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This is episode episode 458 with
guest Preeti Castle ready. 

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Welcome to epicenter to show 
which talks about the 

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Technologies projects and 
people, driving T centralization

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and blockchain Revolution. 
My name is Brian Crane and today

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I'm going to speak with Preeti 
Cassie ready. 

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She has been in the Crypt space 
for a long time. 

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She writes an excellent 
newsletter that I've been 

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reading for a while and his son 
a bunch of different stuff I 

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guess. 
Most significantly at the moment

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is that camp? 
Which is it going to be? 

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Will for web three developers, 
but before we get into the 

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episode, just a quick 
announcement. 

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So we are hiring. 
So, we're looking for Community 

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manager, for epicenter to help 
us grow our audience and take 

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epicenter to the next level. 
So if you're interested in 

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crypto and creating great 
content, we want to hear from 

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you, it would be great if you 
apply. 

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So it's going to be a link for 
how to apply in the show notes. 

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So just click on that link and 
then you can follow there and 

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you know you shared with anyone,
you think this might be a good 

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fit for Stay quiet. 
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stake while it dot dot f. 
I and that's spelled steak like 

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the meat. 
So yeah. 

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With that pretty, thanks so much
for coming on. 

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Excited to be here Ryan. 
Yeah, I know you've had, like, 

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intense hectic time. 
We had to reschedule a whole 

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bunch of times. 
Congratulations. 

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Yeah. 
Thank you. 

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Yeah, having a newborn. 
It's like, oh, wait. 

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I think I want to be free that 
our and it's like, never mind. 

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He needs you right now. 
So, yeah. 

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But thanks for your patience if 
you, she ate it. 

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Yeah, no, no. 
I have now had quite a few 

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friends Friends have babies, and
I think sort of witness witness 

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from afar a little bit, the the 
unique challenges that come with

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that. 
Yeah, awesome, cool. 

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So well it's maybe we can start 
just hears it. 

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Sheriff is a bit like how did 
you how did you get into crypto?

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And like what is your and what 
was your kind of initial journey

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into this space? 
Space. 

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Yeah, I would say if I when I 
kind of came into the space, 

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dabbled into the space on and 
off in the beginning. 

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So I was working at Andreessen 
Horowitz on the I was on the 

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deal team, they're really have a
crypto team back then because 

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this was like, way back in 2013,
2014, but I witnessed Chris 

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Dixon making the investment in 
coinbase. 

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And I remember him being super 
excited about coinbase. 

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Him and Mark kind of like, you 
know, like kind of selling the 

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firm on why coin basis is a 
great investment and I didn't 

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really understand it at that 
time, I was like, what is this 

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crypto thing? 
It's like a big because going 

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this was like a Bitcoin wallet 
and I had no idea what the hell 

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they were what that even meant 
and why that's a big deal and 

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then Balaji joined a 16z and 
then he was also very crypto, 

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you know, Enthusiast. 
And I remember him telling me to

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read the Bitcoin white paper 
because it's going to To change 

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the world and, you know, like I 
read it and was interesting, but

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it didn't really catch my 
attention at the time. 

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So I got some exposure to a 16v.
But I wouldn't say like, that's 

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when I got into the space and 
then after I left a 60 MV, I 

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taught myself how to code and 
then I was trying to figure out 

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what I want to do afterwards and
I remember asking prediction for

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advice and he's like you should 
join an industry that's growing 

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and the two industries that are 
really growing right now are 

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like machine learning. 
Krypto, although machine 

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learning was very saturated at 
the time. 

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And so crypto felt very nascent 
and I was like, okay and then I 

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looked at sort of like, what 
crypto companies are even 

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available and coinbase was like 
one of them and so I got in 

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touch with them and did a few 
interviews and long story, sir, 

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I got an offer there. 
And so I was and then I got an 

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offer at several other tech 
companies that are doing really 

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cool things. 
I should try and decide what I 

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want to do and ultimately 
Lately, I chose coinbase and the

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reason it was going to be, it 
was not because it was like a 

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company. 
It wasn't because I was like, 

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sold on crypto yet. 
It was because I just really 

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liked Brian. 
I like tried. 

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I liked the team. 
The engineering team at 

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coinbase. 
I felt like they were very like,

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quirky and weird and doing 
something different, that no one

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else was doing. 
So, like, for you to be in 

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crypto, in 2013, 2014, I think 
you have to be kind of weird. 

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Like, you weren't like a normal 
person that was going to join 

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clean days. 
And Be excited about it, right? 

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So it was like a bunch of like, 
really cool. 

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Quirky people who were like 
together and they were very, 

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very, very mission-oriented from
day one. 

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And Ryan kind of did that very 
intentionally where he hired 

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people who were like, super, 
super passionate. 

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But crypto, if you want passion 
about crypto, you want a drink 

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joining coinbase. 
So I joined and I honestly loved

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it. 
I learned so much from the 

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people there and I was not even 
doing crypto. 

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Cheering I was doing like react 
development so I was doing like 

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love development at Point base 
because obviously putting this 

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is not a, you know, 
decentralized company but still 

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like I was learning a lot and I 
still wouldn't say like I wasn't

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like I was in like deep into the
space because again I was doing 

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web development, I'd clean base,
it wasn't until I after love 

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coinbase, that I started to 
like, dabble into etherium 

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development. 
So I heard you, I learned like 

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solidity smart contract 
development, Then I had worked 

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for like a small, I co company 
which went bust, which was 

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embarrassing. 
And like I thought, like I was 

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like working on something super 
cool and lady, you know, 

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everyone at the time was like, 
super optimistic, about all 

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these different projects and so 
was I, and I ended up joining 

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one and ended up being a 
complete failure, but I learned 

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a lot in the process, I learned 
about my contract development. 

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I learned about the space. 
I learned really really deeply 

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about ethereum. 
Like I went, I decided to go. 

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Ali deep into the appearing 
rabbit hole because the main 

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reason was because I just really
love the community and sure you 

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can attest to this like in the 
early days, it didn't Community 

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was so strong. 
So passionate, I mean, they 

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still are. 
It was one of the most like 

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entrenched passionate Global 
communities. 

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And I just really like that. 
So I decided to just learn about

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etherium. 
And that's how I got into this 

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base. 
I got really obsessed with the 

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darien, like, I just really 
found it. 

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Interesting, how the whole block
chain work, how their consensus 

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were tell, State Management, 
worked how absolutely work like 

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actually, like programming and 
solidity. 

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And that's kind of how I got 
into it, and then I just kept 

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going and learning about 
different things. 

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Let me about things like Kosmos,
and I met sake, and people like 

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that. 
And so I kept going deeper down 

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into a space and then 
eventually, obviously, I started

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my own company and crypto, so, 
yeah, that was kind of my entry.

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Yeah, I remember I think one of 
your articles, you wrote this 

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long article about etherium 
know, sort of like yeah. 

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Kind of detail work. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
That I think was like widely 

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read. 
And I kind of skimmed it. 

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I think I never like fully read 
it but at least I remembered 

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articles. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
That was a very viral article 

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that just explain how it there 
in worked. 

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Um, in a very like detailed and 
intricate way. 

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So yep. 
Yeah, and so true story. 

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I remember true story because I 
was working on Cosmos and I was 

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sort of, you know, like I guess 
you were one of the, you know, 

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early projects that started 
building on Cosmos. 

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I think one of the specially we 
project that race like from like

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Venture capitalists. 
What was kind of the impetus for

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you back then? 
To say, Okay, I want to start my

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own company or my, you know, own
crypto Network. 

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To be totally honest, I would 
say someone else actually 

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decided for me. 
And what I mean by that is after

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I love claim base, I was just 
kind of doing random smart 

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contract work for different 
companies and then my seed 

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investor, she found out, you 
know, kind of a free bird and I 

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was exploring things. 
And she reached out and she's 

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like, hey, like if you want to 
start a company, like I'll find 

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you. 
And that's how it started. 

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I didn't even have a company 
name. 

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I didn't have a company formed 
like nothing. 

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It was just like me. 
And actually the the company 

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name was like, creepy Castle, 
ready LLC when she gave me the 

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sea check because I just I 
didn't I didn't know what I was 

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going to even build. 
She just thought I was a smart 

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person and she wanted to find me
to go do something interesting. 

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That's how I kind of how it 
started, and then I just started

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exploring different things that 
I probably spaces that I was 

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interested in. 
I couldn't imagine doing 

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something outside of crypto 
because I've already spent so 

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much time invested in crypto, by
that point, that I was just 

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mostly focused on doing 
something. 

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And in the computer space, I 
just wasn't sure where I would, 

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what I want to do. 
And then the things that should 

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I start to really gravitate 
towards were like identity and 

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reputation type things like 
using like using tokens to kind 

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of build, some kind of identity 
a reputation later on the 

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blockchain. 
Pleasure going deep into that 

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rabbit hole. 
And then, you know, true story, 

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kind of emerged out of that 
where we were trying to build a 

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social network where you can use
the token to, basically, curate 

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the truth quote-unquote and you 
kind of build your reputation 

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identity based on how good you 
are at curating truth as well as

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extending to making truthful 
statements. 

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So yeah, that's kind of how And 
then we hired a bunch of people 

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and we worked on it for two 
years. 

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It didn't work out in the end. 
We shut the company down in 2020

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but it was definitely a really, 
really fun and important 

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learning experience. 
I think we were one of the early

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people who actually went pretty 
far deep into the rabbit hole of

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trying to use this token to 
build a social network and 

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reputation system. 
Most people kind of just 

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Shrugged it off as possible 
problem but we actually spent 

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two years really, really going 
deep. 

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And so I would say we learned a 
lot and the takeaway from that 

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was I felt like we were a little
bit too early to the market. 

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I felt that there were so many 
things that we want to test with

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the market but the market wasn't
ready for it. 

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Meaning like you know getting 
tokens weren't mainstream like 

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if we had built something like 
that today maybe people would be

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more Don't even try using the 
product for back then. 

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In 2018 the idea of downloading 
a wallet to you the social 

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network app with the token like 
you know building a social 

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network on its own is hard to 
building social network with the

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token was like, 100 times hard. 
They were just like a lot of 

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things that I felt like we're 
too early. 

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So I think tokens aren't 
mainstream yet and then, 

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secondly, the infrastructure was
not there yet. 

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Like we were using Cosmos and 
kind of build on Cosmos because 

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it's more scalable Than if 
they're IAM. 

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But even still like, there are 
just so many bottlenecks to that

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and like the idea that users 
have to go through a worse 

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experience and they're used to 
and web to was not like 

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acceptable or accepted yet 
because I again like this is 

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before defy even started. 
This is before and I've teased 

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and people started to accept 
this poor ux as a way, as a way 

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to do things because they can 
make money and be on the other 

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end. 
Like At that time like he had a 

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poor ux is like why would people
even use you? 

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So yeah, we just ran into a lot 
of different challenges that I 

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felt like timing timing is 
definitely everything for a 

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start-up and we were definitely 
not the right time for it. 

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Yeah. 
So I guess you mentioned a whole

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bunch of like issues that came 
up and maybe I'm curious. 

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Like if you sort of think in 
terms of, you know, what a 

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little lessons and learnings 
from it that you would like try 

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to generalize and they're like 
it going forward you know and in

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other contexts in other 
situations, you know, they would

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sort of shape in how you'd 
approach things what are those 

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is that this timing on and can 
you go a little bit deeper there

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and what else is there? 
I think in hindsight II in as a 

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first time entrepreneur I think 
someone had a tree on this. 

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I forget who I think was just in
Khan. 

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He's had a tree along the lines 
of like first time Founders. 

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Focus on products like a time 
for our Founders focus on 

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Market. 
I think that's very, very true, 

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like at the first time founder, 
I probably spent six months to a

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00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,600
year, trying to build like the 
right product. 

257
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But in hindsight now that I'm 
building other companies, they 

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the Thing I do is test the 
market. 

259
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,100
Like I can, we can build, I can 
hire great engineers and build a

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00:14:59,108 --> 00:15:01,900
great product if I can validate 
the market. 

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So that's one huge learning for 
me, it's like flip the flip. 

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00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,200
The order of how you do things, 
like make sure there's a market 

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for rebuilding and then build 
something. 

264
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,100
And you know, like the other 
thing is I thought I was doing 

265
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,100
it or a development and building
an MVP, but I think as a 

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00:15:18,108 --> 00:15:22,200
first-time founder, we spent way
too much time getting that first

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product out the door and not 
Like really stopping down to a 

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00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:28,700
true MVP. 
There's like, founder ish 

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00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:32,100
entrepreneur type first time, 
founder lessons kind of that I 

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00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:34,000
can go into, but those are the 
two big ones. 

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It's like not valid in the 
market and not having fast, 

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iteration Cycles. 
In terms of like, just crypto 

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related, learnings, I would say,
2018 again, the infrastructure 

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was just too early to build any 
kind of user facing up. 

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We needed. 
We were in that cycle like Fred 

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00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,300
Fred Wilson talks about the app 
infrastructure cycle, right? 

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Like first, a lot of people 
build infrastructure and then 

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once that infrastructure is 
built entrepreneurs, go in and 

279
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build applications on top of 
that. 

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And then those obligations reach
a limit and then we As we have 

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to build infrastructure to to 
meet those requirements, we go 

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back to building infrastructure 
and then we build more apps. 

283
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And then we hit limits and then 
we build infrastructure. 

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We kind of go through these 
Loops, I would say, 2018 2019 

285
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,300
was probably more of an 
infrastructure time prayer, time

286
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:30,100
frame, where people were really 
focus on building like more 

287
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:36,900
scalable blockchains better, but
cheaper, block chains and things

288
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:38,900
like that so that they can be 
more user-friendly. 

289
00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:41,700
And that's why You saw the wave 
of like defy and if teeth 

290
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:47,000
happened in the last like in the
last type cycle, and then we hit

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00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,600
the limit on that as well. 
And now people are continuing to

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build infrastructure. 
So, yeah, I would say timing was

293
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,000
not the best. 
In 2018, another learning about 

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00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:07,000
crypto is that like I think in 
my in terms of my team because 

295
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,099
it was 2018 because it was a 
bear market like the people, I 

296
00:17:11,108 --> 00:17:15,099
hired they I wouldn't say they 
were I don't think they were 

297
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:20,500
like 100% crypto native. 
And in some ways it was a good 

298
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,500
thing as a good thing because 
they challenge me and they're 

299
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:25,800
like why would you please her 
like why would people do things 

300
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,500
this way? 
But the kind of it was that it 

301
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:32,300
was really hard to get them to 
like true. 

302
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:37,200
Embrace a crypto native product.
And so I in hindsight I wonder 

303
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,700
if we had like everyone on the 
team who was like truly crypto 

304
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:43,200
native, would we have booked 
something more different? 

305
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,400
Something that was actually 
usable etcetera. 

306
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:49,600
Yeah. 
I'll think of more but those are

307
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,400
kind of some of the things that 
come to mind. 

308
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,800
But yeah like I mean I think as 
a second time founder you just 

309
00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:02,100
do things so much differently. 
I just I feel like if I had the 

310
00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:04,800
knowledge Is that I have now. 
Like maybe we could have been 

311
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,400
successful. 
I want to talk a little bit 

312
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,600
about your so you newsletter 
right. 

313
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,600
So I've been I've been I think 
on subscribe to newsletter for 

314
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,000
quite a long time. 
Probably a lot of listeners 

315
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,200
have, you know, are aware of it 
as well, but tell us a little 

316
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,600
bit, like, how did you end up 
starting a newsletter and 

317
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,000
what's, what's kind of the role 
of the newsletter and writing in

318
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,000
general, in sort of your own 
journey and especially around 

319
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,800
learning? 
Because I think that's that's 

320
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,400
that feels to me like this big 
weaker Team that like kind of 

321
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,600
weaves through what you doing 
and what you writing. yeah, I 

322
00:18:44,608 --> 00:18:50,200
mean I have always just been A 
good writer. 

323
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,000
And I don't mean to like bribe, 
but like I do, I did I just 

324
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,400
enjoy writing because I find 
writing is a very, very powerful

325
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,500
way to articulate and and form 
your own thought, patterns, and,

326
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:09,600
and sort of crystallized. 
What you think, you know, I find

327
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,600
that if I try to learn something
and I don't write about it, I 

328
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,800
actually don't learn anything. 
Like, I haven't really truly 

329
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,100
learned it. 
It's only when I written 

330
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:20,700
something about it. 
I feel like I've really tested 

331
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:24,200
oh my god of the gaps in my 
knowledge because as soon as I 

332
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,500
put pen to paper and you start 
to realize like what you 

333
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,100
actually don't know. 
So that's kind of why I started 

334
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:34,100
writing is because like as I was
learning programming. 

335
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,200
So when I'm teaching myself, 
programming writing, goes away 

336
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,600
to kind of test what I knew and 
test for those learning. 

337
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,300
And I just started writing blogs
every week and and writing about

338
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:46,500
different technologies that 
related to JavaScript and stuff 

339
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,500
and it kind of continued. 
Doing that in my early days of 

340
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,900
crypto and that's how I built an
audience and so forth. 

341
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:59,300
And so the newsletter now is 
just honestly, just a fun way to

342
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:02,200
interact with my audience and my
audience is kind of pretty 

343
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,600
broad. 
I have people in crypto, but I 

344
00:20:04,608 --> 00:20:07,800
also have people on my 
newsletter who are who follow me

345
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:13,700
from my like, JavaScript days, 
or from my Instagram, or just 

346
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:16,400
like, in different things. 
I'm interested in like Fitness 

347
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,500
food, like, These different 
interests that I've kind of 

348
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:21,600
built up over time. 
People kind of follow me for 

349
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,800
different reasons. 
So my list is kind of diverse 

350
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,200
and I don't write just about 
crypto, I write if I feel like 

351
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:33,300
writing about my life or 
something related to have 

352
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:35,500
different, think how completely 
outside of crypto, I'll write 

353
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:38,400
about it and I think people do 
find that interesting because 

354
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,800
even though it's not a crypto 
topic, most people can relate to

355
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,700
what I write about. 
But yeah, like II and I don't 

356
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:48,900
like I do now. 
Nowadays like having a 

357
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:51,500
newsletter and a paid newsletter
and the subscription-based 

358
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,800
newsletter is like a huge thing 
now. 

359
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,600
But personally, the only reason 
I have that newsletter is just 

360
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,600
more of a hobby. 
It's like I write when I feel 

361
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,000
like it to that to that 
newsletter. 

362
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:04,900
But I also definitely use it for
marketing to that campus as 

363
00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:08,000
well, which you know about? 
Yeah. 

364
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,600
Absolutely, yeah. 
You thought we might, some of my

365
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,000
newsletter. 
I was like I think I've like I 

366
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,600
used to, right? 
I was writing like a Weekly 

367
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:17,200
Newsletter before the baby was 
born. 

368
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,400
I'll continue it. 
But I was going to writing about

369
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,200
just different things I do in a 
week. 

370
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:27,000
You know, like I dance, I'm a 
I've been learning how to dance 

371
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,600
and I have a dog and now I have 
a kids. 

372
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800
There's a lot that a lot of 
interesting things that come out

373
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,100
of come out of that and it's fun
to write about it. 

374
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:39,500
Yeah. 
No. 

375
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:44,000
Thanks for sharing. 
I feel like this what you said. 

376
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,500
You know if I learn something 
and don't write about it I don't

377
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,200
actually. 
Learn it that like really? 

378
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,900
Yeah, the restructure because I 
was like writing a bit on a Blog

379
00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,600
especially at some point I was 
getting into the rhythm of like 

380
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,200
I was like, different from you. 
I wouldn't write these like long

381
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,600
post but we try to write 
something short and just put it 

382
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,800
out and I find it so enormously 
satisfying. 

383
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,600
But then I would kind of get 
stuck again like not right for a

384
00:22:08,608 --> 00:22:14,000
while and I, but I feel like 
this, the way you face it of 

385
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,500
this kind of connection between 
expressing, you know, 

386
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:21,500
expressing. 
Years about something you 

387
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:23,600
learned and actually the act of 
learning. 

388
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,400
I feel like that's a really nice
way of thinking about it. 

389
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,700
Yeah, I think the, like, I mean,
you do podcast, so that's kind 

390
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:34,000
of your I guess mode of 
expression. 

391
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaking is also one way to, if 
you're trying to explain 

392
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,900
something through voice, that's 
also another way to, I guess, 

393
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,000
crystallized your thoughts, but 
everyone has reformed, right. 

394
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,600
Like, when people like to write,
some people like to talk, some 

395
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,400
people like to do both, but 
there has to be some way that 

396
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,600
your, I think you have to force 
yourself to articulate, what you

397
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,900
think, you know. 
And that's the Attachment 

398
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:01,200
knowledge, whether it's written 
or voice. 

399
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,200
Yeah. 
No, I do think actually writing 

400
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,700
is very powerful in this way. 
I mean, podcast is an amazing 

401
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:10,900
tool to learn. 
It's amazing to have your 

402
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:13,200
conversations with different 
people and like learning about 

403
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,000
lots of different topics. 
But I think there's like 

404
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,000
something something a bit 
different and it be harder in 

405
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,100
having to condense it in like a 
written form. 

406
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,200
Especially when you, when you 
sort of publish it, right? 

407
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,200
I think. 
I think like putting your ideas 

408
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,800
out in the world is a scary 
thing and not many people are 

409
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,700
willing to do it. 
If you're willing to do it. 

410
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:43,500
I think you get a lot of. 
That's why you get a lot of new 

411
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,600
repo, a lot of benefits from it.
You can build an audience, you 

412
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,900
can make friends by writing 
publicly, you can make, you 

413
00:23:50,908 --> 00:23:52,900
know, have look really strong 
connections. 

414
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,900
Like my, my husband is an 
example of someone who basically

415
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:05,700
wrote his way to two big. 
Damn, I guess he has connections

416
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:09,300
out all over the world based on 
his interest and people he has 

417
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,700
followers from all over the 
world and anywhere we go, people

418
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:15,200
start to recognize him. 
So like there's really cool 

419
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,100
benefits to writing and 
Publishing things online. 

420
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,300
Definitely encourage more people
to do it, the finger you say 

421
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:25,900
about publishing, I think that 
it does absolutely right right. 

422
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:28,500
Because like this just a huge 
there's like a world of a 

423
00:24:28,508 --> 00:24:33,400
difference between like writing 
some kind of drafts of Blog post

424
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,200
or blog, because it always feels
like a draft of a blog post if 

425
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,500
you don't publish it, right? 
It's like the actual Act of like

426
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:41,800
putting it out, like changes 
something. 

427
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,800
Yeah, it's kind of like an 
artist, really? 

428
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,000
Like I give I have a lot of 
respect for artists who are 

429
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,400
willing to put their art out 
because there's a lot of people 

430
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,200
who pain or dancer or, you know,
do stuff, but they actually 

431
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,600
don't publish it. 
Whereas like it takes a lot of 

432
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,000
guts to put that out because, 
you know, you're going to be 

433
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,600
critiqued, this is me somebody 
out there who doesn't like what 

434
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000
you're doing or what you're 
saying, what you're writing, and

435
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,500
it takes a strong-willed person 
to be able to be able to put 

436
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:13,800
that, put that out and and And 
receive that kind of criticism 

437
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:18,000
but you also receive positive to
this positive positive responses

438
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,500
as well. 
So it balances out. 

439
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:23,000
Yeah I mean that was that was 
the amazing thing when I was 

440
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,200
like, right? 
I mean I will die. 

441
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:28,900
You know like maybe 30 blog post
last year and really my goal 

442
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,100
was, I didn't republish. 
It didn't really promoted much 

443
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:34,300
at all. 
The only thing he did was they 

444
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:36,600
retweeted it automatically 
through my account. 

445
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,100
That's the only thing I did. 
And my only goal was basically 

446
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,900
just to probably stuff. 
So I get sort of Habit of like 

447
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:46,200
putting something out and like 
not, not sort of censoring 

448
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:52,600
myself and and getting into, 
some sort of writing habit and 

449
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:56,700
everything. 
Especially like, also sort of 

450
00:25:56,708 --> 00:25:57,400
told myself. 
Okay. 

451
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,200
I'm happy to publish like really
bad blog posts, right? 

452
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,600
Because and I'm not going to 
promote him, I just want to 

453
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,300
publish stuff, right? 
So I'm kind of okay with 

454
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:08,700
polishing about posts and then I
was still amazed at like how 

455
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:11,600
many people some have found it 
and gave feedback about and say 

456
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,900
oh this is really Be great. 
And they really like it was very

457
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,900
interesting to see that even 
though I'm like you know, 

458
00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:23,700
definitely nowhere near like 
your level of like writing and 

459
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:28,300
you know, a lot of it was like 
very quickly put out and but 

460
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:31,600
yeah it's it's just it's just 
such a powerful thing. 

461
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,200
It is it really is. 
And I'd like you said, even 

462
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,100
though like, boys podcast and 
other forms exist, I still think

463
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:45,600
written form is is one of the 
most powerful because it can 

464
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,100
like like when you write 
something it's out in the world 

465
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:50,100
forever. 
Right? 

466
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:53,800
Like you read written stuff from
hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of 

467
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,300
years ago. 
And I think people what you 

468
00:26:56,300 --> 00:27:00,100
write today, who knows if people
from 100 years or 200 years or 

469
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,500
dinner years because we do 
writing, like, I think it's a 

470
00:27:02,508 --> 00:27:09,200
very powerful thing and so you 
have a way to like kind of make 

471
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,800
your mark in the world by 
putting your thoughts out there.

472
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:18,700
Let's talk about that camp. 
So how how did you decide to 

473
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:20,200
start that camp? 
Like cut it? 

474
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:26,100
That coma? 
So honestly with a side project 

475
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:31,400
I was I took some time off from 
work just to focus on help life,

476
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,700
all different things and then I 
kind of missed doing crypto 

477
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,500
stuff and I was like, how can I 
get into crypto with that like, 

478
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:40,500
going full time and do it? 
Now they let me just do a little

479
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:43,500
chorus where I teach people how 
to do smart contract development

480
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:44,800
because it's something I already
know. 

481
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,900
So I was like, I'm just gonna 
leverage a skill. 

482
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,300
I already have and do a course 
on it. 

483
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,500
And Maven, I started I started 
at camp on Maven, actually. 

484
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:57,700
Sounds like a cohort based 
online platform where you can 

485
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:02,300
run cohort, based courses. 
And so I use Maven as a platform

486
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,400
to launch this course, and we 
had like 60 people during the 

487
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,400
first cohort and someone in my 
network had reached out to me 

488
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,800
and he's like, hey, can I help 
you with the course, I'd love to

489
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,100
work with you on it. 
And so I've me and him we were 

490
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,700
co-instructors on the course and
lo and behold. 

491
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:21,800
Like it turned out to be a 
little really, really 

492
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,800
successful. 
Course the people the students 

493
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,200
loved it, we love teaching it. 
Like we got so much it was so 

494
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,300
exciting. 
Like we walked away with so much

495
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:33,800
energy and we were just like so 
energized by teaching these 

496
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:39,300
students and we just like felt 
like there's so much so much we 

497
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:42,700
can do beyond what we had done 
in that first cohort like so 

498
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:48,100
much potential for what we can 
do in cohorts 2 3 4 and so forth

499
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:50,700
and that's when we were like 
okay like let's keep doing more 

500
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:52,500
cohorts and so we do the second 
one. 

501
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:56,400
And then we did a third one and 
then like, every single time I 

502
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,100
feel like we get better and 
better and better. 

503
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:01,300
And we just like, we find so 
many cool things that we can do 

504
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,600
Beyond just what we just did in 
that cohort and both me and my 

505
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,200
co-instructor. 
We both love teaching and we 

506
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,400
loves like the, the experience 
of having to sit down and keeps 

507
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,500
that live course, because it's, 
it's different from what you see

508
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,600
out there in the market, right? 
Like, most of the online 

509
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,200
courses, today are kind of 
asynchronous and you're kind of 

510
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,000
having to passively read on your
own and and complete the things 

511
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,300
on your own. 
Like very few people are doing 

512
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:33,000
like live courses and for us 
like print that live course was 

513
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,600
was very unique. 
Like we got to have a room full 

514
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,700
of 60 developers who are asking 
us like really really deep 

515
00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:43,500
intellectual questions. 
And we were answering them live 

516
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:46,700
and everyone was getting to hear
the answers and learn from the 

517
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,600
learn from their peers. 
So it's really cool in that way.

518
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Yeah. 
So we kind of started it and it 

519
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,300
just blew up and we just kept 
doing it and now we're going to 

520
00:29:55,308 --> 00:29:57,800
be on our fourth cohort at the 
end of the year. 

521
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:02,500
And we are making some pretty 
big improvements for what we, 

522
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,500
what we're going to do going 
forward in a nutshell. 

523
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,800
We're going to make a lot. 
We're going to make a lot of the

524
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,600
course, a lot more web, three 
native meaning, we're going to 

525
00:30:11,608 --> 00:30:14,800
experiment with things like, you
know, signing with so everything

526
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,000
that as a student, you're 
represented as a as an interim 

527
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,100
address. 
So you basically apply with your

528
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,300
The master address and 
everything is tied to your mat. 

529
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,500
And last address, we give you 
badges for completing certain 

530
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:30,800
milestones in the course we have
like a reputation score for each

531
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,800
student based on like the 
different Milestones, they reach

532
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:36,500
different, cool things that 
we're doing, just explore like 

533
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,300
can we can reuse some of the 
Primitives that have been built 

534
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:43,300
in the last cycle like nft 
Badges and and identity and 

535
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:47,500
things like that to build like a
web three native experience for 

536
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:52,500
the that cohort. 
But yeah, it's Been fun, curious

537
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:56,200
like these people so much like, 
enthusiasm, you know, about like

538
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,900
this experience of teaching, 
this course, what do you think 

539
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,700
it is? 
That makes it such a wonderful 

540
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:07,100
experience for you? 
It's seeing the students kind of

541
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,700
thrive on the other end. 
So like, you know, it's this is 

542
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:13,100
knowledge. 
I already know, it's like 

543
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:15,500
there's no point of me holding 
on to that knowledge, right? 

544
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:19,600
Like if I pass it down, then 
it's super interesting to see 

545
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,900
how other people use that 
analysis. 

546
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:24,600
Then do really, really cool 
things that I would never do in 

547
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,000
my lifetime. 
And then just seeing people who 

548
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,500
maybe never had an opportunity 
to come into the space, to get 

549
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:34,600
that knowledge and now be a 
full-time. 

550
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,100
And but three engineer like the,
seeing the, I think the best 

551
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:40,800
part is seeing the outcome of 
what happens in these students. 

552
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,000
After they graduate, my everyone
is successful, of course, and 

553
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,500
people, just and of going back 
to their current jobs, but a lot

554
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,600
of people do make strides 
towards becoming full time, but 

555
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,000
three engineers. 
And, you know, you guys, I think

556
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,500
I heard a couple people from our
grad grad list and so those 

557
00:31:56,500 --> 00:32:02,800
women like they it was hard to 
find them but it was cool to see

558
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,900
them go from like it's my Dream 
to be about their engineer to 

559
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:09,800
them, taking the course. 
And then a few weeks later than 

560
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,800
having a job offer, to be able 
to re-engineer, or just an 

561
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,600
engineer at about three company.
So that's probably the most 

562
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,700
rewarding thing. 
Yeah, yeah. 

563
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:23,600
So just explanation here. 
So we've course, one, I guess 

564
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,500
we, I think I saw at some point 
in your newsletter, I think 

565
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:31,200
there was, you know, some some 
company that did some 

566
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,600
scholarships for dap camp and 
then we were Oh, this is cool. 

567
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,600
Like we want to do this too and 
I think the company was and so 

568
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,000
we also Focus the scholarships 
on women, right. 

569
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,000
So we have been doing these T 
scholarships for a few cohorts. 

570
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,800
I think we did three chords. 
Right? 

571
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,900
I guess not the first one but I 
think the ones or the ones after

572
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,500
that and yeah we ended up 
carrying two people out of it. 

573
00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:58,700
So to like Marie until L, you 
know, that joint run this full 

574
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:04,300
time and is very cool. 
I mean, first of all, the the do

575
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:06,700
both Amazing. 
So, I'm like really happy that 

576
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:09,300
we hired them but they're also 
like very different like 

577
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:11,300
backgrounds. 
Very different. 

578
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,700
Yeah. 
Just very different from our 

579
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:16,500
server, normal applicant pool 
and like bring you like very 

580
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,900
different perspective and 
approach to it and you know, 

581
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:22,900
very deep enthusiasm for crypto 
which is definitely something we

582
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:27,100
look for a lot. 
And so it's been like really 

583
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:30,100
great for us to like work with 
with that component. 

584
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,700
They're so eager to learn and so
eager to contribute. 

585
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:38,500
So it was cool to have them be 
part of the cohort and then go 

586
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:42,900
on to do like really cool things
like join course and it's also 

587
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,100
like good motivation for other 
women to write. 

588
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:49,000
Because if they see talita, they
see Maria and they're like, oh 

589
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,500
like you know, I'm just like, 
damn, like I could do what they 

590
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:55,900
could do and so more people come
in and just kind of follow their

591
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:58,400
lead. 
So it's cool to see you guys 

592
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,000
open doors like that for them. 
So when it comes to like 

593
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,900
learning rf3 development, is 
there, what's hard about this? 

594
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:13,400
Like, what do people struggle 
with How to have the engineering

595
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:14,900
part of it. 
I was actually not that 

596
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:18,500
difficult like learning solidity
and that part that peace is not 

597
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:23,699
that challenging. 
The, the challenging part is 

598
00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:30,199
like Like obviously crypto is 
very multi-discipline meaning. 

599
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,699
We give to understand a lot of 
different things to truly 

600
00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:36,900
understand like The Right Use 
cases for it. 

601
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:42,000
Like, you have to understand 
economics, like now crafter, 

602
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,800
like blockchain engineering. 
Obviously you have to understand

603
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,000
my politics in some way. 
There's a lot of different 

604
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400
subject areas that could their 
kind of touches and I think as 

605
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,800
an engineer, the challenging 
part for them is like thing. 

606
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:59,200
What to see that bigger picture 
and think about product from 

607
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,000
that angle and not just thinking
about product from the 

608
00:35:02,008 --> 00:35:04,400
engineering side. 
Because just building this 

609
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,100
engineering and product, doesn't
mean it is not going to make it 

610
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:09,500
useful. 
They give to think about how 

611
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:11,800
you're going to get aligned. 
How you going to use like 

612
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,500
incentives to basically align 
the different piece of people in

613
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,600
that Network. 
These are all just like very, 

614
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,800
very, very big and thorny 
problems. 

615
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,800
That Engineers are not really 
used to thinking about and so a 

616
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,300
lot of people that take the 
course, As they kind of tell us 

617
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:30,400
that blockchain engineering 
feels a lot more entrepreneurial

618
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,600
compared to other engineering 
because other engineering, 

619
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,700
they're just kind of like 
engineering or is it crypto? 

620
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,400
You're kind of thinking about 
the bigger picture and thinking 

621
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,600
about a lot more different 
things until you are being a lot

622
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,500
more entrepreneurial in that 
way. 

623
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,900
And a lot of people, some people
are not that good at that. 

624
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:48,700
So that's also the other 
challenge. 

625
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:53,500
I would say like, there's people
that come in thinking that, you 

626
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:54,900
know, because they're really 
good engineers. 

627
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,400
And that they're going to like 
it or they going to be 

628
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,700
successful, but sometimes 
they're not like, we had a 

629
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,200
really strong engineer who 
thought like would crush it. 

630
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,800
But like it was pretty clear 
that like, he just like he was 

631
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,900
just too stuck in the 
engineering side of things and 

632
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:13,600
not able to see like the bigger 
picture of like how to build a 

633
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,100
how to build a good product that
people can actually use. 

634
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:19,900
Yeah, I think that's right. 
I think this sort of like, 

635
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:24,200
political and philosophical 
dimension of like, crypto is 

636
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,800
like something that's like very 
crucial and a lot of people, I 

637
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,100
really get it, right? 
And they kind of, like, 

638
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,800
understand it on some deep 
level. 

639
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,500
But then, like other people 
really struggle with it, and 

640
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:40,800
they can even work in crypto, 
but just somehow, don't, they 

641
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,400
don't quite they don't quite get
it. 

642
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,400
Yeah, Yeah and I think it's an 
acquired skill. 

643
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,100
What I want to say is I think it
has also to do something, 

644
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:55,400
they've kind of maybe a 
fundamental you know values and 

645
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,800
way of looking at the world I 
think you know especially people

646
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:06,800
who maybe don't like Authority 
so much or look for freedom. 

647
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,500
In some way, you're like more 
sovereignty and autonomy. 

648
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:14,700
I think they kind of well often 
they become interesting crypto. 

649
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,000
Because of that. 
But then I think that also gives

650
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,500
you like. 
I mean, for example, if you 

651
00:37:19,508 --> 00:37:24,000
think about, you know, the keys 
and who controls the keys, and 

652
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,600
the trust assumptions, and like,
all of that stuff, I think 

653
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,900
that's like, very deeply 
interwoven with that. 

654
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,500
And I mean, I remember in the 
twenty Seventeen or eighteen 

655
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,200
bull market, there's a lot of 
these people came and then they 

656
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,300
do these ico's but like, clearly
just like, didn't really, it was

657
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:44,300
maybe an opportunity for them to
raise a bunch of money, but it 

658
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,400
It missed the point of what it 
was all about. 

659
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,300
Yes, that's a really good point.
And the other, the other thing 

660
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:58,500
that I would add to that is 
people I think like it's it 

661
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:05,200
takes a really It's not easy to 
figure out where a token is 

662
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,200
youthful. 
And we're talking is not useful 

663
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:11,000
and that's like, I would say a 
skill that you only learn by 

664
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,200
seeing a lot of a lot of 
different projects and really 

665
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,500
trying to understand like what 
is the purpose of that token? 

666
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,500
And I would say no one's really 
truly an expert on this till 

667
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:21,800
later. 
Still debates about whether 

668
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,300
certain projects should have a 
token or not. 

669
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:28,000
So that seems to be something 
that I think the engineers 

670
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,000
sometimes struggle with because 
they like put a token into That 

671
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,700
probably maybe doesn't need a 
token and could be done without 

672
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,400
and it might be a good 
engineering experience for them 

673
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,900
but it's not like a really good 
use case for a token, you know. 

674
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,400
So from from the people who came
through dab cam, what do the 

675
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,100
people who made it successfully 
and, you know, they're like, 

676
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:56,200
working group do, what do they 
have in common? 

677
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,500
I would say there, I mean number
one is there strong Engineers 

678
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000
because we do do a pretty strong
screening on them before they 

679
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,000
take the cohort. 
So they're strong Engineers. 

680
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,700
So they have like a strong 
fundamental Baseline set of 

681
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,800
engineering skills. 
Secondly they're really eager to

682
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,500
learn and they're like super 
passionate because you know, 

683
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,900
crypto it's like you're coming 
to space, you have to just be 

684
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:26,600
willing to just drink through 
the fire. 

685
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,900
Hose, And if you if you're just 
kind of slow and trying to take 

686
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:33,400
your time, this is not going to 
work with give to be very very 

687
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,100
on top of things. 
And eager to learn. 

688
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,300
I would say most of the people 
the people that are most 

689
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,000
successful are the ones that 
like are very eager to learn and

690
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,400
then and they learn fast too. 
And third, I would say they 

691
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,800
going to like the point we're 
trying to make is like they have

692
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,500
a more, they have a they have a 
pretty good grasp on, like the 

693
00:39:52,500 --> 00:39:57,200
whole, the bigger picture of 
things and there. 

694
00:39:57,300 --> 00:40:02,000
Not just like a code monkey. 
But for lack of better words. 

695
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

696
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,700
No, that makes sense. 
I think one thing that also I 

697
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:13,000
have stood out to me a bit that 
I see, sometimes people struggle

698
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,800
with a lot is, I guess if you're
in an another industry, I then 

699
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,900
you want to like work in this 
industry, then you know, you may

700
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:27,500
be research a bunch of companies
and then like you apply there 

701
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:29,300
and you try to get a job with 
those companies. 

702
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:30,600
You know. 
I guess that's kind of like the 

703
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,600
standard way but in crypto 
because These are so, like the 

704
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,500
information is all open and a 
lot of this more kind of 

705
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:44,700
Community Driven. 
Like, that's not the best way, 

706
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,000
right? 
Like the, it's a better way to 

707
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,800
sort of figure out like what you
actually find interesting, and 

708
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,500
then learn about that. 
And then kind of get involved in

709
00:40:53,508 --> 00:40:56,700
that community and maybe like, 
you know, go through conference,

710
00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:59,000
like right block, right, right, 
about it. 

711
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,300
Write blog posts, so like 
contribute in some way and then 

712
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,400
Two things will happen, right? 
So I think this sort of I'm 

713
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,000
going to start with trying to 
get a job is if it can be a big 

714
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,700
obstacle. 
Also because people don't want 

715
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:16,100
to speak with you. 
If you don't if you if you if 

716
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:20,500
you could just go ahead and get 
started but you don't and you 

717
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:23,000
just want to do calls with 
people. 

718
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,500
That's a good point. 
That's the way to put it. 

719
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,800
Yeah. 
And I guess that's I mean that's

720
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,400
in any case because we're still 
good quiet, the beginning of 

721
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,100
that. 
But I think this whole You know,

722
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:40,200
working for a doll is, you know,
is another thing that you know, 

723
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,300
there's probably maybe right 
now. 

724
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,200
I don't know how well those 
start maybe some of the Dolls 

725
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,200
work pretty well, but it's 
probably still, like a better 

726
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,700
option for most people. 
I think might be to go for like 

727
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,400
work for a normal website 
company but it's definitely 

728
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,400
becoming something where it's 
just an entirely different way 

729
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,900
of working. 
Yeah. 

730
00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:06,800
And I think, And I think whether
you should join a job or whether

731
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,700
you should join a regular update
company, just depends on your 

732
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:11,000
personality. 
Like, if your entrepreneurial to

733
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,200
begin with and you have a high 
risk tolerance, I think you can 

734
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,400
do it down low and, and you have
like, I guess the financial 

735
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,700
cushion, you can turn it down 
and be very exploratory that 

736
00:42:21,700 --> 00:42:24,700
way. 
Have maybe have a few different 

737
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:27,200
dials that you're part of where 
you have different roles in 

738
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,700
those dolls. 
But if you're more like employee

739
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:35,300
mindset ended then I I'm joining
the web three company and going 

740
00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:39,700
spending maybe a year or two 
years there to truly understand 

741
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:43,600
the space and have the time to 
build your confidence. 

742
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,200
Before you go the doll route. 
This probably what makes sense 

743
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:51,400
for you because like if I try to
come into crypto and join it out

744
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,700
right away, I think I've been 
pretty confused and maybe 

745
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,300
depending on what how I joined 
or what dowels, I joined, I 

746
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:02,600
might even be discouraged or 
have false. 

747
00:43:03,900 --> 00:43:08,100
False starts or what not. 
But because I joined coinbase 

748
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:14,100
for example, it gave me a really
strong foundation and time to 

749
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:17,600
really spend time learning about
crypto before deciding to, like,

750
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:19,500
go out and explore and do my own
thing. 

751
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,900
But there are start a company or
Journey down or whatever. 

752
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:26,000
And I actually like when people 
graduate that camp, I tell the 

753
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,100
same thing to them. 
I'm like, if I were in your 

754
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:31,800
shoes, like the first thing I 
would do after June graduating, 

755
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,600
a boot camp is joining, what? 
Great. 

756
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,500
Even if it's boring spend like a
year or two years there, and 

757
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:41,100
then go do my own thing, go be 
more entrepreneurial Journey 

758
00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:43,000
Down. 
Start, my own company, whatnot. 

759
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,800
There's some people who are 
ready to start a company right 

760
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,800
after graduating and usually, 
those are people who either 

761
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,400
started companies in the past or
they just naturally more 

762
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,400
entrepreneurial minded. 
So there's exceptions, but I 

763
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,300
would say, for the most part, 
yeah, Joanna Webster company. 

764
00:44:01,300 --> 00:44:04,700
And for that can be talked a 
little bit about Fourth cohort 

765
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:08,400
in like you know building in 
morph descriptor elements like 

766
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,800
what's your what's beyond that? 
I mean, there's so much we can 

767
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,300
do. 
I mean, right now, the cohorts 

768
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:21,000
are like, less than 100 in size 
and mostly in the US and some 

769
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:26,100
parts of Asia markets like one 
thing I mean I think like we can

770
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:31,600
scale this to a lot to be a lot 
bigger and to reach a lot more 

771
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,000
people for one, especially 
people in like Emerging Markets,

772
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,100
you know, I can I continue to 
hear how about how people 

773
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,500
countries like Certain countries
in Africa, like Nigeria and so 

774
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:46,600
forth. 
Are apparently very, very crypto

775
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,900
friendly and have really, really
smart people. 

776
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:53,800
They just don't have access to 
the best education, the best 

777
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,600
platforms to learn and go off 
of. 

778
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,700
So I think the bigger vision is 
just to like, scale it to a lot 

779
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:06,900
bigger of an audience and be 
able to bring this to people 

780
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:10,900
like that who can use it as a as
a tool to jumpstart their 

781
00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:13,700
careers. 
Krypto basically, what we want 

782
00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:15,800
to be is like the bridge for 
people who want to get into 

783
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,300
current do. 
So if you're an engineer and 

784
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:19,800
you're kind of lurking in the 
background, we want to be that 

785
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,100
bridge so that you don't have to
go on it on your own. 

786
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:26,500
Just like, you know, when I 
started learning how to code, I 

787
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:29,000
could do it on my own, but it 
probably take like two years. 

788
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,500
But instead, I did a coding 
bootcamp, which was a really 

789
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:38,500
powerful way for me to learn in 
a very structured way, any other

790
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,200
people who are also learning to 
code, and then go do my own. 

791
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,400
Thing. 
Yeah, I know, I think that's 

792
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,500
very true, like this kind of 
like learning with others is to 

793
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:50,100
keep a. 
I was also once you know, spend 

794
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,200
time like try learning to code 
on my own and I was pretty 

795
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,100
consistently, you know, for 
maybe two years. 

796
00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:59,200
I spent like, you know, most 
days like spent a bunch of time 

797
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,600
coding but I was actually very 
slow progress. 

798
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,000
And you know, in the end I was 
kind of like, all right, I also 

799
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,200
need to do some kind of coding 
bootcamp, but then I discovered 

800
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,300
crypto and I kind of just 
focused on crypto instead but I 

801
00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:18,300
felt very much this kind of lack
of Like, working alone, makes it

802
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:23,600
very hard and and I think 
working with other developers, 

803
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,500
right? 
Is that clearly such a powerful 

804
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:29,300
thing that it's just like 
dramatically accelerated makes a

805
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:31,400
huge difference. 
Makes a huge difference. 

806
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:35,700
Yep. 
Maybe talk a little bit about, 

807
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,700
you know, the silver aspect of 
like, you know, is topic right 

808
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:43,700
in the industry, a lot like 
spinach correspond in many 

809
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,400
different contexts. 
But like you being a woman in 

810
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,400
crypto, what are your thoughts 
on that? 

811
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,200
And like, what is your 
experience? 

812
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,000
Been kind of seeing that the 
chat the unique challenges of 

813
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,400
women through that camp. 
I think compared to when I was 

814
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,800
joining crypto and there's like,
zero think he's gotten a lot 

815
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,200
better. 
This is there's definitely a lot

816
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,900
of diversity. 
Now, a lot of a lot more female 

817
00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:11,900
in the space, especially with 
nft, which are more related to 

818
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:14,100
art and culture. 
So I brought a much, much more 

819
00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:16,500
divorce, diverse audience into 
the space. 

820
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,800
But in terms of Engineers, 
female Engineers is still a huge

821
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:25,600
lack of them. 
And I didn't realize that until 

822
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,200
you guys gave us the opportunity
to give scholarships to women to

823
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,900
join the cohort and we were 
like, okay, awesome, like we 

824
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:35,300
have five tanks or ten 
scholarships to give to women. 

825
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:37,800
And we realize, like there's 
actually very few female 

826
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,800
Engineers who are one interested
into, who are qualified. 

827
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,600
We did haven't people who are 
interested, but they didn't know

828
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,900
how to code. 
So we couldn't really accept 

829
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:51,900
them and so there's very few 
like it's it's really hard to 

830
00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:53,700
find, female, Engineers, or 
qualify. 

831
00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:58,900
And who want to do crypto? 
That's kind of a big challenge 

832
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:03,800
that we continue to be forced to
meet and deal with every cohort 

833
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:05,700
with the scholarships that you 
give us. 

834
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,200
And it's been a great thing to 
get it, forced us, to go outside

835
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,700
of our networks, and reach out 
to networks where they are 

836
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:15,700
female engineers and try to get 
in to see if they are interested

837
00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:18,800
in doing the cohort and to try 
to reach a broader audience 

838
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,300
beyond what my my following. 
Because it seems like most of my

839
00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:27,900
following is as male or female 
who don't know how to code yet. 

840
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,000
Yeah. 
I think the the funny thing is 

841
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,800
like the people who do and the 
female Engineers who do end up 

842
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,700
joining are actually very very 
capable there sometimes strong 

843
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:42,800
or a strong or stronger than the
male. 

844
00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:45,900
So it's not like they're not 
capable, it's just that 

845
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:50,900
sometimes they either don't have
the resources to do something 

846
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:53,100
like this. 
Scholarships help or they don't 

847
00:48:53,100 --> 00:48:54,000
sometimes of no. 
It's not. 

848
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,300
It's just that they don't have 
the. 

849
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,400
They don't even. 
They don't have their almost 

850
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,800
intimidated to do something like
this. 

851
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,800
And so some of our marketing 
efforts have to kind of show 

852
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:10,200
that like, hey, like you can do 
it too and we kind of encourage 

853
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,300
them to apply. 
Yeah. 

854
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,700
Is there something specific 
about crypto? 

855
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:18,600
Do you think that like stops 
women from, you know, applying 

856
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,200
to that camp in general like 
female developers of like 

857
00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:26,000
Wanting to work in the industry.
So why don't you just don't feel

858
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,300
like some of them don't don't 
feel like they're qualified even

859
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,000
though they are. 
So there's a little bit of an 

860
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,600
intimidation factor and this is 
just like a female thing. 

861
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,600
Sometimes where we have we're 
not like as confident as the men

862
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,400
are about our skills. 
We can sometimes underestimate 

863
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,500
ourselves and be a little bit 
more reserved or shy about or 

864
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:50,100
skills. 
And we I think there's like a 

865
00:49:50,107 --> 00:49:54,300
lot of studies that prove that 
like men will apply for a job. 

866
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,500
Even if they don't meet all the 
qualifications resume and they 

867
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,400
don't want to meet every single 
qualification before they apply.

868
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:03,900
So we have some of that, a 
little bit of that Dynamic going

869
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:08,100
on. 
And secondly, I think just the 

870
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:12,700
nature of a lot of like, if 
you're, there's not that many 

871
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:17,500
women who are like mid-level 
senior Engineers to begin with, 

872
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:20,900
because most people by the time,
they're in their late 20s, 

873
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:22,300
right? 
They might start families or 

874
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:26,200
they might have kids. 
And so So there's just a lot 

875
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,200
less female to begin with in the
market so there's kind of both 

876
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:34,700
factors playing into it and so 
our goal is never to I don't 

877
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:37,400
believe that we're going to have
like equal 50/50 ratio and the 

878
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,600
Thunder goal because that's not 
realistic like women and men 

879
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,500
like you know, they're just play
different roles in society and 

880
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:45,200
sometimes women don't want to be
Engineers. 

881
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:49,700
But our goal is at least like 
for the woman who are Engineers 

882
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:54,800
to give them access and how do 
we Each them. 

883
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,400
How do we get? 
How do we find them? 

884
00:50:57,100 --> 00:51:01,800
That's kind of our goal, each 
cohort, and we're short slowly 

885
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,000
trying to discover different 
networks where these women exist

886
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:12,200
and, and trying to get to them 
as, as efficiently as possible. 

887
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:16,400
Cool. 
Well, let's do one last question

888
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,100
before we wrap up because there 
is like asking, I think Marie 

889
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:22,100
until L was like, oh, we should 
ask PT and like both Dimension 

890
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,200
like one question, which is not 
a question. 

891
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:27,400
One that I expected but it's 
like how do you stay up-to-date 

892
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,000
with all that's going on in the 
crypto industry? 

893
00:51:32,100 --> 00:51:35,600
Yeah, I think everyone has their
own way, personally, I don't 

894
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:40,000
find that I like I will listen 
to podcasts, but it's more just 

895
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,500
like to pass time than to truly 
learn. 

896
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:47,900
It's kind of like passing 
knowledge, passive knowledge. 

897
00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:53,900
I mean, the best way I learn is 
by reading and and so for me, 

898
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:58,600
the way I keep up with things is
if I'll have friends or Twitter 

899
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,400
whenever the interesting 
whenever like some of the big 

900
00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:06,300
Post drop, I'll read those and 
I'll just read stuff that like 

901
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:10,600
people I trust or that I like 
their writing. 

902
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,700
I read their writing. 
So that's how I keep up with 

903
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:16,600
things. 
It's I like to read other people

904
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,900
like to use podcast as a way to 
keep up with things. 

905
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:22,900
That's totally fair way. 
It's just that for me, I know I 

906
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:25,700
get distracted easily and like 
I'm listening, but I'm half 

907
00:52:25,700 --> 00:52:28,000
listening because I'm doing five
other things while listening to 

908
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,400
a podcast. 
So it's not really the best way 

909
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,400
to learn for me. 
And I I can't sit there and just

910
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,700
like listen to a podcast and 
take notes like that just 

911
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,000
doesn't work as well as just 
like reading in terms of what 

912
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,200
sources, how I find the sources 
mostly. 

913
00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:46,000
I don't really read like 
mainstream sources like coin 

914
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,300
Market, coin gecko or whatever 
like all these like different 

915
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:51,700
platforms that exist that 
proliferate node is mostly 

916
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:54,200
individual. 
So they follow that I like and 

917
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,800
that I trust I so I read their 
newsletters and everyone will be

918
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:59,400
different like who you resonate 
with? 

919
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,500
Who's writing your resume, with 
will be different from mine. 

920
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,000
So, you know, just go down the 
rabbit hole and find people that

921
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,300
you whose writings you really 
like and read that and I'm just 

922
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:17,000
been follow their writing cool. 
Well, thanks so much Beauty and 

923
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:19,900
thanks for coming on thing at a 
time and thanks for all the good

924
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:22,200
work you doing. 
If that cap, I'm excited to see,

925
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:25,200
you know where it goes. 
And you know all the all the new

926
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,100
developers that are going to 
come into the industry and also 

927
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:31,500
of course, to follow along and 
see where your journey. 

928
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,900
I will take you next. 
I'm sure you go on to do. 

929
00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:37,800
Lots of lots more, cool things 
in crypto and Beyond. 

930
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,700
Yeah. 
Thank you, awesome. 

931
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:43,900
Thanks fine. 
So yeah, thanks again for 

932
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:47,300
listening for tuning in. 
If you want to support the show,

933
00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:50,700
leave us not to interview, share
the podcast, or let us know on 

934
00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:53,400
Twitter what you think and of 
course we'll put links to you 

935
00:53:53,408 --> 00:53:57,000
know the things pretty mention 
to our newsletter that camp Etc 

936
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,300
in the show notes and yeah 
thanks so much for tuning in and

937
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:01,900
we look forward to being back 
next week. 

938
00:54:04,300 --> 00:54:06,100
Thank you for joining us on this
week's episode. 

939
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,100
We release new episodes every 
week. 

940
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,400
You can find And subscribe to 
the show on iTunes Spotify, 

941
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,500
YouTube SoundCloud or wherever 
you listen to podcast. 

942
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,700
And if you have a Google home or
Alexa device, you can tell it to

943
00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:20,600
listen to the latest episode of 
the epicenter podcast, go to 

944
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,800
epicenter, .t V /, subscribe for
a full list of places where you 

945
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,300
can watch and listen, while 
you're there, be sure to sign up

946
00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:29,200
for the newsletter so you get 
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947
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,500
they're released if you want to 
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948
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:35,800
podcast listeners, you can Us on
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949
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,600
review on iTunes helps people 
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950
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,700
happy to read them with thanks 
so much and we look forward to 

951
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:42,600
being back next week.