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The CIO is a person who uses it 
to facilitate and enable company

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so that it becomes more 
competitive and it becomes more 

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profitable. 
If you only just do the jump or 

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supporting the business, then 
strictly speaking you maybe call

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CIO, but you're not serious. 
Hey everyone. 

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My name is Henry Surya Barragan.
And you're listening to the 

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00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,600
tekhelet Juno, the show will be 
bringing you the greatest 

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technical leaders practitioners 
and thought leaders in the 

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industry to discuss about their 
Journey ideas and practices that

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we all can learn and apply to 
build a highly performing 

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technical team and to make an 
impact in your personal work. 

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So let's dive into our Journal. 
Hello, everyone. 

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Welcome to a new episode of the 
tekhelet journal podcast, 

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excited to be back here again to
share. 

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00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:05,600
With all of you, my conversation
with another great technical 

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leader in the industry. 
Thanks for tuning in, and 

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00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:11,000
spending your time with me 
today, listening to this 

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00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,400
episode. 
If you're new to the podcast, 

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know that package, you know, is 
available for you to subscribe 

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00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:20,300
or major podcast apps, such as 
Spotify, Apple podcast, Google 

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podcasts, YouTube, and many 
others also do check out and 

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follow technology on our social 
media channels on LinkedIn. 

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Twitter and Instagram everyday, 
I post nuggets of wisdom from 

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the latest podcast episode and I
share them on those channels to 

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give us some inspiration and 
motivation for us to get better 

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each day. 
And if you'd like to make some 

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contribution to the show and 
support the creation of this 

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podcast, please consider joining
as a patron by visiting 

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00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,800
technology node. 
F / Patron, I highly appreciate 

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any kind of support and your 
contribution would help me to 

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add sustainably producing this 
show ever. 

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Week, for today's episode. 
I'm very happy to share my 

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conversation with Professor. 
Alex show. 

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Alex is currently a professor in
the school of computing at the 

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National University of 
Singapore, nus and also the 

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director of any us has advanced 
Computing for executives with a 

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career that spans over four 
decades. 

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Alex, Theo is well known as 
Singapore's first CIO in the 

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1990s. 
He recently published a book 

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titled leading with It lessons 
from Singapore's, first CIO, 

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which is written for the next 
generation of cios, ctOS and 

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other Executives who were 
closely with technology and the 

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book offers practical tips, 
case, studies and his personal 

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insights that shed light on the 
central. 

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Competencies required for cios 
in this episode. 

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Professor. 
Alex shared with me, his 

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insights on the important role 
of a CIO what he thinks the 

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traits of a good CI, o-- r-- How
is the I/O manages his time 

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priority risk and governance? 
Professor Alex, also shared with

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me his inspiring leadership 
philosophy that are highly 

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appreciated. 
By many people who work under 

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him in his career. 
He also explain to me the 

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concept of servant leadership 
the true essence of it and what 

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it means to become a servant, 
leader towards the end, 

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Professor Alex shared his views 
on the future of technology and 

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also remote working. 
Professor Alex is a very fun 

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character and I really enjoyed 
this conversation with him and I

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hope you will enjoy this episode
as well. 

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00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,100
And if you like it, consider 
helping the show by leaving a 

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00:03:36,108 --> 00:03:40,300
rating review or comment on your
podcast app or social media 

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00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:43,200
channel, those reviews and 
comments are one of the best 

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00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,600
ways to get these podcasts to 
reach more listeners and 

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hopefully they can also benefit 
from the contents in this 

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podcast. 
So let's get this episode 

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started right after a sponsor 
message. 

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Cool swag. 

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shop, and don't forget to break 

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Once you receive any of those 

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tracks. 
Hey everyone, welcome back to 

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another episode of the tech 
lead, you know. 

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No. 
Today, I'm very very excited to 

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have someone from Singapore. 
A professor. 

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His name is called Professor 
Alex show. 

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He's well-known in the industry 
here in Singapore, freshly. 

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Well, known as the first 
Singapore CIO. 

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I saw his book in a bookstore 
lately and invited him to have a

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jet in this podcast. 
He willingly agree. 

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So hopefully, Professor X will 
be able to share a lot of 

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business. 
So welcome to the show problem. 

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Hello. 
I'm glad to be here. 

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So Professor, for those people 
who don't know you, maybe, Would

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you like to introduce yourself 
and be telling about your career

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Journey, your highlights and 
turning points Henry. 

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I started as a civil engineer 
because I went for studies in 

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Germany, on the Singapore, 
government scholarship. 

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So, I pursued civil engineering,
upon return, and finishing. 

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All my national service 
obligation. 

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I started work as a structural 
engineer in the Housing and 

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Development board. 
So, I was actually a structural 

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engineer for about 10 years 
design. 

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Being supervising construction 
and also involved in 

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construction technology projects
during the ten years. 

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I also involve in some 
computerization projects, after 

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10 years. 
That's a structural engineer. 

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The management of hdb was 
looking for somebody to run the 

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IT department because the 
position was vacant and there 

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was a search or suitable person 
sort of the global search, but 

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finally, they narrow down to me,
which is very strange because I 

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was also not It person I was and
user i t. 

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So the CEO offer me the job to 
be the head of it for in 1989. 

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I went over to the IT department
and did some understudy. 

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Before I assume the hate a few 
months later. 

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One year later. 
I think there was a renaming of 

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all the various management 
Personnel in hdb, and my boss 

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asked me what you want to call 
yourself. 

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So I said, I want to be the 
Chief Information officer. 

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My boss was very good. 
Good said, okay. 

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If you think you like the title,
you just call your Chief 

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Information officer at a time. 
Of course, see, I will type bill

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was not known in Singapore. 
So this is why I became the 

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first Singapore CI who the first
person to carry the title that 

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maybe people who is doing a CIO 
job, but they didn't carry the 

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title. 
And so that's the beginning of 

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my It Journey, and they lasted 
all the way until now. 

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So, ten years as a software 
engineer 13 years as a CIO of 

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hdb, after which, I actually, 
Sighing from the Civil Service 

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and join stop. 
So when a way to start up I told

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the see you then that I've been 
13 years as CIO. 

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So don't let me be the CIO here.
Yeah, and you say okay 

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everything but the CIO so I 
started off working as strategic

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relations and my liaison with 
the government in the CEOs 

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office after two years of that. 
I was told to go and become the 

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head of empty. 
Price sales to take over the 

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sales to corporate customer. 
Of course. 

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Just like it's a story repeated 
itself. 

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It was not Our, IT person became
CIO and now I have no idea. 

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Why sales and I became head of 
sales, the corporate sales. 

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And I did that for three years. 
And then the CEO say, yeah, I 

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promise you, you won't be CI ho,
but I have to break my promise 

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because there is a big project 
which was undertaking there is 

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the revamping of the business. 
Just the composer's big CRM 

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system, the city couldn't find 
anybody suitable to be the CIO. 

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And we have one here in the back
yard. 

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So he said, okay, you go in take
over as a CIO, which I 

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00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,400
reluctantly did. 
So am I then became CIO for 

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00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,300
three years insta? 
Have to implement the business 

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support system there after I 
change a portfolio to be 

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introducing Enterprise risk 
management to stop. 

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So I was hit Enterprise risk 
management. 

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I sort of retired from starhub 
after two years. 

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00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:30,800
And are you going to join 
Accenture as a Management 

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00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,900
Consultant serving the health 
and public sector? 

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00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,200
So it was a managing director of
health and public sector in 

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00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,799
Accenture for two years. 
I didn't really quite like the 

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00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,799
job because you know has always 
been on the buyer side. 

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And now I'm sellers like 
although yes, it's not how I was

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doing the selling but that was 
with a big team of people here. 

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I have to do personal sales. 
So I said no not my cup of tea 

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and decided to join the Steve. 
So professor and I've been there

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for the last six years in any. 
Where's the National University 

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00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,800
of Singapore? 
I joined the school of computing

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00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:07,500
in a department information 
system, which incidentally, the 

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00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:10,600
school Computing is ranked 
number four in the world. 

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00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:12,300
Yesterday. 
I received the ranking. 

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00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:18,600
So prestigious. 
Do you know when I joined them? 

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So then I also been asked to 
take care of the Executive 

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Education Center for the school 
of computing. 

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So I teach and then I run the 
Executive Education Center. 

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So thanks for sharing your story
problem. 

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I think it's really, really 
interesting. 

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Like the situation where you are
being asked to do a role, which 

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you not so-called expert in and 
you're willing to take the 

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challenge and succeed after 
that. 

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That's really amazing. 
So I saw your book in the 

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00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,000
bookstore lately. 
So what made you write a book in

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00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:52,300
the early days? 
When I first became the CIO, 

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there were lots of people who 
don't know. 

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What is a serial in fact, Half 
or three-quarters Singapore have

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no idea what the CIO so they 
thought I'm in charge of 

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00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,000
customer service. 
I'm the information officer. 

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00:10:04,900 --> 00:10:08,800
So reporter from Straits, times 
approach, me and say, since 

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you're the CIO of Singapore, 
first one, why don't you write a

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00:10:12,908 --> 00:10:15,400
column in the streets times to 
explain? 

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00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,100
What is the job of a serial? 
So we started to call them in 

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00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:22,000
the supplement of The Straits 
times called the computer times,

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00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:24,700
which of course, now is no more 
available at that time. 

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00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:28,000
It was quite Popular, is the 
supplement that comes up weekly 

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00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,100
on Wednesday. 
So I was asked to do this column

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00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,700
called the cio's desktop. 
I didn't know what I was in for 

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00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:38,100
because I agreed to write, I 
wrote the first article and was 

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00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,900
published and was very popular. 
That's according to the report 

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00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:44,800
and she told me we were doing 
the fortnightly. 

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00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:49,000
So there is something which I 
expect to have to write every 

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00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000
Fortnight I did. 
So and I wrote almost 40 

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00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,500
articles over a period of two 
years. 

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00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,200
Fortnightly. 
I'll be seeing lots of articles 

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00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,400
about the top of this yo-yo. 
The challenges are met and 

193
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,200
things I have to deal with. 
So all those articles were 

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00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,100
published and I did nothing 
about the hole somewhere in 

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00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:08,700
archive. 
If you go in the National 

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00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:13,300
Library of type, or down there, 
when covid-19 hit us, one of my 

197
00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,000
associate in the u.s. 
Executive Education. 

198
00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:20,100
She asked me since you wrote so 
many of those articles. 

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00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,200
Why don't we just consolidate 
into a book? 

200
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:25,900
So that was the start of the The
idea. 

201
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,700
So we went to the National 
Archives, you know, I have to go

202
00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:32,200
to the library of type 2 going 
just for the Articles. 

203
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,900
Then we realize that you put 
them all together. 

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00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,200
You will not form a book because
newspaper articles are short and

205
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,800
sharp. 
Even if it's a one full-page 

206
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,200
newspaper. 
The supplement is half the size 

207
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,600
of the normal paper, so it is 
not a lot. 

208
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,500
So we try to put them all 
together and say no you cannot 

209
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,800
form a book. 
We have to write more. 

210
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,000
We have to put in one meets and 
we have to put in more case 

211
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000
studies. 
Actions. 

212
00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,100
The aim was actually the used it
to educate future cios and also 

213
00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:05,100
budding cios in the region. 
Not only in Singapore to have a 

214
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:09,000
textbook that can be also used 
because the whole region is now 

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00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,600
developing and everybody seen 
the power of Information 

216
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,900
Technology, especially during 
the covid-19 crisis people 

217
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,500
realized without it a lot of 
company. 

218
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,200
Ready cannot survive and so the 
whole region suddenly woke up, 

219
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,900
so it's A matter of timing. 
If I have published my book much

220
00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:30,400
earlier two years earlier or 
three years earlier. 

221
00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:34,600
It will not be so popular as now
because suddenly a lot of SME. 

222
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:40,000
A lot of people realize I T so 
important and so timing, when we

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00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,700
publish this book, The Publisher
was very excited. 

224
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:45,100
Actually. 
We wanted it to be a single pole

225
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:47,600
publication and available to the
region. 

226
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,600
They say, no, no. 
No, I think the whole world 

227
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:55,200
needs to read this book. 
So he was actually now open. 

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00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,100
Available in the whole world. 
So yeah, thanks for sharing your

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00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,300
experience and expertise for me 
in the book. 

230
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,500
A. 
I rarely find a book about CIO 

231
00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:05,600
definitely. 
So my first question then 

232
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,200
because you have assumed this 
role for quite a number of 

233
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,600
years. 
So what exactly the role of the 

234
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,600
CIO actually? 
Okay, let me explain before I 

235
00:13:14,608 --> 00:13:18,300
assume the title CIO not just 
because I wanted the title 

236
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:20,500
cereal. 
When I took on the, IT job, as 

237
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:24,300
head of IT told to see you all 
who actually took a gamble on 

238
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:25,200
me. 
Yeah, actually. 

239
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,200
He selected me. 
So I said, okay. 

240
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:30,400
I have your back team. 
I want to change things. 

241
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:32,900
Firstly. 
I'm not a dirty person. 

242
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,100
I come from the user side. 
So I understand hdb business. 

243
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,500
So I want to be involved in the 
business and I would like to 

244
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:44,500
thank apply it to the business 
in a way. 

245
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:46,600
Without knowing that, it's a CIO
was job. 

246
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,500
I did the CIA job. 
So without knowing, what is 

247
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:52,500
actually the CIO job. 
I took on the title or the CIO. 

248
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,200
And then I started the 
difference is, of course. 

249
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:59,400
Is not pretty, perhaps a tacky, 
can also hold us here or job, 

250
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,300
but his main job is not 
technical. 

251
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,800
His main job is to support the 
business. 

252
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,100
Exactly. 
At a time in 1990, is the time 

253
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:10,400
when the it moved from the back 
office to the front of the 

254
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,500
business around the world. 
Actually, not only in Singapore.

255
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,300
So, that's where the IT person. 
Now come up and say, we're no 

256
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,200
longer just doing the number 
crunching or the systems 

257
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,200
development at the background. 
We are coming here to support 

258
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,500
and enable the business. 
So, So to answer your question, 

259
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:34,200
the CIO is a person who uses it 
to facilitate and enable company

260
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,600
so that it becomes more 
competitive and it becomes more 

261
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,300
profitable. 
If you only just do the job of 

262
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,900
supporting the business, then 
strictly speaking, you, maybe 

263
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:48,200
call CIO, but you're not cereal.
So these days the title CIO 

264
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,500
itself. 
I think it's a little bit 

265
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,200
convoluted. 
You can see so many other 

266
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,200
variants of the title like CTO 
Chief technology officer. 

267
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:59,100
I'll maybe Chief digital officer
and maybe so many others. 

268
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,400
So in your opinion are they just
different sort of names or are 

269
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,600
there clearly specific 
differences between these title?

270
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,300
Actually, each mean a different 
thing in the past. 

271
00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:12,200
There were people in charge of 
the data. 

272
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,800
Somebody is in sort of 
infrastructure and technology, 

273
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,800
and hardware, and software 
somebody who is in charge of the

274
00:15:18,808 --> 00:15:22,800
architecture, but there was the 
CIO and top and all these people

275
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,900
are the managers under him. 
So because I T has become so 

276
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,900
pervasive. 
So important to organization is 

277
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,900
no longer possible for CIO 
himself to manage each of these 

278
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:38,700
portfolio in detail, he can but 
that means you will have so much

279
00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:40,200
time to learn support of this 
thing. 

280
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,900
Therefore, the whole world now 
has the evolution of the 

281
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:47,400
portfolio of the stereo. 
Now, you have one person who is 

282
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,900
Chief security information, 
security, one person in charge 

283
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:55,200
of data Chief data officer, then
you have the chip. 

284
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,600
Keep that for each of, these 
actually falls into the 

285
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,300
portfolio, which are used to 
carry. 

286
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:03,600
So I have all this person, which
means, it's just that we give 

287
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,400
them a bigger title and make 
them do more work. 

288
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,400
Actually all for the good of the
organization. 

289
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,000
However, there is a difference. 
But see I once it you some 

290
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:18,400
organization has a CTO and the 
CIO reporter. 

291
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,000
CTU some organization. 
Have the CTO that reporters 

292
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,800
here. 
You what is the different? 

293
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,300
The CTO is charge of the 
Technology, its Chief technology

294
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,400
officer. 
So depending on that 

295
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,800
organization, which is more 
important to them the 

296
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,600
information systems or the 
technology that for you. 

297
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,000
See if the wastage is on 
technology than the CTO is the 

298
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
higher ranking on the 
information. 

299
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,700
Officer will be the one in 
charge of using it to provide 

300
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,400
information to the organization.
So you mentioned a couple of 

301
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,500
times a cios job is actually to 
support the business. 

302
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:56,200
Maybe you. 
Liber8 little bit. 

303
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,200
What do you mean by support? 
Do you like provide? 

304
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,200
For example, your case last time
is help this customer service or

305
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,800
running, just mainframes and 
servers, and things like that. 

306
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,300
So what exactly do you mean by 
supporting the business? 

307
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,700
Are you supporting the business?
Firstly, you have to understand?

308
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,599
What is the business decision? 
What is the mission, and what 

309
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,700
are the core values of the 
organization? 

310
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,400
Whether the it is organized in 
such a way to enable each of 

311
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,200
these core value to be realized.
And Each of the objective 

312
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,800
organization to be executed. 
So that's how we support the 

313
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,500
business. 
We think in terms of the 

314
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:36,300
business of the company instead 
of what the users need in, the 

315
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,300
past is always the user or 
customer. 

316
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:41,600
So we have to make a user happy 
when I became the CEO. 

317
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,300
I said, no our customer our 
hdvs. 

318
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:47,100
Customer only one customer the 
whole organization. 

319
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:50,800
Only one set of custom hood. 
So common set of customer. 

320
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,800
We work together with the end 
user as business partners. 

321
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,600
And Other, we will serve the 
customers. 

322
00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:00,600
This is a change of mindset, 
very important chairman. 

323
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,200
So, because the IT people, you 
know, technical people, they 

324
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,300
like to be the back talking to 
machine. 

325
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:06,600
They don't like to talk to 
people. 

326
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:08,900
So I have to Crystal around and 
said. 

327
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:14,000
Now if the user have no idea 
what to do to serve the customer

328
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,000
better, we come up with ideas 
and that's how we bring it to 

329
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,900
the front. 
However, of course, we always 

330
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:25,100
must recognize that the user, 
the business heads. 

331
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:27,500
You are the one responsible for 
the business. 

332
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,000
So although we can offer them 
ideas. 

333
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:33,100
Please, do not take away the 
credit from them, give them the 

334
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:36,700
Dual credit because ultimately 
the risk is run by them. 

335
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:38,700
The reason of serving the 
customer. 

336
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:41,200
We only enabled them to do it 
better. 

337
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:44,700
So I know that it is probably a 
little bit of challenging 

338
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:48,400
situation to describe the many 
few things that our CIO needs to

339
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,100
do well, but if you can look 
into maybe your experience or 

340
00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:55,200
the best cios available out 
there, what are the good? 

341
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,000
Of a good CI, maybe execution 
prioritization and things like 

342
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,300
that, but maybe if you can 
summarize and share with us, 

343
00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:02,700
what do you think are the good 
traits? 

344
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,000
The most important skills that 
CIO has to have is actually 

345
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,800
project management. 
Today. 

346
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,200
We talked about project program 
and portfolio. 

347
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,000
Right? 
Actually. 

348
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,200
The CIO is the chief portfolio 
manager of all the information 

349
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,900
systems in the organization. 
The most important trick you has

350
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:25,000
is project management because 
you have to execute everything. 

351
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,000
According to budget, according 
to share, you is one of the most

352
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,400
important thing. 
The other thing is, of course, 

353
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,800
he must be able to speak the 
business language because if you

354
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,500
want to go and talk to the 
business people, you can't show 

355
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:40,500
them all your Technical jargons 
and order. 

356
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:42,400
They don't understand what 
you're talking about. 

357
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:45,200
For example, or we want to 
introduce our PA. 

358
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:46,600
What is that? 
Now? 

359
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,900
We're into the fourth Industrial
Revolution to understand all 

360
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:51,500
these. 
So we have to cut the Techno 

361
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:55,100
speak and speak confidently to 
the end user. 

362
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,700
Another important thing is, we 
have to earn our right at the 

363
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,400
table. 
That means I told the CEO. 

364
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,500
I want to be part of the 
management team and it is the 

365
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:06,700
management meets. 
I want to be there too. 

366
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,500
So then you have to earn your 
right to be at the table. 

367
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,500
So I told my staff that first we
have to do our things right to 

368
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,200
earn our speaking, right? 
If you don't even do our own 

369
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,700
bread and butter, keep the 
lights on operation. 

370
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,600
Well, then people will not trust
what we say. 

371
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,400
We don't have the speaking right
to say That we want to implement

372
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,500
this system. 
That system you can even do 

373
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,700
anything, right? 
How can you tell us you want to 

374
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:33,700
do this system or the system and
want to spend, how much money 

375
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:36,700
and all that? 
So in the initial days when I 

376
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,000
took over, I already have to get
all my operation. 

377
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,300
Shipshape, get them all back to 
already and getting the lights 

378
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:46,300
on because the most important 
before we can now talk about 

379
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,200
enabling. 
Another thing, important is know

380
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,100
how to keep your promises is 
very important. 

381
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,800
Because there was a survey Then 
I think my one survey 

382
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,200
organization, one Management 
Consultant. 

383
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,700
They say among all the top 
management position. 

384
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,900
The CIO has the shortest life 
span. 

385
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,800
Sighs. 
So you might sometimes we call 

386
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,600
them career is over CIO is 
because a lot of us 

387
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,600
over-promised good customer 
service means you deliver more 

388
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,700
than what you promised don't 
promise so much promise the sky 

389
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:23,100
and deliver the Earth. 
So those I think are the few 

390
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:26,200
important things that 
differentiate a good stereo from

391
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,000
a not-so-good cereal, right? 
I personally think CIO 

392
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,200
definitely needs to happen 
execution, but I didn't know 

393
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,600
that exactly when you mentioned 
project. 

394
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,600
Now, it makes sense like a CIO 
needs to run multiple streams of

395
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,000
work multiple projects, like you
mentioned about data, security, 

396
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,300
infrastructure and things like 
that. 

397
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,700
So all this becomes a portfolio 
on the CIO and they need to be 

398
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:48,600
able to manage those things. 
Very, well. 

399
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,000
He also mentioned just now that 
a CIO needs to understand the 

400
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,400
business Vision, the mission and
the values. 

401
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:59,000
So what do you think a CIO needs
to do in order to cultivate this

402
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,400
mindset across the people within
the, it departments in the first

403
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,500
place when you want to run? 
Organization, you know that the 

404
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,600
CIO achieve results through his 
people, he may be the smartest 

405
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,400
guy, but without all his staff 
to execute his nothing. 

406
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,400
So for me motivating all the 
staff is very important. 

407
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,300
But how do you motivate people? 
People are motivated when they 

408
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,500
have a dream when they can 
identify with you? 

409
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:28,700
So very, very early days in 
1991. 

410
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:32,700
I started to say in order for 
our staff not to resign and 

411
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,600
every time you have a turnover, 
a big problem. 

412
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,200
Um for us because they are 
highly skilled people, you have 

413
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,500
to train them in order. 
So for them to stay on with us, 

414
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:43,200
then they must share the same 
dream as or so. 

415
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,300
We have to come up with it 
Vision. 

416
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:49,100
I think we are one of the first 
organization in Singapore to 

417
00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:53,100
come up with tenure it Planet. 
But of course that time was 

418
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:55,600
1991. 
So it was supposed to be up to 

419
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,500
the year 2000. 
The so you call it Vision 2000. 

420
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,600
We Gather people together or it 
people and then came up and 

421
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,500
plan. 
What would be like Eli? 

422
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,900
Year, 2000. 
How would HD be utilized by T to

423
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,700
serve the customers by the year 
2000? 

424
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,900
So we have things like web page 
before internet was even 

425
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:16,600
invented really talk about 
using. 

426
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,500
Electronic means to talk to 
people and communicate with 

427
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:21,500
them. 
So with the vision, the staff 

428
00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:24,000
get very excited to say, these 
are all the things that coming 

429
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,800
along. 
If they stay on with 

430
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,700
organization, they will get to 
play with all this technology. 

431
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,700
So we actually put a technology 
roadmap as well into the vision 

432
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,000
2000. 
We also can Up with it, training

433
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,800
strategy for the organization, 
because you can do all the 

434
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,100
magic, all the beautiful system.
But the people do not know how 

435
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:46,500
to use. 
So for me, I said we have to 

436
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,900
train the users, so that the 
users need all this system. 

437
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:52,900
Then we are creating demand for 
ourselves because I was trained 

438
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,000
as a sales assistant, why I was 
able to do sales, because even 

439
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,900
in HD be as simple as doing 
something. 

440
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:03,900
So, in order for people to want 
to continue to ask us to do 

441
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:08,000
system, Have to educate them. 
But that's a two-edged sword. 

442
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,000
You train harder and user very 
well, you know, the demand very 

443
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,800
high on us. 
And then if we are slow, they 

444
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,900
will start doing system 
themselves and then we create 

445
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,300
this problem or Shadow ID when 
end-user start doing system for 

446
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,400
themselves. 
You always have to weigh the 

447
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,100
pros and cons of whatever you 
do. 

448
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:28,100
There is one of the important 
trait obviously, are you, 

449
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:32,600
because everything that we do in
ite carries risk and risk, 

450
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,500
management is a very important 
trick. 

451
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,700
Because everything that we do is
risky because let's say you 

452
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:42,800
decide to invest in a system and
the system actually is going on 

453
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,000
end-of-life and we do not do the
proper due, diligence and 

454
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,000
research, and then we're going 
to do and then we can trouble. 

455
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:54,000
So, one question I have when you
explain about this, I mean these

456
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,000
days technology moves very fast 
setting like a ten years Vision,

457
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,800
probably, it's a little bit hard
especially with all the new 

458
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,700
advancement in technology. 
Sometimes within one year. 

459
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:07,000
You can see Totally different 
Technologies coming and also 

460
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,800
about the talents because there 
are so many technology-enabled 

461
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:12,600
companies. 
These days people have more 

462
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,800
options. 
They are willing to jump from 

463
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,000
one company to the others. 
I think this might be a 

464
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,300
challenge, but what's your view 
about all these? 

465
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:23,200
So how to make it relevant with 
the current pace of technology 

466
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,000
and talents that are available 
out there in the first place 

467
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,800
technology today, move very fast
in the early days. 

468
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,500
I was able to do it, then your 
vision because technology was 

469
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,400
from that fast. 
But today you've I say do it. 

470
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,000
Thank you planning. 
Probably we can take the Gartner

471
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,000
hype cycle. 
We know all the Technologies 

472
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,500
coming up but you actually 
compare all the technology hype 

473
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,800
cycle of a gardener. 
You see that a lot of 

474
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,200
Technologies added every year, 
as you said, very correctly. 

475
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,200
So many things are coming along 
so fast, how can our plan be 

476
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,700
anything meaningful? 
However, not so meaningful plan 

477
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:02,700
is better than no plan. 
We can put in all these things 

478
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,600
and say what we want to do and 
then some All the technology for

479
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,200
true, and then disappear. 
Then we have to adjust the plan.

480
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,500
So a technology plan that's 
relevant to the organization. 

481
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:16,000
Must be updated and review 
annually and always look at the 

482
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,100
technology and how it can 
enhance customer service how it 

483
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:24,000
can enhance business. 
When I teach my class to my 

484
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,700
student, I said, we are the 
information systems people. 

485
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,300
Why do we do information system?
Only for one reason to support 

486
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:34,400
the company and why does the 
company going? 

487
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,600
The business because he wants to
make money. 

488
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,000
So, I asked the student name me,
one organization that does not 

489
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,300
need money. 
I mean, it's no brainer. 

490
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,900
Everybody is into a business is 
to make money whether it's 

491
00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:49,400
charitable organization or 
whatever. 

492
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,800
It is, still need money in order
to pay the stakeholders and pay 

493
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,900
their people. 
The beneficiaries that for 

494
00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:58,600
always, think of all the 
technology that is going to be 

495
00:26:58,608 --> 00:27:02,700
beneficial for our customers and
that you will receive out quite 

496
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,500
a lot of them. 
So some are nice. 

497
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,600
Someone with nice to play with. 
But I didn't very useful for us 

498
00:27:08,608 --> 00:27:11,600
to serve the customer. 
So, how about the talent 

499
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,700
management part the retaining of
them? 

500
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:17,100
Because technology moves so fast
options available a lot these 

501
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,400
days. 
So how can you support nurture 

502
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,200
and make people stay within the 
it organization in the early 

503
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,700
days? 
I could because I give vision 

504
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,900
and told them, we are the best. 
We make the organization, the 

505
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:32,100
best one time we were really one
of the best. 

506
00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,500
It organization in Singapore, 
people want? 

507
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,100
To identify with winners, you 
want to manage a talent? 

508
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:43,100
The talent is also looking for 
talent talent difficult to keep 

509
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:46,400
if you cannot keep them 
motivated, super excited, but 

510
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,900
one of the things that's very 
important is to continuously 

511
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:52,700
train and send your people for 
training, educate them. 

512
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:54,500
Keep them updated with 
technology. 

513
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:57,500
A lot of employers have this 
selfish notion. 

514
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,000
Why do I spend money to train 
all these guys? 

515
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:02,400
After that? 
They will quick and then we'll 

516
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,000
loosen all them. 
However, I said, You don't 

517
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,100
change them. 
You'll lose them. 

518
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:11,200
Give a faster. 
So either way, that's I 

519
00:28:11,208 --> 00:28:13,200
mentioned. 
Just now, everything comes to 

520
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,100
Greece. 
So it's a matter of balancing of

521
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:18,900
this. 
I think it is better to be 

522
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:22,400
generous and train your people. 
So that when they are equipped 

523
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,300
with the latest skill, they can 
actually, do not always think 

524
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:27,900
that they will leave you. 
They may even surprise you with 

525
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:31,300
new ideas because they are 
equipped with the latest skills.

526
00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:34,400
And competency, they can 
contribute to new ideas. 

527
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,800
The organization that the CIO 
run is not only the CIO, but 

528
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,700
everybody else is a talent in 
the whole organization. 

529
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,400
Every last member is a talent 
and everybody can come up with 

530
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,700
surprising ideas. 
So, as you mentioned, all these 

531
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:52,300
trades challenges the race that 
CIO needs to Bear. 

532
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,300
Personally, I wonder a lot. 
How does a CIO organized his 

533
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:58,500
time? 
Organize his day-to-day 

534
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:02,100
activities because that seems to
be like, so many things on his 

535
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:04,400
plate from the race from 
security from running. 

536
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,700
Things well, from managing new 
technologies that are up and 

537
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:11,300
coming talent management Vision.
So yeah, what do you think, 

538
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,800
like, how the CIO should best 
organize their day or their 

539
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:18,100
activities? 
Actually, I don't think the CIO 

540
00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:20,400
has a tougher job than any other
person. 

541
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,900
I think even a person, and a 
lower level. 

542
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:24,800
This, they have to manage many, 
many things. 

543
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,200
So, it's a matter of learning to
prioritize, prioritize your 

544
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,800
time, prioritize your focus, 
while the things that are 

545
00:29:32,808 --> 00:29:36,200
important to you. 
So, Always be mindful of 

546
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,000
critical things that have to be 
done in the day, in the week, in

547
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,300
a month or in a year for me. 
That's always a whiteboard. 

548
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:46,900
Well, put down all the button 
projects that I have to focus 

549
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:48,500
on. 
So you don't lose focus. 

550
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,300
Now, the trouble is in this 
world those who are capable will

551
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,500
get more and more jobs. 
Unfortunately. 

552
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:57,300
That's the way it goes. 
Because the boss will say, hey, 

553
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:59,800
this guy is capable. 
How many jobs are you doing 

554
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,600
already? 
Can I give you one more? 

555
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:05,000
Unfortunately, my life since the
days when I was Changing the 

556
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,400
order. 
We do know nobody ever asked me 

557
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,000
you have time to do one more 
job. 

558
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,900
They will just say I have this 
job. 

559
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Can you do it? 
So that is up to you to then 

560
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,600
juggle see which is top 
priority, even as a structural 

561
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,800
engineer. 
I handle many many things at one

562
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,000
time just because I am able to 
complete a lot of tasks at the 

563
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
same time. 
That's a people who give me 

564
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,100
more. 
That's why. 

565
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,100
I mean one of the article in a 
book I will say the answer is 

566
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,400
yes. 
What's your question? 

567
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,500
When people ask me just are you 
Henry, I mean, you asked me. 

568
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,400
Can I do a podcast? 
Yes. 

569
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,700
A, no, I'm never right. 
So that is, my character has 

570
00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:48,700
always been that way. 
If the reason why you call me is

571
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:50,800
because you have reconsidered 
very carefully. 

572
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:53,300
I want to talk to you. 
I want to interview you. 

573
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:55,900
So when your boss asks you for a
job. 

574
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:59,200
He already decided you are the 
best person so don't be so 

575
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,200
modest. 
I think maybe the other guy is 

576
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,400
better and all that don't 
actually you are actually making

577
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,800
your boss angry. 
Well, you're trying to tell him 

578
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,300
that he's stupid to pick you. 
So for me, it's a pleasure to be

579
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:16,300
trusted with so many tasks. 
However, the moment you fail in 

580
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:19,800
one pass, maybe jeopardize older
people have entrusted you. 

581
00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,000
So for me, one, very important 
principle. 

582
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,700
Is you must finish. 
Whatever you started. 

583
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,600
You must not under deliver. 
Whatever you promise. 

584
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:34,500
There are some times when you 
can feel but never tell anyone. 

585
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:37,600
I have not tried when I was a 
Youngster changing. 

586
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,200
You. 
There was a CEO that time his 

587
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,000
philosophy is if he give you a 
task and you don't even bother 

588
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,300
to try then you are really worth
nothing. 

589
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,500
If you try and you try and the 
time you still try and you tell 

590
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,200
him so I tried three times it 
cannot be done. 

591
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,100
Then you say yes, I believe. 
So. 

592
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,700
If you have not even tried then 
you already gave up. 

593
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,500
I think then people would not 
entrust you with anything. 

594
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,300
So for me, my motto has always 
been you give me a job I would 

595
00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:06,500
do. 
Do, but I would do to the best 

596
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:09,900
of my ability. 
And sometimes I do feel, but 

597
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,400
not, for lack of trying. 
You just shows that this thing 

598
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,400
cannot be done. 
That's all. 

599
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,000
So, as you mentioned out these, 
of course, these days, I mean, 

600
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,400
especially if you are worried 
about all these four, quadrants 

601
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,200
about importance and urgency. 
So, I feel also these days, 

602
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,600
there are so many things take an
example of Cyber attack. 

603
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,700
Sometimes, it could just happen 
that it becomes an urgency 

604
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:31,400
certainly. 
So as you try to prioritize all 

605
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,400
this party, actually keep the 
balance between solving the 

606
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,600
Maybe you know like 
modernization of Technology 

607
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,800
cyber security and things like 
that. 

608
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,700
First is the important things, 
the things that you plan to do 

609
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:46,900
in the future, the priority of 
things changes every day, if we 

610
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,500
think for a moment that Lester 
this property today, we just go 

611
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,600
a business as usual. 
You'll be the same. 

612
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:57,000
No, always be prepared with this
emergency myself in hdb. 

613
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,500
I started this thing called the 
business continuity management 

614
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,400
at a time. 
I don't think there were any 

615
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,400
organization taking of touch 
this turkey. 

616
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:08,100
Continuity thought of concept. 
If we have a business continuity

617
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:09,700
mindset, the business must go 
on. 

618
00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:13,100
So how do we make business go 
on, if that's something that's 

619
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,300
going to cause a disruption to 
business that thing must be 

620
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:19,600
tackle first. 
So the priority of doing things 

621
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,700
is, how important is this thing 
to the business? 

622
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:26,200
A Cyber attack that will disrupt
the normal operation of 

623
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,100
business. 
You have to be tackle first. 

624
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:31,300
It's not called firefighting. 
It's just that you have this 

625
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:35,200
preparedness, emergency 
preparedness, and we What to do.

626
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,500
So actually, we work out before 
you even and disaster. 

627
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,500
Happened hook up the procedures.
So, that, when something 

628
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:44,800
happened, which is executed, 
there are other things that were

629
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,500
in the priority, then we have to
adjust. 

630
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,800
That's why I said, the project 
management is very important. 

631
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:53,000
All right. 
So one of the so-called 

632
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,700
challenges, well, you mentioned 
it, briefly just now is about 

633
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,200
managing governance, right? 
Things like Shadow. 

634
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,700
It suddenly coming up from 
different, departments within 

635
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,800
organization. 
So, how does the CIO manage 

636
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,600
this? 
Audience compliance within the 

637
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,300
whole company in the first 
place. 

638
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:11,800
There's a misconception that the
CIO is in charge of it 

639
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,400
governance. 
Well, he is not, you'll be 

640
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,199
surprised to hear that. 
So the person who is in charge 

641
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,500
hikes, you got - mr. 
CEO. 

642
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:23,600
Okay, let's it is his 
organization. 

643
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,000
And if you ask the CIO to be the
head of IT governance, then he 

644
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,300
will prioritize according to his
agenda. 

645
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,699
So everything as I said, must be
according to the Yours agenda. 

646
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,699
So what we did in IIT, 
government's is the governors of

647
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:42,500
ite. 
Mr. CEO plus all the business 

648
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:47,900
head and facilitated by the CO2 
Co Secretary of this committee 

649
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,199
because everybody is part of 
this governance team. 

650
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:56,000
They all know they are part of 
it, you come up with a high tea 

651
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,000
prioritization and the plan and 
all that. 

652
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,900
They all have agreed to it. 
So when they want to do 

653
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:04,300
something on their own, and they
see that all righty. 

654
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:07,400
He's not responding the sorry, 
we have to do our own it, called

655
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,100
Shadow ID, then they will know, 
because they end up our 

656
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,200
governance. 
Why we cannot do the system for 

657
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,000
them. 
It is because other things are 

658
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,600
more urgent, according to the 
CEOs are gender. 

659
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:20,800
But however, some of these 
blisters department, they do 

660
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,900
really need the system and some 
of these are Standalone system, 

661
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:26,400
which they can easily do by 
themselves. 

662
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,700
And so I said that tremendous 
organization become advanced in 

663
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:33,200
the it knowledge. 
You cannot stop people from 

664
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,800
wanting to do their So what we 
do is we do a federation 

665
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,400
approach. 
So we get every user Department 

666
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,700
to have an IT organization. 
A small one. 

667
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,300
It is not a full-time job, but 
it's a group of people who is 

668
00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:51,500
actually it support officer in 
each of the user department and 

669
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:54,900
we control them, we have a 
monthly meeting with all these 

670
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:58,300
photos and then we will ask them
what all the needs for things 

671
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,000
you want to do. 
So we know what they are all 

672
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,100
doing. 
We also tell them that you want 

673
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:04,100
to do something. 
We won't stop you, but please 

674
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,600
tell us. 
And then we will help you to 

675
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,900
Outsource some of these jobs. 
If you have the budget for it, 

676
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:13,600
we will help you also, but it 
department will always have a 

677
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,900
liaison officer looking after. 
Because ultimately, if anything 

678
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,000
goes wrong, the CIO is 
responsible. 

679
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400
Whether it is user-led or 
whatever. 

680
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,800
So I always tell my people, it 
does not matter whether the user

681
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,900
developing or is outsourced or 
whatever. 

682
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:31,000
Finally, it has a problem. 
They will look for the CIO. 

683
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:35,200
So since we are going to be 
responsible, my solving What's 

684
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800
happening as you mention about 
Outsourcing? 

685
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,400
So one question that pop up in 
my mind because these days, 

686
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,700
people say every company now is 
a technology company and that's 

687
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:45,900
why they need to be enabled 
about technology. 

688
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,100
They probably need to master 
technology. 

689
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:51,200
What is the balance here? 
Because traditionally many many 

690
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,400
companies before Outsource a lot
of it capabilities to that party

691
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,400
and thus the Consulting 
companies, but now because of 

692
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,400
the disruption from the 
startups, the fintech and things

693
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,200
like that, people start to 
realize that actually it 

694
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,200
support. 
Don't. 

695
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,400
So they need to build capability
within the company itself. 

696
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,700
So, what's your view on this? 
So I have always been mindful 

697
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:16,300
that the law of companies will 
come to my CEO and say, why 

698
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:18,500
don't y'all saw these? 
And actually, we can see below 

699
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:20,700
caused by me, taking over some 
of this. 

700
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,700
So, Outsourcing is not a bad 
thing. 

701
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:27,600
If you read properly, that means
you must know what you can also 

702
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,200
see. 
And what you can also see, 

703
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,400
Outsourcing to a third party 
partner. 

704
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,700
You are not transferring your 
responsibility. 

705
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,600
You only transferring the look 
to them, the responsibilities to

706
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,800
rice with it department. 
So things like help desk, you 

707
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,300
can Outsource it support, you 
can actually our source, you can

708
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:47,800
even Outsource the 
infrastructure person. 

709
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,500
However, you have to retain the 
architect. 

710
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:52,400
You cannot say. 
I also have to take control 

711
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,600
because then the vendor knows 
more about your architecture. 

712
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,200
Then you yourself security. 
I don't know Source because it's

713
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,200
to dedicate to important, 
strategic planning. 

714
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,400
I don't know Source. 
Most of the vendor will come and

715
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,200
ask me. 
Me, can you share with us your 

716
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,200
strategic plan? 
That will ask them? 

717
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,100
Why should I share with you? 
My strategic plan is your job to

718
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:15,300
find out what is my strategy. 
Strategic plan is a core 

719
00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:18,100
competence that the IT 
department should not Outsource 

720
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:22,100
that means before we consider 
whether we need external help to

721
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:24,900
the body. 
We should have inventory of all 

722
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:28,400
the things that in call to us. 
And what are the things, which 

723
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,900
are non core and can be 
outsourced. 

724
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,200
You're right about a lot of 
company realized we offer so 

725
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,800
many of these. 
In the now, we don't have the 

726
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,900
skills. 
In fact, nobody in Singapore, 

727
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,600
wants to do programming, you 
know, supporting on to be 

728
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,000
managers. 
I want to be a project manager 

729
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,300
and will be managing director, 
whatever. 

730
00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:48,300
So, for many years. 
We also saw rinse off to 

731
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:50,900
foreigners to do the programming
process in order. 

732
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:54,100
Then how do you get the 
Singaporean back to do all this 

733
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:57,700
programming low-level work? 
The important thing is to tell 

734
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,800
everybody, there's nothing 
called low level in it. 

735
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,600
That's no low level work. 
Everybody is so important. 

736
00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:08,000
Opponent, if we ask you to 
programming, we want us to do 

737
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,500
programming forever. 
So we need to have the job 

738
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:13,300
rotation scheme. 
We have to rotate people, so 

739
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,500
that everybody have a chance. 
So you don't put one person in 

740
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:19,000
such a system maintenance and 
that he's down there for 20 

741
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,100
years or system meetings. 
Then after that, your outsourced

742
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,300
after that. 
Nobody can know how to maintain.

743
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:29,200
So by having a rotation scheme 
for everybody, and also saying 

744
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,500
that no job is low level 
everybody is important. 

745
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,500
So everybody have to eat 
quickly. 

746
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,700
The skills from low level to 
high level. 

747
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,600
I think that's one way that we 
can overcome this. 

748
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,100
We still can Outsource if it's 
because of costs, but how people

749
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,600
still have the knowledge because
we have gone through the ranks 

750
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:52,000
as you mention about. 
This thing a billion traditional

751
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,200
way of thinking they want to be 
managers. 

752
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,400
But a lately I also discussed 
with a few of my guest, there 

753
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,400
seems to be a lot of lack of 
skills in terms of becoming a 

754
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,800
good. 
It technical leadership, which 

755
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,600
also brought me into the 
starting this part. 

756
00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:08,000
Cast, I'm wondering because you 
are now teaching in a university

757
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,300
as a professor. 
So what are some of your core 

758
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,700
things? 
When you teach them before they 

759
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:15,300
start their professional 
Journey. 

760
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,200
Are you talking about technical 
skills or it's more on the 

761
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,800
technical leadership because 
core technical skills. 

762
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,900
I'm sure there are plenty of 
resources that you can just 

763
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:27,500
browse and Google and read. 
But leadership, I think is still

764
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,100
something that is quite rare. 
Especially good one. 

765
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,800
Good technically this, what is 
your approach when you teach the

766
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,900
students in your Visit the I 
teach strategy and I teach 

767
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:41,600
governance and I teach managing 
our emerging technology 

768
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:45,400
leadership of all this. 
It people is ability to 

769
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:49,400
understand the domain. 
So if you cannot translate your 

770
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,100
system to a solution for the 
company, then why were you doing

771
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:55,000
is no? 
Use, I'll give you an example. 

772
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:58,700
A lot of company are grappling 
with how much data data 

773
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:01,100
overload, which is one of the 
chapter, which I wrote here. 

774
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:04,100
What is data, will it because 
indiscriminate collection of 

775
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:06,600
data? 
Every system collect data in the

776
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:11,100
old days organization, have this
application Centric approach to 

777
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,200
data you have application first,
then you collect the data. 

778
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,200
Then after we try to harmonize 
the data, the data warehouse 

779
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,800
data link, what we're going to 
do all the data to be a leader, 

780
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,500
in this new era are. 
Now we have to teach the 

781
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:27,700
organization to think of the 
data they need before you do the

782
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:30,400
application system. 
So the application system is 

783
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,900
just a conduit of collecting 
data, but what do you need the 

784
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:36,500
data for? 
So how do you know what data you

785
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:37,200
need? 
Then? 

786
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,000
You have to put yourself in the 
shoes of the customer, the 

787
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,400
customer doing business with you
and you doing business with a 

788
00:41:43,408 --> 00:41:45,800
customer. 
What are the information that 

789
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,500
you require when you do 
transaction with the customer 

790
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,700
and that forms the basis of your
data requirement from there, 

791
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:55,500
then you build application 
system to collect this. 

792
00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:58,500
Then the other way. 
It was actually, the always when

793
00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:01,400
you have so many application 
system than you have data 

794
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,200
disparity and lots of data 
problem. 

795
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,400
Now. 
Now if you duel data-centric, 

796
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,600
you only collect the data you 
require. 

797
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:12,500
And of course, under the current
privacy laws, even more 

798
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:15,500
important don't just collect 
data for the sake of collecting 

799
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:18,700
data think carefully, what other
data you require. 

800
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,900
So at least your destiny data, 
litigation or that we can 

801
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:24,000
contain because they know 
exactly what they do. 

802
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,700
We have totally makes sense. 
Thanks for sharing that as I 

803
00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:29,600
read the first few chapters of 
your book. 

804
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,300
One thing that strikes me a lot 
of people when they wrote in the

805
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,700
preface or the Accolades in your
book. 

806
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:37,800
One thing that stood out from 
all these people is that they 

807
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,500
mention your leadership. 
Few people actually wrote nice 

808
00:42:40,500 --> 00:42:42,600
things in the book, for people 
who are interested. 

809
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,800
You can read the book. 
Of course. 

810
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,400
What is your philosophy for 
leadership? 

811
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,400
Actually? 
Why you made all these people 

812
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,600
appreciate and honor your 
leadership? 

813
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:54,500
You may not know that I actually
serve in leadership position in 

814
00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:56,900
the community. 
So I was president of the 

815
00:42:56,900 --> 00:43:00,000
computer Society. 
President of the it management 

816
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,300
association was the first 
president of the project 

817
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:06,500
management Institute. 
Singapore, chapter and I am 

818
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:09,900
currently is a card security. 
I live in Singapore, chapter 

819
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:12,100
chairman. 
I was a grassroot leader. 

820
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:15,700
I was a military commander. 
I was a battalion Commander. 

821
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,700
So for me why I'm always chosen 
to be a leader, not because I'm 

822
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:23,200
very outstanding. 
I think it's more because I 

823
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,600
deliver, so when I take on a 
leadership position, firstly, 

824
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,600
it's not because I want to be 
cleaned with the Emperor or 

825
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,700
whatever I go down there, say, 
okay, now, how can I serve you? 

826
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:38,100
I think that impressed us a lot 
of people, that's why I wrote 

827
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:41,700
about servant leadership. 
So when you become a leader, 

828
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:45,000
first thing to do is as a 
leader, my job is not here to 

829
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,700
enjoy the fruits of leadership. 
I want to serve the people to 

830
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:52,500
make my leadership both work and
leave a mark for people to 

831
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:55,000
remember me. 
You can be the president of 

832
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,000
something, and after you gone 
and people forgot that you were 

833
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,000
the president. 
I mean, how sad it is. 

834
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,800
So leave a mark, even writing a 
book is leaving a mark my 

835
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,000
legacy. 
Or people remember what things I

836
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,400
have done? 
Try to mention about seven 

837
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,200
leadership. 
I know you mentioned about the 

838
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,700
key question, how I can serve 
you better. 

839
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:15,500
But what is the actual essence 
of this servant leadership 

840
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:19,600
servant leadership is firstly, 
you put yourself in the shoes of

841
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,600
the people that you serve. 
I'm looking at this either what 

842
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,600
I want from the leader. 
Same as what we want from our 

843
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,600
CEOs. 
When we join a company. 

844
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,300
I'm sure when you join a 
company, you want to see you to 

845
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,600
come up with some fantastic 
thing and then we will all 

846
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,400
Prosper together. 
So He servant leadership is 

847
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,700
first, the people part of my 
organization? 

848
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:44,700
I exist because of the people, 
if nobody is in my organization,

849
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,800
then what am I leader of leaders
on our team? 

850
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:51,400
So I'm leader because all these 
people are here to support me. 

851
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,600
And so I support them to come up
with program to benefit them. 

852
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:59,400
So it's a commonwealth doubting 
that is servant leadership. 

853
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,500
That means really at the same 
time deliver benefits to all 

854
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:06,800
them. 
So proof as we go into this, 

855
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,300
current situation due to the 
covid-19 from home remote work 

856
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:12,800
and things like that. 
Also, disruption happening 

857
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,800
almost all the time. 
You can see a lot of 

858
00:45:14,808 --> 00:45:18,300
Technologies like deep fakes and
so many other technologies that 

859
00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:20,600
are harmful. 
What do you think in your view? 

860
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,200
Because you have gone through 
long years of professional 

861
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,700
Journey, being in the CIO, at 
the top level of the technology,

862
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:28,900
and information systems looking 
forward. 

863
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:31,800
What do you think are some of 
the Futures that we can foresee 

864
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,400
in terms of work, probably in 
terms of technology, or in terms

865
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,000
of Business that are enabled by 
technology in the first place. 

866
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,800
Is the sisters that do not 
Embrace technology. 

867
00:45:40,900 --> 00:45:45,600
The great disadvantage, however,
business that Embrace technology

868
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,200
also in danger because the more 
you computerized, the more 

869
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,700
openings you have to the world. 
The world also have openings to 

870
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:56,200
get you. 
So it's always a two agents for.

871
00:45:56,500 --> 00:46:00,200
So as you progress up the 
technology that you have to beat

872
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,600
up your security knowledge, I 
think are no choice. 

873
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,100
All the people have To be 
educated to be responsible user 

874
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:10,200
of Technology. 
When you join organization, your

875
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,100
organization asks you to sign a 
thing called acceptable, use 

876
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:15,300
policy. 
We all sign without even reading

877
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:17,000
it. 
And then later when you get in 

878
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,600
trouble, then you raise hopes I 
signed this. 

879
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,100
So not only you ask the people 
to sign, you actually have to 

880
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:26,700
provide them, some sort of 
training and put them actually. 

881
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:30,000
Do you understand when you are 
in this organization, use this 

882
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,100
technology. 
Therefore, you actually have to 

883
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:34,500
be responsible for the 
consequences. 

884
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:38,400
You don't usually D of the 
information because as companies

885
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,900
become more advanced, they 
become very competitive. 

886
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,500
Information is very important. 
Data is the most valuable asset 

887
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:47,900
now in organization. 
So we have to keep it just like 

888
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:49,800
money. 
It's even more valuable than 

889
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,500
money. 
The future is, of course, with 

890
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:57,000
the industry 4.0 coming up. 
We know that cyber physical 

891
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,400
teams is for the Timbers of 
reality. 

892
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,500
That means we might be working 
with robots. 

893
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:04,400
And now this is natural for 
human being too. 

894
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,000
I feel that we are not as good 
as the robots because after all 

895
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:11,400
robots, they don't sleep. 
They work 24 hours continuously.

896
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,200
They don't fall sick. 
We are vulnerable, but the 

897
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,000
robots are not, however robots. 
Also in a sense vulnerable to 

898
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:21,200
mistakes that we made in 
programming them. 

899
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:24,900
Ultimately robots will have to 
adhere to some illusion created 

900
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:29,000
by the creators of the robot. 
We need not have to feel any 

901
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,700
inferiority. 
Just have to remember that. 

902
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:35,400
These are all tools that we have
to work with for the Relation to

903
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,800
be Advanced. 
If we say, we are fearful 

904
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,500
adorable. 
So we don't want to remember 

905
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:42,000
robot, the, how can the company 
compete? 

906
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,400
So the thing is that we must be 
able to be confident, that these

907
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,700
are tools that are able to help 
us and we have to know how to 

908
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:53,900
manage all these tools today. 
All the computers are more 

909
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,400
advanced than our brain. 
So, are we afraid of them? 

910
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,500
No, we are not because we get 
used to them. 

911
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:01,600
We use them, just like, 
autonomous vehicles, that's 

912
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,400
coming up and all that. 
I mean, don't be afraid that. 

913
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,000
We loose our skills because down
machine had taken over now. 

914
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,300
And then we must continue to 
exercise some our knowledge. 

915
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,900
So men cannot suddenly because 
of the advance of machine 

916
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:17,400
learning and all that Sundays. 
I was brain stopped working 

917
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,100
because the machine are taking 
over. 

918
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:21,700
So we can go and relax the 
human. 

919
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:24,500
Brain is definitely even more 
powerful than all this 

920
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:26,800
Machinery. 
It's just that they were faster.

921
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,400
Naturally. 
We can look so fast, but 

922
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:32,800
imagination. 
We still have people able to 

923
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,300
dream dreams and It a lot of 
Technology. 

924
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,000
You put all the machine learning
and learned and learned. 

925
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,900
Yes. 
They can do things better better

926
00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:44,000
better than that, more precise, 
but the machine hasn't learned 

927
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,800
how to imagine very thoughtful 
and insightful definitely. 

928
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,500
So how about the remote work? 
The working from home, all of a 

929
00:48:51,508 --> 00:48:54,600
sudden because of the covid. 
Now, every employees, for 

930
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,300
example, now, flexible, in terms
of working, in the office or 

931
00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:00,900
office remote, sometimes and 
there are companies who are 

932
00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,000
actually hiring people from the 
remote countries. 

933
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,800
So as a CIO Joe, Job. 
This, of course, introduced the 

934
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,800
risk, but the data leakage 
security issues and things like 

935
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,500
that. 
What is your view on this? 

936
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,500
Because I'm sure, but I'm pretty
confident. 

937
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:17,300
In fact, that companies will 
start rolling out more flexible 

938
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:20,700
policy going forward. 
I think, as I mentioned very 

939
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:24,600
early in our discussion, 
everything carries risk, there 

940
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,200
are lots of good points about 
remote working. 

941
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:29,700
For example, your company 
Google, right? 

942
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,300
They can now employ people from 
all over every corner of the 

943
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:36,400
world and don't have to Like 
them into a certain place for 

944
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,300
them to work. 
Now, companies have access to a 

945
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:42,100
greater pool of talent, great 
pool of talent. 

946
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:45,000
It's just that the risk of cyber
incidents and all that had 

947
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,400
always been there, just that. 
Now it becomes more apparent to 

948
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,200
all these people who can profit 
from Lex attitude of workers, 

949
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,200
but rest assured in my career so
long. 

950
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,100
If there is a need, something 
will be invented. 

951
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,400
So don't be afraid that will be 
a new tools available to help. 

952
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:08,100
Us to secure and make sure that 
we are secure and I trust that 

953
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:10,500
the invention of the human in 
tentativeness. 

954
00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:13,100
So Allah start off saying, I 
don't know what to do things 

955
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:16,800
already invented or inventor, as
you know, the human being never 

956
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,700
stop amazing people. 
You just like the keyboard is so

957
00:50:19,700 --> 00:50:23,300
small, just a few notes. 
It can produce millions of songs

958
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,300
and new songs are being invented
still. 

959
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,500
So the human mind, the 
creativity is not something that

960
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:31,600
can be limited. 
It's Limitless. 

961
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,400
So, profit has been a pleasant 
conversation. 

962
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,200
I think, due to the time we have
to end but before that, I would 

963
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,000
like to ask one more question, 
which I usually ask for all my 

964
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,800
guests, which is about three, 
technical leadership, wisdom 

965
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,300
that you would like to share 
with all the audience here. 

966
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,800
Okay. 
I thought about it. 

967
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,900
What thing will Define capable 
of clu differentiates you from 

968
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:55,800
other people? 
Number one is to realize that he

969
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,900
have to look through people. 
Nobody is so smart that he 

970
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:00,900
doesn't need anybody else to 
support him. 

971
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,200
So the CIA will achieve results 
through his people. 

972
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:07,500
Secondly, is that no matter how 
smart he is. 

973
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,400
You may be the top student 
anywhere. 

974
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,600
There's always somebody smarter 
in this world. 

975
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:15,500
So recognize that you always 
have to continually learn even 

976
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:18,200
though you may be one of the 
best or later one of the best. 

977
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,000
That's always something that was
surprised. 

978
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,200
You continue to learn and third 
one is, we have to be very good 

979
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,700
Risk. 
Managers because everything that

980
00:51:26,700 --> 00:51:31,400
we do carries risk, you don't 
want to have any mistakes or 

981
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,400
problem, then don't do anything.
You're afraid of. 

982
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,500
Don't do anything. 
Then you don't do anything then.

983
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:39,100
How can you be a successful 
leader? 

984
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,700
So, all leaders, very good 
leaders. 

985
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:46,300
They all have to take risks and 
sometime, you may not work to 

986
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:49,000
yourself up, do it again. 
Do it another way. 

987
00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:51,500
Don't do the same thing because 
you'll be crazy. 

988
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:57,700
Do another way and always be 
ready to tell your supporter. 

989
00:51:57,700 --> 00:52:02,000
Your sponsor about the Reese, 
how you mitigate the risks, the 

990
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,900
whole world progresses because 
people take risk. 

991
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:07,300
Wow. 
Yeah, that's pretty good to sum 

992
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:10,000
up this conversation. 
So Pro for people who would like

993
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,800
to connect with you more or 
maybe learn more from you when 

994
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,200
they can find you maybe online 
or somewhere online but linking.

995
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:20,100
So anybody can request to be 
friend. 

996
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:23,900
They can post questions to me. 
If they are longer conversation.

997
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:26,900
I will give them my email in the
link in the whole world. 

998
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:30,900
Can find me on linking available
to answer any questions. 

999
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:32,100
Yeah. 
Thanks again. 

1000
00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:35,000
Pro for this Pleasant 
conversation, and I'm In the 

1001
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,600
future, we will need more 
capable trust a ball and able 

1002
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,000
leadership from cios like you. 
So again, thank you for this 

1003
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,900
conversation. 
It's been a pleasure. 

1004
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,100
Thank you. 
And we interesting conversation.

1005
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,800
Thank you for listening to this 
episode and for staying right 

1006
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,600
till the end. 
If you highly enjoyed, please 

1007
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,400
share it with your friends and 
colleagues who you think would 

1008
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,200
also benefit from listening to 
this episode. 

1009
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:04,400
And if you're new to the 
podcast, make sure to subscribe.

1010
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:07,300
And leave me your valuable 
review and feedback. 

1011
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,100
It really, really helps me a lot
in order to grow these podcasts 

1012
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:13,600
better. 
You can also find the full show 

1013
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,200
notes of this conversation on 
the episode page at technology. 

1014
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,500
Know the death website, 
including the full transcript 

1015
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:24,200
interesting quotes and links to 
the resources and mentions from 

1016
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,000
the conversation. 
And lastly make sure to 

1017
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,800
subscribe to the show's mailing 
list on technology on all the 

1018
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,900
deaf to get notified for any 
future episodes. 

1019
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:36,100
Stay tuned for the next. 
Technique Journal episode. 

1020
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:37,700
And until then. 
Goodbye.