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Welcome to epicenter the show 
which talks about the 

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Technologies project and people 
driving decentralisation and the

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blockchain revolution. 
I'm Federica ants and I'm here 

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with Zubin co-teacher. 
And today, we're speaking with 

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Zeus. 
Who is the founder of Olympus? 

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Dow a limb. 
Mizdow is an interesting 

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project. 
It is a protocol managed 

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treasury that some have called a
Ponzi and we will get into that 

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in just a bit. 
But before we speak with Zeus 

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about Olympus now and let us 
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You can vote on that now, 
Perfect. 

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Quit Zeus. 
Thank you so much for joining 

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us. 
Yeah, it's great to be here. 

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Thank you for having me. 
It's a pleasure. 

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And so obviously, you're a nun. 
So basically we usually ask 

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people what they did before and 
how they got into crypto. 

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So maybe you can give us like 
the slightly lost over version 

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of this. 
Hmm. 

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Yeah. 
Spent a couple years in 

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traditional markets and then got
into crypto in like early, 2018,

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spend some time trading 
eventually, you know, I think, 

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especially during the, the 2018 
to 2020 like zero-sum, bear 

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market trading environment. 
Decided that that was not really

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the best use of my time but 
defies summer occurred and, you 

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know, there's This proliferation
of new ideas and you know, like 

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this first real utility for 
smart contracts and especially 

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on a theorem or pretty much 
solely on a theorem. 

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At that point. 
I found that fascinating to that

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stood out to me, was, you know, 
kind of earlier in the like 

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actual summer was ampleforth and
the other being like the bases 

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ESD DSD whole wave of 
seigniorage. 

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Like stable coins, you know, II 
was especially drawn to algo 

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stable coins. 
You know, I kind of came in as a

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Bitcoin guy. 
I see, you know, the one of the 

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biggest utilities of this new 
like blockchain technology, as, 

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you know, creation of new user 
owned and decentralized 

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currencies and monies. 
And so that was, you know, where

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I kind of kept most of my 
attention, you know. 

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I kind of witness the the the 
rise and fall of all of those 

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different experiments. 
It got me thinking especially 

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with ampleforth and like the 
rebasing where, you know, it's a

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pretty new phenomenon in, you 
know, Finance in general is just

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the ability to, you know, 
unilaterally, adjust supply, of 

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an asset. 
And yeah, I mean, at that point 

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started thinking about the, the 
base concept that It ended up 

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being Olympus tried to pull kind
of the things that worked didn't

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work from all these various 
experiments. 

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And then yeah kind of, you know 
created this Persona in December

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met Z prime or Memphis cantus. 
Who rip he was supposed to be 

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here, um unfortunate. 
But yeah, I mean kind of got 

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into the swing of things. 
We launched Olympus back in. 

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Ouch, and yeah, it's been a 
pretty crazy year and I'm sure 

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we'll get into that. 
Cool. 

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Um, how would you describe? 
Ohm in a nutshell? 

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And what made you excited to 
build this? 

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Or how did you come up with the 
idea originally? 

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Yeah, so, um, aspires to be a 
reserve currency and the the key

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word there is currency, right? 
So first of all, not a hedge 

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fund, I'm trying to be a hedge 
fund. 

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A lot of people have been 
claiming that we are and I 

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disagree and I don't think that 
like an amount of money makes 

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you had fun, just by default. 
Anyways, you know, so what I see

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is that we currently have 
several different forms of money

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in crypto, you know, so the most
well-known ones are probably 

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Bitcoin in a Mmm, but we don't 
have any actual currencies. 

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There is a difference between 
the two. 

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So the things that are held up 
as you know, great for money's 

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like Bitcoin and etherium, you 
know, the fact that they are 

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hard and that they're, you know,
immutable and monetary policy to

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at least a high degree and that 
they, you know, are in some part

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designed to appreciate and 
definitely, you know, those make

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for great monies. 
They don't make for good 

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currencies. 
And what we've seen is because 

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of that much. 
Or that lack, there has been 

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this hyper dollarization of the 
industry. 

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So stable coins are you know, 
the the fastest-growing asset or

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yeah, like class of assets and 
crypto by a large degree, you 

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know, they make up spots like 
three and four on the top 10. 

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Now, you know, there's like more
than 150 billion in market cap. 

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It points to a massive Market 
need for an actual currency in 

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the industry. 
And if we don't build one, that 

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is defy native or Krypto - it 
will just Be tokenizing, the 

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tried fi equivalence. 
So, you know, that's the goal of

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own is to be that you know, 
internet native currency rather 

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than a money. 
So how does own this set out to 

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become a better form of currency
than the US dollar? 

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Yeah, so there's a couple 
components one, you know, so 

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there's this rebase mechanism in
the for the we'll talk about 

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this more. 
But you know what? 

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One of the purposes that that's 
meant to achieve is that you 

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don't want your currency to be 
changing rapidly in value over 

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time or, you know, pretty much 
at all. 

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Like, you know, the ideal 
currency is going to maintain 

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the same purchasing power 
indefinitely, you know, maybe 

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some amount of inflation. 
It is good and that it pushes 

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people to use their money and 
not just hoard it. 

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But, you know, you can just 
think it's like ideally flat, 

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you know, if you have, that's 
difficult to to, to balance with

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incentives, right? 
Where there's this, this need to

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incentivize people to build up a
new monetary Network, you know, 

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you're going to be taking on 
risk. 

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That it doesn't work. 
You do. 

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You also have other 
opportunities that you can go, 

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and, you know, take your money 
to pursue. 

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And so there needs to be some 
incentive to bootstrap the 

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network. 
If you don't want that incentive

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to be price growth, then you 
need something to defer that 

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price growth on to something 
else. 

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So, you know, there's a three 
base mechanism that essentially 

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gross supplies. 
So that the price can stay 

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relatively stable where you 
know, the price of own has been 

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+ - I mean, it's more like 
somewhat volatile but + - you 

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know, 50% Send two hundred 
percent the same price since we 

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launched. 
I think currently like as of 

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today. 
It's 50% below. 

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Like the initial price of the 
network has grown, but the price

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itself can remain within a 
consistent band. 

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Where, you know, the the goal 
intent is that over time 

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volatility constricts, but you 
know, you always have a 

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reasonable expectation of what 1
ohm is worth, you know, and that

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allows you to price Goods. 
And efficiently, you know, like 

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I would want to like the biggest
issue with a currency that is, 

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you know, one volatile or two, 
you know, consistently trending 

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in a single direction is that 
you're constantly forcing people

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in the economy to update the 
price of their goods, right? 

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So if you're a company and 
you're trying to sell some item 

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and you determine based on the 
input costs and how much profit 

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you're trying to take that, it 
should go for this amount of 

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money. 
And you spend a bunch of money 

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on marketing to Advertise that 
product to people saying cost of

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this amount of money. 
If that prior if the value of 

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that money is constantly 
changing, then you have to like 

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throw that out the window, you 
know, every couple months and 

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update all of your materials 
saying, oh, it's actually now 

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this price and you know, you it 
produces instability within the 

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economy because people never 
have an anchor to lean on. 

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How does this compare to other 
mechanisms that aim to keep 

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stable value, but not 
necessarily dollar value. 

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So an example of that would be 
right. 

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What do you think? 
Owen does better or differently 

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than those? 
Yeah. 

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So I mean the difference is just
that they're, you know, while we

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are in this very early stage of 
home. 

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There's a speculative component 
to it. 

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You know, there is upside in the
growth of the network and you 

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can take part in it, you know 
like Rye is Actually took the 

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their route of let's be that 
currency from day one. 

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And the issue that they've run 
into is that there's no 

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incentive to grow that Network 
or really use it. 

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Where, you know, it's like the 
end state is yes. 

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You have a non USD currency that
like, has its own monetary or 

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independent activity, but, you 
know, there's been a very 

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difficult, I think, like 
acquisition. 

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Of user experience for them 
where like, you know money or a 

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currency is a network effect at 
the end of the day, you know, 

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it's just a medium for people to
interact with each other and I 

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would see him the, the, you 
know, that ultimate Behavior as 

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needing the network effect 
behind it. 

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Already for it to really work 
otherwise, like, yeah, I mean, 

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it just makes it a lot harder 
than, you know, we are in an 

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industry. 
That is primarily driven by 

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speculation and you can either 
fight that or you can harness 

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it, you know, that's kind of the
difference that would say Is the

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so it seems like you mentioned 
there's like a speculative 

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component or we're in a speck of
the phase 4. 

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Ohm. 
Is that something that you see 

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going away? 
And how do you like get to 

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non-speculative face? 
Yes, I see it diminishing. 

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So a lot of this is modeled on 
bitcoin where it's not trying to

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replace Bitcoin. 
I think that there's no need to 

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do so, but rather to take what 
worked for Bitcoin and apply it 

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to something that is not trying 
to do which is money versus 

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currency. 
And what we've seen with Bitcoin

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is that you know, as it gets 
larger, you do have just natural

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reduction of volatility you do 
just have these things start to 

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take form. 
I don't think that they will 

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ever Like reach a point of 4X 
level or like low volatility, 

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but you know essentially like I 
would see it. 

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As with growth, you hit points 
where you know, just the 

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expectation of returns 
diminishes, you know, like what 

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people are shooting for with a 
ten million dollar asset or 100 

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million. 
Dollar asset is very different 

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from a trillion dollar asset. 
I don't think anyone's looking 

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for the next hundred X on 
bitcoin, you know, and with that

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like, you know, just as you 
scale the the expectations 

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diminish and you know, it 
becomes more palatable because 

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you you've introduced different 
people that are there for 

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different reasons than, you 
know, they might be very early 

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00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,800
on. 
You know, it's also at that 

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point less of a speculative 
Endeavor, you know, conceivably 

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many of the issues and open 
questions and you know, all of 

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these risks are of his items 
that, you know, create the 

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asymmetric opportunities, you 
know, have been answered and 

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00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:59,400
have been satisfied already. 
So almost fractionally backed by

227
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,400
a basket of assets and this 
basket of assets. 

228
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,900
So basically, as far as I could 
see, it's mostly USD, stable 

229
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,600
coins and pretty volatile assets
like ether, right? 

230
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,300
So, basically, how does this 
comport with what you're saying 

231
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:20,200
about a stable asset? 
That's not correlated to the 

232
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,800
dollar. 
That's not that doesn't, that's 

233
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,200
just not just pegged to the 
dollar. 

234
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,100
Yes, I you know one I would not 
consider their being a direct 

235
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,400
correlation between the value of
almond, the value of the 

236
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,800
treasury, you know, there's an 
indirect correlation between the

237
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,400
two but you know, like if eith 
is 100% of the treasury and he 

238
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,900
goes down 1%, that does not mean
that ohm is going to go down 1%,

239
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,000
excluding the the liquidity 
portion of it, which I'll touch 

240
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,700
on a sec. 
But you know, essentially, the 

241
00:14:52,708 --> 00:14:54,200
goal there is that we are 
accumulating. 

242
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,100
What is currently Vivid money or
our currency, you know, like, 

243
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,700
those are whatever. 
What is recognized today, you 

244
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:05,900
know, there's no reason to fight
that, you know, essentially, the

245
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:10,100
purpose of the treasury is that 
the the protocol has purchasing 

246
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:15,600
power, you know, to influence 
the market if it needs to and to

247
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,300
do that, you need to have a 
treasury that consists of assets

248
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:21,300
that will continue to be 
recognized as valuable. 

249
00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:25,800
You know, like today I would 
consider those as You know, 

250
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:32,100
primarily USD and then like 
ether / B TC and it's a lot 

251
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,600
easier for us to have Ethan 
Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin on a 

252
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,600
theorem is trusted in any form 
to some degree. 

253
00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:43,200
So, you know, it's primarily 
there's also liquidity in there,

254
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,200
you know, so that liquidity is 
paired against also, you know, 

255
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,900
like die or E3 but they are 
different Assets in that, you 

256
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:54,800
know, the liquidity is paired 
against um, you know, it has 

257
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,500
varied Direct like utility for 
the market in that the protocol 

258
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:00,200
is facilitating trading at all 
times. 

259
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,200
And then, you know, one other 
piece that, you know, I think 

260
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,700
it's super interesting. 
And I don't think gets 

261
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:08,900
recognized that often is that 
because the protocol is the one,

262
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:12,800
providing all the liquidity, you
know, any time that someone is 

263
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,000
making a trade, the protocol is 
the counterparty on that trip. 

264
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:18,400
So there's this question of 
like, you know, when is the 

265
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,000
treasury going to be deployed 
into the market, you know, 

266
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,500
especially like lately because 
we've, you know been down in the

267
00:16:23,508 --> 00:16:26,600
dumps a little bit and it's like
Okay, the treasury is actively 

268
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,100
buying back every time someone 
sells, you know, a we keep, you 

269
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,800
know, generally more than half 
of the treasury and liquidity. 

270
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,400
Where you know, it's actively 
deploying significant amount of 

271
00:16:36,408 --> 00:16:40,200
money to allow people exit, if 
they want to, you know, those 

272
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,700
reserves which is money that is 
kept off to the side, you know, 

273
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:47,100
for the purpose of like, you 
know, you don't want to have 

274
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:49,300
everything exposed to the market
at any given time. 

275
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:52,500
But you know, that is actively a
dynamic, you know, pretty much 

276
00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:55,400
24/7. 
Got it. 

277
00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:01,200
So, you have this protocol owned
liquidity, which is the protocol

278
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,200
basically buying and selling and
it seems like that's related to 

279
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,099
bonding. 
There's like bonding and 

280
00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:14,200
staking, right? 
That are the two main things 

281
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,599
that one can do in the protocol.
Can you talk us through how that

282
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:23,800
creates this more stable 
currency that you ain't from 

283
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:30,300
with with So first just kind of 
explain them. 

284
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:42,400
So bonds are a automated and I 
see it as a removed moral hazard

285
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,700
from the equation of the 
protocol liquidating its own 

286
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:49,200
token and exchange for assets. 
So it's looking to accumulate 

287
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,900
assets, you know, there's a 
route that you can take of just 

288
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:57,000
meant a bunch of tokens into a 
multisig and sell them into the 

289
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,700
market. 
Market, that is wrought with 

290
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,000
moral hazard. 
Um, you know, there are so many 

291
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,100
things that can, you know, 
either go wrong there or be, you

292
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,500
know, used for malicious actions
in, you know, either a direct 

293
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:11,100
way. 
You're just like stealing money 

294
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,500
or an indirect way of your 
front-running trades and, you 

295
00:18:13,508 --> 00:18:14,700
know, you're doing things like 
that. 

296
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,700
So, the bonds, you know, have, 
it's essentially a mechanism 

297
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,200
where it spins up an isolated 
market for an asset. 

298
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,700
It prices that asset based on 
third-party Behavior. 

299
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:30,600
It doesn't use a Oracle. 
And, you know, one thing that is

300
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:35,100
unique to the way that we 
Implement them is that they 

301
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:42,100
defer trades over a set amount 
of time, you know, so you go and

302
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:46,300
you Bond and you know, maybe 
your vesting term is a week and 

303
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:48,600
you will not receive those 
tokens until a week from that, 

304
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,900
you know, the protocol pays a 
little discount or a low premium

305
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,100
on the assets for that because 
you as the buyer are going to 

306
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:59,700
look for some level of Count to 
accept that illiquidity, you 

307
00:18:59,708 --> 00:19:03,000
know, otherwise you can just go 
to the market and buy there and 

308
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,500
you know, you have the tokens 
right then. 

309
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,500
One of the things that the the 
bonds accomplish is that they, 

310
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:11,200
you know, provide liquidity to 
the market where, you know, 

311
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,500
right now it's one directional 
flows. 

312
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:15,900
So it's providing sell-side 
liquidity. 

313
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,000
That's kind of a mean, like VC 
say it, but I do think that it's

314
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,700
quite valuable in that, you 
know, one of the issues that you

315
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,300
will run into especially with 
early-stage projects is just 

316
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,700
that there's not enough 
liquidity for, you know, people 

317
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:33,900
to enter and so they won't. 
You know, if it's not where you 

318
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,900
can only buy 10K, Earth without 
moving the price by 10% and so, 

319
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:40,500
you know, if that's not enough 
of a position for you to really 

320
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,400
care about it, then you're just 
going to go somewhere else. 

321
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:48,700
So I will add, you know, I think
that especially probably in the 

322
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:52,400
near future that will move to a 
net system where you're doing to

323
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,600
way. 
Flows protocol is actively 

324
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,400
buying and selling and it just 
becomes what is the net of that?

325
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,700
So it has its old more, this day
has, it bought more this day and

326
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,000
that gets determined by how 
people are behaving in the 

327
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,600
market. 
So if the market moves down, And

328
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,400
it'll buy more. 
If the market moves up, it'll 

329
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,000
sell more. 
And then if the market goes 

330
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,100
flat, you know, you have some 
net. 

331
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:16,400
That's kind of like, to the 
staking, is this component where

332
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,400
you have tokens and you can 
stake them with the protocol to 

333
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,600
earn more tokens and, you know, 
especially historically. 

334
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,600
This has been had quite High 
rates. 

335
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,400
The reason for that is that the 
protocol was accumulating assets

336
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,800
at quite High rates relative to 
to market cap and to you know, 

337
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,500
the treasury that already had. 
The dynamic that this has. 

338
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,800
So when you offer bonds, they 
are inherently deflator 

339
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,700
delusionary onto the market, 
right? 

340
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,800
So you're creating new Supply 
and you are adding it into the 

341
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,200
market and you know, everyone 
else is ownership of the network

342
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,000
is going to decrease as a result
of that. 

343
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:57,400
The the analogy that I would use
here with house taking plays 

344
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,000
into this and I see this is one 
of the chief, like benefits of 

345
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:08,200
it is You know, imagine like a 
bucket or a pool or something of

346
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,400
water and you drop some dye into
it. 

347
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,100
And if that water is still, 
you're going to see the dye in 

348
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,000
the water, you know, it depends 
on how much you put in there. 

349
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
But if you imagine, it's like a 
decent amount. 

350
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:23,400
Then the water is going to 
change colors with the staking 

351
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,300
does is it makes that water 
moving? 

352
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,100
So, you know, now imagine the 
same thing, but with the stream 

353
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,700
and you dump well, are, you 
know, dye into the stream and 

354
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:34,200
you'll see it for a second, but 
then it To Peyton a moves 

355
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,700
because the water is constantly 
moving and it's getting shifted 

356
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,000
around to everything and it gets
swept down. 

357
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,700
We're like, I think it's pretty 
crazy. 

358
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:47,900
So we have grown supplies since 
launched by 87% and the 

359
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:52,100
treasury's worth 600 million 
dollars, you know, our our 

360
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:58,400
market cap has been below that 
for what like 60% of that time, 

361
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,900
you know, so without even 
selling half of the supply, you 

362
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:05,300
know, It was able to accumulate 
a significant amount where, you 

363
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,000
know, essentially that's taking 
component protects everyone from

364
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,600
that dilution. 
It spreads that impact of the 

365
00:22:10,608 --> 00:22:14,900
bonds out, you know, it defers 
it over time so that it is not, 

366
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,300
you know, it would be 
economically unfeasible. 

367
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,200
I think to do this. 
If you did not have that steak 

368
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,600
and component there, the good 
thing though is, you know, 

369
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,100
because we started with, you 
know, very very high rates and 

370
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:29,200
you know, the result of that is 
one you're going to have a lot 

371
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,900
more volatility because flies 
growing really quickly. 

372
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,900
You know to the bond discounts 
get really deep because you 

373
00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:40,300
know, there's additional implied
volatility. 

374
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:43,900
There's also yet. 
I kind of keep up with what 

375
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:47,100
staking is going to provide and 
so the protocol has to spend 

376
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,500
more for every, you know, asset 
that it takes in. 

377
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:54,200
But you know, we started out 
very high because the treasury 

378
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,500
started with like a quarter 
million dollars and, you know, 

379
00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:00,100
the growth that you're targeting
is incredibly high in a 

380
00:23:00,108 --> 00:23:03,700
percentage basis from that, you 
know, at this point Point with a

381
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,600
600 million-dollar treasury, you
know, like the the growth that 

382
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,800
we target remains high, but it's
not that hot, you know, it's 

383
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,500
significantly lower than it once
was. 

384
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,100
And so there's taking rates can 
come down and with those taking 

385
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:21,200
rates coming down, you know, you
see decreased volatility as a 

386
00:23:21,208 --> 00:23:25,500
result of Supply expansion, you 
know the rate at which 

387
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,500
everything is growing around, 
you know, the liquidity and 

388
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,400
around the treasury is Sharing. 
And so the treasury doesn't even

389
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,200
have to sell as much because, 
you know, essentially the goal 

390
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,100
with the treasury is that you 
want to keep up with the rate of

391
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:42,400
inflation in the network, you 
know, you don't have to add ever

392
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,100
or at any single given time. 
So there are times when you're, 

393
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:48,300
you know, growing slower than 
the network time for me wrong 

394
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,500
faster than the network. 
But, you know, on a net basis, 

395
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,400
you want to match it if supplies
growing slower, you don't need 

396
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,100
to do. 
So as quickly. 

397
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Yeah. 
It just makes everything a 

398
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,600
little easier. 
You can start to smooth things 

399
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,200
out. 
You can Start to like we're 

400
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,500
pushing out the bond terms. 
Now. 

401
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:10,000
We're you know, we had five day 
terms for pretty much the first 

402
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,600
nine months and now there's like
a there's 14-day minimums. 

403
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,500
There's like a 30 day out there.
Now. 

404
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:17,800
I think we're going to start 
pushing for like a 60 in the 

405
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,700
90-day start doing quarterly. 
He's a lot of cool stuff opens 

406
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:27,800
up when like you don't have 
10,000 percent eighty wise, you 

407
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,300
know, it's actively like a - it 
served its purpose but Glad 

408
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:35,300
we're done with them. 
This is em. 

409
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:39,100
Can you maybe talk about bonding
and staking? 

410
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:44,400
In terms of when they under 
which conditions they make you 

411
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,500
money, and under which 
conditions, they lose you money.

412
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,400
Yeah, so I'm going to talk in 
terms of how the bonds working 

413
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,500
now. 
They shifted a little bit. 

414
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:57,600
We have this like me to 
mechanism but I don't think that

415
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:03,000
it's that useful to let go into.
So, I mean, it actually makes a 

416
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,100
lot easier with like this genome
token, that we now have, which 

417
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:10,800
you can think of it like a bag 
of, um, you know, so it 

418
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,700
encapsulates, all of the re 
bases that are experienced in 

419
00:25:13,708 --> 00:25:16,900
the market. 
So, you know, a uses this index 

420
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:18,600
which started at one when we 
started. 

421
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,900
And then every time those 
rebates, the index increases by 

422
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:24,300
the rebates Mount. 
So, you know, if you're a 

423
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:27,600
Staker, the price of own itself 
is not particularly important. 

424
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,900
If you look at the price of gym,
that's essentially like the the 

425
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,200
the analog to like a normal 
token, which some people don't 

426
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,600
like this and I understand why. 
But you know, I do think that at

427
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,900
this point like, you know having
that direct relationship 

428
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,100
available to see easily is a 
positive. 

429
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:52,900
But, you know, essentially the 
Seeker what you're looking for 

430
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:59,900
is that, you know, your Holdings
increase at the same rate or, 

431
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,400
you know, probably ideally for 
you a greater rate than the 

432
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,600
price of own depreciates. 
And you know, there's this D 

433
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:14,000
correlated dynamic between the 
thus taking growth and the price

434
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,400
of own. 
So, you know, the staking index 

435
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,900
is constantly increasing. 
Price own kind of traits on its 

436
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,300
own. 
So, you know, over a long span 

437
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:26,600
of time. 
It's expected to depreciate but 

438
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,900
you know, as period where it 
appreciates it as periods, where

439
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:33,100
depreciates and you know, like 
you can expect in the long-term 

440
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:36,500
that it will decrease in price, 
but you know, the path that it 

441
00:26:36,508 --> 00:26:41,600
gets to get there is anyone's 
question for a bonder. 

442
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,800
I mean, essentially what you're 
looking for is a similar 

443
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,400
Dynamic, but in herb adding a 
Time component, To it. 

444
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:53,300
So the way that the bonds work 
now, which is a little different

445
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:57,700
from how it used to is that you 
are offered a discount. 

446
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:03,200
The discount gives you an amount
of genome, which is staked and 

447
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,300
you now, hold staked exposure, 
but you're a liquid until some 

448
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:11,000
amount of time into the future. 
So, you know, the dynamic here 

449
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,900
and, you know, what? 
We generally see is that you are

450
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:15,100
a home or your ass taker 
already. 

451
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:18,700
You see some discount? 
That is appealing to you. 

452
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:20,800
You witch, you know, pretty much
any time. 

453
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,100
It's above zero percent. 
You're going to outperform if 

454
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:25,800
you just staked either. 
There's some amount of extra 

455
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,500
discount that you're going to 
want because now you have to be 

456
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:33,800
a liquid and you weren't before 
but you know, let's say it's 2% 

457
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,400
where you're like, yeah, that's 
that's it. 

458
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,400
You would, you know, under steak
go acquire, use your own to 

459
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,300
acquire whatever asset the 
treasury wants. 

460
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:44,000
Give that to the treasury. 
The treasury will give you this 

461
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000
note that says hey in two weeks.
I'm going to give you this 

462
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,900
amount of genome. 
Is 2% above what you had before 

463
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:53,900
and you've now increased their 
Holdings by 2%. 

464
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,300
So it the way that it primarily 
is utilized is essentially like 

465
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:03,300
a mechanism to increase your 
Holdings in the network. 

466
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,000
So you are assisting the 
treasury in acquiring assets. 

467
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:12,500
You're doing the actual 
execution work for it. 

468
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,100
Right? 
So this is this like removable 

469
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:17,300
moral hazard is that you don't 
have anyone doing execution of 

470
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:18,700
Trades, you know, it's 
decentralized. 

471
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,000
Raised in. 
It's like carry out but you're 

472
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,400
also taking on illiquidity, for 
the network, and in exchange for

473
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,000
that, you get to increase your 
Holdings in it. 

474
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,900
So, you know, it's this like 
accumulation mechanism or 

475
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,100
method. 
So in effect, you give the Dow 

476
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:37,100
alone, right? 
So I know which says how come 

477
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:42,900
stances would that be a loss 
making operation for you? 

478
00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:50,600
Yeah, so I mean, I would say Ohm
terms, you're never going to 

479
00:28:50,608 --> 00:28:54,900
take a loss. 
The loss scenario would be lets 

480
00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:58,900
say you hadn't gotten the bond. 
And you know, it doesn't even 

481
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,400
need to be price goes down 
because you can think an 

482
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,000
opportunity cost terms. 
I think that's more fitting, but

483
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000
price goes to some level. 
Where if you were liquid, if you

484
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
had those tokens in your wallet,
you would have sold. 

485
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,800
But instead because you're a 
liquid you cannot do that and 

486
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,500
you have an opportunity cost of 
not being able to do that. 

487
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:20,400
So that's your loss scenario. 
Oh, there is that you were not 

488
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,600
able to take that action until, 
you know, however, many days or 

489
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,200
weeks in the future that you can
now receive your tokens back and

490
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,800
do whatever you want with them. 
So if you say you can't take a 

491
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,400
loss in terms of ohm, basically,
if the value of ohm decreased 

492
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:44,300
you would take a hit right or 
you would in USD terms or he's 

493
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,400
terms or whatever. 
But in terms of home, you know, 

494
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,800
your steak to swim. 
You bought a bond with a 

495
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,000
positive discount. 
You have more room than you 

496
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,900
would have had. 
Otherwise, unless you were doing

497
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:59,900
like a swing trade where you 
sold them Bob, but I mean, I 

498
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:02,400
don't consider that a little 
separate. 

499
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,100
It does prevent you from doing 
that because you're like, but if

500
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:12,500
the the scenario is your state 
or you bonded at a positive 

501
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,100
discount, I can guarantee that 
you have more home at that point

502
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:18,600
than you would have otherwise. 
Oh, yeah, that means you have 

503
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,400
more own but that all might be, 
that might be worth less. 

504
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:23,900
Yeah. 
Okay. 

505
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,000
Yeah. 
No, so totally like, you know, 

506
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,400
at the end of the day it comes 
down to USD. 

507
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,700
You, I guess for I mean we want 
to displace this Dynamic, right?

508
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:36,500
But it generally does come down 
to what is the dollar price of 

509
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,200
my Holdings? 
And yeah, if the price of them 

510
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,000
goes down greater than the 
staking rewards provide, you 

511
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,300
more ohm and greater than the 
discount on your bond, bumped up

512
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,000
your steak Holdings, then. 
Yeah, you would take it on the 

513
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,700
walls. 
One question around this. 

514
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,000
So it seems like the dynamic 
first acres is that you? 

515
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400
And just tell me if this is like
a long, the right track. 

516
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,700
You lose money on depreciation 
of ohm, but since you're getting

517
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:13,200
paid in rebasing, every time a 
woman has bought your you would 

518
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:18,300
expect to be net positive. 
Is that how it works? 

519
00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:23,400
In terms of like staking? 
Yeah, so I mean, essentially 

520
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,000
your value equation is price 
times Supply. 

521
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,000
So, you know, for most assets, 
your valuation is just going to 

522
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,500
be price. 
You know, that's the only 

523
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:34,800
independent variable that 
influences anything and you 

524
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,500
know, you're holding is are 
going to be static. 

525
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:40,200
Maybe you're staking for, you 
know, five six percent yield or 

526
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,000
something. 
But you know, you can consider 

527
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,700
that someone negligible. 
So, you know, really all you 

528
00:31:44,708 --> 00:31:46,300
care about is the price of the 
asset. 

529
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,800
Whereas in this case, it's a two
variable equation, right? 

530
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,400
So, it's the The price of the 
asset times, how much Supply I 

531
00:31:52,408 --> 00:31:55,600
have. 
And, you know, you combine that 

532
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:02,100
into what the actual value is. 
What, what leads you to believe 

533
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:07,300
that in the long run, the money 
that stickers make from 

534
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,400
rebasing, will be higher than 
the amount they lose on 

535
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:17,000
depreciation of home price. 
Yeah, so there's this argument 

536
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,200
that has been made which is that
ohm should trade for the value 

537
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,600
of the treasury, which I think 
aligns pretty well. 

538
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,200
There is, you know, this idea 
that oh, you like, you know, 

539
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,600
it's just going to depreciate 
back down to the treasury and 

540
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,000
you know, whatever value you 
have is just going to be 

541
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,500
whatever the whatever you're 
like RV or like, if you have 1% 

542
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:43,500
of the network, 1% of the 
treasury is going to be your 

543
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:48,500
Valentine. 
I I think that that take is very

544
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:53,000
flawed, you know, the easiest 
way to debunk it is that it's 

545
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,000
like the equivalent of just 
saying that any asset should go 

546
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,400
to zero over time, you know, 
because that's essentially what 

547
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,400
it is, like II view. 
The treasury as offsetting 0 up,

548
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:06,700
right? 
So you have, you know, in a 

549
00:33:06,708 --> 00:33:11,500
normal Network that has no 
assets behind it. 0 is 0. 

550
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:13,600
And then that or in a market 
that has 100 million. 

551
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:17,600
Dollars in assets behind it. 100
million is zero, you know, 

552
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,900
that's the point on which you 
can Ascent like 0 is your floor 

553
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000
for the market. 
And if you have an entity or you

554
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,800
know, the protocol which can set
the floor at a higher price with

555
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:34,000
infinite assets relative to to 
supply to, you know, maintain 

556
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,600
that floor like you literally 
cannot lose this game, you know,

557
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,300
what has more money that I can 
buy back every single token in 

558
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,600
Supply and have money left over 
then you just off. 

559
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,700
That your zero up. 
So, you know, is there a 

560
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,800
guarantee that staking rewards 
increase faster than the token 

561
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,700
depreciates? 
No, same as you know, is there a

562
00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:59,300
guarantee that Bitcoin will go 
up in price? 

563
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:07,200
No, is there a, you know, it is 
there any guarantee that, you 

564
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,800
know, USD will depreciate slower
than the federal funds rate like

565
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,500
probably not. 
Or even faster than your curve 

566
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,600
yield. 
No, you know, everything carries

567
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,100
risk, you know, that especially 
anything that has upside, right?

568
00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:27,199
So if there's upside, there's 
always going to be downtown, you

569
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,000
know, I think that our success 
comes down to a lot of factors 

570
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,000
and like, like really the 
staking yield is a abstraction, 

571
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,300
right? 
So it's kind of irrelevant, you 

572
00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,199
know, it serves a purpose which 
is that we can have a relatively

573
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,500
herb we can have consistent. 
On the asset while still having 

574
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:49,400
growth in, you know, that people
as part of the network and take 

575
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,600
part in, but it's kind of 
irrelevant like, you know, this 

576
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,699
is why I kind of like genome 
even though a lot of people 

577
00:34:55,699 --> 00:35:00,600
don't is that it does like 
shatter that illusion and I 

578
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,200
think that's why people don't 
like it but like, you know, it's

579
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,500
got happened sometime and you 
know like that. 

580
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,700
That's essentially what the, the
staking abstracts away, you 

581
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:15,200
know, and it has purposes that 
are not really like Make you 

582
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,500
think that you know, I don't 
view the the purpose of this 

583
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:22,800
taking rewards as make you think
that you know, the price will 

584
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,400
stay completely flat guaranteed 
and you will earn 1000 % AP w. 

585
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:35,500
So talking of of yield. 
So Olympus doubt advertised for 

586
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:41,100
the longest time and I think 
still does apis of a thousand to

587
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:44,900
ten thousand percent. 
Can you explain those? 

588
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:53,800
Yeah, so the equation to compute
apy in any scenario is the the 

589
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,100
amount of yield in some period 
times the number of periods in a

590
00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:00,200
year. 
So we do re basis every eight 

591
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:06,400
hours in a year. 
There are 1095-a Tower epochs. 

592
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:12,500
If the yield is like Point 16 
percent, then you end up with a 

593
00:36:12,508 --> 00:36:15,300
thousand percent apy, you know, 
historically. 

594
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,800
It's been higher. 
I think early on it was like, 

595
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,100
point six or something. 
But you know, like that is 

596
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:26,700
computed correctly. 
I also, you know who it would 

597
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:32,000
pretty strongly argue that it, 
was true, you know, so what 

598
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,400
we're looking at, we're still 
two months out, but the, you 

599
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,600
know, initial apy Force taking 
was around, 100 thousand percent

600
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,600
and we will probably end the 
year at 130 index, which is 

601
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,400
actually 13,000, but I would 
consider that pretty damn close,

602
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,700
you know, and in the coming 
year, so we're lowering two 

603
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:59,100
thousand percent roughly which I
think will be done in like a 

604
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:03,200
week or two. 
The expectation is that that is 

605
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,800
maintained for around a year, 
you know, essentially we have 

606
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:13,500
this framework that every time 
supply has increased by 1000%. 

607
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:21,200
The the rate is cut by I think 
it's 25 or 30% per Deepak, you 

608
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,800
know, so Essentially like, you 
know, with 1000% apy that will 

609
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,600
be 1000% apy for the entire year
and you know that framework is 

610
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,900
also like very public and widely
known where, you know, you can 

611
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:37,600
forecast it pretty easily into 
the future. 

612
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,100
Even if like, you know, like the
rate is accurate. 

613
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:44,600
But whether that persists for 
one year from when you start is 

614
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,800
a question, but you can compute 
what it will actually be just 

615
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,800
based on that framework. 
Yeah, so so so, so if you zoom 

616
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,000
out of it, where does the value 
come from? 

617
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,300
So where's the value actually 
created? 

618
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:07,800
Yeah, so it is a mix of 
intrinsic value, which is the 

619
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,300
treasury and extrinsic value, 
which is a monetary premium. 

620
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:17,600
So if you look at Bitcoin or 
eith, you know, there's some 

621
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,500
level of value there and like, 
you know, I think eith is 

622
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:22,400
probably the stronger one that 
you can make this argument on. 

623
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,100
But you know that comes from 
fees that are generated. 

624
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:30,300
But, you know, a very large 
degree of, it is just monetary 

625
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,800
premium. 
Same goes for gold or there's 

626
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,200
industrial uses for gold, you 
know, you can turn it into 

627
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,200
jewelry. 
That's not what makes gold 5 or 

628
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,300
10 trillion dollar asset. 
What makes the five or ten 

629
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:43,100
trillion our asset. 
I can't remember which one it 

630
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:48,700
is, but is monetary premium. 
It's that we as human beings 

631
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,200
figured out a long time ago that
it's inefficient to use as 

632
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,700
money, something that is worth 
that actual amount, you know, 

633
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:59,000
because then you're just wasting
a bunch of value in the economy.

634
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:02,600
And so instead we place a 
monetary premium on If we 

635
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:06,200
increase the value greater than 
what it actually is, so that we 

636
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,400
can trade with something that 
you know, it's really just based

637
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,800
on social consensus and utilize 
value for actually valuable 

638
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:20,100
activities rather than just to 
sit in a vault or your pocket or

639
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:22,700
under your bed waiting, for you 
to go spend it and then someone 

640
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:23,900
else does the same thing with 
it. 

641
00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:29,800
So what, what I take from this 
is that basically you can create

642
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,000
arbitrary profit. 
It's as long as people don't 

643
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:33,800
cash out. 
Right. 

644
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,600
So basically those are book 
profits. 

645
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,500
So basically, if I wanted to, I 
could start the stable coin and 

646
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:43,400
say doubles its value. 
Every other value every other 

647
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,900
day. 
And on paper, the holders of 

648
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,800
this table coin would soon be 
very rich indeed. 

649
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,300
But if they end up looking to 
redeem, that's a totally another

650
00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:56,400
story, right? 
So, basically, can you walk us 

651
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,500
through how Olympus would deal 
with a significant amount? 

652
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,500
And of stickers and Bundys 
redeeming. 

653
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,000
Yeah, so I mean like I'll first 
say that this is the case with 

654
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,100
any asset. 
So it doesn't even have to 

655
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:14,800
appreciate if anyone hold the 
error. 

656
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,600
If everyone holding some asset 
looks to cash that acid out. 

657
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:22,400
The value of it is going to go 
down, you know, unless you have 

658
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,600
some entity or group of buyers 
that are going to buy every 

659
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,800
single token off of them. 
You know, it's just how the 

660
00:40:28,808 --> 00:40:31,800
market works, right? 
Supply and demand pushes the 

661
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,500
market to a price of the single 
point in time based on supply, 

662
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:38,700
and demand at that time. 
And if Supply or demand changes 

663
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:42,000
in the price will change what 
the protocol does do is, you 

664
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,100
know, one it facilitates trading
and offers the market itself. 

665
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,000
So you have this guarantee that 
there will be liquidity in the 

666
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,500
market. 
And so, you know, on a normal 

667
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:55,100
day when you're not in, like if 
you're not in a bank run 

668
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:59,600
situation, then the protocol is 
completely capable pretty much 

669
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,400
all the time of allowing you to 
get out. 

670
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,200
If you want to get out, you 
know, which like Bank Run. 

671
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,700
Scenarios are really a lot. 
Loss of confidence and so, you 

672
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:13,000
know essentially like I'll talk 
about that but barring that loss

673
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,900
of confidence there's no issue 
there, you know, you can have 

674
00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:19,500
the same Dynamic with 
third-party LPS, but you have a 

675
00:41:19,508 --> 00:41:21,700
trust relationship that those 
LPS are getting continue to 

676
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,100
provide that liquidity. 
Otherwise, you can have that 

677
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:27,100
Dynamic deteriorate. 
So it's like suddenly there 

678
00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:30,600
hasn't even been a loss or loss 
of confidence with holders, but 

679
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,600
no one can leave, you know, 
there's just no liquidity for 

680
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,600
you to sell into. 
Indeed the bank run scenario. 

681
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:42,800
So, you know, you still have the
protocol providing liquidity. 

682
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:45,600
And so, you know, it's actually 
buying back throughout this 

683
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,900
process, but the you know, the 
price starts to tank because 

684
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:50,800
more and more people are selling
and you know that leads to more 

685
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,900
and more people selling and you 
know, you can kind of spiral 

686
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,800
again. 
This is the dynamic that you can

687
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,000
see it, literally anything. 
But, you know, we're not immune 

688
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,700
to that we have yet to do this 
and I will Kind of go into why. 

689
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,100
But you know, the idea is that 
in these scenarios, the protocol

690
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:14,300
Taps into reiterates reserves 
and says, okay, we're going to 

691
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:16,400
step in and provide that by side
liquidity. 

692
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,100
So you can leave. 
And because this is a confidence

693
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:22,300
crisis at the end of the day. 
It's just that people are scared

694
00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:24,500
that if they don't leave. 
Now, they're not going to be 

695
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:27,500
able to and so everyone wants to
leave at the same time the 

696
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:31,900
treasury stepping in quelles 
that confidence issue, right? 

697
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:34,300
Suddenly. 
Everyone is satisfied because so

698
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:38,100
if I want to sell Protocols got 
my back treasury's, got my back.

699
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,200
It's gonna let me do so at a 
reasonable price. 

700
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:42,900
And so I don't need to sell and 
suddenly no one wants to sell. 

701
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,600
You know, like this is how 
currencies work. 

702
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,000
Like, you know, if everyone 
decides tomorrow that they need 

703
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:56,200
to get out of USD or Euros or 
you know, anything those, you 

704
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,900
know, even the strongest 
currency in the world will 

705
00:42:57,900 --> 00:43:02,800
collapse, you know, it is 
guaranteed, like, you know, it's

706
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,300
just a matter of like generally 
that's not an issue. 

707
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:08,400
I know when it is an issue, they
can step in with their foreign 

708
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,500
reserves and, you know, satisfy 
the, the masses that are so 

709
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:15,400
scared. 
This is what like FDIC insurance

710
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,100
does as well for commercial 
Banks which you know instead of 

711
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,500
being worried about a bank run 
that everyone is going to pull 

712
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:24,700
money out of your your specific 
bank. 

713
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,300
And there's going to be no money
left because you know, the bank 

714
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:29,300
is doing factoring reserve and 
its lending out your money to 

715
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:30,900
someone else and it doesn't have
it on hand. 

716
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,600
FDIC Insurance in the US will 
Print dollars and give it to the

717
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,900
bank. 
So that that concern does not 

718
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:41,000
exist. 
There is never a scenario in 

719
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,000
which there's not enough dollars
to pay you back. 

720
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,300
And so you never see a bank run,
because why would you have a 

721
00:43:46,308 --> 00:43:48,200
bank run? 
There's no concern to be happy 

722
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:51,400
in terms of why we haven't done 
this yet. 

723
00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:53,600
I see it as just a matter of 
scale. 

724
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:56,900
Right? 
So essentially the bank run 

725
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:01,900
situation is a game of chicken. 
You, you have the the market 

726
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,700
which is looking to exit and you
have the, the treasury Which is 

727
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:09,000
looking to prevent them from 
being concerned. 

728
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,200
So I guess the market is 
concerned and you know, they're 

729
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,600
action that they will take is 
that they're all going to dump 

730
00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:20,200
and the the treasury wants to to
calm those concerns and you have

731
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,600
a game of chicken. 
Who's going to Blink first is 

732
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,300
the market going to Blink is the
treasury going to blank the 

733
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:29,300
dynamic that you need to have. 
There is, you know, who's going 

734
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:30,800
to win this game of chicken, 
right? 

735
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,300
So if the treasury steps in and 
it starts buying but you know it

736
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:39,000
Have to spend too much of its 
reserves to do so and suddenly 

737
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,200
the treasury shrinking to, you 
know, that's going to compound 

738
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,500
the issue of it's gonna make it 
worse because you know, suddenly

739
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,200
whereas previously you had the 
treasury can step in and you 

740
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,300
know, people are going to be 
comment by that alone where you 

741
00:44:52,308 --> 00:44:55,500
know, the bank run won't be as 
bad because that still exists. 

742
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,700
Once you start tapping in in in 
size, you are you are going to 

743
00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:02,200
get hit with the situation of 
like oh shit. 

744
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:04,600
Now the treasury is smaller to 
and so there's people that were 

745
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,000
fine before. 
No longer. 

746
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,200
So this is the dynamic that you 
need is. 

747
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,300
If you think of this game of 
chicken has like two cars and 

748
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:14,400
they're driving at each other, 
and it's a matter of who's going

749
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,500
to turn first. 
You need the treasury to be an 

750
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:21,900
18-wheeler, you know, it's got 
to be a much larger car than the

751
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:24,300
car driving at it. 
So that, that car driving and it

752
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:27,900
knows that it has no chance of 
winning this fight, you know, it

753
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:32,100
can overpower you with ease. 
It's not going to tap in even a 

754
00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:34,300
significant portion of its 
Treasury and it's going to calm 

755
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:36,800
everyone down. 
Going to be just fine and that 

756
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,900
removes the need for this 
scenario to ever even happen, 

757
00:45:40,100 --> 00:45:43,000
you know, because you know that 
it's just going to win like, you

758
00:45:43,008 --> 00:45:45,600
know, there's this common saying
like don't fight the fed, you 

759
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,100
know, it's because if you fight 
the FED like, you know, maybe 

760
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:53,500
there's some tail risk scenario 
where the FED actually does lose

761
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,800
but you know one you got bigger 
problems that happens and to it,

762
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,400
you know, pretty unlikely and 
that's like the last event that 

763
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,200
you're going to have is when 
that when that occurs. 

764
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,600
So you just don't do it, you 
know, you don't like it's going 

765
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,700
to win. 
Well, why why fight a fight that

766
00:46:10,700 --> 00:46:14,300
you're going to lose? 
But just, I mean, the reserves 

767
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:18,200
way smaller than the outstanding
loans, right? 

768
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:23,000
So basically, how do you create 
that confidence? 

769
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:28,600
If it's not borne out, by fact 
the treasury is smaller that, 

770
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:33,800
basically, everyone who held 
home where to cash out. 

771
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,400
There's Way that this could be, 
could be borne out by the 

772
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,000
treasury, right? 
Yes. 

773
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:46,900
So, it really just comes out. 
I mean, so I would ask the same 

774
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:50,500
with like, literally any asset 
where that is the case. 

775
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:53,300
The difference is just that you 
have a guaranteed buyer in the 

776
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:56,000
market. 
And, you know, a comes down to a

777
00:46:56,008 --> 00:46:59,400
nominal game where like, you 
know, historically we have been 

778
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:05,300
on a reserve base has backed 5 
to 10% and on a total Treasury. 

779
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,400
You back to like twenty to forty
percent. 

780
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:14,700
So, you know, in that scenario 
where it's like 40% right now, 

781
00:47:14,700 --> 00:47:17,200
you know, so it's a 
billion-dollar actually right 

782
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:17,600
now. 
Damn. 

783
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,800
It's like six hundred sixty 
percent, you know, it's a 

784
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,800
billion dollar market and you 
have, you know, like 500 million

785
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,200
in actual Assets in the 
treasury, you know, there's a 

786
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,000
reasonable case that like you 
could deploy those assets and 

787
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,700
either like accomplish that 
goal. 

788
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,900
But did the issue is still that 
that's not that much money in 

789
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:41,900
the grand scheme of things, you 
know, so there are plenty of 

790
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:45,400
just single whales in this 
industry that have multiples 

791
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,600
more money than that, you know, 
like so the nominal kind of 

792
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,800
hurts you and that, you know, 
the nominal needs to be to the 

793
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,300
degree that like, there's just 
no point here, you know, so if 

794
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,300
if you maintain that same level 
of backing in this grows into a 

795
00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,000
trillion dollar asset, then 
suddenly you have a treasury 

796
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,500
with Billion dollars in Assets 
in there with the sole purpose 

797
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:10,800
of just cashing people out if 
they want to get out. 

798
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,600
Like that's probably enough 
liquidity for everyone. 

799
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:15,900
You know, Bitcoin doesn't have 
400 billion dollars worth of 

800
00:48:15,908 --> 00:48:19,000
Assets in there waiting to 
deploy in and you know, it's 

801
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,500
drawn down but not like, you 
know, there's no Bank Run 

802
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,800
concern really. 
At this point in time, you know 

803
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,800
in this point in its life that 
everyone is going to dump like 

804
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,900
this is the Ponzi argument that 
people made at it for literally 

805
00:48:31,900 --> 00:48:35,400
A decade is you know, if 
everyone decides to sell it 

806
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,100
Going to go to zero in there, 
right? 

807
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:42,100
But like, you know, money's and 
currencies are a consensus 

808
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,300
mechanism, you know, they come 
down to just social consensus, 

809
00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:50,100
that this thing has more value, 
even though inherently. 

810
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:55,100
It does not or in our case. 
It does not to that degree, you 

811
00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:56,900
know, her. 
Like I think it just comes down 

812
00:48:56,900 --> 00:49:00,800
to, you know, time where you 
need to go through a bunch of 

813
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,200
really tough scenarios and you 
need to, you know, rise really 

814
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,900
quickly and Drop really quickly 
and you know kind of lash people

815
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:11,700
from side to side and really 
show them like okay here is 

816
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:14,500
every scenario that can happen 
and it's still alive. 

817
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,500
You know, that alone just has 
that Dynamic of like, you know 

818
00:49:17,500 --> 00:49:21,800
mitigating that concern. 
I would like to add something 

819
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,500
here. 
So I think this is I see where 

820
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:29,100
you're coming from but for 
instance die, I mean this is 

821
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:31,900
over collateralized. 
So basically this does not hold 

822
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:34,800
right and basically also for the
US dollar system. 

823
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,300
Yeah, I mean, obviously I mean 
we've had fractional Reserve 

824
00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:42,000
banking for a long time and it's
not covered in gold or anything.

825
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:47,200
But I mean, if you look at the 
assets that back the debt that 

826
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,000
is that is held in u.s. 
Dollars. 

827
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:53,800
You know, all the houses and 
businesses and so on. 

828
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,300
That is actually, I mean, the 
value of that is actually weigh 

829
00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:02,300
in excess of of the u.s. 
Dollar value as well. 

830
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:04,900
Right? 
So it's so in a way, this is 

831
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:09,000
also over collateralized. 
So I would view them as 

832
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:13,300
essentially, traditional 
currencies our debt-based 

833
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:16,400
currencies, right? 
So there, you know, for the most

834
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,000
part produced by collateralized 
debt against something else, you

835
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,800
know, is plenty under 
collateralized run, 

836
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,000
collateralized debt out there. 
But you know, like or you're 

837
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,700
talking about with you know, you
draw, you know, you take out a 

838
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:30,000
mortgage against a house or, you
know, something like that. 

839
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:33,400
You're right in that. 
I mean there's an argument to be

840
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,300
had like, you know, there's dad 
is going to inflate the price of

841
00:50:36,300 --> 00:50:39,200
Housing and you know, like the 
Value that house is not as great

842
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,500
as the loan that you took out, 
but, you know, barring, that 

843
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:44,700
that's correct. 
Like, you know, ohm is 

844
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,500
essentially Equity based 
currency. 

845
00:50:47,700 --> 00:50:50,300
So, you know, and instead of a 
debt relationship, you have an 

846
00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:54,200
equity relationship, you know, 
which is more akin to like how 

847
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,600
money Works, which is pure 
equity, in a sense. 

848
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,600
You know, I would also, just 
argue, in the case of like died,

849
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:03,200
you know, there's a month, 
tricky relationship. 

850
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,300
Like this is something that I 
kind of learned with the whole 

851
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:09,100
algo stable weight, which, you 
know, if this is a confidence 

852
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:11,600
thing, you know, and that's 
really what it comes down to is 

853
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,900
just like, you know, how people 
on a aggregate level of viewing.

854
00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:21,200
This a peg is a very dangerous 
thing because you're essentially

855
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,700
telling the market to derive all
of its Confidence from being 

856
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:30,400
this one price and if it is ever
not that price you you risk a 

857
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,000
roading confidence like on an 
aggregate level and when that 

858
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,600
happens you compound the issue 
because you Youyou deep egg 

859
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,200
slightly and then people start 
to get out because you've deep 

860
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,100
egg slightly and suddenly the 
peg more and more people are 

861
00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:47,100
going to leave. 
And you know, you can spot like 

862
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:48,700
this. 
How all the I was tables 

863
00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:51,100
essentially failed is that you 
have a very small D pegging 

864
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:53,200
incident that turns into a 
full-on collapse. 

865
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:57,200
We don't have a peg, you know, 
so it it removed like, you know,

866
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,000
this is why you need to be over 
Claudel as disabled coin, you 

867
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,500
know, are what I have one more 
point there, but like, you know,

868
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:09,200
to a large degree, is that you 
need to have Absolute control 

869
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,800
over meaning maintaining that 
bag at all times. 

870
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,500
Otherwise, you risk, total 
collapse, and it can happen in 

871
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:16,900
an instant. 
But essentially what the debt 

872
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:19,300
does, right? 
And that collateralization is 

873
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:22,000
that guarantees demand for the 
asset, right? 

874
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,000
So you don't need to have 
someone come in and buy die for 

875
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,600
die to come back up to Peg, you 
know, because you're just going 

876
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,800
to liquidate debt and that's 
going to serve as your demand. 

877
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,200
And you can guarantee that 
that's the same thing 

878
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:36,800
essentially that the treasury 
does. 

879
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:38,900
Which is that the treasury 
Guarantees that there will be 

880
00:52:38,900 --> 00:52:41,800
demand in the future for the 
asset, you know, so it's a 

881
00:52:41,808 --> 00:52:45,500
similar purpose, but, you know, 
like, I personally think that 

882
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:49,600
like, debt based systems turned 
pretty Insidious, you know, 

883
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,900
relatively quickly and, like, 
you know, I think Equity base 

884
00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:57,500
currency is, you know, at a bare
minimum like pretty unexplored 

885
00:52:57,500 --> 00:53:02,600
in, you know, like modern the 
modern, currency landscape. 

886
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,000
I'm of the belief that it can 
work. 

887
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,800
But, you know, I guess that 
that's part of the Experiment. 

888
00:53:10,500 --> 00:53:15,900
One question I have around. 
This is empirically, you talked 

889
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:19,500
about. 
Being down in the dumps a little

890
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:22,500
bit how have like speakers and 
Vonda is done. 

891
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:26,300
And what do you think is driving
that market cycle? 

892
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,200
So, you know, I think that one 
of the main issues. 

893
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,200
So there's two components that I
think really like because, you 

894
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,800
know, you can look in, like, 
it's draw down a lot. 

895
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,800
But if you zoom out more than 
like, three months, it's, you 

896
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,500
know, remains flat or up. 
You know, I think that there is 

897
00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:50,300
two things. 
So one was the entrance of a new

898
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,300
type of Market participant in 
Mass, which was a lot of people 

899
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:57,700
that were looking at. 
The apy is guaranteed money and 

900
00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:01,100
were We're aggressively 
deploying in and, you know, 

901
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,100
discovered that it can draw 
down. 

902
00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:07,600
And, you know, suddenly like, 
you know, the time Horizon was 

903
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,200
very short, you know, they're 
looking to come in, get rich 

904
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,900
quick and then leave. 
And you know, you can look at 

905
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:16,000
pretty much any any Market in 
the world, you know, if your 

906
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,300
Market becomes dominated by 
those type of participants who 

907
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:20,200
just going to go up really high,
and then you're gonna go down 

908
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,200
really far just, you know, how 
it works because, you know, the 

909
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:27,600
it's a reflexive relationship. 
I mean, I personally like the 

910
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:32,200
Really spent past August of last
year, like disconnecting from 

911
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,700
social media and was not 
particularly active in the 

912
00:54:35,707 --> 00:54:38,700
community. 
You know, I do regret that now 

913
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,300
because I spent, you know, the 
first 6 Plus months of our 

914
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:45,000
existence like really urging 
people against that, you know, 

915
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,200
trying to explain that the the 
yield is not free. 

916
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:49,700
Money. 
It serves a purpose. 

917
00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:53,800
And, you know, we're 
communicating like, you know, 

918
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,800
essentially what it is, but, you
know, you know, that's not how 

919
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,400
you should view it. 
It's That you are guaranteed 

920
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,400
this amount of money, you know, 
II stopped doing that for for a 

921
00:55:03,408 --> 00:55:05,900
period of time. 
And I regret that, you know, I 

922
00:55:05,908 --> 00:55:07,900
know that there are other people
that did that but the other 

923
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:10,300
voices on the other side of the 
aisle kind of one out. 

924
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,600
I think for a period of time, 
the other issue that we ran into

925
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,300
and I think that this was the 
much more significant one was 

926
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:20,300
dead, right? 
So, you know, kind of going 

927
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:22,500
along the lines of this is free 
money. 

928
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:25,300
People started to lever up 
aggressively, you know, they 

929
00:55:25,300 --> 00:55:30,400
call it 99 you. 
No, so you take you, you take 

930
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,600
your own, you go to a lending 
Market, you borrow against it, 

931
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:39,100
you use that to buy more home, 
you know, hopefully you don't do

932
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:41,900
this again where you'll ever 
against it again, but I think 

933
00:55:41,900 --> 00:55:45,300
that they were probably people 
out there doing that where the 

934
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:48,100
market built up like a quarter 
billion dollars worth of debt in

935
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:52,300
the span of like two and a half 
months, you know, aggressive 

936
00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:55,500
growth of debt. 
And you know compounded by the 

937
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:59,800
fact that because this is on a 
secondary Market where you need 

938
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,500
real. 
People lending money for people 

939
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:05,800
to borrow so you can compare 
this to like die, which is a 

940
00:56:05,808 --> 00:56:09,200
primary Market where Dy is 
minted for you to borrow and so 

941
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,400
you can control those interest 
rates and keep them low. 

942
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,100
The interest rates on these debt
was very high, you know, people 

943
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:19,700
are paying 22 percent, 25 
percent interest, which we could

944
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:22,300
when you put that on a quarter 
billion dollars a debt. 

945
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:23,900
That's a lot of interest 
payments. 

946
00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:26,800
And that's interest that has to 
be paid in died. 

947
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,300
In USD. 
See And, you know, external 

948
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:32,700
asset and because people are 
Levering up, you know, they're 

949
00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:36,300
putting money into the market 
today and there's not a whole 

950
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:37,900
lot of guarantee that that 
money's going to be there 

951
00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:40,400
tomorrow. 
And so we've had this massive 

952
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,300
debt unwinding, we're like two 
hundred million dollars worth of

953
00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:48,000
debt has been repaid in the past
two and a half months, enormous 

954
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,100
sums of money, you know, I'm of 
the opinion that literally no 

955
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:54,800
other Market probably like in 
the industry barring, like maybe

956
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,400
major caps would have been able.
To whether that kind of storm. 

957
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,300
Like, you know, if you think 
about the amount of liquidity 

958
00:57:02,300 --> 00:57:06,000
that is required to not only pay
back, 200 million dollars in 

959
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,600
debt, but payback everyone else 
that's trying to leave as that 

960
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,400
deck gets on wound like it, you 
know, it's insane, you know, and

961
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,500
it's really just facilitated by 
the fact that, you know, any 

962
00:57:15,500 --> 00:57:18,300
other situation like this where 
you have third-party Opie's, 

963
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,000
they would have pulled their 
liquidity a long time ago and 

964
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,900
suddenly you have a market that 
has 250 million dollars in debt 

965
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:28,500
and two million dollars in 
liquidity and You know, if you 

966
00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:32,000
go to zero, all of the lenders 
are shit out of luck like, you 

967
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,600
know, and that's the end. 
You know, I think that like this

968
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,200
was a great demonstration of the
fact that like, yes, you know, 

969
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:43,200
we've drawn down and it's been 
painful, you know, we've 

970
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,600
essentially Unwound all of that 
debt, we were able to do. 

971
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,200
So while paying back every 
single lender, you know, so I 

972
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,600
think that proves that this is 
great Market Blended, you know, 

973
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,500
like, you know, keep those 
interest rates low because you 

974
00:57:55,500 --> 00:57:59,500
know, it's a pretty safe place. 
Apparently, if You know, not 

975
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:02,700
only can It Grow very quickly 
and you're just gonna have 

976
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:06,000
people that take profits based 
on that growth, but it can also 

977
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,900
pay back all of this debt in a 
very short period of time. 

978
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,600
I mean, those are the two main 
pieces. 

979
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,700
We also had this migration where
we moved to New, a new contract 

980
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:18,500
set. 
And there's just a lot of 

981
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:22,100
communication like challenges 
going along with that. 

982
00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:25,000
There was the introduction of GM
token, which was like, a whole 

983
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,500
other thing of people, not 
understanding how that works. 

984
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:31,000
And You know, shattered, the 
illusion a little bit which you 

985
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,900
know, I am of the belief that 
like, really the people that 

986
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,300
draw the most, like that dislike
that the most are those that 

987
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:42,600
were kind of coming in with that
short-term mentality because it 

988
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,900
shatters the illusion that this 
is guaranteed, you know, like 

989
00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:51,600
thousand percent apy, you know, 
it says look like this is DeeDee

990
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,400
abstraction of what that 
actually means. 

991
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,100
Which, you know, if you had an 
understanding of the system, you

992
00:58:57,107 --> 00:58:58,400
know, it's nothing new. 
Like okay. 

993
00:58:58,400 --> 00:58:59,900
This makes sense. 
Like, there we go. 

994
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:02,900
I was already Computing this on 
paper anyways, so like now 

995
00:59:02,900 --> 00:59:04,900
you've made it easier for me to 
learn more like see it. 

996
00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:07,000
But, you know, that was a whole 
other component where, you know,

997
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,500
there's a lot of like social 
turmoil with that and 

998
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:12,600
communication issues. 
And then like, you know, it's 

999
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,100
just a distraction that Suddenly
It's like what are we even 

1000
00:59:15,100 --> 00:59:16,800
doing? 
Because we've just spent so long

1001
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,700
like talking about the stupid 
migration that like, you know, 

1002
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:22,100
we've kind of lost the the 
forest for the trees. 

1003
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:24,000
Yeah. 
I mean, I think that like those 

1004
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,900
are the key things that kind of 
came together all at once. 

1005
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:33,700
Yeah, so it sounds like the 
narrative kind of changed or got

1006
00:59:33,700 --> 00:59:38,200
lost when you were not involved.
How do you fix that? 

1007
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,300
Or how do you think about 
rectifying that? 

1008
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:46,000
Because it seems like this free 
money narrative still is like 

1009
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,400
pretty pervasive and in some 
parts of the community. 

1010
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,300
Yeah, I mean so I'm of the 
belief and I'm like I was guilty

1011
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:57,700
of this myself is that, you 
know, we had super strong 

1012
00:59:57,700 --> 01:00:02,300
consensus, you know, from like 
February or February when this 

1013
01:00:02,300 --> 01:00:06,200
was announced to probably August
or September of what this was 

1014
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,300
and what we were trying to do. 
And I think that there was a 

1015
01:00:09,308 --> 01:00:13,500
level of complacency in that 
understanding that, you know, 

1016
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:16,000
people would continue to 
understand that, you know what 

1017
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,100
that ignores is that, you know, 
or the community grew very 

1018
01:00:19,100 --> 01:00:22,300
quickly and You have a lot of 
people that are coming in and 

1019
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:25,600
trying to learn about it. 
And unless you keep that data, 

1020
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,200
you know, messaging and 
understanding very clear and, 

1021
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,700
you know, it gets passed down 
the chain, you know, it's like a

1022
01:00:31,700 --> 01:00:33,900
game of telephone, where, you 
know, you tell one person, they 

1023
01:00:33,900 --> 01:00:36,200
tell another person, you know, 
you need to make sure that the 

1024
01:00:36,207 --> 01:00:40,200
message stays the same, every 
piece of the chain, you know, so

1025
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,500
there's a level of complacency 
that that would continue to 

1026
01:00:42,500 --> 01:00:44,900
occur. 
And, you know, with that, you 

1027
01:00:44,900 --> 01:00:47,200
make less effort to make sure 
that every piece of the chain, 

1028
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,600
it goes, you know, like, you 
know, the message stays the 

1029
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,600
same. 
Name and you end up in a 

1030
01:00:51,607 --> 01:00:55,400
scenario where the, like, you 
know, five people down the the 

1031
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,300
line. 
It's a completely different 

1032
01:00:57,300 --> 01:00:59,600
thing than the first guy. 
Said, you know, you've kind of 

1033
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,100
failed the game of telephone. 
Yeah, I, you know, I think that 

1034
01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:05,300
that's been a wake-up call at 
least to me personally. 

1035
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,900
And I think to a lot of the 
other people that, like, you 

1036
01:01:08,908 --> 01:01:12,200
know, we have a lot of great 
like Community leaders and like 

1037
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:13,600
spokes. 
Yeah. 

1038
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,000
Spokespeople are, you know, 
whatever that are constantly 

1039
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,000
trying to educate on these 
things, you know, I Think it's 

1040
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,200
been a really good wake-up call.
I was like, hey, you know, this 

1041
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,400
is a consistent thing. 
This is not like a one and done,

1042
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,700
you do it and then you're 
finished like, you know, it's a 

1043
01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:29,800
war of attrition, you know, he's
got to keep at it every single 

1044
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,600
day. 
You know, I think like with that

1045
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,600
too, you know, there was this 
like now there's this narrative 

1046
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,900
which you know like that. 
This is a hedge fund and you 

1047
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:42,700
know, that is not been helped by
like, you know Wonderland which 

1048
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:45,000
has now come out and said this 
is what we're trying to do. 

1049
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:49,200
And so that confuses people to 
in that, you know prior, you 

1050
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,000
know, We're pretty much just 
like following in our footsteps.

1051
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,000
And you know. 
Now they've switched it and you 

1052
01:01:54,008 --> 01:01:57,700
know that confuses people. 
Is this still the same thing so 

1053
01:01:57,700 --> 01:02:03,900
no like but yeah, I mean II see 
right now like actively like 

1054
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,600
that level of consensus and 
cohesion is like very rapidly 

1055
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,900
returning. 
Like I'm quite happy about it. 

1056
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,800
You know, I'm getting back out 
there personally, which I hope 

1057
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,700
helps but you know, I don't 
think that like I'm the only 

1058
01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:24,200
person at this at all, you know,
it's definitely a joint effort 

1059
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,200
by a lot of different people 
that are, you know, they have 

1060
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,100
the understanding, they know 
what. 

1061
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,900
Like I'm of the belief that we 
are actively targeting what we 

1062
01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:34,400
always have been, you know, it's
just a matter of communicating 

1063
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,800
that again and you know, doing 
so in a very clear and open 

1064
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:41,300
manner because you know, maybe 
we forgot that, you know, you 

1065
01:02:41,300 --> 01:02:43,400
got to be doing that day in Day 
Out. 

1066
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,100
How do you do that? 
So imagine that I'm like new in 

1067
01:02:49,100 --> 01:02:51,700
the community really excited 
think that this could be 

1068
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:56,300
something really big, and I 
think that it's just like free 

1069
01:02:56,300 --> 01:02:58,900
apy risk-free profit, short 
term. 

1070
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:00,600
I can make a lot of money and 
get rich. 

1071
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,600
What would you say to that? 
How do you fix the narrative? 

1072
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,500
Okay, let's treat this as like 
someone's listening. 

1073
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:10,300
And they want to know, because 
that's probably what this is. 

1074
01:03:10,900 --> 01:03:16,300
I try to never talk about the 
yield except for what it's for, 

1075
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,400
right? 
So, like I personally, and I've 

1076
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,200
said this like many times like 
pretty much since we launched 

1077
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:27,000
like, I think that it's the 
least exciting thing here, you 

1078
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,200
know, II felt that way from the 
start. 

1079
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,700
But you know, there is a level 
like okay, you know, this is 

1080
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:34,600
going to catch eyes and that's a
good thing because, you know, 

1081
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,900
one of the Hardest things to do 
in this industry is just capture

1082
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:41,400
attention, you know, there's so 
much going on every single day 

1083
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,600
that, you know, you know, you 
need some way to draw eyes, but 

1084
01:03:46,700 --> 01:03:49,600
you know, I've always tried to 
stress like, you know, it's for 

1085
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,800
a purpose and the purpose is not
to viewed in that light, you 

1086
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,500
know, some definitely 11 talking
to someone and, you know, going 

1087
01:03:56,500 --> 01:04:00,000
through or either explaining or 
just discussing like, you know, 

1088
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,100
don't talk about that in terms 
of like oh, in one year, it's 

1089
01:04:04,100 --> 01:04:07,800
going to be worth. 
This much, you know, is 

1090
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,600
obviously a much more 
complicated equation than that, 

1091
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,700
and, you know, really like it 
just serves a purpose. 

1092
01:04:13,700 --> 01:04:18,200
Like I view a personally as 
like, the the targeted rate of 

1093
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:19,800
growth of the network of 
anything. 

1094
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,600
So it's not how much it will 
grow its targeting. 

1095
01:04:24,300 --> 01:04:28,100
You know, how much it actually 
does is, you know, determined by

1096
01:04:28,300 --> 01:04:31,200
many factors probably Chief 
among them being execution, 

1097
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,300
which is, you know, always the 
risk in pretty much everything 

1098
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:37,600
is execution. 
Yeah, please, you know, when 

1099
01:04:37,700 --> 01:04:40,400
when talking to people don't 
fixate on that as the the 

1100
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,600
end-all-be-all or purpose of 
this, you know, it's very much 

1101
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,900
not the case, you know, it is a 
means to an end in a tool. 

1102
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:52,800
Nothing more. 
So, this is that's a lot to 

1103
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,300
unpack here. 
So maybe I kind of, I'll try to 

1104
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:59,900
kind of break it down. 
What I'm taking from is in two 

1105
01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:03,000
parts. 
So, the second part is that 

1106
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,300
Olympus Dow has a treasury and 
it manages its own treasury, 

1107
01:05:08,500 --> 01:05:13,600
kind of a lot like other 
protocols like yarn, and then 

1108
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,700
basically there's a year on that
Treasury. 

1109
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:19,800
And I mean, that's kind of, 
that's kind of the the part. 

1110
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,500
That we've seen time and time 
again. 

1111
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,800
In this ecosystem. 
The first part is kind of how 

1112
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,300
Olympus now actually comes to 
hold that money. 

1113
01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:36,700
And I do view that in the very 
least, at least as unorthodox. 

1114
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:41,200
And I mean, this is kind of, 
this is kind of where the punsie

1115
01:05:41,300 --> 01:05:45,900
aspect of it comes in. 
And basically, what people Think

1116
01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:48,300
is a Ponzi. 
Basically, the fact that I mean 

1117
01:05:48,300 --> 01:05:52,300
basically if you look up the 
definition of Ponzi, it's it's a

1118
01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:56,500
form of fraud that pays profits 
to earlier. 

1119
01:05:56,500 --> 01:05:59,700
Investors are people who cash 
out earlier with funds from more

1120
01:05:59,700 --> 01:06:04,400
recent investors and I feel like
Destiny. 

1121
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,000
Does not really the way to deny 
that that is happening here, 

1122
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,100
right? 
First off, just on a on a 

1123
01:06:13,100 --> 01:06:16,800
semantic level. 
I just like that term, you know,

1124
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,500
I think that most people in 
defying and crypto understand 

1125
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:22,600
what people are getting at when 
they use the term. 

1126
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:27,000
But in a more traditional sense,
it is, you know, the importance 

1127
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,900
of that is not so much early 
investors, pay new investors 

1128
01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:33,300
because you can you know, that 
that's where the everything is a

1129
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:36,200
Ponzi argument which I you know,
I don't think it's a great 

1130
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:37,600
argument. 
But you know, that's where that 

1131
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,800
comes from is that you can point
to very very many things. 

1132
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,500
World and say look exact same 
Dynamic. 

1133
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:50,600
The what a what classifies a 
Ponzi is generally that you are 

1134
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,100
lying about what you're doing 
and you know, like bit connect 

1135
01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:58,700
where they said that they had a 
proprietary algorithm to minor 

1136
01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:01,700
trade Bitcoin and we're using 
that to generate the returns, 

1137
01:07:01,700 --> 01:07:05,300
you know, that's not the case at
all, you know, that's active, 

1138
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:07,400
deceit. 
You know, we are very, very open

1139
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,200
about what we're doing. 
Like, I would very much Very 

1140
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,800
strongly argue that that is not 
the case in so I don't like the 

1141
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,400
term just because you know 
people that aren't in the 

1142
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:20,900
industry will look at that term 
and think deceit whereas the 

1143
01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:24,200
reality is that you're pointing 
to a Mech like a mechanical 

1144
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,700
thing and you know, I'm happy to
debate on that. 

1145
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:32,200
But yeah, I just wanted to throw
that out there the second one. 

1146
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:38,800
So I think a really good analog 
here is literally like Bitcoin 

1147
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:40,800
mining or pretty much any proof 
of work Network. 

1148
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:47,400
Right, so to date, I actually 
put posted like a satirical 

1149
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,700
tweet yesterday about this, and 
they went over a whole bunch of 

1150
01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:54,800
people's heads and they were 
firing back with like, oh, this 

1151
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,900
is such a terrible take and I 
was like, yeah, you're right? 

1152
01:07:56,900 --> 01:08:00,400
Like that was the point. 
But, you know, Bitcoin of mix 

1153
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,800
every single day about 40 
million dollars worth of bitcoin

1154
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,200
that is sold on the market to 
pay for mining operations to 

1155
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,300
date. 
It has sold over, you know, 

1156
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:11,900
twenty five billion dollars 
worth The Bitcoin, like, you 

1157
01:08:11,900 --> 01:08:16,200
know, at the value when it was 
emitted, that has been sold by 

1158
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,500
minors to pay for electricity 
and equipment. 

1159
01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:22,300
And all of these things that, 
you know, there's no persistent 

1160
01:08:22,300 --> 01:08:24,600
value, really to the network of 
that. 

1161
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:27,500
You know, it is a expense that 
has to be paid just for 

1162
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:30,300
operations. 
That is how I view mining or 

1163
01:08:30,300 --> 01:08:33,600
bonding, you know, the only 
difference in that relationship 

1164
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,600
is that you know, we have the 
luxury of being on a, theorem a 

1165
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,600
layer 1 so we don't have to pay 
for security. 

1166
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,600
We don't have You know, treat 
that as a pure expense where 

1167
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,600
that money is gone immediately 
and never coming back instead. 

1168
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,700
We can store it. 
You know, that's the only 

1169
01:08:48,700 --> 01:08:51,399
difference is that we can tap 
into it later in the future 

1170
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,800
instead of just, you know, 
burning it essentially. 

1171
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,399
But, you know, like I don't like
that argument. 

1172
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:01,700
Just because like it, you know, 
it insinuates. 

1173
01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:04,700
Like I would just ask like, how 
does Bitcoin work then? 

1174
01:09:04,700 --> 01:09:08,500
How did etherium spend the first
seven years of its life in 

1175
01:09:08,500 --> 01:09:10,800
deeply net negative issue, herb,
pasta? 

1176
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:13,600
Positive issuance where, you 
know, it's constantly being sold

1177
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,100
on the market, you know, and 
like you're not seeing any, 

1178
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,100
there's no treasury there for 
you. 

1179
01:09:19,100 --> 01:09:22,500
Like, you know, how does any 
defy token that has pull two 

1180
01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:25,300
emissions work where you know, 
it's giving out tokens for free 

1181
01:09:25,300 --> 01:09:26,899
in those, get dumped on the 
market, like, you know, that 

1182
01:09:26,899 --> 01:09:30,500
this Dynamic exists. 
So, pervasively everywhere and I

1183
01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:32,899
would argue that Olympus is 
probably one of the best cases 

1184
01:09:32,899 --> 01:09:34,200
of it. 
It's one of the cases where it 

1185
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,899
makes the most sense because 
you're actually storing that for

1186
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:39,399
the future rather than just 
burning the money away. 

1187
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,200
And you see no benefit Beyond. 
Single point in time, you know, 

1188
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:48,500
you spend like, like sushi, 
spent 250 million dollars last 

1189
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:52,300
year on pool to incentives. 
And where is the benefit of that

1190
01:09:52,300 --> 01:09:54,300
today? 
You know, you don't see any 

1191
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:56,800
benefit of it behind the single 
point in time, in which you gave

1192
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,300
the money out. 
Whereas in our case. 

1193
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,000
We have six hundred million 
dollars in Assets. 

1194
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,200
Now like, you know, essentially 
very similar missions where, you

1195
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:11,400
know, we grew our supply by 87%,
they grew their supply by Scent 

1196
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:16,000
and we have 600, plus times more
to show for it today. 

1197
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,800
Then, you know, I don't know II.
Think that it is honestly, one 

1198
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,500
of the least Ponzi Dynamics, 
when you really think about it 

1199
01:10:23,500 --> 01:10:28,100
in that light because, you know,
and every single, especially in 

1200
01:10:28,100 --> 01:10:33,400
like, defy mechanism relies on, 
you know, constant inflow of new

1201
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,200
demand to satisfy these 
incentives that you're pushing 

1202
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:37,400
out for whatever. 
Activity. 

1203
01:10:37,700 --> 01:10:41,600
The last one that I was going to
touch on is just the You the 

1204
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:45,700
early money, peyser, late money,
pays out, new money, dynamic in 

1205
01:10:45,700 --> 01:10:49,100
itself. 
You can argue that at a single 

1206
01:10:49,100 --> 01:10:52,100
point in time, right? 
Of like, oh, like prices are 

1207
01:10:52,100 --> 01:10:55,300
like value appreciates. 
And, you know, to realize that 

1208
01:10:55,300 --> 01:10:59,200
you need new buyers to come into
the market, you know, or that is

1209
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,700
true for if price is not going 
to depreciate, you know, if you 

1210
01:11:02,708 --> 01:11:06,300
want price to be flat, then you 
needed equal new demand for the 

1211
01:11:06,300 --> 01:11:08,800
supply that's coming onto the 
market again. 

1212
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,800
The treasury is facilitating all
this liquidity. 

1213
01:11:10,900 --> 01:11:15,000
Where it will buy back, if 
external parties do not, but 

1214
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,100
then it has reserves as well, 
where the dynamic that you 

1215
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:22,600
actually see is, you know, early
money pays new money, right? 

1216
01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:25,900
So, if someone came in, and they
contribute, they bought bonds, 

1217
01:11:25,900 --> 01:11:29,300
and they contributed money to 
the treasury months ago, and 

1218
01:11:29,300 --> 01:11:31,900
then they left. 
And now the, the value of the 

1219
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:35,400
network is greater and the 
treasury has to be tapped in 

1220
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,200
either with the liquidity or the
reserves. 

1221
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,500
You're having the early money, 
pay the new money. 

1222
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,000
Now you flip the dynamic on its 
head. 

1223
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,500
It's actually the opposite. 
We're like, I think that alone 

1224
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:51,400
is like, okay, like You know, I 
just see this argument so much 

1225
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,100
and I really don't think that a 
whole tub. 

1226
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,000
Yeah, I would, I would totally 
give you that. 

1227
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,500
I mean, what are you doing? 
Is transparent. 

1228
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:07,900
I mean, it's not it's not a 
fraud and basically I think I 

1229
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:11,200
truly believe that I mean no 
one's forced to go into this, 

1230
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,300
right. 
So, I mean it's not it's not 

1231
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:17,600
like you're defrauding investors
or anything at least in my view.

1232
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:26,000
But yeah, so basically, I think 
the term funds he is Yeah II do.

1233
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:32,900
Get your point that yeah. 
It there is a different 

1234
01:12:32,900 --> 01:12:37,300
connotation to it in this 
ecosystem than in most other 

1235
01:12:37,300 --> 01:12:39,200
settings. 
People are deep. 

1236
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:43,200
I think using endearingly, which
is like, you know, it's all 

1237
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,200
dangerous. 
Yeah, and we're kind of, we're 

1238
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,000
running long, so I would love to
keep going, but we kind of, we 

1239
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,400
need to wrap so so so, what are 
you? 

1240
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,900
Goals, for Olympus this year. 
A couple thing. 

1241
01:13:01,100 --> 01:13:05,000
I'll throw some, some more like 
intangibles and then some 

1242
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,800
specifics, you know, so one of 
the things that we're targeting 

1243
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,800
is greater and greater like 
liquidity influence within the, 

1244
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,500
the defying crypto ecosystem, 
you know, so one of the most 

1245
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:18,300
important components of a 
currency is that it is, you 

1246
01:13:18,300 --> 01:13:21,600
know, the most, if not, one of 
the most liquid assets that you 

1247
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:26,200
can find, you know, so we're 
aggressively are targeting 

1248
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:28,800
building up our liquidity. 
The influence not only in our 

1249
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,100
own or in our own pools, but you
know, capturing new projects, 

1250
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:36,500
having a against us, you know, 
partnering with existing 

1251
01:13:36,500 --> 01:13:38,600
projects and having them move 
their liquidity with us. 

1252
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,500
There's actually a new exchange 
that will I don't have a date to

1253
01:13:45,500 --> 01:13:49,900
give but it's going to take like
a pretty proactive stance on 

1254
01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:52,700
helping us facilitate that 
because there's a lot of upside.

1255
01:13:52,700 --> 01:13:57,000
I would consider for an exchange
in, you know, partnering us with

1256
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,200
us in Endeavor, you know, 
there's very few projects and 

1257
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:04,100
entities that have any interest 
in like actively growing decks 

1258
01:14:04,100 --> 01:14:08,500
liquidity. 
Besides another one is, you 

1259
01:14:08,500 --> 01:14:12,100
know, I think that we're 
probably going to start act or 

1260
01:14:12,100 --> 01:14:18,200
actively like utilizing the 
treasury or for like what I see 

1261
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:22,000
the treasury as being able to 
provide, besides those like 

1262
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,000
real, like tail risk Bank Run 
scenarios is that we can use it 

1263
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,000
to influence in central. 
Of structures in the market in 

1264
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,800
artificial ways that might be 
beneficial to the market. 

1265
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,900
So, you know, essentially you 
can have the protocol take 

1266
01:14:34,900 --> 01:14:38,400
positions that, you know, you 
don't want it to be this massive

1267
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,700
loss losing particular position,
but it's something that a, 

1268
01:14:41,700 --> 01:14:45,500
rational actor in the market 
probably wouldn't do, you know, 

1269
01:14:45,500 --> 01:14:49,500
the best case in are the best 
like examples of this are just 

1270
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:52,400
when you have opportunity cost. 
So, you know, some some 

1271
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,200
opportunity that, you know, 
still makes the treasury money, 

1272
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,500
but you could have taken that 
money, put it somewhere. 

1273
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:03,900
All this and more but you know 
in manners that like I'm working

1274
01:15:03,900 --> 01:15:07,500
on this, like call strategy kind
of thing where you know, the 

1275
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:11,800
protocol can offer offer options
in a manner that would be very 

1276
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,500
hard to incentivize third 
parties to do on. 

1277
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,300
But there are intangible 
benefits to the the protocol and

1278
01:15:17,300 --> 01:15:19,900
allowing it to you know, provide
additional liquidity with lower 

1279
01:15:19,900 --> 01:15:25,400
cost and you know, provide new 
forms of exposure that you know,

1280
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,000
are kind of unique to our 
Market. 

1281
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:32,400
Yeah, I think like another one 
is, just so we have this new 

1282
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,700
Bond infrastructure. 
And with it, we can do this 

1283
01:15:35,700 --> 01:15:38,000
like, you know, or going to see 
if we do this. 

1284
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,800
I haven't like proposed yet. 
But what I think I mentioned it 

1285
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,300
before, like, net, a net 
structure on bonds. 

1286
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,000
So, rather than having it one 
way where you have, you know, 

1287
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,200
only the protocol taking assets 
into the treasury and not the 

1288
01:15:50,208 --> 01:15:52,600
other way around, you know, 
switching into a net base 

1289
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:57,800
system, where, you know every 
single day it is buying Million 

1290
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,600
dollars worth of home and 
selling 11 million dollars worth

1291
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,500
of them. 
Instead of just selling one or 

1292
01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:03,900
11 million dollars worth of 
over. 

1293
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,800
Sorry, what, you know with that 
you are going to generate new 

1294
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:09,500
activity and volume in the 
market. 

1295
01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:12,100
You're going to provide 
additional liquidity where, you 

1296
01:16:12,108 --> 01:16:14,800
know, let's say that that is a 
day where there's more Supply in

1297
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,200
the market, you know, maybe it 
ends up actually, you know, 

1298
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,600
buying back 13 million and 
selling 8 essentially like it 

1299
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,900
creates a wider band, my 
expectation, at least of 

1300
01:16:25,900 --> 01:16:29,200
liquidity that allows Utility 
decompressed and, you know, 

1301
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:34,100
single point in time like supply
and demand to to sort itself out

1302
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:36,300
better. 
You know, it's I view it in the 

1303
01:16:36,308 --> 01:16:40,000
very in a very similar Dynamic 
to what I was like, the, the 

1304
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,700
water analogy with the staking 
rewards where you're like, 

1305
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:47,700
diluting that dilution away 
similar, but with, you know, 

1306
01:16:47,700 --> 01:16:51,000
supply and demand in the market,
there's this big Focus, you 

1307
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:55,800
know, that I've been trying to 
push on the economy of Olympus. 

1308
01:16:56,300 --> 01:17:02,200
I call it the economy. 
With an H between the OEM but, 

1309
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,000
you know, essentially like, you 
know, foreign currency to be 

1310
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,700
successful. 
It needs an economy around it. 

1311
01:17:06,700 --> 01:17:10,100
You know, I would like yeah, you
know, you need to have D 

1312
01:17:10,100 --> 01:17:12,400
correlated, find an error, you 
need to have D correlated 

1313
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:16,300
activity happening on top of you
that has nothing to do with the 

1314
01:17:16,300 --> 01:17:18,100
currency itself. 
You know, it's just people 

1315
01:17:18,100 --> 01:17:22,100
transacting or trading or, you 
know, whatever, you know, so 

1316
01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:24,400
there's this massive push within
the doubt that, you know, 

1317
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,700
there's like an incubator 
program and grants and like, 

1318
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:29,700
really heavy. 
He Outreach to, you know, build 

1319
01:17:29,700 --> 01:17:33,400
up our economy around us. 
I would say, that's probably the

1320
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:35,800
single biggest one and that 
aligns with like the liquidity 

1321
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:37,100
piece. 
Really. 

1322
01:17:37,100 --> 01:17:38,800
We're just trying to, we're 
trying to spread our wings 

1323
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:43,000
within the industry. 
Cool, that's that's a lot of 

1324
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,000
plans. 
So where can people go to find 

1325
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,100
out more about you and Olympus 
Tao. 

1326
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:53,600
Yeah, so you can go online. 
Olympus Del dot Finance. 

1327
01:17:54,100 --> 01:17:58,100
The Twitter account is at 
Olympus Del, or there's a link 

1328
01:17:58,100 --> 01:18:01,400
on both to the Discord. 
That's like the main hub for, 

1329
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,100
you know, Community activity. 
And, you know, if you have 

1330
01:18:03,100 --> 01:18:04,800
questions, if you want to meet 
people that are in the 

1331
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,300
community, I would advise that 
that's probably the place to go.

1332
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,700
I believe there's an unofficial 
telegram group so I won't give 

1333
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,100
any out for that, but it does 
exist. 

1334
01:18:14,100 --> 01:18:15,200
I kind of want to take that 
back. 

1335
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,300
Now. 
Please make sure that you're on 

1336
01:18:16,308 --> 01:18:19,100
the right one. 
I'm also on that note, just 

1337
01:18:19,300 --> 01:18:22,900
Throw out like, please, please. 
Please never interact with 

1338
01:18:22,900 --> 01:18:27,900
people that dmu first on 
Discord, or Twitter or telegram 

1339
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:29,900
or any of these things, 
especially if they saying that 

1340
01:18:29,900 --> 01:18:32,200
they're a team member that 
there's support, any of these 

1341
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,100
things is, doesn't this is not 
Olympus specific. 

1342
01:18:34,100 --> 01:18:36,000
It's anything in defy. 
They are trying to scam. 

1343
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:37,000
You. 
They will take your money. 

1344
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,500
Do not click links. 
You're not download and open 

1345
01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:42,200
files, please. 
Like the number of people that 

1346
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,100
have reached out to me and said,
like I made one dumb mistake. 

1347
01:18:46,100 --> 01:18:49,100
I opened a link and my Madam 
asked God. 

1348
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:50,500
Exploited and now I have no 
money. 

1349
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:52,100
Like it. 
It breaks my heart every single 

1350
01:18:52,100 --> 01:18:54,400
time. 
Like please be careful, the Dark

1351
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:56,300
Forest out there. 
There's a lot of people looking 

1352
01:18:56,300 --> 01:18:59,900
to take advantage of you and you
know, you gotta no one is going 

1353
01:18:59,900 --> 01:19:03,400
to look out for you except for 
yourself, but at Olympus doubt 

1354
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,300
on pretty much everything. 
Thank you, Zeus. 

1355
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,700
That was a good last words. 
Thank you so much for coming on.

1356
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:14,500
Thank you. 
Thank you for joining us on this

1357
01:19:14,500 --> 01:19:16,900
week's episode. 
We release new episodes every 

1358
01:19:16,900 --> 01:19:19,000
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1359
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,700
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1360
01:19:22,708 --> 01:19:25,100
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And if you have a Google home or

1361
01:19:25,100 --> 01:19:27,900
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1362
01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:30,900
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1363
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:33,300
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1364
01:19:33,300 --> 01:19:35,100
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1365
01:19:35,100 --> 01:19:37,600
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1366
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,800
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1367
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:43,800
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1368
01:19:44,100 --> 01:19:46,600
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1369
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:48,300
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1370
01:19:49,100 --> 01:19:51,800
Well, thanks so much and we look
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