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This episode of epicenter 
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Hello, welcome to epicenter 

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Bitcoin the show, which talks 
about the Technologies, projects

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00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,700
and startups Drive And 
decentralization and the global 

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cryptocurrency Revolution. 
My name is Sebastian kouchuu and

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I'm Grand Valley in Ukraine re 
here on absurd f53, we have a 

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Yuna. 
Simpson, Ariana is Works. 

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A big goal. 
I was introduced to her when I 

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was at NAU New York trip this 
summer and I wanted to meet up 

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with her although it didn't 
happen but we kind of stayed in 

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touch a bit so and now that 
she's at because I thought well 

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that would be a great time to do
a podcast and talk about if they

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are things, they focus on, which
particularly is a multisig 

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soriana, it's good to have you 
on Hi. 

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Thanks for having me, excited to
be here. 

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Thanks for coming on. 
Maybe we could start off by 

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introducing yourself. 
Sure. 

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So my name is Arianna Simpson, 
as you mentioned I grew up in 

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Italy, moved to the US 
afterwards and I actually 

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studied nothing to do with 
computer science or cryptography

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or Bitcoin like most of us I 
think have studied International

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politics in Spanish but decided 
to I kind of fell into Bitcoin. 

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In about let's see a year and a 
half ago now and as soon as I 

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read the white paper I was 
hooked so I really started to 

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delve into it and started 
writing about it a lot. 

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And this was while I was still 
working at Facebook, I was 

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basically working with some of 
the big managed accounts on the 

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advertising side, but Bitcoin 
became my sort of real interest.

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And so I decided that ultimately
I wanted to move into the 

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industry. 
Full time, which is how I ended 

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up at Big go. 
Cool. 

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And so, you've been working a 
bit ghosts since August, I 

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believe. 
So, it's been a few months. 

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How are you enjoying it so far? 
Yep. 

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That's right. 
Yeah, it's been a great few 

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months, really exciting. 
Obviously, we're still, we're 

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still young and it's an industry
that's changing at the speed of 

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light. 
So, you know, never a dull 

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moment, but I think it's a 
really exciting time to be 

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working in Bitcoin, 
particularly, with a really 

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great. 
Game and I think even within an 

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industry that's fast-moving, our
focus on security really makes 

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it all the more exciting in the 
sense that security might not 

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always seem like the most the 
most thrilling field to work in.

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In the sense that a lot of 
what's happening is really 

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happening behind the scenes and 
so you're not necessarily always

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adding a cool new feature, but 
you are building infrastructure 

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and architecture that's really 
really important. 

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And you can't, you can never 
kind of, let the security become

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Legacy. 
You're constantly having to 

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update and make changes because 
the minute you start to say, 

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okay, I'm done. 
That's when you get, you start 

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to run into problems. 
So it's constantly evolving and 

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that makes it really exciting. 
Yeah. 

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And I guess we've seen a lot of 
things evolve and in terms of 

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usability of security, I mean I 
just like to pull out a few 

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examples here. 
I mean, before we start talking 

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about bit, go just under A year 
ago, we were having a discussion

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about how to safely secure your 
Bitcoins. 

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And at the time, you know, this 
was one of the solutions and 

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these I believe B, 38 cards were
another solution for those 

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listening. 
I'm holding up a Raspberry Pi 

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computer on which I installed 
Armory and print out paper 

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wallets in order to store my 
Bitcoins and then I think I gave

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one of those backups to a friend
on a On a USB stick. 

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And and I gave another backup to
another friend, and then these 

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little bit, 38 cards came out. 
I got a couple of those and same

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thing. 
I got three or four and I gave, 

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I gave them to a few of my 
friends and thinking, you know, 

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at the time that this was the 
way to seek your Bitcoins. 

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And and, and now a lot of 
companies, I'll be a few 

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companies like coin coin based 
and bit core coming up with 

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these really awesome and easy to
use solution for first. 

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Your Bitcoins with multisig. 
And so I guess just goes to show

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that in such a short amount of 
time. 

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We've gone leaps and bounds in 
terms of usability for securing 

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your Bitcoins. 
Yeah, I think that's really 

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important in the sense that, you
know, in this kind of field 

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you're constantly working to 
you're working against a 

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trade-off in the sense that the 
most Secure Storage is not 

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necessarily the most usable 
actually, I would say that There

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are in some sense, inversely 
proportional to one another. 

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So what we're really working on 
is making the security you know,

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as robust as possible but also 
allowing companies institutions 

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and individuals to transact 
because ultimately if you know 

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everybody is holding their 
Bitcoin in some sort of storage,

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that's not accessible, the will 
end up with no liquidity and 

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it's ultimately not A very 
viable system. 

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So building out the ability to 
actually transact and use the 

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money while still keeping it. 
Secure is really important. 

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Yeah, I mean I do think we will 
see and perhaps we have seen to 

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some extent that segregation as 
well, right. 

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Where on the one hand, you have 
some people who are like advance

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in your Bitcoin knowledge and 
they're like extremely 

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enthusiastic, and they want to 
sort of do it on their own, and 

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then they will use something 
like, you know, what you said, 

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you know, raspberry, offline, 
Armory, and those kind of 

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things. 
And then at the same time that 

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obviously doesn't scale and it 
doesn't It doesn't it's not 

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going to work for the masses and
it's really nice. 

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That thing we have this. 
This powerful thing we can do is

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especially with, with multisig, 
where you can get, you can get 

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both disability and you can get 
security. 

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And that's it's fantastic. 
No, because it's sort of like a 

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built-in two-factor 
authentication or at least. 

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That's one way you can be used, 
and I think it's really powerful

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in that way. 
Yeah. 

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And I mean things like to factor
author all layers that we've 

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added on to actual like you 
know, basic multisig wallets. 

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And the sense that, you know, we
think that each of those pieces 

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is very important, but it's not 
sufficient and so layering on 

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things like different levels of 
user permissions, corporate 

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treasury policies, spending 
limits again to factor off. 

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All of those are key pieces that
we've built on top of the 

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Technology. 
Because, you know, this is this 

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is serious stuff. 
If you're if you're looking to 

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hold or manage many, millions of
dollars you want to take the 

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appropriate precautions and so 
that's that's what we're 

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building. 
So, if you look at bit go, is it

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correct to say that the main 
focus of big cow is to build 

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Enterprise tool, and build sort 
of the Bitcoin wallet that the 

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companies? 
I will use in the future whether

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that is baby investment funds, 
holding Bitcoin or perhaps, also

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Merchants that decide they don't
want to convert all their income

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through payment processor at to 
fiat currency directly, but they

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want to keep holding Bitcoins 
between but you do need to have 

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some sort of new processes to 
make sure that happens in a 

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secure way. 
Yeah, I think that's exactly 

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right. 
So we do have a free consumer 

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wallet but we're definitely 
focused on the Enterprise side 

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of things. 
You know, multisig is important 

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for consumers as well, 
particularly if they're holding,

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you know, a sizable amount. 
But in terms of the additional 

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policies and rules and 
structures that we've built, 

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they're definitely Enterprise 
focused. 

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You know, if you have a company 
that needs to For example, give 

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its Auditors access to access to
its wallets and access to its 

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transactions, but without 
actually giving a handing over 

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the ability to spend, that's 
traditionally something that's 

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not been really possible or 
easy. 

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So you know, we've built in 
things like view, only access. 

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So if you have Auditors or 
accountants, who need to be able

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to see into your balances and 
your transaction history, that's

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something that you can do using 
one of our wallets. 

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We also, Have the ability to set
spending limits. 

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So the essentially all of these 
permissions are set at the 

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wallet level. 
So companies can decide to set 

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up different wallets with 
different spending levels, 

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different levels of admin view, 
only and spend only axis. 

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And basically what this does is 
it enables companies to 

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construct their, you know, their
storage and their financial 

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systems in the way that makes 
The most sense for them which is

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really I think making it a lot 
easier for companies and 

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institutions to hold and 
transact while still maintaining

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a really good. 
A really great security model. 

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I'm also kind of cues his, it 
seems to me what you guys are 

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building is very much something 
that for the future and I think 

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that's a good thing because if 
Beacon will be successful, I 

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totally believe that's going to 
be a huge. 

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Four days but it also seems that
like it's something weird game 

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and right now is probably really
limited. 

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So I'm curious right now is the 
demand that you are seeing 

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primarily from financial 
institutions holding Bitcoins or

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are you also starting to see, 
maybe some larger Merchants, 

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that are actually keeping some 
of the Bitcoins that consumers 

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spend with them? 
Sure. 

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Well, I would say that this is 
definitely something that will, 

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you know, we obviously see it as
a market that's expanding, but 

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even right now there's a lot of 
interest from you know, hedge 

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funds that are starting to hold 
a percentage of their total 

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assets in Bitcoin, who you know,
hedge funds may be buying and 

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trading off of it. 
They may be buying and holding 

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companies, you know, we have, 
for example, the the Bitcoin 

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shop that Holds a percentage of 
their Assets in Bitcoin and they

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use bit go to do so. 
And even institutions, for 

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example, the Bitcoin Foundation 
uses bit go and they use, they 

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use it not just for holding but 
also for their operational 

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needs. 
So yes, it's definitely a market

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that we see as growing which is 
I would say always what you want

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to look for when you're, you 
know, starting a company because

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if the markets kind of cast out,
Then that's not necessarily the 

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best Market to go after. 
But even now I think there is, 

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you know, there is substantial 
interest and we're constantly 

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onboarding new companies and new
financial institutions, we just 

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announced our partnership with 
tear exchange. 

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And we have a really interesting
model there because basically 

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their clients are using bit go 
to hold collateral for their 

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swaps product. 
And so that's, you know, that's 

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Our cold channel of people who 
are interested in trading, based

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off of Bitcoin using both 
Bitcoin and dollars. 

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And that's another thing we're 
involved in. 

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So it's, you know, the market 
isn't necessarily going to be 

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composed of just companies 
holding Bitcoin or just 

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institutions, or any one of 
those. 

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But we're really able to support
a variety and so that I think 

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expands the market substantially
cool. 

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00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,300
That's very interesting. 
No, it's not that. 

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The use case that follow-up but 
of course, makes total sense. 

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Now can you also talk a little 
bit before we move on to multi 

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say about B Ko as a company? 
And how many guy, how many 

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people are you now? 
I know you also did raise a very

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large round financing, which is 
Each type something we can we 

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can talk about briefly. 
Sure. 

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00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:07,300
So right now we are 11 
full-time. 

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We're growing a lot. 
So I was the third employee in 

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August and we're already at 
11:00. 

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00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,300
So that's, you know, quite a 
jump. 

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We're hiring a lot particularly 
on the engineering side. 

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Obviously, we're very technology
Focus. 

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So that's kind of core to our 
business so it's obviously makes

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We're hiring a lot of Engineers 
us and everybody else in the Bay

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Area. 
But yeah, so the companies the 

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companies definitely growing 
which is really exciting as 

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well. 
So in terms of investment, we 

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just in the past couple months, 
closed a 12 million-dollar 

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series a and that brought in a 
number of investors. 

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00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:58,100
It was led by red point. 
We have the former CEO of 

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00:13:58,300 --> 00:14:05,300
Verisign Stratton sklavos a 
number of Bitcoin related angels

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00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:09,500
and funds. 
So it's yeah I mean it's 

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definitely a group of investors 
that has a lot of Eric on the 

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former CTO of Netscape. 
It's a lot of investors who have

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a great deal of experience in 
the early, the Early internet 

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days as well as in the financial
space, which I think is Really 

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core in a lot of ways, we see 
what we're doing is similar to 

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what verisign did for the 
internet. 

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You know, when the internet was 
just kind of growing up, I would

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say. 
And so it makes a lot of sense 

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for us to have those people on 
board and I think it's really, 

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it's really great validation for
what we're building as well. 

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Now just maybe could be for 
maybe before the we get a little

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bit. 
More into the technical 

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background. 
I wanted to talk about one thing

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that we've sort of come back to 
again, and again with pretty 

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much every company we talked 
about, which is the regulation 

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side. 
But I think in this case, it is 

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00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,500
particularly interesting because
multisig itself is a very 

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interesting from a regulatory 
perspective. 

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No. 
Because if you let's say have a 

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two out of three multi sick and 
three different parties, hold 

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one key. 
Then, can you actually say 

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anyone is holding the key? 
It is. 

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It's not. 
So Clear in what way you can 

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assign ownership there. 
And then of course, that may 

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affect whether you will be 
considered a money transmitter 

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00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,900
or not. 
Whether you would have to get 

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certain licenses or not. 
So what stage is, maybe you're 

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00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:54,100
thinking at or red. 
You see this going Yeah, so we 

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do not see ourselves as, you 
know, anyone's money manager or 

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anything like that. 
We are not holding your funds. 

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At any point, we are really a 
software provider in the sense 

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,200
that we're building, the 
technology to allow individuals 

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00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,300
companies Etc to hold and 
transact with their coins. 

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But we are never responsible for
those coins were not holding And

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00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,400
so and that's I think, most 
clearly evidenced by the fact 

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00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,900
that, you know, and this is 
available on GitHub if you want 

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00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:34,300
to check it out, we have 
basically released a tool that 

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allows you to demonstrate that. 
You can actually retrieve your 

263
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:42,700
funds completely independently 
of bit go. 

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00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,200
So you know we don't have 
ownership or claim or the 

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00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,500
ability to transact with your 
funds. 

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So really, we are We're really 
only providing the basically 

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infrastructure in which to 
manage that. 

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00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:03,800
So if you go to GitHub right 
now, you can basically see that 

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00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,700
if you use your key and your 
backup key. 

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00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:12,400
So your two of the three keys, 
you don't even need bit goes key

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00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,200
in order to remove your funds. 
And I think that gives our car 

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00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,900
customers a lot of confidence to
because I mean this is a highly 

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00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:24,800
highly unlikely scenario but 
let's say Go is frozen or we 

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00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,200
ever, you know, fell off the 
face of the Earth, for whatever 

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00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,500
reason, everyone could still 
retrieve their funds. 

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00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,000
And I think that's really 
important and that kind of also 

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demonstrates the facts that the 
fact that we're not actually 

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holding anyone's funds. 
So in that regard because we're 

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00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:44,000
really more of a software 
platform. 

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00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,700
We don't like the money 
transmitter licenses, that type 

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00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:52,100
of stuff that apply to companies
like coinbase do. 

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00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,100
Don't apply to us because we're 
not actually falling under the 

283
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:57,900
same sphere, if that makes 
sense. 

284
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,800
No, I agree that it makes sense.
I think to the regulator, it 

285
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,900
might not make so much sense, 
however, it's difficult to 

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00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,700
consider me, I can definitely 
see how that's possible, but I 

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00:18:08,708 --> 00:18:14,500
think it's difficult to consider
a website as a software provider

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00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,700
because traditionally software 
is something that you install on

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00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:21,300
your, on your computer that runs
as a standalone, that doesn't 

290
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:23,500
run in a browser. 
You need to access the internet 

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00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:30,100
to get access to. 
So I mean, and we'll get back to

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00:18:30,108 --> 00:18:34,100
this in a minute, but I think 
that there might be some 

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00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,400
interesting questions that will 
arise in terms of Bitcoin 

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00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,300
regulation with regards to 
companies like bit go that 

295
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:45,500
essentially offer a software 
that runs in your browser which 

296
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:49,400
decrypts that which science 
transactions locally, and that 

297
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,100
doesn't. 
And those companies don't have 

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00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:53,600
access to your keys. 
And so I think it might be some,

299
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,200
some interesting questions to be
raised with regards to like, 

300
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,200
what are these companies, are 
they software providers? 

301
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,500
Are they with regards to 
regulation, like the bit license

302
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:03,800
or other regulation that may 
come? 

303
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,100
Where do they fall into that? 
So maybe this is a good time to 

304
00:19:07,108 --> 00:19:11,100
get into like multisig in a 
general sense. 

305
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,800
Can you just sort of just 
briefly introduce multi 

306
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,700
signature architecture and 
perhaps just talk about the 

307
00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:24,000
history and multisig? 
Or so. 

308
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,500
I think the the best way to 
think about multisig is that 

309
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,600
it's really solving a 
fundamental problem in by 

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00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,900
eliminating a single point of 
failure, in kind of the storage 

311
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:41,800
and the management of Bitcoin. 
So a traditional Bitcoin address

312
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,400
has one private key. 
And if that private key is lost 

313
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,800
or compromised, the funds are 
basically lost. 

314
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,500
And there's no, you know, if you
accidentally Throw away your 

315
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,900
hard drive. 
Oops, unfortunately. 

316
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,700
Nothing we can do about it. 
So that's that's kind of 

317
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,500
obviously problematic, 
especially if you're holding 

318
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,200
large sums of Bitcoin. 
And what multisig does is it 

319
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,400
eliminates that problem by 
basically allowing for the 

320
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,400
creation of multiple keys. 
So, the protocol itself allows 

321
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,100
for the creation of up to 15 
keys. 

322
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,000
And you can, you can basically 
create up to 15 keys and then 

323
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,500
require a smaller subset of 
those keys in order to sign, 

324
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,500
transactions and move your your 
funds around. 

325
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:39,600
So our Enterprise product uses a
two of three multisig scheme. 

326
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:45,900
So essentially there's a total 
of 33 keys and two of those are 

327
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:51,700
needed in order to transact. 
So we multisig has been around 

328
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:57,700
since Since 2012. 
And we have been working on R&D 

329
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:03,300
in this field led by Mike Bell, 
she who's our CTO since early 

330
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:08,900
2013, and we've actually had to 
do a lot of work on, not just 

331
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,400
big goes client, but actually, 
patching, a lot of the core 

332
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:16,300
libraries and things like that 
that are, you know, necessary in

333
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,100
order to have a robust 
infrastructure upon, which to 

334
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:23,700
build. 
So, that's kind of SD the origin

335
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:27,500
of multi-sig. 
Obviously, as I mentioned on top

336
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:32,200
of that, we've built things like
HD wallets, which we can go into

337
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400
in a little bit and then the 
series of corporate treasury 

338
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,200
policies and rules that, that I 
mentioned earlier. 

339
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,400
So the for those who've you who 
might be interested, so that 

340
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:51,000
multisig was introduced in a 
Bitcoin improving protocol a 

341
00:21:51,008 --> 00:21:56,200
proposal which H b, 16 13 
startled, the pay to script hash

342
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,600
you can get find that on on 
GitHub. 

343
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:04,100
It's it covers more than just 
multisig right? 

344
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:09,300
I mean it covers other things 
like being able to split keys I 

345
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,100
believe and other things that 
were introduced. 

346
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,600
There are some other things that
than just multisig that were 

347
00:22:14,608 --> 00:22:18,400
introduced with this. 
Pick one and improvements a 

348
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,600
proposal right here. 
Yeah, I think I think multisig 

349
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:29,000
is kind of the most I would say 
it's the most important aspect 

350
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,900
in the sense that it's the one 
that has the most, I would say 

351
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:41,100
revolutionary impact on storage.
In the sense that It has a 

352
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:48,000
tangible effect on reducing the 
probability of hacking or you 

353
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,400
know user error and obviously 
that's that's core to making 

354
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,400
Bitcoin more usable. 
And I think if we want to get 

355
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,500
Mass adoption of Bitcoin, people
need to be secure in the fact 

356
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:02,900
that their funds are not just 
going to evaporate. 

357
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:05,600
And multisig. 
I think goes a long way in terms

358
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,200
of doing that. 
Which is why we've, you know, 

359
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,600
multiple times is You'd calls 
for the industry to adopt, 

360
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,800
multisig and the amount of 
Bitcoin that's being held in P2,

361
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,800
sh addresses, is I think just 
under 1 & a half percent at this

362
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,800
point, which is still a very 
small alarmingly small, frankly 

363
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,200
percentage but it is growing 
quite rapidly. 

364
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,500
So there's a website. 
Actually, I believe it's called 

365
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,900
p2s H dot info. 
I was going to mention that. 

366
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,800
Yeah, it it's really interesting
to see how It's evolved over 

367
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,600
time and how it's really 
exploded in the last few weeks 

368
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:46,900
and months. 
Yeah. 

369
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:51,900
It's it's kind of nerdy. 
Yeah right now yeah I just 

370
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,100
checked and it looks like it's 
just over one point five 

371
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:55,900
percent. 
Yeah it is fascinating. 

372
00:23:55,900 --> 00:24:00,600
I think at the beginning of the 
year it was like 1,000 Bitcoins 

373
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,500
or something like that and even 
a month ago I mean I presume 

374
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:09,300
also the coinbase multisig V has
contributed to a lot of the 

375
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,700
explosion over Last month, but 
it's going up like crazy. 

376
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:17,700
It's like more than doubled in 
the last four weeks, I wanted to

377
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:22,800
ask another brief question 
regarding big go and especially 

378
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,400
the use of multisig there. 
So, you mentioned use, two out 

379
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,100
of three multisig. 
Do you also offer other 

380
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:36,000
possibilities for example, you 
know, two out of four or two out

381
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,400
of two, or one thing, that is a 
perhaps Particularly interesting

382
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,500
we talked about this with on the
podcast. 

383
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:51,400
We did on reality keys because 
he uses something like that 

384
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,600
although apparently there's a 
non-standard at the moment but 

385
00:24:55,900 --> 00:25:01,200
that you'd have a multi seek 
address where it's not like two 

386
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,400
out of three but for example one
address always has to be used 

387
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,700
and then it's any one of the 
other two or its A 2 out of 4 

388
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:15,000
address but specific pairs can 
go together. 

389
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:19,100
I don't know if that's something
you use because that would, of 

390
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,500
course, be then one way, for 
example, to manage it, if you 

391
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:27,400
had, let's say you have one a 
treasurer of the company has 

392
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,400
assigned every transaction, but 
then anyone else can do it but 

393
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,200
not to other. 
People are there things like 

394
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,100
that that you also building or 
perhaps thinking of building for

395
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:41,400
the future. 
Yeah, so as of right now, we 

396
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,100
support two of three, we will 
definitely be expanding the 

397
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:49,000
flexibility in terms of what 
that looks like. 

398
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,500
So more complex rules around 
number of keys who needs to sign

399
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,100
Etc. 
Basically what you just 

400
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,500
described. 
That's not available yet but 

401
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,900
there's a reason we're hiring. 
All these Engineers so stay 

402
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:07,000
tuned for a lot more 
developments coming. 

403
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,900
Now, I'd like To go into some of
the meat. 

404
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,700
Just the usability aspect of 
this is probably the topic that 

405
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,900
I'm most interested in. 
So I just before the show, I 

406
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:20,400
mean, I had created a bit, go 
account a little while back, but

407
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,600
I had never actually just tried 
to use it and see how it worked.

408
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,300
So I opened up my account, I 
logged in. 

409
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:29,600
So there is a two-factor 
authentication. 

410
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,200
So I had to get an SMS or use 
authy to log, actually log into 

411
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,800
the account. 
So that's like one I guess, 

412
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,700
level of security, which Which 
protects you even further than 

413
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:43,900
just having a password and 
obviously the best practice, 

414
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:52,800
everybody should use that. 
And then I so I created a secure

415
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:56,800
wallet. 
So secure holding, so you I 

416
00:26:56,808 --> 00:26:59,200
guess you can create just as 
many as you want, right? 

417
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:03,100
Yeah, that's exactly right. 
So you can create any number of 

418
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:08,900
wallets and as I mentioned 
before each, each rule, that you

419
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:12,800
set is specific to the wallet 
rather than the account and 

420
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:15,300
that's intentional in the sense 
that it gives you greater 

421
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:18,200
flexibility. 
So let's say you have a wallet 

422
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,600
that you want to hold as that 
has like 90% of your Holdings 

423
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,500
and you really never want to 
transact out of it, except on 

424
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,400
very rare occasions for that 
one. 

425
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:33,900
You were an Enterprise user, you
could set a spending limit of 

426
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,900
zero, which means that any 
transaction would require an 

427
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:45,800
approval. 
If instead, you decided to have 

428
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,000
a wallet that you use to 
transact more frequently and 

429
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,700
therefore, you don't need 
security to be quite as tight, 

430
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:53,400
you could set the spending limit
to say 5 Bitcoins. 

431
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:57,200
So any transaction under that 
limit doesn't require any other 

432
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,600
approval, but if you do, go over
that threshold then Then you 

433
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:03,100
would want an approval on it. 
Okay? 

434
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:05,800
And so when you create one of 
these secure wallets 

435
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,700
essentially, you're creating, 
it's not really a wallet, right?

436
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,000
You're creating an HD wallet, 
it's not just like 11 address, 

437
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,300
you can then create, it's a, 
you're starting from a seed and 

438
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:18,500
you can create as many addresses
as you want within that secure 

439
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:20,800
wallet. 
That's exactly right? 

440
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,100
So if you don't know, if you 
want to go back to the screen 

441
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:26,800
share, you were doing. 
But if you go ahead and click 

442
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,300
into the wallet, there's 
actually a Called addresses and 

443
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,300
that will show you basically all
the addresses that you have 

444
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:36,800
generated. 
Yeah. 

445
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,300
So go ahead and click into the 
wallet. 

446
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:40,600
Okay? 
So just for those of you 

447
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,600
listening, I'm actually showing 
the bit go interface so I 

448
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,600
created a wallet here. 
I called the safe well yeah, 

449
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,800
I'll explain these transactions 
later. 

450
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,800
So yeah, so I created a few 
addresses here. 

451
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:54,700
Yep. 
So I've got three at four 

452
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:56,800
addresses, actually, that I 
created. 

453
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,100
I actually move some Bitcoin at 
this. 

454
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:02,100
I want to try it out and I I 
donated a few million Bitcoins 

455
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,800
to Wikipedia because it's been a
lonely being funded for for the 

456
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,500
last few weeks every time I go 
on Wikipedia. 

457
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:10,200
So I said, what the hell? 
Yeah. 

458
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,700
So here are the addresses I've 
created and I can create as many

459
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:15,200
as I want, right? 
Exactly. 

460
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Yes. 
And those as you can see, you'll

461
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,500
see the balance of each of 
those. 

462
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:22,600
And for example, one use case in
which, that might be, 

463
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,300
particularly helpful is, let's 
say, you're expecting payment 

464
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:29,900
from five different people you 
can generate. 

465
00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,900
Different address for each of 
those people. 

466
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,600
And that way you'll be able to 
clearly tell who has paid you 

467
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,600
and who hasn't just by keeping 
track of which address you send 

468
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,400
to whom. 
Yeah. 

469
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400
And I mean that's best practice.
We recommend it to generate a 

470
00:29:45,408 --> 00:29:47,400
new address every time you 
receive a payment from someone 

471
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,200
anyway, right. 
Okay. 

472
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,800
And so other things that we can 
do, here we can manage the wall.

473
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,800
So like you said, there are some
spending limits that we can 

474
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:01,700
determine so we can set a daily 
spending limit. 

475
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,600
Yeah, and a per transaction 
spending limits, that's kind of 

476
00:30:04,608 --> 00:30:06,800
interesting. 
And like, maybe I'll go into. 

477
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,800
We can go into some detail about
how this works. 

478
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,500
And second, there's also a user 
access tab, so this is, I think 

479
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,700
an Enterprise feature. 
Yep, that's an Enterprise 

480
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:17,400
feature. 
There's also an address 

481
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,400
whitelist, so if you're really 
Restricting. 

482
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,900
The addresses that you're 
sending your Bitcoins to, I 

483
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:28,300
guess you can create a white 
list of addresses that that you 

484
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:30,700
can send your Bitcoins to. 
Oh, that's interesting. 

485
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:35,800
Yeah, that's not so much for 
restrictions so much as for 

486
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,300
safety and kind of peace of 
mind. 

487
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:42,500
And what I mean by that is 
obviously Bitcoin transactions 

488
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:44,800
are not reversible, so you want 
to make sure that you're 

489
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,600
actually sending your coins to 
the address that you intended to

490
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,000
send them to. 
And So What by adding let you 

491
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,900
know, let's say you're a company
who regularly pays out a certain

492
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:59,900
amount to a specific vendor, 
every two weeks you can add 

493
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:04,700
their address to that to that 
white list and therefore, you 

494
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:08,500
won't need to, you know, spend a
lot of time double-checking that

495
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,000
you've got the right one every 
single time you need to 

496
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,600
transact. 
Okay now one question that that 

497
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,900
I had before and I think I may 
have a pretty good what the 

498
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:23,800
answer is, but it's not really 
obvious, maybe to everyone, but 

499
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:31,100
these spending limits These 
spending limits are enforced by 

500
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:32,500
B Ko. 
They're not enforced by the 

501
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:37,400
protocol so correct. 
So those yeah that's a layer 

502
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,200
that we build on top. 
Yes that's a lot of that you 

503
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,900
built on top. 
So what that means is however 

504
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:47,600
that it all this is really good 
idea to set these spending 

505
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,400
limits. 
If By some chance, someone were 

506
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,900
to get a hold of your key and 
your back up. 

507
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,900
Those spending limits would not 
be taken to account if they were

508
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,800
trying to do it to a tree three 
transaction with your backup and

509
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,700
your your personal private key. 
So in order to like bypass that 

510
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:11,400
limit, somebody would have to 
get a hold of your. 

511
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,200
Well, there's quite a lot, 
they'd have to get ahold of, 

512
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,000
they'd have to get a hold of 
your phone, your wallet 

513
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,200
passcode. 
Your Login credentials. 

514
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,100
So the probability of that 
happening is I would say rather 

515
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:30,900
slim particularly if you're 
falling, if you're following 

516
00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:34,800
what we recommend in terms of, 
you know, best practices for 

517
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,700
passwords and that kind of 
management. 

518
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:42,200
So if somebody was using trying 
to basically spent the money not

519
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,000
to B go but to the backup tool 
that would be used. 

520
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,800
Let's also say, if because he 
disappeared It Go disappeared 

521
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:52,800
and then this wouldn't apply 
right. 

522
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,100
Well in that case. 
So basically the way our backup 

523
00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:03,100
key card works is that it has an
encrypted copy of the keys so 

524
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:07,200
and all of those are encrypted 
with the passcode that you have 

525
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,900
set for that particular wallet. 
So what that means is that you 

526
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:14,200
can literally like take your, I 
wouldn't recommend it by any 

527
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,400
means, but if you were so 
inclined, you could take your 

528
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,300
key card and like, You know, 
wave it around for the public to

529
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:26,100
see and unless they could 
somehow, you know, get a hold of

530
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:28,000
your passcode. 
They wouldn't actually be able 

531
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,500
to do anything with your coins. 
So it's again it's very 

532
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:36,700
challenging even if somebody has
your key card to. 

533
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:41,000
Yeah, even using the recovery 
tool actually spend those coins 

534
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,300
if you're not the rightful owner
because whoever does that also 

535
00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:47,500
needs to know your passcode. 
So which means, which means that

536
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:50,200
every time you change, if Change
your password on a wallet. 

537
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:53,600
You need to regenerate a backup 
key card. 

538
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,700
No, you don't. 
But you what you can do is you 

539
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:03,000
can essentially just send the 
funds to a new wallet if that 

540
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,400
makes you feel more comfortable.
Okay, so just to be clear. 

541
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,900
So, the key card is is a 
document. 

542
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,600
A PDF document that bit go sense
to you or allows you to download

543
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:18,500
when you create your wallet and 
is essentially your backup, your

544
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:20,100
I guess. 
Your backup key. 

545
00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:26,100
If anything happens that you 
lose your, your password, it 

546
00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:28,600
will allow that key card would 
allow a bit. 

547
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:35,300
Go to retrieve your funds. 
Well, it would allow it would 

548
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:38,900
allow us to retrieve your font. 
I mean, it would allow you we 

549
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:41,900
don't ever retrieve your funds. 
So it would allow you to 

550
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,600
retrieve your father. 
I mean, it would allow you to 

551
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,699
either. 
So, for example, if you forget 

552
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:52,100
your wallet, Would using your 
key card you can retrieve. 

553
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:56,100
Your funds, basically move them 
into another wallet. 

554
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,700
Or if you lose your key card, 
you can still using the other 

555
00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:07,000
two keys transact regardless. 
So essentially the basic 

556
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,100
premises any one piece can be 
lost without actually you know 

557
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:17,100
losing access to your funds. 
Okay and in terms of actually 

558
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:22,400
storing this back up what are in
your opinion the best practices 

559
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,600
with regard? 
To keeping this key card. 

560
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,600
I mean, should you keep one in 
your house or should you have 

561
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,200
multiple backups like maybe at a
friend's house, or your parents,

562
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,400
or maybe the in a bank vault 
and, and your, and your 

563
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,700
password? 
Also, I mean, a lot of people 

564
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:41,300
now are using services like last
passes through their passwords 

565
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:43,500
and things like that. 
Can you maybe talk about some of

566
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,700
the best practices that you 
would recommend to, to keep all 

567
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:49,200
that as secure as possible? 
Yeah. 

568
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,300
So in terms of storing your 
back, Cup. 

569
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:57,200
You know, as I mentioned it is 
encrypted which is comforting in

570
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,600
the fact that obviously that 
adds another layer of security. 

571
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,900
If somebody finds it it's not 
just going to be like oh there 

572
00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:05,800
we go. 
I can read it, but we would 

573
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,300
still definitely recommend 
keeping it somewhere. 

574
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:13,700
You know like a bank vault. 
It's important to remember that 

575
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:17,300
this key is not something that's
needed to transact on a regular 

576
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:21,900
basis and so it's really only 
used in the event of some sort 

577
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:25,300
of Disaster Recovery or 
something like that. 

578
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,900
So, again, it doesn't need to be
the most accessible thing in the

579
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:31,900
world. 
So if you have a safe deposit 

580
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:35,200
box, a bank vault, something 
like that, that's definitely, 

581
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:39,100
you know, a great place to store
it but it also depends on the 

582
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:41,800
use case, right? 
So if you have a wallet in which

583
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:47,100
you're holding, like, I don't 
know, 20 Bitcoin it doesn't, you

584
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:50,200
know, you don't need to go to 
the same length as you would, 

585
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:53,600
you know, if you're holding many
Of dollars. 

586
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,900
So I guess it really depends on,
you know, kind of what you're 

587
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:01,100
holding in that wallet. 
And what the, what the use case 

588
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:06,100
is in terms of your passcode? 
Yeah, I mean, passcode managers 

589
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:11,700
are definitely something that's 
has taken off in the past. 

590
00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:15,800
I don't know, couple of years 
also, something that you can use

591
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,700
the most important thing to 
remember is just to make sure 

592
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:23,700
not to store your passcode with 
your key card, which might seem 

593
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:25,400
evident. 
But I always point it out 

594
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,800
anyways, because, you know, if 
somebody does have those 

595
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,500
security is never evident. 
Yes, exactly. 

596
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:35,500
So if somebody does have those 
two pieces then that's not a 

597
00:37:35,508 --> 00:37:39,500
scenario that we want. 
So obviously just making sure to

598
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:44,200
keep those both secure, 
preferably in your head, but if 

599
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,200
not somewhere safe, but just not
in the same safe. 

600
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,800
Place as the key card so I have 
two questions there. 

601
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,800
Different. 
So let's do one by one. 

602
00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:02,100
First of all, I was wondering is
panel on bitcoin security with 

603
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:08,400
Alan Reiner at a conference 
recently and he said in his view

604
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,900
he always argues that the 
backups the paperback of should 

605
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:19,000
be unencrypted because I guess 
in his point of view, the risk 

606
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,200
of you being not able to be 
retrieved the funds because 

607
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:31,100
somehow you lose the password to
decrypt, that paper backup is 

608
00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:34,800
higher than somebody sort of 
physically stealing that thing. 

609
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,100
Do you agree with that? 
Or do you think maybe that's 

610
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:41,800
something that's true for 
individuals but not for 

611
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,700
companies? 
No, I don't agree with that. 

612
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,400
The way our model is built is 
even if you forget your 

613
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,800
passcode, as long as you still 
have your key card, you can 

614
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,200
retrieve your passcode. 
So There's no reason to have it 

615
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,100
unencrypted because so long as 
you have it, you can recover 

616
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:08,200
your passcode. 
So, if you're, if you're storing

617
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,900
it, I mean, I wouldn't really 
recommend storing anything 

618
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:15,800
unencrypted because that just 
adds a layer of risk, okay? 

619
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,000
Then maybe my, so my second 
question is this and that's 

620
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600
something that's been on my 
mind, quite a lot, also sort of 

621
00:39:22,607 --> 00:39:25,700
thinking personally, right? 
So now I have a whole bunch of 

622
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:27,900
different wallets. 
There's like so many in there, 

623
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:32,500
some in there and, you know, 
some are in this like offline 

624
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,700
thing in somewhere, maybe paper 
thing. 

625
00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:40,500
And then I think that Tends to 
be the case with many people and

626
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:42,500
then of course it can get very 
complex. 

627
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:46,900
I mean, even if we talk about 
something as simple quote 

628
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:51,700
unquote, someone using Bitcoin 
big go multisig thinking through

629
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:54,400
of like where do I store my 
passcode? 

630
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,000
Where do I store the paperback 
of like this shouldn't be in the

631
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,300
same place at cetera just to 
have that clear? 

632
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:03,400
I think the syrup from an 
operational aspect is super 

633
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,900
important. 
So what I thought About what the

634
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:10,100
really what one should do is 
once you write a document, 

635
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,200
right? 
Exactly outlining different 

636
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,800
scenarios like if this happens 
and that happens, if this these 

637
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,400
things have to be considered. 
So I'm curious is that something

638
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,800
you do with your clients is that
you sort of walk them through 

639
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:31,500
every step and maybe have this 
kind of different scenarios that

640
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:35,700
so they know what exactly they 
consider. 

641
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,900
And what they have to do. 
If something goes wrong. 

642
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,900
Yeah. 
I mean, obviously we are always 

643
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:45,800
here to support them in the 
event, something goes wrong. 

644
00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:50,300
But when you know, when we do 
set up, I spend a lot of time 

645
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:54,700
kind of walking through security
best practices, how to set 

646
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:58,700
things up excetera. 
So you know for example we allow

647
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:04,900
you to import an ex Pub as the 
to basically create the backup. 

648
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,100
So So one of the keys is 
generated on big go servers, the

649
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:13,100
second is generated client-side 
in the browser when you create 

650
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,600
the wallet and then you have the
ability to import a third one, 

651
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,600
which we recommend generating on
a separate machine because you 

652
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,200
obviously never want to have any
two of the three keys 

653
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,300
unencrypted on the same machine 
because that opens you up to a 

654
00:41:30,308 --> 00:41:32,900
level of vulnerability that 
obviously isn't good. 

655
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,300
So, you know, for example, 
Definitely walk through all of 

656
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:43,200
those best practices and that 
sort of thing in terms of in 

657
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,300
terms of management. 
I mean, that really boils down 

658
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:50,900
to each individual customers 
needs and use cases. 

659
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:55,400
So, some of them will have 
multiple people managing 

660
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,600
multiple wallets and so, 
depending on, you know, whether 

661
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,700
it's a wallet that's used for 
day-to-day spending or four more

662
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:06,400
long-term Holdings than my 
recommendations, SLI going to 

663
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,600
vary. 
So it kind of depends on the use

664
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,400
case as well. 
No, I had an idea so we were 

665
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,300
thinking about the sort of 
scenarios where and I think 

666
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:18,500
perhaps we don't think about 
this enough. 

667
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:22,900
But, you know, it, you know, we 
all have these Bitcoins and if 

668
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,600
something happens to us when we 
get injured or permit, the 

669
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,100
disabled or maybe we die or 
something like that, in an 

670
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:29,900
accident or something horrible 
like that. 

671
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:35,100
And, and those Bitcoins 
essentially will die with you, 

672
00:42:35,107 --> 00:42:39,200
unless you've done something to 
be able to pass them on to 

673
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:44,200
someone else. 
So, how does how would be able 

674
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,100
to implement some sort of 
third-party retrieval in the 

675
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:56,300
case of someone dying? 
Well, I mean, fortunately, this 

676
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:59,700
isn't a Sarah scenario that 
we've encountered, but I would 

677
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:06,900
suppose that if something like 
that happened, you know, let's 

678
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:12,300
say your father has a bigger 
wallet and he passes away, he's 

679
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:16,400
left you with access to say the 
key card. 

680
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,800
Then if you were to come to us 
and, you know, obviously, would 

681
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,000
take whatever legal proceedings 
are necessary beforehand, but 

682
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:29,600
once that's been settled in that
regard, then you know, with our 

683
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,700
key, we would be able to allow 
you to retrieve the funds. 

684
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,900
But again, Not luckily not a 
scenario that we've we've really

685
00:43:39,900 --> 00:43:43,800
encountered, obviously, the 
other option is to, you know, 

686
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,100
have multiple administrators on 
a wallet. 

687
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:51,400
So for example, if let's say 
your father had an account with 

688
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,500
substantial Holdings, he could 
add you as an administrator as 

689
00:43:55,500 --> 00:44:01,300
well as your mother and then in 
that event, you know, the two of

690
00:44:01,300 --> 00:44:07,100
you would be able to transact 
even without even without 

691
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:13,000
Needing his approval or 
signature on the transaction. 

692
00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:18,200
Okay, so one could leave his key
card with his will for example, 

693
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:19,000
right? 
Yes. 

694
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:25,300
Okay, and when, when someone 
comes to you with having lost 

695
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:28,000
their password and wanting to 
retrieve the Bitcoins with their

696
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,200
key card, what sort of identity 
verification do you have to go 

697
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,500
through if any to unlock those 
funds as having the key card 

698
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:37,300
enough? 
Or is there an another layer? 

699
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:42,200
Bhaiji verification that goes 
into authorizing transactions. 

700
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:44,800
Yeah. 
So we still have to Factor auth 

701
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,700
on that, as well. 
So, we have a recovery tool that

702
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:53,300
basically walks through the pot 
process, requiring regular login

703
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,100
to factor off, as well as the 
key card. 

704
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,600
Okay. 
And this is perhaps more of a 

705
00:44:59,607 --> 00:45:05,500
technical question before we 
move onto to other topics as And

706
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:08,000
we kind of relates back to what 
we were talking about earlier. 

707
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,100
And then the question of you who
holds the funds and such does 

708
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,400
bit go with the with the keys 
that they possess with that, 

709
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:19,700
that third key that they 
possess, do they have the 

710
00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:21,500
ability to actually see the 
funds? 

711
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,600
Do they have access to that? 
Or do they just see a bunch of 

712
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,400
encrypted addresses in the sense
like, do we are we able to view 

713
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,400
wallet Holdings? 
Yeah. 

714
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,700
Are you able to see client 
funds? 

715
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:38,300
Using see That, that part of the
three keys that you have, we 

716
00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:41,900
have visibility but we don't 
have the ability to spend or 

717
00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:45,200
transact or anything like that 
because we only have the key to 

718
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,700
co-sign, right? 
So, so essentially what you're 

719
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:51,300
saying is like in this safe, in 
these addresses that I've 

720
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:55,000
created bit, go has the ability 
to see the balance, right? 

721
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,800
Me actually see the addresses 
that that are created in that HD

722
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,400
wall and the end, the balance of
strength. 

723
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,100
Okay. 
That's something that wasn't 

724
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:05,100
clear with me. 
Yep. 

725
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,000
So one thing I would just add to
what we've discussed. 

726
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,600
I think we've talked a lot about
multisig but another thing 

727
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,100
that's I think interesting and 
not particularly well, known is 

728
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,400
the fact that all our wallets 
are also HD which is stands for 

729
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,500
hierarchical deterministic and 
you know as we mentioned when 

730
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:29,300
you were sharing the screen that
allows for the creation of 

731
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,200
basically infinite new addresses
from the Exceed. 

732
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,500
And I think that's that's very 
important from, not really not 

733
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:42,200
so much a security perspective. 
But from a financial privacy 

734
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,300
perspective because the 
blockchain is a public Ledger, 

735
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:50,100
it's obviously available to 
anyone, who cares to look at it 

736
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:56,500
and what that translates to is 
the potential for sensitive 

737
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:59,800
information to be made 
relatively accessible. 

738
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,300
So, you know, for example, I'd 
say I'm a company that pays its 

739
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:09,600
employees in Bitcoin. 
I send out, you know, there are 

740
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,900
15 employees. 
I send out 15 transactions on 

741
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:14,800
the second Friday of every 
month. 

742
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,300
If I'm the recipient of one of 
those transactions, I can 

743
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:23,600
obviously see which address the 
the funds came from and I'll 

744
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,500
also be able to see the other 
transactions that it made that 

745
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:29,600
particular day. 
So for example, that would allow

746
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,800
me to infer without too much 
difficulty. 

747
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:37,700
For example, how much my 
co-workers salaries were or, you

748
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:41,100
know, any sort of thing like 
that in the event, that, you 

749
00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:45,000
know, I'm a hedge fund, that's 
holding assets and different in 

750
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,000
different wallets. 
Somebody could, you know, 

751
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,400
identify me as the person who 
has control over those and then 

752
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,800
potentially threaten me, or any 
other number of unfortunate 

753
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,600
scenarios. 
And so HD, while it's prevent 

754
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:03,600
that by basically masking where 
you, You know which one of these

755
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,300
addresses the transaction was 
coming from by spending from a 

756
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:10,500
different one each time and so 
what that does is it just kind 

757
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,800
of allows you to maintain that 
privacy even though you're 

758
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,800
transacting on a public Ledger 
that's really interesting. 

759
00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:19,800
I like that idea. 
Thanks. 

760
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:25,400
Yes, so we're kind of coming up 
towards the end of our show. 

761
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,700
Is there something else you want
to cover it with regards to a 

762
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:34,100
big goal or multisig that we 
should have asked about? 

763
00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:37,700
And that you feel is important 
and we haven't, we haven't come 

764
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:41,000
to yet. 
No, I mean, I'm just really 

765
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,600
excited to see the ecosystem, 
taking the lead and kind of 

766
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,900
following the path that we've 
set in the sense that, you know,

767
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:52,800
we as a company. 
And our CEO Will O'Brien 

768
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,500
published a piece titled 
something. 

769
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:59,500
Like it's time to end the cold 
storage Ice Age. 

770
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,500
We've really encouraged the 
ecosystem as a whole to adopt 

771
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:11,300
standards like multisig. 
We see these as not nice to have

772
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:14,800
but as really core to making 
Bitcoin something that's a 

773
00:49:14,808 --> 00:49:20,000
viable Financial instrument 
across the board and you know 

774
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,500
it's not technology. 
EG that we want to hide away and

775
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:26,700
be the only ones offering we 
really want the industry to be 

776
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,900
using it and improving upon it. 
Because ultimately, it's in the 

777
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:36,000
entire ecosystems best interest 
to have more people safely 

778
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,300
securely holding their money. 
And so I think that's that's 

779
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:41,800
really the direction that we're 
headed in. 

780
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,500
Obviously we want to stay a step
or five ahead of everybody else 

781
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,700
doing this but, you know, we 
think it's important for the 

782
00:49:48,707 --> 00:49:50,300
industry as a whole. 
Yeah. 

783
00:49:50,300 --> 00:49:53,400
And I think it's important. 
Well, for industry leaders to 

784
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,200
like you say in set those 
standards which then get adopted

785
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,400
by by every other actor in the 
industry. 

786
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:07,900
So good job on B, gopher leading
the way on security and and it's

787
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:10,300
also like we talked about being 
in the show. 

788
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:13,500
It's, it's very it's very 
interesting to see how that's 

789
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:17,400
evolved in the last. 
Like it seems to be happening so

790
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,800
fast, just a few months ago, we 
were talking about insured 

791
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,400
wallet. 
It's and cold storage, and kind 

792
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,400
of looking at that as a solution
for securing Bitcoins. 

793
00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:33,600
You know, I might be interested 
in seeing where those, where the

794
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,700
security is going to is going to
go in the next six months. 

795
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:39,200
I mean, I think in six months 
from now, we'll be looking back 

796
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,400
at this conversation and saying 
even though today we're looking 

797
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,600
at this and saying, this is 
quite secure would be looking 

798
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,000
back on this and saying, wow, 
like that was so insecure. 

799
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:49,600
We've got so many more layers of
security now. 

800
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,200
Yeah. 
I agree with that and also just 

801
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:56,100
making it more usable. 
That's something that we're 

802
00:50:56,100 --> 00:51:00,900
constantly working on. 
So it's just like you can never 

803
00:51:00,900 --> 00:51:05,000
really rest on your laurels in 
the security and usability 

804
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,700
space, particularly when you're 
basically creating a new 

805
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:10,900
industry. 
So a totally agree will have a 

806
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:13,500
very different conversation in 
in six months time. 

807
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,900
So yeah. 
So perhaps moving on just before

808
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:24,100
we end the show, so you are also
So a blogger, you write for 

809
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:27,800
point, you've written for coin 
test for Business Insider, and 

810
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,600
you also write on your own blog 
area on subsume.com. 

811
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:36,100
And so, I was reading through 
your blog earlier today and and 

812
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:38,300
you mentioned this before the 
show that you were in Africa, 

813
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,100
can you talk about your 
experience there and maybe 

814
00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:44,000
relate that to bitcoin? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

815
00:51:44,900 --> 00:51:51,000
So I think one thing that a lot 
of naysayers of Bitcoin, repeat 

816
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,200
it Is that oh, you know, we 
don't need it, the financial 

817
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,900
system works. 
And first of all, I would argue 

818
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:02,100
that that's not necessarily the 
case it very much works or 

819
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:06,000
doesn't work depending on who 
you ask and what their financial

820
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,900
status is. 
But more broadly, I think that 

821
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:15,300
yes on the whole the United 
States for example and A certain

822
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,900
part of Europe have you know, 
Financial systems that are 

823
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:22,400
largely functional but when you 
start moving into other parts of

824
00:52:22,408 --> 00:52:25,500
the world, you see that that's 
not necessarily the case. 

825
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:32,800
So I spent a good amount of time
last year traveling through 

826
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,900
southern Africa and a lot of 
what I saw was really really 

827
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:41,100
eye-opening in terms of, you 
know, how different economies 

828
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:46,200
work and what those financial 
systems or Lack thereof look 

829
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:52,800
like so you know, I think the 
most, the most eye-opening part 

830
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,700
of my trouble for me was the 
time I spent in Zimbabwe and I 

831
00:52:56,700 --> 00:53:01,000
met a lot of people who really 
gave me a great deal of insight 

832
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:07,400
into how the economy had been 
devastated by their president / 

833
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,600
dictator Mugabe and he had 
through, you know, basically 

834
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,600
completely Reckless. 
Fiscal policies printed money, 

835
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,500
use it to finance Wars, 
excessive pay to his government 

836
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:27,000
and army officials and by doing 
so basically cause it's rampant 

837
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,100
hyperinflation to the point 
where I think it was the second 

838
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:34,400
worst case of hyperinflation in 
the history of money, which is 

839
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:38,000
quite astounding. 
But basically, what what 

840
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,400
resulted was the fact that money
was depreciating at such a rapid

841
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,300
clip, that people could not 
afford to buy anything? 

842
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,000
So stores were completely empty 
because the merchants couldn't 

843
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:54,500
afford to stalk them, hospitals 
had no medication doctor who are

844
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:57,700
not paid, so they were not 
working, people were dying for 

845
00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:00,600
things that should have 
required, a minimal dose of 

846
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,900
penicillin and it really, really
destroyed the company the the 

847
00:54:04,900 --> 00:54:08,900
country's economy to the point 
where they eventually had to 

848
00:54:08,908 --> 00:54:13,500
switch back to the dollar in 
order to stabilize things and 

849
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:15,000
things are certainly important. 
Proving now. 

850
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,300
But there's still the, the 
after-effects of that kind of 

851
00:54:20,308 --> 00:54:24,100
economic disaster are still 
being felt very strongly. 

852
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:30,200
And so for me, I guess the, the 
relation with Bitcoin is the 

853
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,000
fact that because it's not 
controlled by any single 

854
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,100
government or single entity. 
There really is a substantial 

855
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,400
potential for avoiding this kind
of thing. 

856
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,800
In the sense that, you know, 
currency manipulation is A lot 

857
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,200
more difficult in an environment
in which there is no single 

858
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:53,400
actor, be that the government or
a president controlling all of 

859
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:58,500
the money supply. 
And you know, I don't think that

860
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:01,100
it's probable that you know in 
the next 10 years were going to 

861
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:04,200
see everybody, ditching their 
currencies and switching over to

862
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,800
bitcoin, however even having 
Bitcoin as like a secondary or 

863
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,400
supplemental. 
Currency for example in in a 

864
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,400
place like Zimbabwe. 
A I think could have 

865
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,300
significantly alleviated the 
effects of this kind of 

866
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:23,200
hyperinflation and so obviously 
it's difficult to say how these 

867
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,600
things will play out in the long
term from a geopolitical 

868
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,100
perspective, but I think that 
Bitcoin has a whole lot of 

869
00:55:31,100 --> 00:55:34,300
potential in markets outside the
US, which is sometimes 

870
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:37,900
underestimated. 
Yeah, I mean a lot a lot of 

871
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:45,600
times People will use Africa and
South America, as examples of, 

872
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,400
you know, where Bitcoin can 
Excel. 

873
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,900
And I think there's a lot of 
Truth to that. 

874
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,900
However, a lot of these people, 
I think maybe have never even 

875
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:56,900
set foot in Africa, or South 
America. 

876
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,300
And well, I have exactly know. 
But that's what I mean. 

877
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:06,100
And and and when I read this 
post, it really shines through 

878
00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:08,800
that. 
Not only do you talk about this 

879
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:15,300
with sort of this, that the 
obvious advantages that people 

880
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:22,700
can can Take from using Bitcoin 
and cryptocurrencies in those 

881
00:56:22,700 --> 00:56:24,800
places. 
But you have actually been there

882
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:30,200
to see how people live and how 
how we can benefit them in their

883
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,300
in their daily lives. 
So I think that you're 

884
00:56:33,300 --> 00:56:35,100
particularly well, placed to 
talk about it. 

885
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,900
So that so that article that you
wrote is called why Bitcoin 

886
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:43,900
matters in Africa, it's on your 
actually was written about eight

887
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:47,800
months ago but it's on your 
side, Ariana Simpson.com and 

888
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,600
along with all the other 
articles that you've written. 

889
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:56,600
And I encourage everybody to go 
to Ariana's blog to read those 

890
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:57,800
articles. 
Thank you. 

891
00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:01,200
Yeah. 
Well so we're the end of our 

892
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,200
show. 
So thanks so much Ariana for 

893
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,000
joining us with really 
interesting to talk about this. 

894
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,200
I very much agree with your 
assessment and sort of because 

895
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,000
stands, I think multisig is 
going to be absolutely integral 

896
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,700
to be coins future. 
This is not some sort of 

897
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:19,600
optional add-on, but I think 
we'll be totally embedded in. 

898
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,500
In how well its work in the 
future. 

899
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:26,000
So it's a really interesting 
topic and it was super 

900
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,900
interesting property, right? 
So thanks for coming on, thanks 

901
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:32,800
for having me, great to be here.
So, one last thing, if you want 

902
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:38,000
to try out bit, go, you can do. 
So, and that's a bit go.com, you

903
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,000
can try out the just a regular 
multisig or they also have. 

904
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,400
If you are a company that wants 
to use some of the more advanced

905
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,900
features is like a request form.
I think it's still in beta but, 

906
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:51,600
you know, you can do that. 
And I think they will get back 

907
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:52,500
to you. 
Yep. 

908
00:57:53,300 --> 00:58:00,100
Also a next week we will have or
hang out with Daniel pellet, 

909
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,400
he's the CEO gems. 
So James is a social networking 

910
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:08,200
tool that is going to have its 
own currency. 

911
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,300
So I think it's going to 
basically incentivize users by 

912
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:16,800
paying them and sort of giving 
them stock in the company. 

913
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,000
So it's really exciting and 
there, Are also doing IT Crowd 

914
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,100
sale, that's organized by 
quantify. 

915
00:58:24,100 --> 00:58:29,000
So you may remember quantify 
from, or episode, maybe a month 

916
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,700
ago or something when we had Tom
ding on. 

917
00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:38,400
So that's going to be next 
Sunday at certain November 23rd,

918
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,700
at 5:30 UTC. 
So that's 9:30 a.m. 

919
00:58:42,700 --> 00:58:47,800
Pacific Time or 12:30 p.m. 
eastern time, and yeah, please 

920
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,400
watch live with us. 
Would be fantastic. 

921
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,200
And to do that. 
You may want to subscribe to our

922
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,100
YouTube channel, so you will get
the notification there. 

923
00:58:58,500 --> 00:59:00,900
And you can, of course, also 
trying to show on iTunes 

924
00:59:00,900 --> 00:59:03,500
SoundCloud Stitcher, or whatever
else. 

925
00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:06,800
You get the podcast. 
Please also subscribe to our 

926
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,200
newsletter and Epsilon a 
Bitcoin.com newsletter and leave

927
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:12,800
us a tape. 
So you know if you listen every 

928
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,900
week and love to show consider 
giving us five dollars a month 

929
00:59:16,900 --> 00:59:18,600
subscription. 
I think you can do that one 

930
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,100
base. 
Now as that's just 125 and 

931
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:24,800
episode, so thanks so much and 
we look forward to being back 

932
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:25,500
next week.