 whitepaper more around 2014 2015, that I really got into the 88 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,700 idea of programmable money and was really, it was conversation 89 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,200 As with my friend Piper Miriam, who's now a python team leader 90 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,900 at the etherium foundation that really got me into the idea of 91 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:59,000 programmable money and what if we could program our values into 92 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,400 our money and that money those values? 93 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,300 And those smart contracts were immutable what kind of world 94 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:08,600 what kind of better worlds that that could we create and so sort 95 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:14,400 of just sort of really curious about exploring those themes on 96 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,700 today's show and in general and professionally Awesome. 97 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:22,500 I mean I definitely can relate reading the theorem white paper 98 00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:27,000 was also quite eye-opening for me and sort of for us in general 99 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,800 here, on the podcast before we get in to get coin and go more 100 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,800 in-depth here. I'm curious what was the single 101 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400 most single most important lesson you learned while working 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,200 for a dating company was the most single more in most 103 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,600 important question that I learned, you said, you learned a 104 00:06:45,608 --> 00:06:48,600 lot of things but what's your takeaway from Working couple of 105 00:06:48,608 --> 00:06:54,200 years of the dating company. I think liquidity matters. 106 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,500 We we ran an online, dating some company for five years and I 107 00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:04,400 think that we had 90% men on our platform and only 10% women. 108 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,700 It created a real liquidity problem for supply and demand 109 00:07:07,700 --> 00:07:09,300 problem in the double sided Market. 110 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:14,000 That was a was a dating site. I think that's probably the case 111 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,000 for a lot of dating sites. If you just look under the look 112 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,100 Under the hood. Yeah. 113 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:21,100 Yeah. Under the hood. 114 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,900 Cool. And so you said your transition 115 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,600 out of that and into into blockchain. 116 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:33,300 So as a developer and working on open source projects what did 117 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:35,700 you see as some of the fundamental issues there and 118 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:38,500 some of the fundamental problems in open source development. 119 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,200 Yeah so been an entrepreneur and software engineer for pretty 120 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,600 much since I since I joined that textures company in 2008. 121 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,800 So about Ten years now. And the one thing I noticed was 122 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,000 that everything that I was doing and all of my cohorts we're 123 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,600 doing is built off of Open Source, web servers and 124 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,700 database, servers and Technology. 125 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:04,200 But there's no the value that's created by open source. 126 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,800 Technology is in the billions of dollars, but the value that's 127 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,300 captured by it is, is much, much less than that. 128 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:15,700 And it just seems like a real incentive problem that you can 129 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:18,000 create billions of dollars of economic output. 130 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,000 But with with open source software, but you can't capture 131 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,200 any of that. So I am interested in exploring 132 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,900 how to solve that Gap and I think that programmable money 133 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:31,400 might be a useful tool in solving that problem Cliff. 134 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:33,600 So what then you started get coin. 135 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:37,900 Can you explain to us what Bitcoin is and how it dresses 136 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:40,799 that problem? Yeah, sure happily. 137 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:45,700 So get coin is not a token. We have not decided our business 138 00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:48,000 model yet and there's no Ico or no token. 139 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,700 Get coin is a place where you can get coins if you're a 140 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:54,200 software engineer. So it's a double sided Market 141 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,000 where people who want to fund development specifically, 142 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,000 open-source software development can put an ear, see 20, which is 143 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,100 the ethereum token. Standard bounty on any GitHub 144 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:07,800 issue, GitHub issues being where people check track change 145 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,100 requests, whether they're bug requests or feature requests on 146 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:15,400 GitHub and that will be paid out when that GitHub issue is closed 147 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,000 to date. We've done about two thousand. 148 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:24,200 Actions between about 200 funders and 600 coders all 149 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,300 across the world. And so our mission is to support 150 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,000 open source, software to grow and sustain open source, 151 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,700 software and bounties is just sort of the first, the first act 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,000 in how we're going to grow and sustain open source software, 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,700 and allow software developers to capture some of that value that 154 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:44,500 open-source software creates in the world. 155 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,200 Quit quit. Can you describe how the user 156 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,300 experience is both as a funder and as a contributor? 157 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:54,900 Because they differ from each other, right? 158 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,600 Yeah, that's right. So, if you go to get coin .ko, / 159 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,400 new, you will see our funder onboarding experience. 160 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:07,000 And, basically, the way it works, is that if you have a 161 00:10:07,008 --> 00:10:13,500 GitHub issue, you can paste that into the GitHub issue, URL field 162 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,000 on that form. And then, We'll pull in a title, 163 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:20,300 a description of that issue, a bunch of keywords and then you 164 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:24,500 can basically tag that Bounty with some metadata and attached 165 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:28,500 etherium or any ear. See 20 token to that to That 166 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:30,500 Bouncy. And when you click submit, 167 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:34,500 you'll be asked to confirm the submission of that bounty to get 168 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:37,500 coin in the staking of those tokens to that Bounty. 169 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,700 Once the transaction clears, your issue will be posted on the 170 00:10:41,708 --> 00:10:47,000 GitHub issue Explorer, which is the repository of Open work on 171 00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:50,200 on get coin. And it will also be emailed out 172 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,400 to our community of 11,000 software developers who are 173 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,800 looking to contribute to open source software. 174 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,900 So we found that the combination of the tooling with trustless 175 00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:04,600 Bounty posting and then also the the community that's watching 176 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,200 that tooling has been a killer app for funders to instantly add 177 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,000 software developers to their project and as we know in the 178 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,600 blockchain world software, Our developers are pretty important. 179 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,500 Addition to to any project. And, you know, we're happy to be 180 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:26,400 sort of a recruiter for software development projects in that 181 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,200 respect and that's why people have put over 300,000 dollars 182 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,500 worth of bounties on get coin to reach our audience of 11,000 183 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:36,400 software developers. So and then to answer the second 184 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,300 part of your question. If you are a coder on get coin, 185 00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,100 you can go to the get coin issue, Explorer, or just keep an 186 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:47,200 eye on your inbox. And if there is a issue that 187 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,400 matches your skill set and you have the time and gumption to 188 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,200 turn around that issue, you can click a button called start 189 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,700 work, which basically is a signal to the rest of the 190 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:00,300 network that I'm working on this. 191 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:01,900 Please don't work over top of me. 192 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,500 And then typically, because software development is sort of 193 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,700 an abstract thing, there's a little bit of back and forth 194 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:12,900 that happens with the funder or the repo maintainer on the 195 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:16,400 GitHub issue. And we think that at GitHub is 196 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,600 an excellent collaboration layer for open-source software. 197 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,300 We are not in the business of Reinventing the wheel. 198 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:25,000 We're just adding in incentivization layer on top of 199 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,400 github's collaboration layer and so we put a lot of the 200 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,400 collaboration type stuff over on the GitHub thread because it's 201 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,600 working really well, and that's where open source software is 202 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,600 hosted. You'll probably go back and 203 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,100 forth with the funder a couple of times about what they meant 204 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:41,900 about specific parts of the scope. 205 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:45,600 You will turn around a pull request, which is a Request for 206 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,500 that piece of software. And then when you have when 207 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:51,900 you're ready to attest, that you have finished with the work, you 208 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:55,000 will press a button called submit work, which is basically 209 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:59,100 a way of saying here is my my my aetherium address. 210 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:00,900 Please pay me for the work that I've done. 211 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,800 And then once the funder is happy with that, work, they will 212 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,600 submit the payment to you and that's sort of the life cycle of 213 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,400 a get coin Bounty. What we found is that this is a 214 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,800 low-risk way for coders and people who would hire them. 215 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,800 Them to work together. And often times people take 216 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,300 their relationship off, get coin after they found someone who can 217 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:24,700 provide value to to their project and vice versa. 218 00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:29,100 So are very happy to have facilitated over a dozen 219 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:31,800 full-time, people working in the space that otherwise would not 220 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,300 have built those relationships. So it's a that's the one metric 221 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,500 that I'm most proud of is lives changed people who are now 222 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,900 working professionally in the Block Chain space and otherwise 223 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:44,800 wouldn't be and yeah that's the user that's you. 224 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:47,000 Their experience and get Cohen on both sides of the market. 225 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,600 It just takes it is if I just sort of recap here as a as a 226 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:59,100 project maintainer, let's say maintain open source project and 227 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,200 there are those issues coming in. 228 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,000 So I could be creating these issues these issues myself. 229 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,600 My team could be submitting these issues. 230 00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:11,600 Users could be submitting these issues as well. 231 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:15,400 They show up in GitHub, this is typically, what people are used 232 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,300 to. When using GitHub, is the You 233 00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:21,900 see issues tool there. And then usually, there's 234 00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,200 there's some sort of curation of issues. 235 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,100 So, issues might get tagged as like a bug, a feature, like a 236 00:14:30,108 --> 00:14:33,000 critical security patch or something of that nature. 237 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:38,700 Then as the software maintainer as a project maintainer, or I 238 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:45,900 guess the funder, I put that issue up on on, get coin that 239 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:52,700 creates sort of The the call to the market to call upon 240 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:57,500 developers to address this issue on the other side of the market 241 00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:05,000 developers or contributors can pick up these issues, I guess 242 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:10,000 when they're picked up there. Sort of no longer available to 243 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:16,500 the market while that person is working on them and when they're 244 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:17,700 so you. And there might be some 245 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:20,700 back-and-forth that makes sense. Then when the issue has been 246 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:26,900 resolved, the pull request gets sent on GitHub and the project 247 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:31,400 maintainer. Then when he approves it, the 248 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,100 get coin automatically makes the payment which I forgot to 249 00:15:35,108 --> 00:15:39,900 mention, which is sort of an escrow, I guess while the issues 250 00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,500 being worked on, is that sort of summarizes correctly. 251 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:45,600 Yeah, that's pretty much the long and short of it. 252 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,500 Yeah. Okay. 253 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,000 Now, so if looking at this, I can see a couple things I want 254 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,900 to address. So the first would be with 255 00:15:53,900 --> 00:16:01,600 regards to just like let me get get get Hub itself, seems pretty 256 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,100 well placed to implement the system. 257 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:09,000 I mean, if GitHub wanted to implement some sort of a bug 258 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,200 Bounty reward system, I mean it would be pretty trivial for them 259 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,600 to implement that, you know, implement it into the issues. 260 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:22,100 Form like a fun project maintainer can put up a bounty 261 00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:24,900 that money gets held in escrow by get by GitHub. 262 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:29,600 And then when the issue gets resolved, you know, the payment 263 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,000 gets made, they could even, you know, handle dispute resolution 264 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,700 this sort of thing. I mean like these types of 265 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:36,000 things exist. You know if you just look at 266 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,000 Fiverr or any type of like gig economy platform, these things 267 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,600 exist. Why do you think this is never 268 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,100 been part of GitHub? You know, business model to 269 00:16:48,108 --> 00:16:50,700 implement this sort of thing. Why do you think they've not 270 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,200 went down that path? It seems like like a pretty easy 271 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,600 thing for them to do. You know, it's funny. 272 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,700 It's apropos that you're asking me this question right now while 273 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,200 I'm in San Francisco. I'm actually from Colorado, but 274 00:17:02,208 --> 00:17:05,000 I'm out in San Francisco because we're sponsoring GitHub Universe 275 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,599 right now. We think that they've built an 276 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,599 excellent collaboration layer and our aim is to be the 277 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,500 incentivization layer that's built on top of that 278 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:18,200 collaboration layer and to your point, this idea has been tried 279 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,000 before. I think that for the first three 280 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,099 months of when I started get coin, every hackathon I went to 281 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,800 A couple of software Engineers or like, why don't we combine 282 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,000 open source and blockchain and, you know, see what happens. 283 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:36,600 But, you know, there's a certain amount of I think of a lead that 284 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,800 get coins built up because of my backgrounds, 10 years of doing 285 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Tech startups and experience with with software engineering, 286 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,400 that that I think has created some momentum for us, in the 287 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,200 Brand's category and also in marketing and you know, we'll 288 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,500 get into it later, but we're backed by consensus, which is 289 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,400 the largest Blockchain accelerator in the world. 290 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,100 So I think we've reached achieved a scale in our user 291 00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:05,500 experience in the liquidity of the pool of software developers 292 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,400 on get coin. That's, that's, that's sort of 293 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,000 approaching a competitive Advantage. 294 00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:16,800 But the thing that I'll say is that there there is a people 295 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,800 have noted this this incentive problem in open source, software 296 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,500 in the past, namely that it's easy to create value. 297 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:25,800 But it's hard to capture value. The fundamental, Friends with 298 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,900 get coin relative to Let's Bounty sources. 299 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:32,600 For example, a web to version of get coin and they've been around 300 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,500 for about 10 years. The reason why get coin has a 301 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,400 fundamental competitive advantages because there's 302 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,400 actually funding available for open source software in 303 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,600 blockchain. The combined market cap of all 304 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,500 these cryptocurrencies is in the hundreds of billions of dollars 305 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:47,400 in. This is even in a bear market 306 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,700 and everyone's chasing too few developers to get attention to 307 00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,400 their project. So there's there's a fundamental 308 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,700 shift in the way. Oi software development is being 309 00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,400 funded associated with blockchain and I think that 310 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:04,000 we're probably the first, the, the first company that's that's 311 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,900 that's figured out how to capitalize on that and create a 312 00:19:06,908 --> 00:19:10,100 liquid market for for software bounties. 313 00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:13,200 And, you know, just to bring it back to the to the GitHub 314 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,800 question, we would absolutely love to partner with them and to 315 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,500 bake our features more into the user interface. 316 00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:23,700 So you know, we'll see what happens with our sponsorship of 317 00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:26,700 GitHub universe. But Looking to exit the 318 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,000 blockchain echo chamber and to bring the goodness of software 319 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,800 development bounties and funding to the broader open-source 320 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,700 community. You know, the Dutch have given 321 00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:39,700 us so much orange. Carrots, Bluetooth, artificial 322 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,800 hearts, even Donuts were invented by Dutch people, but 323 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,600 they also gave us Dutch auctions, which, as it turns out 324 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,900 are great for decentralized. Exchanges Dutch, X is a 325 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,200 decentralized trading protocol for ERC 20 tokens and it's 326 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,900 invented designed and built by kenosis current order book based 327 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:57,400 exchanges. Whether centralized or 328 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,100 decentralized have a couple of issues, Miners and exchanges can 329 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,500 FrontRunner trade when they step in front of a large order to 330 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:06,600 gain an economic Advantage. Not not to mention issues with 331 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,400 securing funds, High listing fees, lack of liquidity and 332 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,300 pricing efficiencies. The Dutch checks. 333 00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:14,400 Exchange platform uses a Dutch auction mechanism to determine 334 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,600 the fair value for a token and participants in a trade are 335 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,400 encouraged to reveal their true willingness to pay, which 336 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,900 eliminates front running as a permissionless on chain 337 00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:24,900 protocol. It's useful for Bots and other 338 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:28,500 smart contracts needing to exchange tokens and Dutch X also 339 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,900 acts as an oracle for dash, requiring a price feed. 340 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,000 So to learn more, check out the documentation at epicenter dot 341 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,900 TV, / THX, Smart contracts are live on a theorem a net. 342 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:41,400 So you can start building today we'd like to thank gnosis and 343 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,900 checks for their support of epicenter will maybe get into 344 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:48,300 this a bit later and to sort of like the the usage of the 345 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,900 platform but it sounds like what you're saying that most of the 346 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:52,400 projects and I guess it doesn't make sense. 347 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,200 The most of the projects that are on the marketplace are 348 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,900 blockchain related projects. Are you seeing any sort of 349 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:05,300 adoption from web to projects other open source? 350 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,500 Facts. No, not really. 351 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:12,000 I think that 95% of the projects that we've, that we've seen on 352 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,300 the platform are blockchain based projects. 353 00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:18,500 And I think that that's a, that's, that's sort of a result 354 00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,900 of where our efforts have been and where we are, have been able 355 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,900 to find funding for for open-source software. 356 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,500 We've gotten grants from the theory and Community Fund in the 357 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,900 ethereum foundation themselves, maker dial, stable fund, all of 358 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:34,600 these projects want to accelerate blockchain 359 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:40,300 development, And help if they're IAM 2.0 and projects based on a 360 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:44,100 theory and go to market faster. And we also want to see that 361 00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:45,600 happen. So it's went been where our 362 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,900 Focus has been and I think that that's healthy for where the the 363 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:52,200 blockchain space it is right now, but eventually, we're going 364 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,700 to shift our Focus to the broader open source market and 365 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,900 our sponsorship of GitHub Universe in San Francisco. 366 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:02,700 This week is just sort of our first litmus test for what 367 00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:05,300 that's going to look like in 2019. 368 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,500 In 2020 quit. So you've already mentioned a 369 00:22:09,508 --> 00:22:13,100 couple of names. It can you go into what projects 370 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:18,000 I've already successfully? Pound successfully posted 371 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,000 bounties on your project. Yeah sure. 372 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,300 Happy to. And the other thing that I'll 373 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:27,000 note is that I think transparency is a really 374 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,700 important value for a blockchain project and as part of that 375 00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:34,400 ethos, we've built to the get coin leaderboard which you can 376 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000 access a get coins. KO / leaderboard and always see 377 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,300 an updated version of the answer. 378 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:42,300 I'm about to give you, but you have to answer your question. 379 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:46,300 We've done a handful of bounties with metal mask, which is the 380 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,600 largest etherium based browser wallet in the world. 381 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:55,100 We have done some bounties with the etherium foundation itself. 382 00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:59,600 Get coin is built with get coin. So anytime I have a software 383 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,900 development task that I don't have time for or I am not a 384 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,800 subject matter expert in we Put a bounty on get coins, open 385 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,700 source, repo and build get coin with get coins. 386 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:12,200 So it's been a way that we've been able to do a lot with a, 387 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,000 with a small team Market protocol, which is a derivatives 388 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,800 trading platform on aetherium, has used us to lat. 389 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,300 And if you go down the list, you can see names like decentraland 390 00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:28,000 and furo cybercom cyber Congress, auger web 3j giveth. 391 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,200 We've done projects or bounties with a lot of different projects 392 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,900 in the space and it's been a real blessing to earn from all 393 00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,500 of the different use cases that people are trying to build an 394 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:40,400 etherium because they're quite fast. 395 00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:45,500 So maybe this is the time to go into some stats, you actually 396 00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:49,100 have quite an extensive stats section on on your website. 397 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,300 So how many bounties are there on? 398 00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:54,200 Get coin total Right. Thanks. 399 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,900 Yeah, as you noted, if you go to get coin dot Coast results, you 400 00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,600 can always see our updated stats in the reason that we've done 401 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,100 that is because people typically see the get coin landing page. 402 00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:05,700 And they say, oh, this looks well done. 403 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,100 And it's a good idea, but does it work well? 404 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:10,200 Hey, flip over to this stat section. 405 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,000 And here's all our numbers, you think it's working? 406 00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:18,300 And yeah, the to answer your question, we've done almost 407 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:22,100 about 1,000, bounties on on get coin over the last year, and we 408 00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:26,100 also have the A feature called tips which is just it's just 409 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,000 sending money from from person a to person B. 410 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,300 And we've done about 1,000 of those for a total of two 411 00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:37,200 thousand transactions. We have done a total in three 412 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,400 hundred and forty three thousand dollars worth of total platform 413 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,300 value on get coin. And if you break that down by 414 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:48,500 month, it's sort of on an upward slope as we get get more 415 00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:54,200 adoption in the space over time and We've helped, let's see. 416 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,700 The stat. The most current stat is 220. 417 00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:01,000 Funders, reach an audience of just over 10,000 developers and 418 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,700 complete, two thousand transactions with 550 unique 419 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:07,500 coders. So that's, that's sort of the 420 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:09,300 volume that's going through the double sided Market. 421 00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:14,400 In total on a per unit basis. If you post a bounty on get 422 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,800 coin, you can expect that it will be started within seven 423 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,900 hours. That's the median Bounty start 424 00:25:19,900 --> 00:25:24,500 time and you can expect that it Will be turned around at about 425 00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:28,700 85 percent success rate, once it's started and that will 426 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,900 usually take about six days for the median Bounty, the hourly 427 00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:36,100 rates on the platform are between 20 and 60 dollars, which 428 00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:40,300 is quite a wide range. But I think that, you know, 429 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,700 we're starting to put more analytics into what the hourly 430 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:45,900 rates are for specific Bounty types. 431 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:49,300 Because we think that right now get coins buoyed by the fact 432 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:51,600 that everyone's searching for software developers in the 433 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,200 blockchain space. And so there's a lot more demand 434 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,200 than there is Supply. But over time, we think it's 435 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,900 really important for the brand that there's healthy hourly 436 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,400 rates for get coin bounties because you know, we don't want 437 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,500 to be another fiver or another up work, where it's just sort of 438 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:09,900 seen as a race to the bottom. We think it's really important 439 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,000 to provide leverage for software developers, to lead better lives 440 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000 in, to get involved, in a were in a space. 441 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,000 That's that's making the world better. 442 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,100 And so, we're really, we're really focused on that hourly 443 00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:25,900 rate number as get Coin grows from having 200 funders to 1000 444 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:30,800 funders and Beyond. What so here, well, I think you 445 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,900 do you name the numbers so we could do the math. 446 00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,900 So what's the, what's the average funding of a bounty? 447 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:43,100 Yeah, the average funding of a bounty is about $170. 448 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:47,100 Cool and other bounties that don't get collected. 449 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,000 Yeah, one of the things that we've found is that and I'm 450 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,200 really glad you asked this question. 451 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,500 Because if you think about the gig economy, I think an example, 452 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:59,900 everyone's really used to is Uber right with Uber, you take 453 00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:01,900 me from A to B and you do it safely. 454 00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:04,700 And, you know, there's no weird quirks and I'll give you five 455 00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:06,300 stars and I'll give you a tip, right? 456 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,700 But with software development, it's a little bit different 457 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:13,400 because if I'm asking you to do software development for you I'm 458 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,700 inherently a You to do something, that's pretty 459 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:20,000 abstract, right? I would like feature X but then 460 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,000 maybe I'll get a submission. That looks like feature x sub 461 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,800 Prime and then and then I'll say back to the to the coder. 462 00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:32,700 Oh you know I really wanted x sub prime one but I just was 463 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:37,500 only able to elaborate it progressively and and I think 464 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:41,200 that you know that's that's sort of one of the more happy paths 465 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,500 on get coin. And we always ask that people 466 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,400 set aside. A little bit of budget to deal 467 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,400 with Progressive elaboration on on their bounties. 468 00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:53,600 But I think that I think that there's there's sort of like a 469 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,800 failure case here in which I either ask for too much and I 470 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,600 haven't funded the Bounty at a level in which it's going to get 471 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,200 picked up. We call that underfunding, there 472 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,900 is a failure case called Under scoping of your issue. 473 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,000 So if you just put up something that's not really comprehensible 474 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,700 and you don't provide the right documentation for how to 475 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:16,400 understand the mission of the project and the ethos of the 476 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,200 project, and how to spin up the docker container for it. 477 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,800 Then you're not going to get a lot of bites. 478 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,400 And I also think that quite candidly get coin is not one 479 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,700 giant double sided Market where a bunch of small, double sided 480 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:34,000 markets for python development and JavaScript development, and 481 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,900 solidity, development and security. 482 00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:39,900 It hunts, and each of these little niches are their own 483 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,500 little double sided Market. It's kind of like, if you go on 484 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:46,900 air B&B and you search for a house in New York, the liquidity 485 00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:50,400 and Florida doesn't help you with your with your house, or 486 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,600 with your, with your search in New York, and it's very much the 487 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,800 same way when you're searching for a bounty hunter on, get 488 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,900 coin. So I think that there are some 489 00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,800 some niches that we haven't figured out exactly how to 490 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,500 penetrate within within software development. 491 00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:05,900 Probably compiler compiler bounty. 492 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,600 Is, I haven't seen a ton of those so I'll just we'll call 493 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,800 that the example and get coins, trying to get better at building 494 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,800 the muscle to instantly scale a double sided Market as soon as 495 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600 there's demands. But we're only a small team and 496 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,200 we haven't quite gotten there yet. 497 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,400 So, the third category of failure, case that I'm sort of 498 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,100 trying to describe here is not enough liquidity in the market 499 00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:30,200 and it's that's the one that I think that we're really focused 500 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,100 on improving in 2019. I have two little follow-up 501 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:39,700 questions. So one, the first one is so how 502 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:44,100 much back and forth is that typically between the funder and 503 00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,400 the person actually working on the Bounty? 504 00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:50,800 And secondly, what kind of dispute resolution do your 505 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,300 offer? So basically if I find an issue 506 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,800 and I get an absolutely subpar response and they want to 507 00:29:58,808 --> 00:30:02,600 collect the Bounty for that. How do I, what would I do as the 508 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,100 funder? Yeah. 509 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:08,300 So to answer your question, we've seen on average three or 510 00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:10,800 four comments on GitHub threads between when the bounty is 511 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,400 posted and when it's actually submitted. 512 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000 So I think that's the answer to your first question. 513 00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:20,500 The, the answer your tears. Sweat, second question is, how 514 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:23,700 does dispute resolution on on get coin work? 515 00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:28,400 And so the thing that we're trying to instill in our funders 516 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,100 here is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of 517 00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:33,500 cure. And so the first thing that That 518 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:36,700 you can do is do a really good job of scoping out what you want 519 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,800 to see and what your coding standards are, what the 520 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,000 acceptance criteria for your Bounty, is not all funders do 521 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,500 this, but the ones that do CC way less disputes. 522 00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:52,300 Another feature that we offer is called permission bounties. 523 00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:54,300 So if you're asking for something that requires a new 524 00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:58,300 skill set or subjective submission criteria, for 525 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,800 example, I do a lot of design bounties on get coin and if I 526 00:31:01,808 --> 00:31:04,300 don't like someone's design, It doesn't mean that their 527 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,000 submission was wrong. It just means that I'm not gonna 528 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,300 be able to use it because it aesthetically doesn't Vibe with 529 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:14,700 with what I'm trying to do. So approval approval required. 530 00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:17,800 Bounties are another way to prevent disputes from happening 531 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:23,000 and and so we've tried to do that convinced funders to use 532 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,900 that as much as possible. That's that's prevented a lot of 533 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:32,600 disputes and then and then so the the the question becomes 534 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,100 well what if those two Preventive measures don't work. 535 00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,600 Then what happens? And so I think that there's two 536 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,500 levels of answering your question. 537 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:42,300 With respect to how dispute resolution works on get coin. 538 00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,400 One is what's the trustless dispute? 539 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,000 Resolution immutability layer forget coin and the second one 540 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,900 is what are the social norms that are acceptable in open 541 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:56,300 source software and specifically on get coin? 542 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,400 Now get coin is one of the first bouncy networks that actually 543 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,800 has scale and that people are actually using the I'm smart 544 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,800 contracts to work for their first crypto instead of buying 545 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,400 their first crypto. And so, I think that we're an 546 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 interesting test case here, we're also very lucky to be 547 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,500 working on open source software, where there's sort of social 548 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:18,500 norms around what's acceptable. Because everything you do is for 549 00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:21,500 the most part, tied to your real identity, your GitHub profile 550 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,800 which is tied to your, to your real identity. 551 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,800 So we're lucky that there's an ethos and open source software 552 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,400 where we treat each other like humans. 553 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,100 And also it's connected to our to our real-world identity and 554 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:35,500 that creates a social Norm ERM where the acceptable, you know, 555 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:39,400 if someone submits it something that I truly isn't usable and 556 00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:43,300 it's it's not against if it's against my specifications, then 557 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,700 I'll go back to them and say, hey can you please revise this 558 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,500 and maybe they will. Maybe they won't if they do then 559 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:50,000 maybe we're back on the happy path. 560 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,400 And if they don't then we're maybe I'll tip them. 20% in 561 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,900 exchange for their time and move on to the next contributor. 562 00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:01,900 We haven't seen any disputes actually escalated to get coin 563 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,500 core yet. We do know that as we scale, 564 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:08,600 that it's something that we're going to have to be able to deal 565 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,300 with. The plan is to leverage delfi 566 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:16,700 Network, which is an arbitration platform that's being built by 567 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:19,700 by the bounties Network and other consensus project. 568 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:23,300 And the way it's going to work is that in, in our Bounty smart 569 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,800 contract. There's there's an address which 570 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,400 right now is the null address but eventually, it'll be a smart 571 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,900 contract. That's the represents five, 572 00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:34,600 Arbiters and three. Out of five, Arbiters will have 573 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,300 to vote in your favor in order to send the steak to the, to the 574 00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:41,500 funder, or to the coder. So we've put a lot of thought 575 00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:45,700 into this and we don't have it live yet but in the the tldr is 576 00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:48,900 that in the meantime, social norms have have sort of allowed 577 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,400 us to create a good user experience without the backing 578 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,600 of that smart contract. Trustless layer If you've 579 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,800 listened to previous episodes with Marley gray and Matt 580 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,100 koerner, you know, that Microsoft is committed to 581 00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,600 providing enterprise-grade tools and infrastructure for 582 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,400 blockchain developers. Well, the Azure blockchain 583 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,699 workbench is perfect for organizations building. 584 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,000 Consortium networks. Take the etherium proof of 585 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,699 authority template, for example, it's ideal for permission. 586 00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:15,699 Networks were consensus, participants, are known and 587 00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:18,400 reputable. A theorem on Azure has on chain 588 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,800 Network governance, that leverages parodies extensible, 589 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,100 proof of authority. Client, each Consortium member 590 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,500 has the power to govern the network or delegate their 591 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:27,000 consensus. Disciplines to a trusted 592 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,199 operator and parodies. Webassembly support allows 593 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,800 developers to write smart contracts and for many languages 594 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,199 like C C++ and rust as your blockchain workbench was created 595 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,800 on the same principles that drive all Production Services in 596 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,500 Azure. So, you know you're relying on 597 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:44,900 secure redundant infrastructure, that can scale and we built in 598 00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:47,000 services. Like authenticating apis off 599 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,400 chain databases and secure Key Management Services. 600 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,699 You can scaffold your infrastructure in just a few 601 00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:55,100 hours to learn more about Azure blockchain workbench and how 602 00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:57,300 Microsoft is dancing. Blockchain usability, and 603 00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:01,100 Enterprise, check out aka.ms/offweb the center and 604 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:03,800 start building today. We'd like to thank Microsoft 605 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,100 Azure for their support of epicenter on the topic of 606 00:35:07,107 --> 00:35:09,100 dispute resolution. I mean, this is something that 607 00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:12,800 we've covered I feel like in previous episodes but do so you 608 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,700 know you mentioned delfi network is as a potential dispute 609 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:22,300 resolution mechanism. I'm not super familiar how it 610 00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:27,100 works but do you envision that You said earlier, you know, 611 00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,100 there are sort of like different markets so you might have 612 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,300 JavaScript development or python development or you know at some 613 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:36,700 point that if sequence successful you might see get 614 00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:41,900 coin, open up and get into other types of software development. 615 00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:45,500 That isn't specifically. The blockchain could be like 616 00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:49,400 security or Linux development, or Windows development, do you 617 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,900 envision a future where? As a, as a project funder? 618 00:35:56,700 --> 00:36:01,100 I would specify my dispute resolution mechanism. 619 00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:04,300 And so the one that best works for my specific use case. 620 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,400 And also where I know that I'm going to find competent, 621 00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:14,700 dispute, resolution, Arbiters. Yeah, that's a really good 622 00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:18,100 question. And I think that Dispute 623 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:22,400 resolution is is something that's hopefully, we're going to 624 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,900 see a lot more momentum in the broader space in in blockchain, 625 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:31,200 in 2019, the way, the get coin smart contracts are architected 626 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,900 is that we're using standard bounties, which is a standard 627 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,800 VIP want to 1081, which is the standard for bounties on 628 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,100 ethereum. And there's actually an address 629 00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:44,200 field on the smart contract that allows you to plug in play any 630 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,400 arbitration Network that exists on a theory. 631 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,900 And so I think that we're most excited about the delfi network 632 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,400 and what they're doing with with arbitration. 633 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,700 But as a funder, you'll be able to build in any number of 634 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:59,900 arbitration networks because of the extensibility. 635 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:06,100 The modular design of that smart contracts. so at the moment, get 636 00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:12,100 coin primarily is hosting bounties for the blockchain, 637 00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:16,500 ecosystem, blocking projects and I guess what would be desirable, 638 00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:18,900 it would be to see that expand into sort of broader 639 00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:23,500 development, brought our open source development, so companies 640 00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:30,000 like Facebook and Google and other large web to companies you 641 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,200 agree use bounties to Identify security vulnerabilities on 642 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,400 their systems for example, that has been quite successful. 643 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:44,200 I think for many of them, do you see get coin moving into the 644 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,800 closed-source software space and how would that play out in your 645 00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:53,800 in your view? Yeah, I think that by and large 646 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,300 the ethos of the project right now, it's stated. 647 00:37:56,300 --> 00:37:59,800 Read our mission page is to grow and sustain open source 648 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,200 software. The commons of the software 649 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,900 development world and I think that our mission is is one of 650 00:38:06,908 --> 00:38:09,800 the big reasons why people choose to do bounties on get 651 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,000 coin people. I like to say that you we as as 652 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,000 web, three designers need to design for humans and not just 653 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,700 wallets. And one of the things that we've 654 00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:21,700 learned about human beings is that they decide to do work. 655 00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:24,600 Not only based upon the compensation that they're doing 656 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,400 but also upon the impact that that work is going to have both 657 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,400 on their own lives and skill sets, but on the World At Large 658 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,500 and also whether or not it aligns, With their values. 659 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:38,700 And I think that the open source source, ethos of get coin has 660 00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:42,800 really buoyed us as we've as we've been coming out of seed 661 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,200 stage and growing a little bit larger. 662 00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:50,200 Now that being said, there is a large portion of the world that 663 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,600 operates on Norms of closed-source software, and we 664 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,600 do plan on building a bridge. From the open the community of 665 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,500 get coin contributors that are right now focused on open source 666 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000 and building a bridge to close Source bounties. 667 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,800 And you know, you can expect that in the future. 668 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,600 If you post a bounty on get coin on a closed Source repo it'll 669 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,500 maybe have an option to India contributor and give you instant 670 00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:18,100 access to the code base as soon as you're accepted on that 671 00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,600 Bounty so that's a feature set that you could that you could 672 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,100 hope to see in the future. And really what? 673 00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:26,900 I think that we're disrupting when we go into closed source. 674 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:32,500 Is software development recruitment and anyone who who's 675 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:35,500 been on LinkedIn for more than six months knows that software 676 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,200 development recruitment is broken. 677 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,800 And there's not you know it or if you've spent some time doing 678 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,500 whiteboard interviews then I think that you might think that 679 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,800 your interview for a position as a software engineer in in in a 680 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400 major tech company. Maybe doesn't approximate what 681 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,900 the real world user experience of working. 682 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,900 Being in that company is and the reason why we want to enter 683 00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:01,900 closed Source bounties is that we think that bounties are 684 00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:06,000 fundamentally a better way to hire software developers than 685 00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:08,600 than white board interviews or spray-and-pray. 686 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,200 LinkedIn messages. I mean you can basically just 687 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,000 set up a screening Bounty for your company and not work on 688 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,800 something that approximates what it would be like, working at 689 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,200 that company, but actually work on work that you'd be doing if 690 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,800 you worked at that company. And that's a really great way to 691 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,900 understand and a low pressure way. 692 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,800 No whiteboard interviews, no long phone calls, no recruiter 693 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,900 screens. That's a way to try before you 694 00:40:32,908 --> 00:40:36,100 buy on hiring and so we think that that's a potential. 695 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,500 Not only new feature for get coin but that's a potential 696 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:41,800 Revenue opportunity for the project in the future. 697 00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:44,800 So I just decide question what's a white board interview? 698 00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:49,900 Oh, white board interview is if you're recruiting for a software 699 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,800 development job, you'll probably go through a phone screen and 700 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,900 then you'll get invited on site. And then you'll be asked to 701 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,100 stand up in front of a whiteboard in front of a couple 702 00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:04,700 people who would be your teammates and sort of binary 703 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:08,300 tree or something like that. Basically, the complaint that 704 00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:11,000 software developers often have about whiteboard interviews is 705 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,100 that if you want to sort of binary tree and your day job, 706 00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:16,400 you just Google how to do it, and then you just coat it in 707 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,400 front of your computer, but a lot of software developers are 708 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:22,600 socially anxious, and so, standing up in front of a white 709 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:23,900 board and writing something down. 710 00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:26,300 In explaining, your thoughts in front of a panel of three to 711 00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:28,100 five people. Oil is not really a good 712 00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:31,000 approximation of what it's like to do the job there. 713 00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:35,200 And so, that's sort of what a whiteboard interview is and why 714 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:41,800 it's bad in in 25 seconds. So are you saying you see this 715 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,600 more as a springboard to actually get a stable employment 716 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,400 with, with the company? Yeah, I mean, I think that, in 717 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,500 some cases bounties are springboard to get stable 718 00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:56,700 employment with the company. We've also seen people that are 719 00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:59,600 interested in just working for bounties because they like the 720 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,000 variety and we have a contributor in Nigeria and we 721 00:42:03,008 --> 00:42:10,600 have a contributor in India who are making Western wages by just 722 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,200 working for get coin. And so we've sort of seen both 723 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,500 categories of people on the application. 724 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,500 So typically people also see themselves as part of a company. 725 00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:29,600 I think this is one of its kind of where people obtain meaning. 726 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,900 I was one of the things that lets people have a narrative 727 00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:37,700 about their own life and tell people what they do for a 728 00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:40,500 living, and who they work for? What, what that, what they do. 729 00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:44,100 Exactly. So in the gig economy, that, 730 00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:48,000 that is, something that is lost a little bit, right? 731 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,800 So, The connection between the company itself and the employee. 732 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:59,500 And my question is is twofold. So do you think this is this is 733 00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:03,800 something that a lot of people actually want do they want to be 734 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,200 Freelancers and not be tied down but also not have that feeling 735 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:14,100 of belonging to a company but also how does that actually pan 736 00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:17,300 out for the companies? So basically if your company and 737 00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:22,700 you actually have You do you do a lot of your development work? 738 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,000 Your external externalize, it by by funding bounties. 739 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,500 You actually have to specify everything to an excruciating 740 00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,500 detail to actually get good results. 741 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,600 Add to me, it seems like that wouldn't work for any kind of 742 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,100 tasks and of course, there are tasks where this works 743 00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:44,100 perfectly. But as soon as they actually, if 744 00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:47,200 they actually have an effect on the system architecture, for 745 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,100 instance, this kind of Sound. I mean obviously that that were 746 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:56,200 contained tasks like security testing and and small issue a 747 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,000 small tickets that you can specify well. 748 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,200 But do you think this actually scales can you build an entire 749 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,800 company just by putting out bounties? 750 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,000 Okay, so a good really good question. 751 00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:13,500 I think that we're building and I'm going to come back to your 752 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:15,600 question but first to frame the my answer. 753 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,400 I think that we're building a completely open source The 754 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,100 system that's based on money becoming a core protocol of the 755 00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:26,000 internet as opposed to something that was just bolted on, on the, 756 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,600 on the side. And I think that right now, 95% 757 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,300 of the applications in the open-source Financial system, 758 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:38,000 our web Wall Street 3.0, sort of financial speculation 759 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,100 applications. And I am very, very happy to be 760 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:44,700 exploring the ideas of what do open source Financial system, 761 00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:50,400 jobs look like and I think that there is One macro theme that 762 00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:53,900 sort of is, is perpendicular to that open source Financial 763 00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:58,200 system jobs idea. And that's what happens to jobs 764 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,700 if and when they're unbundled from what traditional employment 765 00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:04,400 looks like. So, you know, not to expand the 766 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,900 scope of your question, but I think a lot of, like, what keeps 767 00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:10,000 me up at night is, you know, what happens in in this new 768 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,300 ecosystem, to health insurance, and, to into retirement plans, 769 00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:20,000 and to the stability associated with With a traditional 770 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,400 employment agreement and there's a company in Boulder Colorado 771 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,300 called topless, which is, which is working on that, which I'm 772 00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:31,300 very excited about, they want to provide self Sovereign 773 00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:35,300 employment that you carry with you, from job to job and see 774 00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:37,400 your health insurance. In your retirement is just sort 775 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,800 of like, part of this. This dowel that comes with you 776 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,500 from company to company. But to specifically address, 777 00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:50,100 what you asked me about, which was Was, which was, you know, do 778 00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:53,800 people want to go from company to company and you have to 779 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,800 specify things in excruciating detail if you for every single 780 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,400 task that's out there in your company, I think that there's 781 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,100 two major axes. Like there's a trade-off here 782 00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:10,400 between stability and variety of both stability of work, and 783 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,300 variety of work and stability of of who you're working with and 784 00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:18,200 variety of recruitment that comes in. 785 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,000 And so, the thing that I'll I'll say is that we think that 786 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,700 bounties are just our first act. And we're going to be expanding 787 00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:30,100 outside of just Bounties in the future. 788 00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,200 We think that. So there's this computer science 789 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,300 cliche that they taught me in computer science 101, which I'm 790 00:46:36,308 --> 00:46:38,800 going to repeat here. And that's that, if the only 791 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,300 tool that you have in your hand, your toolbox is a hammer. 792 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,800 Then, every problem looks like a nail and bounties are amazing. 793 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,200 I love the bounties Network. I love the ability to instantly. 794 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,800 You recruit software Engineers to to get coin. 795 00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:55,700 But I think that they're only good for for specific Niche 796 00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:57,800 tasks where you don't need to have a lot of trust. 797 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,000 You don't need to provision access, you don't need to give a 798 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,500 lot of context and so the next product that we're going to be 799 00:47:04,500 --> 00:47:08,500 launching on get coin, is going to be a tool for you to 800 00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:12,200 basically give a stipend to an open-source contributor over. 801 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,700 Time to contribute to your software development repo and 802 00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:21,100 the idea there is that I will use the the standard for 803 00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:25,300 subscriptions on aetherium, VIP 1337 to give you a grant or a 804 00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:28,000 stipend of four hundred dollars per month. 805 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,800 Let's say that I've worked with with you Frederica on on three 806 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,400 or four bounties. I've gotten to a point where I 807 00:47:33,408 --> 00:47:35,600 can trust you. I know that you deliver good 808 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,400 work and I don't want to spend a bunch of time specifying. 809 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,100 Every single task that you do forget coin. 810 00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:44,600 I will give you a 400 die die as a stable coin. 811 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,800 That's worth $1. I will give you a four hundred 812 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,100 died a month Bounty and I'll just A give me $400 worth of 813 00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:52,800 value to my repo. You figure out what it is. 814 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,700 Here's your roadmap and you know thank you very much for becoming 815 00:47:56,700 --> 00:48:01,200 a maintainer of my repository. So I think that the short answer 816 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,400 to your question is that bounties are great for adding 817 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,900 variety to your repository, but people need they stability of 818 00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:13,200 traditional employment. And that will be our second act, 819 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,400 and you can expect that feature to be launching some time in 820 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,900 queue, for 2018. On get coin. 821 00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:22,000 Okay, quiz that super interesting so you don't just 822 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,400 have bounties, you'll also have grants the third thing that I 823 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,100 actually thought about when I read your white paper is public 824 00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:32,100 goods. So do you think there's a way to 825 00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:35,100 actually fund public goods on your platform? 826 00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:38,600 So the thing that came to mind was in was a dominant Assurance 827 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,200 contract. Yeah, so I mean, I think that a 828 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,900 couple answers ago, I had mentioned that people want to do 829 00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:48,300 work, not only the compensates. Well, but aligns, with their 830 00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:51,600 values and has a positive impact on themselves and on the world. 831 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,400 And one of the things that we found is that we're building 832 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,000 this substrate for an open-source Financial system and 833 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,300 in a way, you can make an argument that that some of the 834 00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:04,100 stuff that we're doing with the ethereum foundation and out, the 835 00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:07,600 protocol lever level is a public good and one of the Dynamics 836 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,500 that I'm really excited about talking talking about with Back 837 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,700 to this is the prospect of of crowdfunding a bounty. 838 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,300 So basically if you put forth an idea that's going to help 839 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:20,500 increase the commons, then everyone should have an 840 00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:24,700 incentive to pile on and to add funding to make sure that that 841 00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:28,200 Bounty actually gets gets turned around and get coin, does 842 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,000 support crowdfunding bounties and I think that we do need to 843 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,300 do a better job of soliciting donations in crowdfunding 844 00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:37,900 bounties. But I think that one of the key 845 00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:41,900 things with with supporting the Has is to align the in 846 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,900 individual incentive of the profit incentive of a software 847 00:49:45,900 --> 00:49:47,400 developer. Everyone has to pay their 848 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,400 mortgage and everyone has to put food on their table. 849 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,300 You want to align that individual incentive with what's 850 00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:57,100 good for the community and I think an open-source Financial 851 00:49:57,100 --> 00:50:00,300 system is a really good place to start. 852 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,900 And there are other Commons that we need to support and structure 853 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,100 once we solve the problem of an open-source Financial system. 854 00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:13,100 So I'm excited about Work bounties network is doing in 855 00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:16,700 bounties for the ocean, which is a bounty that you can get paid 856 00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:20,300 out if you if you clean up trash off of a beach, I'm excited 857 00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:24,400 about the way bounties can be applied to combine individual 858 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,100 incentives with Community incentives in a number of 859 00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:30,400 different areas. And I hope that we see more of 860 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,000 that. Once we solve the fundamental 861 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,200 incentive problem with the, with the traditional Financial system 862 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,300 by creating an open-source Financial system. 863 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,800 What? So, if as a contributor actually 864 00:50:41,900 --> 00:50:46,700 start working on the Bounty, I actually have to press a button 865 00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:49,700 that says start work, right? So, in that way, I can actually 866 00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:53,400 stop other people from working on the same problem and I 867 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,400 understand why. So, you don't want to create 868 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,900 race conditions for contributors, which is nice for 869 00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:02,100 contributors and but as a funder and how do I actually make sure 870 00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:04,600 that the person who said they were going to work on this 871 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,000 actually works on this? There's some sort of reputation 872 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,700 That that is at stake. Should they should they not 873 00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:18,000 deliver or in effect? There's an opportunity cost for 874 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,400 the funder so should locking these issues be priced in some 875 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,500 way? Yeah, that's a really great 876 00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:25,100 question and I'm glad that you asked it. 877 00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:29,300 The one thing I'll say is that the start work button, locks the 878 00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,200 bounty in our traditional bouncy type, but we do have contests in 879 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,900 Cooperative bounties, which Cooperative bounties allow you 880 00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:40,300 to work together with other people say, You're a designer 881 00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:43,200 and I'm a front-end engineer. We are skill sets complement 882 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,200 each other and we can complement the we can cooperate on Bounty 883 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,600 with competitive bounties. It's more of a race to get 884 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,100 things done and these are sort of dicey because you don't want 885 00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:57,500 to introduce spec work on to your platform spec. 886 00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:01,300 Work is is speculative work that you don't know if you're 887 00:52:01,300 --> 00:52:04,900 actually going to get paid now. So there's a predatory element 888 00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:08,400 to spec work that we want to keep off of the platform but 889 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,400 there is a Valid use case for contest bounties, namely in the 890 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,200 sense of like a security bouncy. Where if you get an exploit, 891 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,800 then you should be able to get paid for that that exploit. 892 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,700 And I think that that's a healthy use of of contest, type 893 00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:27,200 bounties, but specifically to your question, I'm sorry. 894 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,400 Could you? So your question was was was 895 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,700 about the race condition of start work. 896 00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:34,000 Would you mind repeating it real quick? 897 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,300 Yeah, so sure. So basically the question was as 898 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:43,600 a The the issue actually gets look for other contributors 899 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,600 because they know someone is working on this, but there's a 900 00:52:46,607 --> 00:52:49,300 funder. But do I have control over the 901 00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:51,100 contributor that actually takes this? 902 00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:53,100 Do they have reputation? Can I say? 903 00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:55,700 No, I don't want this guy. They haven't delivered on the 904 00:52:55,700 --> 00:52:58,700 past three issues or they say I'm working on this and then 905 00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:01,500 they, then they then they never heard from again. 906 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,100 So, should they actually have to put up some funds that are 907 00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,300 slashed if they don't deliver? Or should they have a reputation 908 00:53:07,300 --> 00:53:08,800 system? Where you can see? 909 00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:11,900 This person has consistently delivered for other projects. 910 00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:14,200 I should trust them as well, with locking this bounty, and 911 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,600 making this an available for other people, right? 912 00:53:16,700 --> 00:53:17,600 Okay. Yeah. 913 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,000 Thanks for reorienting me there. Yeah, so the, we have 914 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,800 permissioned bounties, which is I'll select the contributor, 915 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,100 they'll apply and I'll select them. 916 00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:27,800 And then we also have permission list which is just anyone can 917 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,600 start and work on the bounty, we have found that there's a small 918 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,200 issue with Bounty abandonment which is basically someone 919 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,900 claims they're going to work on something and then they go on. 920 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,700 Sail sailing for two weeks and then they don't come back or 921 00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:44,500 they're just not being responsive. 922 00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:47,200 And so we have sort of a slashing condition they're in 923 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,700 which will Mark prominently on their profile. 924 00:53:49,700 --> 00:53:52,600 This person is not commutative and they might just bail on you. 925 00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:56,800 So I think that reputation is sort of being built there and 926 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:02,100 one of the items on the roadmap for early 2019 is the ability to 927 00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:06,000 not only have permissions bounties and permissionless 928 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,900 bounties but have a third option to steak semi Sure that says 929 00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:13,200 that you're actually serious about getting this done and so I 930 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,500 think that that's a crypto staking is a crypto economic 931 00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:19,500 primitive. That's obviously, the ethereum 932 00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:22,200 foundation is excited about with respect to Casper and other 933 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,900 projects are excited about and we will be building that into 934 00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:31,400 get coin in early 2019. So moving on to the next topic 935 00:54:31,700 --> 00:54:36,400 and you mentioned it, briefly previously is the EIP 1 through 936 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,800 37 or leet and is it is a proposed standard for 937 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,600 subscriptions on blockchain. This is a proposal that you made 938 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:54,000 on an EIP system and is for the ERC 948 token standard. 939 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,800 Tell us about this token standard. 940 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,200 And I, you're advocating for it, right? 941 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:08,400 Well, so as you noted, its VIP 1337, which was an EIP number 942 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:13,000 that I was watching for about about a month and a half, for 943 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,700 those of the, those of you who don't know, 1337 stands for 944 00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:22,400 elite which is short for elite. And it's one of the, I think 945 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,400 it's from Gamers back in the day if you got like a headshot in, 946 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,200 do more something, you would say, oh, that's soul. 947 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,300 Eat. But old geek reference. 948 00:55:31,300 --> 00:55:33,000 It's a, it's an old geek reference. 949 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:33,900 Thank you. You're more clear. 950 00:55:33,900 --> 00:55:37,100 How many people how many people you think we're looking at this 951 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,000 VIP? Like just waiting for it to come 952 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,400 up and posting something on it? I've met at least one person 953 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,100 who's like on, man, you got it and I didn't, but the way I got, 954 00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:47,800 it was I wrote a python script that sent me a copious number of 955 00:55:47,808 --> 00:55:49,400 text messages when it was available. 956 00:55:49,900 --> 00:55:53,300 But anyway, so that's just the number and it surely lead, sir. 957 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,900 Yeah, that's that's sort of some of like the geeky history there. 958 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,500 But the reason for the, for the standard is that I think that 959 00:56:03,500 --> 00:56:05,800 we're building an open-source Financial system, and I think 960 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,700 that tokens in ico's or just the First Act of this world 961 00:56:09,700 --> 00:56:12,700 financial computer that we're building, I think the ico's are 962 00:56:12,700 --> 00:56:16,300 really great for a lot of things, but I do think that 963 00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:20,200 subscriptions are a very healthy way of aligning, the incentives 964 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,800 of depth, founders with consumers of depths and the 965 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,000 issue that I always give to illustrate. 966 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,200 This is that when you want to subscribe to To Netflix, which 967 00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,900 is ten dollars a month. You just subscribe to Netflix 968 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,800 because it's pretty low risk and there's not a high information 969 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,600 barrier to subscribing to Netflix. 970 00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:41,500 I just pay $10 a month and I cancel down the line. 971 00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:44,200 If I'm not getting value from it, there's no white paper to 972 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,500 read. You know, we're competing with 973 00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:48,700 utility tokens by the way, which there's a 45-page white paper to 974 00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:49,800 read. You have to understand who the 975 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,600 founders are what their vesting schedule is, what is the crypto 976 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,400 economic primitive of this white paper? 977 00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:56,900 I just want to use your product, I don't want to have to do a ton 978 00:56:56,900 --> 00:57:01,100 of research and so and so Paying $10 a month. 979 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,000 It's something that people are used to in the Legacy web and 980 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,200 it's a low-risk way of trying things that that you can always 981 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,300 cancel over time. If you're if you end up not 982 00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:12,200 using it or not getting value from it. 983 00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,100 The other side of the coin is for adapt founder. 984 00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,000 So if you're adapt founder and you choose to do an IC 0, then 985 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,400 you get a lot of money in the door, you have a little bit of 986 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,800 regulatory uncertainty associated with that money, if 987 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,400 you're in the United States, like I am and you basically have 988 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:32,000 to build utility and then and then assume that you're the 989 00:57:32,008 --> 00:57:34,500 people who bought your tokens. The speculators are going to be 990 00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:37,300 the same people who are going to derive utility from your 991 00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:39,900 platform. We think that subscriptions are 992 00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:43,100 a fundamentally better. Way to monetize your doubt 993 00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:46,500 because your speculative are there are no speculators. 994 00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:50,000 It's all just product Market fit, who's going to use my 995 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,000 platform and also if I have X number of subscribers and I have 996 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,400 y conversion rate and I have z turn rate, then I know my cash 997 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,200 flow. 12 months down the line. If you can find a nice you or 998 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,300 token based system that knows their cash flow and 12 months, 999 00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:08,600 come find me. And and tell me about it because 1000 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,300 I don't think that that exists in the tokenization model and in 1001 00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:14,200 to be clear, I think that ico's in token. 1002 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,400 Tokenization is fundamentally Innovative, but I think that 1003 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,400 subscriptions are meant to provide an alternative funding 1004 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,000 model Ford apps, that's proven out. 1005 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,800 It works in Web 2.0 and and we think that it should exist in in 1006 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:33,200 web 3.0 And so what myself and the many many other, smart 1007 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,400 people who are involved in EIP 1337, have done, is we've 1008 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,700 created a standard for subscriptions on the blockchain 1009 00:58:40,900 --> 00:58:43,600 that you will be able to just drop into your dap when we 1010 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,100 launched in two weeks at Defcon 4 in Prague. 1011 00:58:47,100 --> 00:58:50,000 So basically, the idea is that you just clone our repo and then 1012 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,000 you can instantly put subscriptions into your depth 1013 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,300 in. We have a, we have a reference 1014 00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:58,000 implementation that's been security audited, and is ready 1015 00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,900 to just be dropped. Opt-in to your repo. 1016 00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:02,300 So you don't have to do a bunch of research in order to put 1017 00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:05,800 subscriptions into your Dap. You can just, you can just clone 1018 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,800 the repo and put it in there, and hopefully, we'll see a 1019 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,600 proliferation of projects that monetize with subscriptions 1020 00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,100 instead of tokenization. After we launched at Devcon. 1021 00:59:16,100 --> 00:59:21,000 At the end of October this year, Okay, so just understand how 1022 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,100 this works. So I'm a, I'm a adaptive, 1023 00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:29,800 pelipper, I'm building. I don't know, some sort of a Dap 1024 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:36,100 to like a Marketplace for preferred to get issues or 1025 00:59:36,107 --> 00:59:38,100 whatever. Okay, I'm bit I'll be I'm 1026 00:59:38,100 --> 00:59:41,800 building a widget, you know, typically I would, I would, I 1027 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:46,300 would fund that with an IC o----, utility token or not. 1028 00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:49,800 That's not really the question here but You think that an 1029 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,500 alternative funding model and its really make sense would be 1030 00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:56,300 to build that app and rather than go out and race, a bunch of 1031 00:59:56,308 --> 01:00:01,500 money through Nico and distribute these utility tokens. 1032 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:08,900 You can simply open that product to the community as a user. 1033 01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:16,800 I pay a monthly subscription in ether and I get access to the, 1034 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,100 to the DAP. How does that? 1035 01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:22,800 How does that work? From a user's perspective? 1036 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,500 Because I presume I mean you would want to have it done in 1037 01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:30,300 such a way that the price would be may be fixed to something 1038 01:00:30,300 --> 01:00:31,900 that more stable. Like dollars. 1039 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,800 Is that does that? Is that part of the standard or 1040 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,600 not? Yes. 1041 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:43,000 So he IP 1337 is built off of ERC 20, which is the token 1042 01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,000 standard on ethereum. And we do think there is a use 1043 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,300 case for for any year, see 20 token but the ones that were 1044 01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:53,600 most excited about are stable coins. 1045 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,700 And so basically the way it works is that you will as a 1046 01:00:57,700 --> 01:01:02,000 consumer that's going to Sebastian's widgets.com and 1047 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,500 wants to subscribe to it. You'll you'll be prompted to 1048 01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:09,200 purchase a subscription and And you will sign in a transaction 1049 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,800 in meta mask. That is your consent to debit 1050 01:01:12,900 --> 01:01:16,200 the let's call it. Ten died a month just to stick 1051 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,800 with that price point for Sebastian's, widgets 1052 01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:24,100 Sebastian's, widgets ships, widgets to you once a month and 1053 01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:28,400 you can revoke that consent at any time using the smart 1054 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,100 contract. And basically, once you revoke 1055 01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:35,200 consent, the provider will never be able to charge you again for 1056 01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,700 for that widget purchase. And if You've coded Sebastian's 1057 01:01:38,700 --> 01:01:41,500 widgets.com correctly. You'll stop sending widgets to 1058 01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:45,400 the to that consumer. And so the idea is that you can 1059 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,300 trust this league create and revoke consent for those ERC, 20 1060 01:01:49,300 --> 01:01:52,000 tokens to be debited from your account using the smart 1061 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:57,800 contract. This seems awfully similar to 1062 01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:02,300 other solutions that people have implemented in the past for 1063 01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:04,900 things like video, streaming, where there's essentially a 1064 01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:10,000 payment Channel That's opened up and there are sort of 1065 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,500 transactions that are signed every second or whatever every 1066 01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:19,200 time period and content. That is delivered in exchange. 1067 01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:23,300 How different is that from from like a typical Co-payment 1068 01:02:23,300 --> 01:02:26,100 Channel implementation. Got it. 1069 01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:31,000 So, yeah, you're right. The, the sort of screaming money 1070 01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,700 use case. I think, is a really, really 1071 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,800 important one for the future of the open-source Financial web. 1072 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,700 And the one thing I'll say is that I'm on the business models, 1073 01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:46,800 ring a teeth magicians, in, in Prague this, this fall and I'm 1074 01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,800 by no means this subscriptions maximalist. 1075 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,900 I just I just think that you know, the more that we can 1076 01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:54,700 explore these different business models, the better, the 1077 01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:57,500 difference between And subscriptions and payment 1078 01:02:57,500 --> 01:03:02,500 channels specifically is as a difference in granularity 1079 01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:04,500 subscriptions. The use case is a little bit 1080 01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:08,500 more once a week and once a month and also there's an 1081 01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:10,800 expectation of how you m the charges. 1082 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:16,400 So, basically, if if I'm paying for a video stream, just use 1083 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,500 your video streaming example, and I accidentally leave on my, 1084 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:25,000 my video stream for 72 hours. Then I'm liable to get charged 1085 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,100 for wait. More than I would if there is 1086 01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:33,100 just a fixed price $10 a month subscription to to your video 1087 01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:34,900 channel. So I think that the two primary 1088 01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:38,100 differences between the streaming money use case and 1089 01:03:38,100 --> 01:03:41,500 subscriptions is a the granularity and B whether your 1090 01:03:41,500 --> 01:03:45,400 metered based off of exact usage or just on a monthly or weekly 1091 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,500 basis. Cool, it's super glue, that's a 1092 01:03:49,500 --> 01:03:52,000 fantastic VIP. When do you think it's going to 1093 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,500 be available? So we're in a pending state 1094 01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:59,200 right now, and there's a reference implementation that 1095 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:03,800 has been Then security audited that you can just drop into your 1096 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,900 dap right now on in the middle of October. 1097 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:11,200 The official launch is at Devcon for in Prague, which is two 1098 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,600 weeks away. And so if any of your listeners 1099 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,100 are going to be a Devcon for, please come find me. 1100 01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:19,000 And I will give you a copious amount of Swag that all says, 1101 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,000 delete on it. So come find me at Defcon 4. 1102 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,300 That's the, that's the official launch date October 30th. 1103 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,200 So fantastic. So we've spoken a lot about 1104 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,900 financing different things but we have we haven't spoken about 1105 01:04:32,900 --> 01:04:36,700 financing get coin so how do you finance yourselves and how do 1106 01:04:36,707 --> 01:04:39,000 you make sure you can pay out your own Bounty question. 1107 01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:43,400 The Bitcoin was initially funded by myself with the gains are 1108 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:48,600 made in the 2017 bull market for aetherium and I was lucky enough 1109 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,000 to be introduced to Joe Lubin who is a co-founder of aetherium 1110 01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,500 and also the founder of consensus, the largest 1111 01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:56,200 blockchain Venture studio in the world. 1112 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,500 I was lucky enough that he believed in our mission of 1113 01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:02,600 growing and sustaining open source software and also 1114 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,100 realized that get coin is a bolt-on accelerants to his 1115 01:05:06,100 --> 01:05:10,400 portfolio of 50 to 100 blockchain based projects. 1116 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,700 So he has agreed to fund us while we explore the 1117 01:05:14,700 --> 01:05:17,700 intersection of jobs and open source, software, and bounties, 1118 01:05:17,700 --> 01:05:21,500 and subscriptions. And all of that, good stuff and 1119 01:05:21,900 --> 01:05:25,600 and super thankful to Joe, and to the consensus mesh for being 1120 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:30,700 a supportive, Place to experiment on in this area, I 1121 01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:34,000 think that long term. We're trying to figure out what 1122 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,000 our business model is. We have made a decision that I 1123 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:42,700 cos are just the first killer app of the internet of money and 1124 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:48,100 we have a wider view than just tokenization and icos and don't 1125 01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:49,700 want to just take the first exit ramp. 1126 01:05:49,700 --> 01:05:51,300 That's, that's made available to us. 1127 01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,000 I also think that tokenization and icos don't fundamentally. 1128 01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:58,700 Align the incentives. Lives of our users and of the 1129 01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:02,000 founders of the network. And I think that for that 1130 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:06,300 reason, we've decided not to do an IC o---- at least for now I'm 1131 01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:10,300 very excited about the possibility of subscriptions on 1132 01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:13,500 get coin for all of the reasons that I've mentioned to you while 1133 01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:17,600 we were talking about EIP 1337. I think that subscriptions are a 1134 01:06:17,607 --> 01:06:20,500 great way of aligning incentives between users and zap Founders 1135 01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:24,600 over time. I do think that another model 1136 01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:28,800 that we're looking at is The just taking a percentage of 1137 01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:31,000 every Bounty that's on the platform that's completed 1138 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,200 successfully. If we're providing software 1139 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,700 developers to people who need software development. 1140 01:06:37,700 --> 01:06:42,600 We think that if you consider the Block Chain development rush 1141 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,900 to be a gold rush, then I think that we're selling pick access 1142 01:06:45,900 --> 01:06:50,300 to the gold miners so to speak. And there's there's a there's a, 1143 01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,500 I think there's a valid, reason why we should be taking maybe 1144 01:06:53,500 --> 01:06:55,100 five or ten percent of each Bounty. 1145 01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,600 But You know, we're not exactly sure about that. 1146 01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:03,900 That monetization model. And then the the last answer to 1147 01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:10,200 your question is that get coin is launching a non fungible 1148 01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:15,400 token at Devcon for this year and we have a business model 1149 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,200 that's built into that non fungible token that we're 1150 01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:21,900 launching it Devcon and so I'm pretty excited to see whether or 1151 01:07:21,900 --> 01:07:26,100 not people use the non fungible token and whether or not it's 1152 01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:27,200 something. Thing that can provide us 1153 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,600 Revenue at scale. So I guess that's my, my sort of 1154 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:35,100 like overview of the different monetization models that were 1155 01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:37,700 looking at, but I will just repeat that. 1156 01:07:37,700 --> 01:07:40,500 Joe Lubin has been the ultimate backer and consensus has been 1157 01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:45,100 the ultimate support system. With a long-term view that is 1158 01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:48,100 allowing us to explore this space and focus on our users 1159 01:07:48,100 --> 01:07:51,300 without having to worry a ton about monetization yet and I'm 1160 01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:54,400 very thankful to Joe and consensus for their support. 1161 01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:58,100 Can you expand on the non-functional token that you 1162 01:07:58,107 --> 01:08:01,000 mentioned a little bit? Sure so the official launch is 1163 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,900 at Devcon and reading between the lines we've been pretty busy 1164 01:08:04,900 --> 01:08:09,900 launching EIP 1337 and and the non fungible token at the same 1165 01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:12,900 time. But we're supported by bounties 1166 01:08:12,900 --> 01:08:15,400 and get coin has made made by get coins. 1167 01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,899 So are our small 11 person team is really chugging, but we're 1168 01:08:19,899 --> 01:08:21,800 supported by a community of 10,000. 1169 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:23,899 That's, it's helping us build this. 1170 01:08:23,899 --> 01:08:27,200 So, Trying to launch two major things. 1171 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:31,300 And in one week is, is is something that I think is within 1172 01:08:31,300 --> 01:08:35,300 the realm of ability for us. But anyway, enough framing the 1173 01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,800 the non fungible token that we're launching is called Kudos. 1174 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,700 And what it is is say you turn around a bounty on get coin and 1175 01:08:43,700 --> 01:08:45,800 you did a really spectacular job. 1176 01:08:46,100 --> 01:08:48,399 Get coin. Is issuing a Marketplace of 1177 01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:52,000 beautiful artwork that are at test stations that you can 1178 01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,500 attach to your your get In profile. 1179 01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:58,899 And so, you can, as you're paying out the Bounty, let's 1180 01:08:58,899 --> 01:09:01,899 call it $170 bouncy because I told you that that's the average 1181 01:09:01,899 --> 01:09:03,800 bounty on. Get coin for the price of a 1182 01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,800 postage stamp which is about 40 cents. 1183 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,000 You can show your appreciation for the software developer in 1184 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:14,100 your life and sends them a JavaScript, ninja badge or a 1185 01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:17,700 open-source sustainer badge, that they will be able to trade 1186 01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:19,800 if they want to, if they don't care about it or they can just 1187 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,500 display it on there, get coin profile. 1188 01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:24,399 And again, this is like LinkedIn endorsements, but it's got 1189 01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:26,300 beautiful. Teufel art associated with it 1190 01:09:26,399 --> 01:09:29,899 and it cost 40 cents. So, the price is negligible 1191 01:09:29,899 --> 01:09:32,500 enough that people won't mind attaching it to a hundred and 1192 01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:35,100 seventy dollar Bounty, but it's high enough that people won't 1193 01:09:35,100 --> 01:09:38,300 just like endorsements, Pam, you like, you kind of see on on 1194 01:09:38,300 --> 01:09:41,700 LinkedIn. So the, I guess, the short 1195 01:09:41,700 --> 01:09:44,000 answer to your question is that we're launching an art Market 1196 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,500 Place on get coin that you can use to show appreciation for the 1197 01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:52,000 software developers on your team that you're trying to recruit or 1198 01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,600 build a relationship with awesome. 1199 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:59,100 That's a great way to get people really excited about software 1200 01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:03,800 development and open source. But Kevin, thank you so much for 1201 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,400 coming on today. It's great to have you talking 1202 01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,700 about, get going and looking forward to seeing how the 1203 01:10:07,700 --> 01:10:11,100 platform evolves in the future. It sounds like already. 1204 01:10:11,100 --> 01:10:15,700 It has picked up quite a bit of attention, from the, from the 1205 01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:18,800 open source development community in sort of the broader 1206 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:23,500 ecosystem and I guess probably, we could, we could point to as 1207 01:10:23,500 --> 01:10:27,600 at to it as one of the one of the platform's that's getting 1208 01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,000 actual usage. And so, congratulations for 1209 01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,200 that. Yeah, I thank you both for 1210 01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:37,300 having me on the show and kudos for being great podcast, hosts. 1211 01:10:38,300 --> 01:10:40,200 Thank you and I guess we'll see you at Defcon. 1212 01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:42,900 See you there? All right, thank you again. 1213 01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,200 Thank you for joining us on this week's episode. 1214 01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:49,200 We release new episodes every week. 1215 01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:52,500 You can find And subscribe to the show on iTunes Spotify, 1216 01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:55,600 YouTube SoundCloud or wherever you listen to podcast. 1217 01:10:55,900 --> 01:10:58,800 And if you have a Google home or Alexa device, you can tell it to 1218 01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:01,700 listen to the latest episode of the epicenter podcast, go to 1219 01:11:01,700 --> 01:11:04,900 epicenter, .t V /, subscribe for a full list of places where you 1220 01:11:04,900 --> 01:11:07,500 can watch and listen, while you're there, be sure to sign up 1221 01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:09,600 for the newsletter. So you get new episodes in your 1222 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,700 inbox as they're released. 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