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This is epicenter episode, 161 
with guest Marley Gray. 

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This episode of epicenter is 
brought to you by Jack. 

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Jack's is the user-friendly 
wallet that works across. 

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All your devices and handles 
both big. 

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Coins and ether, go to ja double
x dot IO and embrace the future 

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of cryptocurrency wallets. 
Hi, welcome to epicenter of the 

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show. 
Our stocks about the 

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Technologies projects and starts
driving decentralization and the

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global blockchain Revolution. 
My name is Sebastian Juju and my

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name is Brian sabean. 
Kraang we're here today with 

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Molly, Gray, Marley is the 
principal program manager for 

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blockchain at Microsoft 
Microsoft. 

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As I'm sure many of you are 
aware has been very active. 

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If in the blockchain space they 
sponsored a theorem def con last

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year and maybe this year again. 
You guys sponsor this here 

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again? 
Yes, right twice. 

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And they were one of the first 
or, you know, one of the first 

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big tech companies to really get
into the Block Chain space and 

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now finger Molly was. 
It was a key driver not. 

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So thanks so much for joining us
today. 

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Your problem for having me So 
can you give us a little 

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background? 
I think you've been at Microsoft

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for a long time. 
What was what have you been 

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doing there? 
And how did your career kind of 

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evolved to end up where it is 
today? 

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So yeah, I'm working on my 17th 
year. 

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Microsoft and I started in 
Charlotte North Carolina so 

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which is a banking Hub and the 
United States and came on in the

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financial services vertical and 
I was a trading floor 

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application developer at the 
time and I quickly moved to to 

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our developer platform 
evangelism team which is 

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essentially when dotnet first 
came. 

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Out. 
We were going around talking to 

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software Architects and 
developers and explaining the 

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intricacies of how dotnet worked
and why you wanted to use it. 

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Why? 
It was better spent a lot of 

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time, doing that. 
And then came back into 

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financial services and ended up 
getting relocated and taking a 

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job in New York City. 
To lower two years ago to run 

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the Innovation Labs there. 
And that's where I picked up 

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blockchain again, which is the 
first time I did. 

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It was really wasn't aware when 
I was doing Bitcoin. 

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Nobody really paid too much 
attention. 

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What's going on to the covers 
too much than just getting your 

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cryptocurrency working and and 
unfortunately I lost my my 

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private keys from very early on 
so I have some orphan Bitcoin 

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out there, but picked it back up
in 2015 and And incubated 

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blockchain at Microsoft in New 
York and got pulled into 

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actually build out our strategy.
And now have a engineering team 

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here in the product group, but 
then I had her and I'm leading 

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up the design and architecture 
here for that. 

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So what was it about blockchain 
that fancied, triggered your 

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interest. 
Well being in financial services

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there was a so much you have to 
do around settlement times and 

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the pain around settlement in 
the pain Enterprise 

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organizations go through what an
audit is triggered. 

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It just identifying some of the 
things that that blockchain 

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could solve and really was a 
smart contracts was the hook to 

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be able to define the data that 
you're going to share with other

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people, but also behavior and 
intent. 

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So smart contracts in a large 
degree really kicked the 

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interest in blockchain and 
overdrive because people started

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thinking of it in other ways 
than just a cryptocurrency So we

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started to see that more as a 
platform for delivering 

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Innovation to businesses and and
the way we do business and 

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really break apart and simplify 
a lot of business processes that

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have evolved over decades. 
So that's that's what you're 

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really interested first. 
It was in financial services 

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specifically in the derivatives 
Market, but now it's spawned 

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into just about Every industry 
there is Brian mentioned earlier

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that Microsoft was one of the 
first companies to one of the 

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first large companies, you know,
the historical figure and and 

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Tech the really dive in 
headfirst into blockchain 

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technology and infrastructure. 
Can you describe sort of a high 

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level, what the strategy is for 
Microsoft with regards to 

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blockchain and block changes 
service? 

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Yeah, so we see blockchain is 
being very obvious like 

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creatively destructive to a lot 
of our we have a huge Enterprise

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business and our customers are 
always coming to us asking for 

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innovation ideas or ways. 
They can improve their Outreach 

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to their customers, their 
products or their processes. 

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And we saw this as an 
opportunity. 

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A lot of our customers were 
having a lot. 

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Out of desire to at least try 
watching, which initially was 

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very difficult to do and how do 
they even approach it? 

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So, you know, our initial goal 
is to say, hey, let's make it 

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easy for people to learn what 
watching is and to just get 

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started and blockchain is a 
service. 

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I launched it. 
Well, it's been over a year now.

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Was it its main goal is just to 
make it easy for people to stand

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up. 
A private blockchain network and

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to start tinkering with it and 
learning it. 

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And you know, we started out 
with a theorem but quickly 

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customers wanted to try out 
Eros, which has been renamed but

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you know, multi-chain now we 
have chain and a whole bunch of 

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different blockchains out there.
So everybody wanted to try out 

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the different different block 
chains and start to test them. 

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And that's, that was the initial
goal. 

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Now, we've greatly expanded that
I'm sure we'll talk about that a

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bit later now, but that was, 
that was our primary goal to 

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system Meet customer demand to 
allow them to do it. 

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We felt like the cloud was a 
great place to do things. 

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We call it the fail, fast fail 
cheap. 

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Because, you know, I was going 
to build anything right out of 

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the gate, that would make it the
production that they would 

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tinker and play and try 
something and fail miserably. 

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But With that low cost. 
So you just delete it and start 

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all over again. 
And that's that was our initial 

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design goal. 
I agree that that sort of that 

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fail fast model is really 
valuable. 

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I can today, I signed up for, 
for a sure, I think I'd done in 

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a while back, but I never really
gotten through it with it. 

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But I saw him for a juror like I
had a credits. 

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I spun up my theory. 
Mm Network, it took about five 

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minutes, you just basically set 
it up and it was really easy to 

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do, right? 
So, if I can see that, you know,

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having set up a guest node 
before iMac this was much more 

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pleasurable is there so much 
more pleasant experience as a 

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whole rather than having to 
install npm and node. 

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And I like all this other stuff 
coffins really complex and buggy

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and you know, takes a long time 
just to get you off the ground. 

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So I think that for a lot of 
people getting started, I don't 

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know if they're going that 
route, but it definitely looks 

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like something really attractive
for someone who wants to play. 

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Around with like multi chain and
right, you know, wants to wants 

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to get restored really quick. 
Yeah, so actually, we were quite

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surprised when we researching 
this to learn that as your the 

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number of data centers that you 
have all around the world and 

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how yeah, it seems like a like a
massive Cloud infrastructure 

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which I really was not aware of 
you talk about sort of, but 

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perhaps just described for those
who aren't familiar. 

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What, what is azure And how how 
blockchains fit into the Azure 

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offering, right? 
So, Azure is our our Cloud 

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platform and it is really 
targeted initially and it's 

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always been targeted Enterprise 
market. 

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And so we started to and also 
our own internal system. 

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So our own being and Xbox Live 
and things like that. 

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So we initially started to put 
data centers out there for 

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initial redundancy speed of 
light issues. 

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You know you want to have things
close geographically dispersed 

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and started to work with our 
Enterprise customers. 

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And a lot of the major concerns 
were not technical in nature, 

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but more government-related. 
So we need two things in certain

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jurisdictions for data residency
laws. 

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So what we quickly found is, we 
would build these Footprints and

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we could put these massive data 
centers all over the world. 

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But we started to find out all 
we need to put data centers in 

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specific countries or specific 
regions and they also have to 

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have a fault domain within that 
same region. 

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So it ended up we have over 100 
data centers. 

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Around the world where I think 
39 different regions which is 

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actually larger than our tool. 
Closest competitors, combined 

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and its really targeted at what 
we have a jurisdictional issue 

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with enough, Custer, man, we're 
going to put in service our 

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customers there. 
And the interesting point is all

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those data centers are linked 
with our own dark fiber. 

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So we actually have 
second-largest dark, fiber 

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Network outside of government 
where we live. 

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So it's a massive Network that 
you're not that you can go 

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between data centers without 
touching a public network. 

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And then we have this other 
piece. 

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So this is that massive called, 
hyperscale Cloud to deliver 

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Computing on demand. 
And when we first launched, as 

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you're actually overshot the 
market, we launched Azure with a

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platform as a service message 
where you didn't concern 

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yourself with spinning up 
virtual machines, you just said,

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hey I need, I need a database, 
give me a database, get I want 

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to stand up. 
This web app here's a web app 

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and you just put your 
requirements in and 

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behind-the-scenes. 
It would make sure that you have

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the right resources from a 
hardware and storage networking 

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perspective. 
And then AWS came out with what 

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the market actually was was they
weren't ready for next 

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Generation applications and so 
they came out with 

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infrastructure as a service. 
So then we quickly followed with

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that but now the markets of 
giving back into 

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platform-as-a-service you sir. 
Is he a lot of talk about 

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serverless environments? 
Where you have this execution 

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environment in the cloud where 
you can reach out and access 

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capabilities or functions that 
you need without saying, I need 

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it to run on this type of 
hardware on this operating 

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system. 
You don't concern yourself with 

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that. 
You basically. 

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So this is what I do or this is 
what I need. 

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I don't care how you get it to 
me. 

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Just do it within these SLA, and
I'm good to go. 

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Go. 
So, the Azure is that sort of 

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worldwide Network where we're 
delivering data based on and 

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meeting those restraints around 
data residency. 

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Compliance security, our 
security compliance portfolio is

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the best in the business. 
So when you start to look at 

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putting things in the cloud you 
have to have all those. 

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There's a long list of 
checkboxes, you have to go 

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through to get Enterprise 
customers, ready to start 

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putting data. 
And their biggest processing 

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workloads out there and and that
that we're starting to see 

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customers moving moving in Mass 
certain workloads and we'll see 

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more and more go through the 
net. 

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New applications were starting 
to see being built with cloud in

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mind. 
And lastly as yours also hybrid 

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so you can run something called 
Azure stack which is an 

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on-premises private Cloud which 
Looks and feels and behaves just

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like an Azure price. 
It's a like a setting up your 

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own Data Center and your own or 
Azure cloud and your own data 

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center. 
It looks like a region and it 

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can burst out to the cloud for 
more compute resources or 

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storage and things like that. 
So it's that hybrid on-prem and 

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public Cloud. 
If you go very interesting and 

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you mentioned before that, part 
of the reason why, You guys got 

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into blockchain was that a lot 
of Microsoft's clients and they 

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wanted to try out blockchain and
they were sort of looking to you

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guys to make that easier. 
But is there a larger thesis 

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that Microsoft has about, you 
know, where technology and 

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enterprise software is going 
over the next? 

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Maybe decade two decades, that 
informs how you guys are 

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approaching blockchain and maybe
not just right now. 

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I want to comes to this 
experimental phase but also 

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Beyond when we're going to go 
into production and actually you

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know big applications run on 
blockchain systems. 

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But chain itself is forcing sort
of a business process, 

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re-engineering effort across 
Industries. 

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So because we're dealing with 
the Enterprise's of these 

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Enterprises are moving away from
business processes operating 

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within their own four walls 
which is hard enough as it is 

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getting interoperability large 
organization across 

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applications. 
But now saying I want to be able

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to have that same 
interoperability between my most

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fierce competitor and throughout
an entire supply chain. 

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How do I do that? 
And before you really have that 

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option because you didn't have a
shared truth, like the 

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blockchain to be able to share 
that data and have one place to 

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go for reconciliation to see 
where the process of business 

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processes that crosses 
organizational boundaries which 

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is essentially everything in 
this global economy. 

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And it touches every every 
industry. 

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So with that we said, okay well 
kind of backed into the cloud 

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being and blockchain initial at 
a first glance. 

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People said well, why would you 
do blockchain in the cloud? 

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00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:02,800
And it's at first, it does seem 
seem counterintuitive, but if 

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you think of what the cloud is, 
the cloud is essentially a 

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massive distributed system, 
we're going these massive data 

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Data centers all over the place,
but your you have different 

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00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,600
levels of distribution, right? 
You just you distribute things 

244
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for different reasons, 
distribute, things for 

245
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disasters, right? 
I don't want to have all my data

246
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:26,500
centers and Lower Manhattan, 
that happened in 9/11, and that 

247
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:29,600
was a problem, right? 
So you need to have redundancy 

248
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outside of a geographic area, 
you need to have data residing 

249
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in different areas. 
So there's, you know, all that 

250
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:40,300
flexibility, but We started 
looking at that. 

251
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:44,100
We said, okay, customers are 
going to start wanting to move 

252
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to what we call the 
collaborative economy, where you

253
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,300
you work with each other and 
it's a part of the business 

254
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:52,800
process. 
So, Cross organization 

255
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:59,500
distributed workflows is we look
at supply chain, it's a very 

256
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complex business process. 
Lots of infrastructure. 

257
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,099
Required is a ton of overhead 
and friction in any supply 

258
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chain. 
NG whether you're manufacturing 

259
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a product and getting parts, 
from a thousand different 

260
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,000
suppliers which are actually 
cascaded down. 

261
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,800
So smaller suppliers, or you're 
producing a movie very similar, 

262
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,800
you have a supply chain and how 
do you manage that? 

263
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,300
And then how do you audit that? 
And we saw that as a fundamental

264
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:40,200
shift to provide not only that 
cross-organizational workflow 

265
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:44,700
and shared data and shared 
execution and Trust sort of 

266
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:48,800
distributed trust but then it 
sort of changes everything on 

267
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:54,000
the back end to because now you 
have visibility into your 

268
00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:58,100
business processes and where 
they're in efficiencies, you can

269
00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:04,600
catch fraud a lot easier, you 
can optimize a lot better. 

270
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,700
So you know, our customers 
initial stance is hey, 

271
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,700
Rethinking the way we're 
actually doing this business 

272
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process. 
We haven't Revisited 20 years 

273
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with this technology so we think
it's a fundamental shift and 

274
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,000
we're really ramping our 
platforms to work in this 

275
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:27,000
distributed. 
Not it's not just data 

276
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distributions, people think too 
much about distributed compute. 

277
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,600
The stripping of data but really
is distributed trust. 

278
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:38,800
And and moving looking at your, 
your business processes. 

279
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,400
And distributing them but having
disability out of where they are

280
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,700
at any given time very 
seamlessly. 

281
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,800
I think that's a great way of 
explaining right, essentially, 

282
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,100
the underlying thesis, that that
is in a big part of the Block 

283
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:57,700
Chain space. 
You know, that was sort of the 

284
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,900
thesis or the AC thesis a 
Terrace monads, but all kinds of

285
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:04,700
companies in this space, right? 
Like the whole etherium for 

286
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:09,200
business or even public, 
ethereum is also about exactly 

287
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,700
that process automation stuff. 
But if we agree that this is the

288
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,800
big, the big Trend that is 
going. 

289
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,900
Happened. 
I would be really curious about 

290
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:24,200
your perspective. 
Why are the other big tech 

291
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,000
companies like Google? 
Apple Amazon? 

292
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,600
Maybe? 
Facebook are they doing 

293
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,100
something but they just don't 
talk about it. 

294
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:36,600
Or do they have a different 
pieces? 

295
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,500
That means they, they don't see 
it the same way and they don't 

296
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,900
feel like they have to take 
action and move in this 

297
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,100
direction. 
What do you think? 

298
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,700
I think it has more to do with 
the DNA. 

299
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,200
May of the organization. 
If you look at the two big Tecna

300
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,100
companies that are doing a lot 
in blotchiness, it's Microsoft 

301
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:56,600
and IBM and we're firmly rooted 
in the Enterprise even though 

302
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,200
blockchain evolved out of a 
cryptocurrency. 

303
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,500
So you have this sort of wide 
quickly jump over to Enterprise 

304
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:09,200
it's because it's solved a 
problem in a very unique way and

305
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,300
stood the test of time even 
though people shot holes in it 

306
00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:14,600
and then are prizes quickly 
said, wow, this is going to 

307
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,700
change, this could change How We
Do. 

308
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:20,500
This is completely some of them 
when they fully understood it. 

309
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,300
Depending on the business. 
Either have a near-death 

310
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,500
experience, meaning that there 
are middlemen that they don't 

311
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:29,100
provide much value. 
Other than friction, into 

312
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:31,200
existing business process, that 
could be completely 

313
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:37,900
disintegrated, or they saw 
opportunity and usually company,

314
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,500
see both opportunity to reinvent
themselves. 

315
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,400
A lot of companies, we talked 
to, in the Enterprise, they see 

316
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,200
this as a catalyst, it's not 
pure technology is It doesn't 

317
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,300
solve every problem, but it 
provides that Catalyst 

318
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:54,100
opportunity to revisit because 
Microsoft and IBM are so focused

319
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,800
on delivering value in the 
Enterprise and working with 

320
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,400
businesses on different ways, 
right? 

321
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,700
So IBM really has a massive 
Human Services business where 

322
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,300
we're really focused on the 
software. 

323
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:11,000
We're not trying to sell 
Consulting Services, we rely on 

324
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,700
our partners to do, but that's 
that's why you saw us doing 

325
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:17,600
that. 
I think the reason Not seeing 

326
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,000
AWS and Google is they don't 
have that Enterprise Focus, 

327
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,300
Amazon will probably, I mean I 
can't really speak for where 

328
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:30,900
they are and what they're doing 
but I think that's why you see 

329
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:35,800
sort of this while we got out 
front, will they catch up? 

330
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:40,500
I'm sure they will once you get 
into their get into that. 

331
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:45,000
But the actual customer demand. 
We're getting it from these 

332
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:48,000
Enterprise customers and that's 
why we go First, I'd like to say

333
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,800
it was we're so Visionary, but 
it's really a little bit more 

334
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:54,400
simple than that. 
And you think that's going to 

335
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,900
remain like that in the near 
medium-term future that the most

336
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:05,500
activity and interest is on the 
Enterprise side as opposed to, 

337
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:12,000
to Consumer facing side. 
I think it will the evolution of

338
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,800
the two will come. 
I think we're going to go 

339
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,000
through, is the Enterprises will
stand up distributed. 

340
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,800
Ledger is no, probably a bunch 
of them. 

341
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,600
The public. 
Ledger's will provide an 

342
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,900
interesting back then, and that 
will start to see 

343
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:30,300
interoperability happening. 
Using the public network as a 

344
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:33,100
bridging mechanism. 
For assets, are traversing 

345
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:37,900
between watching for example, or
even smart contracts to bind 

346
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:39,700
themselves together. 
Even though they have no 

347
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,100
awareness of the other network. 
So, the public networks become 

348
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:48,900
very interesting sort of utility
common infrastructure and then 

349
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:53,500
these Consortium Enterprise 
blockchains tapping into those. 

350
00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:57,400
I think is a very interesting 
way to see this evolved and 

351
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,800
eventually get to the point 
where we flatten these things 

352
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,400
out. 
We have this Ledger that even 

353
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,100
though it's not one Ledger when 
I have this one, massive 

354
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:10,000
worldwide database that has an 
identity for Verything and 

355
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,400
tracks every business process, 
but we have a way to navigate a 

356
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:20,600
hierarchy or, or you know, a 
mesh of these these blockchains 

357
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,500
or distributed letters as the 
evolved. 

358
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:28,000
So I think we will see for the 
next couple of years, just from 

359
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:34,200
a effort and where people making
a lot of bets, and being 

360
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,400
employed. 
And, and looking at solving hard

361
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,700
problems, I think it's going to 
be an Enterprise first. 

362
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,200
I think, you know, there was 
still sort of waiting on that 

363
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:49,500
consumer facing, you know, Uber 
or Airbnb scenario. 

364
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:54,900
But if you look at those things,
I think it might be those things

365
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:58,600
will pop up, once you get 
industry-specific blockchains, 

366
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000
and then those will be ones that
cross those industry 

367
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,800
blockchains. 
The solve a unique problem that 

368
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:09,800
involves Financial Services 
Healthcare and iot for Example 

369
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,400
that would be a killer app. 
It's really the composite of 

370
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,900
this. 
So we're just building basic 

371
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,500
Plumbing now and within single 
Industries, once you start going

372
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:23,400
across industry that's where you
see, we'll start to see these 

373
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,300
really killer apps that come 
out, I think. 

374
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,900
Now, before we go into a 
Bletchley and a little bit more 

375
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:38,700
detail, what Microsoft's you 
know, blockchain efforts going 

376
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:42,400
to look like I wanted to bring 
up a concern that I think a lot 

377
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,500
of people have and I saw that 
mentioned somewhere, maybe it 

378
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:49,600
was a comment in front of you 
talks as well. 

379
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:55,000
So one of the simple premise of 
blockchain is this idea of 

380
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,700
decentralization, decentralized 
Control, decentralized process 

381
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:03,900
Saying how do you how does that 
play with something like a 

382
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:06,900
seizure which is a, you know, a 
centralized infrastructure 

383
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:11,400
provider that really also lives 
on economies of scale. 

384
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:16,200
Do you think, you know, what's 
the role here in terms of in 

385
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:18,600
while the technology is being 
developed? 

386
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,100
And how do you think that's 
going to change? 

387
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:23,200
When some of this technology and
these blockchains are going to 

388
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,200
go into production? 
So we talked about blockchains 

389
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,100
and Azure, we say you don't most
customers are going to run their

390
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:34,700
entire Block Chain, unless 
you're just doing Devon test, 

391
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,000
right when you're going into 
production, very few 

392
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Enterprises, even though they 
love us and they want to use 

393
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,800
Azure from a risk standpoint, 
they want to spread their risk. 

394
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,200
So they'll say, well, we need to
have multiple multiple providers

395
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,700
of this network. 
So you would put certain number 

396
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,700
of nodes and, and Azure, you can
put some number, a double. 

397
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:56,700
Yes. 
You have certain in your data 

398
00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:59,400
centers. 
So when we look at the 

399
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,900
blockchain layer itself because 
the consensus algorithms and the

400
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:09,100
database gets propagated 
invalidated between nodes 

401
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:14,300
regardless of where they live. 
That's the model that we would 

402
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,600
love people to have all their 
nodes and blockchain, but that's

403
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,200
not the reality and so we don't 
have any dependency. 

404
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,200
You can actually Use Bletchley 
without having a single node in 

405
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Azure and and just call up to 
those services from wherever you

406
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,000
are because it's just something 
out there in the cloud. 

407
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:46,200
So when we say we look at Azure 
as being the distributed, sort 

408
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,700
of fabric for that sort of 
distributed execution model and 

409
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:58,200
not necessarily the place where 
the Ledger Exists even though, 

410
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,000
you know, Azure is a distributed
system, it's all around the 

411
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,900
world but like I said, there's 
different levels of distribution

412
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:12,000
and that in that case you might 
have a Enterprises need to make 

413
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,700
sure that they spread their 
their nodes across multiple 

414
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,400
providers. 
And and its really gets multiple

415
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,300
counter parties because you 
might have certain 

416
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:26,400
counterparties and I Financial 
Services blockchain That on 

417
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,600
Azure customers. 
For example there, you know and 

418
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,200
IBM, those nodes will still work
on the same network. 

419
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:36,100
Let's take a short break to talk
about Jax. 

420
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,300
Jax is a multi coin wallet 
created by the people at the 

421
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:41,400
central. 
Now, in the past, if you had a 

422
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,100
whole bunch of cryptocurrencies,
it was a pain to handle them. 

423
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:48,600
You either had to leave them on 
an exchange, which was insecure,

424
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,800
or you had to have all these 
different wallets which was a 

425
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,800
hassle. 
Fortunately now with Jax knows, 

426
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,600
medieval days of darkness misery
and suffering are over Jack 

427
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,600
supports multiple 
cryptocurrencies and new ones 

428
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,300
are being added. 
Added, but it's not just storing

429
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,800
cryptocurrencies. 
You can do with Jax but you can 

430
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,000
also exchange directly from with
inside the wallet, thanks to 

431
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,200
their shape-shift integration. 
And since there's only one seed 

432
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,400
Jack's makes it super easy to 
back up and sink to your other 

433
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,100
devices. 
Jack's works with Windows. 

434
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:26,400
Mac OS, Linux, Android iOS. 
And has browser extensions for 

435
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,100
Firefox and chrome. 
So good at Jack's dot IO. 

436
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:31,700
That's j. 
A double x dot IO to download 

437
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:33,000
the wallet and get started 
today. 

438
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:35,500
We'd like to thank Jacks for the
support of epicenter. 

439
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:42,200
So moving on to Bletchley, 
there's a white paper that you 

440
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,300
authored, which is available on 
GitHub, will put the links in 

441
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:49,000
the show notes which is called 
The Bletchley white paper. 

442
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,800
And in this white paper you 
discuss some of the evolution 

443
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,000
from watching 1.02 want 
blockchain 2.0 the blushing 1.0 

444
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,400
being the sort of UTech so 
Bitcoin style blockchain. 

445
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,800
And then moving on from that, we
saw the technology evolves Into 

446
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,900
smart contract languages with 
aetherium and now into a new era

447
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:14,900
which is what you're calling 
blockchain 3.0. 

448
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:17,900
Could you talk about the 
evolution between these 

449
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:22,500
different versions of blockchain
Technologies? 

450
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,900
Sure. 
Yeah, so you take so it was a 

451
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,400
was built for a specific use 
case. 

452
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,000
So it was built specifically for
a cryptocurrency which is 

453
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,100
essentially Providence seeing a 
cryptocurrency transferring A 

454
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:38,200
ship and being able to make 
change. 

455
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:42,000
So it was built. 
And it does that very well. 

456
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,500
And it's we like to think of you
txo, if it's, if your, if your 

457
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,700
applications are only dealing 
with Bearer instruments. 

458
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:56,300
So you're proving ownership 
proving lineage and transferring

459
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,300
of assets. 
Then that model works. 

460
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:06,300
Very, very well and but it's 
somewhat restricted because an 

461
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,500
individual Bitcoin doesn't have 
an ID. 

462
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:16,000
It's just a sum of UT EXO's. 
And when you spend a Bitcoin, it

463
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,000
it's, you know, is still along 
with the same. 

464
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,700
It's just spread out as other 
you g EXO's. 

465
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,200
Well, when ethereum came out and
they introduced smart contracts,

466
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,200
it introduced some, some key 
innovations that the first of 

467
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,800
which was it had an identity. 
So, smart contract is 

468
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,800
essentially an account that 
persists So I can have an 

469
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,900
address and a sign of the 
identity to something. 

470
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:40,500
So I know it's going to be 
there. 

471
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,600
And I can also Define schema 
where as you TXS systems are 

472
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,200
essentially. 
I mean it, you can have 

473
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,300
properties in your transaction 
and asset but it doesn't have a 

474
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:55,900
strongly typed schema, which we 
found very interesting to be 

475
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:59,400
able to Define define schema and
then it can have Behavior. 

476
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,600
And the behavior piece was the 
smart contract specified argue 

477
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:05,800
that. 
It's actually there's three. 

478
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:10,100
Things together the identity 
building have schema and then 

479
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:17,400
having code or logic there and 
that was super interesting in 

480
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,900
that you could start to write 
these programs and do 

481
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,800
interesting things as an 
Enterprise developer that that 

482
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,600
grew up in that. 
Well, I went from writing 

483
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,900
client-server applications to 
having a right three-tiered 

484
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:35,800
applications learn some painful 
lessons about how we manage 

485
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,600
State and scale and separation 
of concerns to make sure that 

486
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,400
you can version things 
independently. 

487
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,600
And we learned a lot of painful 
lessons in the the 90s and the 

488
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,800
early 2000s, how to build 
applications web applications 

489
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:58,300
that could that could scale and 
and and serve the internet. 

490
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,000
So when looked at smart 
contracts so this is a great way

491
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,800
of of really doing other things 
on a block. 

492
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:07,800
Chain. 
However, I don't think it's 

493
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:14,700
going to scale to, you know, 
massive even private blockchains

494
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:18,700
that have millions of millions 
of millions of smart contracts 

495
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:24,600
running on the network at once. 
So immediately, just went and 

496
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
said, okay, let's decompose what
a smart contract actually is. 

497
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,300
And if we look at that, it's you
have defined your schema, which 

498
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:35,600
includes the properties that 
you're tracking and those could 

499
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,400
be The example, I always give us
with a loan. 

500
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,700
So if you take out a loan, maybe
it's a mortgage. 

501
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:46,800
You have a mount your borrowing.
So that's how much you're 

502
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,600
boring. 
You have an interest rate of a 

503
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,700
term and you'll have a that 
interest rate could be variable,

504
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:55,500
right? 
So you could get a fixed length 

505
00:32:55,500 --> 00:33:00,400
1 and that's the case, then it's
doesn't change, but you can have

506
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,600
a variable interest rate and 
then you have some rules about 

507
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:08,200
When what's your payment? 
When's it due. 

508
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:12,100
What what's the penalty? 
If you pay it late? 

509
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,600
And then what's the big penalty?
If you really go late, you know 

510
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,100
about foreclosure. 
Those are basically legal 

511
00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:22,600
Clauses and at the end of it, if
you've ever taken on a mortgage,

512
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,100
you get an amortization schedule
which is essentially predicting 

513
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,200
your future state. 
If you make every payment, this 

514
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,000
is how much principal is going 
to be over. 

515
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,100
A 30-year period if the 30 year 
loan. 

516
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,300
Now, if it's a float, Floating 
interest rate that amortization 

517
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:43,300
schedule, can vary based on how 
your interest rate can go up or 

518
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:46,100
down and things like that. 
But that's essentially contract.

519
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:50,300
And we said, okay? 
What portions of that need to 

520
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,700
be? 
If I was going to take this 

521
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,800
smart contract to say, I don't 
want all this stuff to be 

522
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:01,600
bundled into this one piece of 
code data, all intermingled on a

523
00:34:01,608 --> 00:34:04,600
node. 
And when I have 1000 node 

524
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:11,600
Network that, Smart contract 
runs a thousand times to do the 

525
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,000
same thing when I don't 
necessarily need that kind of 

526
00:34:14,007 --> 00:34:16,100
behavior. 
I want to be able to take out 

527
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:19,000
portions of it. 
So we said okay, what if you 

528
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,100
could say, keep the schema keep 
some logic that just validates 

529
00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:26,800
your data. 
So like store procedures, like 

530
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,300
type of behaviors for relational
databases where you're not 

531
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:32,199
putting business logic, but 
you're just validating inputs 

532
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:33,699
before you commit to the 
database. 

533
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:38,199
So we could validate signatures 
and Like and then record the 

534
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,300
basic static properties. 
Like the amount, you're 

535
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:48,199
borrowing signatures of the 
lender and the borrower, those 

536
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:52,800
are important but to capture but
then the Clauses themselves that

537
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,000
the payment the rate that they 
might need to be recalculated. 

538
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,000
And then the conditions of is it
late or not? 

539
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,700
And then how did that that 
payment? 

540
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:07,700
Apply that logic? 
It can be pulled out and 

541
00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:10,900
executed somewhere else as long 
as we can execute it. 

542
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,700
And then a test that it actually
does what it's supposed to do. 

543
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,200
And, and we can guarantee that 
it will run. 

544
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:24,200
So that's we said, okay, let's 
let's talk take a different 

545
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,700
differently about finding what a
smart contract is in a sense. 

546
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:31,100
It's taking what you T. 
XO BAE Systems always did, 

547
00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:32,300
right? 
They didn't have a smart 

548
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:34,800
contracted to find schema. 
They always built these 

549
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:40,100
Applications on top that had all
the business logic but they were

550
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:42,400
scheme of sole on the bottom and
it's hard to share that stuff 

551
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,200
across without using op codes 
and things like that. 

552
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:49,500
Whereas, this is a little 
cleaner and it, it feels like it

553
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,400
is built sort of Enterprises for
me to have strongly type schema,

554
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,700
some logic that can execute a 
smart contract to validate my 

555
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:02,500
transactions, but then raise up 
any logic that doesn't 

556
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:07,200
necessarily have to be on the 
blockchain and can be We had one

557
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,500
of the shared environment by all
the counterparties and get 

558
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:15,100
better performance and scale and
all that good stuff. 

559
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,300
Okay, so I think you sort of 
started to explain it with your,

560
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:24,000
with your answer, what we'll get
to in a bit, which is which is 

561
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,600
Bletchley. 
But if I can just rephrase that 

562
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:32,600
in the way that I conceptualize 
it as a, with this idea of 

563
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:38,500
blockchain 3.0 that that 
Bletchley introduces. 

564
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,700
What you're essentially doing is
rather than having all of your 

565
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:48,400
smart contract. 
Logic State storage and a 

566
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,100
distributed Network within one 
system, which is essentially 

567
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:57,700
what it would a theory, mm does 
you-you-you, decompose those 

568
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:00,300
components. 
So you decompose the business 

569
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:04,400
logic, you decompose you take 
out storage and you take out 

570
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,600
State and you take out all those
components, you split them up 

571
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:14,800
and then once You once you have 
that base architecture, right? 

572
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,800
Where all of those components 
can be sort of module eyes. 

573
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:19,500
I mean, sort of like application
development today. 

574
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:22,400
We're now, you know, you have 
your database over here. 

575
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,200
You might have cloud storage 
over here. 

576
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,800
You may have some other 
component over here and they all

577
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,000
interact together, but you're 
building this sort of moduli 

578
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,900
system. 
But then the other component 

579
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:39,900
that this introduces, is this 
idea that Rather than trusting 

580
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:43,300
all of this to a distributed 
Network where it's completely 

581
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:49,200
trustless, you can sort of pick 
and choose with every component.

582
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:51,300
What, where's the, where's the 
cursor? 

583
00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:53,700
Right. 
So if you want your storage to 

584
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:56,400
be fully distributed, the you 
can rely on just on a fully 

585
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,700
distributed blockchain type you 
know public network to do that 

586
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,900
but perhaps some of those 
functions eating into smart cam 

587
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,100
those smart contracts don't need
to Fully distributed, the you 

588
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:11,800
can trust some sort of trusted 
source to execute that logic and

589
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,200
provide results, and that's 
okay. 

590
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,800
And the people, you know, the 
participants in that wet Network

591
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,300
agree on that. 
And like some interest rate. 

592
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:24,000
For instance is that sort of a 
good representation of what what

593
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:30,100
he's trying to do. 
Yes, today's magic word is 

594
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Bletchley blet CH L. 
Ey head over to. 

595
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,500
Let's talk that coin.com to 
sign. 

596
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,400
In enter the magic word and 
clean your part of a listener 

597
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:48,100
award. 
So then let's, let's talk about 

598
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:50,100
the architecture. 
Describe the blush, Li 

599
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:52,300
architecture for us if you may 
sure. 

600
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:57,100
So at the bottom, when your 
provision one or more 

601
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:02,800
blockchains and so you can use 
the theorem, you could use 

602
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000
chain, you could use core data, 
you could use your whatever. 

603
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,400
You can actually use multiple 
ones. 

604
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,700
So above that is this thing 
called the corporate fabric, 

605
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:14,300
which is actually, right now, 
we're running and what we call 

606
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:20,300
Azure service fabric, which is 
essentially a cloud runtime, 

607
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:24,300
that its tracks behind it could 
be X. 

608
00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:27,400
Number of Linux VMS index. 
Number one, does vm's depending 

609
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,000
on what you're using and they're
sort of abstracted from you is 

610
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,000
Ben's up more and more resources
as you as you go along. 

611
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:41,900
And it manages the instantiation
lifecycle and fault tolerance of

612
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,800
components that are running it. 
So this is that serverless 

613
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,000
environment that provides the 
runtime which we call the 

614
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,100
Cripple of fabric the crippled 
fabric itself. 

615
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:57,200
It is that runtime of you 
register blockchains with it. 

616
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,700
You build cripple, its to run on
top of it and triplets, are 

617
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:08,200
these discrete levels of 
functionality, there's different

618
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400
types, we have utility crew 
plaits, which are usually 

619
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,500
thought of as Oracle type 
triplets or Oracle triplets. 

620
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,900
We have contract triplets, which
are taking that logic for a 

621
00:40:19,908 --> 00:40:26,900
specific smart contract and That
and within contract triplets, 

622
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:29,000
there's different types of 
contract triplets as well. 

623
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,300
But those are the two basic 
types and you have the option of

624
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:35,800
running these crippled its and 
an enclave. 

625
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:40,300
So they can run in a secure, 
isolated tamper-proof, 

626
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:47,300
environment that attests to the 
results so that they've they 

627
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:52,400
run, they ran and did what they 
say they did without you having 

628
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,300
to put The code on the 
blockchain, but rather just the 

629
00:40:55,300 --> 00:41:00,400
attestation of the signature for
guarantees that your logic ran 

630
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,000
as intended. 
So and then above that. 

631
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:12,200
So crippled Fabrics poses up 
sort of an event-driven API to 

632
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,700
blockchains underneath it. 
So you can subscribe, if you 

633
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:20,800
have a smart contract, you can 
subscribe to an event, so like a

634
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,700
market price. 
Every X minutes you can set. 

635
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,800
So time-based, you could say as 
a threshold. 

636
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,200
So let me know if oil goes above
$40 a barrel or below and then 

637
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,500
and when it does give me this 
price in this index and then I'm

638
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:43,000
going to do something on my 
Smart contract or you could do 

639
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,600
it based on. 
So that's threshold. 

640
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,100
You could do it the other way 
around. 

641
00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:52,700
You could also have them, 
subscribe. 

642
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,800
Two events to select your CRM 
system. 

643
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,600
So maybe your CRM system feeds 
into a kyc service that you're 

644
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,400
using an event that might happen
in CRM. 

645
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,500
You want to flow in your kyc 
system to update your, your 

646
00:42:06,500 --> 00:42:09,600
know, your customer system that 
you have there. 

647
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,700
So as a whole bunch of that 
exposes a surface level API as 

648
00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:18,200
well above crippled, it's where 
you can expose a cripple its 

649
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,900
functionality to a front end or 
another system. 

650
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,300
Get invoke report from the And 
have that transaction flow to 

651
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:29,000
the bottom. 
The other key piece that the 

652
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,600
crippled fabric does, is it 
abstracts the underlying 

653
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:34,800
distributed Ledger from the 
crippling. 

654
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,900
So, the cripple has no notion or
no, real idea, it has a 

655
00:42:38,908 --> 00:42:41,100
dependency on a specific Block 
Chain. 

656
00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:45,500
It's just running trusted 
executed code and sending out 

657
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:49,800
signed Json payloads. 
Which then get additionally 

658
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,900
signed by an autoclave if 
necessary. 

659
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:59,700
The crippled fabric then as it 
routes, it has bindings format 

660
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:03,400
messages for aetherium chain 
kurta. 

661
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,800
And the like, so it provides an 
abstraction for developers to 

662
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:10,400
not have to, especially if 
you're running reusable 

663
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,000
components, which is 
interesting. 

664
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,000
You can write these things as a 
cripple, it and have it work 

665
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,900
across all blockchains and not 
have to write one for each Block

666
00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:23,900
Chain, which makes it simpler 
Maybe an example for this. 

667
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,700
I remember, once, I talked to a,
we talked with a bank and 

668
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:31,000
dimension to issue of an 
interest rate swap, right? 

669
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,800
And the thing there is that 
there are some calculations that

670
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,400
you want to be done. 
But, you know, calculations 

671
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,300
putting on a blockchain, doesn't
work very well because they're 

672
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,800
just the poor performance isn't 
nearly good enough. 

673
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,200
So that will be a good case, for
example, for a triplet, right? 

674
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,300
So you would Define that 
function, you get executed on 

675
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:53,600
equipment and you can, you can 
If I, you know, as participants 

676
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,100
on and blockchain, you can see 
what was run in that Crypt, but 

677
00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:58,900
you can see what data was used 
as input. 

678
00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:01,500
What was the output? 
So, you know, I could, I could 

679
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:04,100
potentially run it myself. 
Check it. 

680
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,700
So you have, you know, you have 
lots of performance benefits. 

681
00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:10,600
And potentially, as you 
mentioned, right? 

682
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,300
You can you can have that 
crippled as its own sort of 

683
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:16,700
stand-alone almost like 
application providing kind of an

684
00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:20,300
API. 
So if we use different types of 

685
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:22,800
blockchain, you could always 
play Plug into that same thing 

686
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,300
is that that's kind of the what 
campus make possible, right? 

687
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:32,000
Yeah and you could also keep 
that algorithm secret so yeah 

688
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,000
you run it faster and you might 
have a IP in an algorithm that 

689
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,000
you don't want to share. 
So yeah it laws that as well. 

690
00:44:41,500 --> 00:44:45,000
So if you kept the algorithm 
secret do then you know I will 

691
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,800
be able to see the input the 
output but I wouldn't be able to

692
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,000
replicate You know, if I was 
some other participant on a 

693
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:59,600
chain, I wouldn't be able to 
replicate that, right, right. 

694
00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:02,100
Unless you subscribe to that 
same service. 

695
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:06,100
So from a and as far as the 
right into the blockchain, if 

696
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,500
you're just writing a value down
and you can depending on the 

697
00:45:11,508 --> 00:45:14,600
level of trust that you have. 
So some kind of parties entering

698
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,300
those things as perfectly fine 
with them. 

699
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:20,300
They they trust that algorithm 
maybe it's coming from a third 

700
00:45:20,300 --> 00:45:22,300
party. 
So Comes from a Reuters, for 

701
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:24,900
example. 
And they say, you were just 

702
00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:28,800
going to use that and we trust 
it it's going to sign with the 

703
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,200
signature that signature is 
actually based off the hash of 

704
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,600
the code that we all reviewed. 
So we can test that it ran the 

705
00:45:36,607 --> 00:45:40,200
code that we all reviewed and 
that's the output. 

706
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:43,500
So we trust it, but it, you 
know, maybe it runs in a 

707
00:45:43,508 --> 00:45:46,700
co-located space for Optimal 
Performance and things like 

708
00:45:46,700 --> 00:45:50,000
that. 
So, the Ripple guys wants to do 

709
00:45:50,008 --> 00:45:53,500
this project which was shot down
called koteas. 

710
00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:01,200
Sounds very similar to triplets.
Is it some of the same ideas or 

711
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,600
how did they differentiate it 
occurred is heavily influenced 

712
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,400
the the first approach, but 
actually the second approach. 

713
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,700
The first approach was for 
contract prevalence. 

714
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:15,300
So, how do we, how do we pull 
logic out of a smart contract 

715
00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:18,600
while keeping all the goodness 
of our Racks in the blockchain 

716
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,600
koteas, was, how do you do 
Sakura tested oracle's? 

717
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:25,800
And so, when we looked at 
various, I talked to the guys, a

718
00:46:25,808 --> 00:46:30,600
triple and and it was it, it was
abandoned because it didn't have

719
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,100
the ability to scale this, 
right? 

720
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:37,100
Worn a massive worldwide cloud 
provider to stand up this 

721
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:40,500
infrastructure and you know, 
said, hey, we are, I think we 

722
00:46:40,508 --> 00:46:42,500
could probably deliver something
like this. 

723
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,900
It's not. 
We don't have the hardware yet, 

724
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:47,500
but it's coming. 
And let's go. 

725
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,400
Build the infrastructure. 
Such that. 

726
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,800
There's a lot of people that 
have value to inject and systems

727
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:57,700
and give them a platform for 
exposing Oracle type behaviors 

728
00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:00,800
in a cripple, it, that then 
Enterprises are comfortable 

729
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,500
consuming because you could have
the best Oracle in the world, 

730
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:05,700
but if they don't process, it 
doesn't trust you. 

731
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,400
They're not going to use it. 
So how do we, how do we empower 

732
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,900
the smaller innovators in the 
software partners that we have 

733
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,200
and marry them up to these? 
Large Enterprises that That that

734
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,100
want their capabilities but 
don't know how to we can't have 

735
00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:22,500
that Marketplace to bring them 
together. 

736
00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:25,700
So, there's this idea of a 
crippling. 

737
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:29,400
I mean, it is some sort of an 
oracle, write it to a Smart 

738
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,100
contract. 
Anyway, the smart contracts use 

739
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:35,700
it as a source of data that the 
participants need to trust. 

740
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:40,200
And before the show, we were 
talking about how that works. 

741
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,800
You can you explain for those 
who are saying? 

742
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,800
I mean I can hear the Reddit 
comments and Twitter comments 

743
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,500
already where people are like 
you know this is just An 

744
00:47:50,500 --> 00:47:53,200
untrusted data being fed into a 
smart contract. 

745
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,300
This is ridiculous. 
Can you explain how a cripple? 

746
00:47:57,300 --> 00:48:02,400
It can provide a trusted source 
of executed data. 

747
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,700
So, if you take a cripple, it 
that would execute some function

748
00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:10,000
like, calculates, some sort of a
maybe we can get into some use 

749
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,300
cases. 
But right, you know, a cryptic 

750
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:17,500
that calculates, some sort of a,
some sort of a rate, which we go

751
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:21,000
into, you know, the A long 
contract. 

752
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,900
How can the participants trust 
that? 

753
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:25,500
Cryptic like what is the 
software and Hardware 

754
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:29,000
configuration that enables them 
to trust it? 

755
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:33,000
If I'm a smart contract 
developer, and I'm going to use 

756
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,100
Oracle crippling our utility 
crippling me, cuz it's going to 

757
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:43,200
provide me some result. 
It could be just a raw market 

758
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:48,300
price, or it could be a computed
value, that that I just need to 

759
00:48:48,308 --> 00:48:51,100
have for my smart contract. 
Well, when I do that, I'm 

760
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,500
essentially make a reference to 
that smart contract that I can 

761
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:56,900
find. 
I mean, to that, crippled it, 

762
00:48:56,900 --> 00:49:01,400
that I find in the each fabric 
has a A crippled Explorer where 

763
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,400
you can discover triplets what 
they do and you can subscribe to

764
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,500
them. 
The subscription process is 

765
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:13,400
essentially creating a binding 
between your smart contract and 

766
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,200
the crippling the requirements 
that you have when you're buying

767
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,800
in that way is you have to have 
a callback function because it's

768
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,800
an event. 
So it's a pub sub model so the 

769
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,300
smart contract is subscribing to
that IT wires up the trust that 

770
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:29,500
says it's only going to accept 
messages from this. 

771
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,800
Rippling address. 
So the crippled it signs it has 

772
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,900
an identity and it's signs. 
It's messages with that 

773
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:40,000
signature so you can trust. 
That's just one level of trust 

774
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,500
that the crippling can also be 
running an enclave. 

775
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,200
Like I said it could be if you 
want that level not that every 

776
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,900
krimpet needs that for most 
utility cripples unless it's 

777
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,600
doing encryption. 
It's probably not worth doing it

778
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,300
because you really have any 
secrets there you just sort of 

779
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,400
unless your algorithm secretly 
want to run it in an autoclave. 

780
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:04,500
You can But essentially that you
subscribe to it, you say these 

781
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:07,800
are my this is what I want you 
to let me know. 

782
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:13,100
Let me know if the markets were 
open at day and it's 4:00 

783
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:15,900
Eastern Standard Time. 
I Want To Know 9:00 a.m. eastern

784
00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:18,100
standard time and 4:00 Eastern 
Standard Time. 

785
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:22,400
I want you to give me the Libor 
rate and the price of this 

786
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,800
commodity or this list of 
Commodities. 

787
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:29,400
And so the crippled will say 
okay I'll let you know and the 

788
00:50:29,408 --> 00:50:31,800
crippled Goes out and runs. 
It runs in the fabric, the 

789
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,500
fabric, make sure that that 
crippled it is running that it 

790
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,600
is always an instance of it that
will fire your event. 

791
00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:42,400
It will, if something goes 
wrong, it'll fire up another 

792
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,400
instance. 
It's so that you're guaranteed 

793
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,200
to get that event. 
It will evaluate the conditions 

794
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,800
of the event, you subscribe to, 
and if it's true, it will get 

795
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,500
those values. 
It will sign its payload, if 

796
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:58,000
it's running and it will send 
that message, back through the 

797
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,700
back of the Fabric which will 
send it into the blockchain and 

798
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:08,000
that case it's sending it. 
You'll have to send that 

799
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,100
successfully idempotent lie, if 
you will, to a single node, that

800
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:18,100
will go to that smart contract 
and then that will get executed 

801
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:21,700
and sent around the rest of the 
network. 

802
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:25,900
That's the simplest mode. 
That's the Oracle contract 

803
00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:29,400
previously people would do 
oracle's and they would inject 

804
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,500
or Close to a separate smart 
contract and then you're smart 

805
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:35,700
contract, would watch that other
smart contract and you would 

806
00:51:35,700 --> 00:51:37,700
look at local events on the 
blockchain. 

807
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:43,800
This is more saying, okay, I'm 
delegating that pubsub model 

808
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:47,500
where the events can happen out 
in the real world and be 

809
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:52,200
injected directly to me so that 
I don't have this other smart 

810
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,600
contract out there and this 
intermediary. 

811
00:51:56,300 --> 00:51:58,800
That's there. 
You can still do that. 

812
00:51:58,900 --> 00:52:01,900
There's nothing stopping Being 
someone from doing a queuing 

813
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:05,400
mechanism, like that for a smart
contract, in a triplet as well, 

814
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,900
but you can do that straight 
binding between a smart 

815
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:12,600
contract, address a callback 
function, and the crippled it 

816
00:52:13,900 --> 00:52:14,900
for an oracle cripple. 
It. 

817
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:20,300
So, that's, that's the sort of 
the, that easy, the easy case. 

818
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:25,000
The, the contract triplet is or 
control crippled is the pattern.

819
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,100
We call is where you're taking 
that logic out, you're not just 

820
00:52:28,100 --> 00:52:32,200
getting The previous example, 
you're just getting a market 

821
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,300
data, price, or some calculation
performed, and then you're 

822
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,100
actually executing other 
logical. 

823
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:42,800
You're smart contract and 
persisting that if we don't need

824
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,000
that to happen, if we could 
actually do all of that logic 

825
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,500
and just write the results back 
we can then up shift and move 

826
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:53,000
all that smart contract code up 
into a cripple it and the 

827
00:52:53,008 --> 00:52:57,300
crippled it can then have a 
subscription to the market data 

828
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:01,400
of grip but that's maybe firing 
that How's the cripples can talk

829
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,900
to each other? 
So I can subscribe to other 

830
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:08,000
cripple its events that might be
providing Oracle capabilities. 

831
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,300
So it would give me at signed 
payload. 

832
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,200
And then I would execute my 
Logic for my specific smart 

833
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,600
contract in that crippled it and
then write the results out now. 

834
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,700
Contract, triplets are mostly 
usually going to be running an 

835
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:25,400
enclave. 
So The Enclave will attest that 

836
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,000
it ran in The Enclave. 
Unmodified at the results are 

837
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,400
guaranteed and right. 
Right, that back down to the 

838
00:53:31,408 --> 00:53:33,400
Block Chain. 
So the Block Chain, you'll have 

839
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:38,100
the results of the computation 
of the smart contract and then 

840
00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:41,100
you'll have the signatures of 
the crippling and The Enclave. 

841
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:46,500
So, you'll be able to have that 
full trust audit capability 

842
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:52,100
between the counterparties, 
which is how a contract crippled

843
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:58,500
or Okay, so it really all comes 
down to the level of trust that 

844
00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:03,300
you have. 
And in this crippling, I mean, I

845
00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:06,600
think that for for a lot of 
Enterprises, this will make 

846
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:12,300
sense because you know, there 
we're operating in a system that

847
00:54:13,700 --> 00:54:19,300
are there are rules and 
Regulation and and a prize tend 

848
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:25,700
to trust each other when they 
are operating within the blanket

849
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:31,000
of Regulation. 
And it seems to me like you can 

850
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:35,700
then based on your needs on the 
specific use case that you're 

851
00:54:35,700 --> 00:54:38,700
building you can set that cursor
for trust, right? 

852
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:42,200
So if if you need specific 
application logic to be 

853
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,300
distributed and because we need 
to be operating in sort of a 

854
00:54:45,308 --> 00:54:47,800
trust list way amongst each 
other. 

855
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,700
Other and, you know, these 
specific functions need to 

856
00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:55,300
operate on a blockchain because 
that's the only way that we can 

857
00:54:55,500 --> 00:55:00,000
achieve this trustless. 
Then that will that will suffice

858
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:00,800
for needs. 
Yep. 

859
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:06,800
However, for other functions, or
other pieces of data, rather 

860
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,700
than relying on say, like a 
prediction Market, to retrieve 

861
00:55:09,700 --> 00:55:13,500
the data, we're going to rely on
a crippled, it operated on an 

862
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:18,300
operating, on an enclave, where 
we have the audit Trail for Our 

863
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:23,300
provisioning of the keys 
provisioning of the business 

864
00:55:23,300 --> 00:55:26,500
logic and functions themselves. 
We can trace that we know it's 

865
00:55:26,500 --> 00:55:29,900
happening on an enclave, though.
There's a high, there's a high 

866
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:31,900
likelihood. 
There's a low likelihood that 

867
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:37,000
that will get hacked or, you 
know, there's the exploited and 

868
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,000
then so therefore we have a high
level of trust in those results 

869
00:55:40,300 --> 00:55:47,900
because we're operating in this,
former lies regulated, Ecosystem

870
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:53,100
or framework. 
And where do you think this will

871
00:55:53,100 --> 00:55:57,700
go? 
Then is its It's quite a ways 

872
00:55:57,700 --> 00:56:02,800
away from intellectually from 
etherium. 

873
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,700
Yeah, yeah. 
Watching Technologies of a 

874
00:56:05,700 --> 00:56:08,000
distribute everything 
distributed, you know, the 

875
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,400
application stack with ethereum 
ipfs Beach, ND, B, you know, 

876
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,600
we're truck. 
We're completely trustless. 

877
00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:20,100
That's quite a ways away from 
that, but it seems like it's 

878
00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:25,200
enabled by technologies that 
perhaps aren't Well available 

879
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,800
yet. 
Like that are not really 

880
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,100
commoditized, such as enclaves. 
Where do you see that going? 

881
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:34,800
Like, where do you see this 
going in the next 10 years with 

882
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:41,300
regards to I'll block chains and
these centralized Technologies 

883
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:44,800
but highly trusted technology 
is, how will they interact 

884
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,700
together? 
Yeah, I think it's a really good

885
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:49,900
point. 
I mean, that's a design choice 

886
00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:53,500
and and what we're trying to do 
is inject that design choice in 

887
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:54,800
there. 
So if you are on the completely,

888
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,000
trust this environment smart 
having your logic in the smart 

889
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,700
contract is the the most 
appropriate way for you to to do

890
00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:04,400
that. 
But in the semi trusted 

891
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:09,000
environment switch these Um, 
blockchains are this gives you 

892
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,500
that design as a software 
developer, and architect? 

893
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:16,100
You go and say, well, we're just
the right place for me to do 

894
00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:21,200
this based on the requirements 
and, and sort of move it based 

895
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,700
on that, trust pendulum, but 
also on the Privacy pendulum. 

896
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:28,100
So again if you have algorithms 
that are that need to be 

897
00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:33,400
private. 
If I have very complex 

898
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:38,700
counterparty multi counterparty,
Contracts where each counter 

899
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:42,800
party has to maintain Secrets, 
all validating the state in 

900
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,900
participating in transaction. 
The crippled its provides a 

901
00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:51,000
great framework for doing that. 
So I think what we'll see is as 

902
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,100
we start to roll out the crib 
but Fabric and you'll be able to

903
00:57:54,100 --> 00:57:57,500
spin up enclaves on demand. 
So as a developer, you really 

904
00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,400
don't have to think about. 
I don't know how to write an 

905
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,300
enclave for this chip 
architecture. 

906
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:05,500
It's simply a property that you 
checks is enclaved or not. 

907
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:10,100
And you're crippled it, it's 
actually getting all that 

908
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:15,200
services from a rapper. 
Anyway so you get that and it 

909
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,400
sort of commoditizing easy to 
do. 

910
00:58:18,100 --> 00:58:20,200
Now was who wrote start to roll 
that out. 

911
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,000
When want you to put everything 
in an enclave, if it's not 

912
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,300
required because it is a more 
expensive, it will be a more 

913
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:31,000
expensive because it's option. 
So you want to do it kind of 

914
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,600
selectively but it's a good 
tool. 

915
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,700
For doing that, I think. 
Is it, it rolls out of becomes 

916
00:58:38,700 --> 00:58:42,100
warm, or Commodities will start 
to see on claiming being used, 

917
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:47,400
Donna Leon in the cloud, but on 
desktops, and on mobile devices 

918
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,100
as well. 
So we already have on claiming 

919
00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:57,500
on phones, a good bet. 
We have it on most until desktop

920
00:58:57,500 --> 00:59:03,300
PCS that are Generation, 6 have 
enclave and capabilities whether

921
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:04,800
or not the bias supports it or 
not. 

922
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,100
So was We'll start to move this.
This type of secure execution 

923
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:13,200
will come more and more 
prevalent that the differences 

924
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:20,000
in the cloud is it's on demand 
at hyperscale and you only pay 

925
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,500
for what you use, you don't have
to go out and buy all these this

926
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:26,000
hardware and stuff. 
So I think it's going to be help

927
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,900
the evolution of applications 
and we'll start to see more more

928
00:59:29,900 --> 00:59:35,600
capabilities come together, but 
you still sort of need that that

929
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:39,600
we get the Best of Both Worlds. 
See a developer and public 

930
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:43,000
etherium. 
You can then start developing 

931
00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:46,700
Enterprise applications, but 
still use a lot of the same 

932
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:49,200
tools. 
You purchase things with a very 

933
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,000
similar mindset that the 
difference is, is you start to 

934
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,600
say, might call my logic is 
distributed different than my 

935
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,200
data in my state and it's done 
it. 

936
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,000
Different, trust levels, whether
it's completely, trustless are 

937
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,700
semi trusted, Two very 
discretionary trusts and the 

938
01:00:09,700 --> 01:00:11,600
execution layer. 
Cool. 

939
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,000
One of the main ways of 
monetization, as far as I 

940
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:20,400
understand with Azure is simply 
that, you know, I'm putting my 

941
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,200
application on Azure. 
I'm using up some computational 

942
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:27,400
resources and I'm kind of paying
by the computational step and I 

943
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,800
can certainly see how that will 
continue to be a role. 

944
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,300
But they say okay we make Azure 
the best platform for blocked in

945
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,000
applications in that way. 
You're going to get more usage, 

946
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,800
but are there also some novel 
different business models that 

947
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,400
you guys see emerging with 
blockchain on Azure you have 

948
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,200
been so for Bletchley we would 
spend a lot of time talking 

949
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,700
about crippled its but there's 
also some core crippled at 

950
01:00:53,700 --> 01:00:56,800
libraries that will be shipping 
and these will be this is 

951
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,400
functionality that we're 
exposing and Bletchley. 

952
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,200
These are the ones that are most
commonly asked for one is 

953
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:05,800
identity so that is identity and
key. 

954
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:08,000
A management we kind of paired 
together because they're very 

955
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,900
similar. 
So we have a an Azure, we have 

956
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:15,400
something called Azure active 
directory, we have over, 800 

957
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:21,000
million unique identities, 
within Azure active directory, 

958
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,800
is the standard for Enterprises 
to use active directories. 

959
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,800
It does Federation has a lot of 
things out of the box for you 

960
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,700
multi-factor authentication and 
things like that. 

961
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:35,400
So we're going to be providing 
that as a as a library as a 

962
01:01:35,408 --> 01:01:37,900
service. 
For distributed ledger. 

963
01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:39,900
So it'll be a part of the 
crippled Fabric and keep 

964
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:44,200
management as well. 
So issuing Keys manage the 

965
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,000
lifecycle of keys like key 
expiration key renewal. 

966
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,000
This type of things are pretty 
hard to do. 

967
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,500
We've got a lot of experience in
doing that and you tie that with

968
01:01:55,500 --> 01:01:59,800
active directory and you start 
to have the ability to provision

969
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:04,300
Keys based on someone's identity
and start to provision things 

970
01:02:04,300 --> 01:02:06,600
remotely. 
So you can Have nodes. 

971
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,800
Join a Consortium blockchain. 
As long as you have the right 

972
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,600
credentials, you can have a 
node. 

973
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,400
Join a particular Block Chain 
and the certificates for that 

974
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,200
know to participate in that will
be delivered through that same 

975
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,800
infrastructure. 
So we're actually standing on 

976
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,300
the shoulders of giants hear 
that stuff that's evolved over. 

977
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:27,500
25 years. 
So Azure active directory is a 

978
01:02:27,508 --> 01:02:30,100
piece of that the other pieces 
Key Management something, called

979
01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:33,500
key vault which is our globally 
distributed hsms. 

980
01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:38,200
The other one is Around 
cryptographic services. 

981
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,300
So we'll have libraries out 
there available to you if you 

982
01:02:41,300 --> 01:02:44,200
want to use homomorphic 
encryption zero, knowledge 

983
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:48,300
proof, all sorts of things will 
be sort of libraries that are 

984
01:02:48,300 --> 01:02:53,300
available there as well as a 
more distributed application 

985
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:55,800
patterns. 
So we call this Gateway services

986
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,900
so things like that. 
BTC relay for a theorem to 

987
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:05,000
bitcoin that can be put in that.
Gateway, you can write your own.

988
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,400
Multi Block Chain integration 
pieces but it has a distributed 

989
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,900
transaction coordinator and it 
has a distributed Ledger 

990
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,900
resource transaction 
compensation. 

991
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:21,400
So if you've ever seen how 
resource transaction happens, 

992
01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:23,200
compensation on a relational 
database. 

993
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,800
It can roll transactions back, 
we can't do that on a 

994
01:03:25,808 --> 01:03:29,600
blockchain. 
So we have to post corrective 

995
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,700
transaction so it's a modified 
version of that but there's 

996
01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:37,300
Enterprise development patterns 
for Complex transactions are 

997
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:40,900
being exposed there and those 
again are things that evolved 

998
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:46,000
through products like this talk.
And to allow your Block Chain 

999
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,800
systems to work with the rest of
the Enterprise, whether you have

1000
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,100
an Enterprise service bus, or 
any type of product, plug it in,

1001
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:55,500
and make it a first-class 
citizen on those networks. 

1002
01:03:56,300 --> 01:03:58,900
Okay, cool. 
Well, Marley, we're at the end 

1003
01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:01,700
of our episodes are, but thanks 
so much for coming on and 

1004
01:04:01,700 --> 01:04:04,200
sharing your bit about 
Microsoft's Vision, when it 

1005
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,700
comes to blockchain and the 
work. 

1006
01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:07,600
You guys have been doing with 
Bletchley. 

1007
01:04:08,900 --> 01:04:10,700
Thanks. 
Yeah. 

1008
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:14,600
I think it will be very 
interesting to see know not just

1009
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:20,100
how this plays out once and 
prices really utilize. 

1010
01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:22,500
Some of these tools that you 
guys are building, that others 

1011
01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:24,200
are building. 
And then we're really going to 

1012
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,400
see how that transforms the 
nature organizations, and how 

1013
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:34,200
they work in the fabric of 
business processes, down down 

1014
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,300
the line. 
I think that would be very 

1015
01:04:35,300 --> 01:04:38,600
interesting to see So, we have, 
if that we're at the end of our 

1016
01:04:38,607 --> 01:04:42,000
episode, we are absent as part 
of telescopic Network. 

1017
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,700
You can find this show and other
shows on, let's open, kind of 

1018
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:48,100
calm. 
And, of course, we, if you want 

1019
01:04:48,100 --> 01:04:50,900
to help the show them, please 
leave us in iTunes, from you. 

1020
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,900
I help you people find the show.
So thanks so much for those who 

1021
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:57,500
do that. 
And yeah, with that, we at the 

1022
01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:59,500
end and we look forward to being
back next week.