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In my book, I take more to this 
finishing of creativity as a 

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process and that's our process 
of developing ourselves, 

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developing our ability to create
and bring novelty in our 

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professional life. 
So creativity is more defined 

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from inside out in my book. 
What do you think of your 

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creativity and how can you use 
it in your professional life? 

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Hey everyone. 
My name is Henry Surya, we 

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Robin. 
And you're listening to the 

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00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,500
Tecla Journal, podcast the show,
where I'll be bringing you the 

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00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:42,700
greatest technical leaders 
practitioners and thought 

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00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,100
leaders in the industry to 
discuss about their Journey 

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ideas and practices that we all 
can learn and apply to build a 

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00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,400
highly performing technical team
and to make an impact in your 

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00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,600
personal work. 
So let's dive into our Journal. 

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00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,600
Hello again to you my listeners,
welcome to the technology. 

16
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,500
You know, podcast the show where
you can learn about technical 

17
00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:11,800
leadership and Excellence from 
my conversations with great 

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00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,500
thought, leaders in the tech 
industry. 

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If this is your first time 
listening to tackle a journal, 

20
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,800
don't forget to subscribe and 
follow the show on your podcast 

21
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,500
app and on LinkedIn, Twitter and
Instagram and to support my 

22
00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:26,000
journey. 
Creating this podcast, subscribe

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00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,300
as a patron at technology. 
No, dot f /, Patron. 

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00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,700
My guest, for today's episode is
dr. 

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Hannah Welker lightening dr. 
Hannah is a neuro leadership 

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coach and the author of how to 
develop your creative identity 

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at work, in this episode dr. 
Hannah shared, how we can 

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develop our creative identity at
work. 

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And in our personal life, she 
first started by describing the 

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definition of creativity in her 
book, its relation with 

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intelligence and explained why 
creativity is important for 

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maintaining our sense of 
Engagement and Motivation dr. 

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Hannah outlined the four 
different types of thinking that

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can help us Foster. 
Our creative diversity and 

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shared several tips on how to 
explore our creativity. 

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By channeling our curiosity, 
choosing our audience, finding 

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time for Creative work and 
overcoming the fear of 

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rejection. 
Dr. Horner also shared some 

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potential barriers hindering our
creativity at work and why we 

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should avoid them to Foster more
creative Innovations. 

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I really enjoyed my conversation
with dr. 

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Hannah and I also shared a few 
things related to my own 

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creative Journey, including how 
I ended up doing this podcast. 

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If you are someone who are 
looking to exercise more of your

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00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,400
creativity, either at work, or 
at personal life, or even 

46
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,600
thinking of starting your own 
creative Journey, then you need 

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to listen to this episode and 
hopefully it will give you some 

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00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:57,800
inspiration in the end. 
If you find this episode useful,

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please help, share it with more 
people. 

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00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,800
Also, they can also benefit from
listening to this episode. 

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00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,600
Also leave this podcast of 5 
star rating and review on Apple 

52
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,800
podcast and Spotify. 
It will help me a lot to make 

53
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,800
this podcast easily discovered 
by other listeners. 

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00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:15,200
Let's go to the conversation 
with dr. 

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Horner after hearing some words 
from our sponsors. 

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Today's episode is proudly 
sponsored by skills matter. 

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00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,900
The global community and events 
platform with more than 100,000 

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Can organize their Experiences 
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They care about most you get 
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So we're the devops our data 
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fan of functional programming or
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You can make real connections 
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interests head on over to skills
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It's free to join and you will 
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latest tech Trends. 
Hello everyone. 

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Welcome back to the new episode 
of the technology on our 

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podcast. 
Today, we have a slightly 

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different kind of gas in our 
podcast today. 

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I'm very excited to meet dr. 
Wanna felt cool. 

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I didn't she's actually a neuro 
leadership coach and trainer 

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focusing on creative thinking. 
She recently just published a 

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book titled, how to develop your
creative identity at work. 

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I think these days. 
So many people are disengaged 

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and not happy and work. 
So maybe we can Channel our 

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creativity at work. 
We may be able to have that 

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engagement and also meaning in 
our work. 

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So, that's why I bring dr. 
One here, so that we can discuss

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a little bit more about 
creativity. 

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And how we can have more job 
satisfaction because that's one 

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of her moto2. 
No job satisfaction. 

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We need to know our creativity. 
So dr. 

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Wanna thank you so much for this
opportunity. 

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Looking forward for the chat. 
Hello Henry. 

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Thank you for Having me here. 
So doctor wanna, I always love 

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to ask my guess in the beginning
to maybe share about the career 

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Journey. 
Specifically on the highlights 

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or any turning points that you 
want to share with the audience 

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here in my twenty Decades of 
career. 

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I'll say that I have two major 
turning points. 

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The first one was when I was a 
freshly graduated after my 

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bachelor degree in economics, I 
realized that, I hardly knew 

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anything about computers and I 
felt so embarrassed. 

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As I had to collect information 
and analyze information in Excel

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which sounds so ready mentally 
at the moment. 

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But that's what I had to do and 
I didn't know how to do it very 

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well. 
So that's like 25 years ago, 

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then I thought that, hey 
somehow, I had the feeling back 

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then that the future belongs to 
technology and I wanted to learn

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more about it. 
So that's one turning point for 

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me when I decided that I want to
understand more about computer. 

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So I applied to our master 
program here in Helsinki, which 

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combined economics with 
information systems. 

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It was really fascinating for me
to actually learn how to do a 

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bit of programming. 
I really loved it, but of 

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course, I felt that maybe that's
not the path to develop. 

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Yes, I tried it for a couple of 
years, and I was teaching it 

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because I worked with Master 
students, in business, teaching 

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them. 
How to understand how computers 

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are built and how databases are 
built and how the database is 

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not connected with the 
interfaces. 

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So that was the first major 
turning point in my career, but 

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then some years later, the And 
turning point, which actually 

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brings me here today is that I 
felt that it was very 

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interesting. 
The research that I was doing on

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how information systems, like, 
Erp systems are used in 

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companies, but I felt that 
that's not my calling that my 

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calling is something else. 
The second turning point was, 

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when I was lucky to find this 
interest, in the psychology of 

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creativity that changed entirely
my career, when I decided to 

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quit, My academic life and move 
on to do knowledge solopreneur 

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ship and that's what I've been 
doing. 

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Maybe for the last seven years 
in the last two years, I've been

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focusing, My Bae seventy percent
of my time, on doing independent

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research, trying to figure out 
this field of creativity and 

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writing about it in a more 
accessible way to people who 

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might benefit from understanding
it. 

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So my two major turning points 
are first. 

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Me wanting to learn more about 
that. 

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Knology programming and 
computers. 

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And the second one may fall in 
love with the psychology of 

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creativity. 
So hence brings you here as well

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in the technology, you know, 
because we have a largely the 

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audience from tech industry. 
I believe there are so many of 

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us here. 
Also waiting to channel our 

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creativity, but let's start with
the obvious question. 

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This is probably open-ended 
discussion. 

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What do you mean by creativity? 
For example, myself. 

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I don't actually categorize 
myself as creative. 

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I always think creativity is 
something like someone who can 

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produce beautiful. 
Full artistic results, maybe 

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it's paintings, maybe drawings, 
or whatever that is or have good

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eyes for beautiful colors and 
things like that. 

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And I never associate myself as 
being a creative person more 

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like logical person. 
But in your book actually, you 

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have probably a little bit 
different definition of what is 

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creativity. 
So let's start from there. 

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What do you think is the 
definition of creativity? 

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Maybe for people to get the same
context? 

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Yes, I was the same like you and
probably also our listeners are 

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identifying with the creativity,
more in the artistic sense of 

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creative. 
If I take the most standard 

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definition in research and that 
is like creativity as a type of 

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thinking the ability to combine 
the information that you have 

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and come up with an idea that is
like interesting and useful for 

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the people you are working with.
So this is the standard way 

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creativity as a thinking. 
But in my book I take more to 

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this finishin of creativity as a
process and that's our process 

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of developing ourselves 
developing our ability to To 

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create and bring novelty in our 
professional life. 

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So that's the focus of 
creativity on my book, how to 

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develop your understanding of, 
what kind of creative person you

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are. 
And how can we experiment with 

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that identity in the everyday 
life? 

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So creativity is more defined 
from inside out in my book. 

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What do you think of your 
creativity and how can you use 

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it in your professional life? 
And like you said, this 

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understanding that we have 
creativity as a Artistic type of

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talent like drawing or painting.
If you feel that though, I don't

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resonate with that, then this 
means that maybe you are going 

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to stay away from all those 
professional domains where this 

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kind of skills are needed. 
But of course, like I described 

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in my book, there are so many 
other impulses within ourselves 

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that we can decide to pay 
attention to and bring them in 

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our professional life. 
Yes. 

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Maybe we are not very talented 
drawing. 

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People. 
And we are not going to be like 

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anything to do with design, but 
maybe we are like very good 

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programmers and maybe we like 
one particular programming 

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language. 
That's what we want to focus on 

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and to develop it into a master 
competence and into some 

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Innovative products. 
So if I made try to summarize so

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it's a type of thinking right? 
Trying to First understand about

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ourselves and then afterwards 
there's a exploration process to

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try to bring some kind of 
novelty novelty here. 

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That doesn't mean that I always 
have to be out of the box 

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thinking. 
It could be is just novelty in 

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personal life. 
And at the end there should be 

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an outcome as a result of that, 
which brings like a cycle of 

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creativity because 
experimentation and trying to 

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build something. 
You know, bring an outcome may 

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actually come up with something 
even new maybe for the world or 

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it could be just for a personal 
life. 

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Yes, that's a good summary. 
So creativity, as a thinking, 

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and then experimenting different
experimentations and then 

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00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:57,300
reflected in this outcome of 
novelty, this novelty can be 

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00:10:57,300 --> 00:10:59,300
something for a particular 
audience. 

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Maybe for some people, they 
don't need it but you have some 

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00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:06,200
type of people in your mind when
you're experimenting with your 

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00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,800
ideas. 
That's one thing that when I 

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00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,500
read your book, you mentioned 
that a lot of people will feel a

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00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:16,100
sense of disengagement and 
hopelessness when they are not 

206
00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,600
able to channel this creativity 
and again coming back to my 

207
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,200
statement earlier, right? 
For some people who categorized 

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00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,400
I'm not creative. 
That means I block away a few 

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00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,300
areas that I could possibly do 
to channel the Activity. 

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00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,900
So what is the relation about 
channeling, creativity and a 

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00:11:33,908 --> 00:11:37,900
sense of Engagement and hope in 
our, maybe professional life and

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00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:41,300
also personal life. 
Yes, it's very important to be 

213
00:11:41,300 --> 00:11:45,500
very aware of how we feel about 
the work activities, we are 

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00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:48,700
doing. 
If it's hopelessness, we have to

215
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,600
develop a new sense of hope. 
And what does it mean? 

216
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,100
Hope to start looking around you
to start to be proactive in your

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00:11:57,100 --> 00:12:00,500
environment and create 
opportunities for For yourself 

218
00:12:00,500 --> 00:12:04,900
where you can try out new 
activities or it can be like 

219
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:08,800
learning new skills, or it can 
mean likely reaching out to 

220
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,700
other colleagues who are doing 
some projects that might be 

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00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:15,000
interesting to you. 
So being this person who takes 

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00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,500
basically your life in control, 
that's basically the underlying 

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00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,600
idea. 
That's what I also have done. 

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00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,100
When I had this career change, I
had this period of trying out, 

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00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:30,600
my sense of hope, by first of 
all, When I left from the 

226
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,400
Academia going to some coaching 
programs and then after ended 

227
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,800
the coaching programs, I went, 
and I design my own courses, I 

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00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,500
learned how to do marketing. 
I tried I experimented with 

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00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:47,100
different skills, new activities
for me, scary stuff. 

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00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,600
But you know, like, until that 
point, when I got to find my 

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00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,600
interest in the psychology of 
creativity and then slowly my 

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sense of hope grew and then 
naturally, then when you find 

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these types of activities, That 
you know you feel this inner 

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motivation then you know that 
okay, I'm starting to be on the 

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right track for me and you can 
congratulate yourself for all 

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the effort, you made all that 
effort to take yourself from the

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sense of hopelessness to feel 
that I see no possibility for me

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in my life to like slowly 
learning new things thinking. 

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Okay, is this something that it 
is for me? 

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Maybe yes, maybe no, how can I 
recycle it? 

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How can I use it in order to get
there because In each one of us,

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there are some activities for 
which we can have an inner sense

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of motivation. 
Thanks for sharing your story, 

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doctor one. 
And so a few things that I pick 

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up from what you said. 
Just now the one thing is that 

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we should not be afraid of 
experimenting even though we try

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one thing and if it doesn't 
bring satisfaction, there may be

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other things that we could 
explore. 

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And when we have found that 
hopefully there is some sense of

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hope and it will bring us new 
energy and new kind of 

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Engagement. 
So that's one thing that I pick 

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up another thing that I just 
want to mention as well as part 

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of again, my research, reading 
your book is you mentioned in 

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the book that there is no Ian 
between intelligence and being 

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creative because you said that 
above a certain IQ may be in 

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this case around 120, it's more 
about personality factors, like,

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it's your motivation. 
And it's your wisdom that are 

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more important than intelligence
to be able to produce more 

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creative work. 
So, tell us more about this 

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interesting research because 
some people associate, again, 

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creativity with intelligence. 
I'm not creative, I'm not 

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intelligence, so I have no hope.
So maybe if you can demystify, 

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some of these limiting belief, 
Yeah, I found very interesting 

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This research where they are 
showing that above an IQ of 120,

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it's more important to have this
inner motivation to learn new 

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skills. 
What you're talking earlier on 

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to keep on acquiring knowledge. 
That's one aspect of why it 

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helps to get creative ideas 
because once you accumulate 

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Knowledge from different fields 
than it's more likely that you 

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can come up with an aspect of 
novelty and then the other 

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aspect of motivation is that 
once you yourself Have found for

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instance a project that you feel
like I'm very motivated on this 

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project. 
It doesn't matter that you are 

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not a Jedi yet. 
It's just matters that you have 

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the perseverance, some people 
call it greed. 

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Some people who is stubbornness,
but you have this desire to keep

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on pushing through the 
challenges just to see that 

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project completed successfully. 
So that's why motivation and 

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wisdom, count more above an IQ, 
a certain IQ because they are 

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00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000
helping us to choose what new 
activities to learn. 

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And also, they help us be more 
productive and then the more 

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projects you do, the faster you 
complete them. 

283
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,400
The more you may get to do that 
project for which, you know, you

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get recognized. 
So again, for those of us who 

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have limiting belief, like, for 
example, I'm not creative, I'm 

286
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,400
not intelligent, maybe it's a 
certain point or we should not 

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just have that limiting belief 
all the time. 

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So the two key things that dr. 
Want to mention is about 

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collecting wisdom so I'm sure 
everyone of you read books. 

290
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,700
Listen to podcast like this and 
also watch YouTube videos. 

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Eating wisdom may be talking to 
other people as well, but the 

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second aspect is to have 
personal motivation. 

293
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So the kind of perseverance grit
to always try to explore. 

294
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Maybe apply the wisdom that you 
have and create something novel.

295
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:19,800
Maybe now, people are like 
motivated. 

296
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,100
They have some inner belief that
they can do. 

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So they want to become a 
Creator. 

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00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,500
So, part of this personal 
biases, that we are not 

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creative. 
There's a second aspect that 

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00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,700
normally stop people from trying
to be creative. 

301
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,900
It is the fear of rejection or 
what they create. 

302
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,800
Maybe it's not perceived as Good
enough for this. 

303
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,800
Maybe you have some advice here 
as well. 

304
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,200
Yeah, this fear of rejection is 
like we all have it because if 

305
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,500
we take an evolutionary 
perspective, we human beings 

306
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:48,000
develop in small tribes in small
groups. 

307
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,500
It was very important to be 
accepted by the other people and

308
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:53,800
we still carry on with us this 
fear. 

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00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,700
And if you just think about, you
know, like, take a moment when 

310
00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:00,100
probably each one of us have 
been in this meetings, when 

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00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:03,000
there is silence, at one point 
and nobody says, anything. 

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00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,700
And you would be tempted to say,
To say something that's one 

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00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:11,200
context where we can check, you 
know, like How brave are we to 

314
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,000
actually speak out? 
And just say, hey I think this 

315
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,500
problem can be solved this way. 
So this fear of rejection can 

316
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:22,000
keep many of us from trying to 
move from this place of 

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00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,500
hopelessness, where we find 
ourselves at the moment because 

318
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,099
we may think that it's going to 
be a failure. 

319
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:30,100
And I'm just going to embarrass 
myself. 

320
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:33,900
I have to be honest, that I also
had this fear when I decided to 

321
00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:38,200
leave from the First of all, I 
was afraid how I'm gonna be 

322
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,900
judged. 
Are my former colleagues going 

323
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:43,500
to think that I'm not smart 
enough for living. 

324
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,400
The Academia are my future 
clients gonna sink the same 

325
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,000
that? 
Oh, she just couldn't be a 

326
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,500
successful professor, and look 
at her now she changed. 

327
00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:56,100
So each one of us, depending of 
what is the professional 

328
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:57,400
context? 
Where we find? 

329
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,300
We have certain types of fears 
about how we are going to be 

330
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,900
judged by others. 
That's of course. 

331
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:07,400
It's up to each one of Of us. 
But what I'm urging in the book 

332
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,600
is just to give ourselves the 
chance. 

333
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:11,700
Let's start. 
Maybe a small steps. 

334
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,700
You don't have to make this 
like, big career change but 

335
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,400
starting small steps there are, 
you know, in the professional 

336
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,900
role that you have try to be in 
a way more like intrapreneurial.

337
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,700
As I said a bit earlier, just be
proactive. 

338
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,100
Get involved in projects. 
I know that when you hear get 

339
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:30,300
involved in projects, this 
sounds like ouch. 

340
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:34,400
I'm already so loaded in work 
but we have to be very careful 

341
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,200
also. 
I thought the important things 

342
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,600
for us, what are the priorities?
And the way I see it and that's 

343
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,900
why I wrote the book. 
The priority is to save 

344
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:45,800
ourselves in the sense that it's
a shame to not to explore this 

345
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,100
potential, which comes from our 
creative personality speaking 

346
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,900
about having the urge to try 
experiment, right? 

347
00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,400
You mentioned this in the book 
as the creative motivation. 

348
00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:00,200
So, for us who may have a 
creative block so to speak. 

349
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,000
Right in our mind, we don't know
what kind of ideas to explore. 

350
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,900
So you mentioned about four 
types of Inking here which are 

351
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:09,600
imaginative thinking, curiosity,
inspiration, and motivation. 

352
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,900
So, maybe if you can maybe brief
us on these type of different 

353
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,700
thinking so that we can spark 
new ideas in our head. 

354
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:18,200
How can we utilize this for 
types of thinking? 

355
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,000
It's so amazing. 
Hey, that you picked up on this 

356
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,100
part from the book. 
Because actually, this is a very

357
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:26,700
important part of the book where
I talked about opening up to our

358
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:30,000
creative diversity. 
That is in each one of us, we 

359
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,100
can start by just thinking when 
you think about yourself about 

360
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:38,500
your, Is, how would you define? 
Would you see yourself as an 

361
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,700
imaginative person? 
Like, in this case imaginative, 

362
00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,700
it doesn't mean that you are 
like ready to write a science 

363
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,200
fiction. 
Are you the kind of person who 

364
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,800
sometimes looks what happens in 
work and you are thinking well 

365
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:56,800
what if we do something else. 
So imaginative thinking do you 

366
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,700
see yourself as this kind of 
person who has ideas? 

367
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:01,600
What if we could do something 
else? 

368
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,900
So this is one way to open up to
our creative diversity. 

369
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,800
City. 
But then there is the 

370
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,100
inspiration way if the second 
way. 

371
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,800
Do you see yourself more like 
this kind of person who is open 

372
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,900
up to reading information from 
different fields and that you 

373
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:19,700
are one of these people that 
want to open up to read 

374
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,300
information from different 
fields, not only from your 

375
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:25,000
domains. 
This is another way to look for 

376
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,200
this creative diversity in you 
and to make space in your own 

377
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,500
mind about what new projects you
might want to start. 

378
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:38,300
Then the Third Way. 
Is being motivated looking at 

379
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:42,400
people around you and see who 
are those people who themselves 

380
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,000
feel. 
Very interesting, really 

381
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,500
motivated. 
And that you would want to 

382
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,100
become like them. 
So these are three ways through 

383
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,600
which we can open up to this 
creative at diversity, which 

384
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,000
will lead us to this moment when
you think. 

385
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,900
Okay, these types of projects, I
want to get involved more with 

386
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,400
and of the Curiosity it's to be 
courageous. 

387
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:06,300
And to think okay if I I'm 
curious about something that 

388
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,700
happens at work, I'm just going 
to follow it up. 

389
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,500
I'm going to find that time to 
understand what other colleagues

390
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,300
in what other projects are 
doing. 

391
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,300
So do not because of the excuse 
that we don't have enough time. 

392
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,800
We shouldn't shut down our 
curiosity. 

393
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,200
I mean, the always good 
storyline when we talk about 

394
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,100
curiosity is that think of us, 
all of us when we are in 

395
00:21:27,100 --> 00:21:29,300
childhood. 
So, all of us are curious, we 

396
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:31,400
don't know anything. 
We try different things. 

397
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,400
Hence, if you want to look at 
the true application of It is. 

398
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,600
When you look at all the 
children, they are being 

399
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,000
created. 
Because of curiosity, I guess, 

400
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,500
for some adults. 
We forget that and as we grow 

401
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,900
and we have a career, we don't 
actually explore curiosity and 

402
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:48,900
just do the task at hand or 
things that are in plate. 

403
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:52,300
Yes, actually. 
I am talking about this as one 

404
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:55,100
strategy to become more Curious 
in the book. 

405
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:58,400
I recommend that we go back to 
the childhood and we try to 

406
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,900
remember, what are those 
activities that we are naturally

407
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:04,800
doing when we were children? 
For instance, for me writing, 

408
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:09,200
Was something that was naturally
doing and then try to bring to 

409
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,900
the present those activities. 
What else could you be doing 

410
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,200
like it for me was writing when 
I was a child? 

411
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,500
I was writing poems. 
What else would I be doing? 

412
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,400
Now, in the present, I wrote a 
book in the same way with you. 

413
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,500
What activity did you do as a 
child? 

414
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,200
There are few things that I like
reading books and also listening

415
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,900
to so called elder. 
People talking about their 

416
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:31,700
experience and their journey and
teaching. 

417
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:35,500
So it's something that I love to
do when I was younger as Maybe 

418
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:38,000
in the image aspect. 
Yeah, those are some of the 

419
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,100
things that I remember on top of
my head. 

420
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,200
Okay, cool. 
You are doing any one of these 

421
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,300
now, like the teaching talking 
to the elderly, I guess, looking

422
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,400
back and connecting the dots 
with this podcast, for example, 

423
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,800
right? 
I like reading. 

424
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,400
So, that's why before the 
interview with all the guests. 

425
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,600
I like to research and try to 
come up with different topics 

426
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,100
and ideas what to ask. 
And then we are speaking about 

427
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,800
elderly, I'm not referring you 
as elderly but I guess people 

428
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,400
who have wisdom. 
So I like talking and Learn from

429
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,400
this kind of people and 
teaching. 

430
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,200
Hopefully, one day I can also 
channel that again maybe one day

431
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,600
I would find the Avenue for 
that. 

432
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,600
I guess. 
That's wonderful. 

433
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,700
So you are the embodiment that 
it works, this strategy that I 

434
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,600
talked about and I have tried it
on my skin. 

435
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:25,700
Do you also show it that if you 
bring what you like to do from 

436
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:28,100
childhood? 
To now, when you are a grown-up 

437
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,200
and updated version number to 
the adult version and then there

438
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,000
is another way through which we 
can Explore More our curiosity 

439
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,700
because also we may not know 
what we are curious about now. 

440
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,600
So another way is to think about
what senses we are using. 

441
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:49,100
And for instance, some of us can
be using a lot of our 

442
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:52,000
intellectual abilities. 
We are sitting in front of the 

443
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,100
computer typing thinking in a 
logical way, watching Code 

444
00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:00,300
reviewing code, but what other 
senses could you be using in 

445
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:02,900
your case? 
If I give you as an example, you

446
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:06,100
are using this ability to 
communicate with people to 

447
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:09,200
listen to people and to 
understand their world of view, 

448
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:13,600
which I guess it could be 2:01 
discovering new. 

449
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,600
Curiosities, this is the beauty 
of human dialogue that you can 

450
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,700
never know what great idea comes
during the dialogue. 

451
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:24,100
This is another way to think 
each one of us can make time, 

452
00:24:24,100 --> 00:24:27,100
you know, like once per week, 
every two weeks to do something 

453
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,300
else it happened outside talking
in another podcast with the 

454
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:32,600
podcast and she said, exactly 
the same thing. 

455
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:37,300
She realized that all that she 
does Does is to talk with people

456
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:40,800
in the academic world and right?
And then she was to this 

457
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,800
Festival where they're like many
creative people. 

458
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:47,600
Her mind just opened up to so 
many other activities that she 

459
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,600
could do to compliment her 
professional activities. 

460
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,900
And this is in reaching putting 
more activities that are 

461
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:56,400
complementing. 
Our senses. 

462
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,800
It's enriching for us, it's more
fuel for creativity. 

463
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,800
I guess it makes sense. 
Looking at my journey although I

464
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,900
mean to be frank, I don't start 
by thinking what is my childhood

465
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:08,200
curiosity? 
What are the habits that I had? 

466
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,300
I actually connected back, 
connecting the dots looking back

467
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:14,200
and yeah it makes sense that I 
enjoy what I'm doing. 

468
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,000
Now speaking about senses, I 
wasn't that talkative when I was

469
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,100
childhood as well. 
I guess what I'm trying to say 

470
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:23,300
is that you can explore the 
senses and maybe hey, this time,

471
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:25,900
you will enjoy differently than 
your childhood. 

472
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,100
So I guess it's more about 
exploration experimenting and 

473
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:31,400
see what gives us energy. 
Energy at this point in time. 

474
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,700
So don't give up saying that you
are not good at something maybe 

475
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,100
because you just didn't find it 
at the right time. 

476
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:39,800
That's all I'm trying to say 
exactly exactly. 

477
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:43,200
At the end of the day, when we 
feel like we could do so much 

478
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,500
more and at the same time we 
feel that we don't see what else

479
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,200
we could do. 
There is this aspect of chance 

480
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,000
of serendipity that somebody 
from the external environment 

481
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,500
comes to offer us? 
I know a project and then we say

482
00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:01,500
aha that's what I was missing 
but until The Serendipity or 

483
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:04,100
lock happens. 
We have to take within our 

484
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:09,100
control and explore this sides 
of ourselves like this curiosity

485
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:12,400
and the motivation, and the 
imagination, whatever comes a 

486
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,300
bit more natural because some of
us may think that I'm not 

487
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:17,300
Daydreamer. 
I'm not, you know, the kind of 

488
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:20,200
person to look around at what 
happens at work and say, Hey, 

489
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,100
what if we do this? 
What if we do that? 

490
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:25,900
But maybe, as I said, we are the
kind of person who like to open 

491
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,800
up to new information, by 
reading from diverse field. 

492
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:33,600
Or maybe you are the kind of 
person who wants to be motivated

493
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,900
by surrounding yourself with 
motivated people, or to be this 

494
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:40,300
curious, person, trying 
different senses, or remembering

495
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:41,900
what we used to do, when we were
kids. 

496
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,200
That's why I talked about three 
strategies actually to develop 

497
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,400
the Curiosity because maybe it's
not enough. 

498
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,400
What we did when your kids and 
what fascinated us at that time,

499
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,300
was the result of our 
environment where we lived. 

500
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,000
But the most interesting thing 
is to look at ourselves now in 

501
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,300
the environment where we are 
now, and with the mind that we 

502
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:01,000
have now with the with, Some 
that we have now with the 

503
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,400
knowledge that they have now and
with the new motivation that we 

504
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,300
have as well, right? 
We get inspired by many people, 

505
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:10,100
maybe it's from YouTube, maybe 
it's from podcast, maybe it's 

506
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:13,200
from this everydays life. 
Another important thing that I 

507
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,100
pick up in your book which is 
something with to discuss as 

508
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:19,400
well, because many people may be
creative by themselves. 

509
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,700
They create a lot of the 
beautiful things, maybe poems, 

510
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,400
novels, whatever, but they never
publish it, or maybe don't share

511
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,000
with other people in your book. 
Actually, you mentioned that 

512
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,800
without an audience. 
There's no purpose to create 

513
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,900
anything, so tell us why the 
importance of having this 

514
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:40,100
audience in creativity. 
I personally find it very 

515
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:43,900
important because when you have 
an audience for which you want 

516
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:48,600
to create the product Gadget or 
book or a service, when you have

517
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,400
an audience in your mind, it 
helps you Channel your 

518
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,800
creativity. 
We take as an example of me, 

519
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,400
writing this book, if I would 
have had no audience in my mind.

520
00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:59,900
Probably it would have been more
like a diary. 

521
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,600
Of a book like me telling my 
stories but just because I had 

522
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,800
an audience and the audience who
are the people who are very 

523
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,500
smart, very capable and they 
have a creativity in them, this 

524
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,400
was my audience and this 
challenge me this gave me the 

525
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,200
challenge to write the best that
I can. 

526
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:22,100
So that's why I think when we 
want to grow our creative 

527
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:23,900
potential is very important to 
me. 

528
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:24,700
Okay. 
Who is it? 

529
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:29,200
That I want to create for this 
gives also the direction just to

530
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,000
think about the The information 
that you express and to be also 

531
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,800
like empathetic for your 
audience and to make the best 

532
00:28:36,808 --> 00:28:40,400
work that you can. 
So that's why reading with your 

533
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,100
audience in mind is first of 
all, developing your creative 

534
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:45,800
potential, but at the same time 
finding that right balance 

535
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,900
between the world, what are the 
needs of the world? 

536
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:53,100
What is it that it's my need to 
create, it has to be a bit of 

537
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:57,200
balance between these two. 
So I guess some people may not 

538
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,500
share with the audience simply 
because again, coming back to 

539
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:01,800
the first When do we have, is 
the fear of rejection. 

540
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:04,900
But again, your point here is 
that, if you have an audience 

541
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:08,100
first, they will challenge you 
to produce something at best. 

542
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,300
Maybe it's not the best, perfect
version. 

543
00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:13,000
But at least, you will have some
motivation to actually produce 

544
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,700
something that is better rather 
than if you just produce it for 

545
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:18,000
yourself. 
Another important aspect that 

546
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,400
you mentioned is about 
Direction. 

547
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,200
So when you have a specific set 
of audience in mind, that kind 

548
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,000
of like Narrows down the scope 
of what you need to produce 

549
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,500
rather than creating it for many
different types of people in the

550
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,200
world. 
You can have a specific set of 

551
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,600
audience. 
And direct your creativity 

552
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,500
towards them rather than 
building it for everyone. 

553
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:37,900
And also like I was thinking now
about in your case, with the 

554
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:40,600
podcast, how did you choose your
audience? 

555
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,900
Well, it's a very interesting 
question because to me, it's 

556
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:46,300
very straightforward. 
I always work in the tech 

557
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:48,500
industry. 
I still love researching about 

558
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:53,300
tech, but I want to mix it with 
leadership because I feel that 

559
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:55,200
one aspect that is probably not 
yet. 

560
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,600
Explored in details. 
It's about how to apply 

561
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,900
leadership in the technology 
world or industry. 

562
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,100
Another part of selfish reason 
is for me as well to learn 

563
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:06,500
because it's part of my role. 
I need to upskill myself in this

564
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:09,900
area, take leadership. 
So that brings me to why I'm 

565
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:12,600
doing this podcast. 
Why would you say that? 

566
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,100
It's selfish reason in that? 
Because I think that at the end 

567
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:21,000
of the day, any creative process
involves the learning of the 

568
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,500
Creator. 
You develop you transform 

569
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:27,600
yourself, you gain knowledge 
because of course, all that you 

570
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,900
learn is going to be used or 
maybe not all. 

571
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,000
But part of it is going to be 
used for the audience. 

572
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:36,200
Thanks for explaining that. 
Yes, because I myself believe 

573
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,400
that even though I cannot 
consume all this knowledge 

574
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,700
because there are so many of 
them every week, I produce one, 

575
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:42,600
at least. 
When I share with other people, 

576
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,800
they will learn something that 
piques their interest doesn't 

577
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,800
have to be all episodes. 
But if people learn something in

578
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,300
one episode, I'm personally very
happy as well to hear about 

579
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:54,100
that. 
Which brings us to the next 

580
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:55,700
topic. 
The old title of the book is 

581
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,900
actually about creativity at 
work these days when I said in 

582
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:02,000
the industry, there's a train 
Disengagement people feel, they 

583
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,400
are not motivated. 
So what do you think are the 

584
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,200
biggest barriers to creativity 
in work or in teams that you see

585
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,700
maybe part of your research or 
part of your industry research 

586
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,200
as well? 
The first barrier that I think 

587
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,800
is the interactions between team
members. 

588
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:21,600
I believe that in order to have 
a team where people can express 

589
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,200
their ideas. 
First of all ideas about what 

590
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,900
new projects to take in ideas 
about how to implement a project

591
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:32,500
in order to have this in. 
Environment of fertile, exchange

592
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:36,000
of ideas, you need a good 
communication between team 

593
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,200
members, in my opinion, and 
based on the research and 

594
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400
experience that I had sometimes 
there are some themes where we 

595
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,000
have a star performer that can 
put a bit in Shadow the other 

596
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,700
team members and how to 
circumvent that is through 

597
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:56,900
expressing more gratitude for 
the results. 

598
00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:59,900
For the contribution. 
That each team member May 

599
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,400
Because when other team members 
feel ignored, or they feel that,

600
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,700
I know why should I bother? 
Because there is the best 

601
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:08,700
program right here, who does 
everything. 

602
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:12,300
Then usually should be the team 
leader responsibility to help 

603
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:15,800
bring visibility to everybody's 
contribution in the team. 

604
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,400
I also want to probably bring up
other parts of research. 

605
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:23,400
Those research says that if you 
want to be more engaged in work 

606
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,300
you have to be given more trust.
Some people may refer to this as

607
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:29,600
psychological safety. 
These days is quite trendy. 

608
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,400
When you have psychological 
safety in the team, maybe they 

609
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,700
are able to express freely. 
What is in their mind challenge 

610
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:39,400
ideas, maybe also propose ideas 
and not afraid to try new 

611
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,600
things. 
Coming back to trust is that 

612
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,400
when you are given trust, by the
leaders that you can do certain 

613
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,900
things, I guess people will find
inner intrinsic motivation to 

614
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:52,400
try the best and probably that's
why the creativity could also be

615
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,000
channeled at work. 
Yeah, that's true. 

616
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:59,000
Trust is the other aspect and I 
would say maybe to give the 

617
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,300
option to choose Choose to 
choose what projects you focus 

618
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:06,300
on and how you organize your 
work. 

619
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,700
That's how the human brain gets 
more motivated in social 

620
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:13,100
interaction when you feel that 
it's up to you to choose between

621
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,100
A and B. 
Do I choose on task a, what do I

622
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:19,100
choose task, B, and then when 
you have this feeling that I 

623
00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:21,200
chose it, then you are more 
motivated. 

624
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:24,800
Some people refer to it as more 
autonomy, more outcome driven, 

625
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,100
you are given the word, but the 
how you figure it out yourself 

626
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,600
and I think there are few 
phrases in the Book that I like,

627
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,800
which I quoted, right. 
So, it's easier to work on 

628
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,500
projects that your leaders 
assigned to you, for example. 

629
00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:38,400
But are you actually working on 
the jobs that match your 

630
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,400
creativity and the jobs that you
like? 

631
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:42,900
The other one is imposed goals, 
can be creased 

632
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,100
self-determination to engage 
spontaneously in Creative 

633
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,000
action. 
So I guess the message for all 

634
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,500
leaders is that sometimes to 
give room for people options for

635
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:55,100
people to actually explore the 
creative ways of solving a 

636
00:33:55,108 --> 00:33:57,300
problem. 
Not necessarily always low level

637
00:33:57,300 --> 00:33:59,900
test. 
Precisely. 

638
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:03,600
It's a challenge for leaders but
it's again, a question of 

639
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,200
choosing between having an 
environment where people are low

640
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,500
on energy or having an 
environment where people feel so

641
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:12,800
alive and feel good in their own
skin. 

642
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:15,199
If I were a leader, I will 
choose the second. 

643
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,000
So for people who like exploring
creativity for their own 

644
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,600
personal life, for example, for 
myself, I'm doing this podcast 

645
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000
outside of work. 
So to speak, you mentioned about

646
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,900
trying to come up with a 
creative motivation or in He 

647
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:30,900
also mentioned about creative 
impulses. 

648
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,100
So maybe having an Impulse to 
always try to create something. 

649
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:37,800
So many people, these days are 
overloaded, maybe at work or 

650
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,600
personal life. 
So they think they don't have 

651
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,199
more energy to spend to be 
creative. 

652
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,500
What message or advice would you
give to people who think that? 

653
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,699
Yeah, I just don't have enough 
time to do this. 

654
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,000
I would say that once you come 
up with some project to do on 

655
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,199
the side, that's something like 
we do with the podcast, but 

656
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,300
that's something that you chose 
because you Are genuinely 

657
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,800
curious about it. 
Then you get so much more energy

658
00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:06,400
and then you may find yourself 
being more productive, when you 

659
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,400
go to work, having this 
part-time or not part-time side,

660
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,100
work project that give you lots 
of energy, can be this 

661
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:17,000
intermediary period of 
experiment between that moment 

662
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,500
of hopelessness and the moment 
of Hope. 

663
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,300
But it's like there are needed 
to try out and to see what is it

664
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:27,300
that you can actually make it 
into a sustainable project that 

665
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:30,900
you get stable in. 
Before then I just wanted to say

666
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:34,400
that I happen to know some 
people who have spent many years

667
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,700
of their life, kind of having 
two types of job, they're like 

668
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:41,300
pay job and this side job that 
works also. 

669
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:45,000
But what is important is as I 
said the fact that you find a 

670
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,400
way to get more energy, more 
inspiration and to feel more 

671
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,900
empowered and to feel that you 
are good at performing 

672
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:53,800
something. 
I think this is very important 

673
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,000
for us for human beings and for 
the people, I wrote the book 

674
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,800
with that, we are the kind of Of
people that we want to feel that

675
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,600
I am good at this activity. 
I chose that activity and I have

676
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,400
the right skills for this amount
of Challenge. 

677
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,000
And also, speaking from my 
personal experience, you don't 

678
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,600
have to start big. 
I guess, you could always start 

679
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,300
something small, have an 
audience of maybe your family 

680
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:20,200
member of your friends to start 
with. 

681
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,400
But the key is to have the 
Cadence because the more you 

682
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,500
create actually the more that 
you will exercise this, and if 

683
00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:29,900
it really brings you energy, you
can He continued it for long. 

684
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,500
Like, for example, in this 
podcast, I've done two and a 

685
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:34,400
half years. 
If you look back in the 

686
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,600
beginning, maybe I think I would
struggle as well to produce 

687
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,800
this, but now looking back, two 
and a half years later where did

688
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,400
the energy come from? 
I guess it's also partly of the 

689
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,900
motivation and also partly that 
you enjoy this activity so that 

690
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,900
you can continue experimenting. 
And maybe one day, hey you can 

691
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:52,800
reach that point as well. 
So I think the key message don't

692
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,900
always start big try to do small
and see exactly. 

693
00:36:57,100 --> 00:37:01,800
And also like to avoid Avoid to 
have this expectations that like

694
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,200
after two years of broadcasting,
if I don't get to how many 

695
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,300
followers or you know, like not 
to have this finite results for 

696
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:12,500
yourself because talking about 
being creative and seeing 

697
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:15,700
possibilities, that's gonna kill
the creativity. 

698
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:18,900
And then we, again, we are going
to discourage ourselves and we 

699
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:22,700
are going to think, oh, this 
hopeless job that I have or role

700
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:26,400
is much better. 
So, just to keep an open mind, 

701
00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:30,600
I'm focusing one week at Time to
organize one episode. 

702
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,900
That one episode, and leave this
open door to the unexpected. 

703
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,500
Yes, speaking about avoiding 
expectations actually. 

704
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,100
Before I started the podcast, I 
did a lot of research as well 

705
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:42,500
about creative life. 
So this is one of the key 

706
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,400
message for me, that kind of 
inspire day-to-day work. 

707
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,300
The message says that we have to
focus on the process of the 

708
00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:50,000
creation rather than the 
results. 

709
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,700
It's not like the results, the 
likes. 

710
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:54,500
How many listeners or how many 
people actually collapse. 

711
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,000
I think it's about the process. 
Like you find yourself in tune 

712
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,200
into the ACT. 
Fatigue and you always produce a

713
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,600
crop out of it. 
If the result is good and the 

714
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,900
people liked it, I guess. 
Yeah. 

715
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:05,700
You can enjoy the results as 
well. 

716
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:08,400
But to avoid this expectation. 
I think it's very key because 

717
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:10,500
like you said right? 
You can kill our motivation. 

718
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,500
If we think it's going to go 
viral but turns out nobody likes

719
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,400
it. 
So I guess that's also not a 

720
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,500
good thing to always hinge on 
right? 

721
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:21,800
Yes it's about faces. 
This results are talking about, 

722
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,400
maybe they are going to make 
sense a bit later on in our 

723
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,300
development in experimenting 
with different projects. 

724
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:32,100
But in the beginning is very 
important to find this sense of 

725
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:36,300
like motivation and fulfillment.
If I would make a parallel in my

726
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:40,000
own book, for instance, I felt 
this sense of fulfillment. 

727
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,100
The moment when I saw my book, 
when I finalize the last 

728
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:48,200
manuscript and then the results 
came, I moved onto the stage and

729
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,100
I wanted to have results. 
When I said, okay I'm very 

730
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:55,000
content with the manuscript but 
now I am to find the publisher. 

731
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:59,600
So the result for me came when 
actually I'm I managed to sign a

732
00:38:59,607 --> 00:39:02,800
contract with the publisher. 
That's an example that when we 

733
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,500
are experimenting with different
projects where we want to find 

734
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:09,800
that sense of what gives us 
energy, what gives us fuel for 

735
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,700
our creativity. 
We have to focus first on being 

736
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:16,200
honest and Phil, does this feel 
meaningful for me? 

737
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:19,600
When the answer is, yes, think 
okay, I'm going to find a way to

738
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,400
see how this is going to be 
accepted by my audience, I did 

739
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,800
have my audience in my mind all 
the time except that I was 

740
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
prioritize. 
More like coming with the ideas,

741
00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:34,400
focusing, the creating going 
with my inspiration with my 

742
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,300
intuition. 
That's what we have to work hard

743
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,300
with ourselves to forget the bit
about results because the 

744
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:43,600
results are very important. 
Also how we perform how others 

745
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,500
are going to appreciate our 
work. 

746
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,200
But yeah, let's give ourselves a
bit of break from that when we 

747
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,900
create yeah, again don't create 
too big of an expectation. 

748
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,600
For example, some people do side
projects in the hope of becoming

749
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,500
a self and true Open or stop 
working and do a full time job 

750
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:03,900
and creative work. 
I guess for some people, it 

751
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:05,900
work, but it is a hard job as 
well. 

752
00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:09,400
So don't forget that creativity 
also involves a lot of hard work

753
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,200
that you have to produce week in
week out. 

754
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,700
No matter what Cadence that you 
want to do nothing. 

755
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:16,200
It is also a hard work behind 
it, but if you enjoy the 

756
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,700
process, I guess the result will
take care of itself. 

757
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:21,200
So dr. 
Wanna you have done this 

758
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,100
research? 
When you write the book is there

759
00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:26,800
anyone surprising thing or 
finding that you have when you 

760
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,300
do the research, maybe you can 
With us, what? 

761
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:31,500
Interesting thing that you find 
from this research. 

762
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:34,200
Yes. 
One thing, it was that I 

763
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,900
surprised myself with the 
perspective that I took on the 

764
00:40:36,908 --> 00:40:40,100
book because in the beginning, I
was thinking that I'm gonna just

765
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:43,500
write a book about how to 
stimulate the creative thinking.

766
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:48,300
So more, like from the outside 
in, I was talking to the reader 

767
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:52,300
and I was telling to the reader,
how to develop their creativity,

768
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,700
through different skills, but 
then I surprised myself, when I 

769
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:59,000
realized that there's lots of 
research done in this, Style, 

770
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,600
the outside in style, I'm doing 
training in that style but then 

771
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,800
I decide know with the book, I 
have to go more like to move the

772
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,000
perspective of the creativity 
from inside out. 

773
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:14,700
How does it feel to be a person 
who has underdeveloped creative 

774
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:17,800
potential? 
But was for me like this aha 

775
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,500
moment, when I decided I'm going
to change gears in research, I'm

776
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:24,800
going to find new research 
papers that focus on the 

777
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,100
creative believes. 
What do you believe about 

778
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:29,600
yourself? 
Creativity. 

779
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,700
How do you see yourself as a 
creative person? 

780
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:36,500
So, I could say, I had two 
stages in writing the book, The 

781
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:40,200
First Stage outside in and then 
the second stage inside out, 

782
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,800
which you also could read. 
So I was just wondering about if

783
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,700
you have read some other books 
on creativity, I was about to 

784
00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:50,500
say, for me, personally, I 
always believed about starting 

785
00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:53,900
from the inside first not to do 
something because of an external

786
00:41:53,900 --> 00:41:56,400
motivation, some people say you 
have to do it from inner 

787
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,600
motivation because first of all 
I think that That will be more 

788
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,800
lasting rather than again, if 
you have big expectations, 

789
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,200
external results and motivation,
right? 

790
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,000
Sometimes when you don't get 
that, then you kind of like, oh,

791
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,500
I feel so wasted. 
I don't know what I'm doing. 

792
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:13,500
People don't understand what I 
did, but if you always start 

793
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:16,200
from yourself, maybe trying to 
find your strength, your 

794
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,900
passion, what brings you energy,
or just the things that you want

795
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:20,800
to explore. 
I think that gives the meaning 

796
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,000
to the cell first if you 
enjoyed, I guess if the results 

797
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:27,100
also enjoyable for the audience,
I think, hey, maybe you have a 

798
00:42:27,107 --> 00:42:29,300
mat, you can continue this. 
Exploration. 

799
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,300
So I believe about Inside Out 
approach as well. 

800
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:35,400
Thanks for sharing the story. 
How you also got this insights 

801
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,900
during your research, maybe if 
you can give tips for listeners 

802
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:41,500
here who want to start. 
Now, they are motivated. 

803
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,400
I guess like, I want to be more 
creative. 

804
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,000
Are there a certain tips or 
advice or insights that you want

805
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,300
to welcome them to try in their 
lives? 

806
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,600
Yes, the first Insight is not to
be afraid to step out of the 

807
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,800
comfort zone. 
It feels uncomfortable. 

808
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,100
That's true. 
True, but it can also be 

809
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:02,000
rewarding. 
What does it mean? 

810
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,200
Step outside the comfort zone is
to actually be active. 

811
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:09,700
We keep on getting back to this 
like, how to use our time and be

812
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:13,600
active in using our time to seek
out for new people to step 

813
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,400
outside the professional sphere.
Just looking at what happens in 

814
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,100
your town. 
What kind of outside work 

815
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:24,600
networking happens there and 
just try it out for instance. 

816
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:27,800
I've been trying out in the last
month with this public speaking 

817
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,200
Club toast. 
Fosters. 

818
00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:32,900
It's another experiment of 
stepping outside of the comfort 

819
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:34,900
zone. 
I would say that it should be a 

820
00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:36,900
habit stepping outside of the 
comfort zone. 

821
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:39,700
I've been doing that ever since 
I decided to go on the 

822
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:42,400
solopreneur shift. 
So this is one thing that I 

823
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,300
would advise. 
Another thing is getting back to

824
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,800
paying attention to what happens
inside us. 

825
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,200
There are some sensitivities in 
US. 

826
00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:55,600
It can be that when we are going
from home to work or going for a

827
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,400
walk, or going to the shop or 
meeting a friend. 

828
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:01,500
We feel something inside. 
Something happens, something 

829
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:04,200
touches us. 
Well, for instance, we can read,

830
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,900
like a post at the cafeteria 
announcing something happening 

831
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:09,900
in town. 
And if best resonates with you, 

832
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,400
please stop and make time for 
it. 

833
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:14,300
Okay, this seems to be 
interesting. 

834
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:16,700
How can I develop it? 
How can I follow it? 

835
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:20,800
This is actually what happened 
to me, seven years ago when I 

836
00:44:20,808 --> 00:44:24,400
was walking in town here in 
Helsinki with my son, my son was

837
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,900
a baby at that time. 
I was pushing the pram and I 

838
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:32,400
pass by This Library where they 
had on the window. 

839
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:36,700
A notice, the notice was saying 
that here we are welcoming 

840
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:40,600
spirituality courses for all the
people from all walks of life, 

841
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,800
and then I was like, wow, that's
very interesting. 

842
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,100
I'm not interested in organizing
a spirituality course, but I'm 

843
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:50,000
going to organize my first 
course, on how to choose 

844
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,600
happiness in your life. 
I felt something strong when I 

845
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,100
saw that notice, and I decided 
to follow it, and I went home 

846
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:00,300
and I started doing research. 
Search on happiness, that's 

847
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:03,600
another domain of knowledge that
I'm passionate about and it 

848
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,600
doesn't sound so easy, as you 
may think. 

849
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:09,200
So, I ended up with the course, 
and I ended up with organizing 

850
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,500
this course, for maybe more than
six months. 

851
00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:14,300
And I met some interesting 
people starting from this 

852
00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:16,100
feeling that, wow, this is 
interesting. 

853
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,600
So these two things, I would 
encourage our listeners in order

854
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,200
to find their inner motivation 
for a particular activity. 

855
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:27,200
First try to make a habit out of
stepping outside of the comfort 

856
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,600
zone and then pay attention. 
Shannon at what touches you when

857
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,900
you seemingly do nothing 
important, just like moving from

858
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:37,100
one place to another. 
Wow, thanks for sharing the 

859
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:40,000
beautiful story, coincidentally.
Actually, it happened to me as 

860
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,100
well. 
Before starting this podcast, I 

861
00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:44,700
was taking a walk. 
I normally take a walk in the 

862
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:47,400
evening and I listen to podcasts
almost all the time. 

863
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,000
During that time, I got inspired
by all this podcasters, then one

864
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,700
day it just spoke my mind. 
Hey, is there any Tech podcast 

865
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:56,100
from this region when I searched
there was none. 

866
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,600
Okay, maybe I could start one. 
So it's just Like a random wild 

867
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,000
idea for me, I kept thinking 
about that the night after the 

868
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,700
day after. 
Why don't I just try and yeah 

869
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:08,300
actually it happened the same 
way. 

870
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:11,900
I like a lot to watch you sad 
because it's very important that

871
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:15,000
you kept thinking about it. 
This is a sign that's a 

872
00:46:15,008 --> 00:46:17,000
sensitivity that we need to 
follow. 

873
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,300
That's a tiny idea that we need 
to develop the fact that you 

874
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:23,100
keep on thinking about it. 
Thanks for that. 

875
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:25,800
So the key thing for me that I 
took out just now is that always

876
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,100
have a habit of stepping out. 
It could be taking a Walk, maybe

877
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:31,900
a shower as well as some people 
say you can't get a new ideas 

878
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:35,000
when you shower or just random, 
you know, me in the cafe. 

879
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,100
When you look at posts or maybe 
signs that inspires you. 

880
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,100
The next thing that is very 
important is when it inspires 

881
00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:44,400
you stop and take, notice pay 
attention. 

882
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:46,500
Maybe there's an idea. 
Keep it in the notes. 

883
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,700
I guess some people mention 
about keeping all these notes 

884
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:52,500
ready so that you can just keep 
it down and maybe you don't 

885
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:54,600
forget. 
And one day if you keep thinking

886
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,500
of it, you can go back and 
explore. 

887
00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:58,300
I think that's a really 
beautiful message. 

888
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,200
Zh yes and try to do something 
about it. 

889
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,100
Also take it like a project that
you want to develop a prototype 

890
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,600
for and try to do not like you 
said, you did research about the

891
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,700
tech podcast in the area and 
then think about how would you 

892
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:13,900
do it? 
If there is none, how'd I do it?

893
00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:17,900
Who I would invite, take small 
steps to actually make it a real

894
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:21,000
project. 
I'm at, once a person who was 

895
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,100
such an imaginative person, she 
was telling that she spends lots

896
00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:28,100
of time during her day 
daydreaming, but she never did 

897
00:47:28,100 --> 00:47:30,300
anything. 
Think about those Daydreams. 

898
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,600
That's why I would urge action. 
You feel something, you notice, 

899
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,100
something you get an idea that 
triggers your sensitivity. 

900
00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:41,300
Just try to develop it a bit. 
Wow. 

901
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:44,300
I think another beautiful 
message because some people say 

902
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,400
I mean parents sometimes don't 
Daydream right because it's 

903
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,100
wasted of time but to me, they 
dream is important. 

904
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:52,300
Sometimes could spot maybe while
ideas. 

905
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:53,600
Yes. 
But sometimes he could turn it 

906
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,400
into something concrete. 
So I think don't judge yourself 

907
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,300
and you Daydream, I think it's 
also a chance. 

908
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,500
All for you to be creative. 
Certainly certainly, I mean as I

909
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:05,500
said in the beginning some of us
are natural at imaginative 

910
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:10,000
thinking at daydreaming and if 
your mind is wired that way, go 

911
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,400
for it. 
I think for some people I myself

912
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,900
get inspired by for some people 
who listen to this day may also 

913
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:18,100
get inspired. 
But unfortunately doctor 10, we 

914
00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:21,500
have to end our conversation due
to time, but I have one last 

915
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:23,800
question. 
This is what I call tree, Tech 

916
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,000
leadership wisdom, it doesn't 
have to be a tech related so you

917
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,800
can think of it like Leadership 
is them, I guess. 

918
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,000
So if you can, maybe share with 
us. 

919
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,700
What will be your tree wisdom to
share with the audience here? 

920
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:39,000
Wow, that's great. 
I would just say like leadership

921
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,300
wisdom from scientific world, 
that's where I have been 

922
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:45,900
experience more with. 
So the first one is like, walk 

923
00:48:45,900 --> 00:48:48,500
the talk. 
If you are a leader with some 

924
00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:52,100
values, can you have that 
expectations from your people? 

925
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:54,200
Then just be the one who walks 
the talk. 

926
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,600
Like for instance, if you are 
the leader who says that, we 

927
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,600
have a flat At culture here in 
the team just show yourself. 

928
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,600
Go to the cafeteria, talk with 
your team members make yourself,

929
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,000
approachable, make yourself 
relatable. 

930
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:13,000
So that's the first thing, walk 
the talk and then I would say 

931
00:49:13,100 --> 00:49:17,600
talking about values, one thing 
would be to think about what 

932
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,200
kind of lie there you are. 
And what are your goals with 

933
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:25,100
your team? 
If we talk about creativity and 

934
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:29,600
helping people feel good at what
they do, I would say to be more 

935
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,800
this kind of selfless leader, 
the kind of leader who wakes up 

936
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,800
in the morning and says, how can
I make the life of my people 

937
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,900
easier? 
The third leadership wisdom is 

938
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:46,200
to keep up the ability to ask 
questions. 

939
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:51,000
Try to eat the one, who shows 
how it is to be curious. 

940
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,100
Like, how can we do this? 
What is it that we are not 

941
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:59,000
seeing what new information do 
we need and not to be be afraid 

942
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,200
to show to the team members that
you are not a know-it-all, but 

943
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,200
you are a curious person. 
I really love the second one 

944
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,300
actually. 
So as a leader, sometimes we 

945
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,700
wake up on the bed in the 
morning, we always think about 

946
00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:13,700
okay. 
What goes that we can move the 

947
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:16,100
post this time. 
What kind of results can be 

948
00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:18,500
achieve? 
But you actually remind a very 

949
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:20,300
good message. 
What kind of things that we can 

950
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:23,500
do to help others lives better 
or easier so to speak. 

951
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:26,400
I think I get at the end of the 
day leadership is about people, 

952
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,100
right? 
It's not about just achieving 

953
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:30,600
results. 
So thanks dr. 10 for this 

954
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:33,300
wonderful conversation. 
So if people love this 

955
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:37,000
conversation, they want to find 
more about you or just top is 

956
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,700
their place, they can reach out 
online. 

957
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,400
This place is my LinkedIn 
profile. 

958
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:47,400
If you look for me on LinkedIn, 
one novel, cool, Lighting on, or

959
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:52,900
just drop me an email, wanna at 
well, kudos fi this to LinkedIn 

960
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:56,500
or email Art easiest way. 
And if you want to know more 

961
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:58,600
about what I do professionally, 
Ali. 

962
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,700
You can go to my website. 
Well, kudos fi. 

963
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:04,300
And there. 
You can see some of the 

964
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:07,800
trainings that I have designed 
during all these years. 

965
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,000
I'm very open talking about, 
stepping outside the comfort 

966
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:15,000
zone, I'm very open to talk with
people and I'm curious to hear 

967
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,500
about people's stories and 
experiences. 

968
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,400
I'll make sure to put all those 
in the show notes. 

969
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,800
So thank you again for this 
wonderful, creativity related 

970
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,200
conversation. 
I hope it inspires some of you 

971
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,100
business who wants to also 
explore About your creative 

972
00:51:29,100 --> 00:51:31,400
Journey. 
So I hope something Sparks you 

973
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,900
today and you can take action 
and do something out of your 

974
00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:37,400
curiosity. 
Thank you so very much. 

975
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,200
Henry does very interesting if I
would make a summer, it would be

976
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:46,000
like, don't give up on your 
inner motivation and be ready to

977
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:53,200
have new habits to take action. 
Thank you for listening to this 

978
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,600
episode and for staying, right 
until the end if you highly 

979
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,000
enjoyed it. 
I would appreciate if you share 

980
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,400
it with your friends and 
colleagues who you think would 

981
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,800
also benefit from listening to 
this episode. 

982
00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:06,800
And if you're new to the 
podcast, make sure to subscribe 

983
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,300
and leave me your valuable 
review and feedback. 

984
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,000
It helps me a lot. 
In order to grow this podcast 

985
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,200
better. 
You can also find the full show 

986
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,600
notes of this conversation on 
the episode page at technology 

987
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,100
node, death website, including 
the full transcript enter. 

988
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,400
Resting quotes and links to the 
resources mentioned, from the 

989
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,300
conversation. 
And lastly, make sure to 

990
00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:29,600
subscribe to the show's mailing 
list on package. 

991
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,100
You know, dot f to get notified 
for any future episodes. 

992
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,100
Stay tuned for the next 
technology. 

993
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:38,000
No episode. 
And until then goodbye.