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This is epicenter episode. 364 
with nikhil viswanathan. 

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Hi, I'm Sebastian culture and 
you're listening to epicenter 

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the podcast where we interview 
crypto, Founders, Builders and 

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00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:26,800
thought leaders. 
On this show, we dive deep. 

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Learn how things work, at a 
technical level, and we fly high

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to understand Visionary, 
Concepts, and long-term trends. 

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If you like epicenter, the best 
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You can do that by going to 
epicenter rocks /. 

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Apple. 
Today, our guest is nikhil 

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viswanathan. 
He's the co-founder and CEO of 

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alchemy alchemy's apart form, 
that provides a suite of 

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developer apis and tools for 
aetherium. 

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So running and maintaining in a 
theorem node. 

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Well it's not that easy, 
especially if you're doing that 

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in a production environment 
where you might have thousands 

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of users depending on those 
nodes to use your app and over 

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the years, we've seen several 
services enter the space that 

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provide apis like these into 
your, as probably the most 

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notable example. 
Well out Jimmy came around about

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two years ago and they just came
out of stealth mode. 

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So you can now go to the 
website, create an account and 

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start using the API right away. 
What they do is the obfuscated 

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away node infrastructure and 
they offer, a suite of tools 

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that make it super easy to for 
developers to just start 

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building. 
So there are Pi provides all of 

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the endpoints that you would 
expect, from a vanilla etherium 

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node. 
But there's also all these other

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things that they offer that you 
just don't get out of the box 

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with a vanilla node. 
So, for You can make an API call

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that will pull up all of the 
tokens and balances available on

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an address. 
That's something that would 

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take, you know, lots of time to 
build if you were doing that on 

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top of a vanilla know. 
You'd have to build that 

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infrastructure yourself. 
They also provide access to the 

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trace module in the opening, 
theorem client or previously 

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known as the parody client and 
they have monitoring tools with 

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usage analytics which is really 
useful for a developer. 

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And another cool feature that I 
really like which is A 

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notification API for mobile 
apps. 

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So if you have say a wallet for 
example, and that wallet has to 

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send you a notification to a 
user when a transaction 

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completes or when they receive 
funds on an address, for 

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example, well, they have the API
that allows you to build that 

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into your app really easily, so 
I really like Alchemy because 

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I'm generally, I'm just a fan of
developer tools that make it 

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easy for people to onboard and 
build on a platform. 

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And if I was building in an 
etherium app today, I don't know

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if I'd have the patience or the 
Skills to set up, you know the 

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node infrastructure and the apis
for my app so I can definitely 

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see myself using something like 
this to build the Prototype and 

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even take a nap into production.
So I think having more services 

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like this is a really good sign 
for the ecosystem because it 

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shows that there's a certain 
level of maturity in the space 

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and it just allows developers to
come in and start building apps 

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on aetherium without having to 
learn all of the intricacies of 

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running and maintaining 
infrastructure. 

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I do have some concerns however,
about services like these 

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creating Central points of 
failure in aetherium. 

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And this is a concern, I have 
not only with Alchemy but other 

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apis, validation Services, node 
providers in general. 

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So on one hand, I think there's 
a natural tendency to move 

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towards more services like these
because it creates a more robust

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infrastructure for the apps in 
the ecosystem. 

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And it just takes away a lot of 
overhead for developers, but on 

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the other hand, I think it would
be undesirable. 

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Herbal to end up in a situation,
where, let's say 80% or more of 

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the apps in the ecosystem, rely 
on one or two services like 

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these. 
I think that in a situation such

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as this, it would be reasonable 
to. 

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Then ask the question. 
What's the point, if most of the

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apps and services in defy were 
relying on a handful of services

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that could potentially shut down
or sensor, transactions, for 

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example. 
So, I think this is something 

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that should remain. 
On top of mind and should be 

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part of the ongoing conversation
and etherium when it comes to 

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the ecosystem that we want to 
build. 

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And I invite companies like 
Alchemy to also take part in 

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that conversation before we go 
to our interview with nikhil. 

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I'd like to tell you about a 
free webinar that will teach you

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how to get started and build 
sophisticated application on the

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platform. 
This is suitable for both 

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Enterprise developers or 
independent blockchain 

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developers. 
It's happening on November 17th 

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and I'll tell you a little bit 
more. 

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Later on during the interview. 
But for now, here's our 

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conversation with nikhil 
viswanatha. 

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We're here with Nicole 
viswanathan. 

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Thanks for joining us today. 
Thank you for having me. 

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We've been wanting to have you 
on for a little while. 

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Now, Alchemy has been in the 
space for somewhere around three

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years I want to say and recently
the company kind of came out of 

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stealth mode like for a while. 
It was, I remember it, you know,

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looking into Alchemy like in 
2018 and it seemed a bit selfie 

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and, you know, like you had 
this, like I remember there was 

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still like this, you know. 
Us to use the platform kind of 

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thing. 
And now it's like, a full-blown 

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developer platform that you can 
create an account. 

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Like I did that before during 
this call and, like, play around

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with the, with the tools and 
everything. 

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And so, yeah, tell us a bit 
about your background and how 

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you became involved in the Block
Chain space. 

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Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

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So quick background. 
So I actually grew up in the 

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small town in Texas that no 
one's ever heard of. 

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But, you know, there's no 
building over four stories tall 

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and everyone drove a pickup 
truck, he was super fun. 

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Came to Stanford. 
Did my undergrad and grad? 

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In computer science, machine 
learning, artificial 

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intelligence and have a really 
great time. 

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Absolutely loved it. 
Always knew I wanted to do small

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companies startup stuff. 
Ironically over the Summers. 

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I ended up doing the exact 
opposite which is product 

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management at Google Facebook 
and Microsoft and Head Start a 

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couple companies and college 
post-college, you know, I really

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thought about my life and I 
realized I was like what I want 

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to do had one of those, you 
know, 1/10 or 1/8 life crises 

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thing and thought about is that,
you know, what I want to do with

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my life. 
And I think, I think about my 

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life, personally, the way in 
measure is on to Accent your x 

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axis is how many people's lives,
you touch. 

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And your Y, axis is How Deeply 
do you impact their life every 

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day. 
And it's basically the number of

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people times the depth of impact
and for me, that that kind of 

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x-axis was always obvious. 
Never before in human history, 

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could you press buttons on this 
magic metal box and build 

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something that every person 
across the planet used, right? 

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And that it's so crazy that we 
live in a day and age with 

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computers would software 
internet and blockchain. 

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We can build products that 
affect everyone around the world

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and this wasn't possible. 20 
years ago, when you think about 

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the major shifts that happens in
the world. 

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You know, before 20 years ago, 
the major forces that govern our

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world were country's government 
religion, like these kind of 

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things. 
And today's technology, right? 

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Technology companies, the 
Facebook, the Google, the 

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YouTube, Instagram have a bigger
impact than essentially, any 

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country in the world. 
So for me that was all, you 

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know, from a young age I loved 
computers. 

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I knew this is what I wanted to 
do. 

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I had built a bunch of Things 
are not at this point in my 

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life, probably built like 50, 
60, different products since I 

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was in sixth grade. 
So that was just something I 

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love doing. 
I love creating. 

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I love making things and the y 
axis for me was really 

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interesting and we had, you 
know, how do you really have 

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daily impact on daily? 
Positive impact on people's 

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lives and I don't do this kind 
of rough. 

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Period post College where I 
missed all my friends. 

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I was really lonely and broken 
my long-term girlfriend which 

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starts company but it wasn't 
working out and I really thought

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about it. 
I said, you know what is The 

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number one thing that determines
your happiness on a daily basis 

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and for me that was the people I
was around, right? 

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Imagine that time when you're 
surrounded, by all these 

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incredible amazing people and 
you're just like truly happy. 

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And I said, you know, I really 
want to recreate that and if I 

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can do that for every person on 
the planet, that would be 

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amazing and everyone was like, 
you know, that's crazy, it's so 

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impossible do but if you could 
do it, that would be the best 

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thing ever. 
So we spent several years, my 

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co-founder actually my same, 
co-founder with Alchemy Joe who 

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we met at. 
Stanford teeing, the database 

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class. 
It was funny because we tear the

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database class. 
Normally, it's an easy class to 

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TA because you have like a 
hundred students really fun, 

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it's really easy that quarter. 
We just they decided to say Hey,

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what if we turn it to open it up
to anybody in the world can use,

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do the class turns out 120,000 
students, signed up for the 

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class and I remember staying up 
the night before writing code to

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integrate PDF certificates and 
all these things. 

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So the the story is the next 
quarter that became Coursera. 

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So we were Joe and I were kind 
of like the first unpaid 

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employees. 
Of course, they're so we met 

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there. 
We've been working on products 

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to make you feel like you live. 
Your friends. 

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We built a bunch of different 
products is really hard. 

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It took a long time and nothing 
was working. 

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We built this one app. 
We thought no one would use it 

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and suddenly like, it becomes a 
number one app in the app store 

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and social millions of people 
around the world from page and 

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other times, it's kind of this 
crazy story, which I'm happy to 

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go into. 
But, during that time, we had 

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seen. 
So this was around 2015 to 2017 

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and we had seen crypto for a 
really long time, and we 

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actually really believed it. 
And it was interesting because a

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couple of the guys who lived in 
our apartment complex, Couple 

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units below us were Michael and 
Jana and they started a company 

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called wire. 
And we used to all hang out and 

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we play beer, pong and party 
together. 

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And we have these like 3M 
conversations how like Bitcoin 

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was a future the world. 
And you know Joe and I like 

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totally believed in it and 
really excited about it but I 

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think there was a fundamental 
shift for us where, you know, we

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had this heart-to-heart in 2017 
and we were like, wow, like 

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we've seen this happen for a 
long time but there's a massive 

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new shift happening with the 
theorem and a theorem was really

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the game. 
For us. 

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And the reason it was the game 
changer for us was is no longer 

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digital currency, which we 
totally believed in. 

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But we had said, hey, we're 
going to dedicate Our Lives to 

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this other thing, but suddenly, 
we realized it was a new 

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paradigm in terms of 
programming. 

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It was a new fundamental 
building block. 

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Like when you think about the 
big shifts in technology over 

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the last you know 50 years you 
have the computer, the internet 

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and blockchain and the computer,
they fundamentally, give you a 

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new building block each one of 
these. 

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So computer says, hey, we're 
going to let you create 

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programs. 
The internet says we're Give you

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a new building block of instant 
connectivity. 

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You can connect with anyone 
anytime anywhere, right? 

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And what can you create with 
that, right? 

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And what blockchain does is it 
gives you a new building blocks 

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as you can have or what a 
theorem does. 

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It says you can have 
programmable money and that was 

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amazing to us. 
We said, wow, like this is going

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to change everything. 
And you know, when you think 

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about a lot of our investors 
have found it a lot of these, 

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you know, Seminole companies in 
for the internet stage, or the 

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computer age, you know, where 
this Yahoo or LinkedIn, or 

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Google like we have seen. 
We have I'd seen them kind of be

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in the right place the right 
time or said, look this another,

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massive shift if blockchain 
plays out like, we think it will

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be, this will be an internet 
scale technology. 

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We can't miss this. 
So that's kind of the Genesis of

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how we got really excited about 
it. 

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And the rest is history. 
So talk about your y-axis so 

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basically Alchemy it gives us 
blockchain develop 

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infrastructure. 
How do you figure blockchain? 

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Develop infrastructure touches 
people this deeply. 

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Absolutely, that's a great 
question. 

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So I think when I think about 
this there, when you going back 

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to the three big ships, I 
really, this is really like, my 

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mental framework, computer 
internet blockchain and they 

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actually all formed in a similar
way. 

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We're at the funded. 
Let's just look at the computer,

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it's a little hard to kind of 
visualize without a diagram. 

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Which I usually use, but just 
use your imagination for now. 

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So, at the bottom layer, the 
computer was a bunch of 

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Hardware, right? 
Was a set of protocol, so it was

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your RAM, your hard drive, your 
CPU, all the fundamental 

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components that made the 
computer, but a computer was 

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just a fancy typewriter until 
you had user applications. 

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Right at the very top layer is 
word, excel Chrome, like these 

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kind of things that enable 
computers for everyone around 

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the world to be accessible 
besides the people who like, 

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know how to write code. 
So, when you think about that, 

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Where hardware and protocol are.
And then the top layer of 

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applications, the middle layer 
is the platform layer and what 

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the platform layer does. 
So in for the computer, that was

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Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac 
OS, what it does? 

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Is it abstracts away the 
hardware and it makes it easy 

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for developers to build 
applications. 

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So now what happens is 
developers can build things. 

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So, normal users can use those 
and then once it has this 

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virtuous cycle because now users
come and they say, oh, Wow, 

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there's a lot of applications. 
Let me come use this cool thing 

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called a computer. 
So then more developers come 

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because now there's more 
applications and more users and 

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then they create more 
applications and so on and so 

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forth. 
So when you look at the 

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internet, you see the exactly 
the same thing, it's just three 

264
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layer stack. 
The bottom is HTTP FTP SMTP like

265
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the protocols that run the 
internet. 

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And we actually there was an 
internet before the World Wide 

267
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Web, right? 
But what is what is the internet

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today to us? 
It's Facebook, it's YouTube, 

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It's Google and that that top 
layer is Meyer and the 

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abstraction layer in the middle.
That was needed. 

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The developer platform layer is 
actually the web browser, right?

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And that is what abstracts away.
The underlying protocols and 

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makes it easy for developers to 
build. 

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So, similarly, in blockchain 
what we see is you have a theory

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of Bitcoin. 
You have all these other chains,

276
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right? 
And that's the bottom layer and 

277
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people are trying to build 
applications, you know, anything

278
00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:26,800
from a coinbase to Walmart doing
stuff on the blockchain to a 

279
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,600
crypto kitties to games. 
Whatever it is these 

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00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,200
applications applications can be
anything, right? 

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And the The challenges, we're 
kind of in the early days of 

282
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computer in the sense of, in the
early days, what happened, you 

283
00:13:39,108 --> 00:13:41,500
know, IBM built their own 
operating system and deck built 

284
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their own operating system and 
ALT are built their own 

285
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,800
operating system. 
Everyone had their own operating

286
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,800
system, so in, but then my 
windows came along and said, hey

287
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,300
we're going to make it easy for 
developers. 

288
00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:54,100
I'm going to standardize this so
the way we see ourselves and you

289
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,800
know obviously each technology 
is slightly different. 

290
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The internet slightly different 
from computer or slightly 

291
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,600
different from blockchain but 
fundamentally what we see 

292
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,700
ourselves as What our mission 
here is to enable the builders 

293
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:10,300
to create applications and 
provide value to users. 

294
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,400
If you think about that, chain 
of how blockchain adoption 

295
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,500
happens, it's developers, build 
applications, and users use 

296
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:19,400
those applications and get real 
value from it. 

297
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,800
And what we're seeing right now 
is it's kind of like the 1991 of

298
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,500
the internet where it's so 
difficult to build it so hard to

299
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:30,000
build and our goal as a company,
is to enable Builders by letting

300
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,600
them have the tools. 
They need to build great. 

301
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,100
Applications. 
And so, why focus on the 

302
00:14:36,100 --> 00:14:37,800
developer infrastructure and 
more? 

303
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,500
Specifically why etherium? 
Why this focus on ethereum? 

304
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:43,900
When there's so many other 
blockchains out there? 

305
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,200
Absolutely, that's a great 
question. 

306
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,900
So, let me answer the first 
question first. 

307
00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:53,600
So why developer infrastructure?
So, going back to the, at the 

308
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,900
end of the day? 
What do we want out of 

309
00:14:55,908 --> 00:14:57,700
blockchain? 
What is the purpose of watching 

310
00:14:57,700 --> 00:14:59,500
the purpose of any new 
technology? 

311
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:01,900
Well, I guess scientists think. 
It's interesting just for the 

312
00:15:01,908 --> 00:15:05,400
hell of it, but the Reason that 
new technology exists is to 

313
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,700
provide value to people around 
the world and enable them to do 

314
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,100
new things that we're never 
possible before. 

315
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,700
And this is a little bit of a 
side track, but one of my main 

316
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,600
thoughts around, adoption of 
blockchain is we will know that 

317
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,200
blockchain is successfully 
adopted once the word blockchain

318
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,800
and crypto is no longer used, 
right? 

319
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,500
And let me explain that. 
So, when you go to dinner, you 

320
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,000
don't say, oh, you know, I use 
this internet app to call a car 

321
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,600
to get me here, and I'm using a 
computer app, too. 

322
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:35,400
Swipe my credit card and pay, 
right? 

323
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,800
You just say like no I call an 
Uber and then I, you know, just 

324
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,600
pay to Apple pay or swipe my 
card. 

325
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:44,400
And once there is utility that 
is provided, that is the 

326
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,700
technology is irrelevant. 
We have to get the point where 

327
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,200
if we were mentioning blockchain
in the product name, then it's 

328
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,300
not valuable because it's not a 
new technology. 

329
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:55,400
So we need to get to the point 
where the technology and the 

330
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,600
product value from that is the 
value that the user gets and 

331
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,800
it's not. 
I'm using this because it's 

332
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,200
watching. 
So the second question is, how 

333
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,900
do we actually get there? 
How do we get to a state where 

334
00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:10,100
there's tremendous value 
provided by blockchain to people

335
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:12,400
around the world which all of us
obviously believe in because 

336
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,200
that's why we're here. 
And the answer to that is going 

337
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,400
back to that chain developers 
build applications and those use

338
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,900
it users use applications and 
the challenges that first link 

339
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:28,800
in that chain is a critical 
piece because it's almost today.

340
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,400
Imagine trying to build a 
skyscraper with a hammer and a 

341
00:16:31,408 --> 00:16:35,800
shovel that's the state of the 
Sick where it's so difficult to 

342
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,500
build applications and our goal 
is saying, hey, you know, 

343
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:40,500
instead of a hammer shovel if 
you want to build an Empire 

344
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,800
State Building and we give you a
crane, we give you a bulldozer, 

345
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,400
we give you, I love construction
equipment. 

346
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,200
So I know a lot of these names 
but we will give you the power 

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00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,500
tools and the construction 
equipment needed to create the 

348
00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:55,400
applications. 
And in the reason that we chose 

349
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,800
this as we said this is the 
single most important value. 

350
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,400
Add we can do to the ecosystem 
and help push all the ecosystem 

351
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,400
forward and then the second 
question is, why it Miriam and 

352
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,000
the answer is that's where the 
majority of developers are and 

353
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,000
Alchemy will support and is in 
the process of supporting any 

354
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,700
chain that has a lot of 
developer adoption because our 

355
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,500
goal is to push for the entire 
ecosystem. 

356
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:20,500
We're not we don't take 
alliances on certain trains. 

357
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,000
Our goal is saying people want 
to create things with 

358
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,900
blockchain. 
How do we make that happen and 

359
00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:29,500
how do we help the ecosystem in 
the builders algorithms? 

360
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:32,400
Running a free webinar to teach 
developers how they can use the 

361
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,500
platform to build sophisticated.
Applications for use cases, like

362
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,400
crowdfunding asset tokenization 
Supply Chain management. 

363
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,300
And even gaming applications, 
you'll learn how to get started 

364
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:45,600
with the command line, tools and
use the SDK and rest apis. 

365
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:48,500
You'll also learn about the Al 
Gore and Foundations grant 

366
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,900
program and additional funding 
opportunities. 

367
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:53,000
That the AL Grand ecosystem has 
to offer. 

368
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,400
So if you're building on a 
blockchain protocol, that has 

369
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,100
unfeasibly high transaction fees
and doesn't provide the speed 

370
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:03,600
you need, or if you are for a 
large Enterprise or financial 

371
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:05,800
Ian and are interested in 
learning how to build 

372
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,600
applications that can integrate 
in your current technology stack

373
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,400
or if you have no blockchain 
experience at all and just are 

374
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,700
looking to take that first step 
into something new. 

375
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:15,500
Well, this webinar could be for 
you. 

376
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,000
Visit aljazeera.com, epicenter 
sign up. 

377
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:21,900
Once again, it's free and it's 
happening on November 17th. 

378
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,200
But if you're listening to this 
after that date, no worries. 

379
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:27,600
You can still go to that page 
and watch the replay. 

380
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,200
We'd like to thank Al Gore and 
for those support of the 

381
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,500
podcast. 
So let's talk about what Acme 

382
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:38,500
actually offers to devs. 
It's any theorem API. 

383
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:41,900
What does that mean? 
As someone who's never built an 

384
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,300
app before? 
What does it mean to me? 

385
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,200
Absolutely, that's a great 
question. 

386
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:48,300
So, Alchemy has a suite of 
products that we offer? 

387
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:50,900
Let me let me talk about each 
one really quickly. 

388
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:55,500
So fundamentally kind of backing
up again, fundamentally anything

389
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:57,700
that's difficult for developers.
We want to make that easy. 

390
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,900
Like that is our guiding vision 
and that is we want to enable 

391
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:02,300
developers to build. 
On your applications. 

392
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:04,300
They couldn't vote before 
because it was too difficult, 

393
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:05,300
period. 
Full stop. 

394
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,500
And we will do whatever it takes
to make that happen. 

395
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,900
The actual product line. 
So the first challenge we had, 

396
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,300
so we were build it. 
So Joe and I, you know, have 

397
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,500
coded every single day for last.
Call it like 17 years or life 

398
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,600
over team kind of various 
somewhere. 

399
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,000
Very, very senior Engineers who 
just built a lot of products and

400
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,600
built worked as a bunch of 
different companies. 

401
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,500
So we had seen firsthand what 
tools are in other Industries. 

402
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,200
When we started building block 
chain, we were building other 

403
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,200
products and was just so 
difficult. 

404
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,400
And we had built this like hedge
fund machine learning data, 

405
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,900
science, platform, that powered 
power assets for four billion 

406
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,200
dollars in assets for our 
customers. 

407
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,200
And we're like, wow. 
It is so difficult to build in 

408
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,600
this space and so what we did is
we actually ended up talking to 

409
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,300
about, I think at the time about
80 different customers and we 

410
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:57,900
said, hey we want, what are your
challenges? 

411
00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:59,800
Because we have this whole list 
of challenges and we had built 

412
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,000
as crazy infrastructure and 
house that no one else in the 

413
00:20:03,008 --> 00:20:05,200
world. 
Had that enabled us to find out 

414
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,000
data and machine learning that 
basically was was proprietary to

415
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,400
us. 
And we said look we can just 

416
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,500
open this up to everyone but 
rather than just opening up. 

417
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,800
How do we actually find out 
what's most value to people? 

418
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,900
So the first challenge that 
people had that unanimously, 

419
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,200
that every single, I think, out 
of the 80 people, we emailed and

420
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,300
asked, I think about probably 
seventy seven of them said, this

421
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:28,600
was the number one problem, so 
who's very clear to us? 

422
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,100
And that number one problem was,
it's very difficult to Rotten 

423
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,500
node infrastructure for 
blockchains right? 

424
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,200
And and I think I think also the
community does, people don't 

425
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,000
actually realize like the Gap in
parody teams. 

426
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,500
Have contributed so much to it 
theorem and the community, 

427
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:48,200
actually owes them a huge debt 
of gratitude because these 

428
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,500
people are single-handedly 
building the tools that power 

429
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,200
all the things behind the 
scenes, right? 

430
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,300
So I think, I think that was the
first thing we were very 

431
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:56,400
impressed and they're small 
teams. 

432
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,300
These are not big teams of these
are not. 

433
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:00,900
If you think of like the number 
of people who work on Apache or 

434
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:02,400
than other people, Work on my 
SQL. 

435
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,800
These are like order of 
magnitudes larger than the teams

436
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,600
that work on getting Perry. 
So I think first off, they don't

437
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,500
like an incredible job, the 
research they have. 

438
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,900
The second thing is, it's very 
difficult to run blockchain 

439
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:15,100
infrastructure. 
So let me give you. 

440
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:18,000
Let me give you like a quick 
example and stop me if this 

441
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,900
getting a little bit too 
technical but let me give just 

442
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:24,700
one example. 
So In traditional web, let's say

443
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,500
your Facebook and you have one 
web server that is sending 

444
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,300
traffic that is serving traffic 
for let's say you have 100 

445
00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:34,100
users. 
On Facebook suddenly now 

446
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:36,900
Facebook, you know, let's say 
Facebook takes off and you have 

447
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:38,600
a million users. 
What do you do? 

448
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,600
So, you actually just spin up, 
more web servers, more computers

449
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,600
to hand to handle that traffic 
and then you split traffic 

450
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,300
across all of those, right? 
And the problem is you can't do 

451
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,400
that in blockchain. 
So let's go through blockchains.

452
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,800
An example, let's say You're 
Building crypto kitties and you 

453
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,200
know crypto kitties has one web 
server. 

454
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,100
One node that's running and node
is equivalent blockchain server.

455
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:02,700
So now suddenly imagine you A 
bunch of traffic and a bunch of 

456
00:22:02,708 --> 00:22:05,200
people joining. 
So now you say, okay let's just 

457
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,700
spin up 10 more nodes. 
The problem is you can't 

458
00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:11,400
actually just split traffic 
across those and let me explain,

459
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,100
why? 
So as a user what will happen, 

460
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,900
I'll say okay I'm going to buy 
this crypto Kitty and now that 

461
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,500
that transaction gets routed to 
know day, right. 

462
00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:22,500
But now you hit refresh and say,
oh I'm going to go view this 

463
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:25,500
other cap, this time your and 
you want to get the you want to 

464
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,000
see all the cats. 
Um, this time you request gets 

465
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,400
routed to node B and 
fundamentally blockchains RDC. 

466
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:34,700
Tries Network and they all don't
have the same information at the

467
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:38,300
same time, eventually everyone 
will agree on the same blocks 

468
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:40,700
that happened. 
But at any given point in time, 

469
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:44,400
the most recent information is 
actually not agreed upon by 

470
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,300
everyone in the network. 
So what happens is the user to 

471
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,700
the user, they hit refresh and 
they will look at their cat list

472
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,300
and it looks them like their 
cats, not there and their 

473
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,200
money's gone. 
So then they freak out and 

474
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,700
think. 
Whoa, what just happened, which 

475
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,300
is not actually the case, the 
thing is just the transaction 

476
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:01,400
hasn't propagated to the other 
node in the network. 

477
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,400
Work. 
So the kind of high level of 

478
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,800
what that means is you can't 
horizontally, scale 

479
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,300
infrastructure and blockchain 
and that, that is how it's done 

480
00:23:10,308 --> 00:23:13,500
in every other industry. 
So we what we did is we sat down

481
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,100
and we said, look notes are 
great if you're serving, kind of

482
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,300
like a very light a pin for us, 
we said, look, we want to be 

483
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:23,500
able to scale to Enterprise 
infrastructure and provide the 

484
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:25,400
scalability. 
And then there's a whole Suite 

485
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,800
of other challenges that that 
people have with nodes. 

486
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,300
So we said, look, we want to 
make this easy. 

487
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,400
So we actually sat down I built 
a new type of decentralized 

488
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,500
infrastructure from scratch. 
It took years of work for us to 

489
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,400
build this and it was the 
product of us having to build 

490
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,000
this internally for ourselves 
first in. 

491
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:46,100
So we call it super node, it is 
it is a completely new type of 

492
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:48,600
decentralized architecture that 
we've built. 

493
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,800
That enables extreme reliability
infinite scalability. 

494
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,700
So it's almost like an AWS style
thing. 

495
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,400
Now where before if you had more
traffic, you know, you need to 

496
00:23:57,408 --> 00:24:00,100
spend weeks spinning up a new 
node, depending on the type of 

497
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:01,700
note. 
So if you have They have 

498
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:03,100
surgery, traffic, you're just 
hose. 

499
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:04,700
You can just spin up a new note 
on demand. 

500
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:07,400
So now, you have eight of 
developers have an AWS like 

501
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,500
capacity, where they can just 
infinitely scale, it, it will 

502
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,900
handles all the data correctness
and it handles a bunch of other 

503
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,800
things around that. 
Can you become a little bit more

504
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,700
technical here? 
What exactly is this 

505
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,800
decentralized service that 
you've built? 

506
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,600
So basically, do you just run 
your own death and opening 

507
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,500
theorem notes in the background 
and kind of serve that to the 

508
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:34,700
person who caused the API. 
What exactly does your system in

509
00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:35,900
head? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

510
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:37,700
Great question. 
So we have a little bit of a 

511
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:40,400
diagram on our website. 
You can check it out, but the 

512
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,600
short answer is no, so kind of 
conceptually what we do. 

513
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Is we had to build custom 
decentralized data stores, for 

514
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,300
every specific type of data that
is stored in a node. 

515
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,500
So for example, so for 
transactions, you can query 

516
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:59,600
transactions and a certain way 
on the Node and we take that 

517
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,400
data and design a custom data 
store for that data, that allows

518
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,100
you to say right now, maybe. 
I don't know. 

519
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,700
You can say, hey, get me 
transactions and in this block, 

520
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:11,600
but one thing in terms of 
supernote, what it lets you do 

521
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,200
is now you can say get me all 
the transactions for this 

522
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,000
address, which is Not possible 
on an actual note, right? 

523
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,000
And be and by designing custom 
data structures for each 

524
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,500
specific type of data that's on 
a node. 

525
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,300
We basically we interact with 
nodes to pull data off. 

526
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,600
But then we are own 
decentralized, infrastructure 

527
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,500
serves and provides the data 
that people and provides 

528
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,100
extended provides an additional 
query layer on top of the 

529
00:25:36,108 --> 00:25:38,300
etherium. 
That's extended beyond what is 

530
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:41,400
normal, okay, so you better 
generalized indexer the said it,

531
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:45,100
mmm, no, it's not an indexer in 
the sense that, you know, No, 

532
00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:47,700
we're just storing this in a 
database and then we provide 

533
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,500
information. 
We provide access to it in 

534
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,700
different ways. 
It's truly that let me give a 

535
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:55,000
good example. 
So basically think think about 

536
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,700
this right? 
When you're running. 

537
00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:58,800
If you want to run a database on
your own computer, let's say 

538
00:25:58,808 --> 00:26:00,700
you're building a website you 
want to run my sequin your own 

539
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,500
computer that's a database, 
right? 

540
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:06,000
And then Google uses a database 
to store the entire web and to 

541
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,600
index the whole web, right? 
So like technically that's still

542
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,100
a database but the technology is
like fundamentally very 

543
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,000
different and kind of similar 
here you can run a node yourself

544
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,000
but the technology that Hugo is 
completely different. 

545
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,700
It's a new type of indexing and 
storing and serving method. 

546
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,200
That's kind of akin to how a 
Google or Facebook would store 

547
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,600
insert their data. 
Can you be a little bit more 

548
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,900
explicit about how it's 
different when you say it's 

549
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:33,800
completely different? 
Yeah, let me, let me give you, 

550
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,700
let me give like one concrete 
example. 

551
00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:39,400
So when I say it's completely 
different, the reason it's 

552
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,700
completely different is the type
of data structures that we use 

553
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:44,600
to store each type of data is 
completely different. 

554
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,400
So for Example. 
So, on a node you can query 

555
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,700
etherium locks. 
So you can get a certain range 

556
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:51,300
of logs. 
If you ask for more than that 

557
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,500
range, it'll crash. 
And you can only query in the 

558
00:26:53,508 --> 00:26:55,100
kind of like, certain type of 
patterns. 

559
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,600
So what we did is we said, look,
we're going to use to. 

560
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,900
So for this, for our logs, in 
particular, we use a Time series

561
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:04,800
data base and then we also use 
another indexing method to store

562
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,900
the actual information. 
So what that lets us do and we. 

563
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:11,200
So we basically like store it 
and serve it in a different way 

564
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:16,000
and what that lets us do is now,
you know, we can so We built a 

565
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,500
whole system so kind of like 
there's a node right. 

566
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:23,100
We built a whole system just 
around storing and serving logs 

567
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,300
and so now online is you can 
start, you can query about I'm 

568
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,200
not sure the exact numbers here 
but roughly about 10 times, the 

569
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,800
range of what you could query on
a theorem node, you can query on

570
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,500
Alchemy. 
So what it does is it gives 

571
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:37,300
developers extended 
functionality. 

572
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,300
So that now because we build 
this custom data source for 

573
00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,100
logs, they can query things that
they weren't possible before. 

574
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Kind of back to the original 
question supernote is just one 

575
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,100
piece of developer platform. 
So this this was the core 

576
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:52,200
technology that we worked on for
many, many years to kind of 

577
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,400
really perfect this and make it 
really, really good. 

578
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,600
And then on top of that, we have
for other products. 

579
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,900
So one is alchemy build. 
So how can we build is a suite 

580
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:05,300
of developer tools that enable 
debugging crash reporting. 

581
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,200
All the tasks that are you would
do in traditional web 

582
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,700
development. 
All the tools that you need you,

583
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:14,800
those don't exist in blockchain 
and we built Suite of tools to 

584
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,200
enable developers to debug 
problems faster. 

585
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,100
So for example, one one of our 
users his in Hawaii he had a 

586
00:28:21,108 --> 00:28:24,700
rogue server that was just 
spinning and sending a bunch of 

587
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:26,300
transactions that he didn't even
realize. 

588
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,100
So using these tools, these 
visualization tools, he was able

589
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:31,800
to find that instead of down 
whereas it had been running for 

590
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,500
weeks and he just didn't even 
realize or another example was 

591
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,700
there are certain kind of bugs 
that take days to debug and with

592
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,500
the correct insights you can you
can debug it in under 15 

593
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:43,600
minutes. 
So that's the second. 

594
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:45,400
Peace. 
Then there's Alchemy Monitor and

595
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,900
what Alchemy monitor does is 
provide detailed insights and 

596
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:53,100
analytics for the blockchain. 
And it captures things that are 

597
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:55,500
not possible through a 
traditional Google analytics. 

598
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,600
Or, you know, those kind of 
tools because these are kind of 

599
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,600
blockchain specific and then the
last piece is alchemy notify. 

600
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,100
Actually to Mark, Alchemy notify
right. 

601
00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:08,100
Now, when you think about a 
normal app, if you use Instagram

602
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:10,400
or use Facebook, you get 
notifications when things 

603
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,700
happen. 
When someone likes your photo 

604
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:15,100
and someone comments on your 
wall, Blockchain the challenges.

605
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:17,900
These events are not exposed by 
nodes. 

606
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:22,100
So for example, when an address 
receives currency like, let's 

607
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,300
say and you send me a theorem 
that is not an event that the 

608
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:30,100
node sends and says, hey, you 
know, this wallet received five 

609
00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:33,900
dollars or five a teeth. 
So what we do is we built a 

610
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,800
notification system that watches
the blockchain for all these 

611
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,300
types of events and stores them 
and it provides an API and the 

612
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:44,600
end outcome is the user. 
Now, Now, you can when you use 

613
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,400
apps, you can get notifications 
on important events in that 

614
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,800
wasn't possible before. 
The last thing we do is we 

615
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,800
actually think of our support as
a products, we do real-time 

616
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,600
Global support for all of our 
customers, 24/7 around the 

617
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,600
world. 
And it's not that you're 

618
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,400
talking, this poor person, you 
actually talk to the core 

619
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,200
Engineers that built the 
product. 

620
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,700
So that, that for us, is a 
really key part of alchemy 

621
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,300
experience. 
So just to sum up the the 

622
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:08,700
product lines, you have the 
super node which is the theorem 

623
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,000
API and we'll get a little bit 
more into that in a minute. 

624
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,600
There's the developer tools that
allows it. 

625
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,200
Opportu like prototype and debug
in this sort of thing. 

626
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:18,800
There's the monitoring tools 
that allows you to understand, 

627
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,400
sort of, like, your users data 
Etc. 

628
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,100
And then there's this 
notification thing which I think

629
00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:24,300
is kind of cool. 
We're like, let's say you have, 

630
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,500
you know, your your building 
wallet, for example, you'd like 

631
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:32,400
for your users to receive 
notifications on like blockchain

632
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,400
events, right? 
So, like on transaction received

633
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,900
or on transaction, it's like 
complete, or like, some smart 

634
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,700
contract action or some like 
that, then that user can receive

635
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,200
a notification. 
I'd like to spend A little more 

636
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,000
time on the supernote thing, you
know, let's suppose we have a 

637
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,000
someone who's building etherium 
smart contracts and they've 

638
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,400
spent up their own node and 
they're using this one endpoint 

639
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,900
to build and deploy their third 
app. 

640
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:02,900
Like what specifically are the 
kinds of things that they're 

641
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,500
going to be able to do with the 
super node? 

642
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,100
And what kinds of data are they 
going to be able to pull from 

643
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,000
that API? 
That they're not that they're 

644
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,500
currently not able to get with 
you know the the RPC calls that 

645
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:15,600
they Back to the guests, note. 
Absolutely. 

646
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,300
That's a great question and that
breaks down into kind of four 

647
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:22,200
key benefits that people the 
reason that people use super 

648
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,900
node. 
So the first one is on average, 

649
00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:27,900
it depends on the size of your 
project and the size of your 

650
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:30,400
team. 
But on average people spend 

651
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,900
about a quarter of an engineer's
time to to Engineers time 

652
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:38,500
maintaining and in Basin caring 
for nodes and typically to build

653
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:41,600
out a reliable note 
infrastructure system that even 

654
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,200
if it doesn't have data 
correctness in these other 

655
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,600
properties, That we talked 
about, you need three to six 

656
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,000
months, really make it hard and 
that is what we've seen from 

657
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,900
larger customers. 
So the number one reason that 

658
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,900
people use us is they don't have
to think about it and it just 

659
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,100
works like it's Ultra reliable 
and it's just it's just always 

660
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:59,700
up. 
It's kind of like why you'd use 

661
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:02,400
AWS instead of running your own 
server, it just, it just works. 

662
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,100
So you don't have to upgrade the
hard drive, you don't have to 

663
00:32:04,100 --> 00:32:05,800
wait for crashes. 
It doesn't go down. 

664
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,000
So that's it, you know, if your 
internet shuts down you don't go

665
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,400
down. 
Like that's that's the first 

666
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,500
thing. 
The second thing is the 

667
00:32:11,508 --> 00:32:15,600
scalability that we talked about
the He says suddenly, you know, 

668
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,800
let's say our traffic doubles. 
What happens if you're running 

669
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,500
around note, you need a sink, a 
new node from scratch and you 

670
00:32:20,508 --> 00:32:22,500
need to split traffic over and 
we already talked about the 

671
00:32:22,508 --> 00:32:25,700
problems with load balancing. 
But thinking that new node at 

672
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:29,600
minimum, minimum takes many, 
many, many, many hours. 

673
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,700
And a lot of times it takes 
weeks, right? 

674
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:33,100
Depending on the type of dog you
have. 

675
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,200
So that's scalability is super 
important. 

676
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:40,800
The other thing is the, the 
query apis so right now, so we 

677
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,100
kind of have two options. 
Number one is you can you can 

678
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,000
just use the standard, a theorem
apis. 

679
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,600
We give little bit extended 
functionality on that. 

680
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,900
So you can query a broader range
of logs, you can query Transit 

681
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,400
things in certain ways. 
I kind of an extended capacity 

682
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,600
that you couldn't before. 
And then the second piece of 

683
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,500
that is, we actually provide a 
suite of higher level apis on 

684
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:05,200
top of the theorem that are an 
extra query layer on top. 

685
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,200
So for example, let me talk you 
through a couple of these. 

686
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:10,500
So one is let's say you want to 
do you have an address and you 

687
00:33:10,508 --> 00:33:12,200
want to get all the tokens in 
that address that? 

688
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,800
That token, that that address 
fault that's actually not an 

689
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,100
etherium query. 
You can make you have to check 

690
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:20,600
every smart contract that you. 
Let's say, let's say there's a 

691
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,900
thousand roughly 1,000 popular 
tokens, that people might hold, 

692
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:25,800
right? 
You have to go to every single 

693
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,700
smart contract for each token 
and say hey does you know 

694
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:34,100
Sebastian's address have 0x 
know? 

695
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,900
Okay. 
Does Sebastian's address have 

696
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:37,000
auger? 
No. 

697
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,500
Okay. 
Just Sebastian's address have 

698
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:40,000
Khyber. 
Oh yeah, it has some Cairo. 

699
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,600
Okay, cool. 
So you have to make 1,000 

700
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,200
queries just Just to get the 
token balance for a single 

701
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,700
address, right? 
And what we did is we said okay 

702
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,500
obviously this is not feasible 
for any kind of real time wall 

703
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:51,800
or anything like that. 
So we need to build a system 

704
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,700
where we can they can give us an
address and we'll give them all 

705
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:56,300
the tokens based on that 
address, right? 

706
00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:59,000
So that's an example of one of 
the higher level apis and like 

707
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400
that, you know the transaction 
history thing I was talking 

708
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,000
about and there's several of the
apis we power, but the goal here

709
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,400
is take a call thing, that 
shouldn't be complicated and we 

710
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,100
will make that really easy for 
Developers. 

711
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,000
So Nicholas, how does Acme kind 
of set itself? 

712
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Apart from developer products 
that were out there when you 

713
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,400
guys started. 
So I'm thinking of in fuhrer, 

714
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,800
truffle Alessio all of these 
products. 

715
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,300
How is Acme better? 
Yeah, it's a good question. 

716
00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:29,400
I think like all of these are 
like fantastic products in and I

717
00:34:29,408 --> 00:34:33,400
really like one of our core 
philosophies is we don't really 

718
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,500
think about other people's 
competition because we're here 

719
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:39,400
to expand the space the market 
as a whole is very small for 

720
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,500
crypto right there. 
No 10 billion dollar revenue or 

721
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:45,300
100 billion dollar Revenue 
companies in Vegas. 

722
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:47,300
It's not many hundred billion 
dollar companies regardless, 

723
00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:51,699
but, you know, our goal really 
is to help expand the space and 

724
00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:55,100
we will do whatever we can to 
help push Developers for and we 

725
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:57,900
love it when other people, you 
know, build great tools for the 

726
00:34:57,908 --> 00:35:00,900
space. 
So that to us is this is very 

727
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:03,000
collaborative. 
And we are here to we're all 

728
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,300
here to expand the ecosystem and
I think all of the companies 

729
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:09,100
that you mentioned, have served 
really great purposes for 

730
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:12,900
different parts. 
The developer experience, our 

731
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,500
core focus and Alchemy is we 
want to help people. 

732
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:19,500
And, you know, before we were 
mostly focused on Enterprises 

733
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:22,100
and large companies. 
And now recently, as you guys 

734
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,000
mentioned, we just opened up to 
self-serve. 

735
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,500
So anybody now can sign up and 
use alchemy in our goal, is, 

736
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,800
when you are building a product,
we want to really provide the 

737
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,900
tools, you need to get started. 
And then also the tools, you 

738
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:38,900
need to really scale and have a 
stable surface. 

739
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:43,700
So for example, Most of the 
tools we provide we build things

740
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,400
when they are not available in 
other places and when they are 

741
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,400
available in other places like a
truffle. 

742
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,400
I think it's a great example. 
We don't build, we don't build 

743
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,600
what truffle does and when 
people ask us, we say go to 

744
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,500
truffle, we think they're great.
So our tool set is complimentary

745
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:00,600
and that way and we focus on the
areas that we think are are not 

746
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,200
surprised now. 
So let's talk about the note 

747
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,800
infrastructure business because 
this is this is a business that 

748
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,800
I've sort of Industry that I can
find kind of fascinating here 

749
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,600
because I think there's a lot of
implications for the broader 

750
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,100
ecosystem but also maybe some 
think some risks as well. 

751
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:22,700
If we look at sort of like the 
the ethos of crypto you talked 

752
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:26,500
earlier about AWS and how AWS 
scales, the web. 

753
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,200
I think that a lot of people 
Smiles that work in the space, 

754
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,900
the way that we should scale 
crypto. 

755
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:36,900
Be shouldn't resemble that you 
know like 141 but we'll get into

756
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,100
a little bit of that in a second
as the ecosystem murderers like 

757
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:45,200
there's already different layers
in this in this infrastructure 

758
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,200
stack. 
So you know you have companies 

759
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,400
like alchemy that are providing 
apis for aetherium. 

760
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,800
You have other companies in the 
space or doing more node as a 

761
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,100
service where you spin up your 
own node and they provide you 

762
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:02,100
perhaps with some apis on top as
well. 

763
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,400
Then there's some other layers 
in that stack that are more 

764
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,300
geared towards validation 
services. 

765
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:08,700
So I'm talking about companies 
like bison. 

766
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:13,700
Trails skills here in France 
offer validator as a service or 

767
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,400
knows that the service as you 
consume mature. 

768
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,900
As you see, these types of 
companies further 

769
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:22,100
differentiating this themselves 
or being more and more 

770
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:23,600
Consolidated. 
I guess. 

771
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,700
My question there is, you do 
see, Alchemy providing also 

772
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:31,000
validation as a service in the 
future with all the 

773
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,100
infrastructure that you've 
built. 

774
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,800
I'm sure would be fairly easy, 
you know, set that up for, for 

775
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,100
customers, is that a future 
towards which you're tending? 

776
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:43,200
That's a great question. 
So, I think all of these 

777
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,500
different types of services, 
provide, really distinct pieces 

778
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,800
of value. 
And I think added glance, it can

779
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,100
look like they're pretty 
similar, but when you say 

780
00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:55,700
running a note, is a service 
running, validator running, 

781
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:59,400
develop a developer platform, 
they're actually very different 

782
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,100
businesses at their core and 
they're very they serve. 

783
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,100
Different markets. 
So, like all the companies you 

784
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:08,200
named, we have zero overlap in 
terms of customer base, with any

785
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,200
of those companies. 
Like, we've never had a company 

786
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,700
say, oh, we're deciding between 
you and this other company, 

787
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,000
right? 
So one of the really interesting

788
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,100
things like our and actually 
many of those companies that you

789
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:21,800
named actually do compete with 
each other. 

790
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,100
We're just a little bit separate
and for us like our guiding 

791
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,200
North Star is how do we provide 
a great developer experience and

792
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:30,500
how do we make it easier for 
people to build blockchain 

793
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,100
products? 
And that is what we live? 

794
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,100
Weeee will we sleep and we 
breathe every single day, you 

795
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:37,900
know, we right now we parenting 
or public. 

796
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,500
Stats are about 70% topic, 
Theory and applications, we 

797
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:43,900
power, the majority defy seven, 
a half billion a year on 

798
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,800
transactions in 99 percent of 
countries of the world. 

799
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,700
And the only way we've been able
do that is by having laser focus

800
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:53,600
as of this point in time 
developers don't need 

801
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:55,200
validation. 
Like that's not you know 

802
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,900
validation staking that's not 
something that developers want 

803
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,800
in the future who knows? 
Like at least as far as I can 

804
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,300
see that. 
It doesn't seem to be something,

805
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,300
our focus is on the developer 
tooling. 

806
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:08,200
How do we build better better 
analytics? 

807
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:09,800
How do we build better 
debuggers? 

808
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,800
How do we build better kind of 
the fundamental construction 

809
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,300
equipment that developers need? 
And that's our laser focus. 

810
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,900
Will we never do it? 
I don't think I can say that 

811
00:39:17,908 --> 00:39:21,300
because I can't predict the 
future and if I could I would 

812
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,000
definitely know which chains 
going to win. 

813
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,000
But my focus our focus at 
Alchemy is just laser focus on 

814
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,500
the developer and say anything 
we can do to make that 

815
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,200
experience better. 
That's what we care about. 

816
00:39:32,207 --> 00:39:35,600
And that's where you want. 
And as of right now, it seems as

817
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,100
far as we can see Ford. 
It's very much on the same path 

818
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:41,500
that we're been and continue 
heads down. 

819
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:43,300
Working on that. 
Hmm. 

820
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,800
I mean, do you think it's 
possible though? 

821
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,000
Fuck me like perhaps, you know, 
it's not on your road map, but 

822
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:53,100
do you think that, you know, if 
you look at the way other 

823
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:56,000
Industries, have Consolidated, 
you know, if you look at a 

824
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,100
company like AWS, or, or Azure, 
and all the types of services 

825
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:03,400
that these companies offer 
within the Web space, right? 

826
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:07,500
As Alchemy grows and becomes. 
Hopefully like a massive player 

827
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:09,000
in the space and a very 
successful one. 

828
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:12,300
Do you think that it's possible 
for Alchemy to start providing 

829
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:15,500
also those other building blocks
that make up the infrastructure 

830
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:18,300
that powers defy, not just the 
notes themselves but you know, 

831
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:22,100
validating Services, perhaps 
other types of services as well.

832
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,400
Yeah. 
Okay, so that is really a 

833
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,200
question, you know, as we grow 
do, we expand into those areas, 

834
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,000
I think, fundamentally it boils 
down to who's your target to 

835
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,000
choose your target market in, 
who's your customer? 

836
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,900
And right now, the customer is 
for all the companies that 

837
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:39,300
you've described are kind of 
like funds and people who are 

838
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,000
staking and people who have 
assets that they want to earn 

839
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,200
interest on, right? 
And it right now, our customer 

840
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,600
is the developer, the engineer 
at the people who are building 

841
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,100
things as far as I can see. 
And you write a lot of those 

842
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:53,400
companies that you mentioned 
like are in direct competition 

843
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,400
are going for same market and 
it's, it's very lucrative market

844
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,200
so happy for them for us, you 
know, our, our core Focus, Is 

845
00:41:02,207 --> 00:41:06,000
developer, as of the current 
present moment. 

846
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:09,100
We don't see developers. 
We don't see, like a developer, 

847
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:11,700
a core action of the developers 
is not necessary that they need 

848
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:13,700
a steak, maybe for their own 
personal assets, but that's not 

849
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:15,000
like a core thing that they 
need. 

850
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,300
Right now. 
If that is the case, let's say, 

851
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:21,400
crypto involves in a way that 
developers need mechanisms to be

852
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,700
able to stay gasps. 
It's in order to build things, 

853
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,300
sure, maybe will support it 
then, but I think the thing I 

854
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:30,600
can very confidently say right 
now is, we are not trying to go 

855
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,000
and build tools. 
For a hedge fund to stake their 

856
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,400
assets. 
That's not like our Core 

857
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,200
Business. 
Our Core Business is whatever 

858
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,900
developers need. 
So in the sense that developers 

859
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,900
in the future crypto pivoting 
and enabling developers do that,

860
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:46,400
we would definitely support that
if that's not the case where 

861
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,200
we're going to stick to helping 
developers. 

862
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,400
Okay? 
Just for the listener. 

863
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,400
So currently you are a 
subscription service. 

864
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,100
So basically I pay a flat fee 
and then I get to make. 

865
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:59,500
I mean it's a tiered 
subscription service but I got 

866
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:03,600
to make a number of API calls. 
What are you currently do with 

867
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,900
the data that the data tray that
the user leaves? 

868
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,200
If I connect a service and they 
make an API call it, you can 

869
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,200
make the connection between my 
IP address and my contract keys,

870
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,800
I hold and the kind of 
interactions I engage in which 

871
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,300
is potentially extremely 
valuable information. 

872
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:25,600
So do data mining that do you 
save that, what's your, what's 

873
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,200
your commitment to use a data? 
So one of the really nice things

874
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,500
of our business, which I'm very 
glad about because You know like

875
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:37,700
the legal diligence down on us 
is we so fundamentally we don't 

876
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:40,200
store any private Keys. 
We've actually people have asked

877
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,300
us a lot like can you optimize 
my transactions? 

878
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:44,300
And can you start private keys 
were like, no, we're not going 

879
00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:47,200
to touch that because that's a 
whole another issue when we 

880
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,900
start controlling, use this one.
So, in terms of funds, we have 

881
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,300
no axis. 
I think, I think the actually, 

882
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:55,900
let me give you a quick model of
like, a mental model of how you 

883
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:58,600
can think about. 
This is we are a pipe to the 

884
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,000
blockchain. 
So there's a blockchain here and

885
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,400
there's a user here. 
The user needs to take a 

886
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,300
packaged piece of data and put 
it on the blockchain. 

887
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:10,000
And we're kind of like a pipe or
a good fast, reliable pipe, But 

888
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,800
ultimately, were a pipe to the 
blockchain. 

889
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Right. 
Exactly. 

890
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,200
But you your pipe, that kind of 
knows what traffic goes through 

891
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,100
it. 
I never thought that you guys 

892
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:21,500
kept private keys or whatever. 
I'm totally aware of that. 

893
00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:25,100
But basically you being able to 
make the connection between my 

894
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,800
IP address and the information 
that I query and the 

895
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,000
transactions I sent that is 
potentially super valuable no. 

896
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:33,800
Yep. 
That so that's very question. 

897
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,400
The question is like we have IP 
address and and this package of 

898
00:43:37,408 --> 00:43:40,100
data. 
So two parts that answer. 

899
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:42,900
So that. 
So the first part is when the 

900
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:45,200
transactions are all public so 
there's no kind of secret 

901
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,000
information. 
There, we don't know in terms of

902
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,800
broadcasting transaction, in 
terms of the IP address, that is

903
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,400
the only piece of data that we 
do have. 

904
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,700
It's like, okay, your IP address
IP address can be spoofed, it 

905
00:43:54,707 --> 00:43:56,500
can be faked. 
We don't even know if it's like 

906
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,000
a real IP address. 
We take user data, very 

907
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,800
seriously. 
We even No, like no one's 

908
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,200
complained or no one's asked 
about this, we don't sell the 

909
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:06,800
data. 
Our business is not, we've had a

910
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,400
lot of people ask, like, can you
sell data? 

911
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,800
That seems like, that's just not
our business. 

912
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,100
Our business is providing 
customers with a great developer

913
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:15,700
experience. 
So we are answers. 

914
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:17,800
We do nothing with the data. 
We have systems, that we can't 

915
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,600
even look at the data ourselves 
and to be clear, we don't 

916
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:23,600
actually have any data. 
The only thing we have is an IP 

917
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,000
address of the user. 
That's all we have. 

918
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,800
We don't have their name, we 
don't have their email, we don't

919
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,300
have, you know, anything else 
about that user, right? 

920
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,500
But you might have, you might 
have like, In data. 

921
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,700
So you if you have the IP 
address and I suppose with, with

922
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:38,200
the monitoring tools that you do
have, and then there must be 

923
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,100
some data about transactions 
that, you know, that it's 

924
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:45,400
available for developers to use.
Like, for example, what are the,

925
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,100
you know, what transaction or 
what? 

926
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:51,700
Data are my clients or users of 
my, of my of my client basically

927
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,800
what API calls are being made 
and what transaction requests 

928
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,700
are being made into which smart 
contracts Etc. 

929
00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:59,900
Like this, this kind of metadata
and not necessarily just direct 

930
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:01,400
user data like names and email 
addresses. 

931
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,400
But the This kind of metadata 
must exist. 

932
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,400
Somewhere on your on your 
systems. 

933
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,100
Does it not? 
Yes. 

934
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:11,400
Oh, you're right. 
So we I mean we know which API 

935
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,600
calls are made but again like 
there's no like user 

936
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,500
identifiable information, we 
don't store it. 

937
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,000
I mean, we to the needs, we need
of like, you know, we let the 

938
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,700
user debug their product but we 
don't look at it. 

939
00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:26,700
We don't dive into it. 
We definitely don't sell it. 

940
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:29,200
Not that you know I know there 
are companies that do that and 

941
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,500
nothing against that. 
We just chose for our Core 

942
00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:33,700
Business. 
Be providing the service. 

943
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,400
And it's really interesting 
because there are certain types 

944
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,300
of data that people are very 
sensitive about, you know, 

945
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:43,400
whether its private keys or 
identify if we could identify, 

946
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,200
which users had which addresses,
or which users were sending 

947
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,500
transactions, or which users 
were do this. 

948
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:52,600
That would be a whole nother 
story, but Nickel in effect you 

949
00:45:52,607 --> 00:45:54,800
can. 
So basically, if you look at how

950
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,400
easy it is to actually identify 
addresses on the blockchain, if 

951
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,600
you now also have the IP data 
that goes with it, it becomes 

952
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,300
even easier and I totally agree 
that IP data can be spoofed and 

953
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:08,600
so on. 
But being diligent about this 

954
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,000
100% of the time is nigh 
impossible. 

955
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,800
So, basically, I mean that's, 
that's the reason why, you know,

956
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,500
whistleblowers have such a hard 
life and so on, because 

957
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:21,500
basically staying truly 
Anonymous on the internet is 

958
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:23,500
really hard. 
Yeah, that's true. 

959
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:26,300
I think so. 
Two points of that one is again,

960
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,300
literally the only piece of data
we have is IP and and that is 

961
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:31,100
like even for our own internal 
metrics. 

962
00:46:31,100 --> 00:46:33,200
When we think about, How many 
users use your platform? 

963
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,400
It's actually really hard to 
tell because I peas are not 

964
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,200
correlated to actually users 
very clearly, right? 

965
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:41,400
Your phone. 
If you if you drive another mile

966
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,600
on your phone, your phone picks 
up a new IP address. 

967
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,000
So it's very kind of, it's very 
unmatchable to people. 

968
00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:50,900
The second thing is most of our 
traffic actually, the majority 

969
00:46:50,900 --> 00:46:52,900
of our traffic is back end 
services. 

970
00:46:52,900 --> 00:46:56,300
So mostly IPS we have or just 
from Amazon so like people's own

971
00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:59,800
AWS clusters hitting us, I don't
know the exact status top of my 

972
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,900
head, but I know it's about like
70% of that. 

973
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,800
That is actually back in traffic
from customers. 

974
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,900
So, we don't, we don't see any 
eyepiece in that case, Okay? 

975
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:12,800
Understood as a user of depth, 
as someone whose privacy consent

976
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:13,700
forgive me. 
I'm Drivin. 

977
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,200
So, as someone whose privacy 
consent, I kind of want to know 

978
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,400
if a Dap used a service like 
yours. 

979
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:23,400
What are your thoughts as to 
this? 

980
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,600
Because basically, if I connect 
to add a pin in reality actually

981
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,300
connect to you, that's something
that the user should probably 

982
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,700
know, right? 
So, when you Adapt your 

983
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:35,100
connecting either to that 
company, if they run their own 

984
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:38,900
notes or connecting, the upper 
be right, and kind of diving, 

985
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:41,200
too, little bit of technical 
architecture of a dab here. 

986
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:47,200
So basically there's two ways 
adapt can be constructed either.

987
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:50,800
The company can say, we're going
to Route all the transactions 

988
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,700
through kind of our own back-end
system and our own, our own 

989
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:58,700
proprietary systems and then 
that back-end system Cory's 

990
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:02,200
Alchemy for data and returns it.
So in that case we get Zero 

991
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,000
information about we don't even 
get the IP address right? 

992
00:48:05,300 --> 00:48:08,900
And then you know they can use 
the web three on the front end, 

993
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,600
which means the the queries are 
made from that users, from that 

994
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,500
users computer. 
So that in that case, the user, 

995
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:18,700
the only information that is 
passed is the IP address. 

996
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,400
So in either case, in one thing 
that's interesting in this goes 

997
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,200
to the, the discussion about 
centralization and 

998
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,900
decentralization. 
One thing that's interesting is 

999
00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:30,500
when you're using adapt, if 
there are, if the company runs 

1000
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:34,300
the actual software and the 
know, So and the nodes, then all

1001
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:36,600
of the in all, it's essentially 
like you're using a centralized 

1002
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,300
service that's hitting that 
individual company. 

1003
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:43,800
But with Alchemy you know the 
front end is served by the the 

1004
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,000
product and then the back end is
served by Alchemy so it's almost

1005
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,500
like in a way you're only 
depending partially on that 

1006
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:54,800
individual company, so I'd like 
to turn it back to the sort of 

1007
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,200
like ecosystem and The Business 
of blocking apis. 

1008
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,200
Do you have an idea today of how
many Nodes, you know if you look

1009
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,700
at the entire theory of node 
landscape, you have an idea 

1010
00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:10,800
today like any approximation of 
how many I guess nodes is not 

1011
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,800
the way the real good way to 
look at it because you're not 

1012
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,000
like really you're providing an 
API or not really increasing the

1013
00:49:17,008 --> 00:49:20,500
number of nodes in the network 
but I guess one way to put it 

1014
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:23,400
would be. 
Do you have any idea of how many

1015
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,400
daps in the broader? 
Dap ecosystem. 

1016
00:49:27,700 --> 00:49:31,800
Use alchemy and perhaps also 
like suppose. 

1017
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,500
Our main competitors and fura as
you know, their back-end. 

1018
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:38,400
That's a great question. 
I mean, obviously, I don't know 

1019
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,600
a numbers by know, I know our 
numbers. 

1020
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,500
See, what can I say publicly? 
We have thousands of developers 

1021
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,100
using us, so we have a lot. 
So we have it. 

1022
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:50,800
Got to the point where it's 
actually pretty cool over the 

1023
00:49:50,808 --> 00:49:53,100
last couple of years, you know, 
in the beginning, we would get 

1024
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:55,000
so excited. 
Whenever we got a customer, I 

1025
00:49:55,008 --> 00:49:56,800
mean, we still get very excited,
we get a customer. 

1026
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,500
Ultimately, that's what we are 
here for is to help people build

1027
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:01,900
great applications. 
And now, it's got to the point 

1028
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:07,600
Aunt, where the majority of time
I used crypto stuff, I would say

1029
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:11,000
a huge percentage of time I find
out, I can like look into our 

1030
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:13,100
look and say like oh we have 
customer support chats with 

1031
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:15,800
other customers and Telegram and
I'll just search that company's 

1032
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,500
name and we have a customer 
support chat with them, so I'm 

1033
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:18,900
like, oh cool, they're using 
Alchemy. 

1034
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,900
So I think in terms of one of 
the really cool things is as 

1035
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:27,800
we've seen in terms of growth of
the ecosystem we've seen as 

1036
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,500
defies been blowing up. 
We've seen a ton of Really, 

1037
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:34,000
really cool things. 
I was explaining this to a 

1038
00:50:34,008 --> 00:50:35,900
friend. 
I think one of the most 

1039
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:38,500
interesting things about the 
defy ghosts didn't what I think 

1040
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:43,200
fueled the growth of the device.
Ecosystem is every company in 

1041
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,800
crypto effectively every defy 
project effectively has an open 

1042
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,700
read write API for anybody to 
use, right? 

1043
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:53,300
And imagine if like Facebook 
Google Amazon, they all had read

1044
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:55,400
write apis. 
Anybody could build on will be 

1045
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,900
more difficult for Facebook, 
right? 

1046
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,000
But the Innovation that would 
happen on top of that would be 

1047
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:01,900
mind-blowing. 
I think that's one of the really

1048
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:05,200
Lee cool things that you've seen
in terms of speeding up, T5, and

1049
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,900
for us, in terms of the growth 
of our user base. 

1050
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:10,500
It's been really cool to see 
that because we kind of like 

1051
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:14,300
directly correlate to the number
of number of projects in the 

1052
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:17,200
space like we have certain 
percentage and and with that it 

1053
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,600
grows and that was the main 
reason for us spending months 

1054
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,800
and months and months building 
out self-serve where anybody can

1055
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,500
sign up and use it, which is 
actually very tricky 

1056
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,100
infrastructure and developer 
challenge to solve. 

1057
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:35,200
So it took us probably about 
Five months to build this and 

1058
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:38,400
our whole Focus. 
There was before we kind of only

1059
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,300
serve the largest companies. 
And now we said we want to make 

1060
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,200
blockchain accessible to 
everybody and that was always 

1061
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400
the goal but is very difficult 
technically to do. 

1062
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:51,000
And now, you know, we start 
seeing people on our free tier 

1063
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,400
who are very tiny companies and 
then suddenly the blow up, and 

1064
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,100
they'll be one of the largest 
people in space, and they kind 

1065
00:51:57,100 --> 00:51:59,900
of started out from that from 
that small free tier. 

1066
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,800
Hmm, I want to come back to 
this. 

1067
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,500
Topic of AWS, which I was 
mentioning earlier, and then is,

1068
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:09,100
you know, I think to a lot of 
people in the space scaling 

1069
00:52:09,100 --> 00:52:12,600
etherium and scaling, the 
blockchain systems, in general 

1070
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,900
translates to increasing 
decentralization, essentially, 

1071
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:19,000
right? 
Like so having more nodes, 

1072
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:25,300
having diverse validator set or 
mining power, you know, what do 

1073
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:29,200
you say to developers or people 
in the ecosystem who fear that 

1074
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:34,400
services like Alchemy and Other 
sort of, like, node aggregation,

1075
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,700
services or apis. 
We're essentially there's 

1076
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:43,100
there's aggregation of or 
centralization of access. 

1077
00:52:43,700 --> 00:52:47,300
What do you say to those people 
who think that this is 

1078
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,700
detrimental or somehow goes 
against this goal of bringing 

1079
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:54,900
further decentralization? 
And I mean, I want to give you 

1080
00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:59,000
like a concrete example. 
Like if if in 5 or 10 years from

1081
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:06,000
now, 80%, or more of Daps on 
etherium or are using one or two

1082
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,000
apis? 
Do you think that that's a 

1083
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,000
success for aetherium? 
Yeah. 

1084
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:11,900
Do you see that as a success for
a theorem? 

1085
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:14,700
Or do you see that as a risk 
potentially for powerful 

1086
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:17,000
entities, like governments, for 
example, to step in and like 

1087
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:19,300
break defy. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1088
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,200
I think that's a great question.
And something we thought about a

1089
00:53:22,207 --> 00:53:24,700
lot, right, in the very 
beginning before we built 

1090
00:53:24,700 --> 00:53:28,600
anything, we were convinced that
we needed to build a pure 

1091
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,200
decentralized solution for this 
and that's what we Started 

1092
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,400
building. 
So we actually built all the 

1093
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,100
tech. 
It's actually very complicated 

1094
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:39,200
technology problem to do a 
decentralized network to support

1095
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,200
this. 
And the reason is when you think

1096
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:42,900
of like, let's say, you take 
something like auger, we have 

1097
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:45,700
betting Market something 
happens, and you need to settle.

1098
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:49,100
You need to settle the results 
of an real world event and you 

1099
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:51,500
need to settle it within, you 
know, it's a couple days or 

1100
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:53,000
whatever. 
It's on target, right? 

1101
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:56,000
For an API service, there's a 
real world event, someone 

1102
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,900
sending someone a piece of data 
and we need to settle at and 

1103
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:02,600
like 20 milliseconds to know if 
that's Right, or not. 

1104
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,800
And there's this thing where you
know, just having someone steak 

1105
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,000
and then slash into they give 
wrong isn't actually going to 

1106
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,500
work because the damage has been
done like that incorrect data 

1107
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:13,800
has been sent and that that 
could have massive consequences.

1108
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,100
So it's just very complicated 
structure that we spent months 

1109
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:19,600
thinking about. 
We had some of the kind of like 

1110
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:22,800
like math Olympiad type Minds 
working on it to kind of figure 

1111
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,000
out a really cool solution for 
it. 

1112
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,200
And we had, we actually ended up
coming with a really good 

1113
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,200
solution and then we ended up 
talking to go back to that. 80 

1114
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,600
customers and we just ask them, 
like, you know, how much do you 

1115
00:54:34,607 --> 00:54:35,900
care about this? 
How much do you want? 

1116
00:54:35,900 --> 00:54:37,400
Decentralized, decentralize 
product. 

1117
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,200
How much do you want? 
Whatever? 

1118
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,600
And, you know, honestly, we were
blown away. 

1119
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,900
This is one thing about user 
feedback where you do something 

1120
00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:45,900
and you think it's so obvious 
and everyone knows, and then 

1121
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:48,500
users are like, oh actually 
you're an idiot. 

1122
00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:51,300
And the people who design like 
we just did we just did, right? 

1123
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:55,200
So what we found was number one,
people didn't care. 

1124
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,300
They said, we want something 
that works because when you 

1125
00:54:57,300 --> 00:55:00,400
think about this, there's two 
pockets enter, when you think 

1126
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:05,600
about it, the first Stage is 
getting a product that works and

1127
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,300
then it's like having like a 
completely truly decentralized 

1128
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:12,400
product, right? 
And right now when you think of 

1129
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,400
it and then the second, the 
second p and everyone's just 

1130
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,100
focus on that first piece. 
Now, making something that 

1131
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:17,700
works. 
And the second thing that's 

1132
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:20,400
super important, understand, and
this was the Crux of, the, of 

1133
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,100
the reason that people said, we 
want this solution first, make 

1134
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:25,000
sure you have the decentralized 
version, our back pocket. 

1135
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,600
And when the time is ready and 
when we feel like we need it, 

1136
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,300
people will build it out. 
But the thing is, there's a very

1137
00:55:31,300 --> 00:55:34,000
big difference Between us and aw
us right? 

1138
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,300
In terms of like you know the 
centralization aspect and the 

1139
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:39,500
answer it goes back to. 
I think we're a Pike's, the 

1140
00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:43,500
blockchain, we don't store any 
blockchain data, the data we 

1141
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:45,200
give you can get from anywhere 
else, right? 

1142
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,700
Which is why the super node is 
actually a small part of our 

1143
00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,600
business, the developer tools 
are a huge chunk of our business

1144
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,200
and the reason for that is 
people can switch off at any 

1145
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:55,800
time. 
Essentially, one of the things 

1146
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,600
we provide is we provide a 
commodity service. 

1147
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,300
Of course, we do a better more 
reliable, the will always be the

1148
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:02,700
alternative. 
And this is not so much a 

1149
00:56:02,707 --> 00:56:05,300
criticism on. 
I'm not directing this as a sort

1150
00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:10,600
of criticism on on Alchemy just 
in terms of you know the vision 

1151
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,300
that I think a lot of us have 
envisioned right, for what 

1152
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:16,400
blockchain system should look 
like, right, do you think that 

1153
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,800
it would be a success if you 
know, 80% or more? 

1154
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,400
Or it's a 90%, like, some huge 
number of daps were pointing at 

1155
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,600
to API URLs basic, like to API 
endpoints or one API endpoint. 

1156
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:34,700
Would you see that as Is 
potentially a risk for defy to 

1157
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:38,400
get shut down or even like if 
your service go down or if like 

1158
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,200
you're competitive service, go 
down and all of a sudden like 

1159
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,500
there's 50% of the ecosystem 
that goes down with it and defy 

1160
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:46,900
by this time Powers trillions of
dollars and in market cap and 

1161
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:48,900
like the entire economy goes 
down. 

1162
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,700
Well, the defy economy, what 
does that catastrophic scenario?

1163
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:57,200
Look like in your view and is 
that desirable given where we 

1164
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,600
know like blotching comes from, 
it comes from the desire to have

1165
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,700
things are decentralized, that 
are resilient Etc. 

1166
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,400
Yeah, absolutely. 
I think first to be clear a 

1167
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:10,000
success in blockchain means that
we're providing new value a new 

1168
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,500
product that we couldn't do 
before. 

1169
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,200
And, and that, it cannot be 
checked out like it. 

1170
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:17,300
The not being shut, down is a 
really important piece. 

1171
00:57:17,300 --> 00:57:20,600
And I would say like if Alchemy 
was more like an Amazon service 

1172
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,700
that you know, Amazon has Amazon
has all these companies data and

1173
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:27,100
if Amazon goes down like they're
not getting their data back, 

1174
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:29,400
right? 
So, I think a success case for 

1175
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:34,300
us in alchemy would be a Truly 
that, you know, nodes just get a

1176
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:37,300
lot better and they, you know, 
everybody can run their node and

1177
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:39,500
that works and we're just 
focusing on building the tooling

1178
00:57:39,500 --> 00:57:41,200
around it. 
Like our goal is not to be, we 

1179
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:42,800
don't want to be a note 
infrastructure company. 

1180
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,400
We want, it's actually not a 
great business to be in the 

1181
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,500
developer tools is actually a 
much better business from the 

1182
00:57:47,508 --> 00:57:50,300
business side because nodes are 
very expensive to run. 

1183
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:54,600
So, for, for when we think about
the defy case, let's say there's

1184
00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:57,900
there's two, you know, two apis,
providing or one API providing, 

1185
00:57:57,900 --> 00:57:59,900
you know, the majority. 
So right now, we do about 7% the

1186
00:57:59,900 --> 00:58:02,300
top apps. 
But let's say, That I think 

1187
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:05,300
there's two cases here. 
There's a case where you know, 

1188
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,200
if God forbid you know, 
something happened and the 

1189
00:58:09,207 --> 00:58:11,600
government comes and says hey we
gotta shut this down. 

1190
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,100
If the case was that these 
companies would be hosed. 

1191
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:17,100
That would not be good. 
That would be a very bad thing 

1192
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,000
but if the case was the company 
could just, you know, just run 

1193
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,200
their node Point, like, 
literally one of the nice things

1194
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:24,600
about alchemy, which is a great 
thing for the customer. 

1195
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,200
Not so great for us, but you can
switch on and off Alchemy, in 

1196
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,300
one line of code. 
Like, literally all you do is 

1197
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:33,100
you take your line of code. 
Point that John server takes 

1198
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:35,100
less than three minutes to 
switch on less than three 

1199
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:36,700
minutes to switch off, which is 
tough. 

1200
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:39,200
Because what that means is we 
have to continually, when users,

1201
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,400
business, our customers 
business, because it could be 

1202
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:42,800
anybody who sort of opening 
time. 

1203
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,100
So I think I think the way that 
it's going right now is we're 

1204
00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:49,400
providing a suite of tools on 
top of node functionality, which

1205
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,000
I think are very valuable but 
people are not dependent on us 

1206
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,900
as much as for our business, our
investors will love it to have 

1207
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:57,100
people depend on us, but the 
only way that we're able to do 

1208
00:58:57,100 --> 00:58:59,300
this is by providing continually
good service. 

1209
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,100
I get, I get what you're saying 
and like I get the argument that

1210
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:10,000
one can simply change the API 
URL like that, they just change 

1211
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,900
the endpoint basically and and 
then they can point somewhere 

1212
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:15,400
else and it's in all their data 
is still there. 

1213
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,800
Everything works out, of course,
all the day this still there. 

1214
00:59:18,300 --> 00:59:22,400
I think it might be a bit harder
because because you offer, also 

1215
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,100
this additional features, 
there's some lock in there and 

1216
00:59:25,100 --> 00:59:28,000
they might have to like rejigger
the rap for it to work without 

1217
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,400
those additional services and 
those additional API. 

1218
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,000
Points. 
I'm just thinking more in terms 

1219
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:38,200
of like ecosystem, resiliency 
and what I would hope is that 

1220
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:42,000
the ecosystem is spread out in 
such a way that, you know, 

1221
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,200
there's 20 alchemy's, right? 
There's like several companies 

1222
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,300
like yours offering varying 
types of services and maybe even

1223
00:59:50,300 --> 00:59:54,100
like nice services for certain 
types of daps that provide them 

1224
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:56,500
like specific types of API calls
and so that we have a more 

1225
00:59:56,500 --> 01:00:00,300
resilient ecosystem that doesn't
rely on. 

1226
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:05,000
Like very large actors that can 
easily take down the entire the 

1227
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,300
entire space and an instant. 
Absolutely. 

1228
01:00:07,300 --> 01:00:09,900
I think that's again, I think 
that's super important and in 

1229
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:10,900
realistically, what would 
happen? 

1230
01:00:10,900 --> 01:00:13,300
If a company switches off, 
Alchemy, the transition will be 

1231
01:00:13,300 --> 01:00:15,900
easy, but kind of continuing 
development on your product 

1232
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:17,900
would just be slower. 
And I think, I think, the 

1233
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:20,700
trade-off here is we thought 
about this internally like do we

1234
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:22,500
build a decentralized system? 
Right? 

1235
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,600
And the question for us was, 
let's say we can push the space 

1236
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,700
two years ahead by building the 
centralized version first 

1237
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:31,500
because it's easier. 
To build and we're able to 

1238
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:34,500
provide better tooling and 
better and better developer 

1239
01:00:34,500 --> 01:00:38,100
experience on top of it versus 
taking two years longer to build

1240
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:41,800
a decentralized version, right? 
So for us, when we think about 

1241
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,900
this, because nothing in life is
free, right? 

1242
01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:46,600
So when you think about building
a decentralized version of 

1243
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,500
product versus kind of developer
tooling, that's more, that is 

1244
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:52,800
more of a centralized pipe. 
The trade-off. 

1245
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,700
There is the time to Market and 
how fast you accelerate the 

1246
01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:58,400
ecosystem, right? 
So if we felt like, it was a 

1247
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,100
case where people I'd be stuck 
on us and you couldn't switch 

1248
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:04,300
off and it be shut down. 
Then we wouldn't have done it, 

1249
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,100
right? 
But in the case we said hey we 

1250
01:01:06,100 --> 01:01:09,100
can push the ecosystem two years
ahead by providing developers 

1251
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:10,700
the tools. 
They need to build things, you 

1252
01:01:10,700 --> 01:01:15,100
know, in one fifth the time then
that and that and they can 

1253
01:01:15,100 --> 01:01:17,500
switch off at any time, I think 
that's the trade-off. 

1254
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:21,700
You have to make. 
And I think for us, we we fully 

1255
01:01:21,700 --> 01:01:24,400
believe that there should not be
any kind of, like, single point 

1256
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,800
of failure or even a few points 
of failure in the ecosystem. 

1257
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,400
And right now, we don't think 
that's the case. 

1258
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,700
Maybe let's switch gears and 
kind of get to the to the last 

1259
01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:36,400
section. 
So I'd like to talk about you 

1260
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,100
investor. 
So you actually have a very 

1261
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:43,000
eclectic Suite of investors and 
Sebastian made me not start with

1262
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,600
this. 
But how did you meet Jay? 

1263
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,500
Z is actually really funny. 
That I get that question. 

1264
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:54,200
We get that question a lot. 
So first off I think let me 

1265
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,300
preface this with low story. 
So the first time that Joe and I

1266
01:01:57,300 --> 01:01:59,500
my co-founder and I started 
working at it, literally the 

1267
01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:02,300
Very first day, I remember 
walking up the stairs, we're in 

1268
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:04,800
this, that the Stanford 
incubator and I asked, I was 

1269
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,600
like, what kind of music do you?
Like is girlfriend? 

1270
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,500
Sarah was there. 
And Sarah says he loves teenage 

1271
01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:12,200
girl, pop. 
And my answer was perfect. 

1272
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,400
That's exactly what I love. 
We're going to get along super 

1273
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,900
well. 
So I've actually like, never 

1274
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:18,600
really listened to Jay Z's 
music. 

1275
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,300
Like I've never really hit play 
on it, I don't really listen to 

1276
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:23,200
rap, it's just not, it's just 
not my thing. 

1277
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,600
So Jay-Z and a bunch of other 
investors have been a kind of 

1278
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,700
like inbounded us. 
We were always, like, look, we 

1279
01:02:28,707 --> 01:02:31,300
just want to build product we 
Very fortunate position where, 

1280
01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:35,000
you know, we ran our company 
super lean and we never needed. 

1281
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,800
Cash was always kind of inbound 
interest. 

1282
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,500
So one investor was like, Hey, 
JC really wants to meet you guys

1283
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,300
and we were, you know, we were 
like we're sorry, we're like 

1284
01:02:43,300 --> 01:02:45,400
heads down working and during 
this time, the company is going 

1285
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:46,900
really crazy and we're working 
really hard. 

1286
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:49,300
And there were days, we had left
our apartment like six days in a

1287
01:02:49,308 --> 01:02:51,500
row. 
So, you know, he got this call a

1288
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:55,100
changeling me really wants me. 
You know, you know, we really 

1289
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:56,700
got to focus. 
We have, we need, folks, our 

1290
01:02:56,700 --> 01:02:58,800
company and I know he really 
wants to talk to you and I was 

1291
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,200
like, all right, like Like we 
had just wrapped up doing a 

1292
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,300
fundraising round and he and 
there. 

1293
01:03:04,300 --> 01:03:06,600
And I just honestly just didn't 
want to do any more best her 

1294
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:07,700
cause I want to get back to 
work. 

1295
01:03:07,700 --> 01:03:11,100
So we said look, okay. 
Yes, the way relationship we 

1296
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:15,600
have with our investors is we 
really want coaches and mentors.

1297
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,800
We don't need, we didn't need 
cash but we said look we want to

1298
01:03:17,808 --> 01:03:19,300
personally. 
Should we want text you on call 

1299
01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:20,900
you email? 
You want to learn from you guys 

1300
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:23,700
are like you know whether it's 
you know, the Reid, Hoffman or 

1301
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:25,800
Charles Schwab or the term of 
order Google. 

1302
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,100
It's like we've been very lucky 
to learn from all these 

1303
01:03:28,100 --> 01:03:31,000
incredible people. 
So What the semester said. 

1304
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,200
Hey, you know Jay Z, you don't 
have any media entertainment 

1305
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:35,800
people, and they're really smart
your Smith. 

1306
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,500
I'm like, all right. 
Cool, let's jump on the phone 

1307
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:40,700
tomorrow and then they said, oh 
I can't because Beyonce had just

1308
01:03:40,700 --> 01:03:44,100
launched her album that day and 
they were going on tour and all 

1309
01:03:44,100 --> 01:03:45,400
right. 
Well, I guess like, you know, 

1310
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,500
just it's fine. 
It's not gonna work out. 

1311
01:03:47,508 --> 01:03:52,200
It's totally fine. 
So we get this call from Jay-Z 

1312
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,200
the next day and he and he calls
his, he's a God to eat. 

1313
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,100
My dinner, really fast to talk 
to you guys. 

1314
01:03:57,100 --> 01:03:59,600
And and so, we ended up having 
this really great conversation. 

1315
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,600
We Interviewed and asked about 
his life and you know what, what

1316
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,100
he was looking for in like why 
he wanted to work with us and 

1317
01:04:06,100 --> 01:04:08,200
these things. 
And was he excited to mentor and

1318
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,400
Coach us? 
And honestly, I have to say I 

1319
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,100
was blown away. 
I again I listen to like One 

1320
01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:15,200
Direction and Jonah was no One 
Direction in Taylor Swift's. 

1321
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,600
Like I really knew nothing about
Jay-Z and he's super smart guy. 

1322
01:04:19,700 --> 01:04:23,100
Very kind, very charismatic. 
Yeah, we were like to Morocco. 

1323
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:24,800
All right, welcome to the 
family. 

1324
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:29,100
So what at Jay-Z's, the woods on
Ethiopia and, you know, if, um, 

1325
01:04:29,100 --> 01:04:33,800
death tooling Can we talk more 
about the business side around 

1326
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:36,900
how to run a company, how to run
a business, how to think about 

1327
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:39,100
your team and Brandis up? 
So there's other things that we 

1328
01:04:39,100 --> 01:04:41,900
like talk to you about. 
We don't we don't we don't 

1329
01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:46,500
necessarily need every investor 
to be deepened developer Towing 

1330
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:50,500
We're also wondering about this 
earlier before we go on the 

1331
01:04:50,500 --> 01:04:53,900
show, you the Stanford is one of
your investors. 

1332
01:04:54,300 --> 01:04:58,600
We didn't know that Stanford had
like a VCR more investment arm. 

1333
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,200
What is that all about? 
There's a couple different 

1334
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,700
Venture arms out of Stanford. 
There's a Stanford endowment. 

1335
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:06,400
There is the Stanford startx 
fund. 

1336
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:11,300
There's the president's fun. 
So yeah, we say a directly 

1337
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:13,600
invested and we have a really 
close relationship with them. 

1338
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,800
And this was also, when John 
Hennessy, the German border, 

1339
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,600
Google was present at the Time. 
So he also personally invested. 

1340
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,800
So we've been like very, very 
tight in in the Cs Department, 

1341
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,500
computer science department, 
multiple of this computer 

1342
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:26,500
science, professors are 
investors and so just really, 

1343
01:05:26,500 --> 01:05:28,400
really close. 
I mean, I spent six years there.

1344
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,100
Undergrad and grad. 
Joe did the same. 

1345
01:05:30,100 --> 01:05:33,800
So, a lot of love for our 
school, Great. 

1346
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,000
So where can people go to find 
you and start building on off 

1347
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,200
me? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1348
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,800
So our website is alchemy API to
IO and you can follow me on 

1349
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:49,400
Twitter Instagram, Nick elster. 
So it's at ni Ki L St. 

1350
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:53,000
ER, feel free to shoot me, an 
e-mail, DM would happy to help 

1351
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,100
and if there's anything I can 
do, feel free to reach out. 

1352
01:05:55,900 --> 01:05:57,900
Oh, thank you, thanks for 
joining us today. 

1353
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:02,200
Thanks for having me. 
Thank you for joining us on this

1354
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,600
week's episode. 
We release new episodes every 

1355
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:08,200
week, you can find And subscribe
to the show on iTunes Spotify 

1356
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,700
YouTube. 
Cloud or wherever you listen to 

1357
01:06:10,700 --> 01:06:12,700
podcast. 
And if you have a Google home or

1358
01:06:12,707 --> 01:06:15,500
Alexa device, you can tell it to
listen to the latest episode of 

1359
01:06:15,508 --> 01:06:19,500
the epicenter podcast, go to 
epicenter, .t V /, subscribe for

1360
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:22,100
a full list of places where you 
can watch and listen, while 

1361
01:06:22,100 --> 01:06:24,400
you're there, be sure to sign up
for the newsletter so you get 

1362
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,700
new episodes in your inbox as 
they're released. 

1363
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,800
If you want to interact with us 
guests or other podcast 

1364
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,600
listeners, you can follow us on 
Twitter and please leave us a 

1365
01:06:32,607 --> 01:06:34,700
review on iTunes. 
It helps people find the show 

1366
01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:38,100
and we're always happy to read 
them but thanks so much and we 

1367
01:06:38,100 --> 01:06:39,500
look forward to being back next.
Tweek.