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Welcome to epicenter of the show
is talks about the Technologies 

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projects and people driving 
decentralization and the 

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blockchain revolution. 
I'm suggesting with you today. 

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I'm speaking with Fidelity. 
Cocoon. 

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Sakuma. 
He's the co-founder of f most 

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the CEO of a company that is 
driving that project tharsis. 

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Has and he used previously, an 
engineer over a tenement. 

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I sort of an OG in the cosmos 
and interchange ecosystem. 

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This interview was recorded on a
new podcast that I'm launching. 

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It's called the interop. 
And it's all about understanding

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the decentralized economic 
networks that make up the inner 

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chain, the cosmos ecosystem, and
I hope to get a better 

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understanding of the topology of
the internet of blockchains. 

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And the technologies that make 
it possible. 

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This is a podcast for developers
and investors and I hope to have

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really in-depth technical 
conversations with the people 

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that I interview. 
Similar to the kinds of 

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interviews that we do on a 
center, but also discuss the 

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long-term prospects for the 
interchange and Cosmos 

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ecosystem. 
So, part of the interview will 

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be released here on epicenter 
and the remaining third of the 

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interview, the last part which 
talks about the recent hiccups 

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around, the launch of f, most 
will be Be released on the 

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interrupt podcast and so there 
will be a link in the show notes

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of this episode that takes you 
to the different YouTube 

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channels and podcast apps where 
you can listen And subscribe to 

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the podcast. 
And I hope you'll subscribe 

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because it's gonna be a lot of 
fun. 

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And we're be diving deep into 
the cosmos ecosystem at 

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everything that's going on 
there. 

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Right now, before you go to the 
interview. 

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And with that, here's my 
interview on the interop. 

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Podcast with fit a CO Canseco 
mama. 

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Welcome to the interrupt. 
This is a podcast about 

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understanding that the 
decentralized economic networks,

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which make up the inner chain. 
And my hope is that my listeners

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will gain a better understanding
of the topology of these 

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networks that technologies that 
make it possible and the 

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opportunities that it provides 
to investors and developers. 

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I'm suggesting with you. 
I'm a podcaster an investor. 

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I'm here today with Fede kou-kun
sakuma who's the co-founder of f

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most and the CEO of tharsis. 
Thanks for joining me today. 

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His name is Ian. 
Thanks for having me today. 

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Really excited to be part of the
interop on. 

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Also this new Venture that 
you're starting. 

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This is a new podcast. 
It's called the interop. 

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This episode is going to go out 
on epicenter, which is my other 

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podcast, but also go out on the 
interop. 

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So it's a bit of a 
cross-promotion here to get 

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people in the epicenter Universe
to also, you know, start 

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listening to the interop because
there's so much happening in The

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Interchange ecosystem right now,
and I think like there's a lot 

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of interest for it. 
And we've seen that, like, with 

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all of this new content coming 
out, and what I want to do with 

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this podcast, is bring more 
technical discussion. 

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So the As of conversations that 
we have on epicenter, you know, 

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the very deep technical 
discussions, but that also go 

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like Kyle kind of high level. 
And looking at the ecosystem. 

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You know, I like a 10,000 feet 
level. 

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I want to have those 
conversations about about the 

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interchanging of the cosmos 
ecosystem. 

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But yeah, for listeners who 
aren't familiar with you and 

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you've been in that Enderman and
Cosmos kind of ecosystem. 

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For a really long time. 
You were like an early employee 

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at tender moment. 
Tell us a bit about like, you 

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know, how your background I 
think also Sunny is the person 

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Who kind of got you, hired a 
tender Mentor, introduce you to 

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the tenement organization back 
in the day. 

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Like, give us a bit of a 
background here. 

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I like how you came into into 
this world. 

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Yeah, as you mentioned, I was 
one of the hotel. 

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You like first employees, a 
tender moment, but more 

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importantly, I was also like one
of the first entrance. 

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Uh-huh, from tender moment. 
So I was part of blocked here in

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Berkeley. 
As part of my semester abroad 

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that I did use your Berkeley and
well-being unblocked here in 

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Berkeley. 
Sonny had just dropped out 

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during that semester and he 
started working at Cosmos 

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temperament and sunny. 
So my work that I was doing with

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the blockchain Berkeley 
organization working with the 

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friend Fortune 500 companies, 
developing smart, contracts, Etc

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on. 
He introduced me to them. 

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Tender mean team that was 
working super hard back. 

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Then was post Ico. 
So there were like working super

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hard on developing all the 
functionalities of Cosmos back 

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in the day. 
They started working on the 

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cosmos F CK. 
They had Peggy and they also had

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of course ether mint which is a 
precursor project of demos and 

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They saw my work and I applied 
for an internship and I started 

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working with them. 
And then once I graduated I 

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moved to a full-time position 
and relocated to Berlin. 

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Yeah, because you were initially
working from the San Francisco 

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office, I think. 
And then you, then move to the 

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Berlin office where you're now 
based. 

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What was it? 
Like, in the early days of 

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working at tender meant, what 
was the five there? 

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Do it was super Raj. 
There were so many projects 

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going on. 
There was Peggy, which was a 

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former name of gravity reaches 
wall. 

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Ether meant to Enderman core 
Cosmos. 

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SEK on Gallo, which initially 
was only part of the cosmos SDK,

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but then like it was moved to 
another code base so that you 

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can have like separation of 
concerns and the cosmos have 

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crude. 
Going to its own particular code

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base with different 
functionalities Etc. 

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Like the one. 
We now see what the gravity 

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Doug's etcetera. 
Yeah, so lots of projects teams 

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working on all these different 
initiatives interns working on 

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an everything back in the day. 
When I joined full time. 

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I was working on the Voyager and
wallet. 

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I'm not sure if you remember 
that. 

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At with Jordan and I'm 50. 
They were the first ones to 

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introduce you. 
I for Kosmos with governance a 

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implement we implemented. 
It. 

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Also The Ledger, The Ledger ui4 
to connect directly with the 

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Ledger Cosmos applications that 
had just launched on. 

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Yeah. 
It was exciting times back in 

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the days. 
And when did you start working 

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on putting an evm on on tender 
meant? 

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I think you were part of the 
first kind of team within the 

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tournament organization to start
working on that project. 

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So I didn't work exactly oniy. 
Thurmond back in the days. 

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I was mostly working on either 
Borger Peggy. 

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So gravity bridge and I also 
Also worked on the cosmos SDK, 

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but when so like initially ether
men, which was his first 

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iteration of evm on top of the 
tenement consensus, Enderman 

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Court, consensus engine. 
It was developed first. 

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I wasn't Enderman obligation, 
which is the base layer that the

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cosmos has AK in now. 
Implements and then it migrated 

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fully to like a call. 
How's application? 

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So our cost me no space chain, 
and that took a while on was 

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spearheaded by Jackson Pollock 
who coincidentally was hired to 

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p.m. 
To e Thurman project. 

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And then once once more 
resources were required for the 

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Cosmos Club, he switch teams and
start working on that project. 

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We were also working with Alex 
best. 

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Yeah. 
The best was the core 

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contributor for a long time. 
And also started working on 

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ether mint, and then migrated 
all entirely to the consonants 

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SDK and the rest of that. 
Then their main core. 

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And basically he's been working 
on the fullest like the full 

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stock of Cosmos applications for
a while. 

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So yeah, I I worked. 
Yeah, but so, back to your 

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original question. 
When did I start working? 

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It was in 2020 when I was a 
Contracting for chain safe. 

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So after I left tender mean, I 
started freelancing and working 

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for different entities. 
And one of them was one of them 

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was a chain safe and I started 
working on ether man kazoo. 

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They had received a grant from 
the ICF to work on it. 

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Mint. 
So, I want to get the straight 

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into F most here. 
And, you know, I I heard you say

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on a community call. 
I think it was a couple weeks 

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ago that what you're doing is 
difficult. 

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And, you know, I think it's 
difficult enough to build to 

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build applications on 
blockchains. 

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There's all sorts of things that
need to be taken into account 

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that perhaps are abstracted away
in You know, web development or 

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like more mature, development 
environments. 

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There is just the fact that it's
decentralized. 

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You have to take. 
You have all these stakeholders 

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into account. 
There's the fact that, you know,

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like, you have to keep the chain
secure with like validators or 

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Miners and you guys are adding 
an extra complexity on to this, 

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which is, you know, like 
marrying these two technologies 

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that weren't made, like, work 
made to work together initially.

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Ink and I'm coming at this with 
like not very technical. 

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00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,200
I but like it seems to me that 
these Technologies are are not 

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well suited to go together. 
Can you break down? 

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Like why building and evm on 
tenement consensus and event in 

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integrating IDC in to that 
technology stack is so complex. 

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So, the main problem that we see
in into reading, not only to the

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call to Tender minute 
specifically, but to the rest of

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the cosmos ecosystem is the log 
of support for ethereum tools, 

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etherium keys. 
So, for example, one very 

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particular case that has been 
super hard for us to like, go 

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through and we had to take, we 
had to make like really Tough 

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decisions in terms of like how 
can we improve user experience 

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was the lack of support for a 
theorem keys from the cosmos 

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ecosystem? 
Because Cosmos only supports one

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00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,800
type of key. 
That is the one-sided shared 

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across the cosmos Hub, Etc. 
So like when you create your 

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address is always in that key 
format, we see which is a sec P 

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256 K 1, coincidentally if um, 
also implements that are key but

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has a A different derivations in
for the private key to the 

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address. 
So the address generated with 

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the same key is different and 
that results in just imagining, 

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you going to coupler wallet on 
opening your top and then if you

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00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,200
explore that private key and 
then you import it to say meta, 

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00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,800
mosque, you have a completely 
different key like a different 

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address. 
So to say that's one case and 

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then the other thing just like 
misc things. 

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Like for example, the address 
form. 

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00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:58,900
Only theorem is hex. 
Audra's is like CRX, blah, blah,

229
00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:02,300
blah, unknown Cosmos. 
You have like big 32. 

230
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:05,900
So you need to create 
compatibility for the user to 

231
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:06,900
know or to. 
Okay. 

232
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:09,900
I'm now using a cosmos. 
Audra's. 

233
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:14,800
I should expect to use the back,
32 the back, 30, 24 months. 

234
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,000
So like the ones to start with 
Cosmos or F or ever most in our 

235
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:25,400
case or osmose all small cities.
So you have like all these four 

236
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,900
mounts that are different, 
that's more like on the ux kind 

237
00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:32,900
of thing. 
And then on top of that, you 

238
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:36,400
have the problem that in the 
intent a consensus. 

239
00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,800
It's bft so fast finality. 
So there's no concept of pending

240
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,500
state. 
So when you have to wait for the

241
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,700
transaction to finalize, 
sometimes only theorem you have 

242
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:54,100
like transaction pending on the 
on ether scan like I call these 

243
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:59,200
functionality that on tender - 
is not there, because there's 

244
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:06,000
never I don't know if there's 
never been a use case on needs 

245
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,700
to support handling pending 
stage because it's like, with 

246
00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,800
the state is is committed to the
chain. 

247
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:15,200
Yeah, it's not probabilistic 
like in like an ethereal. 

248
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,900
More proof is proof of work. 
Blockchains. 

249
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:20,500
Those are the mental illness. 
Its instruction is verified 

250
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,400
internally and then broadcaster 
to the rest of the network. 

251
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:29,000
And then the the transaction is 
finalized, but on on the 

252
00:15:29,008 --> 00:15:32,600
theorem, do you actually need to
have Probabilistic finality. 

253
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:40,700
So like a Nakamoto consensus 
where that the journey to be 

254
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,700
like confirmations for the 
transactions in order to be 

255
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:50,700
included to the To the heaviest 
subtree, as well. 

256
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,600
I'm not exactly sure how polygon
Works under the hood. 

257
00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:01,200
But my understanding is that 
polygon is is an evm chain on 

258
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,400
tenement. 
Right? 

259
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,400
What's different about polygons 
and F most aside from the fact 

260
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,300
that maybe there's IBC on that 
bus. 

261
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,900
So the mean difference is, the 
architecture polygon was created

262
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:18,900
in a way to entirely support, 
the theorem ecosystem on to 

263
00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:25,600
create checkpoints to the Block 
Chain, so you can, even though 

264
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,600
you have fuss finality on the 
tender me consensus, you can you

265
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,300
can eventually roll back to the 
previews, to the previous blogs,

266
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:41,300
and you've even needed be. 
So, the approach here is 

267
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,700
different, and then, I think 
they're working on a costume 

268
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:47,300
siiiick, but there are still 
implementing checkpointing. 

269
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:51,600
Thus taking this taking 
approaches different. 

270
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:54,600
Aunt. 
So it's not very modular and I 

271
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,400
think they're working on like an
SDK as well. 

272
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,800
Polly going to seek a so that 
they can have more chains that 

273
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,099
are evm compatible in their 
ecosystem. 

274
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,700
But the, the module, our 
president, they have is very 

275
00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:13,800
different from the ones that we 
can find what nowadays on Cosmos

276
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,700
because they don't need to run 
into this issue of like, oh, 

277
00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:21,000
compatibility between Cosmos and
etherium and they took the 

278
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,599
approach of Creating the owner 
drafting, the entire 

279
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,700
architecture, visioning theorem.
So they don't have to handle any

280
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,600
of the cosmos cases. 
Okay. 

281
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:37,600
Yeah, instead and when when a 
theory mm starts moving, when 

282
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,900
the evm, I mean, like basically 
e, theorem 2 is going to be 

283
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:45,000
fast. 
Finality, proof of stake. 

284
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:50,200
Are there aspects of like the 
East to evm or whatever? 

285
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,800
That should look like that? 
Make it easier for f. 

286
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,000
Most Implement? 
Where are you don't have to take

287
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,800
into account. 
This this technical debt. 

288
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:07,800
Has to do with proof of work. 
So, most of the components from 

289
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,700
proof of work, we actually are 
not relevant to us. 

290
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,300
So, for example, the on the 
json-rpc than minor namespace or

291
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,000
settings that coinbase audra's 
for the minor like goal that 

292
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,500
stuff. 
So the validator itself is the 

293
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:29,200
one that is using all these 
functionality itself, any tool 

294
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,800
handle through the cosmos, 
component of f Mo's, which is, 

295
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,600
which are the cosmos is it came 
out? 

296
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:40,500
Jules whereas only theorem until
Honda through like internal get 

297
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,500
architecture or like in this 
case. 

298
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:49,800
Yeah, they eith to architecture.
So like one big thing is like, 

299
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,200
even though if you're my evolved
to eat, he eats 2.0. 

300
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:58,300
We still need to ensure that 
compatibility with some of the 

301
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,700
existing tooling. 
And so there are two approaches 

302
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:07,500
here, either. 
You reduce compatibility with 

303
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:16,800
say meta, mosques or other evm 
explorers clients, Etc, tools or

304
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,500
by, for example, just 
implementing the VM and use it 

305
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:28,200
on your own say json-rpc. 
I'm porn some whatever on which 

306
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,900
will cause all these clouds to 
break. 

307
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,900
Or you start you need to all the
time. 

308
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,800
Try to catch up with the latest 
developments or the latest 

309
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,400
versions supported of Main and 
only theorem. 

310
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,300
So there's some double effort. 
And in terms of like supporting 

311
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,700
all the cosmos ecosystem, 
tooling supporting all the 

312
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,500
theorem ecosystem, tooling and 
trying to catch up with whatever

313
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:55,000
the latest state of the theorem 
is, and Implement new 

314
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,800
functionalities on top of that. 
So, our Dream our team, which is

315
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:02,200
fir. 
Early small is able to quickly 

316
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,900
adopt and catch up with a 
theorem and Implement all these 

317
00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:09,900
new functionality for the evm, 
for the Moc VM and also 

318
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:13,600
implementing functionality terms
of like to conduct an Amex 

319
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,200
interoperability Etc. 
So we're looking to hire more 

320
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,600
core engineers and also postdoc 
Engineers who can help us like 

321
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:28,300
merge and marry these two 
ecosystem into a single user 

322
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:31,400
experience. 
That is really A smooth for the 

323
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,000
end user. 
Yeah, so let's let's talk about 

324
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,500
this. 
So there's lots of things here. 

325
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:38,100
I think that need to be 
unpacked. 

326
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:42,200
So, you know, the the user 
experience, the ecosystem of 

327
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,800
applications, the types of 
features and you know, you talk 

328
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:52,100
about token, all mix and F. 
Most had a novel approach to 

329
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:54,700
launching the chain, which was 
the wreck drop. 

330
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,200
It's been covered extensively. 
And I don't want to go like too 

331
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,500
much in the details here, but, 
you know, just for I think most 

332
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:06,000
of our listeners will Familiar 
with the fact that there was an 

333
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,600
attempt to launch F, most a 
couple of weeks ago, that 

334
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:15,800
attempt, well, for lack of a 
better term, it failed, and 

335
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,400
we'll get into what happened 
later in the interview. 

336
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,300
But what is the current state of
affairs? 

337
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:32,300
And how, you know, how does this
effect effectively, either the 

338
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,600
The enthusiasm around the 
network launching and have you 

339
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:43,900
seen any evidence that what was 
like like a highly? 

340
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:47,200
I think hyped project with a lot
of enthusiasm. 

341
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,200
Have you seen any evidence that 
that is going away? 

342
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:55,400
Or is the community, you know, 
is the community like confident 

343
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,800
and and sort of supporting you 
in your efforts to relaunch the 

344
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,900
chain. 
The upgrading, as you mentioned,

345
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:07,200
didn't go as smooth as we wanted
to the were like different bugs,

346
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:11,700
especially because of the falak 
of support from different like 

347
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:17,200
Cosmos tools and they were also 
like some edge cases that we had

348
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,200
to handle in terms of IBC 
because now besides having, like

349
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,500
all the functionality on Cosmos,
the functionality on the VM. 

350
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:33,300
We also need to handle all these
edge cases for For IVC, and 

351
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,800
yeah, definitely. 
And I think the hype has lowered

352
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,800
a little bit. 
I am confident that once we 

353
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:47,800
launch again and we stir the 
chain the hypo continue. 

354
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,800
And but mostly because users 
will be able to claim their 

355
00:22:52,800 --> 00:23:00,300
tokens through the dashboard. 
Super easy on will be Be able to

356
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:03,700
like stick their tokens natively
and there are also a lot of 

357
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:08,400
projects already trying to build
on deploy your novels and also 

358
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,900
like a few of them are creating 
Earth, creating a few our jobs. 

359
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:19,000
So that the community can also 
like benefit early on and I 

360
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,200
think the early year, the users 
start to stake on unused or 

361
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:31,500
tokens for lping, it's Etc, the 
quicker, the Hype will return I 

362
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,600
think I guess also been really 
humbling for us for the team. 

363
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,400
So then we're not here for the 
hype but we are also like trying

364
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,600
to build as much as possible and
try to I don't know. 

365
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,900
I improve our processes improve 
the functionality that we want 

366
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:53,600
to bring on ensure that we 
implement the changes on. 

367
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,000
This is one key difference. 
With other evm ecosystems. 

368
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,700
I believe is that we are not 
only talking. 

369
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,700
Chuckling this from like core 
protocol info perspective, like 

370
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:06,800
the infrastructure that supports
this more context, but we're 

371
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,900
also trying to push for products
that and support the protocol. 

372
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:18,100
So like the dashboard, we've 
been closely working with Kepler

373
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,200
in order to support a theorem 
signing. 

374
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,500
We are adding, for example, 
metal mask support for Cosmos 

375
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:30,900
transactions. 
So the users can use There are 

376
00:24:30,908 --> 00:24:33,300
many must wallet with calls 
Missoni theorem. 

377
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,100
So, like trying to create this 
user experience natively on, we 

378
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,400
need to ensure that this is not 
only supported on the protocol 

379
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,900
side, but it's also supported on
the product side. 

380
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:50,400
And I think The the protocol 
itself was ready. 

381
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,300
I think what was missing was 
more Q&A in terms of like the 

382
00:24:54,300 --> 00:25:02,400
tooling and the product itself. 
And how are you doing after all 

383
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,200
this? 
How are you holding up through 

384
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,200
this this ordeal? 
Yeah, what's hard during the 

385
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,700
first week? 
I think. 

386
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:14,200
But our team is also very 
supportive on the community is 

387
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,200
very supportive. 
I think a lot of people were 

388
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,700
like super hyped on. 
Those are the price of the token

389
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:25,100
and whatnot on. 
But for the ones that Noah's and

390
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:29,100
we've we've been working on 
building for so long and we were

391
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:33,400
the only team that was able to 
finally launch this, after more 

392
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,300
than more than six years 
already. 

393
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,200
D. 
So yeah, we went back and 

394
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,000
building to build on and be able
to support this new 

395
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,600
functionalities that we wanted 
to and and and go back to the 

396
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,100
drawing board and test every 
functionality that we wanted. 

397
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:59,000
So I'm yeah, I've been able to 
hold up with the support of 

398
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800
friends family and also, the 
community that is supporting us,

399
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,300
but I think once we restart the 
chain is going to be like the 

400
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:06,800
best user experience. 
See. 

401
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:11,900
Yeah, I'm really well. 
We'll talk about like the launch

402
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:13,700
plan and everything towards the 
end here. 

403
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,700
But yeah, let's let's dive into 
some of the, some of the things 

404
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:25,600
that have most brings in terms 
of innovation to the evm like 

405
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,800
currently or like one the chain 
launches, but then also into the

406
00:26:30,808 --> 00:26:33,000
future and the roadmap for the 
chain. 

407
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,700
Yeah. 
Can you can you break all that 

408
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:41,500
down for us? 
Yeah, so we now have a bunch of 

409
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,800
projects that are looking to 
deploy to have Moses and the 

410
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:51,100
first week or two after 
restarting, including David on 

411
00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:55,000
other Bluetooth projects and we 
have a lot of new projects that 

412
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,000
are deploying into the 
atmosphere ecosystem because 

413
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,200
they saw the potential of like 
the new token to a note of 

414
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600
talking token model that we 
created. 

415
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,700
So there are multiple branches 
in terms of like the future 

416
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:09,400
roadmap that we want to 
implement that one of Is of 

417
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,200
course, called protocol. 
Like, what is the teen going to 

418
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,700
support in the future? 
Besides, just a VM and the 

419
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:20,900
default interoperability that 
Cosmos allows you and then the 

420
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,300
other the other side is like, 
what are we doing in terms of 

421
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:25,800
products, in order to support 
these. 

422
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,300
All these use cases. 
And in terms of their protocol, 

423
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,200
we've been also like working 
closer with Celestia for seven 

424
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,500
months and this is something 
that we're really looking 

425
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:40,000
forward to implement and 
eventually Deploy one celeste's 

426
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,300
ready, which is a settlement 
layer for Celestia Roll-Ups. 

427
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:50,300
So it's basically a roll up on, 
like, supporting evm Roll-Ups 

428
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:55,200
and top of ammos evm. 
And that's one thing. 

429
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,600
The other thing is working on 
interoperability and 

430
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:02,800
interoperability, not only in 
the sense of transferring 

431
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,100
assets. 
We are already through putting 

432
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:12,400
Arc 20 tokens to be transferred.
In and out from the ovens chain,

433
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,100
but we're also looking forward 
to enable interchain 

434
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,100
composability. 
So that chains like some of the 

435
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:23,700
error or region Network who have
specific use cases targeting 

436
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:28,300
defy can directly call Smart 
contracts, deploy, nav nose, and

437
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:31,300
make sense of that data by 
unpacking the events. 

438
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:35,600
And then realizing. 
Okay, like here's here's the 

439
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,400
event data. 
That was logged. 

440
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:41,700
On the oven with smart contract.
What am I going to do with? 

441
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:44,600
And then like they handle like 
specific use cases, like for 

442
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,700
example in some earlier, they 
can rebalance 0p positions or 

443
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:52,400
work directly with Ava. 
So these brings a lot of 

444
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,300
benefits in terms of reduced 
latency. 

445
00:28:55,700 --> 00:29:00,400
If you're using gravity breach 
or any other Bridge existing any

446
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,000
existing Bridge currently 
deployed in the ecosystem 

447
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,600
because IVC will drastically. 
Decrease the latency and then 

448
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:12,500
They the transaction fees will 
be way lower. 

449
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:18,100
So I expect a lot of interest in
this functionality from other 

450
00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:20,800
teams. 
Now, in order to support 

451
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,000
communication directly with 
smart contracts, and that's one 

452
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,400
thing, the other in particular 
is NFD and if the 

453
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,400
interpretability we're also 
working closely with the 

454
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,500
Stargates team in order to 
transfer and FTS from the, from 

455
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:42,700
the CVM into the cosmic 
classroom environment that they 

456
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:46,100
use on. 
So like making in trouble will n

457
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:49,600
FTS. 
It's going to be something huge 

458
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,400
for the rest of the ecosystem 
and for game Phi. 

459
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,500
In particular so that we can 
support application specific, 

460
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,100
block chains or us 
application-specific EVMS that 

461
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:06,900
are directly sharing security 
with Atmos, for example, and 

462
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:11,700
able to directly use this 
functionality to transfer nft 

463
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:15,400
assets. 
And yeah, like that's that's 

464
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,300
more or less what we're doing. 
And in the future. 

465
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:21,600
We're also going to be 
supporting cross chain and ft 

466
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,000
like delegate hauls from one 
chain to another and then Yeah, 

467
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,600
once you once we Implement that 
will be able to share 

468
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,300
composability between evm 
chains. 

469
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,200
So that a chain that is sewn a 
smart contract that is employer 

470
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,900
never most can communicate 
directly with an smart contracts

471
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:42,000
that is employed. 
For example on Kronos or other 

472
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,600
evm chain, that will be deployed
in the future. 

473
00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:50,600
So, I really want to dive into 
this in this interoperability 

474
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,300
aspect because I think there's 
different components of it that 

475
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,500
maybe at least, I don't fully 
understand. 

476
00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:02,100
So if you're used to using, if 
you're used to using sort of 

477
00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:07,500
that could be entertained or IBC
assets, you can move assets from

478
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,600
one chain to the other. 
So if you have assets on you 

479
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,500
have a like Adams, you could 
move those atoms over to, to 

480
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,900
osmosis for Students and then 
those atoms live there and then 

481
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:20,000
you can move them back to 
another. 

482
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,700
So from the user perspective. 
It's seamless and I think people

483
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:26,600
kind of understand that once 
they've used that. 

484
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,500
What's that going to look like 
forever most? 

485
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,900
So I prefer the way I'm thinking
about is like, okay, so you'll 

486
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:39,100
be able to move assets. 
Outside of f most, but these are

487
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:45,900
not IBC assets or like Arc 20 
tokens or kind of evm tokens. 

488
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:51,800
And then what's the interaction 
with other evm. 

489
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:58,300
So what, you know, etherium or 
polygon, or what, how does that,

490
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:01,000
how does have most create 
interoperability also with those

491
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,900
chains? 
So the evolution durability 

492
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,900
components are ya. 
There? 

493
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,100
Are there multiple on the main 
one? 

494
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:17,400
Of course, it's IVC in the in 
the cosmos ecosystem. 

495
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,700
So obviously allows us, as you 
mentioned to transfer native 

496
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:24,900
assets from the cosmos offer 
much Moses, directly into the 

497
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,500
nose. 
But unfortunately, the native 

498
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,800
functionality for of IVC doesn't
allow conversions of those too. 

499
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:42,300
Runs directly to the Moc VM. 
So you need to create sort of 

500
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:48,600
like a mapping between like your
see 20 tokens on Cosmos IVC 

501
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,500
tokens. 
So for example, like a cosmos 

502
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:57,900
Hub atom or an osmosis token, 
that is been the husband took 

503
00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:01,200
transfer over vivc. 
How do you represent? 

504
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,100
Now those tokens within the VM 
on how then those tokens are 

505
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:07,300
bridge over, which is a second 
component. 

506
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:11,600
I want to talk about, Are those 
tokens now, reach over through 

507
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,800
their ears, E20 representation 
to other chains and that's going

508
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,300
to be through Nomad and connects
and other bridges that we are 

509
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:25,400
deploying on Atmos. 
So we're going to see an influx 

510
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,300
of all these years. 
It's 20 tokens, from all these 

511
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:36,500
different chains, polygon, 
Avalanche, and if you remove 

512
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:41,300
course, Moon River and Moon Beam
to the Elmo's on Cosmos 

513
00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:44,900
ecosystem and then those tokens 
still see your C. 20 tokens will

514
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:50,400
be able to be converted to the 
cosmos IVC representation, so 

515
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,900
that they can be transferred 
over to Cosmos Alborz Moses. 

516
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,900
So it's going to create a lot of
liquidity. 

517
00:33:56,900 --> 00:34:01,200
So we expect of them has to 
become the main point of entry 

518
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,900
from all the evm ecosystem, for 
all these assets to come through

519
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:08,699
these ridges. 
To have a nose. 

520
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,100
And then through this 
functionality, that we are 

521
00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:13,600
allowing these years to 20 
tokens to be converted. 

522
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:18,900
Those tokens will now be able to
be transferred via IV C to their

523
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:22,300
rest of the cosmos ecosystem. 
Okay. 

524
00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,800
So let's just take an example 
here. 

525
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:35,100
Let's say I have USD see, on, on
on ethereum or even polygon any 

526
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:40,300
EDM chain that supports USD see,
I'll have to move those through 

527
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,400
a bridge, which will be either. 
So the right now, you've talked 

528
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,800
about Nomad and connects. 
So, those are two separate 

529
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,400
bridges. 
That will be evm, have most 

530
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,100
compatible move those assets 
into F. 

531
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:58,700
Most and then from there, you 
can take those USD, see assets. 

532
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:04,900
There is a, some sort of 
conversion that happens that you

533
00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:12,900
allows you to move them into the
native interchain assets that 

534
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,800
were all used to moving around. 
It's like changing the address 

535
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,500
form on more or less. 
Your, you're changing the format

536
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:24,000
for how the token is represented
on chain either. 

537
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:27,100
Like any or C. 20 token for 
might always have caused most 

538
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:31,400
open format. 
Okay, and will those be fungible

539
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:34,500
like say you move from from 
connects or remove them from? 

540
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:36,500
No bad? 
Are those going to be fungible? 

541
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,900
Once they're in that enough MOS?
Yeah, so there is no direct 

542
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:45,000
mopping. 
So governance are proved to 

543
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,100
compare so that the patrol a is 
just a mapping between the 

544
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:52,600
Cosmos on the years in 2007. 
So the there's only one 

545
00:35:52,600 --> 00:36:01,900
canonical representation for say
w eith on a theorem for you SEC,

546
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:08,700
so that there's like only one 
token so that this ensures 

547
00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:12,300
should fungibility. 
And then this token will be able

548
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:16,400
to be transferred via ABC to 
other chances. 

549
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,400
Okay, and it's fungibility also 
insured. 

550
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:25,800
So they're insured via these two
Bridges, but is it insert like 

551
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,300
is it is a polygon u.s. 
DC or a polygon wrapped 

552
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:35,300
e-equivalent, or, and fungible 
to a etherium wrap teeth. 

553
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:41,300
Once it arrives in Atmos or 
those still kind of separate 

554
00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:47,200
tokens. 
So then they fungibility needs 

555
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,500
to be fungibility between like 
the all these Bridges is 

556
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:54,200
something that we're currently 
working with multiple teams 

557
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:58,300
frocks is already working. 
It's also deploying on ever 

558
00:36:58,300 --> 00:37:01,500
most. 
And so, yeah, like, as you 

559
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,200
mentioned, there are going to be
like multiple Bridges. 

560
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,000
It's the same. 
As, with the same, as the 

561
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,300
problem with IVC and 
fungibility, when you relay the 

562
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:13,600
same token, be a moat, be a 
different sort of like, IVC 

563
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,800
route. 
The tokens are not fungible 

564
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,100
because there are different 
security guarantees in. 

565
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:22,600
All these different chains of 
the token has passed through, so

566
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:29,200
that someone needs to basically 
assume the risk and having 

567
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,100
wouldn't say like a canonical 
Bridge because it's all 

568
00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:35,400
maintained by the team, but 
there's like a prefer way of 

569
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,400
routing. 
All these different chains, has 

570
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,300
different options on security 
levels also helps. 

571
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,400
In terms of fungibility. 
I would expect different also 

572
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,700
like D5. 
Protocols State like curve or I 

573
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:52,200
think it's Kinesis the name of 
the project that is also going 

574
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,000
to do like stable shot State. 
A stable cornet. 

575
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:02,100
Mmm. 
So yeah to handle all of these 

576
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,800
fungibility issue. 
Yeah, I was talking to the 

577
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,700
Kinesis guys the other day and 
it seems like they want to 

578
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,300
address this fungibility issue 
which exists it's independent of

579
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:17,100
utmost. 
Right? 

580
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:22,400
If this exists already in the 
theorem ecosystem and there was 

581
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,200
some debate, you know around I 
think it was a couple months ago

582
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:32,100
where I like about which Bridges
should be should be allowed on 

583
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:38,600
osmosis and Sonny waiting with 
like his opinion, which was we 

584
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,100
need to limit or like, at least 
for now. 

585
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:47,100
We can't create an experience 
where there's all these 

586
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:49,500
representations of the same 
assets, which creates like a 

587
00:38:49,508 --> 00:38:53,000
user experience that's degraded 
for for end users. 

588
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,500
Like we've seen on a theory of 
Right, Where You have like 20 

589
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:59,700
different representations of USD
assets. 

590
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:04,300
For example, like, on the same 
on the same liquidy pool. 

591
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:07,800
Like in the same like on you to 
stop for instance. 

592
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:10,900
So why are there two Bridges 
why? 

593
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:13,700
No Madden connection? 
Why not like a canonical Bridge?

594
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,900
So no man, I'm connector able to
provide it's sort of like the 

595
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:24,100
same breach under like 
underlying Bridge. 

596
00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:27,800
It's connected using like no 
matter infrastructure, but there

597
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:33,200
are different options for in 
terms of speed of the transfer 

598
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,100
in terms of like because it's an
optimistic bridge and you're 

599
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:42,800
different like pros and cons of 
using like an optimistic bridge 

600
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,800
in terms of latency or like how 
like If the transaction is 

601
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,300
optimistic, and then you have 
these period and that you can 

602
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,600
that you can challenge basically
transfer. 

603
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,600
So they're they're more or less 
two sides of the same coin. 

604
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,200
In terms of like using the same 
infrastructure by offering 

605
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,200
different like options to a 
user. 

606
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:15,400
Okay, and we'll what about the 
interchain accounts and the 

607
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:21,700
ability for? 
Like it an address on like on 

608
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:26,500
Cosmos or on osmosis to control 
addresses and smart contracts on

609
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:29,000
F. 
Most what, what is that going to

610
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,600
be possible? 
And what kinds of things is that

611
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,500
allow? 
Yeah, so intergenic on says it's

612
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:38,600
a functionality that we're 
really interesting to work on. 

613
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,700
We wanted to implement it for 
for maintenance. 

614
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:45,900
But unfortunately, they're the 
IVC release Watson ready. 

615
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,900
So one of the cool things that 
we want is aboard. 

616
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:53,200
A for example, you have all 
these funds, all these 

617
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,400
evaluators thought have tons of 
items tones of osmosis and other

618
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,900
chain another tokens, but how 
You how do you manage to can 

619
00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:08,500
safely in an organization right 
now? 

620
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:14,200
And on Cosmos, you need to 
create a multisig like a two out

621
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,400
of three and there's no UI 
foreign. 

622
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,200
If you've used them costumes 
multisig, you know, the pains 

623
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,000
that I'm that I'm the man that 
I'm explaining to you right now 

624
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:30,900
because it's really hard. 
We even we've been core core 

625
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:33,500
contributors and core Engineers 
have the Costumes because it's 

626
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:36,700
in for a while now. 
And even us we have an eternal 

627
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:40,900
God of how to make our buns for 
with the cosmos. 

628
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,400
Multisig, which only is 
supported on the terminal CLI. 

629
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,000
Yeah, this is this is a this is 
a huge pain point. 

630
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,600
I think in Cosmo has a huge fan 
for. 

631
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:56,200
Yeah, and one of the big things 
that we want to support as for 

632
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:01,800
accounts on the costumes have on
as Moses to be able to manage 

633
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:06,300
and Acetone on, for example, in 
diagnosis multisig. 

634
00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:10,700
So you can have the same assets 
and you can just use hypnosis 

635
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:15,900
multisig for everything and 
manage your Kosmos, coins. 

636
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:20,200
Your your, osmosis your Embassy 
or she 20s. 

637
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,100
And yeah, like I've most tokens 
to swallow, so it's going to be 

638
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:28,600
like improving. 
The user experience is something

639
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,200
that we really care about and 
using all these 

640
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,800
interoperability. 
These two also benefit the rest 

641
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,800
of the cosmos ecosystem. 
I think it's going to be like a 

642
00:42:37,808 --> 00:42:42,500
key component here. 
Yeah, that mean that being able 

643
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:46,700
to use a product like noses 
multisig on on Cosmos, would be 

644
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:49,000
just like, amazing. 
I think, you know, they've 

645
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,800
really nailed the multisig ux 
and, and feature set. 

646
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,200
And I mean, I'm also kind of 
surprised that no one's built 

647
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,900
this already on on Cosmos. 
Maybe it'll come. 

648
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:06,700
I mean, like, you get guys 
working on Dow Dow and there's 

649
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:12,300
like some Multisig there, but 
it's kind of clunky still in the

650
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:16,700
you x's and grade and you can't 
add addresses and the potential 

651
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:19,500
is there. 
But it's it's not it's not a 

652
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:22,600
production product. 
Yeah, I think you can in the 

653
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,400
contracts but like the contract 
support those calls, but you 

654
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:31,200
still have to do that, command 
line thing to get that to work. 

655
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,500
Yeah. 
So what will be the D Phi 

656
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:37,600
component? 
Like what kind of defy 

657
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,300
applications will be? 
Also have most you mentioned Ave

658
00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:47,200
earlier, but are their native 
projects that are anticipated to

659
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,800
launch their. 
And I think the broadly what 

660
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,200
would be the defy experience on 
Atmos? 

661
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,800
And how will it be different 
from what we're used to in 

662
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:02,200
aetherium and and maybe how is 
it different from osmosis? 

663
00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:07,400
What does it bring to the table?
For the team is more or less the

664
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,800
same, but now it enables them 
to. 

665
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:19,100
So for all of these chains to 
oxes the token directly via IV c

666
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,500
1 for the token to be 
transferred over the IBC, which 

667
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,700
also provides more liquidity to 
the project. 

668
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,700
These are only you have the 
token model that allows users 

669
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:34,700
and users for these all these 
protocols to spend 50% of the 

670
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:39,700
transaction fee. 
And those 50 percent transaction

671
00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:42,900
fee goes to the monitors and 50%
of the transaction fee goes to 

672
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:49,300
the develop the developer team. 
So the contract owners and so 

673
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:54,700
like that is evil to fund 
additional sources like a 

674
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:56,600
provide additional funding for 
the team. 

675
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,400
That's more like a like why is 
it better? 

676
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,100
It tabled? 
It has lower transaction fees. 

677
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,900
He has additional liquidity. 
Ali services, so from all these 

678
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:14,100
evm chains and also from the 
cosmos ecosystem and with the 

679
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:17,100
new interchange composability 
component. 

680
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:21,500
As I mentioned before, other 
chains will be directly. 

681
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,800
Able to interact with this Mark 
on Jack's vivc. 

682
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,500
And also, this Mark on trucks, 
on every Mo's will be able to 

683
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:33,800
call at the other smart, 
contracts that are supported on 

684
00:45:33,808 --> 00:45:36,800
the evm on the FM receiver. 
On other chains. 

685
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,800
For example, so you don't need 
you. 

686
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,900
No need to fragment 
composability at all. 

687
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,400
Okay, got it. 
The the one thing I remember 

688
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:56,100
hearing about but I forgot is 
that transaction fees can go in 

689
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:00,000
in a defy application on F. 
Most transaction fees can go to 

690
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,100
the liquidity provider, but they
can also go to our sorry, no 

691
00:46:04,100 --> 00:46:06,300
transaction fees, but the swap 
fees can also go to the 

692
00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:12,600
validator. 
Yeah, so the the key thing here 

693
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,200
is normally only theorem on this
is this is also a key difference

694
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,400
with the rest of the VM 
ecosystem is oniy. 

695
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,500
Theorem on other evm ecosystems.
If you are paying the 

696
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:25,800
transaction fee, that 
transaction fee is going 

697
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,200
directly to the blog proposer, 
either the minor or the 

698
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,700
validator. 
Here. 

699
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:35,200
Instead. 
The main difference is that 50% 

700
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,400
goes to the developer? 
And then 50% goes to the blog 

701
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,900
propulsion to the developer, 
right to the developer of the of

702
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:45,600
the small of the contract of the
contract. 

703
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,300
Yeah. 
Yes. 

704
00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:51,900
What these to create effectively
is decentralized Market, planes 

705
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:55,300
and decentralized App Store were
the users that are interacting 

706
00:46:55,300 --> 00:47:00,500
with a with the product with a 
defy application are paying 50%.

707
00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:05,200
Transaction fee to the developer
and 50% of the transaction fee 

708
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,500
to the block propulsor. 
And it's not that they are 

709
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:12,100
paying an extra 50% is just that
the fee that they're already 

710
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:15,700
paying same as the theorem or 
other evm. 

711
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:19,800
Chains is now being split 
between the two like the two 

712
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,800
organizations or the other, the 
developer on the Block 

713
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,600
propulsion, what this ensures 
like alignment. 

714
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:33,800
With the their protocol itself, 
so that divider still get the 

715
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:37,600
rewards that they are generated 
during the validation of the 

716
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,800
protocol and proof of stake. 
Plus they give 50% of the 

717
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,400
transaction fees. 
But now you're also 

718
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,600
incentivizing all these 
developers to calm deploy their 

719
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,600
obligations. 
You have mass and this great 

720
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,800
larger. 
It's like chicken and egg 

721
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,100
problem. 
Like, how do you incent? 

722
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,300
How do you bring in more users? 
If there are no applications and

723
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,400
through this? 
You're also incentivizing new 

724
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:05,200
developers to come in and deploy
through these what we called. 

725
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:11,900
App Store model. 
So this is a really Natan novel 

726
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,000
think functionality in 
blockchain is generally. 

727
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,700
I don't think that there's any 
other chain that does this, 

728
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:21,500
where the smart contract 
developer is also remunerated 

729
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:26,600
for transaction fees. 
Do you think this is something 

730
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,600
that other chains will adopt 
like, is this something that you

731
00:48:31,607 --> 00:48:35,400
could see kind of spreading in 
the evm ecosystem as well? 

732
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:43,000
Yeah, I think there are a lot 
of, I mean, so if you think 

733
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,700
about the way of funding a team 
right now. 

734
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:53,500
The teams either raise funding 
for the company, like 

735
00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:56,600
traditional sources of funding, 
go to VC. 

736
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:02,800
Go to like early Angel Investors
and they provide like, yeah, 

737
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,300
they delude themselves in order 
to attract new investors. 

738
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,700
And then you also have like the 
token model where they launched 

739
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:15,100
a new token and they distribute 
that and the team holds a large 

740
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:20,700
percentage of the Logan. 
But if you think about it, 

741
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:28,200
hasn't been like a sustainable 
long-term sustainable funding 

742
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:34,000
mechanism, that is directly 
correlated with the usage of the

743
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,600
application. 
So the more users interact with 

744
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,300
the application here on Eva 
knows, the more transaction 

745
00:49:41,300 --> 00:49:46,000
fees, the developer will get. 
So it's a long sustainable. 

746
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,700
I need Anything parallel to 
these two other funding models 

747
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:53,200
that I mentioned before. 
But it's a more like it's a 

748
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,900
healthier one in the long term 
because it's a, it allows you to

749
00:49:57,100 --> 00:50:02,500
generate continuous Revenue to 
the developer team. 

750
00:50:04,100 --> 00:50:05,900
Yeah, I'd like totally changes 
the economics. 

751
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:10,600
I think for the developer team 
and when a developer launches a 

752
00:50:10,607 --> 00:50:16,000
contract are these are these 
parameters that you can set say,

753
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,000
Okay. 
I want to take like 50% or I can

754
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,600
take less or like, if I don't 
want to have any other 

755
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,100
transaction like, you know, 
different different. 

756
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:30,000
Different contracts might have 
different ideas about how these 

757
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,700
fees should be, repetition 
between the minors. 

758
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:38,700
Or the validators and the, and 
the contracts or the teams it is

759
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:41,600
this like by default or is it 
something that you can set up? 

760
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:48,700
Yeah, so it's set by default or 
like this is something that we 

761
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:52,800
need to, we need to still 
analyze with with the core team.

762
00:50:53,700 --> 00:50:57,000
But for now the current 
specification that we have it 

763
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,300
set in by default, but what you 
can do as a developer is, if you

764
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:05,100
don't want to actually earn 
these rewards, you can set the 

765
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:09,700
address that you want to instead
of you, the developer team, 

766
00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:11,800
receiving 50 percent of the 
transaction fees. 

767
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:17,600
You could redirect those tokens 
to the community pool if you 

768
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,300
want. 
Or to the voters itself. 

769
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,800
So you can get the validator 
audra's and then reward divider.

770
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:32,200
Or if you want to I'll get those
tokens to like the entire pool 

771
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,600
evaluators. 
You can also distribute them to 

772
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,400
entire pool violators. 
So during different options here

773
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:43,800
and you can even you can even 
like Set another contract 

774
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:49,500
developer address, or find 
another contract through this 

775
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:51,200
mechanism. 
Yeah, or you could find some 

776
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,700
charity or something Stockman, 
and that's totally up to the 

777
00:51:55,700 --> 00:51:58,700
developer, and they can change 
the address whenever they want. 

778
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,200
Does does that D? 
I mean, do you think that? 

779
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,500
So let's say we have developer 
because then you you it seems 

780
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:11,600
like you get in this situation 
where developers are competing 

781
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,400
also for their transactions to 
get processed. 

782
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:23,400
So like if a developer is 
awarding more of the transaction

783
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,500
fees to the validator. 
So we're getting less 

784
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:27,100
transaction sheets for 
themselves. 

785
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:30,500
Then there may be Be an 
incentive for those transactions

786
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:34,300
to go through first. 
Is that, because, that's 

787
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:37,300
something that is, is taken into
account here? 

788
00:52:37,300 --> 00:52:39,200
Or is that not really come into 
play? 

789
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:46,100
So at the moment the transit the
tender moment mempool only 

790
00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:50,200
supports first in first out 
queue. 

791
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:58,300
So you send a transaction with 
say 100 tokens in fees and then 

792
00:52:58,300 --> 00:53:01,600
you send a transaction with 1000
tokens in fees. 

793
00:53:02,100 --> 00:53:06,200
The one that was processed 
before is actually executed 

794
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:12,500
before unless you run some like 
Fork of tender moment where you 

795
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:16,400
modify the mental internals 
completely. 

796
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:22,700
It's not currently supported but
I think the next major tender 

797
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:26,400
man version is supporting like 
Fortescue and we'll definitely 

798
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,800
need to take that into account 
by the current. 

799
00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:30,500
The current model doesn't 
supported. 

800
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:35,200
Straight ahead. 
And but yeah, this is something 

801
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,900
well depending when these 
functionalities released will 

802
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:41,900
need to take into account. 
So if we if we deploy this 

803
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:45,300
functionality first, we don't 
need to account for these 

804
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:50,900
particular case, but once we 
want to upgrade to the latest 

805
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,200
tender moment, version will have
to, we'll have to consider this 

806
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,900
for sure. 
Okay. 

807
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:00,600
Yeah. 
And what other kinds of 

808
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:05,800
innovative things is at most 
that are integrated and have 

809
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,700
most that don't exist in other 
evm chains or what other 

810
00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:12,900
Innovative things that are, are 
you implementing in the token 

811
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:18,200
model? 
So, the other Innovative thing 

812
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:24,400
that we took from existing defy 
applications is the concept of 

813
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,700
usage rewards. 
So if you read the wreck drop 

814
00:54:29,700 --> 00:54:36,000
token model, you can see that we
are drop tokens to users on a 

815
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,700
theorem based on the gas that 
they've spent, which is called 

816
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:43,300
the gospel of model and the more
you spend on gas on different 

817
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:45,100
contracts, and more tokens 
again. 

818
00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:51,700
Her jaw. 
And so we wanted to implement 

819
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:55,400
this on the protocol level for 
users, that interact natively 

820
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,100
with different contract. 
So what we're doing is taking 

821
00:54:59,100 --> 00:55:02,300
the up incentive model that is 
Moses has. 

822
00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:04,900
So like incentivizing the 
liquidity pools. 

823
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,000
We're implementing this, but for
smart contract, so the more gas 

824
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,700
you spent on Smart contracts, 
the more usage rewards you 

825
00:55:13,700 --> 00:55:16,600
again, so you're in sin. 
Devising certain contracts. 

826
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:20,200
So for example, bridging could 
be incentivized or a ma'am swaps

827
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,300
could be in C. 
Or like I don't know like an NF 

828
00:55:23,300 --> 00:55:24,400
T. 
Marketplace could be 

829
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,700
incentivized and this is all 
Buddha through governance. 

830
00:55:27,700 --> 00:55:32,200
So the community boats for which
are going to be the contracts 

831
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,800
that are going to be 
incentivized. 

832
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:39,700
Yeah, you define a number of 
weeks that you want these 

833
00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:45,100
incentives to run on then you? 
Yeah, you're basically 

834
00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:49,000
Incentivizing on all the users 
that in truck with this 

835
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,200
contract. 
So it's going to be like a 

836
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,800
growth hoc mechanism. 
Because now if you have these 

837
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,600
contact disincentivize and also 
the developers are getting 

838
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:04,400
transaction fees, the users are 
getting tokens just for using 

839
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,100
the application but there are 
paying with a transaction fees, 

840
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:11,800
right? 
And then half of those 

841
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,700
transaction field will go 
directly to the developer team 

842
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:17,400
which Will attract more 
developers, more contracts, and 

843
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,100
incentivize and more users 
interact with their protocol 

844
00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:21,700
itself. 
So it's creating a positive 

845
00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:26,000
reinforcement cycle in which you
are attracting more developers 

846
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:32,200
and more users over time. 
So, you know, are you confident 

847
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:40,100
that have most will also act as 
a growth hacking mechanism for 

848
00:56:40,100 --> 00:56:45,300
The Interchange IBC ecosystem? 
Because like, you know as a 

849
00:56:45,308 --> 00:56:48,900
developer, it makes sense to go 
deploy your contract. 

850
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:51,500
There. 
There's going to be a number of 

851
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:57,600
Blue Chip number of Blue Chip 
etherium. 

852
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:02,000
Adapts the organ to deploy their
like Hobbies, one of them, the 

853
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,500
liquidity. 
They'll be pretty seamless to 

854
00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:07,500
move liquidity in and out of f 
MOS. 

855
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:10,800
Yeah. 
Kepler is proposed or dead 

856
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,300
natively with the theorems. 
Meaning metal mouth is supported

857
00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:19,400
natively with traditionally 
theorem signing plus costume. 

858
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,900
Assigning transactions through 
efp 712, which is a meta 

859
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:26,200
transaction standards for now 
with meta Mouse. 

860
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,700
You can sign IVC So, you know 
need to add any new 

861
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:34,200
functionality to the existing 
project or two on your existing 

862
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,900
client. 
You just need to to porn be 712 

863
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,100
if you are using like a UI, for 
example, yeah, I think it's 

864
00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:46,700
going to be huge for the 
ecosystem because attracting new

865
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:50,500
developers and new product a new
projects in general. 

866
00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:53,600
A new users that are native from
the theorem ecosystem. 

867
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:58,000
So they're going to attract more
tokens more use cases for Or the

868
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,100
interchain ecosystem. 
Yeah, I was part of the core IVC

869
00:58:02,100 --> 00:58:06,900
team and we're close with other 
teams in the ecosystem. 

870
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:09,800
So all these functionality that 
is going to be the poor and 

871
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,700
everyone else is going to be 
available to the entire Cosmos. 

872
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:18,300
You can system throughout DC. 
And this is something that we're

873
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:21,100
not going to try to. 
For example, like capture all 

874
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:24,900
these value only for the F most 
chain, but we want all, these 

875
00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:27,600
are all these equality to come 
into the cost. 

876
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,900
Speaker system. 
All these different use cases to

877
00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:34,600
come into the cosmos ecosystem. 
All these new functionality from

878
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,300
the etherium tool, use from 
these e, theorem tooling that 

879
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:41,400
already works. 
And is already supported by 

880
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:46,800
multiple teams is going to be 
available for like the one that 

881
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,600
I explain whether multisig is 
going to be available for the 

882
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,300
rest of the costumes, ecosystem 
through interchain accounts. 

883
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:58,600
For example. 
Yeah, it all of the Dow tooling 

884
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:03,200
and all, I mean all the yeah, I 
mean, it's just like solidity in

885
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,300
the evm. 
Have such an advanced. 

886
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:09,100
I think I like any other other 
blockchain in terms of tooling. 

887
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,100
Yeah, and I think this makes so 
much sense. 

888
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:20,000
And something I tweeted about 
just before the call and we're 

889
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,500
really excited to work on as 
creating like a product for new 

890
00:59:26,500 --> 00:59:30,100
project to make it super easy to
deploy contracts. 

891
00:59:32,100 --> 00:59:38,200
To adamo's but also, but also 
are dropping new tokens to as 

892
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,700
most acres to gas, guzzler 
contract. 

893
00:59:41,700 --> 00:59:44,600
So the same that we implemented 
for the cross drop on the 

894
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,600
record. 
Romek director up will be 

895
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:51,300
available for users to just like
select those parameters filter, 

896
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:53,800
the content like select some 
filters. 

897
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:58,100
Like, leave out some centralized
exchanges. 

898
00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:01,500
So like that, few valid or say 
one set up minimum my mom. 

899
01:00:01,700 --> 01:00:04,800
Set up a minimum amount of gas. 
Say one select, IVC 

900
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,100
transactions, governance 
participation and then you get a

901
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:13,700
CSV file or like an Excel 
spreadsheet with all the 

902
01:00:13,700 --> 01:00:17,800
information of all the addresses
that is publicly verified 

903
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:20,800
because you will also get the 
amount of the list, of course, 

904
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,000
so you can also run manually in 
order to verify this and then 

905
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,800
you will be able to urge all the
tokens directly to those 

906
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:34,000
addresses by by using it. 
Directly on the, on the evm. 

907
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:37,300
Okay, this is this is this, this
is here. 

908
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:42,000
So, I mean you essentially, 
you've got to build all of this 

909
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,300
data, scraping infrastructure to
do this. 

910
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:46,500
Right? 
I mean, this is a centralized 

911
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:49,700
tool that you're describing. 
It's not a, it's not a non chain

912
01:00:49,700 --> 01:00:53,200
tool. 
Yeah, it's essentialist. 

913
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,600
It's it's basically, it's 
basically the mechanism that we 

914
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,700
implemented already for the 
wreck drop, but turning it into 

915
01:01:01,700 --> 01:01:05,700
a product, not only for 
ourselves because we already 

916
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:07,700
implemented the director of 
mechanism. 

917
01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:13,900
And we also already selected, 
the contracts, the users from 

918
01:01:13,900 --> 01:01:19,500
the had staked on osmosis, from 
Cosmos Hobbit cetera, but we are

919
01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:24,200
also supporting this. 
Mechanism for new projects. 

920
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,500
I wanted to plug to ever most to
be able to use this tool without

921
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:34,000
any likeness without thinking 
without just spending months and

922
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,300
months thing to like selecting 
the contracts and stuff. 

923
01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:38,500
You just need to select the 
contact address. 

924
01:01:38,500 --> 01:01:40,900
You just need to select like, 
oh, what's the minimum amount of

925
01:01:40,908 --> 01:01:44,800
gas that I want? 
And then you can run these query

926
01:01:45,300 --> 01:01:49,500
bigquery, of course, and then 
you get all these addresses and 

927
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:52,100
you get the amount of tokens 
that you won because As you're 

928
01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:55,700
also being putting the, you also
provide the in as an input into 

929
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:58,600
the amount of tokens that you 
want and then you, yeah, you 

930
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,600
just get the addresses. 
Okay. 

931
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,700
That's, that's interesting. 
I mean, that's that's it. 

932
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,700
That's, that's a product that 
you could, you could probably, 

933
01:02:05,700 --> 01:02:10,600
you know, charge for like a as a
separate as a, even like a 

934
01:02:10,607 --> 01:02:14,500
separate product. 
So, you know, I I want to, I 

935
01:02:14,508 --> 01:02:17,700
want to zoom out a little bit 
and talk a little talk about the

936
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:21,600
interchain smart contract 
landscape, if you will. 

937
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,700
You know, there is like, autism 
autism has a decent decent size 

938
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:31,100
foot hole. 
I think in the cosmos ecosystem,

939
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:35,700
with Juno being one of the main 
chains where people can deploy 

940
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:39,700
as causal modeling contracts. 
Other chains are also 

941
01:02:39,700 --> 01:02:41,200
implementing kazem. 
Awesome. 

942
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:46,200
Yeah, Tara Moses. 
Yeah, Tara samosas Club, I think

943
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:50,500
is probably also going to do it 
at some point or keychain. 

944
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,200
You know, then we have a gorak 
that a lot of people are very 

945
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:01,900
excited about and now F MOS. 
I don't know. 

946
01:03:01,900 --> 01:03:08,000
I mean my feeling is that this 
fragmentation it could go either

947
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,700
way. 
Like I mean the fragmentation 

948
01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:13,300
could be good for the ecosystem 
because it creates a lot of 

949
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:18,500
different types of applications 
you use cases, but I think that 

950
01:03:18,500 --> 01:03:24,000
alignment also helps accelerate.
Development because everyone is 

951
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:29,800
kind of focused in on one thing 
and my, my thinking around, this

952
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:35,600
is as the ecosystem gets bigger.
And lots of new people come 

953
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:39,300
into, the ecosystem is this 
bizarre approach that Cosmos is 

954
01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:47,000
always kind of stood by going to
work in creating a like a 

955
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,600
competitive ecosystem, where 
people can actually like an 

956
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,300
ecosystem that can compete with 
the likes of Solon. 

957
01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:56,900
And the theory. 
Mm, and some of the other bigger

958
01:03:56,900 --> 01:04:01,200
ones. 
Thing, a lot of these chains 

959
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,900
will specialize in different use
cases. 

960
01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:09,400
You have, of course, the base 
layer infrastructure, like the 

961
01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:14,600
like, the Admirals, Juno's, Etc,
but you will also see, like 

962
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:19,100
application-specific chains that
have BMS that are specifically 

963
01:04:19,100 --> 01:04:23,000
targeting a use cage, like a 
samosas calls from awesome. 

964
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,700
Environment is probably not 
going to support say. 

965
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:34,900
I don't know random governance 
smart contracts or whatever like

966
01:04:34,900 --> 01:04:39,000
and if these necessarily is 
that's going to be probably 

967
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:43,300
stargaze but it's on this Moses 
is going to have Cosmos from 

968
01:04:43,300 --> 01:04:47,800
environment for for only defy. 
So it's kind of like even though

969
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,800
they have like the same 
application underlying 

970
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,800
application. 
They're kind of like narrowing 

971
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,900
down on the use case according 
to what they're already 

972
01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:02,200
implementing on their chain. 
That being said, I think there's

973
01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:06,400
there's also going to be 
alignment between all these 

974
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,400
different protocols through IV. 
See. 

975
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,100
Even the even the the ones that 
are not necessarily have the 

976
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:17,800
same runtime like or same VM 
like Cosmos me money. 

977
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,800
On every most that implements a 
VM. 

978
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:26,000
So once we implement the 
functionality for smart 

979
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:30,400
contracts on Atmos to call Smart
contracts and you know, for any 

980
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:34,600
calls from awesome chain. 
Like the collaboration. 

981
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,800
We're currently working with 
stargaze for enough DS is going 

982
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,400
to be huge because then you'll 
have the same standard for 

983
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,800
calling smart contracts on both 
chains. 

984
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:48,900
And that's going to be creating 
huge alignment where the chains 

985
01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:51,400
now don't actually need to 
compete necessarily, but they 

986
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,500
can also access the benefits 
from the other counterparty 

987
01:05:55,500 --> 01:06:01,200
chains that are that they're 
connected to So there will be so

988
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:07,200
no matter what the underlying 
runtime is accounts on the 

989
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,700
Entertainer, going to be able to
control contracts, regardless of

990
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:13,700
what the runtime is, what you're
saying. 

991
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:18,300
Yeah, they will be able like 
context from the VM will be able

992
01:06:18,300 --> 01:06:21,200
to call contracts on the cosmos 
among vice versa. 

993
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:27,700
I think assets like tw20 or 
which is cost Investment Group. 

994
01:06:27,700 --> 01:06:31,200
Sensation of tokens are going to
be compatible with your C20 

995
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,300
Sunday. 
Evm on. 

996
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:38,400
Both of them are also going to 
be compatible with the cosmos 

997
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:42,900
token for run. 
So the like creating a sender 

998
01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:45,100
ization and creating like 
interoperability. 

999
01:06:45,300 --> 01:06:47,500
Opponent switch between all 
these different runtimes and 

1000
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:50,300
EVMS. 
Those are going to help solve 

1001
01:06:50,700 --> 01:06:55,100
many use cases and it's going to
be able to provide more 

1002
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,100
functionalities like and and 
something that we haven't even 

1003
01:06:59,100 --> 01:07:01,500
talked about is like interchange
farming. 

1004
01:07:01,900 --> 01:07:07,400
So farming on the interchain is 
something that I'm particular, 

1005
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:14,400
very particularly very very 
interested in and it's a model 

1006
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,300
that equal. 
Well, entertained, workflows 

1007
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:21,800
where you set up a workflow for 
one contract to be called. 

1008
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,600
And one chain, which calls 
another contract on another 

1009
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,800
chain or interacts, with osmosis
or whatever. 

1010
01:07:28,100 --> 01:07:32,700
You create the, you get the lp 
pools and then you're creating 

1011
01:07:32,700 --> 01:07:38,800
the same hype that you had any 
theorem and 2020 with D5 

1012
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,000
farming. 
But you will now expanding that 

1013
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,100
to entertain because of the 
interoperability and that is 

1014
01:07:46,100 --> 01:07:48,300
going to be huge that is going 
to be huge. 

1015
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:50,900
And in order for us to support 
these use cases. 

1016
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,200
We need to provide 
interoperability between these 

1017
01:07:54,200 --> 01:08:00,900
different events, different VMS.
And this is something I like. 

1018
01:08:00,900 --> 01:08:03,600
Our team is personally really 
excited to work with and and 

1019
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,600
happy to work with any other 
team. 

1020
01:08:05,900 --> 01:08:09,200
That's why we don't see like, 
for example, Juno or any other 

1021
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,700
Watson chain us like competitors
or anything. 

1022
01:08:13,100 --> 01:08:18,000
Like if you we are able to reach
assets, unreached contracts 

1023
01:08:18,899 --> 01:08:22,300
through IV. 
See it's going to create so much

1024
01:08:22,500 --> 01:08:25,100
so many opportunities for all 
day and users. 

1025
01:08:27,700 --> 01:08:33,000
Yeah, I mean, I I fully, I fully
am, I'm fully on board with the 

1026
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,800
idea that interoperability just 
creates more value everywhere 

1027
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:41,899
and which is why I'm so bullish 
on Cosmos and the interchain and

1028
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:47,300
what IBC brings in terms of all 
these ecosystems being able to, 

1029
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,600
to interoperate and we haven't 
talked about like polka dot 

1030
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,800
also, like the ability for 
polkadot assets to move in and 

1031
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:57,200
out of the inner chain. 
Yeah, I think. 

1032
01:08:57,500 --> 01:09:01,600
Interoperability is is the way 
that we're going. 

1033
01:09:03,100 --> 01:09:08,899
Yeah, Eva, Mo's will be a point 
of entry for all these polka dot

1034
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:14,300
from pharmacist in their pocket 
at ecosystem and also from 

1035
01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:19,200
kasama. 
I'd like to kind of close this 

1036
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:26,200
part of the conversation for for
now and move to, you know, what 

1037
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:31,200
happened in the in the days 
leading up to the launch. 

1038
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,600
And after the launch, we talked 
about this earlier that the 

1039
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,399
launch has been now pushed back.
And so, for those of you 

1040
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,700
listening on epicenter, there 
will be a link in the show notes

1041
01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:46,100
where you can get the rest of 
this conversation. 

1042
01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:48,300
Nation. 
So you'll have to come to the 

1043
01:09:48,300 --> 01:09:53,700
interop podcast, wherever 
wherever you want to listen to 

1044
01:09:53,700 --> 01:09:57,000
it, whether on Spotify or on 
your podcast player on YouTube 

1045
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,700
and you'll be able to listen to 
the rest of this interview. 

1046
01:09:58,700 --> 01:10:01,600
And I hope while you're there, 
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1047
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,200
can get all of the all the 
episodes as they're released. 

1048
01:10:07,500 --> 01:10:09,300
Thank you for joining us on this
week's episode. 

1049
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,300
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1050
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,600
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1051
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,700
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1052
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,900
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1053
01:10:20,900 --> 01:10:23,000
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1054
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,400
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1055
01:10:26,407 --> 01:10:29,100
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1056
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:30,200
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1057
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:33,100
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1058
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,200
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1059
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,400
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1060
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,100
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1061
01:10:41,300 --> 01:10:42,300
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1062
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:45,800
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