1 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:04,500 This is epicenter episode 404 with guest Chris better forum. 2 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,600 Welcome to epicenter the podcast way. 3 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:24,000 Where we interview crypto Founders, Builders and thought 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,300 leaders. I'm Federica ants. 5 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:27,700 And I'm here with Sonny Agrabah today. 6 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,900 We're speaking with Chris butter, for all who is the 7 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:35,400 founder of badger Dow bat, it out brings Bitcoin to D5 in all 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,000 sorts of ways. We are talked about this with 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,600 Chris in a little bit, but first let Tell you about our sponsor 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,800 this week X is the great but they're vulnerable to a lot of 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,700 problem like Mev and Mev is not fun. 12 00:00:51,300 --> 00:00:54,200 And you also get a lot sort of failed, transactions, high, gas 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,400 cost. So there's a cool protocol 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,900 called cow swamp. Witch cackles. 15 00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:00,700 A lot of these issues head-on and offers a new type of trading 16 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:04,099 experience the built by the gnosis team. 17 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:06,900 It's basically a meta decks aggregator. 18 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:11,100 And so what that means is, it actually aggregate over other 19 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:14,000 aggregators. So, you know, now if it's too 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,700 much work about thinking of whether you know, what do I go 21 00:01:16,700 --> 00:01:19,500 to 1 inch, or do I go to Paris walk or going to Macho? 22 00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:22,900 Well, cows walk is able to aggregate over a multiple of 23 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:27,000 these aggregators itself, obviously and the Rica is here. 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,600 And you know, what is it go? So the video will tell us what's 25 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,400 new about Cal Swap this, you know, recently? 26 00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:35,500 Yeah. So basically we had 200 million 27 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:39,500 trading volume this week and have more than 7,000 is think 28 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:44,900 Traders at this point in time. That is also a public discussion 29 00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:49,700 going on around the launch of a new token for noses particle. 30 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:53,000 So basically to the noses Forum, if you want to partake in that 31 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:56,200 there was a Discord lava launch for a cow swap. 32 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,400 So it's and I promise it's not just memes. 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,300 Actually people talk about any be in stuff for real and there 34 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:08,600 are public testing sessions of new features on Discord, and if 35 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,900 you join, you'll get a pope. You do. 36 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:14,500 I get a pull up for every trade? I do or do one pull-up word? 37 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,500 You only if you if you go if you join the puppy tests and testing 38 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:21,400 session on this book, so you don't you don't get it for 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,400 trading for trading, just get the best prices. 40 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:25,800 I see. I feel like I should earn an FTE 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,900 for every single trade I do. And it's like, so I can bring 42 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:31,800 more realized everything. I wanted and of key for every 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,600 transaction I ever make on a theory. 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,800 Oh, but I'd like to see. I think basically if the token 45 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,200 goes through you'll probably get a token. 46 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,800 So I think that that would be that not quite an mft. 47 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,900 But you know, that may be good enough good. 48 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:50,900 So let's go back to Majid. Ow. 49 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:55,900 So Chris tell us a bit about yourself and what brought you to 50 00:02:55,900 --> 00:03:00,400 this space and what what moved you to actually start Badger Dow 51 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,600 and, you know, try to bring Bitcoin to defy. 52 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,800 Sure. Hey guys. 53 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,500 Thanks for having me. So my story and I've been in 54 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:15,900 this space, quite a few years, almost your 2020, almost nine 55 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:18,700 years. Actually, when I purchased my 56 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:23,400 first Bitcoin, I was actually in New York at the time and my 57 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,300 office, just so happen to be right below the Bitcoin Center 58 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,400 and a friend from college was, okay. 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,900 We got to go check out this new thing Bitcoin and and they were 60 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:35,300 doing live off. Students with the gentleman with 61 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:39,200 the Bowtie in an Excel spreadsheet on the wall behind 62 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:42,200 and everyone brought their, you know, rigged up Miners and stuff 63 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,600 was pretty funny. What's this the Bitcoin sent on 64 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,600 Wall Street, there was okay. Yeah. 65 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,300 I remember that long time ago. And you know, that's really just 66 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:56,400 piqued my interest, but I've always been a believer in, you 67 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,000 know, just people owning their life and taking control for, you 68 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,100 know, how they live their life, and why, rather than taking 69 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:08,200 societal societal standards and making those just how you live 70 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,200 your life, because that's how you're supposed to live your 71 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:10,500 life. Right? 72 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:14,700 So I've always just believed in people taking Freedom that way 73 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:17,100 and owning their freedom. So that's what, obviously, 74 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:20,100 attracted me to bitcoin. And then over the years, I 75 00:04:20,100 --> 00:04:23,900 continued to You know, invest in and be part of Bitcoin talk for 76 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:25,500 them and things along those lines. 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,900 And then, you know, being from Toronto, when a theorem launched 78 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,600 that was kind of, when a lot of light bulbs from going off of my 79 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,300 mind and I started seeing the potential for what was going to 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,400 what was going to come. And that's where I decided to 81 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,100 stop doing what I was doing, which was primarily in 82 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,700 e-commerce and digital marketing and sales and things along those 83 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:50,300 lines and invest my time, full-time in crypto and I 84 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:52,900 started Typing a few projects with those specific things 85 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:54,100 right? Digital marketing. 86 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:58,200 So forth continue to invest in different projects and then you 87 00:04:58,207 --> 00:05:00,800 know as the years went on got involved in a variety of 88 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,800 different things. Help doing some crypto community 89 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,900 events like pump to San Francisco blockchain week in 90 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:11,800 2018. With with the Nora screwing in a 91 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:17,400 few folks and and and primarily just was a consultant for 92 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,700 different crypto projects until the Will class close to end of 93 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:26,300 2019. And that's that's where for me. 94 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:30,200 It was. You know, I wanted to have a 95 00:05:30,207 --> 00:05:33,400 bigger impact on the space that I grew to love and have an 96 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,900 impact that lasts a really long time and I wanted to be a 97 00:05:36,900 --> 00:05:39,500 builder, right? That's really what I wanted to 98 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:43,000 do. And I believed in the power of 99 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,800 Bitcoin and Bitcoin being used in financial applications and 100 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,900 being accelerated by Block chains, like the theorem 101 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,000 obviously, and potentially a variety of others, but that's 102 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,000 where the journey started. And, you know, going back to the 103 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,700 idea of freedom. I also have never been a big fan 104 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:06,100 of centralized corporations and just hierarchical decisions and 105 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:10,300 you know all the lack of transparency on a day to day and 106 00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:13,200 you know, you start combining those things and and the 107 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,200 acceleration of decentralized organizations and in the 108 00:06:17,207 --> 00:06:22,200 beginning of 2020 and actually seeing real In real assets 109 00:06:22,900 --> 00:06:27,000 inside of these decentralized orgs, that's where, you know, 110 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,400 this is called the star starting line in my head and decided to 111 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,800 push forward with creating decentralized organization. 112 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,100 That was really had one core focus. 113 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:38,500 And that was to build the infrastructure to bring Bitcoin 114 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:44,000 to the centralized Finance. So, how did the team meet of us 115 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,900 their core team? And how did you, how did you get 116 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:51,200 more people put in to decentralize it? 117 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,000 It's pretty wild. I still can't believe I let some 118 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,100 of this stuff came together, but it was me and two other folks, 119 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:04,700 one leads to Lilly developer and one the front end and ux and I 120 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:07,000 pretty much handled, you know, the business development, the 121 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,600 marketing token structure, things along those lines, and we 122 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,700 brought it to Market, December 3rd. 123 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:17,000 And the way that we brought it to Market, we didn't raise any 124 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,600 money. We sell funded it and we wanted 125 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,400 to launch with the product that people wanted to use. 126 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:24,700 So are you know, we launched with our first product, which 127 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:27,500 are set vaults where people can deposit tokenize Bitcoin and 128 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:30,500 earn interest on it and it on custodial way. 129 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,200 And it was through that leading up to that launch. 130 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,700 We launched our Discord and September, and we had a program 131 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:40,300 that we called the early contributor program, right? 132 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:42,500 So, you know, we came up with a bunch of wild stuff, and we 133 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:44,100 essentially took all those ideas. 134 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,400 From like the token break down to how the products are going to 135 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,000 work to everything and we just spewed it on this Discord and 136 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,400 all these different channels. And people just started joining 137 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:57,300 people started joining through Word of Mouth people started 138 00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:00,400 joining just through other protocols sharing that, they're 139 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,800 excited about our launch upcoming launch and and then 140 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,200 they're really contributed program. 141 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Was that kind of incentive where people with the line values 142 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:12,700 wanted to help want to help figure some of these things out. 143 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:15,900 And that's exactly what They did right months in advance. 144 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:19,800 I called Day Zero type stuff. There was over 100 people that 145 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,100 were rewarded as part of their early contributor program and 146 00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:26,100 and these people just not knowing the badger would be 147 00:08:26,100 --> 00:08:28,800 anything. Just wanted to help from 148 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,299 everything from design to development to economic economic 149 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,600 decisions from the token structure and liquidity mining 150 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,000 program and a variety of things. And and then that just started 151 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,100 snowballing. And from that. 152 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:47,200 Point on every day. We have new contributors. 153 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,600 I wanted to help and some people that help the bed and then kind 154 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,600 of left and then some people that helped the bid and then 155 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,200 helped a lot and then stuck around. 156 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,800 And now there's almost 20 people that work full-time every day on 157 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,200 the badger protocol and a community of, you know, 15,000 158 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,000 people that are avidly. Excited about what's coming next 159 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,900 and adding value and helping and, and just being a part of 160 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:13,600 it, right? And it's been just interesting 161 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,200 for us because Because you know, there's no bank accounts. 162 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,600 There's no legal entities or is none of these things. 163 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,500 So you have to check certain types of people and it's not 164 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:24,600 like, you know, we can put a job post out and say hey come on 165 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:28,000 join and that really we've never done that. 166 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,100 We've never done a job posting. You never done anything like 167 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,200 that. It's just all been people from 168 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,900 the community getting involved and just having a gun that 169 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,100 that's shared vision for what could be if we were able to 170 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:43,600 actually accomplish this thing. As someone who's been in this 171 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,100 ecosystem, a long time and whose background is in business 172 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:50,300 development and marketing. And so on what I mean? 173 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,400 What we actually see is that there are these communities that 174 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,600 are basically their Grassroots, and they kind of they emerge, 175 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,600 and they are self-sustaining and so on. 176 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,900 And, and then they are communities that never really 177 00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:04,300 take off, right? So, basically their communities 178 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:09,500 where there's lots of push and money, and everything behind it, 179 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:14,300 but still for some Reason, they failure to actually Garner that 180 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:18,100 critical mass and in a way, they're Dead on Arrival. 181 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,700 What do you attribute that to? I mean basically battered. 182 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:26,100 I was super successful and in how it took up a from from 183 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:31,000 nothing and how Dynamic and big the community is what do you 184 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,700 think are the contributing factors? 185 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:38,300 Well, there are a few I think the main one is having shared 186 00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:41,800 values and shared value and belief system like everyone in 187 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:47,800 our community believes that Bitcoin is going to be. 188 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:51,100 And when I use the term Bitcoin, I don't necessarily just mean 189 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,900 Native pick one on the Bitcoin Network. 190 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:55,000 I mean, tokenized Bitcoin rapid corn. 191 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,400 Really a representation of Bitcoin is going to be a 192 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,700 Paramount, a critical asset to decentralize. 193 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,600 Infrastructure and the future of decentralized Finance. 194 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,800 Really? What we're all building and and 195 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:13,400 that shared belief in Bitcoin. As that leading horse, is really 196 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,600 what brings everyone together? And I think another key piece is 197 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,500 how you identify the right, people to even kick start that 198 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:26,400 Community, right? So for us, what we did is part 199 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,400 of our launches, we looked at 32,000 wallets for two years 200 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,700 prior to our launch. Identified 19 different actions 201 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,700 things that that we believe, you know, aligned with our values. 202 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:44,500 So for example, anyone that participated in unchain voting 203 00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:48,700 with urine or sushi, or even option through, snapshot your 204 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:53,800 own Sushi Harvest, one Hive things along those lines or 205 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,300 people that use tokenize, Bitcoin on other compound or 206 00:11:57,300 --> 00:12:02,200 provide liquidity on balancer or sushi, or, you know, swap, or 207 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,100 whatever it may be. Be and and the, you know, it was 208 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:11,300 those types of actions that really aligned the people that 209 00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:13,800 we believe would be the right community members to really take 210 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,600 this and Lead it. And and, and those are the types 211 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,400 of things that we identified early. 212 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,200 And when we identified those, we also built a product that we 213 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,600 felt those same people would want to use, they won. 214 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,600 And then by saying, hey, you share in our values, you're 215 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,000 there. From day one. 216 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,100 It's not like you're coming day 40 after, you know, Venture 217 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:40,700 capitalists and a bunch of bunch of different groups, kind of 218 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,200 facilitated a certain start know, you're you're there from 219 00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:49,000 day Zero, the ups and the downs. And you now have a product that 220 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,500 you've been looking to use. We thought at least people would 221 00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:54,400 want to use something like this, and turned out, they did. 222 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,200 And then, by the way, you have the ability to decide all the 223 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,900 factors and the direction of said app and whatever. 224 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,600 You know, the protocol ends up becoming in the value that it 225 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,100 ends up incurring. So, you know, those were those 226 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:13,600 are some of the critical things that that we did early on that. 227 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,100 I think most aligned our community and made them really a 228 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:21,100 strong force. And and I think as well, another 229 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:24,100 big thing was, you know, when you look at those actions, like, 230 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:26,700 another key action that we looked at, was anyone that 231 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,800 donated to get coin for the first seven rounds at the time? 232 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,000 And we were the first ones to Drop two people that 233 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,400 participated in get coin and work with the team to help that 234 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,100 help gather that information. But also we carved off 2% of our 235 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,500 supply to get coin right from like right from the beginning. 236 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,200 And this is something that was decided as part of the early 237 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,600 contributors. And again, these are the types 238 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,300 of things that those actions align certain types of 239 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:56,500 individuals. And with those types of 240 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:59,100 individuals, if you actually want to build something, that's 241 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:01,700 LED and run by a community, you better hope that you have some 242 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,200 really good community members. As with this the right skill set 243 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,100 and mindset to take this route needs to go because it's not 244 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:10,700 about you know me or the other few people that started it all 245 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:14,500 becomes about the people that lead it moving forward to which 246 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,600 like I'm just, you know, I consider myself just another 247 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,500 contributor to the organization. So, you know, you mentioned that 248 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:27,500 like sort of The Guiding flag right now. 249 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:31,900 A lot of the Patcher Community is this no Bitcoin on defy. 250 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,600 What is it? About like, Bitcoin and divide 251 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,700 together, that leg excites you so much. 252 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,700 Well, you know Bitcoin in my opinion, I get some flat for but 253 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:48,600 I feel like it's the best money ever invented and it also in 254 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,000 just from a pure, you know, facts perspective, right? 255 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,200 It represents 50% of the entire crypto currency market cap, the 256 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:01,100 highest number of wallet addresses in the world, and 257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,600 obviously, you know, the the amount of years that it has 258 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,200 behind it since launch and, you know, organic growth and things 259 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,400 along those lines that In my opinion, it becomes that asset 260 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:17,000 that everyone wants to use when they want to use a financial 261 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,500 application. And you know, the proof was 262 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,800 really in the pudding in the last year and a half, right? 263 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,500 I think in the beginning of 2020, there was a thousand 264 00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:29,400 Bitcoins that were bridged to other chains. 265 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,000 I think now there's a 290,000 or little more than one percent of 266 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,000 the entire Bitcoin Supply. That's that's been bridge to 267 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,700 other change. And tokenizer wrapped and some 268 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:44,000 form or fashion. And if you look at like what's 269 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,100 happened during that time, you know, it's been the explosion of 270 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,500 defied apps and it's really those apps and the ability to 271 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:55,300 earn on it, land it or against it, a variety of things while 272 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:59,700 still being able to control your assets and see exactly what's 273 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:02,600 happening with your Bitcoin almost to the second that it 274 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,900 makes it that attractive. And if you were wind and look 275 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:10,700 at, you know, some of the use cases for Bitcoin, Admittedly 276 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,800 there hasn't been much over the years. 277 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,300 You know, one of the things I picked up quite a bit was 278 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,100 centralized lenders. I think you know Genesis trading 279 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:23,700 just came out with their to to report and the numbers are just 280 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:27,200 staggering like billions and billions and billions of dollars 281 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,300 worth of lending and borrowing with Bitcoin being the primary 282 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:34,400 asset is being used for these types of things and not pointing 283 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,200 at Genesis for anyone but just in general, you know, you give 284 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,700 up control of your assets. It's and you don't have the 285 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,800 ability to see what's actually happening with your Bitcoin. 286 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:47,900 And that's a big, big, big, big, big problem. 287 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:52,300 And it goes directly against the whole ethos of Bitcoin. 288 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:55,500 And I don't think that's going to be able to last for that long 289 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,700 before. The people want to be able to 290 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:02,200 have that level of control and have that transparency. 291 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,300 I think our hurdle that you know bitcoiners is they call them are 292 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:09,500 going to have to get over is like how is that enabled? 293 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:12,300 And that is not on the Bitcoin Network. 294 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,200 I'm not saying that it will never be on the Bitcoin network. 295 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,700 But I think the Bitcoin Network in general it's going to take 296 00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:22,099 much longer and I don't think it's ever going to capture the 297 00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:25,200 type of market, share that something like etherium has been 298 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,599 able to capture will capture move them forward. 299 00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:31,400 So that you know, that's that's why I think Bitcoin is going to 300 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,200 be one of the biggest assets and most used assets and all of defy 301 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:38,800 obviously a theorem and obviously stable coins are up in 302 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,400 that up in that bucket. Bucket as well. 303 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,000 Yeah, I mean II mean I completely agree with you and 304 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:49,300 someone a couple weeks ago described me as the most Bitcoin 305 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:52,600 Maxi shit Corner they know which is like I'll take that as a 306 00:17:52,608 --> 00:17:54,800 compliment. Yeah, I'd have to agree with you 307 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,400 that like, you know, I think I am also you know, I think 308 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,900 Bitcoin is probably the best asset that exist in all of 309 00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,700 crypto right now. And you know, so there's a you 310 00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:06,000 know, there's also like what I like to say is thank everyone in 311 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,000 crypto is a Bitcoin of right and I bet it'll be very hard to find 312 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,800 anyone who He's not like, you know, doesn't have Bitcoin, but 313 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,100 is Badger sort of who's the target audience right now? 314 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:21,300 Is it? These people who are already in 315 00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:25,200 to defy and I like, you know, you know, I already did defy 316 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,200 with my ease and u.s. DC and it's like, oh but I also 317 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,400 have, you know, a third to half of my portfolio and Bitcoin. 318 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,200 Let me bring that and use ND Phi as well, or are you actually 319 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,600 going to like, you know, this larger Bitcoin Community? 320 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,800 That's outside of defy right now and To bring them into the 321 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,000 valley. Well, it's the former right now, 322 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,500 right? So right now, the majority of 323 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:53,400 people that use our applications and products are those that are 324 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,600 already comfortable with tokenize or rap versions of 325 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,700 Bitcoin already comfortable using applications on a theorem, 326 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:04,500 and are already comfortable participating in decentralized 327 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,700 finance. That's where our main target 328 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,800 audience has been in the last three months. 329 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,100 We've worked hard to try and bring more Bitcoin into The 330 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,900 Entity file essentially and I feel like we've done a decent 331 00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:20,300 job. We launched our Bridge product 332 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:25,000 in partnership with Ren VM that allows anyone to take Bitcoin 333 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,900 and deposit it right into our V to earn interest. 334 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,900 And we've had over 245 million dollars worth of native Bitcoin, 335 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,300 that's gone through our Bridge during that time. 336 00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:37,700 So I'm pretty proud of being able to accomplish that but for 337 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,400 the most part Sunday right now it's about soup, you know, this 338 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,700 column power defy users and you know wanted To get the best 339 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,000 return on their Bitcoin. And in the most trusted way 340 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,500 because we know how notoriously untrustworthy certain 341 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:57,500 applications and new launches and things like that are 342 00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,400 happening at this point in the market. 343 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,600 So, you know, having a place where they can trust and and 344 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,700 then of course get the best return but to speak to like 345 00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:09,500 where we want to go which is this idea of anyone that is 346 00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,200 thinking about holding Bitcoin or holds native Bitcoin and 347 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 wants to do more with it. And literally in a couple Clicks 348 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,300 in 10 seconds, they're able to earn on it. 349 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:22,800 That's where we want to go. And we believe that, you know, 350 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:28,600 this Maxi crowd is just a small small small, you know, bucket in 351 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,300 the entire pool and you know, the pool is not going to care as 352 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:35,800 much about over actually, bridging that Bitcoin to a 353 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,900 theory, right? They're not going to care about 354 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,100 that. The fact that they still have a 355 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:42,600 built-in, the total control around their assets in sand and 356 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,500 full transparency. I think is What they're going to 357 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,200 want and with us and some are the same as isomer different, 358 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,400 but then to then have a say in the app that you use every day. 359 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,500 It's like me going up to Robin Hood and being like, hey, your 360 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,000 Feast suck. I'm gonna call 10 other friends 361 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,600 on Robin hooding, and we're going to put a proposal together 362 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,300 to change the fees like that would never happen. 363 00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:10,200 So I think that is how the mass markets going to start, you 364 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,200 know, consuming us and in a variety of other protocols. 365 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:17,800 But really with our push towards, you know, product that 366 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,900 we launched I think about four months ago called or two months 367 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,000 ago called interest-bearing Bitcoin. 368 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,200 We hope for that to be the quickest and easiest way for 369 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,900 anyone to start earning interest on their Bitcoin, simply by just 370 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:33,900 by swapping Bitcoin for it. And then, in any time they can 371 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:36,600 redeem for more underlying Bitcoin, you know, anywhere 372 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,600 between 4 and 5% API and all done completely by smart 373 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,100 contracts, not by any type of, you know, Lending and borrowing 374 00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:48,900 and OTC dashboard or anything like that. 375 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:53,800 So let's uh, get into some of the products. 376 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,800 Like so, you know, the badger Dow is this community that's 377 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,200 building sort of a set of different products before we 378 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,000 start to Deep dive into any specific one. 379 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,200 That's just like, get up, give a layout of what are the products. 380 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,700 So, so far, you know, and I know you there's like to dislike the 381 00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:13,600 big product and then there's the set product and then I you just 382 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,700 mentioned the Bitcoin, the the badger Bridge are there any 383 00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:20,100 other main like product verticals? 384 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,000 Are those are the three main ones? 385 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:27,900 Yeah, we actually have four. So, you know, the foundation of 386 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:32,300 badgers really, what we call our CV, and this is, you know, smart 387 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:36,200 contracts, that optimize yield for users often called, yoga 388 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,700 yield aggregators, but Focus exclusively on tokenized 389 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,600 bitcoin. We then have our Bitcoin Bridge, 390 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,100 which enables anyone to bring Bitcoin and start learning on 391 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:46,400 it. Immediately we have 392 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,100 interest-bearing Bitcoin which is back 12-1 by any interest 393 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,000 bearing V positions in our set bolts. 394 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,000 And then finally, we have dig, which is a root, the first 395 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,100 rebasing Bitcoin that was, that was brought to Market inspired 396 00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:03,700 by ampleforth. So which one do you think we 397 00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:06,800 should start with? I think the set V make the most 398 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,500 sense again, they're under the, there's a nuclear says I call 399 00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,700 them there by far, you know, our core product. 400 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:14,300 Yeah. Pet. 401 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:18,600 Can you maybe just give us an overview of what the the set 402 00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:22,000 does? We have a bunch of different V 403 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,800 about 15 different V, and users can choose which Volta deposit 404 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,000 into each of all has a different strategy for how it generates 405 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,200 yield. And in most instances, each 406 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,400 Vault has a different asset that's accepted in that vault. 407 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,500 As an example. You might bring WBT seat or W BT 408 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,500 CE V that we built in partnership with urine and that 409 00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,900 has you know, a set of strategies that it runs to 410 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:55,300 optimize the That users get you might bring TBT see by the keep 411 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,600 team and the curve LP token associated with that. 412 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:02,200 And the posit that into our vaults and earn, you know, 413 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,100 specific return. I think it's 15 or 16 percent. 414 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:09,400 While at the same time, running unique strategy, different from 415 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,100 the WBT c v for example, and then the list really, really 416 00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:14,500 goes on. There's a whole bunch of there's 417 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:17,500 different LP positions like WBT, see eat pears. 418 00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,400 There's obviously Badger you can deposit. 419 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:22,700 It did you can deposit interest bearing Bitcoin. 420 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,200 You can deposit all the different flavors of Bitcoin. 421 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,200 Spt CPT BT, C. OB T CW, B. 422 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,000 TC R, NPC, just just a whole slew of different ways to earn 423 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,100 on, and on your Bitcoin and really what we've developed are, 424 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,900 you know, smart contracts. That take those assets and do 425 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,200 things for you. That tend to be resource 426 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,400 intensive expensive from a gas perspective, and time-consuming. 427 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,400 And instead. You doing it. 428 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,300 As you know, just give you an example. 429 00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:57,100 One of our one of our V is the IB. 430 00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:04,300 B, TC W BT C, Sushi bulb. And when you deposit in LP on 431 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,800 Sushi, use you earn a percentage of the trading fees. 432 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,400 In that pool. If you if that pool is eligible 433 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,200 for sushi rewards. You can then take that LP token 434 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,800 that they gave you and stake it to earn Sushi, which is great, 435 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,000 but you need to claim that sir. Sushi, periodically and then 436 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,900 decide what to do with it. So we built we built a smart 437 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:30,100 contract that automatically takes your LP position sticks, 438 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:34,300 it for sushi, then takes that Sushi and sticks, it for X 439 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:38,900 Sushi, which is the protocol sharing State position for sushi 440 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:43,200 that yields anywhere between 10 and 20% Eqi and then we 441 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,400 distribute that X to shoot to the users, periodically. 442 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:51,000 So we save them all that time and effort and The amount of 443 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,900 harvest and how frequently we do it to get them, the best auto 444 00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:59,000 compounding, apy and, and users like to use that, you know, that 445 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,300 both in particular, especially if they want to accumulate more 446 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:07,000 Sushi as an example versus no other types of strategies that 447 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,600 might be something like a levered up, compound strategy. 448 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,100 We take WBT. See, we lend it out. 449 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,600 We borrow. Yeah, we lend it out. 450 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,700 We take the boat assets. We re-inject it and do that Loop 451 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,300 four or five times. X and then manage that manage 452 00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:25,500 that that positions accordingly to generate, you know, level of 453 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,700 apy, same thing on Ave and a variety of other. 454 00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:32,600 So, you know, that's that's the beauty of D50 Lego pieces and 455 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,700 they're really just fun contracts and anybody at any 456 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,500 time, can just plug into those and create different types of 457 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,600 strategies to provide some value to a user. 458 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:44,300 And in the set V products. Its users that want to earn 459 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:47,900 interest on the Bitcoin and really just sit back and let the 460 00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:52,200 smart contracts do the work. So who's in charge of devising? 461 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,800 The strategies? So the way that we we built our 462 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:03,000 this called our strategist bench similar to how kind of urine 463 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,300 started developing. There's Wi-Fi for us. 464 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,200 It's like everything else. It's a community-oriented 465 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,600 initiative. So anybody can become a badger 466 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,600 strategist can build different strategies and then as part of 467 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,400 that, you know, our vaults have different fees and we have a 20% 468 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,900 performance fee and then a point five percent. 469 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:27,700 Trophy on those bolts, the strategist that develops that 470 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:31,300 strategy earns up to 50% of that performance fee in. 471 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:35,800 This is all obviously, cemented in the, in the content in the 472 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,500 contracts. So, we know that's, that's how 473 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,800 we develop different strategies. As we crowd sourced from the 474 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,000 community, you know, early on, you know, our internal 475 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,800 developers develop many of the strategies in the beginning. 476 00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:50,600 And then, you know, every month, we subsequently get more and 477 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,400 more folks interested in building with us. 478 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,800 And and that's how we developed different types of strategies. 479 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,500 They audited for economic viability and smart contract 480 00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:05,300 risk. Most certainly, and we've done 481 00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:08,200 that from this starts. And one thing I'll just point 482 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,400 out, as I auditor audits, right? Like, call it what it is, you 483 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,900 know, just a few days ago. There was a protocol that was 484 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:17,500 exploited for 21 million that had like three audits or 485 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:18,100 something. Right? 486 00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:20,300 Like it's a must and they're in there. 487 00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:22,900 A set of Smart Eyes. We obviously believe in it. 488 00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:25,800 We audit everything we do, but we have a variety of other 489 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,500 measures. So even before we launched to 490 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:31,300 ensure that our On it. And then, as we started growing 491 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,800 up, we started implementing a few other things. 492 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,000 So we have a smart contract Advisory Board and this board is 493 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,200 a group of really really high quality developers within the 494 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,600 defy ecosystem, many that are part of other protocols and 495 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,100 that, you know, review early, iterations of our code. 496 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,100 And we bring anything that we do through the smart contract 497 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:57,100 Advisory Board, even before audit, we then work with an 498 00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:00,200 auditing multiple audit. In firms, but in a primary 499 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,600 auditing firm on a monthly basis, that audits all of our 500 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,300 contracts. We then have a level of peer 501 00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:08,000 review amongst a lot of the different protocols that we work 502 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,400 with. And then finally, we try and 503 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,900 protect users as much as possible by having guarded 504 00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:16,600 launches. So, for guarded launches, what 505 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,700 we do is we limit the amount per wallet that can deposit in the 506 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:25,500 new V, and we capped the total amount that that Vulcan take in. 507 00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:28,300 And then we also whitelist users. 508 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:31,400 Um, based on different activities that they've done. 509 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,900 Within the badger ecosystem. We call it a Badger score and 510 00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:38,500 you know only certain folks can be certain can participate. 511 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:42,100 In certain guarded launches based on their Badger score 512 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:44,400 might be a they provided liquidity or they voted in 513 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,800 governance or they've been part of badger for x amount of months 514 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,300 or whatever. It may be an accredited. 515 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:51,800 Betcha. Yeah. 516 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,500 Yeah, we could loyal Badgers accredited Badger, a variety of 517 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:58,300 things but we have we have multiple weeks of a garden Lon. 518 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,100 And we kind of moved it up, like it starts very small. 519 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,100 Then after a week. We move it up further and move 520 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:04,400 it up further and move it up further. 521 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,900 And then we open it up to everyone once we feel 522 00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:10,800 comfortable with the results or, you know, over that time frame. 523 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,300 Angel. Why is like the difference 524 00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:20,100 between like, you know, let's say I have WBT see, why would I 525 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:22,800 put it in the badger of badger fault? 526 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,900 Instead of going to a you're involved? 527 00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,100 Look. Is there any is it Lily just 528 00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,000 competing on strategies? Or is there some other big 529 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,300 differentiator between what why go to a Bitcoin Focus aggregator 530 00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,200 instead of a more generalized? One? 531 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,300 Karen. Well, we work closely with young 532 00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,500 and we're and we partnered a lot of things including the WBT c v 533 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:46,800 that you would deposit on your own. 534 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,100 So there's some very stiff and you would deposit into Badger, 535 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:53,700 it goes through the urine v as well, but really when you look 536 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:55,800 at other, your aggregate aggregators, not necessarily 537 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,900 earn in particular, but there's a there's a variety of things. 538 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,500 First and foremost is just how the whole system works together. 539 00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:07,400 So, you know, we have a few different mechanics and place, 540 00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,300 but we believe that When people deposit in a variety of 541 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:12,500 different bolts, they're potentially going to want 542 00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,100 liquidity out of those assets and they're going to want to 543 00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:18,100 continue to earn interest while being able to put those those 544 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,400 deposits to work. It's not, you know, it's not an 545 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,300 ideal experience to just kind of deposit here and that's it. 546 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,200 So that's why we created interest-bearing bitcoin and it 547 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,800 really allows anyone in all of you can be in 10 volts and you 548 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,600 can consolidate those Vault positions and to, you know, it's 549 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400 backed by a basket of those faults, but it's pretty much a 550 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,300 Meta token and then you can go and take that and bring it to 551 00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:47,800 cream and borrow against it or provide LP on Sushi turn. 552 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,000 Additionally, py or Bridget to Solana and earn over there or 553 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,200 Bridget. Two polygons and deposit it into 554 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,700 a variety of different protocols. 555 00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:59,100 So that's one of the things that we do that. 556 00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:03,000 That most others don't is, you know, having the liquidity in 557 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,800 your position, I think as well. We've been relatively Innovative 558 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,800 around. Different type of mechanics to 559 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,600 incentivize certain actions in that or boost rewards. 560 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,500 So we introduced something called Badger boost. 561 00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:24,000 And what Badger boost is is if a user has Bitcoin deposited in 562 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,800 the app, we look at what their steak ratio is. 563 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,300 Steak ratio is the Badger balance. 564 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,300 The US dollar representation of your Badger balance, plus the US 565 00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,200 dollar representation of your dig. 566 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,300 It's another Badger acid. /, the dollar value of your Bitcoin 567 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:48,800 deposits, the higher, the steak ratio the higher, the multiplier 568 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600 on additional rewards. You get when depositing in our 569 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,800 app, and why that's important is because it encourages the type 570 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:01,200 of behavior that best benefits, the Dow, which is people that 571 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,100 are not just using Bitcoin to earn and then taking some of the 572 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:08,100 additional rewards and then, you know, selling them off. 573 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,200 Illicitly, but instead people that are holding those rewards 574 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,900 but more importantly participating and getting 575 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:19,200 involved in what what the the app and the organization needs 576 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,700 to move forward. And so do you know, those are 577 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,700 certain things that that we do that others don't. 578 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:28,700 And then I think another big, another big feather on our cap 579 00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,800 is just our laser focused from a security perspective, like from 580 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,500 day one, you know, that that's been our absolute focus and it's 581 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,800 going to continue to be our focus and, you know, we Move. 582 00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:40,600 Some people think we move fast in our mind. 583 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,700 We move a little slow just so we can make sure like as much as as 584 00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:49,700 much as in the development teams control, we can mitigate risk 585 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,800 and you know, building some of these new tools that really 586 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,600 haven't existed before. What's the amount of Bitcoin 587 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,000 currently under management with Badger about six hundred million 588 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,000 dollars? And then a few months ago. 589 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,500 There was a peak of about 2.5 billion. 590 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,199 That's when Bitcoin was much higher in price. 591 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:14,000 But neither here nor there those in the earlier days. 592 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,300 We had up to 2.5 billion in Bitcoin deposit in the ACT. 593 00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:22,300 Oh, wow. That's that's a big number. 594 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,400 One thing I want to talk about actually as well do it like? 595 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,699 So what level of control does like the badger Koken hat 596 00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:35,400 holders have over this like, you know because it lets say the 597 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,000 badger. I remember correctly. 598 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,100 The current market cap is around 150 million or something. 599 00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:46,300 And so if the big value of the Bitcoin is in the 600 million, 600 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:48,800 like, how do you think about like dealing thing about the 601 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,699 security model around this? You know, so there's been 602 00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:57,700 there's been a whole slew of we call them Badger token, V2 603 00:34:58,100 --> 00:35:02,200 conversations amongst the community around, you know, 604 00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:06,600 having different models security models and backstops things 605 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,200 similar to Ave and and looking at different things, like 606 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,500 Redemption pools, and a variety of other things. 607 00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:19,000 But for the most part today, the badger token governs, the 608 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,300 parameters of all of our products. 609 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:27,600 It governs the treasury and and and that's really, you know, and 610 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,700 and obviously a governance, really, any economic decision 611 00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:33,700 that the organization could make. 612 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,300 And and, you know, to be honest with you, some people kind of 613 00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:42,300 say hey like, well you just governing, you know, this 614 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,200 protocol, like what does that mean? 615 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,600 Well, it's not it's they're not small numbers. 616 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,900 Like, you know, you know, in our treasury we have like 50 617 00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:53,900 million. Hours of Bitcoin and stable coin 618 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:56,100 and you know, we have to put that to work. 619 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:57,500 You have to use that accordingly. 620 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:00,600 There's a variety of decisions that go into how that capital is 621 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,100 manage, our total treasury. When you look at Badger that's 622 00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:05,600 in there too and dig it's like over a hundred and fifty million 623 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,800 dollars. So it's not by any means a small 624 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,600 number and there's a lot of critical decisions that need to 625 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,600 go into how that treasure is managed. 626 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,200 And then more importantly the app right? 627 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,800 We've had sixty sixty, six different Improvement, proposals 628 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,500 pass through governance. We've had 65 that have passed in 629 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,600 Sixty and one that had one of those failed during that 630 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,200 timeframe. And we have arguably one of the 631 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,100 most active voting communities, you know, based on, you know, 632 00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:39,100 different types of Statistics from Deep bow and a variety of 633 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:43,700 other even even Snapchat themselves, but neither here nor 634 00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:46,700 there. That's how that's what the 635 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:51,400 badger token governs today, but moving forward. 636 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,300 You know, the intention of the community and, you know, 637 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,400 different people that are working on bajor, every day is 638 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,400 to really build a more robust, more robust, use case, for 639 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,900 Badger around, you know, securing the protocol. 640 00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:09,400 The applications token, hold their value. 641 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,700 And and I think the delicate thing here is, you know, revenue 642 00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,000 revenue, share. And I know, you know, quite a 643 00:37:17,008 --> 00:37:21,100 few protocols have accelerated even at launch to have the 644 00:37:21,107 --> 00:37:23,200 ability. Users to earn a percentage of 645 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,000 whatever the protocol makes. I'm not saying. 646 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,800 I'm against that because I'm not but it's definitely something. 647 00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:34,300 We were very conscious to not do trying to be as delicate from a 648 00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:36,300 regulatory perspective as possible. 649 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,800 But I know it's something that a lot of people are looking at 650 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,100 potentially implementing or that we want to implement because you 651 00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:45,700 know, it is again, it's pretty substantial numbers, you know, 652 00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:48,500 over 25 million in revenue, and seven months. 653 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,700 That's that's quite a bit of quite a bit of money that Go 654 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,300 back to token holders, potentially. 655 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:58,500 Can you talk about how governance has changed from the 656 00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,200 get-go? So I remember like couple of 657 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,600 years ago. I quipped that most hours are 658 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,500 just three white guys with the mighty Sig and basically, 659 00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:15,000 obviously that has changed in the ecosystem quite a bit but 660 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,000 very few dollars. I've actually achieved or 661 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,400 decentralization. I mean, where's where's 662 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,800 badgered? Are on that scale? 663 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:28,300 Well Badger, Dow is closer to the beginning of that scale with 664 00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:30,000 a path towards the centralization. 665 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,100 It's been a really interesting Journey. 666 00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:37,200 You know, I'll just speak for myself in trying in the delicate 667 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,400 balance that comes with trying to decentralize while still 668 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:47,100 trying to remain agile and and protect users and users funds. 669 00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:52,100 When you're putting, you know, smart contracts to the market 670 00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:54,200 that touch hundreds of millions of dollars. 671 00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:57,600 Was in days, right? Like in this environment is very 672 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,600 different, from what it was a few years ago, where you put a 673 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,300 smart contract to play smart contract, the open it up and it 674 00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:06,500 gets like, you know, 500 Grand in like a few months. 675 00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:11,100 I think we've launched products that have gotten 500 million in 676 00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:15,800 two days, new contracts like, you know, naturally you want 677 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,600 smart contracts to be battle tested with a lot of time in 678 00:39:19,607 --> 00:39:23,200 Market before you start removing certain functionality like 679 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,400 upgradability. T or, you know, proxy controller 680 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,100 or things along those lines, you know, so for us where we sit 681 00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:35,400 today is we sit closer to the beginning where we have multisig 682 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,900 governance. That's dictated by the token 683 00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:40,900 holders are contracts are upgradeable. 684 00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:44,500 They are behind a 40 every other major country. 685 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,000 All of our contracts are behind a 48-hour time lock which gives 686 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,900 additional security to users to ensure that, you know, different 687 00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:54,100 Rogue developers. Couldn't put a change. 688 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:57,900 Lowered users would always have 48 hours before that change gets 689 00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:03,400 implemented, you know, but our goal, our 100% is to try and 690 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,900 decentralize as much as humanly possible, while taking it a 691 00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:12,800 little slower for the purpose of ensuring that you know, our 692 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,800 contracts are ready and and the user and the user funds in the 693 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,100 ability to respond in case of an emergency that speed is still 694 00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,100 there and adequate. So, you know, there's been quite 695 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,900 Quite a few discussions. What we call roadmap to 696 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:30,100 decentralization is proposed and being worked on within the 697 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,100 community, you know and over the course of the next six to 12 698 00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:35,400 months. I hope we make the intentions to 699 00:40:35,408 --> 00:40:37,300 make quite a bit of progress towards that. 700 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,300 So then back to the product. So you mentioned the 701 00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:45,300 interest-bearing Bitcoin as a separate product. 702 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,600 If I understand it correctly, though, what would interest 703 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,800 would interest-bearing Bitcoin? Would it be as simple as taking 704 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,000 ever does? Is it just your tokenized 705 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,300 position in the set voltage? Or is it actually more common, 706 00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:57,800 something more complicated than that? 707 00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:03,700 Yeah, it's it's more complicated because it's a basket of your 708 00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:09,100 tokenized positions in the vaults and it averages out the 709 00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:12,700 underlying interest earned through your tokenize positions 710 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,900 in this basket. Would it be fair to call her an 711 00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,000 aggregator over the badger sett bulbs will certainly but it's 712 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,500 not just it's not just for Badger sett V. 713 00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,900 It is today. But something like aw BTC from 714 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:32,400 ah, They are CW B. TC from compound can easily be 715 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,800 included now, inherently. They have lower interest rates. 716 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,800 So that would be something that the community and want to vote 717 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,100 in and it potentially bring the under the overall underlying 718 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:43,500 down. But you know, neither here nor 719 00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:48,500 there interest paid in Bitcoin is backed with tokenized v 720 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:52,600 positions which in turn or since you just smart contracts taking 721 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,600 optimized yield positions on bitcoin. 722 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,300 I don't know. Also, this other thing called 723 00:41:59,300 --> 00:42:01,700 Clause as well. Is that related, or is that 724 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:04,900 something different? Your clothes was an initial 725 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:09,300 product that we started working on near the beginning of our 726 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:13,800 journey and the idea of that was a Bitcoin collateralized stable 727 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,500 coin and you know over time, you know with certain limitations 728 00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:22,200 around how we would bring that to Market and the market 729 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,900 conditions, some of the developers decided to put that 730 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,700 on the back burner for now. So really the other Focus then 731 00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:32,800 became really around interest-bearing. 732 00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:34,800 Coin. And how do you bring that to 733 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,300 Market? But more importantly, like we 734 00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:40,300 look at it as a product. That is the most, you know, the 735 00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:43,000 most liquid Bitcoin on every chain, right? 736 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,000 Like you today you go, you know to Solano. 737 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,700 There's a wormhole W, BT C and R. 738 00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:52,400 NW B. TC and then you go to polygon or 739 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,700 BSC and it's etcb and you know, a variety of different things. 740 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,100 But if there's one Bitcoin consistent that you can bring to 741 00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:02,800 any chain, and it's inherently earning interest. 742 00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:06,100 You know, we think there's a space for that to really 743 00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:09,000 accelerate in the market. And, you know, and it really 744 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,600 pleased back into our vault product because essentially, any 745 00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:16,700 any IB B TC that's minted. It's almost like locked Bitcoin 746 00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:21,100 inside of our vaults, which is really important since the app 747 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,500 earns Revenue based on the performance fees on those 748 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,300 specific V positions, and then, you know that eventually, we 749 00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:32,700 hope it to become. You know that the easiest place 750 00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:36,200 to earn on your Bitcoin because any, you know, centralized 751 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,700 platform anyone that's looking to offer you to their users. 752 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,700 They can go out like most of done to date where they built 753 00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:46,200 like a lending and borrowing desk and they need to have 754 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,800 people and contracts and quantify lending and borrowing 755 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,100 Bitcoin to be able to offer a yield on BTC to their retail 756 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,800 users. If they have an app or whatever, 757 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,400 maybe to just integrating interest-bearing Bitcoin, and 758 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,200 users can Easily swap for me to be TC right into it and be 759 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,300 earning on that and redeem for it at any time and see exactly 760 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:10,000 where how the Bitcoins being put to work. 761 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,000 So we see that as you know, the future of really how The 762 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,800 Narrative of bringing Bitcoin to Defy is going to land with the 763 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,600 mass market and we think through different integrators that's 764 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,500 going to be one of the ways that were able to do that. 765 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,100 I guess then, the let's go on to the dig site of thing. 766 00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:34,400 So, the set protocol is or and all the associated products 767 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,600 around, it seemed they have this, like, you know, they're 768 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,500 all intertwined. You see how the interest 769 00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:40,900 bearing, the Cointreau kind of dependent on the set and all 770 00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:43,200 that. But then this is like separate 771 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,000 Universe of this like, big product. 772 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,700 So, can you maybe talk to us a little bit about? 773 00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:50,700 Tell us a little bit about what that is and then how it may be 774 00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:53,000 does relate to the rest of the badger universe. 775 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,600 Yeah, most certainly. So you're spot-on. 776 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,200 Like the bridge in the vaults and I'd be BTC are constantly 777 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,400 working together. You can bring Bitcoin, native 778 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,100 Bitcoin through the bridge right into the vaults. 779 00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:06,500 You can admit that b BT C and then use it wherever you want to 780 00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:08,800 use. It did was actually our second 781 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,600 product after the vaults that we launched before the bridge and 782 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,800 IB B TC and you know, it really falls into this bucket that will 783 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:23,100 call like synthetics synthetic Bitcoin Alternatives and we felt 784 00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:28,100 that that there was room for at a protocol level, being able to 785 00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:32,500 create a resemble Bitcoin and do it in a noncustodial way. 786 00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:36,800 And and we were inspired by the rebasing mechanics from 787 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,800 ampleforth. If you're familiar, which 788 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,000 essentially means baked into the token contract. 789 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:47,800 If the price on a given day, if the price of that asset, in this 790 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,800 case, dig is above the price of Bitcoin. 791 00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,500 Then more dig would In your wallet. 792 00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:58,200 Then the day before based on, you know, attend attend a 793 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,100 rolling average. So, for example, if it's 10% 794 00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:06,400 higher than the price of Bitcoin today, there will be one percent 795 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,300 more dig in your wallet. Why? 796 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,800 Because they then the protocol then wants you to sell that dig 797 00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:17,900 because now you have more of it. And that naturally should bring 798 00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:21,000 the price closer to the equilibrium Zone, which is in, 799 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,700 you know, five percent of the The price of the underlying 800 00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:29,700 asset that you rebasing against, and then vice versa on the, on 801 00:46:29,700 --> 00:46:32,700 the buy side, or excuse me on the, on the lower price. 802 00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:36,000 If it's a negative rebase or lower than the price of Bitcoin, 803 00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:40,000 you actually have less dig in your wallet, which encourages 804 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,700 people to buy them to bring them back to the position and some 805 00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,000 people look at it as an opportunity to hedge against, 806 00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:49,200 you know, Bitcoin over a couple week period and a variety of 807 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,000 things, but at the core of it, you know, we felt that we 808 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,300 continue to feel There's room in the market for non-custodial, 809 00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:59,100 synthetic Bitcoins. And these Bitcoins that use 810 00:46:59,100 --> 00:47:01,500 different types of mechanics like rebase in to accomplish 811 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,500 that. Why re basic? 812 00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:07,600 So, you know, I've actually spent a lot of time, look 813 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,000 thinking about rebasing systems, you know, I have this. 814 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,400 Like I'm trying to put together this like taxonomy of synthetic 815 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,900 designs. And in my taxonomy, I call 816 00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:20,100 rebasing the poor band synthetics because it's like a 817 00:47:20,100 --> 00:47:24,400 it's like, you know, it's kind of a synthetic but it's it's 818 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,600 really honestly this like sort of weird asset class that I 819 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,700 don't think as like has a good analogy outside of like crypto 820 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:35,000 already won. People using this big thing for 821 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,800 me because like, yes, I understand the price of dig will 822 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,200 always keep cremated. But like the value in someone's 823 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,900 wallet is is not really tracking the price of Bitcoin because you 824 00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:50,800 know this, because if things are rebasing, you know, what I care 825 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,400 about is, how much is the value in my wallet going up and down 826 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,500 and so our people holding this as a way of getting exposure to 827 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,800 bitcoin, or are they using it in? 828 00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:08,400 In some other way. It's the ladder right now, you 829 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,100 know, with these types of mechanics which you know, I 830 00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:14,500 would argue a very experimental and we've seen that firsthand 831 00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:18,700 from massive positive re basis that extended for months to, you 832 00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:23,500 know, triple the supply to going the other way and reducing the 833 00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:28,600 supply, you know, 80 90 percent. So people today, use it really 834 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,800 for opportunities to increase, you know, value in their 835 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,600 portfolio. How do they increase value? 836 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,300 You, they look at the market cap, right? 837 00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:42,000 So if you're looking at the price that in many instances, 838 00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:44,600 people would suggest us wrong way of looking at a rebasing 839 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,100 asset. Because if it, if the underlying 840 00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:51,200 value of the assets that rebasing against like an ample 841 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:56,600 fourth cases that you is $1, for example, it ideally should never 842 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,200 be five, ten twenty thirty dollars, right? 843 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,400 It should really never be that. But if it's in a few points, you 844 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,200 know, 10% of one dollars. On 10 cents or whatever. 845 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,400 It may be, the market capitalization of it's going to 846 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,100 keep growing because there's going to be more and more in 847 00:49:11,100 --> 00:49:15,300 circulation. So if something's a dollar but 848 00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:19,200 it's had 100 positive. Re basis at 1%, each. 849 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,800 It technically is now should have doubled, the market cap of 850 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,700 what it had before and even at the same price, you know, that 851 00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:30,100 speculative investor would have now doubled the capital that he 852 00:49:30,100 --> 00:49:33,500 invested in the beginning and that's how people use this asset 853 00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:36,300 for us. It's very volatile, extremely 854 00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:38,700 volatile. It's very experimental today, 855 00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:42,500 and we've seen that through what we've been building, but our 856 00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:46,700 vision was always, you know, one being first, but also ensuring 857 00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:50,400 utility because a lot of rebates and assets, don't have utility. 858 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,900 And if you can find a way to drive, relative stability, on 859 00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:56,600 that asset, but more importantly of a bunch of different use 860 00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,200 cases for it, which inherently bring more stability to it. 861 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,800 Since people be depositing, it to borrow against in variety of 862 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,600 different things. You know, that over time, 863 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,100 especially in this early, early Market of defying, like The 864 00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:11,700 Primitives that are being built. Now. 865 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,000 There's something to be said around, you know, when 866 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,700 something's been around a long time and has a bunch of places 867 00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:20,500 that you can use it, and, you know, obviously has some of the 868 00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:22,700 other mechanics that people might be interested in. 869 00:50:22,700 --> 00:50:26,400 So we've we've tried hard to find additional, we call like 870 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:32,900 third-party anchors for dig, because we, we've seen how the 871 00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:36,400 buy side is not nearly as Effective as this Elsa like from 872 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,400 a token mechanic perspective. We're on the South Side. 873 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:42,100 Everyone's going to be a lot of people sell when it goes above 874 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:47,900 but when it's below, people get scared and cell instead of by 875 00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:51,900 and get back in their position. So we've introduced a variety of 876 00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:53,900 things. One of the things that's worked 877 00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:59,600 really well in the last couple months at least is our kpi 878 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:04,500 options in partnership with Uma where we instead of saying, hey, 879 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:08,700 the Was it dig into our V to earn, you know, certain rewards. 880 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:11,600 We say those rewards are only paid out. 881 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,300 If certain actions are met, for example, at a minimum five, 882 00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:21,500 rebase positive re basis and a 30-day time frame for every 883 00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:24,200 additional positive. Rebates after five. 884 00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:28,700 You incrementally, get more rewards as part of that. 885 00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:34,600 So that additional anchor or factor, just just further nudge. 886 00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:38,500 As users to do, you know what, the underlying token mechanics 887 00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,900 needed to do to grow a market cap, essentially. 888 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,900 I mean and following, you know, Temple for there was like, you 889 00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:51,500 know, a series of, you know, rebase 2.0 projects that came 890 00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:53,500 out, you know, yeah. Yeah, but then, you know, I 891 00:51:53,500 --> 00:51:56,700 think maybe the biggest one was ESD and, you know, they had 892 00:51:56,700 --> 00:51:59,900 something interesting going on where they actually like folk 893 00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:03,100 what I would consider a somewhat silly mechanism or rebasing and 894 00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:06,300 I'm actually kind of try to apply it in a more useful 895 00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:09,200 productive way. Have you guys been working 896 00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:11,400 thinking about any other sort of these kind of things, how we 897 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,900 count, how to make I would take this dig and maybe I guess we'll 898 00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:19,000 part of it is, how does so, how does it connect back to that 899 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,100 rest of the badger ecosystem? Does it feed back into Badger 900 00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:27,100 value or in any way? Yes. 901 00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:31,500 Oh, so right now dig is used as part of a major boost. 902 00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:35,900 So the dollar value of dig that you hold their steak will 903 00:52:35,900 --> 00:52:39,700 increase your underlying 8py when depositing Bitcoin in the 904 00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:41,100 app. So that's his main utility 905 00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:44,000 today. But we've worked with the 906 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,500 stabilized team to create what we call a stability Vault on. 907 00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:50,700 So this is really how it ties back into our existing products 908 00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:54,200 and this Vault. Essentially what it does is 909 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,300 based on parameters automatically. 910 00:52:56,900 --> 00:53:00,300 Buys and sells at certain certain times. 911 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,900 And if we could have a larger percentage of that circulating 912 00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:09,800 Supply deposit in that Vault, that V is really going to help 913 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,100 prevent dig from getting below a certain price and also going 914 00:53:13,100 --> 00:53:15,700 above a certain price. But what's happening, there is 915 00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:20,600 your inherently building WBT. See Reserve to your almost 916 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:25,000 having it being backed partially by wvpt. 917 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,100 See but doing It in a way where instead of just taking, you 918 00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:34,000 know, WBT see and you know, just putting it against it instead, 919 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,900 you know, we use these automated strategies to create that 920 00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:42,600 reserved and then help drive those help drive those 921 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,100 parameters as necessary to keep it in a certain range. 922 00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:48,800 So that now that's again. This is what we've been trying, 923 00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:52,600 you know, don't you know admittedly it's not it's not 924 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,300 easy like this tackling rebasing very, very difficult. 925 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,200 We like many have had challenges with it. 926 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,300 But we of course, continue to stay committed to try to make it 927 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:07,500 as successful as we can. I'm excited from it from the 928 00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:10,800 perspective of that. Like I think what we've seen in 929 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:15,000 the last like one year is so many new stable coin designs. 930 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,400 Right? Really? 931 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,100 I treat stable coins as a very specialized type of synthetic 932 00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:23,800 there. A USD synthetic and a lot of 933 00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:26,900 these designs. So, you know, maybe USD is the 934 00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:31,300 most demanded synthetic often in defy, but I'm willing to bet 935 00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:34,300 that maybe a Bitcoin synthetic might be the second most like 936 00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:37,200 demanded synthetic and so or Interest-bearing Bitcoin 937 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,100 synthetic, but but what I'm saying, is that still backed by 938 00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:42,800 The Croc Bitcoin, but I'm talking about like a you know, 939 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,600 so I'm sure you know, how big is kind of trying to be like a no 940 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,100 collateralized like synthetic Bitcoin and so like, you know, 941 00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:53,600 you look at something like and I'm a big fan of a protocol, 942 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,700 right? And so that's like a protocol 943 00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:58,700 that like it's a new stable coin design that's like partially 944 00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:00,900 collateralized. And so I wonder if there's a 945 00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:04,400 ways to take like the idea behind the face table corn and 946 00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:07,300 turn it into take that. The same mechanism design and 947 00:55:07,300 --> 00:55:10,400 create lumps of some sort of partially collateralized Bitcoin 948 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,900 or something like that. So if there's no doubt that's 949 00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:16,000 going to happen. It's not about if it's a win, 950 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,600 right? Like 100% that's going to 951 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,400 happen. I think a lot of these stable 952 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,700 coronary into mechanics are working themselves out, like you 953 00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:27,400 talked about a few of them ESD DSD, you know, and some and 954 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,800 that, you know, rising and burning at the time when we were 955 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,400 launching dig. Actually, we're getting a lot of 956 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,100 scrutiny. Being like all using, you know, 957 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,500 old Can ex and you know these coupon and bond models are way 958 00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:41,800 more effective. And look at this, look at that. 959 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,800 And you know, they'll the nature of the Beast is is like these 960 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,700 are all experiments that we're trying to figure out and I but I 961 00:55:48,700 --> 00:55:52,300 do agree with you sonny like over time, many of the 962 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:57,100 interesting designs for for stable coins are it's going to 963 00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:58,900 bleed into other assets for sure. 964 00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:01,300 And you know, we've already started to see some of those 965 00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:05,400 things already. But yeah, like, you know, I 966 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,900 think I'm not I'm not that familiar with Olympus, for 967 00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:13,600 example, each em, but I think they just recently turned a 968 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,000 nonbonding for ether as an asset and I did you know, there's just 969 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,900 there's a variety of protocols and I'm certain that, you know, 970 00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:25,500 all the top assets are going to have some type of representation 971 00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:28,600 this way. Well, unfortunately, we're 972 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,300 getting to the end. So I have a couple of questions 973 00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:35,900 about the future for you. So you're already kind of hinted 974 00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:40,100 at this but what what are your thoughts on defy on bitcoin? 975 00:56:40,100 --> 00:56:42,200 So things like rootstock? For instance. 976 00:56:42,500 --> 00:56:46,100 Do you think that'll take off? Would you sales tax? 977 00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:50,600 Yeah, I think takeoff is very relative. 978 00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:55,600 Right, you know every day we decide what to build on and 979 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,100 every day it makes it more and more clear that building on a 980 00:56:58,107 --> 00:57:01,400 theorem is where we want to build and we build on other 981 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,500 chains, but primarily their evm compatible chains just because 982 00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,100 it's, we can just take what we've already built and poured 983 00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:10,100 it over. And then, you know, we're 984 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,300 actively, you know, preparing to launch on optimism and orbitrim 985 00:57:14,300 --> 00:57:16,200 as well. And differently or two 986 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,100 solutions. So, you know, for us at least 987 00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:24,200 I'm not saying it's out of the picture defy on bitcoin. 988 00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:31,200 I think is a very immature Market just because if you're 989 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:36,300 actively looking at the most effective way to to build it's 990 00:57:36,300 --> 00:57:39,700 not on bitcoin no matter how you slice it even from like 991 00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:44,600 interoperability of tools and the the developer audience. 992 00:57:44,700 --> 00:57:49,400 Since the everything you could imagine, it's really behind the 993 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:50,600 ball. And it may make a lot of 994 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,900 progress there. But like a lot of these things 995 00:57:52,900 --> 00:57:55,400 are super experimental. Anyways, like, look at some of 996 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,900 the standards in a theorem that have been around so long and 997 00:57:57,900 --> 00:58:02,200 even how some of them continue like, I think, you know, a white 998 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,200 hat, a white hat, hacker found like, you know, critical 999 00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,000 vulnerability in a contract from like four years ago or something 1000 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:09,700 like that. Right? 1001 00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:12,000 Like these are the types of things that are going to 1002 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,400 continue to come to the surface. So when you have In being built 1003 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,800 there. It's going to be that much more 1004 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,800 vulnerable to potential risks and S exploits. 1005 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,600 And I think it's important for the builders that are trying to 1006 00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,500 build a new Financial system to really double down on trying 1007 00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:36,200 their best, at least to be act at a level of high integrity and 1008 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,800 a level of high integrity in many instances. 1009 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,700 When it's when everything you buildings, open source is, you 1010 00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:47,700 know, building where there's the least risk of Of screwing up and 1011 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:49,800 putting people's funds or whatever. 1012 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,900 It may be at risk. So, I do think, I don't think 1013 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:55,200 it's a closed door. I don't think necessarily ever 1014 00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,800 be as big as a building on a theory. 1015 00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,100 Mm. But I do think there are going 1016 00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:02,200 to be some interesting projects that come out of it as that 1017 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,600 space matures and grows and the bridges are further developed, 1018 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,900 you know, there could be a place for Badger in particular to 1019 00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:12,900 build products there and provide value to users. 1020 00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:17,200 But yeah, I think Come. I think it's quite a ways away. 1021 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:23,100 Yeah, and if you look at what percentage of Bitcoin is 1022 00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:28,200 currently wrapped and used as collateral in defy, that's on 1023 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,900 the order of 1%. How do you see that increasing 1024 00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:37,200 over the coming year or two? I think it's just going to grow 1025 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,700 exponentially. I see it as you know, 30 1026 00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:45,800 eventually 30 40 % of all Bitcoin will be wrapped in 1027 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:50,000 tokenized on other chains in the next year. 1028 00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:54,500 In the next two years. I'd say we probably hit five 1029 00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:57,400 percent if we continue growing at this pace, which I think 1030 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,800 which I think we will. And and and really, we haven't 1031 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,900 even this is what's crazy. We haven't even seen. 1032 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,500 Dean, you know, big institutional money 1033 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,900 participating in defy applications and institutional 1034 01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:15,300 money to me is not like Morgan, Stanley. 1035 01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:19,600 Crap like that, you know, even some of the largest crypto 1036 01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:24,000 native funds in the world that have been around for five years, 1037 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,300 that manage billions of dollars of LP. 1038 01:00:26,300 --> 01:00:31,100 Money are not participating in a big way in defy apps, and 1039 01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:35,300 they're not participating big way in defy and that, That wave 1040 01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:40,700 is just going to be crazy. And and, and I think I tend to 1041 01:00:40,700 --> 01:00:44,000 believe, of course, if these funds and it's, you know, crypto 1042 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,900 native institutional players have had been around awhile. 1043 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,900 There's probably a couple assets that they hold the most in and 1044 01:00:51,900 --> 01:00:53,800 those are mostly Bitcoin in a theorem. 1045 01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:56,800 And then obviously stable coins. They're definitely not, you know 1046 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,600 looking to lend out shit coin number four for one or whatever 1047 01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,700 the hell it is, right? So that that's where I think a 1048 01:01:03,700 --> 01:01:07,900 lot of the Institutional and just overall acceleration in 1049 01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:08,500 rap. Bitcoin. 1050 01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:10,900 Like you can already see the writing on the wall with Galaxy 1051 01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:14,700 digital acquiring bit goal, which is the custodian creator 1052 01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:15,900 of WBT. See. 1053 01:01:16,500 --> 01:01:19,000 So some of these things are just going to start accelerating much 1054 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,700 quicker than we anticipated. And all of a sudden we see 1055 01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:24,700 corporate treasuries, you know, earning two or three percent on 1056 01:01:24,707 --> 01:01:29,100 their Bitcoin and and a variety of things happening and that and 1057 01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:31,100 that number to your point is just going to. 1058 01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:32,800 It's just going to grow like crazy. 1059 01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:38,100 So do you think Bitcoin is going to end up as a limited Supply? 1060 01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:39,500 Yes. He 20. 1061 01:01:41,700 --> 01:01:46,000 I don't think so. I think, you know, that would be 1062 01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:53,400 suggesting that a lot a lot like 80 90 percent of Bitcoin is 1063 01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,300 tokenize and represented off of the Bitcoin Network. 1064 01:01:56,300 --> 01:02:00,000 I don't think that would ever happen but getting close to 50%. 1065 01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,800 I wouldn't be surprised. And it's really going to come 1066 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:07,900 down to how, how Bitcoin, how the Bitcoin Network can evolve, 1067 01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:09,900 and they've always been slow. Rightfully. 1068 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,000 Ooh, so, you know, from a security perspective that's 1069 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,100 always been their mandate slow to make changes to the 1070 01:02:15,107 --> 01:02:19,200 underlying protocol and just building on the network in 1071 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,300 general. But you know, if they continue 1072 01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:25,600 to be that slow, I think it's going to be I think it's going 1073 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,300 to be eventually get to the point where there's more Bitcoin 1074 01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:30,600 off of the Bitcoin Network than on the Bitcoin Network. 1075 01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:35,100 More questions. No for me about badgers 1076 01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:40,200 pacifically how important you think like the culture and The 1077 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:45,000 Vibes and aesthetic is to like Badger likey, you is there, is 1078 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,300 there a sense to which the brand is the product here? 1079 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,700 And like, you know, it's big that such that is like, you 1080 01:02:52,707 --> 01:02:55,900 know, the product, you know, you guys are iterating on a number 1081 01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:58,300 of different products. But the real product of the 1082 01:02:58,300 --> 01:03:02,100 badger Dow is this idea that like, hey, Hey, I want to use 1083 01:03:02,100 --> 01:03:05,400 Bitcoin and defy that's like going to be my One, Stop Shop to 1084 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,600 go. Go to the badger. 1085 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,000 Dow and look, you know, it'll be my dashboard a little, be my 1086 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,400 even in a world where let's say, you removed, you know, like you 1087 01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,900 mentioned like, you know, the WBT see Vault, insect is 1088 01:03:18,900 --> 01:03:23,600 primarily, you know, it's mostly kind of interacting heavily with 1089 01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:29,600 the yearn WB, DC volts. And so these are you think that 1090 01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:33,900 the, the value really Come from being you can treat it almost 1091 01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:38,000 like a custom skin or custom user experience. 1092 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,600 That's that like wraps around. All these other d by protocols, 1093 01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,700 but really tailored towards Bitcoin users. 1094 01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:47,900 Yeah. Yeah, from a product 1095 01:03:47,900 --> 01:03:52,400 perspective, Sunny like, I feel like that's where we, we started 1096 01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,300 our journey, right? The One-Stop shop like, your, 1097 01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:58,000 your ultimate dashboard to everything, Bitcoin and defy 1098 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,800 that's changed a bit, you know, where we eventually want to get 1099 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,700 to is just be the most trusted place to earn on your Bitcoin 1100 01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,000 and we believe with, you know an interest interest bearing 1101 01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,000 Bitcoin type product that will kind of be our retail focus and 1102 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,000 then all like the super users will come to like the badger Pro 1103 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,500 app, which is more similar. Into what you see today and 1104 01:04:18,500 --> 01:04:20,800 that's integrated with a variety of different protocols. 1105 01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,800 There's tranching there's in there's all these different 1106 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,000 things you can do with synthetic assets and pick your pick which 1107 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,100 chain you want to, you know, go on and use the Boost mechanics 1108 01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:32,800 and all these different types of things. 1109 01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,800 But yeah, and most certainly think that even when we look to 1110 01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,500 partner with different protocols, they always say, you 1111 01:04:39,508 --> 01:04:42,000 know, in partnering with Badger, you know, we're bringing the 1112 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,400 Bitcoin crowd to whatever working and, and I think that's 1113 01:04:46,500 --> 01:04:48,900 The nature of it, like it's really our community. 1114 01:04:49,300 --> 01:04:53,500 That's the strongest and that you know has has shared this 1115 01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:58,000 shared belief system. But even in this is really why I 1116 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,900 chose the name Badger. It's because you know, a honey 1117 01:05:01,900 --> 01:05:04,400 badger has certain characteristics, right? 1118 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,600 They're Relentless their Fierce. They're small, they can take a 1119 01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,700 bite from a rattlesnake. They can fight a tiger. 1120 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,300 That's why Bitcoin was always that was the big that is the 1121 01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:18,900 Bitcoin mascot. Because it was always The Little 1122 01:05:18,900 --> 01:05:23,000 Engine That Could and something that you know, was, was totally 1123 01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,700 going Against All Odds. And that's, and that's how we 1124 01:05:25,700 --> 01:05:27,600 look at it. And that's how all the community 1125 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,900 members that are fighting the same fight that were fighting 1126 01:05:30,900 --> 01:05:32,800 here and building a new Financial system. 1127 01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:36,700 Rewriting The Playbook on how organizations can grow and scale 1128 01:05:36,700 --> 01:05:38,700 but maintain a level of decentralization and 1129 01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:43,200 transparency and most important bring utility to what we believe 1130 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,300 to be the best asset ever created being Bitcoin. 1131 01:05:46,700 --> 01:05:49,500 So it's a mix of a mix of a few things son. 1132 01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:52,200 And we have a direct product Vision on that one. 1133 01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,700 Click and S to earn for the masses and being integrated in 1134 01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:59,400 every major platform that wants to offer that service to their 1135 01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,200 users. And then on the flip side, you 1136 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,200 know, our ethos and our belief system aligns very closely with 1137 01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:10,400 the honey badger. Thank you Chris. 1138 01:06:10,700 --> 01:06:14,600 So where can people find out more about what better Dow, and 1139 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,000 how can they partake in the experience? 1140 01:06:19,100 --> 01:06:21,100 Well, you can come to our website badgered off. 1141 01:06:21,100 --> 01:06:23,400 Finance. There's a link to our app there 1142 01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,500 which is apt up vegetal Finance. I'd say the best place to start 1143 01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:31,100 is our Wiki Badger dot Wiki all the resources. 1144 01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:33,900 You would need around Badger all of our products, how it all 1145 01:06:33,900 --> 01:06:36,100 works. Everything is there. 1146 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,000 And then of course, our Discord Discord is where the company and 1147 01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,800 organization, more importantly, the community lives and 1148 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,100 breathes. So joining our disc orders of 1149 01:06:46,107 --> 01:06:48,200 Lincoln or Twitter, which is just badgered. 1150 01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,500 Ow. And you can go there and join 1151 01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:53,000 our Discord. And there's quite a few Badgers 1152 01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,500 that will welcome you with open hands and answer any questions 1153 01:06:57,500 --> 01:07:00,100 that you have and really just including myself and just be 1154 01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:03,500 there to support you on your journey to become a badger. 1155 01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,400 Great. It's been a pleasure to have you 1156 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,500 here. Same. 1157 01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:10,300 Thank you so much as it was a great conversation. 1158 01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:15,400 I appreciate it. Thank you for joining us on this 1159 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,700 week's episode. We release new episodes every 1160 01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:19,700 week. You can find And subscribe to 1161 01:07:19,707 --> 01:07:23,500 the show on iTunes Spotify, YouTube SoundCloud or wherever 1162 01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:25,900 you listen to podcast. And if you have a Google home or 1163 01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:28,700 Alexa device, you can tell it to listen to the latest episode of 1164 01:07:28,707 --> 01:07:31,800 the epicenter podcast. Go to epicenter dot TV /, 1165 01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,200 subscribe for a full list of places where you can watch and 1166 01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,500 listen, while you're there, be sure to sign up for the 1167 01:07:36,500 --> 01:07:38,500 newsletter. So you get new episodes in your 1168 01:07:38,500 --> 01:07:42,300 inbox as they're released if you want to interact with us, guests 1169 01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:45,100 or Other podcast listeners, you can follow us on Twitter and 1170 01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:46,600 please leave us a review on iTunes. 1171 01:07:46,700 --> 01:07:49,000 It helps people find the show, and we're always happy to read 1172 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,400 them. But thanks so much and we look 1173 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:52,600 forward to being back next week.