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My Name is Davis. 
Thank you, Julia. 

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And I'm here with identical 
honest. 

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And hello, from how you doing 
doing? 

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Well, thank you for having me 
here. 

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Great, well, thanks for joining 
us on such short notice. 

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So, this is a bit of a special 
epicenter episode. 

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Code not only because we're all 
here together at full mode 

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studio. 
Also, because we're doing a live

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stream which is not something we
usually do but also because 

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we're here in Berlin during def 
con which we'll talk about and 

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you know that Khanna has been on
on a forced Hiatus for the last 

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couple of years. 
Obviously because of covid and 

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also we are here on the day, 
well, in the next hours, the 

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merge will happen and so it's a 
very special time to be here in 

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Berlin booth Or we get started 
and chat about everything has 

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been happening on this week and 
what's happening in this couple 

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of days. 
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Let's, let's maybe first talk a 
little bit about doc home which 

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is Still going on today, over a 
couple of couple of kilometers 

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from here. 
So, what's that pain? 

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And what's the, what's the 
significance of Def, con 20, 20,

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20 Defcon, it's very much any 
Theory. 

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Mm Community Conference very 
much in the spirit of ECC and 

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Def con. 
We've actually had Defcon twice 

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before in 2018 and 2019 and then
we were going to have it on in 

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2020, in was cancelled because 
of covid. 

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And so we moved To 2021 was 
canceled again because of covid.

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And now, it's 20, 22. 
And finally, we're back. 

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We're in a new venue by this be.
It's great, right? 

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Yeah, it's yeah. 
I like the venue. 

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I just renewed for next year is 
next year. 

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So basically we'll be there 
again next year Defcon won't 

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happen again 2023. 
Yeah. 

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So basically it's lots of talks 
about etherium infrastructure 

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and depth and it's very big 
heavy. 

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There's not a lot of Business 
Development which I personally 

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Really. 
Yeah. 

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And I think one of the 
interesting sort of developments

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and, you know, which also is 
because of this, like, two year 

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break, is that the last epcon 
there was no nurses chain. 

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There was, no, not exactly. 
Even last def con, they would 

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not have been and no such thing 
because gnosis chain kind of it 

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basically noses and X Dy, merge 
to create gnosis chain in 

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November of last year. 
So, basically, yeah. 

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It's been, it's been a crazy 
year for us, but the really nice

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thing, I said, I mean by little 
you used to be like this web 

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three Hub and we lost a little 
bit of that, you know, during 

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covid and you know, no in the 
direction of Lisbon which I'm 

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still talking about because I 
have kids in school. 

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Yeah, I'm not gonna pack up and 
leave. 

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Yeah, but yeah. 
So basically used to be like 

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this vibrant place and kind of 
it after covid is kind of slowly

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coming back basically footnote 
our co-working space. 

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Here is almost fully booked 
Again so there's like thing in 

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October, there would be like one
you know 12-person office 

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becoming available but basically
in principle, it's fully booked.

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Yeah and yeah. 
So basically this is you know, 

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def con has historically been 
part of Berlin blockchain week 

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and we also brought that back 
this year. 

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So basically there's a whole 
host of conferences in the next 

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in the next couple of days. 
It is helium. 

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Yeah. 
East Berlin is about to happen 

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and it's June Khan and ZK hat. 
And like a million side events. 

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There's like too many parties to
go to. 

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There's one tonight at a 
swimming pool which I feel like 

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it's from the cow protocol. 
So really I ought to go but I 

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feel like I'm too old for this. 
Very special feeling we stopped 

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because here was the first time 
that I can publicly talk about 

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Donna. 
And so I have this very special 

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memory but I really love these. 
This feeling of small community.

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It's like is is like a family at
some point and I really love 

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this kind of competition which 
you feel so comfortable, talking

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with friends, sharing ideas, 
sharing new technologies. 

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And these five is really 
amazing. 

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I totally that. 
I have the feeling that we lost 

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a little, these Berlin spirited 
during the pandemic, but I 

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really want to See, it's a 
little is barely again because 

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it was amazing when they were 3 
D3 Summit. 

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That con it's really in, then it
was per hour that led the last 

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time. 
And yeah, I really, really happy

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to see in happening again and 
see that the next year is going 

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to also to happen. 
It's crazy. 

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I was always a big fan of that 
pain and coming to Berlin used 

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to be like a regular thing for 
me. 

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So I feel sometimes like I'm no 
more crypto people in Berlin 

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than I do in Paris for some 
reason. 

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But today, I was great and just 
like seeing everybody again and 

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all you like these familiar 
faces that I hadn't seen in 

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three years and yeah, I'm also 
like I'm almost generally just 

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excited about the no such a 
system. 

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I mean, even though I'm on a 
day-to-day more involved in 

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Cosmos, I think the ghost is 
chain. 

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Ecosystem is like super 
interesting. 

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Just got some great people, lots
of people talking and working on

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things like governance and dabs 
and so yeah, I think it's like a

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really cool like Somewhere like 
lots of actual stuff is being 

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built. 
You know, talking to Patricio 

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from poet yesterday. 
And this was also a sentiment 

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that, you know, at the last app 
gone, you were talking about 

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those things like kind of 
perspective, things that were 

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going to happen and we're going 
to come into fruition and next 

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couple of years and now they are
like people are actually 

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building businesses like using 
his chain and building actual 

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use cases and like actual things
that people use. 

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So that's actually pretty cool. 
Yeah, I totally feel that and I 

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think basically we've been 
through in terms of 

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decentralization and culture, I 
think we've been through an 

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eight-year that means that it 
right? 

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So well, yeah, so busy, we've 
been kind of at a low point. 

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So busy, I think kind of, when 
people started building 

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businesses kind of resent 
realizing, you know, is easy in 

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a way, right? 
So basically kind of like you, 

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you the easiest way to Those 
things is in a centralized 

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decentralized, even even if it's
on a blockchain and I think kind

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of people at least in my bubble,
they've kind of just started 

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kind of becoming weary of that 
and kind of trying to head back 

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into the re decentralized 
doubling down. 

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Yeah. 
Listening who's not familiar 

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with it was so it was it was 
building a company called dab 

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node which is on the face of it,
a hardware company but really 

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it's a software company, it 
makes it really easy for you to 

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stay at home. 
So basically it's kind of geared

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towards the you know, Ronnie 0 
node, run your own validated 

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home kind of crowd and maybe you
can tell us kind of how you've 

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seen the last couple of years 
years, in terms of 

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centralization and 
Centralization. 

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Yeah, good topics. 
Do anything. 

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Yeah, the thing is, well, in 
the, I'm not, we usually have a 

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Lemma. 
We, we tell people that we 

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didn't realize until it hurts 
and relax until it works. 

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So that should be the way to 
work, right? 

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We need to focus on the 
transition and then make the 

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things work really if you will 
completely centralized in the 

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dysfunction that need to be 
built. 

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So maybe you have no I'm not 
going to have a problem, never 

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but I think it's important to 
have these violins and it's 

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important to focus on the 
important part. 

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I have the feeling that we are 
launching losing the 

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decentralization at some point. 
For example, at the very 

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beginning of them non-dominant, 
the first proof of content in 

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2017, we were able to resolve 
DNS domains with IPS websites, 

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and people didn't use it at all.
So we lost that and now seeing 

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all these things that happen in 
all these censorship Saints is, 

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when people realize that we are 
losing. 

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In our path in some way. 
So, I see a lot of business 

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Robin and trying to follow the 
different, the reverse path, 

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path, centralized, and then make
a decentralized. 

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But that's not working. 
Because at the end, this implies

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is not easy. 
It's a real Challenge. 

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And that is why you need to have
that in your mind from the very 

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beginning. 
You need to focus on this 

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annotation. 
See how it can work and then if 

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this needed, try to centralize 
but we have the feeling that we 

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are. 
We are changing our mind. 

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I don't know why maybe he knew 
people in the community that 

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doesn't have this feeling of the
centralization or don't, or 

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maybe they don't realize of the 
important of the centralization.

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So, that is why I try to focus 
medication. 

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Also the importance of this 
interrogation, the benefits of 

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censorship system, that was that
important of of privacy, and 

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that is why. 
Yeah, try to educate people on 

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that scent. 
Yeah, and I mean, just to kind 

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of spell it out, Only when you 
move to proof of stake and 

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basically, lots of people don't 
really want to take from home. 

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00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:09,600
They just delegate. 
You end up with a lot of large 

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00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:14,200
stickers and basically that's 
not really decentralized Network

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00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,500
in terms of resilience. 
So, basically, if it's just a 

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number of people, you kind of 
need to call to kind of shut it 

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down, or that's. 
Yeah, yeah, dance of prefer 

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steak is also a big issue 
obviously right now. 

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The top five sticker control the
63% of the network. 

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It's crazy. 
It's too much and understand 

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that we have anything, is that? 
This number has grown. 

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00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,300
Its that mean, that we are not 
feeling the problem. 

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00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,000
The thing is the, the problem is
making even worse. 

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00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:51,300
And and also from the point of 
view of the VPS or Cloud 

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00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:56,100
providers for example, Hefner, 
presently, but crypto 

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00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:59,600
application on their servers so 
that means we are going to lose 

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00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:02,800
50% of the nodes of the network 
because of that. 

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00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,600
Obviously, they people are going
to move to another provider. 

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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,400
But at the moment that we are 
centralized in our 

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infrastructure and cloud 
provider, or in biggest Acres, 

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we are losing all the benefits 
that we can get from this 

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interaction. 
Nobody and yeah, without wanting

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to kind of, I totally take your 
point. 

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00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,900
I think for hats. 
There's only four shared 

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00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:21,700
instances though. 
Basically if you have your own 

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00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,600
server you can do what you want 
shorter and I haven't been super

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00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,100
I mean as far as I know they 
haven't been like very explicit 

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00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:29,200
and clear about that. 
It's just been kind of like his 

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00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,200
hand wavy Statements, right? 
Or have they come up with 

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00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,100
something more clear sense and 
do we any say, I don't know. 

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No one that I started softening,
but they make an understatement 

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00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,300
on the direction, and it's risk.
I mean, maybe he's not something

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that can hurt us, but my point 
of view on I had something. 

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00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,400
Is that it's great. 
I mean, like so we run 

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00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,800
validators, I didn't wrap 
around. 

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00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,500
Valladares on Hudson are just 
because I used head sooner and 

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I, you know, I liked it and it's
quite cheap but when I realized 

227
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,600
looking at the validator set in 
a lot of Cosmos, blockchains 

228
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,300
Something like, you know, the 
high percentage like in the 50 

229
00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:06,700
to 60 percent of nodes on some 
change or running and Hudson are

230
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,000
like we immediately the said 
like we're moving away from 

231
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,100
Hudson or not because they're 
kicking us out, but because we 

232
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:14,400
want to we want to be on servers
that other people are not on. 

233
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,800
So we're moving to like you know
French service providers thought

234
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,800
I actually think that the fact 
that had snare is kicking off if

235
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,900
it does. 
In fact start closing accounts 

236
00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:28,600
that it would probably be a 
decentralizing factor now the 

237
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,100
Flip side of that is like 
everybody moves to AWS like 

238
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,900
that's a good make it is even 
worse and Google Cloud. 

239
00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:41,200
Yeah, I mean for me, everything 
was a wake-up call to let people

240
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,300
know that we are still releasing
the sense but yeah, I am also 

241
00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:48,200
running notes in, hasn't it on 
that note. 

242
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,600
So, I mean, I am not against BP.
Sics to try to balance the 

243
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,000
situation between providers 
stickers. 

244
00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:57,900
I think it needs to be space for
all of us. 

245
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,400
Yeah. 
And I mean, seriously, what 

246
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,200
we've In recently with they'll 
turn their tornado ofac 

247
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,100
enforcement action. 
Yeah. 

248
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:09,900
So this is so we recently had an
I recently had an episode with a

249
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:12,900
Peter Peter from from climb 
Center. 

250
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,200
Yeah, and on the entire tornado 
thing and that's where I learned

251
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,600
that Alex is not actually heard 
in connection with the ofac 

252
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,800
thing. 
But apparently in the 

253
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,100
Netherlands there's a negligent 
money laundering law which seems

254
00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:30,000
crazy because I mean every time 
you get money Cut. 

255
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,400
I mean if I sell you a chocolate
bar and I shouldn't have to to 

256
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,200
carry you, to kind of ascertain 
that you have obtained, the 

257
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,100
funds you're using to pay for 
that chocolate bar, you know, in

258
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:46,600
a legitimate manner. 
So, yeah, so it seems like it 

259
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,700
seems like it's very high. 
Yeah, I did. 

260
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,500
Yeah, I'm not sure whether this 
will hold up, but they're handy.

261
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,400
They have 100 days to kind of 
charge him and they haven't yet.

262
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,000
Yeah, and my months but yeah. 
Obviously kind of had putting 

263
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:05,100
the Addresses on the olfactory 
list that's been shocking. 

264
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:07,500
Because I mean it's never really
happened to infrastructure 

265
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:08,400
before. 
I mean it's happened to 

266
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,400
individual people are 
organizations, it's not happened

267
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,500
to like technology so and I 
think I think there's a good 

268
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,000
chance that this will be revoked
in due time, but I think what's 

269
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,800
really threatening to us right 
now is over compliance so 

270
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,400
basically just too many people 
who just don't care and who 

271
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,200
don't want to Bear the burden of
you know carrying the Risk of 

272
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,400
maybe being shut down and like 
something just because they 

273
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,900
didn't. 
So basically just out of an 

274
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:38,900
abundance of caution that their 
general counsel say yeah. 

275
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:42,700
You should just, you know, ban 
these these accounts kind of 

276
00:15:42,708 --> 00:15:46,700
like and then they do and I 
think kind of overcome playing 

277
00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:51,800
that way as an ecosystem. 
I as an ecosystem that is meant 

278
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,700
to be billed on kind of 
permissionless innovation. 

279
00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:56,600
That's kind of like the core 
value. 

280
00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,500
That's appalling. 
And also in a way it's also way 

281
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:05,400
A to kind of separate the good 
beans from the bad beans, right?

282
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,200
Kind of just see who overcomes 
eyes did it without having to 

283
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:14,100
and the people who don't 
overcome life, those are the 

284
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:15,900
people who actually committed to
the values. 

285
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,900
I think it was Karen, your 
general counsel. 

286
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:24,500
I was speaking with this week, 
he was pushing for Clear 

287
00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,600
guidance, on minimum compliance,
right? 

288
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,900
So we would love To do that out 
of a done. 

289
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:35,000
I mean, I've done that has been 
the most the most reliable of 

290
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,300
other, you know, European 
lobbying formations and interest

291
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:41,300
groups. 
Yeah. 

292
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:45,500
So I think basically having like
some sort of Playbook, like, 

293
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:49,000
what do I actually have to do 
and what do other people do? 

294
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,200
Just because, you know, they 
don't care. 

295
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,200
I think that would actually be 
super cool. 

296
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,400
Yeah, I'm sorry, we had a couple
things you want to hit on say so

297
00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:01,300
you know, we've talked about 
Have come a little bit, veered 

298
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:06,800
off into some other topics. 
I mean, I think the merge is 

299
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,300
something that we should maybe 
touch on. 

300
00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:13,099
Although we had some we had some
concerns about when this would 

301
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:16,900
come out and whether it's a I 
think for those listening if 

302
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,200
this comes out, if you're 
listening to this after the 

303
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,599
merge please, keep in mind, this
was recorded a few hours before 

304
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:24,800
the merge. 
So yeah, maybe maybe from your 

305
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,099
perspective, you know, because 
you run a company that helps 

306
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,000
people run their own. 
Nose in their own validators. 

307
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:34,800
What is this was significance of
this to you? 

308
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,400
And how do you see this, like 
affecting your business? 

309
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,700
But you know, like long-term the
ecosystem and maybe give us a 

310
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,600
brief recap of what has happened
so far because basically the the

311
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,000
merge we've been talking about 
this for six years, I had. 

312
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,200
Yeah. 
So so basically it may be and I 

313
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,200
think it's changed a lot during 
that time for him and you were 

314
00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,800
there for all of it. 
So Yeah, I mean all the things 

315
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,100
are happening to be here today. 
The Roma posterior hatching so 

316
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,300
many times that if it's even 
hard to think about all of the 

317
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,200
senior had changed. 
For example, I remember when you

318
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,800
need to stake 1000 1500 is to be
able to be able to later because

319
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,200
of the signature of the, of the 
validators. 

320
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,900
You were not able to aggregate 
all of them because with the 

321
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:28,400
neurology and them BLS happen 
and it changed everything we do.

322
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,800
Move to 32 Iggy's. 
And if I am right, I think 

323
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:37,900
italic announced this in canto 
2018 and that changed everything

324
00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:40,500
from the proof of stake 
perfective. 

325
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:47,800
Then when we decide to to 
integrate for sample 

326
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,700
distribution, crowding into one 
shark so we can get the 

327
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,100
education client inside the, the
proof of stake chain, that was 

328
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:01,600
another big chain because We do 
call or what we are taking all 

329
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:07,200
and we continue in it right now.
I think one of the most 

330
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,800
challenging, most challenging 
things was the metallic post 

331
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,200
related to the three-room 
product-centric that changing 

332
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,700
all the rules, I think. 
Because at the moment where it 

333
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:22,200
was, when roll up start to 
happening and and we realized 

334
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,500
that the Neurology of student 
knowledge can help a lot to 

335
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:29,900
increase their production per 
second and then We realize also 

336
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:36,000
that the sharding with education
is something so complex that it 

337
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,100
could lead to having a less 
performant Network. 

338
00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:48,200
So, yeah, we did it create a new
paradigm in which we can now 

339
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,000
have that availability and 
charging and then the ropes can 

340
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,900
grow on top of it. 
And then, it's now we need 

341
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:59,300
preaches. 
So we have All the whole 

342
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:03,600
ecosystem because of all these, 
all of these new specs, new 

343
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,500
challenges. 
Yeah, Charlie. 

344
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:10,100
And they feature of the of that 
ability is going to be another 

345
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,900
real challenge, but I think that
the feeling is that in Cancun, 

346
00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:17,300
for example, we have that 
feeling that the Merit is going 

347
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:21,800
to happen, just write the corner
and for you later this 

348
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,000
happening. 
I think that this is something 

349
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,300
that can change All the Rules of
Evidence. 

350
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,600
Missing. 
I have the feeling that we are 

351
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,600
part of the history of plotting 
and being in Berlin, the moment 

352
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,500
the the same place in which it's
even born it's like magical, 

353
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:42,700
right? 
And also allows so from the 

354
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,200
development of you we have the 
feeling that the our community 

355
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,800
members feel part of this. 
I mean is if you are a home 

356
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,400
Stager along these like you are 
alone in your home, but the 

357
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,200
feeling is that we have is a 
community that all together are 

358
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,600
That direction. 
And it's really important to be 

359
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,200
part of something. 
And I think that is really nice.

360
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,500
Also. 
Yeah. 

361
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:06,900
But the thing have changed a 
lot. 

362
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:13,700
I mean, for example, during the 
any series of of proof of stake,

363
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,300
we even don't know when they 
were all going to happen and we 

364
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:21,800
don't have that yet. 
The, the ecosystem is growing, 

365
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,900
in terms of Technology also, 
because now we are introducing, 

366
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:27,900
Merkle trees up. 
There was a technology that one 

367
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,200
year ago. 
Maybe we don't know how to spoil

368
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,900
it. 
So everything is changing but 

369
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,900
but I also have the feeling that
this is really strong because of

370
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:39,800
the maturity of the technology 
we have evolving during the 

371
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,000
years. 
This is not just an idea of six 

372
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,900
months that just deliver. 
So the other feeling is that we 

373
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:48,100
are making the roots of 
something. 

374
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:50,900
You. 
That's really, really, nice your

375
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,600
thoughts. 
Yeah, I agree. 

376
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,500
It's been coming for so long and
now it's coming and really 

377
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:01,200
inopportune. 
I'm like it's 6 a.m. tomorrow 

378
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,000
morning. 
We'll know. 

379
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,600
That's going to be open all 
night. 

380
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,000
There's going to be War rooms 
it. 

381
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,900
Here of kind of people kind of 
tracking the merge and making 

382
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:14,400
sure the coke Lions work and 
pick up and they're gonna be 

383
00:22:14,408 --> 00:22:17,300
like a screen like like winning.
If there is a point here and 

384
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,200
launch that. 
Yeah, we do that. 

385
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,000
We should. 
Yeah, yeah, I mean, basically 

386
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,500
it'll be a long night. 
So I think we have time to kind 

387
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,000
of set up stuff and then at The 
merge. 

388
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:36,500
And so there's this, this 
artist, there's a musician who 

389
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:43,000
kind of synthesized, the history
of aetherium into a musical 

390
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,900
composition. 
So basically, I may be 

391
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,800
paraphrasing this wrong because 
basically my musical knowledge 

392
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,800
is zero, so basically forgive me
if I do. 

393
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,300
So I think he's kind of Taken 
each block and kind of somehow 

394
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:59,000
calculated a musical note. 
From it. 

395
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:02,700
So basically there's like the 
the number of blocks are the 

396
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,000
number of musical notes. 
It takes about a half hour to 

397
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,600
perform and where we performed 
at the merge because obviously 

398
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,700
this is kind of when when like 
if you improve of work and and 

399
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:16,000
it's performing it live, He's 
performing at life, he had were 

400
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,400
not. 
Well, basically it's 6:00 6:30 

401
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,500
a.m. with something be here 
because we're Yeah. 

402
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:26,100
So basically it'll happen. 
It'll happen is by the very 

403
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,700
unfortunate timing in this. 
You know, Central European Time 

404
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,800
Zone like yeah should have been 
on the West Coast or something. 

405
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,500
It's like 9:00 p.m. that's like 
nice and cozy. 

406
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,900
Yeah but yeah. 
No it's all happening and I mean

407
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,800
the the office where a theorem 
launched its no longer, I mean, 

408
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,300
basic no longer the, the he's 
deaf office. 

409
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:50,100
They moved out a couple of years
ago so basically like the the 

410
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:53,900
golden offers and everything is 
gone but maybe we can kind of 

411
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:55,500
have the much here. 
Just be nice. 

412
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:56,300
Yeah. 
Doesn't. 

413
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:57,900
Yeah, I think this is a good 
place to have it. 

414
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,700
So many eggs in the wrong basket
in terms of like not building 

415
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:05,300
anything on ethereum, you know, 
it feels like really kind of 

416
00:24:05,308 --> 00:24:06,900
nice to be here while it's 
happening. 

417
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:13,100
And yeah, I also am remembering 
all the complexity that we have 

418
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:16,000
added to the network also, 
because I still remember at the 

419
00:24:16,008 --> 00:24:22,300
beginning, when you can run a 
node in just laptop and and then

420
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,700
the change started to grow. 
Now we have education 

421
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:28,300
contentious, we hold out of 
pity. 

422
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,500
She's in the ecosystem. 
Now, also, the Amigos is also a 

423
00:24:32,508 --> 00:24:35,000
new piece proposed about 
separation. 

424
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:41,400
So for from the point of view of
a user, it has increased 

425
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,000
difficulty to be part of the 
network and that is why we run 

426
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,600
down at mainly to try to remove 
a strap that complexity from the

427
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,800
users to to allow anyone to run 
an old. 

428
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,300
I think it's important that 
because otherwise, we are only 

429
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,300
going to have technical people 
en route. 

430
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,600
Is and this is not the situation
either. 

431
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,800
So painting board as much as 
possible. 

432
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,200
People, I think is a something 
very important for the future of

433
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,700
Syrian. 
And, and on the thing is, we are

434
00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:14,100
making so changes making that 
didn't work with a lot of 

435
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:16,400
things. 
No, renewal cryptography, is it 

436
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,400
making it even harder? 
But it's worth obviously, yeah, 

437
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,000
let's talk about the new 
cryptography. 

438
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,600
So the, the new cool queer kid 
on the Block, obviously, and is 

439
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:31,100
ZK based just as Bridges and you
involved in them too because you

440
00:25:31,108 --> 00:25:35,400
have your fingers in everything.
Yeah. 

441
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:42,500
Yeah for me which is always a 
problem in the ecosystem because

442
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:47,400
you need to have operators, you 
need to have trust on then it's 

443
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,700
always the we get the weak piece
of the network. 

444
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,100
We have seen internal hacks in 
the last year's because of that 

445
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:55,500
because they preach are not 
safe. 

446
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,800
And mean I believe really I 
would like to do have these 

447
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,100
translate solution happening and
I have the feeling that with 

448
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,200
this analogy technology, we can 
start to create this bridge 

449
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,200
between different networks. 
For example, agree between Nazis

450
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,200
and the theorem, because since 
we are sharing the knowledge 

451
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,100
sharing cryptography is even 
possible to create these riches.

452
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:24,100
So for example, the thing is the
consensus client according to 

453
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:29,100
the sign is able to have this 
state on Smart contract. 

454
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:34,000
So being able to have the state 
of other blockchain allows you 

455
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,100
to create proof of the state in 
other blockchain using the no 

456
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,900
ticket to know you and that is 
game-changing, right? 

457
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:44,000
Because usually you don't depend
on no one's. 

458
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,600
You only depend on someone 
polishing proofs and this allows

459
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,700
to create the trailers brakes 
that this. 

460
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,600
Yeah. 
I mean maybe maybe to give give 

461
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,000
some background on this. 
So I mean we've had trust is 

462
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,600
bridges in the past but they 
were all optimistic, right? 

463
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,500
So basically it kind It is they 
relied on people in monitoring 

464
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,700
them and challenging the state. 
If the trans, if they think the 

465
00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:09,200
transition was, it was invalid. 
So basically, in a way, it was 

466
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,800
trustless, but in a game 
theoretical kind of way, whereas

467
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,000
the new type of bridges, the ZK 
like client Bridges. 

468
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,600
They are trust is in you know 
you know in Mathematica crypto 

469
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,100
wouldn't cryptographic way and I
mean that is it is a game 

470
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:27,700
changer. 
Yeah totally I have a feeling I 

471
00:27:27,708 --> 00:27:32,900
mean Yeah, but going back to the
centralization and the center 

472
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:34,900
handle her said, I had to deal 
works. 

473
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,600
It makes sense to have these 
breeches, because they are 

474
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:45,100
needed, and but we are so that 
the current ones is is hard 

475
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:47,300
mundane. 
It has a lot of legs. 

476
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,900
And this is a game-changing for 
sure, because you remove all 

477
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:54,400
this trash, all these 
insecurities, and you are just a

478
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,700
connection between networks and 
in the future. 

479
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,900
See you in 20 to be able to 
support several. 

480
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:06,500
Roll-Ups from several SDK, abms 
is even more important to create

481
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:09,000
this region that translates 
because we are going to have a 

482
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,800
lot of connection between em. 
And that's a critical 

483
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,100
infrastructure point. 
So seeing how this new 

484
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:18,600
technology allows us to create 
these kind of things is really 

485
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:20,700
amazing. 
I am really excited about all of

486
00:28:20,708 --> 00:28:23,800
this, and really two units have 
been talking about these 

487
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,200
trailers bleach with your D4. 
Get all 3 G's about how we can 

488
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,100
can create a general proof of 
Bitcoin inside the terrarium, 

489
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,400
but the data proved that work 
was crazy but I mean we have 

490
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,500
been thinking about that from 
several and several years and 

491
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,400
this country change everything 
or that of my feeling. 

492
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800
There's also going to be a 
panel. 

493
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,400
I'm looking forward to very much
this afternoon on you know, 

494
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:53,300
zero-knowledge Bridges with 
Hardy and Alex from math, labs 

495
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,800
and Uma. 
And originally vitalic was also 

496
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,900
slated to be on the panel 
Unfortunately, he's sick. 

497
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:04,400
So he called out, but I'm still 
very much looking forward to 

498
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,100
that because I feel like this is
the real new thing this year. 

499
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:10,900
So I mean, basically everything 
else that's kind of around. 

500
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,300
We've in principle. 
I had this for a long time. 

501
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,000
So for instance, I know, I mean 
if you look at the house how 

502
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,000
much of that proliferating and 
it warms, my heart, it's 

503
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,900
fantastic. 
But basically, that was in the 

504
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,000
grand scheme of things, they're 
not new right? 

505
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,100
So basically we all knew this 
was going to comment some point.

506
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,700
I would be dowels and basically 
they would be large-scale 

507
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:34,600
coordination and basically. 
Yeah, CK Bridges. 

508
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:37,300
Super cool. 
So bullish, hmm. 

509
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:40,800
I mean, coming coming from the 
world from the cosmos side and 

510
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,900
where we have IBC, which is 
essentially a protocol to send 

511
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:46,900
messages between chains and 
obviously is made possible 

512
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:49,700
because every Every Chain uses 
the same consensus algorithm. 

513
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,100
And so chains are able to 
validate the consensus of other 

514
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,400
chains and so therefore like 
there's this trust minimize 

515
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,300
aspect there. 
I think the thing that that I'm 

516
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:01,500
really Hoping for is to have 
some sort of like shared 

517
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:03,700
standards across like these 
different ecosystems. 

518
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:07,500
So I understand that like from 
the point of view of a theory 

519
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:11,000
and it's difficult to and evm 
chains is difficult to implement

520
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:15,700
IBC type consensus between 
between all the different robots

521
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,400
because they might have 
different assumptions about 

522
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,700
finality and things like that. 
But yeah I'm like really really 

523
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:27,000
quite hopeful that protocols 
like things like composable 

524
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,800
finance and And, you know, these
cross-domain layers that allow 

525
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,200
liquidity to flow between 
ecosystems but also allowing 

526
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,300
instructions. 
So flow with Yuka systems is 

527
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:42,100
going to be really, really 
important next. 

528
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:45,300
Couple years and ZK Bridges, 
like part of the types of 

529
00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:49,200
solutions that can kind of flow 
into these more broad 

530
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:53,300
interoperability networks. 
Totally the thing is or the 

531
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:58,100
feeling that half is technology.
Is evolving a lot since then. 

532
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,200
We thought that were impossible,
one year ago. 

533
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:08,500
Now, our reality, the capm be 
able to have recruited stocks 

534
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:13,600
and be able to generate the 
producer state of of 3D on. 

535
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,400
I mean, we are just discovering 
this technology and imagine that

536
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,300
in the future, you can use 
eternal truth about, they the 

537
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:24,900
state of two different networks.
Yes, use internally technology 

538
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:30,200
to connect them, and in a 
shaker, Manner and thing is 

539
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:33,600
there is a lot of projects 
working on deterioration 

540
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,000
Technologies. 
T-Rex Park median. 

541
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:41,100
Earth people are interested in 
this Trilogy because it's a game

542
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,500
changing technology is not just 
because of the beaches, you can 

543
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:46,500
thing farther to can think about
privacy. 

544
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:50,300
You can think about identity be 
able to pass a cavity with 

545
00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:52,900
certain knowledge proof. 
This kind of things can change, 

546
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,400
everything can change the world.
As we know all that is my 

547
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,300
feeling I am totally Gleason, TK
technology and I think maybe we 

548
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:02,900
don't realize yet. 
How about all the potentials do 

549
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:06,000
you that this can have not just 
for Tyrion, just for users. 

550
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,600
So, really well, is will listen 
in that? 

551
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,600
Is it correct to assume that 
with, with these? 

552
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:15,400
I was talking to someone last 
week who is just building like a

553
00:32:15,408 --> 00:32:20,100
ZK layer for interoperability 
and you're looking at it from 

554
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:24,500
the users perspective, what that
would allow is essentially like,

555
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:30,000
you know, you could go and open 
sea and Pay with any any 

556
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,700
currency like you pay with DOT, 
or Adam or whatever. 

557
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:36,600
And like, the user wouldn't know
the difference because the Z KV 

558
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,600
M would give Zeke a bridge would
be making those transactions, 

559
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,800
sort of in the background and 
like, doing all the swaps and 

560
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,900
everything. 
In order for like, Open Sea to 

561
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:46,600
finally receive like ether, 
whatever like that it needs, is 

562
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,600
that like the kind of the goal 
in the user experience from this

563
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,300
pain inside? 
Yeah, I think maybe I'm wrong 

564
00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:54,000
but I have the feeling that 
right now. 

565
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,000
We are not thinking too much in 
users because if you start to do

566
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,800
things, Now, we have stability, 
we have no 2:16, you have for 

567
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,900
lunch. 
We have a lot of chains with 

568
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:05,900
different others in different 
networks. 

569
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:09,900
For the usually that is crazy to
understand what's happening. 

570
00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:13,800
We saw in the past, people 
sending funds to an address in 

571
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,700
another Network and I mean, we 
need to fix that for sure. 

572
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:21,900
I'll usually the should be 
another thing to start to work 

573
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:23,700
hard. 
Because I've got the feeling 

574
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:26,800
that every day, since we are 
having adding more than ology we

575
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,100
are adding Richard. 
We are Never. 

576
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,500
At work, we are making even 
harder for users and and try to 

577
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:36,600
attract that complexity also 
from the user perspective and 

578
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,300
usage of the network is critical
important more. 

579
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,400
The same critical that this 
technology is that usual 

580
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,700
condition. 
Otherwise makes no sense. 

581
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:46,200
That have the technology. 
I 100% agree. 

582
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:57,300
So I was, I moderated a panel 
last night about how to actually

583
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,200
make Blockchain improve the life
of the many. 

584
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:06,900
And basically I think I think 
the number one takeaway was, we 

585
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:08,699
have to ship this to the 
normies? 

586
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,199
We have basically, basically 
it's like, if we, if we're 

587
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:16,000
building technology for the same
1 million people worldwide, this

588
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,199
is not Connor. 
This is not gonna cut it, it's 

589
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,600
not gonna cut it. 
We kind of, we need to make it 

590
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,199
easy to use. 
And basically, it starts with 

591
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,699
the onboarding experience, 
right? 

592
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:28,500
I mean, you open a wallet and 
says yeah, these are The 12 

593
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:31,000
words never share them with 
anyone don't lose them or you 

594
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,900
will actually lose access to all
of you before you've even done a

595
00:34:33,908 --> 00:34:36,400
single thing. 
Like what the fuck is this? 

596
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,699
I mean, it's been like, it's 
been 10 years. 

597
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,199
Why do we still have this? 
Like, yeah, I mean, we need to 

598
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,400
count of traction. 
We kind of, we need to abstract 

599
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,800
everything away from the user. 
And I mean, if you look at the 

600
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,600
Internet, it's a mess. 
You know, in the back end, it's 

601
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,900
a complete mess. 
It's America that the internet 

602
00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:56,600
actually usually works. 
And, and we don't ask anyone to 

603
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,300
understand TCP IP. 
It's like no one knows how it 

604
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:02,300
works. 
It just wax and this is kind of 

605
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:04,800
this where we need to get. 
Yeah, that's why we can if we 

606
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,200
need to make it, you know, no 
ship it to the normies. 

607
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,700
This is like, we don't know if 
you remember but at the last 

608
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:14,000
epcon I think I was moderating 
the panel you were on the panel,

609
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,500
but we did a panel together 
about this very topic about user

610
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:21,100
experience. 
And it was, I think, I say, I 

611
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:25,000
don't remember, but I think, I 
think the yeah, we've been 

612
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,600
talking about this for years. 
And I mean, it's getting a 

613
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,900
little bit. 
It better be. 

614
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,700
The thing I used to say, was, 
you know, we need, we need to 

615
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:34,700
look at the metric of like 
monthly active, non crypto nerds

616
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,200
joining, right? 
And I think from the, from the 

617
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,500
wallet side, like their husbands
and advancements. 

618
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,100
I'm a big fan of Zengo like what
they're doing with threshold 

619
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:48,100
signature and I think 
cryptography is making it a lot 

620
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:52,100
easier for users to onboard. 
And of course there's not like 

621
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:56,100
full custody but it is better 
than like it's much better than 

622
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:58,400
like, being on an exchange and 
then on the other side, Much 

623
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,300
better than having like, worry 
about your seat phrase. 

624
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,500
So I cryptography is making it 
easier for people, to, for 

625
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,800
people to build, you know, 
products that make it easier for

626
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,700
people to end up using the, you 
know, the final like crypto and 

627
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:11,600
in general. 
And then, you know, I think like

628
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:17,000
looking at ZK, Bridges, and ZK, 
V Ms, and how they're going to 

629
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,400
allow a lot of this up. 
They're going to allow like this

630
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,700
vs, abstracted away, I think. 
Yeah. 

631
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:24,800
I think like, in the end of 
cryptography is, is actually a 

632
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,000
catalyst for a lot of great user
experiences. 

633
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:32,100
It properly and, you know, with 
the right with the right sort of

634
00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:36,500
like interfaces, did I tell you 
that on nose chain that's going 

635
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:42,000
to be basically, there's 
currently a pilot with 2,000 

636
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
credit cards, they had their 
real Visa credit cards. 

637
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,700
They have credit card numbers. 
They're backed with X Dy on 

638
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:54,000
noses chain and and you can pay 
base you hold them yourself. 

639
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,000
So basically, the credit card is
also a A key. 

640
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,600
So it's also how do I want it? 
And you hold them yourself. 

641
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,600
No one has custody. 
You know you know you know those

642
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,900
crypto back credit cards, 
usually the person who issues 

643
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,500
them, they always have custody 
but basically with this credit 

644
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:16,100
card you have custody and and 
you tap it on the Visa terminal 

645
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:19,000
and there's some there's a 
payment provider in between what

646
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,800
kind of takes your ex, I 
Transit, you know, who converts 

647
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,200
into u.s. dollars or Euros or 
whatever and pays and entered 

648
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,300
into the Visa payment Network. 
This is I mean basically this is

649
00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:34,000
this is cool enough. 
But if the if the person you're 

650
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:40,500
paying also is has one of those 
accounts or gnosis chain, you 

651
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,100
would actually bypass the Visa 
system. 

652
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:45,100
So you basically, you would tap 
your credit card, which is also 

653
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,200
your Hardware wallet and it 
would automatically just send it

654
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,700
from one account to the other. 
And this is the kind of user 

655
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,800
experience that we need. 
This is what we need. 

656
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:55,500
It's like, augmentative user 
experience. 

657
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:58,000
Yeah, it's kind of, like, you 
don't need to know. 

658
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,500
How it works. 
So, for instance, I don't know. 

659
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:03,700
So, for instance, PPS, did you 
know, it's sat-nav on your 

660
00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:05,400
phone? 
You use it all the time. 

661
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,100
Do you know how special 
relativity, kind of impacts the 

662
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:11,800
way that kind of, that the 
satellites kind of determine 

663
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,000
where you are. 
No, you're freaking don't. 

664
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:16,700
It's like, and it's just wax and
this is kind of how I see. 

665
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,100
Trust is Bridges. 
So basically you shouldn't have 

666
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:20,800
to know about the structures 
Bridges. 

667
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,200
They should just be that 
basically should just work and 

668
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,200
that should be the general user 
experience. 

669
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,700
Totally, totally. 
I don't know if you remember. 

670
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:32,000
In Black, I don't know, probably
made the video a parody of the 

671
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,900
current situation. 
How is the process to more 

672
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,000
people is called a lemon going? 
I'd really recommend that 

673
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,300
because it's a parody of all the
process that you need to pass 

674
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:42,500
to. 
We link to it in the show notes.

675
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:46,200
Remember this? 
It wasn't black and he's like 

676
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:51,000
the full process that you need 
to follow to be able to use, 

677
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,100
right? 
And it was, it was so fun, but 

678
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:58,000
the, the sad part is that we are
in the same place. 

679
00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:01,200
We have not improved anything of
that, or that is a feeling that 

680
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,300
we are, stealing asking users 
for Holiday turkeys, they lose 

681
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:10,500
them people don't realize that. 
If you tell this worth to 

682
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:13,600
someone, he can install you, 
even we have seen. 

683
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,800
We have so in our channels 
people telling other ones that 

684
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,400
they are damaged support and 
they stole money from them. 

685
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:27,500
So people are easy yet. 
It's not yet, Authority is 

686
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:29,900
education. 
Also, because I mean, I think in

687
00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:35,100
general people that are outside,
these are not used to control 

688
00:39:35,100 --> 00:39:39,000
keys to be responsible of that, 
and we need to relocate. 

689
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,900
And it's not. 
There's also usually happens. 

690
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:44,700
This happened to me like this 
still happens to me. 

691
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:48,600
Where, for instance, I in my 
power app, as for a DNS name, I 

692
00:39:48,607 --> 00:39:50,900
put my urgent. 
He had his name, but Arjun 

693
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:53,200
doesn't support gnosis Jay and I
really think about it was like, 

694
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,200
here there's my you guys name. 
Like there were the one that I 

695
00:39:55,207 --> 00:39:57,400
use on my phone. 
So, and then I was talking to 

696
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,700
Patricia. 
As well, bring those back is 

697
00:39:59,707 --> 00:40:04,000
going to be hard. 
Yeah remember at the very 

698
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:10,100
beginning, a used Nazis multi 
sick and it was very good at the

699
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,300
moment, really secure and then 
no she says happened. 

700
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:18,300
And now the utility of a multi 
multi signature wallet is has 

701
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:20,200
improved a lot. 
Also, the gas. 

702
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,200
So basically when we first 
created the multisig, like basic

703
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,300
gas was not a thing. 
Basically, it was super cheap. 

704
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,900
Anyway, so basically the you 
didn't pay Pay any attention to 

705
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:32,200
it and I know that basically 
just probably about a year ago 

706
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,800
or something. 
Something, I emptied, our last 

707
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,100
96 and then basically, it was so
freaking expensive. 

708
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:40,200
I paid. 
Like I paid just to get the 

709
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,000
funds out. 
I paid like two thousand dollars

710
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,500
in gas or something just to get 
the funds out. 

711
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:53,000
We know to Modern safe for 
takeoff to move the funds from 

712
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,500
the old one to the. 
New one was so expensive. 

713
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,900
But now, for example, you have 
no, she's safe. 

714
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:02,000
In different networks with the 
same address, so do not do 

715
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,800
something. 
Yeah, so generally the 

716
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,100
Assumption should be and this is
something that basically that is

717
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,900
a big noses, save usability 
problem. 

718
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,800
They're busy on E, 08, you can 
kind of force that you can get 

719
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,100
the same address on different 
networks and with a safe Yukon. 

720
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:19,400
So, basically there's some 
networks, you can brute force 

721
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,000
it, but even then it's not easy.
And there's some networks where 

722
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,500
basically, if you send it to the
same address it's just gone. 

723
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:29,300
And we've actually had this and 
they Really large amount of 

724
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:31,800
funds, like, seriously like 
stupid amounts of funds. 

725
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,800
Like, tens of millions were sent
to the wrong Network because the

726
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,700
person wasn't paying attention 
and didn't do a test 

727
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:42,600
transactions, like, I mean, 
yeah, I mean, I mean, it's on 

728
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,500
them for not doing a test 
transaction, but it's also on us

729
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,600
a little bit because, you know, 
shouldn't be this easy to make a

730
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,800
mistake. 
It's like, that's who I really 

731
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,700
didn is. 
If you have different addresses 

732
00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:55,300
in different networks, it's 
crazy. 

733
00:41:55,300 --> 00:42:00,500
Sometimes to use it. 
Also, the sample we only have 

734
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:04,500
ens in one network unless you 
use centralized providers to 

735
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,800
translate it. 
And that's also another problem 

736
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,400
of disability because you cannot
tell someone you in his name, in

737
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,700
one network, it's not going to 
be the same another one or is, 

738
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:17,000
who knows? 
Oh, you have to decide whether 

739
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,600
registry is where you can update
it. 

740
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,200
And so on, we're having an e, NS
Bridge. 

741
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Build, you know, sustain these 
with a good way to be nice. 

742
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,000
But yeah, it's I mean, it's all 
of it. 

743
00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:29,200
I think there are so many 
Usability questions. 

744
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,700
But yeah, but I think kind of 
onboarding people and kind of 

745
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:35,700
seeing where they go wrong and 
then fixing that this is what we

746
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:36,600
need to do. 
Yeah. 

747
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,500
Going back to the point. 
We need to improve the stability

748
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:41,900
to get more people involved, 
Eason to increase the 

749
00:42:41,900 --> 00:42:44,700
concentration at the end, this 
is all about the Central 

750
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:46,900
Station. 
This is also that something that

751
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:50,100
Poe app does really. 
Well, I mean, they've minted 5 

752
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:52,200
million, perhaps. 
I mean, that's adoption that's 

753
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,400
like, you know, it's not quite 
like, I mean, it's not like 

754
00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:59,800
Google, but, I mean it. 
It's not five billion people but

755
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,100
five million people in times of 
your you know, for web three 

756
00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:06,100
project that is massive. 
Yeah, looking through looking at

757
00:43:06,107 --> 00:43:10,300
the list easy looking at the 
list of people powerful people 

758
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,000
create it it's not all web 
stuff. 

759
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,100
It's like, hey Jim's birthday or
whatever. 

760
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:17,900
You know, like there's the 
people using Pro out that that 

761
00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:21,400
are not probably not like native
crypto people or like people who

762
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,900
come to conferences like this 
and you can make it on your. 

763
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,900
So I was, I mean, I was at 
dinner last night and we made it

764
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,600
A poem for the people, you know,
just sitting there like between 

765
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:33,600
between main course and dessert.
We made a poem and we 

766
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,800
distributed it for to the people
out there, you know? 

767
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,500
And like 50 people redeemed it. 
And so basically, no. 

768
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,600
It's like all the 50 people. 
We wear that dinner and have a 

769
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,900
poet from that dinner and 
basically, what, on on the phone

770
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:48,600
like, it was. 
Yeah, it was super easy to make 

771
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,600
yeah. 
Yeah, they have these, they were

772
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,700
selling these nice, nice poet 
cards here. 

773
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,200
And I've seen you in. 
So you can put your pole up in 

774
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,300
here. 
And you guys want to go out? 

775
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:05,000
Yeah. 
I want to live stream pot 

776
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,000
distribution here. 
This is cool. 

777
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:08,100
Anyway. 
Yeah. 

778
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:12,300
So this is a cool thing to like 
being able to have your thing 

779
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:14,800
inside. 
Yeah, you know, it'll take me to

780
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,500
that, we are minting a poet. 
Yeah. 

781
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,800
Nice 3.0 in Berlin and September
20 22. 

782
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,200
Hmm. 
Here you go. 

783
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,100
Yeah. 
And and what's nice about this 

784
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:28,700
too is cat You how many people I
met you before me? 

785
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:30,200
Yeah. 
But you can also put like your 

786
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,200
telegram handle in the 
description so you can kind of 

787
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:38,700
it's a good way to share your 
Telegram and loosen her bucks 

788
00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:41,900
but I'm so lucky. 
I met you. 

789
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,200
Yes it is. 
First pull up to but he has to 

790
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:45,800
know. 
Yeah. 

791
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,500
His to now but it was his first 
one and he met Patricio. 

792
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:51,100
Yeah. 
It's like the golden tube. 

793
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,800
Yeah. 
It's kind of it's a way of kind 

794
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,200
of displaying and Writing your 
own life experience. 

795
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,700
I think this is also something 
that would benefit from a layer 

796
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:06,000
of ZK stuff on top, right? 
So basically, I mean, Maybe not,

797
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,600
maybe I don't want everyone to 
see the fictitious example 

798
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,900
because I'm, you know, I'm a 
boring mom. 

799
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,700
But say I'll say I check into 
like Kid Carter something like 

800
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,500
maybe, I don't want everyone to 
see that but you know just, you 

801
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:21,700
know, the kid cut crowd. 
So it's kind of like yeah. 

802
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:26,300
I mean it's like yeah yeah. 
I mean, I think that, that sort 

803
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:28,900
of thing. 
We'll come and it I mean for for

804
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:32,400
things like poems but also for 
things just like your General 

805
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,100
Financial travel, a pair of 
privacy and transparency. 

806
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,200
What's what do you guys? 
Expect is going to happen 

807
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,100
tonight. 
Hmm, I do fun. 

808
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:46,300
Even if it's going to happen. 
Yeah, you know I mean so 

809
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:49,500
basically they've tested it so 
many times. 

810
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,400
Yeah, the video. 
Yeah and I think it's got It's 

811
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,300
going to be okay? 
I mean there's just so many 

812
00:45:55,300 --> 00:46:00,100
different you know. 
Nations of clients, I mean 

813
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:02,800
because now you have two clients
right to based you have like the

814
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,600
consensus layer and execution 
layer and in principle, they 

815
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:11,200
should work in any combination. 
And I think basically just just 

816
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,100
for context of this, there's two
clients was a consensus and 

817
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,200
execution. 
And for each of those, there's 

818
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,600
like three or four clients. 
Exactly. 

819
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,200
Yeah. 
The combinations. 

820
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,100
Are like 20 combinations? 
Yeah. 

821
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:26,100
Yeah. 
And so basically, I think the 

822
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:27,100
worst that will happen. 
Happen. 

823
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,200
Is that one of these 
combinations with Affair? 

824
00:46:30,900 --> 00:46:33,100
I think I mean what would you 
think it's not going to? 

825
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:35,400
I don't think so. 
Well I mean who knows? 

826
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,200
Maybe maybe tomorrow I can 
answer that question but I have 

827
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,300
the feeling that this has been 
testing several times in 

828
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:45,000
different networks so I mean I 
have a good buy on that 

829
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,500
obviously so in this case is 
gonna happen, this whole what 

830
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,400
happened but even the test run. 
So basically like they were 

831
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,600
always some more things that 
kind of didn't go exactly 

832
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,100
according to plan. 
So basically I would be Chrissy.

833
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,300
I think busy all in all it's 
going to be fine. 

834
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,600
It'll be completely fine but 
basically yeah. 

835
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,500
Is it going to be without 
hiccups evil? 

836
00:47:04,900 --> 00:47:08,400
Yeah, I mean obviously I 
remember during the Genesis for 

837
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,600
example, I remember that I think
was pretty him. 

838
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,900
We're not able to propose lock, 
something like that. 

839
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:17,400
They release a fixing in a 
couple of hours, we publish it 

840
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,400
and everything started to work 
perfectly. 

841
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,300
They never work. 
But was this kind of big fix 

842
00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,000
that you need to do the the 
Nida? 

843
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,100
Yeah so I thought I think in You
time all combinations work, I 

844
00:47:29,107 --> 00:47:32,700
just think that basically maybe 
not at, you know, unblock one. 

845
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:36,500
So it's yeah. 
Maybe suddenly you realize that 

846
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,200
my clients not working but he's 
doesn't mean that it doesn't 

847
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,900
really work, it means nothing 
bad for the network. 

848
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:45,400
But basically, this is kind of 
the level of Hiccup that I would

849
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,600
expect. 
I wouldn't expect like for you 

850
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,800
hear him to go down. 
Yeah. 

851
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,400
So, but yeah, I mean, it's a 
real challenge may be the only 

852
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,700
people are realizing how hard is
it. 

853
00:47:56,900 --> 00:48:00,900
And the thing is, is so many 
pieces is so many Denali so many

854
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:02,800
clients. 
So many implementations 

855
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,200
standards mean. 
It has been that a lot but it's 

856
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:11,400
a lot of work but I have a 
feeling, obviously, I totally 

857
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,300
dropped some development that 
have been done. 

858
00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:17,500
So I mean, from my point of 
view, even I mean we are in the 

859
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,000
middle from the point of view of
the are not because because we 

860
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,200
are waiting, if something 
happens, so we are nervous 

861
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,200
because of that. 
But indeed, the the Feeling is 

862
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,100
that everything is going to be 
well, maybe some fix it but the 

863
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:33,700
normal things. 
Yeah, I agree. 

864
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:35,900
So, what's next for what's next 
week? 

865
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:39,300
No sustained ecosystem and 
except for this amazing credit 

866
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:41,800
card thing. 
It's cool, right? 

867
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:44,300
This is my little house. 
So, how does that work? 

868
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:48,200
Where how does the credit card? 
Also turn, how is the credit 

869
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,700
card, also, a harder wallet and 
it's from a company named konjam

870
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:55,400
and basically, it's like, it's 
like a key in a Critic. 

871
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:56,800
I mean, basically, what they've 
been around. 

872
00:48:57,300 --> 00:49:02,100
Is that has made them for a 
while and like, you know, card 

873
00:49:02,100 --> 00:49:06,800
shaped cookies as far as, you 
know, the degrade, the key on 

874
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,800
the chip and use the protocol. 
And it seems that there is a 

875
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,000
protocol has an empty payload. 
So they take benefit of that, 

876
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,200
they put the signature on that 
pillow. 

877
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:22,500
So when you send to the cellar, 
if you are able to protect the 

878
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,100
Creator, one, you prefer to keep
the one, but why should you use 

879
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:28,800
the regular Visa? 
But I'm not surprised, I'm not 

880
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,100
an expert on that. 
Yes, yes, yeah. 

881
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:34,700
I don't know anything about the 
research protocol, but that's me

882
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:37,700
neither. 
Yeah, I learned a lot about 

883
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:40,200
payment providers in the last 
half year, since we've kind of 

884
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,500
been working on this and the 
payment SEC. 

885
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:44,600
It's a mess. 
It's like a complete mess. 

886
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,500
There's like 20 companies you go
through on a regular basis for 

887
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:50,500
whatever reason, and then 
basically. 

888
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,700
Yeah. 
So basically, the, the way that 

889
00:49:52,700 --> 00:49:56,300
it's actually handed is 
basically the point of sale 

890
00:49:56,300 --> 00:49:58,800
software So basically there's 
companies will kind of hand in 

891
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,100
the point-of-sale bomb and 
Company. 

892
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:05,000
We're working with they have a 
million point of sale terminals 

893
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,200
in Europe. 
So basically when you tap your 

894
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,800
credit card, I don't know your 
bakery or something, they may 

895
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,500
run this software and this can 
be updated remotely. 

896
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:17,900
So basically that's kind of 
their part of the payment stack 

897
00:50:18,300 --> 00:50:20,000
and this is who we integrate, 
okay? 

898
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,900
But that they're building 
software that's like 

899
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,700
standardized across with like 
other payments software's term. 

900
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Final. 
Yeah. 

901
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,400
It's like ingenico or any of 
these other ones like they all 

902
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,800
run by the same standards. 
I assume they would have like 

903
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,300
the same standards but obviously
I don't, I don't know. 

904
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:39,900
It's like it's like to me. 
It's all, you know, like payment

905
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:43,300
back end. 
Yeah, I think the the payments 

906
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:47,900
say even though it's a mess it's
probably decently standards. 

907
00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:50,200
Like, if you go to a place like 
Indonesia, they always have like

908
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,700
six terminals. 
Yeah. 

909
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,300
And I think nothing works. 
But yeah. 

910
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:58,200
So coming back to Moses. 
This is chain ecosystem. 

911
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,200
What's really exciting? 
And like, what are you most 

912
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,000
excited about coming. 
I'm excited about many things. 

913
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,200
So, basically, one of the things
I'm excited about is make a v, 3

914
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,700
is coming to gnosis chain very 
shortly. 

915
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,700
We still owe them. 
Some back-end support. 

916
00:51:14,700 --> 00:51:16,500
It's like, yeah, but it's 
happening. 

917
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:18,800
I mean, it's a general-purpose 
change. 

918
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,100
So we see all the defy 
Primitives. 

919
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:21,900
And so, what are their very 
much? 

920
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:24,000
Not a T5 First Chain. 
So basically, it's very much 

921
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,200
like a, like a A human Centric 
chain. 

922
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:34,900
So basically The Sacketts is on 
no sustained you bi product. 

923
00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:38,500
It's your like you bi project 
like you know decentralized web 

924
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:43,500
of trust based you bi project I 
think fundamentally Ubi is 

925
00:51:43,508 --> 00:51:46,900
something that we all need in 
the next couple of years. 

926
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:50,800
If you want to society, to kind 
of keep existing in a nice 

927
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,100
fashion without, you know, like,
escalating inequality and so 

928
00:51:55,100 --> 00:51:56,700
kind of baking it into the 
protocol. 

929
00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:00,600
Not big didn't but it's kind of 
one of the core pillars of the 

930
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,600
things that are on those chains 
are currently there's 200,000 

931
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,600
accounts and then yeah Power Up 
is are not on gnosis chain. 

932
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,800
That obviously also pertains to 
individual people or so BC. 

933
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,100
Its kind of your individual 
curated experiences and lots of 

934
00:52:14,100 --> 00:52:16,800
doubts. 
Our new stainless like $1500 and

935
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:19,600
out tooling and out. 
What to do drawing lots of 

936
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,400
doubting it's kind of one of the
things we kind of made sure to 

937
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,700
build to basically make it as as
nice as Place as possible for 

938
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:30,800
the house because maybe you have
dialed you have people kind of 

939
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,100
that kind of ties, you know? 
Well into each other, you can 

940
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,200
have things like, you know, the 
things we've talked about 

941
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,500
forever. 
Like joined stakeholder ship in 

942
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:44,900
Ventures and so on you can you 
can distribute funds from now is

943
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:49,000
to People by kind of having that
group currencies with their with

944
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,000
their web of trust issued 
suppers. 

945
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,400
And so on the really there's 
really good ways to integrate 

946
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,900
all of These things, I am so 
busy of currently. 

947
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:03,800
We are obviously, I mean, 
obviously, you guys know. 

948
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,300
So basically we merge with XII 
and XIII was very much proof of 

949
00:53:07,300 --> 00:53:08,900
us, are you? 
So there's like twenty one, you 

950
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:12,000
know, authorities that kind of 
validate the network and we have

951
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:16,900
launched the proof of stake be 
contain exactly the same as the,

952
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,600
the theorem we can chain and 
that we can chain now has over 

953
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,600
100,000 validates this. 
So basically, we will also have 

954
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,000
the much just like a theorem 
just it's It's a mess because 

955
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,800
it's different consensus and 
b11. 

956
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:34,200
It's like difference between 30 
and nurses that mix little 

957
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,000
harder to make it make it 
harder, but we will get there. 

958
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,700
Yeah, and then in the next 
week's, so basically, then it 

959
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:44,900
will be the most decentralized 
Network after etherium. 

960
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:47,900
So basically, if your mom has 
400,000, validators knows his 

961
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:51,000
chain has 100,000. 
Then where we think there's 

962
00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:54,500
steak at home movement, it's 
important. 

963
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:57,600
I mean, this is also why we've 
partnered With it'll just 

964
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:03,900
because it's I mean 24 true for 
for claiming credible neutrality

965
00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:09,600
and permission is innovation he 
knew need to have a network that

966
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:12,200
belongs to everyone and 
something that belongs to 

967
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,700
everyone belongs to no one. 
It's like the credible 

968
00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:17,500
neutrality of the base layer. 
I think this is kind of kind of 

969
00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:21,200
a virtue that we have lost over 
the last couple of years when 

970
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,600
people are kind of scrambled to 
just build stuff and I think 

971
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,600
this is something that we need 
to reclaim. 

972
00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:29,600
I'm like the cypherpunk 2022 
movement. 

973
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,500
Yeah. 
And I mean, basically this Vibes

974
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,300
really well with, you know, like
the tornado issues, we think 

975
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:39,400
privacy is a human, right? 
So basically, we think kind of 

976
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,900
if you look at how much privacy 
has been taken from us over the 

977
00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:47,700
last 30 or 40 years and it's 
it's only getting worse. 

978
00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:51,500
So basically all your audio 
payment data it's like banks are

979
00:54:51,500 --> 00:54:54,800
allowing people access to like 
the synthesize data of, you 

980
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,400
know, you did you spending and 
that's Atrocious and I don't 

981
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,300
think that should be happening. 
So, basically, you should be 

982
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:03,700
able to kind of, you know, opt 
out of the opt-out and 

983
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:07,500
basically, and I mean cash, 
which is kind of the untrackable

984
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,300
form of money. 
Currently, this is being phased 

985
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,500
out. 
No, that's, that's many places 

986
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:17,600
you can pay with cash anymore. 
Yeah, baby somehow it's been 

987
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,500
happening slowly, you know, you 
know, the story about Frog, who 

988
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:24,900
kind of sits in a pot of water 
and you know, you apparently it 

989
00:55:24,900 --> 00:55:26,600
turns out, it's bullshit. 
It's not true. 

990
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:30,000
But I think it's a good, it's a 
good simile. 

991
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,300
So, basically, there's this 
frog, it sits in a pot of water,

992
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:36,900
and they see if the water boils 
obviously, you know, you put it 

993
00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:40,200
in and it jumps out, but if you 
put it in the water and it's 

994
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:44,000
like nice, nice and cozy room, 
temperature, and then you slowly

995
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,900
increase the temperature, the 
frogs it's Phillips it and it's 

996
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:51,500
it's until it until it's dead. 
And this is kind of, this is, 

997
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:53,800
this is how I it turns out it's 
bullshit. 

998
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,100
Apparently, the frogs, I mean, 
this is something that green 

999
00:55:56,100 --> 00:55:58,900
piece of her. 
Made out to kind of don't rental

1000
00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:01,000
home. 
Yeah, it's a green peas. 

1001
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,800
Made this up for like an advert 
against climate change in the 

1002
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,700
nineties. 
So we see this people. 

1003
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,500
Yeah, so yeah. 
So, but apparently, it's not 

1004
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:15,400
true, but for us, it's true. 
So basically, for us busy, we 

1005
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,300
are the frogs. 
We are the frogs and basic 

1006
00:56:17,300 --> 00:56:20,900
privacy has been stripped from 
us like, one bit at a time. 

1007
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,700
So, basically, like it. 
I mean, used to be funny, right?

1008
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:26,600
Basically, the egg used to say, 
don't say this on the phone. 

1009
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:28,600
And otherwise, you know, people 
will be listening. 

1010
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,100
We now know if you know 
everything was being monitored 

1011
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:36,300
and somehow somehow Ed Snowden 
is still the bad guy who was you

1012
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:41,400
know in Exile and in in in 
Russia and we're making it like 

1013
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,400
this is no big deal it's like 
this is a freaking big deal. 

1014
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:48,900
It's like your privacy is yours 
and yes I mean tornado cash was 

1015
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:51,500
used by some bad guys but it's a
tool. 

1016
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,600
It's a tool. 
We should all be using it. 

1017
00:56:54,000 --> 00:57:00,300
Hmm and basically in They may be
integrating it so deeply into 

1018
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:02,600
the protocol that everyone uses 
it. 

1019
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,500
This will kind of remove the 
problem of kind of helping the 

1020
00:57:07,500 --> 00:57:10,500
terrorists because basically 
terrorists will be like point 

1021
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:13,900
one of a percent or something. 
They won't be there to 50% 

1022
00:57:13,900 --> 00:57:15,600
whatever. 
So yeah. 

1023
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,300
But I mean in the okay, I mean, 
I don't know the actual numbers 

1024
00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:22,400
of turn into cash and how many 
criminals were actually using 

1025
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,100
it. 
But this idea that crypto has 

1026
00:57:25,100 --> 00:57:29,100
been used by criminals and and 
terrorists and is primarily used

1027
00:57:29,100 --> 00:57:33,000
by criminals and terrorists is 
like a total if it's a false 

1028
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:38,500
idea and it's a debunked idea 
and it isn't it did actually see

1029
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:42,200
quite so yeah, basically if you 
looked at the numbers, so basic 

1030
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,000
was greatly exact exaggerated in
the media and I think in 

1031
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,200
contestant at 80% and basically 
there was there was a chain 

1032
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,100
analysis report that said like 
30% or something. 

1033
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,300
So I probably trust that 
analysis report but basically 

1034
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:59,700
it's Busy. 
If it's like, if it's like 99% 

1035
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:03,200
bad guys and vitalik mine. 
We I mean, we kind of, we have 

1036
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,400
to ask ourselves. 
Are we the baddies, anything? 

1037
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,200
No, we're not the baddies. 
So I think we just build 

1038
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,400
technology where, you know, 
there's a very obvious first 

1039
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,900
adopter because their, you know,
their need for obfuscation is 

1040
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:21,600
larger but, you know, there's a 
very legitimate reason for our 

1041
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,300
skating and I have used to Nato 
cash in the in the past big 

1042
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:27,800
city. 
It's like, I mean it's I've used

1043
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,600
it mostly for the use case that 
I wanted a fresh address and I 

1044
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,000
wanted to fund it with gas 
money. 

1045
00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:34,600
This is kind of this is and I 
think this is what most people 

1046
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:38,300
but you stood for totally, if 
you want to send money to a 

1047
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:43,300
friend without revealing, what 
what what how much you have you 

1048
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:44,800
need to use this kind of tool in
otherwise. 

1049
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,700
It's easy to track so at the end
or an exchange I mean yeah I'm 

1050
00:58:48,707 --> 00:58:51,300
like yeah I know it's 
centralized layoffs. 

1051
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:56,500
Yeah yeah, yeah. 
And I have done this. 

1052
00:58:56,900 --> 00:59:00,500
I've used crack in that way. 
Kind of, let's pick me do it. 

1053
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:02,200
I did. 
Yeah I think they've removed 

1054
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,100
that. 
Use case largely because 

1055
00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:05,800
basically now you only have one 
Pain address. 

1056
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,400
You used to be able to generate 
as many pay in addresses as you 

1057
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,600
wanted. 
And now they no longer have 

1058
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,000
that. 
So basically that's kind of like

1059
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,900
one. 
But yeah, in principle I think 

1060
00:59:15,900 --> 00:59:19,500
privacy tooling we need this the
skeleton technology here. 

1061
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,300
Everything is public. 
Everything should not be public 

1062
00:59:22,300 --> 00:59:23,300
sex. 
Like everything should be 

1063
00:59:23,300 --> 00:59:24,200
trusted. 
Yes. 

1064
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,200
Should everything be public? 
Absolutely not. 

1065
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,400
So So, don't worry. 
And for me, the problem is not 

1066
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,000
the technology that problem 
obviously is is a people for 

1067
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,900
somebody, my in that other is 
use a mobile phone to Pune to 

1068
00:59:36,900 --> 00:59:38,900
put a bomb. 
Should we buy mobile phones? 

1069
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:40,400
Because of that makes no sense, 
right? 

1070
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,200
So at the end the problem is not
the technology is how we use it 

1071
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:49,000
so it security theater it's kind
of like I mean I'm II probably 

1072
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,800
end up on a no-fly list for 
saying this but it's like the 

1073
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,700
TSA right? 
So basically it's like I could 

1074
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:58,600
think of so many ways of kind of
Smuggling like Contraband and 

1075
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,400
you know, it dangerous things on
board, you know, bypassing the 

1076
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,400
TSA because you know what 
they're looking for bombs in 

1077
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,600
shoes. 
I mean like yeah and I mean if 

1078
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,000
you look at how much time it 
costs us and how unpleasant it 

1079
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,900
makes the experience of. 
Yeah, I mean but it gives people

1080
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:21,500
the illusion of security and it 
gives control to the state and 

1081
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:29,000
somehow this is security, you 
know that big Clever on the on 

1082
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,100
the escape hatch in the plane. 
Yeah. 

1083
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,600
What one way to and way to take 
over a plane? 

1084
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,200
I guess pull that big lever. 
It's right there in front of 

1085
01:00:38,207 --> 01:00:42,800
everyone. 
I have one more point I wouldn't

1086
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,000
and it's kind of its admittedly,
you know, seeing what we've 

1087
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,500
talked about know in the past, 
you know, our so it's on the 

1088
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:53,100
lighter side. 
But I want to, I want to start a

1089
01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:56,000
movement for like more 
age-appropriate swag. 

1090
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,500
So I I've been aged out of the 
swag. 

1091
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:03,000
So basically I pass all of these
boots and you know, like it's 

1092
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:08,800
like neon colored hats that glow
in the dark that busy you would 

1093
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,700
wear to a rave like you know 
just bring back the regular 

1094
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:13,200
t-shirts. 
The tote bags. 

1095
01:01:13,300 --> 01:01:16,800
Yeah we want these kinds of this
kind of Swag. 

1096
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,500
He wants me one, that's Wack 
Pack. 

1097
01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:23,100
You're probably looking for like
some like, Mommy Swag. 

1098
01:01:23,100 --> 01:01:26,400
Like must look like like like 
dap node pacifier. 

1099
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:32,800
Or kid bottle you will after 
making the gnosis gnosis 

1100
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,100
employees and friends. 
So, actually, it who have kids 

1101
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:43,000
we send them a, a onesie with an
hour, with a pacifier, you know,

1102
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,100
in the beginning? 
Yeah. 

1103
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,300
And everyone loves it. 
Yeah. 

1104
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:49,200
You know, I don't want that. 
But basically, I don't want a 

1105
01:01:49,207 --> 01:01:52,000
fanny pack either. 
I mean, it's kind of like, I 

1106
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,100
think I know that the quick is 
Wortham. 

1107
01:01:55,300 --> 01:01:56,500
I know this. 
I see it. 

1108
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,300
The time makes me feel very old 
but to me a fanny pack is 

1109
01:01:59,300 --> 01:02:02,200
something that, you know, my 
grandma said you needed to take 

1110
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,600
on holiday so you weren't 
robbed, you know, on the 

1111
01:02:04,607 --> 01:02:06,500
dangerous, Italian streets or 
something. 

1112
01:02:07,100 --> 01:02:10,200
Now it's going to be, I think 10
years, 10 years next year that 

1113
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:14,000
I've been in crypto and I 
definitely feel like a lot of 

1114
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,300
times I'm the oldest person in 
the room and buggy, right? 

1115
01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:20,800
Well I mean I don't think of it 
that way. 

1116
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:25,000
It's like, you know, there's 
those people who were like 

1117
01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:28,600
younger than I was was when I 
came into crypto who are just 

1118
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,700
getting into crypto. 
And yeah, there is a, there is a

1119
01:02:32,700 --> 01:02:35,700
generational Gap. 
I think it also that shoulder 

1120
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:38,700
like you know, the people who 
listen to epicenter like nobody 

1121
01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:40,700
under 30 is listening to 
epicenter. 

1122
01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:43,900
Yeah, that's true. 
If you are listening to this, 

1123
01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:50,900
let us know on Twitter tweeting.
Like my dad makes me listen to 

1124
01:02:50,900 --> 01:02:55,100
this. 
Thank you. 

1125
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,000
Thank you both for welcome for 
taking part in this. 

1126
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,100
And yeah, thanks for listening. 
Thanks for being part of this 

1127
01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:04,100
live stream and we'll see you 
again next week. 

1128
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:08,000
Thank you for joining us on this
week's episode. 

1129
01:03:08,300 --> 01:03:09,900
We release new episodes every 
week. 

1130
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:13,200
You can find And subscribe to 
the show on iTunes Spotify, 

1131
01:03:13,300 --> 01:03:16,400
YouTube SoundCloud or wherever 
you listen to podcast. 

1132
01:03:16,700 --> 01:03:19,500
And if you have a Google home or
Alexa device, you can tell it to

1133
01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:22,500
listen to the latest episode of 
the epicenter podcast, go to 

1134
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:25,600
epicenter, .t V /, subscribe for
a full list of places where you 

1135
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,200
can watch and listen, while 
you're there, be sure to sign up

1136
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,000
for the newsletter so you get 
new episodes in your inbox as 

1137
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:34,400
they're released if you want to 
interact with us guests or other

1138
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,600
podcast listeners, you can Us on
Twitter and please leave us a 

1139
01:03:37,607 --> 01:03:40,400
review on iTunes helps people 
find the show and we're always 

1140
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,600
happy to read them but thanks so
much and we look forward to 

1141
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:44,500
being back next week.