1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:04,400 Here's what I think is helpful to realize is that the leader of 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,400 an organization or even of a group, they're vertical altitude 3 00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:14,900 sets the ceiling for how effective that organization or 4 00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:18,100 that team can be. Because When leaders operate 5 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:22,600 from lower altitudes, they end up implementing tactics or 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,700 making certain decisions in implementing certain policies 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,400 that while may serve some benefit or ultimately Limiting 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:37,500 for that organization. Hey everyone. 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,900 My name is Henry Surya with Robin. 10 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:43,100 And you're listening to the Tecla. 11 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:46,300 Juneau podcast the show where I'll be bringing you, the 12 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:49,500 greatest technical leaders practitioners and thought 13 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:52,900 leaders in the industry to discuss about their Journey 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,600 ideas and practices that we all can learn and apply to build a 15 00:00:57,608 --> 00:01:01,200 highly performing technical team and to make an impact in your 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,400 personal work. So let's dive into our Journal. 17 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:11,100 Hello again, to all of you, my friends. 18 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:13,400 My listeners, welcome to the technology. 19 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,100 Now podcast the show where you can learn about technical 20 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:19,200 leadership and Excellence from my conversations, with great 21 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,000 thought, leaders in the tech industry. 22 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,800 If this is your first time listening to techno Journal, 23 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:27,100 subscribe and follow the show on your podcast app and on 24 00:01:27,100 --> 00:01:30,300 LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. And for those of you longtime 25 00:01:30,300 --> 00:01:33,900 listeners, if you find my podcast helpful and want to show 26 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,900 your appreciation and support for my work, you can subscribe 27 00:01:36,900 --> 00:01:40,500 as a patron at technology. Now that death / Patron or buy 28 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,200 me a coffee P at technician or death /. 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,500 Tip, my guest for today's episode is Ryan, gottfredson, 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,600 Ryan is a leadership development, researcher and a 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,100 best-selling author of the elevated leader. 32 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:57,200 In this episode, Ryan explained the concept of an elevated 33 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,800 leader and why it is important to have elevated leaders in an 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,700 organization. He described the role of ethical 35 00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:07,000 development in elevating leadership and how it differs 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,300 from the horizontal development that many of us are familiar 37 00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:12,600 with. Ryan described in depth, the 38 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,900 three different levels of vertical development including 39 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:19,200 their cognitive and emotional aspects associated with each of 40 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,700 the level towards the end. Ryan explained the four 41 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:26,200 different types of mindset and why it is important for leaders 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,800 to understand and heal from past traumas. 43 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:34,300 In order to become elevated mind 3.0 l This is such a great 44 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:37,500 conversation with Ryan and I'm really fascinated by the concept 45 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:40,400 of vertical development. I find it is a very important 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,700 concept that all of us leaders must understand in order to 47 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:47,100 increase our Effectiveness and create a bigger impact in our 48 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:49,600 leadership. If you also enjoy listening to 49 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,500 this episode, will you help share it with your colleagues or 50 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:56,000 within your social channels so that more people can benefit 51 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,900 from listening to this conversation. 52 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:01,600 Also leave this podcast of 5 star rating and review on Apple 53 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,600 podcasts and Spotify. You to help make it easily 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,200 discovered by other people on the platforms. 55 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,900 Let's go to the conversation with Ryan after a few words from 56 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:13,900 our sponsors. Are you looking for a new cool 57 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:15,600 swag? Taglit Journal. 58 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,800 Now offers you some swags that you can purchase online? 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,600 These works are printed on demand based on your preference 60 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,800 and will be delivered safely to you all over the world where 61 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,900 shipping is available. Check out all the cool swag is 62 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:31,800 available by visiting technology, know that death / 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,100 shop and don't forget Two brackets self, once you receive 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,700 any of those tracks ahead, everyone. 65 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,700 Today, I have with me, a guest named Ryan gottfredson, he is a 66 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,100 professor leadership. Professor actually at the 67 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:49,000 College of Business and economics at California State 68 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 University Fullerton. So if you're wondering why there 69 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,200 is a leadership professor in this show today the reason is 70 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,100 because Ryan is the Wall Street Journal and u.s. today, 71 00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:01,200 best-selling author of the two books, the success mindsets, and 72 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,600 the elevated leader in. Earlier today, we will cover the 73 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,800 second book that elevated leader leveling up your leadership 74 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,400 through vertical development. I listened to one of Ryan's 75 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,500 podcast episode with another host before, and I found the 76 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:17,500 concept is really interesting this vertical development and 77 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:20,600 hence I'm inviting Ryan to share with us here as well. 78 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,900 In this episode about vertical leadership and development. 79 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,900 So Ryan, thank you so much for this opportunity. 80 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:27,700 Looking forward to our conversation. 81 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,800 Yeah, I know. Thank you so much. 82 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,500 It's always great. And we were talking a little bit 83 00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:33,000 before we started recording. It's always. 84 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,000 Connecting with somebody almost halfway around the world from 85 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,400 where I'm at in Southern California. 86 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,600 So thanks for having me. So Ryan, I always like to ask my 87 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,600 audience first to share their background, so if you can share, 88 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,300 maybe any turning points or highlights in your career. 89 00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:52,100 Well, yeah, I guess let me start where I'm deeply passionate 90 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:54,500 about leadership about self development. 91 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:57,900 I feel like I've almost always been that way and I think it's a 92 00:04:57,900 --> 00:05:01,100 way for me to deepen my knowledge and expertise in this 93 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:03,600 space. Is I decided I I should go the 94 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,000 professor route. So I did my PhD at Indiana 95 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,000 University in organizational, behavior and Human Resources. 96 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,000 My dissertation was on leadership. 97 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,400 One of the things about my dissertation was really great. 98 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,300 Was it allowed me to review the last 70 years of leadership 99 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,000 research. It was just such an eye-opening 100 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 experience, but I would say, one of my takeaways from that 101 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,300 experience. Actually didn't sit too well 102 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:35,900 with what I observed is that Most of the leadership research 103 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,400 over the last 70 years, has been focused on answering one 104 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,100 question and it's not a bad question and it's led to some 105 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:49,100 good answers, but the question is, what do L need to do to be 106 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:51,000 effective? And like I said, that's not a 107 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,700 bad question. In fact, I think that's a 108 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,000 question that most leaders want to know. 109 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,700 Just tell me what to do, and I'll go and do it, but it didn't 110 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:03,000 sit very well with me because I don't think about leadership 111 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:06,900 Leadership is just doing the right things about just checking 112 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:09,400 certain boxes. I think about leadership is 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,600 being more about our being than are doing. 114 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:18,100 And so, for the last about nine years, I have been focusing on 115 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:22,100 how do we tap into the being element of leadership? 116 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,800 And that's what ultimately landed me on this topic that I'm 117 00:06:25,808 --> 00:06:29,300 now focusing on which is vertical development, which is 118 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,900 all about the development approach that's focused on it. 119 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:35,600 Moving are being. So I'm excited to jump in and 120 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,000 share ideas related to it with your audience. 121 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,000 So I think what you just said just now, so resonating with me. 122 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:45,100 A lot of leadership coaching program training program. 123 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:48,200 We are all taught about how to be more effective, be a time 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,200 management. Communication influencing 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,200 skills, presentation, the list goes on and on. 126 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,100 But I think what you said just now is very interesting, right? 127 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:59,100 That we should also Focus or even focus more on our being, 128 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,000 not just the doing part and you call this concept, the elevated 129 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,300 Leader. So maybe first of all, try to 130 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:08,900 explain what is the concept of elevated leader, and why we 131 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,200 actually need to focus on being an elevated leader or what you 132 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,500 say here. Focus on the being. 133 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:17,200 Yeah. So the concepts behind vertical 134 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,400 development, so vertical development. 135 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,600 If you never heard of it, it's a fairly new term. 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,700 It's been around for about 10 years, but the ideas behind it. 137 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:27,800 Go back to the 1960s and they stem from the field of 138 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,700 Developmental Psychology. So, let me just give you a 139 00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:32,400 really brief history lesson around. 140 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:36,700 Psychology developmental psychology started as a field of 141 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:41,100 study in the 1880s from the 1880s until the 1960s. 142 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:45,000 The primary focus of Developmental psychologist was 143 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,800 on children and their development. 144 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:52,300 In fact, they largely assumed that adults when people hit 145 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,600 adulthood, they don't develop. But what we learn from these 146 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,900 Scholars is that as people go from infants to adults, they go 147 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:02,800 through a number of different developmental stages. 148 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,400 And they do. So rather automatically it's 149 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,500 essentially a function of H. Well in the 1960s the select few 150 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:13,100 developmental psychologist started to wonder, do adults 151 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:16,400 develop and if so do they develop through different 152 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,300 developmental stages and what they found in their research was 153 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:22,700 really fascinating. So what they found is that yes 154 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:26,300 adults can develop and that there are three different 155 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:29,800 developmental stages. But what they also found was 156 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:36,100 that most adults never So they identify these three different 157 00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:40,299 developmental stages and what they found is that 64 percent of 158 00:08:40,299 --> 00:08:45,400 all adults, never develop into the second level of adult 159 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,500 development during their adulthood, during their 160 00:08:48,500 --> 00:08:52,900 lifetime. So 35% end up getting to the 161 00:08:52,900 --> 00:08:57,100 second level of adult development and only 1% get to 162 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,700 the third level of adult development. 163 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,900 And so when we talk about an elevated leader, we're talking 164 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:07,200 about How do we go through the process for ourselves to develop 165 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:11,700 vertically as adults? And ultimately, hopefully get to 166 00:09:11,708 --> 00:09:13,600 that highest level. Because when we learn about 167 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,600 that, highest level, what we'll find is that the most effective, 168 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,300 people are the types of people who have developed to that 169 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:24,500 level, when we think about actually some of the biggest 170 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:28,300 names in our worlds, history, people like Mahatma Gandhi, 171 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:30,600 Abraham Lincoln Martin Luther King jr. 172 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,400 Nelson, Mandela. These are types of people that 173 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:37,000 Show a lot of evidence is operating at that highest 174 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,300 vertical development level. So for me what I found is that 175 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:44,800 it's just been really eye-opening to understand what 176 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,800 are these different levels? Because it gets me a sense of 177 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:52,500 well, what is my vertical Outta toot and how do I Elevate? 178 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:56,300 Thanks for sharing this. I was quite intrigued by this 179 00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,200 statistic numbers that you quoted. 180 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,700 I also found it in the book like 64 percent of people actually 181 00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:05,100 only still in first stage. Age less of them actually move 182 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,200 to the next stages. And this is very interesting 183 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,900 because the fact in the industry, we have many of such 184 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:11,500 people, right? Which means that we have 185 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:14,700 probably some leaders who will have not been developed or 186 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:17,400 elevated, so to speak. And I think in the book also you 187 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,500 mentioned, it's pretty rare. If we can find a team that is in 188 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,000 a better psychological State, then it's leader. 189 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,000 So the leaders position, the leaders role is actually very 190 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,200 crucial in any kind of team and hence the company or 191 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,000 organization. So there are also some 192 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,000 statistics that you About if a manager is not effective or not 193 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,400 elevated, it impacts the team, maybe you can share some 194 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,900 interesting statistics here for us to know why this is such an 195 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:46,100 important thing. Here's what I think it's helpful 196 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:50,000 to realize is that the leader of an organization or even of a 197 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,700 group they're vertical altitude sets the ceiling for how 198 00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:00,100 effective that organization or that team can be. 199 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:03,300 And so if we ever want to improve the effectiveness, 200 00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:05,600 Effectiveness of an organization or a team. 201 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,900 What we have to do at a foundational level is help that 202 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:13,500 leader develop vertically because When leaders operate 203 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:18,100 from lower altitudes, they end up implementing tactics or 204 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:21,000 making certain decisions in implementing certain policies 205 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,700 that while may serve some benefit or ultimately limiting 206 00:11:25,700 --> 00:11:29,000 for that organization. So let me give you maybe a quick 207 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,300 example of that and I would say, Microsoft is a company that most 208 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,300 All around the world they're familiar with. 209 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:39,200 When I studied Microsoft leaders, particularly Steve 210 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,800 Ballmer, the CEO before Sachin to do it, Microsoft is a 211 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,600 completely different company now. 212 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,000 Under Sachin Adela then under Steve Ballmer, and what I would 213 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,800 venture to say is that Sachin Adela in my study of him, is a 214 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,500 very vertically developed leader Steve Ballmer. 215 00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:58,500 On the other hand, wasn't as vertically developed. 216 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:01,200 Let me give you an example of some evidence of that. 217 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,700 One of the things that Steve Ballmer did It is he implemented 218 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:08,100 stacked rank Performance Management Systems, these 219 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,700 Performance Management systems are designed to help identify 220 00:12:11,700 --> 00:12:14,900 the top talent in the organization and kind of treat 221 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:19,100 them in a special way that's great because what Steve Ballmer 222 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:23,100 was all about was about how do we stand out and a stack, great 223 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:26,000 performance management system helps them identify those who 224 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,600 stand out? But what he didn't fully 225 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,100 appreciate was when you create or utilize a stack, right? 226 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:35,200 Performance Management. What that actually does is it 227 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,900 Fosters a culture of competition as opposed to collaboration. 228 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:45,500 And so even though Steve Ballmer was really well intended, what 229 00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,400 he was doing, was ultimately putting a cap on the 230 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,800 effectiveness at Microsoft that under bomber. 231 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,300 They were just not able to be very Innovative. 232 00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:58,900 And so, when statue Nadella comes into CEO, he says the sea 233 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:01,600 and CEO stands for curator of culture. 234 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:04,300 And one of the first things that he Did was he threw out the 235 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:05,800 stack? Great performance management 236 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,500 system to create an environment that was much more collaborative 237 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,600 as opposed to competitive and that's fueled huge amount of 238 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,500 growth in Microsoft's. It's at Unadilla took over. 239 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:19,400 So you asked about some statistics, that's kind of an 240 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,100 anecdote but what we find is there's statistics that suggest 241 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:27,700 65 percent of employees would rather have a new boss over more 242 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:33,600 pay 85 percent of employees don't trust their leaders to All 243 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,000 the truth. So these are a couple of 244 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,500 Statistics that demonstrate that. 245 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:44,100 Unfortunately, most leaders don't operate from a really high 246 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:47,000 level of vertical development or altitude. 247 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,100 Thanks for sharing that study case plus Steve Ballmer in 248 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:52,800 implementing stack rank, simply because he has a 249 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,000 well-intentioned strategy. But actually his baby leadership 250 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,300 stage actually kept the thinking, behind the intention 251 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:03,100 implementing the stack Rank. And think we can see many. 252 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,200 This as well, if we are stuck in this kind of a mindset than, 253 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,400 maybe we also implementing decisions or maybe treating 254 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,600 people that is probably not optimal. 255 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,700 I guess many people also, say, you don't leave the job unless 256 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:17,300 you are not happy with your manager, right? 257 00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,400 So, a lot of things actually, hinge on the optimal 258 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,400 relationship with the manager. So, I think this is really 259 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,300 important for us to learn from you, right? 260 00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:27,700 So how do we can Elevate ourselves as Leaders as well? 261 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:31,200 By elevating you also mentioned, there's this vertical 262 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,200 development and there's also the Was it of that which is 263 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,600 horizontal development? Maybe let's go there and try to 264 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,800 explain the distinction between these two horizontal and 265 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:41,800 vertical. Develop. 266 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,900 Yeah really good. So it's just helpful to 267 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:48,000 recognize and just most people aren't familiar with this is 268 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,500 that there's two different forms of development. 269 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:53,900 There's horizontal development and there's vertical development 270 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:56,900 and we are very well versed in horizontal development. 271 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,100 This is the primary form of development of our education 272 00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,200 systems and our corporate training programs. 273 00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:05,100 So horizontal. Mental development is adding new 274 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,600 Knowledge and Skills and competencies to ourselves. 275 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,100 The focus is on doing more in. There's nothing wrong with 276 00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:17,000 horizontal development. It's a lot like downloading an 277 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,200 app onto an iPad, when I put a new app onto an iPad, that's 278 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,800 great because it allows me to do more than what I could do 279 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,900 previously. But what we've got to ask 280 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:32,600 ourselves is does having a new app improve how effectively that 281 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,300 iPad operate as a whole answer. That question is no, of course, 282 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:41,000 not adding a new nap, isn't going to help that iPad, operate 283 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,400 more quickly, do more complex things, but if we want that, we 284 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,800 can't use horizontal development. 285 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,200 We've got to employ a different developmental approach and that 286 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,900 is vertical development. So, vertical development is not 287 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:59,100 helping To do more, it's helping us to be better. 288 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:02,900 And the focus is not on adding an app onto the iPad, it's 289 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:07,100 upgrading our own internal operating system, it's upgrading 290 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,400 our be. So that's what vertical 291 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,600 development is all about. Hopefully that analogy helps 292 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,600 explain why it's so important and let me even try to drive 293 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,000 that point home downstairs. I have an iPad that is about 294 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,700 eight and a half years old. When I pull it up, I could go to 295 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:28,200 the App Store and I could try I to download an app and every 296 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,400 time I try to do it, I get an error. 297 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,800 The error says this app, cannot be downloaded onto this iPad 298 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,200 because the operating system is too old. 299 00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:40,600 It doesn't say it that way, but that's effectively what's going 300 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,600 on. And so I am unable to download 301 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,100 new apps. Well, when you think about 302 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:50,300 corporate training, for example, we may want to develop leaders, 303 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,300 emotional intelligence and we could put them through a 304 00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:57,300 horizontal development approach, that might Let's have you go to 305 00:16:57,300 --> 00:17:00,700 this training on how to listen, more effectively, or how to 306 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:04,700 deliver feedback more effective? Those are kind of doing 307 00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:08,300 horizontal type trainings and those might be incrementally 308 00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:12,300 helpful, but if the individual is a part of this development, 309 00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:17,099 if their internal operating system is wired, such that they 310 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:21,599 have a really hard time, even listening to the ideas of 311 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:25,099 others, maybe, because they have their own insecurities about how 312 00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:27,400 they always have. To be the one with the right 313 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,500 answers then that training on how to listen more effectively 314 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,100 isn't going to work. The operating system that 315 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:38,200 individual has is not compatible with that app that they're 316 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,100 trying to download. So that's one of the biggest 317 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:44,400 limitations that I see in terms of leadership and employee 318 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,600 development is too often. We're trying to download apps 319 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,600 that are more sophisticated than the individuals operating system 320 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,200 to begin with. And so the whole idea here is 321 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,600 not to say horizontal development, His dad, just the 322 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,600 idea is that we also need to consider vertical development 323 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,200 and the operating system so that we can better develop ourselves 324 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,400 as leaders and then so that we could even grow. 325 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:13,600 Here's the argument that I'm somewhat trying to make as we 326 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,200 grow vertically. We enhance our capacity to grow 327 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,000 horizontally. I don't think it's the same the 328 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,900 other way around. I don't think by having more 329 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:26,100 horizontal development necessarily helps us vertically. 330 00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,800 We develop. Wow, that's an interesting 331 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,500 analogy like downloading an app or upgrading your iPad Oso. 332 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,600 This internal operating system that you mentioned. 333 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,600 So I think it makes sense to me why vertical development is 334 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,100 important. And the story of also mention 335 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,100 that if we Elevate ourselves in terms of ethical development, we 336 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:46,200 can also enhance our capacity to develop horizontally. 337 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,700 So I think that's also a very interesting concept and I just 338 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:52,200 want to read the technical definition of vertical 339 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,100 development that you quoted in the book as well. 340 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,100 So, vertical development is elevating lie. 341 00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:59,600 His ability to make meaning of their wealth in more cognitively 342 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,300 and emotionally sophisticated. Wait, so the two key words that 343 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:07,000 I pick here is cognitively and emotionally tell us more about 344 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,200 that. What do you mean by this 345 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,300 cognitive and emotional aspects of the development? 346 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:13,900 Yeah. If it involves both and I in 347 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:16,200 fact I'm going to pick a different term in that 348 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,800 definition to focus on to help us understand those. 349 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,100 So I'm going to pick the term mate. 350 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,100 Mimi. Our mind is a meaning maker. 351 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,900 Machine. That's one of the primary 352 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:31,300 purposes of our mind is to make meaning of our world, but here's 353 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,200 what we need to understand is two different. 354 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,800 People can see the same thing, but make meaning of it 355 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,100 differently and with different levels of cognitive and 356 00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:42,700 emotional sophistication. So, let's step into this. 357 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,500 So I'm going to ask you a question here, Henry, and I'll 358 00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:49,000 curious about your response. How would you say most people 359 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,300 make meaning of constructive criticism? 360 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,100 How do they react when they receive constructive criticism? 361 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,100 I think most people, first of all, will be defensive like, 362 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:04,400 okay, I will receive a negative thing about me not doing well on 363 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,600 some aspects of my work or maybe behaviors whatever that is. 364 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,200 People forget the constructive part because first of all, yeah, 365 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,300 this is about defending myself as only then, secondly. 366 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:17,500 Maybe if the manager conveys it in the right way, then maybe 367 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:20,000 they look at the constructive but that's my view. 368 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,400 Yeah, I think you're right. I think most people are prone to 369 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,900 get defensive. Why would somebody get 370 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:28,000 defensive? Civ when we get defensive, it's 371 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,800 like we're holding up a shield. The only reason why we would 372 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,500 hold up a shield is if we feel like we're getting attacked, 373 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,600 right? So if we make meaning of 374 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,000 constructive criticism as an attack, of course we're going to 375 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,200 get defensive that makes complete sense, but then we've 376 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,000 got to ask ourselves. The question is that cognitively 377 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000 and emotionally sophisticated know, we kind of let our 378 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000 emotions. Dictate our reaction to that 379 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,600 situation. Should we don't necessarily 380 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,300 process through that in a very cognitive way? 381 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,200 So that's a really low level of cognitive and emotional 382 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,700 sophistication. You also leaned into what might 383 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:09,700 be the next level of cognitive and emotional sophistication. 384 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,500 Right. You said, well, if buts my 385 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:15,700 manager and they deliver it tactfully, well then maybe I'll 386 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,800 be more accepted. So that next level we might make 387 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,500 meaning of constructive criticism, as it might be an 388 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,800 attack, depending on who delivers it. 389 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,900 And how a deliver and that to me feels a little more cognitively 390 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,300 and emotionally sophisticated, but to me I don't think it's 391 00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,100 really cognitively and emotionally sophisticated, the 392 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:39,500 most cognitively and emotionally sophisticated people they are 393 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:42,700 able to make meaning of constructive criticism as an 394 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:46,700 opportunity to learn and grow regardless of who delivers it 395 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:50,400 and how they deliver it they recognize that even if that 396 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,900 person may be their enemy and may have mal-intent there may be 397 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:58,600 some truth to what They're saying that I can benefit from. 398 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:03,700 I mean, you're both living life, it is not easy to get there, 399 00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:05,600 right? We have got to be in this 400 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,500 cognitive and emotional state where we are good with being 401 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:13,000 told that we are bad and it's just not easy to get there. 402 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,200 It takes cognitive and emotional sophistication. 403 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,200 So this is just one example looking at constructive 404 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,300 criticism about how people can make meaning of the same thing, 405 00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,900 but in different ways and at different levels of Cognitive 406 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:29,800 and emotional sophistication. I mean, we can explore other 407 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,700 things like failure, different ideas, vulnerability. 408 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:38,400 Like, these are Concepts that people make meaning of in 409 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,300 different levels of cognitive and emotional sophistication. 410 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:45,300 The higher our altitude, the better that we make meaning of 411 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,000 our world and therefore the better. 412 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,100 We navigate our world. So I really like the term making 413 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:53,000 meaning. So simplifying, the cognitive 414 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000 aspect and the emotional aspect. And I think what you mentioned 415 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,600 just As an example is like something really important for 416 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,000 us to understand, right? So we all have our own bias, we 417 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 all have our own perspective, maybe we also have our own paths 418 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,500 that drives us to certain behaviors. 419 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,000 And I think being able to make a different meaning for the same 420 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,900 situation is really crucial for leadership because that will 421 00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:16,600 determine the next step of action that you will take as 422 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,800 part of your understanding of the situations. 423 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600 And I think is really important as well, that we understand how 424 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,600 we actually make meaning. But before we go there, Actually 425 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,200 want to go deeper into these three stages that you mention 426 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:29,800 it. Beginning. 427 00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,700 So you quoted there are three levels of vertical development 428 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,700 so maybe we can go and high-level each of them and what 429 00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:37,700 is the characteristic for each of the stage? 430 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,100 Yeah, I do want to do that. I do want to bring up something 431 00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:44,500 just you leaned into it, just a little bit is in fact, I would 432 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:50,800 say, most people are not conscious of how they are prone 433 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,100 to make meaning of their world. It's just naturally what their 434 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:58,800 brain does and they haven't yet. Vertically developed enough to 435 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,900 be somebody who is able to step outside of themselves and 436 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:06,500 evaluate how they make meaning. As so as we're going to go 437 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:09,500 through the three different levels of vertical development 438 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,900 to me, that is actually one of the biggest signals of whether 439 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:17,700 somebody has gone from Level 1 to level 2 is do they have the 440 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:22,200 capacity to step outside of themselves and evaluate the 441 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,300 quality of their meaning making? Does that make sense to you? 442 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:28,400 Yes, that they need to make sense and I don't want to add as 443 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,000 well from my point of view. There are many nuances in 444 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,700 certain conditions, so I think being able to interpret these 445 00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:36,800 nuances, maybe relate to the levels of stages that you are 446 00:24:36,808 --> 00:24:40,700 about to explain that is well, yep, so perfect. 447 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,900 All right, so let's jump into these three levels. 448 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,600 What are they all about? Well, I think it's helpful for 449 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,500 us to understand that what we're talking about is our internal 450 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,000 operating system and the quality of that is, so at each of these 451 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,200 different levels, our body is programmed To fulfill different 452 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200 needs. So, at the first level, and I 453 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,300 called this mind level 1.0, because it's representative of 454 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:09,300 the quality of our internal operating system at mind. 1.0, 455 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,700 our body is programmed to be safe to be comfortable. 456 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:18,400 And to belong, when we're in mind, 1.0 we want to join and 457 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,900 identify with groups or tribes. That will help us to fulfill 458 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:27,300 these needs of safety comfort and She often times. 459 00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:29,500 What happens is, we will join a group. 460 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000 That could be a family of friend group, a religious group, and 461 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,900 employer a political group, we like to join groups. 462 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,000 And when we join these groups, we usually don't say I want to 463 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,900 take charge. We usually say, I don't want to 464 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,200 take charge. I'll let you tell me what to do 465 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,200 and I will go and do it. Provided, you keep me safe. 466 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,700 Comfortable and feeling, like I belong in the fur at this level, 467 00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:59,200 this doesn't make It's a bad person, but what we are is, we 468 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,100 are a dependent thinker. We are allowing other people to 469 00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,800 dictate, kind of the big choices and we just kind of follow along 470 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,100 with it. Whether were there now or not, 471 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:12,300 we have all been there. So we should all be able to 472 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:15,600 relate to this. So that's mind. 1.0 is focused 473 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,400 on safety comfort. And belonging as we Elevate into 474 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,500 the subsequent levels. What you're going to see is a 475 00:26:21,508 --> 00:26:26,400 dramatic shift in our needs. So at that second level of Cool 476 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,300 development. Mind 2.0. 477 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:32,700 Our body is programmed to a standout advance and get ahead. 478 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,300 In fact, we are now willing to be unsafe uncomfortable and not 479 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:42,000 belong. In order to stand out Advanced 480 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,400 and get ahead. And when we're here, this is 481 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,000 again, this is a place where we have a greater capacity to step 482 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,900 outside of ourselves and evaluate how we make meaning of 483 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,700 our world. We're also able to step outside 484 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,100 of our relationship with our groups. 485 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,200 And say, maybe I don't need to follow everything about my 486 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,600 group, I could develop my own opinions, my own ideas. 487 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,100 So, what's happening here as we shift from mind, 1.0 to my 2.0, 488 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:11,300 we're going for being a dependent thinker to being an 489 00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,100 independent thinking. And when we become an 490 00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:16,900 independent thinker, we have our own ideas. 491 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,600 We usually think, you know, hold on to these pretty tightly 492 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,900 because we've worked hard to develop our own independent 493 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,300 ideas. And now we kind of want to Put 494 00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:29,500 them to the test, we want to implement our idea. 495 00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:34,700 So, when we get to mind 2.0, we generally want to take on 496 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,800 leadership positions something that we didn't want to do in 497 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,200 mine 1.0. In fact, what we find is 35% of 498 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,500 all people operate in my 2.0, but 85 percent of Executives 499 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,900 operate in mind 2.0, they kind of recognize there's a whole 500 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:55,900 bunch of mine, 1.0 people, what if I can employ them? 501 00:27:56,300 --> 00:28:00,200 To do work and they kind of want to be told what to do. 502 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,200 I will tell them what to do. I will employ them and I could 503 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,400 get them to help me stand out advance and get ahead. 504 00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,800 All right, so let me give you an example of a mind 2.0 liter that 505 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,100 I've been working with when I first met her. 506 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:17,600 She's a CEO of an organization and I asked her, how do you 507 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,900 measure success in your organization? 508 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,800 And her answer was double-digit growth year over year. 509 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,700 That's a mind to point. No answer. 510 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:31,100 It's all about outcomes results. Am I standing out? 511 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,000 And that's what she was all about. 512 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:36,800 And she's all about, how do I employ my people in such a way, 513 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800 that will help me get better numbers. 514 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,400 So, that's mine 2.0. Those first two levels make 515 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,000 sense, or do you want to add anything there? 516 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:48,400 Yeah, so the one thing that I just want to highlight is the 517 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400 statistics that you mentioned. So initially, we heard that 64 518 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,300 percent of people are in stage one, and only maybe about 35% in 519 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:57,800 stage 2. But If you look at leaders that 520 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,400 are available out there or the executives, you mentioned 521 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,700 actually the ratio changes simply because leaders want to 522 00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,800 stand out, they want to take that position and hence you also 523 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,500 quoted. Just now, it's actually 85% of 524 00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:12,700 leaders are in stage 2, not in stage 1, right? 525 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,200 So I think you can see this interesting statistics of 526 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,300 different ratio for leadership and also the employees right 527 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:20,800 under them. So, yeah, maybe that's the my 528 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,500 interesting fact. I just want to highlight the 529 00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,900 remember, just add in one statistic there that we've 530 00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:27,800 missed. It is seven percent of 531 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,700 Executives operate at that mind 1.0, that first level, so not 532 00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,300 very many operate there. Alright, so we've covered mine 533 00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:39,000 1.0 mind 2.0, let's jump into mine 3.0 and again, you're gonna 534 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,300 find that the needs shift dramatically, right? 535 00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:49,200 So in mine, 1.0 our needs are really to stand in in mind 2.0, 536 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,000 our needs are to stand out in mind 3.0. 537 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,900 We don't care about standing in and we don't care about Now our 538 00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:01,500 needs are all about contributing adding value and lifting others. 539 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,200 So again, we don't want to stand in, we don't want to stand out, 540 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,900 we'd want to contribute to something bigger than us. 541 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:13,700 And as we make this shift, we started at a dependent thinker. 542 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,400 We've moved to being an independent thinker at this 543 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,000 third level. We becoming interdependent 544 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000 thinker. We don't hold so tightly to our 545 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,600 own independent ideas. We recognize that there's a lot 546 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,200 of Oz. There's a lot of complexity, the 547 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,400 world is not white and black anymore. 548 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,800 It's Shades of Grey. We are also able to see the 549 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,900 bigger picture when we're in mine, 1.0 and we want to stand 550 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:41,200 in. We want to stand in right now. 551 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:45,900 If we're in mind 2.0, we want to stand out right now or in the 552 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:49,900 near future such as, at the end of the year, did we get double 553 00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:53,500 digit growth year over year? That's in the short term in mind 554 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:55,800 3.0. We don't care about standing in 555 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,800 or Handing out in the short term that allows us to focus on 556 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,400 creating value in the long term, I'll just bring up Satya Nadella 557 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,300 again is an example here because when you took over a CEO of 558 00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:11,600 Microsoft, Steve Ballmer had never implemented a purpose 559 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,700 statement in the 14 years, he was CEO Satya Nadella says, my 560 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:19,400 first year. My number one priority was 561 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,700 listening to employees all for the purpose of developing a 562 00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:26,000 really clear and Powerful purpose. 563 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,400 A statement that would guide and direct us, he's focused on the 564 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,100 future and that purpose statement is all about creating 565 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:37,200 value for their stakeholders. And so that's an Evidence of 566 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,200 somebody who operates at that mine. 3.0 level again, not that 567 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,600 they don't want outcomes and results, that's just not their 568 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,300 priority. Their priority is on 569 00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:49,400 contributing to a bigger purpose, something bigger than 570 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,500 themselves. Well, I think that's really 571 00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,000 inspiring stage for all leaders to be in. 572 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,600 Just want to highlight. The needs for these type of 573 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,600 leaders is actually contributing adding value and lifting others. 574 00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:05,100 So maybe if we all can assess ourselves, our Behavior, I will 575 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,300 still contributing to the people and the US. 576 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,800 Are we lifting them? So I think that's really a good 577 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,700 reflection and you also have a personal assessment on your 578 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:14,900 website, which I did a few days back. 579 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:18,500 It's very, very interesting and I think every one of us here can 580 00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:20,900 also do this kind of assessment and see which mindset. 581 00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,200 We are. We tend to think that we are 582 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,000 operating at the higher level but I think this result will 583 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:28,400 Open your eyes as to what state you are in. 584 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:31,400 And I think you also mentioned a few bright side about this in 585 00:32:31,408 --> 00:32:35,000 mind. 3.0 L, they are also having good relationship with 586 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,000 time good emotional intelligence systems thinker and actually in 587 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,700 finite minded, right? So boring. 588 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,500 The concept from Simon sinek anything that you want to add 589 00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:47,300 here regarding this bright side. Well, I mean, these are the type 590 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:49,000 of people that are the most dynamic. 591 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,200 They're psychologically flexible, they have intellectual 592 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,300 humility, you don't really find that for mind 2.0, l For 593 00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:59,800 example, Jack Welsh is a pretty stereotypical leader and people 594 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,100 reference him a lot and to me I see him as being a mind 2.0 L. 595 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:07,300 One of the reasons why I say that is he wrote a book called 596 00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:10,400 winning? I don't think a mind 3.0 person 597 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,700 would ever write a book called winning the percentages here is 598 00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:18,600 that 1% of people get to this mine 3.0 level, only eight 599 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,200 percent of Executives get here as so, what we've just done by 600 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,900 laying out these three different levels. 601 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:29,300 I think naturally. IE, it gets us asking a really 602 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:33,400 powerful question, and it's a question most people never ask 603 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,100 which is part of what makes it so powerful. 604 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,200 And that question, I think we naturally want to ask ourselves 605 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,800 is well, what is my vertical altitude? 606 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,900 What level am I operating at? And I still date. 607 00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:47,000 It is a really powerful question, but I'm sure it's even 608 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,800 the best question that we can ask and here's why and you kind 609 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,400 of stepped into this a little bit Henry. 610 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:54,500 If I'm envisioning you, The Listener here in front of me, if 611 00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,000 you were in front of me, I had to ask you. 612 00:33:56,300 --> 00:34:00,000 Can you see all three mine levels in yourself? 613 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,500 Yes I can see. Yeah, yeah. 614 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:06,400 I'm the same way I can see all three mind levels in myself. 615 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,400 So it's not like we spend 100% of our time in just one of these 616 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,000 mind levels. So another powerful question 617 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,000 that we can ask ourselves is what is my Center gravity? 618 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,900 What percentage of my time, am I spending at each of these 619 00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:24,500 different levels and you alluded to my vertical development 620 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,400 assessment on my website If you go there, it's Ryan. 621 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,900 Got fortune.com. It takes less than 10 minutes to 622 00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,800 take the assessment, but if you get your results, it's going to 623 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,600 help you identify what your Center or gravity, right? 624 00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:40,500 It might say mine 2.0, that doesn't mean you spend 100% of 625 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:44,699 your time at mine 2.0, but that may be where you spend the most 626 00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:46,900 predominant amount of time there. 627 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,600 So there's an assessment that can kind of help us awaken not 628 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,400 just to our vertical altitude, but to our center of gravity. 629 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,699 And I think one of the valuable things that I Encourage you to 630 00:34:56,699 --> 00:35:00,500 consider as you think about your center of gravity is one. 631 00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:08,900 Can I do on a daily basis to get in and stay in mine 3.0 because 632 00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:11,800 I don't think we get there by accident. 633 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,200 We only get there by intention and building the habits that 634 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,800 help us to be in a really sophisticated, a really 635 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,400 cognitively and emotionally sophisticated state. 636 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:24,900 Wow. Yeah. 637 00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:26,500 I like the concept that you mentioned, right? 638 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:29,000 It's like a spectrum. You don't actually just fall in 639 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,200 one bucket and that's it, right? You'll behave, everything. 640 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,300 Perfect. And I think, in your book you 641 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:34,600 also mentioned different situation. 642 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,300 Sometimes, we also behave differently, like, for example, 643 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:41,800 in one particular context, we might act as a mind, 1.0 L, 644 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,200 while in may be many aspects of the work, for example, you can 645 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,900 act like mine 2.0, mine 3.0. So this is a spectrum and it 646 00:35:48,908 --> 00:35:51,900 depends on the context that situations the behavior as well. 647 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,100 So thanks for highlighting that. And I like the concept of center 648 00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:57,100 of gravity. We can move towards different 649 00:35:57,100 --> 00:36:00,800 minds but we then to maybe go back to our center of gravity. 650 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,500 And this is where we need to think about like, how we can 651 00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,200 improve from there. So I think many listeners will 652 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,800 have been inspired by you about this mind 3.0, but I think the 653 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,400 next is how to actually get there. 654 00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,400 And I think coming back to the making meaning that we discussed 655 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,500 earlier. First of all, like how do we 656 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:20,500 consistently know how we make meaning? 657 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:23,600 So you mentioned about two things mindset and Trauma. 658 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,500 Healing our past trauma. So maybe let's go there and 659 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,000 understand how we actually make meaning in our lives. 660 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:34,100 Yeah, it's just really helpful to understand that our meaning 661 00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:38,600 makers are our mindsets. So if we ever want a vertically 662 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,500 develop, we've got to focus on our mindset. 663 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,800 Now one of the challenges I think for most people and 664 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,200 focusing on their mindsets is they don't know what mindsets 665 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,400 are out there. They don't know what mindsets 666 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,600 they have and so it's really helpful to have a I'm work of 667 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,000 mindsets to focus on so that's also something that we could 668 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,300 talk through a little bit. Something I've done is I've put 669 00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:03,700 together in terms of what I've seen out there. 670 00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:06,700 The most comprehensive than research backed mindset 671 00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:08,900 framework to date. While it's the most 672 00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,500 comprehensive, I'm not saying it's fully comprehensive, but 673 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,600 what I've done is I've opened up kind of the doors to academic 674 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,600 research on mindsets over the last 40 years and I've 675 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,000 identified four different sets of mindsets and so maybe let's 676 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,300 just quickly We introduce these. Is that okay? 677 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,800 Henry, yes, that's perfect with me. 678 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,900 All right, so I'm going to use you as a guinea pig here because 679 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:33,100 I'm going to ask you a question. I'm gonna give you a four 680 00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:37,600 different desires and I want you to tell me if society says these 681 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,800 are good or bad desires. Is that okay? 682 00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,800 Yes, I'm all-in. Okay. 683 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,300 So here's the desires, a desire to look good, a desire to be 684 00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:51,500 right, a desire to avoid problems and a desire to get 685 00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:54,800 ahead. Would you say that society says, 686 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,500 these are good or bad? I think most of the society I 687 00:37:58,508 --> 00:38:01,600 would say think it's good to do all those, I guess. 688 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,700 Yeah, because who likes to look, bad, be wrong. 689 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:08,700 Have problems are get passed up, nobody does. 690 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:13,800 But when we have these as our primary desires, where is our 691 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,500 Focus, it's ourselves as the individual. 692 00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:20,200 Like you mentioned getting a head stand out and Advance. 693 00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:23,200 Yeah. It's I want to look good be 694 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,400 right. Get ahead and stand out when 695 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,400 we're here. Here, we're self-focused, we're 696 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,400 in self-preservation mode. These are actually the for 697 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,000 desires that are fueled by the more negative, or I'm going to 698 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,800 say less cognitively and emotionally sophisticated 699 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,200 mindset, fixed closed, prevention in the inward. 700 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,900 Mindsets, on the other end of the Continuum are more positive 701 00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:49,700 mind sets or more cognitively and emotionally sophisticated 702 00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,600 mindset, these mindsets are growth open promotion in at 703 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,900 work, and they carry with them different. 704 00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:59,900 Tires and these are higher ordered desires their more 705 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:03,300 cognitively and emotionally sophisticated desires these 706 00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:07,800 desires, our desire to learn and grow to find truth and think off 707 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,800 to Emily to reach goals and to lift others. 708 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,500 But it's not easy to be here, have these desires. 709 00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:19,100 And here's why is, because if we want to learn and grow, we've 710 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:21,700 got to be okay. Looking bad at times. 711 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,300 If we want to find truth and think optimally, we've got to 712 00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:28,000 admit that we were wrong. Wrong at times. 713 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,600 If we want to reach goals, we've got to wait through problems at 714 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,000 times. And if we want to lift others, 715 00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:37,400 we've got to put ourselves on the back burner time and I don't 716 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,400 know about you but it's just not easy to do those things in those 717 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,800 at times moments. And so this is a place where 718 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,200 once we now have this framework of kind of for more negative 719 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,900 mindsets and for positive - that's what allows us to now do 720 00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:55,800 a deep introspective dive. What is the quality of Mind 721 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,600 mindsets? Where do I fall along each of 722 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,500 these continuum's? And if anybody's interested, 723 00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:03,500 I've got another mindset assessment on my website and 724 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:05,500 they could go take that mindset assessment. 725 00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:08,400 The value here is we've talked about two assessments. 726 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,800 Now, we've got the vertical development assessment, which 727 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,000 helps you identify your Center gravity and then the mindset 728 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,800 assessment to me. What it does is it helps us to 729 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,400 identify the place for us where we're in greatest need of 730 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,400 vertical development, we all need vertical development. 731 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,400 But what do I focus on form? My vertical development and to 732 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,200 me, that's where understanding this framework and having that 733 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,600 assessment can really help us to identify what mindsets to focus 734 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:41,000 on to raise our altitude. Wow, when I hear you describing 735 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,500 this for different types of mindset, I find someone who is 736 00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:47,800 very enlightened in with it, I think of it like, very inspiring 737 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,900 leaders. They are always unless selfish 738 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,900 always think about how to solve the problems always learning and 739 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:56,100 growing our seeking truth never defending themselves. 740 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,000 So I think it's really a very tough situation to reach. 741 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,500 But I'm sure by first being conscious about where we are at 742 00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,700 and what you mentioned also which area that needs us to 743 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:08,900 improve a lot more I think by being conscious that step Step, 744 00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:11,400 so that we can actually move ahead and get there. 745 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,000 So, I think I really like this and many people also, without 746 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,500 knowing about their limiting beliefs or maybe mindset that 747 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:21,700 they adopt, maybe from certain culture, certain family, or 748 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:23,800 certain school. So I think this is also 749 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,700 important because we tend unconsciously to adopt some 750 00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,500 mindsets that probably a bit outdated coming back to the 751 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:32,700 internal OS that you mentioned a bit outdated, and we have to 752 00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:35,100 upgrade them in order to move to the next one. 753 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,900 So the second aspect of how to develop vertically, About 754 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,900 understanding past trauma. So I know it's a bit tough to go 755 00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:43,600 there but let's try to understand. 756 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,700 Why do you think trauma plays? A bigger pot here as well? 757 00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:49,300 Yeah. So what we need to recognize is 758 00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:52,900 how do we come to the quality of mindsets that we currently have? 759 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,300 Well, it's really two things, two brought things. 760 00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:58,700 It's our life's experience in our current culture part of our 761 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:02,800 life's experience, and it's ubiquitous across all people. 762 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:09,300 Is everybody lives through trauma in some form, or some The 763 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:14,100 definition of trauma is our body has a stress response system 764 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:17,300 built within it and it's great. It is designed to take on 765 00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:20,500 stress. But when we encounter situations 766 00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:25,200 that exceeds our body's capacity to deal with that stress, our 767 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,300 body has to go through a drastic measures so that we survived 768 00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:33,900 those situations and those drastic measures are literally a 769 00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:37,900 rewiring in our mind. What they do for us is they 770 00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:41,700 actually shrink down our window and tolerance and they cause us 771 00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:46,000 to be more self protective, in other words, to adapt more of 772 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:51,100 those - self-protective mindset. So, what trauma does for us is 773 00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:54,100 it just causes us. Our body wants to become more 774 00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:59,000 self protected, that is a step away if you will from vertical 775 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,800 development or from the more ideal mindsets of more 776 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,200 vertically, develop people. That's why it's important to 777 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,800 kind of get in touch with trauma, but then here's to me, 778 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,500 The reason why it's so valuable to talk about trauma in light of 779 00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:15,900 vertical development, is because it introduces for me the most 780 00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:19,200 meaningful aspect about vertical development. 781 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,800 And that is, if we want to vertically, develop, we have got 782 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:29,200 to heal our minds, our bodies, and our hearts, to me, that's 783 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,400 beautiful. That's a beautiful part of 784 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,800 vertical development. What I'm finding is that just 785 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,000 everybody needs this, it is not uncommon for me when I'm 786 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,300 coaching and working with CEOs for a CEO to tell me something. 787 00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,500 Like, you're some things that have been told me I try not to 788 00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:50,700 let anybody know this, but deep down, I'm a really insecure 789 00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:55,200 person. Another CEO said, when I was a 790 00:43:55,207 --> 00:44:00,100 child, my best friend was my bite these types of things they 791 00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:04,800 show up in every day in every decision that a leader makes. 792 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,800 And it's not until a leader can heal from these fears. 793 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,500 These insecurities, this trauma that they will be able to become 794 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:16,300 the leader that I imagine that they aspire to be. 795 00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:20,900 And so trauma is something that inhibits our vertical 796 00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:23,200 development. But the good news is that we can 797 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,400 heal from our trauma and that's a critical part of the vertical 798 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,800 development Journey, really beautiful. 799 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,000 Right? So if we all want to elevate our 800 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,000 leadership at this foundational, level is about healing us. 801 00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,500 From our trauma from the past experience that we had. 802 00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:41,900 And I think you mentioned about trauma versus stress, not all 803 00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:44,500 stress becomes drama, right? It's only when we probably 804 00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:47,800 exceed our capacity to deal with the situation, then it becomes a 805 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,700 trauma and I think from my learning as well, a lot of 806 00:44:50,700 --> 00:44:53,600 personal self help and, you know, personal growth framework, 807 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,400 they always relate to our childhood passed in some of 808 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,100 these trauma actually routed from those situations. 809 00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:02,500 Those behaviors and those maybe teachings from parents or from 810 00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:05,000 school, hence, we kind of like inherit that. 811 00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:07,900 And unconsciously behave based on that. 812 00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:10,500 I think some examples that you mentioned about the CEOs 813 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,400 Behavior. Definitely is something that we 814 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,300 have to check out. We cannot just leave it on the 815 00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:16,400 back burner and just assume we are okay. 816 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,300 And showing people that we okay, as well. 817 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,600 I think that we have to work on with our trauma. 818 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,400 And I think what are some of the key things that people can do to 819 00:45:23,408 --> 00:45:27,100 actually work with their trauma or first identify, and in be the 820 00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:29,600 Nexus fixing it, or maybe improve it. 821 00:45:30,300 --> 00:45:33,300 Well, I think that the first step is to actually just learn 822 00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:37,200 more about trauma and the impact Got it has on us to me that I 823 00:45:37,207 --> 00:45:40,200 didn't have itself was a game-changer for me so let me 824 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,500 give people a couple of different resources that I 825 00:45:42,508 --> 00:45:46,100 highly recommend. So one among many but one book 826 00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:48,400 is a book called what happened to you. 827 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,900 It's written by Bruce parry and Oprah Winfrey to me. 828 00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:55,900 It's the best book for stepping into the topic of trauma. 829 00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:59,000 It's very approachable, they articulate the ideas really 830 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,800 easily. So it's a great first step into 831 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,300 the ideas of learning about trauma and the effects on 832 00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:07,900 ourselves. The next book is by far for me, 833 00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:11,700 the most profound book that I've read related to trauma and that 834 00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:14,300 book is called the body keeps the score by Bessel Van. 835 00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:17,000 Der. Kolk, in fact over this last 836 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,400 year, if it wasn't the number one nonfiction book, it was in 837 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,200 the top five of all non-fiction books sold during this last 838 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,500 year. That's an incredibly powerful 839 00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:28,800 book. And honestly, it got me started 840 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,900 on my own, trauma, healing Journey. 841 00:46:30,900 --> 00:46:34,300 So, I was the type of person where I didn't think that I had 842 00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:36,800 trauma in my Background. I mean, my parents stayed 843 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,600 married. They went to every basketball 844 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,200 game that I ever played in. But what I realized after 845 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,000 reading this book, I decided to engage with the trauma 846 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,400 therapist. This trauma therapist helped me 847 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,200 very early on, in my working with her to realize that while 848 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,800 my parents may have been there for me physically, they were 849 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,500 rarely there for me, emotional that effectively. 850 00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:04,000 As a child, I was emotionally neglected and what the research 851 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,600 on trauma is Found related to neglect. 852 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,600 It's the effects of neglect are as bad, if not worse than 853 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,400 physical abuse. And so what I've been able to 854 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,500 awaken to is how this emotional neglect in my childhood, how it 855 00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:21,900 affects me today. I mean, what I came to realize 856 00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:24,700 is it affects all of my relationships at affects my 857 00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:27,600 relationship with my spouse. My relationship with my parent, 858 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,500 my relationship with my co-workers at work and that's 859 00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:33,800 just been a very eye-opening experience when I first learned 860 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,300 about mindsets. Discovered my own mindsets and 861 00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:40,000 work to improve them. I think that's what got me to 862 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,000 shift personally for mine. One point, own of mine 2.0, I 863 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,800 believe that this Awakening to trauma and working on it and my 864 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,800 healing that is help me to step more fully into mind 3.0. 865 00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:55,300 I don't think I'm there 100%. I'm surely not there 100% of the 866 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:58,700 time, but I feel like I'm spending a much greater 867 00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:01,800 percentage of my time there than ever before. 868 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,000 I credit that to working with a trauma therapist. 869 00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:07,800 Doing some of that deep trauma, healing work. 870 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,800 And so, I don't think everybody needs to do that, but statistics 871 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,500 are 70% of adults have lips or trauma. 872 00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:18,600 That is negatively impacted their bodies nervous system. 873 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,100 So most of us have some healing to do. 874 00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:26,100 It's just like I said in a ubiquitous part of life that we 875 00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:29,200 can all work on. Thanks for being vulnerable and 876 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,600 sharing your story. I think that also is an example, 877 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,400 how we can actually analyze ourselves like what kind of 878 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,300 trauma sometimes? We feel like we are fine. 879 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:39,400 We are happy, we progress, we have a good career. 880 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,600 But actually, again, everyone has this trauma, whatever levels 881 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,400 they are in. And I think it's really crucial 882 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,200 because you mentioned, if we can work towards our past trauma, we 883 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,200 can actually have a better chance of moving to mind. 3.0 884 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,000 mindset is probably the first lever that we can do to actually 885 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,600 move to mine 2.0, but maybe trauma is the one that can move 886 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,200 us to be on that. I just want to mention one more 887 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,200 time that actually having elevated leader is very 888 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,800 important in any Any organization like we touched on 889 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,000 earlier? Any team will not be better than 890 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,700 the leader. And I think the second thing 891 00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:13,900 that also your quoted in the book, the culture of the company 892 00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:17,200 is also kept to the elevated leaders mindset. 893 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,700 So let's touch on a little bit on that the importance of 894 00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:22,200 elevated leader, and the culture of the company. 895 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,200 Yeah. What did you see, one of the 896 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,500 things that I do when I work with organizations as I have the 897 00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:30,400 leadership team and maybe sometimes all employees in the 898 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,700 organization. Take my mindset assessment. 899 00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:36,300 What I am found across all? Two teams that I work with. 900 00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:40,900 And now it's probably almost about 50, executive teams every 901 00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:44,800 single executive team that I've worked with the mindset that 902 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,100 they struggle with the most, is that fixed to growth mindset, 903 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,300 they predominantly have a fixed mindset. 904 00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:53,600 I think part of the reason for that, remember when we have a 905 00:49:53,607 --> 00:49:58,900 fixed mindset, our desire is to look good to avoid failure as 906 00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:01,100 opposed to being focused on learning and growing. 907 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,500 I just know Executives feel a lot of pressure Sure to look 908 00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:08,600 good and they're socially incentivized at take on a fixed 909 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,200 mindset. So, what I find is for, I would 910 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:18,200 say, 75% of executive teams, they are actually quite high or 911 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,400 decently high, or on more of the positive side of the Continuum 912 00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,400 for open promotion and outward mindsets. 913 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,000 But they all struggle with that fixed mindset. 914 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,300 What I've come to learn is that profile is the profile of mine, 915 00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:36,200 2.0 leadership. They're very Minded, they want 916 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,300 results. They want outcomes, they want to 917 00:50:38,308 --> 00:50:41,500 hit their goals generally. If you're an executive, you're 918 00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:44,100 not a jerk, right? Kind of developed to the point 919 00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:47,500 where at least I'm somewhat open to the ideas and suggestions of 920 00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:49,900 others. I actually care about people to 921 00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:52,300 a certain degree, don't get me wrong, there's narcissistic 922 00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,100 leaders, who don't, but for the most part, they kind of have 923 00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:59,400 that open, surely that promotion and that outward mindset, but 924 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,100 what they get hung up on is, I've always got to look good. 925 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,000 Another way of saying that is I need to stand out. 926 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,800 Doubt, I need to stand out as so that's the epitome of my 2.0 927 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,200 leadership, but every organization is a little bit 928 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,700 different in terms of how they break down across those 929 00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:17,300 different mindsets sets. But that's usually a huge 930 00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:20,000 eye-opening Journey. For an organization is to look 931 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,500 at what are our Collective mindset. 932 00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:25,500 And so what I'll find is to your point that we talked about 933 00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:31,000 earlier is that the mindsets of that executive team set the tone 934 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,900 for the rest of the organization stated otherwise as you go. 935 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,700 The organization. It is really rare to find more 936 00:51:38,700 --> 00:51:41,500 positive mindsets than what the executives have. 937 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:46,600 And in fact it's usually the executives have fairly positive 938 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:51,300 mindsets and the biggest decrease in terms of quality of 939 00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:54,200 mindsets is going from that executive level to that next 940 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,700 level down. That's the biggest decrease as 941 00:51:56,700 --> 00:52:01,100 we go down the organization, there's usually a huge jump on 942 00:52:01,100 --> 00:52:03,800 that level and then they continue to decrease and of 943 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,700 course there's usually Some pockets and may do better than 944 00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:08,500 other Pockets within the organization. 945 00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:11,700 But if anybody's listening to this, who is a organizational 946 00:52:11,700 --> 00:52:14,900 leader who finds this topic, interesting, and it would be fun 947 00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:17,000 to explore. What are the collective mindset 948 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,200 to your organization? Wow, I think I really like the 949 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,300 way you mentioned about this. So the executives at the top 950 00:52:23,300 --> 00:52:26,300 actually probably sets the tone. That's the right direction, 951 00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:28,600 right? Most likely not many people 952 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,700 below the executives actually have a higher mindset or if 953 00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:34,500 there is any of there will be probably our state, or maybe 954 00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:37,000 they can. Like self eject themselves from 955 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,300 the situation simply because they think it's not the right 956 00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:41,800 way to go, so I think that's really crucial. 957 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,400 Why we focus a lot on elevating, our leaders. 958 00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:47,200 So that the culture of the company, the direction of the 959 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,400 company actually is selected appropriately based on the 960 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,200 mindset than the thinking that we have. 961 00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:54,400 And I think I just want to touch on a little bit about fix and 962 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,400 growth mindset. Almost any leader. 963 00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,800 I asked these days know about this Theory, the theory of fixed 964 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,700 mindset and growth mindset, but it's very interesting that you 965 00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:04,800 said, many of them are actually still in the fixed. 966 00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,100 Mindset. I think it's also an eye-opener 967 00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:10,800 for me, just imagine, okay, if we've got 100 liters in the 968 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,800 room. And if I asked them, the 969 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,700 question, do you have a fixed mindset or a growth mindset? 970 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,100 Do you think any of them would say fixed, oh, they all see 971 00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:23,900 themselves as having a growth mindset in some ways, they may. 972 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:29,100 But what the data Bears out is that Executives generally have 973 00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:32,300 more of a fixed mindset. In fact, what I generally find 974 00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:36,500 is that in an executive team to Thirds of the leaders will have 975 00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:38,800 a fixed mindset in one. Third will have a growth mind. 976 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,600 Wow, again, it's also a reminder for us leaders, managers leaders 977 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,900 out there. If you feel that you are already 978 00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,700 in the growth mindset, think again and see your behaviors. 979 00:53:48,700 --> 00:53:50,100 And I think it's a good reminder. 980 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,400 So thanks Ryan for this conversation. 981 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,700 I really love our conversation but unfortunately, due to time I 982 00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:59,100 think we have to wrap up but I have one last question that it's 983 00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:02,600 mandatory in my show to ask, which is to share your tree 984 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,800 technical leadership system. We can forget about the text 985 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,500 part yet and focus on three leadership is them. 986 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,900 Is there any kind of advice? That you want to impart to our 987 00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:15,400 listeners hear about leadership? Yeah, so I think for me the 988 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,500 number one lesson of leadership and we didn't touch on this 989 00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:21,500 directly but it surely related. The number one lesson of 990 00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:25,100 leadership is to become someone others. 991 00:54:25,100 --> 00:54:29,300 Want to follow most leaders, operate from a place called 992 00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:32,800 organizational power, where they lead in such a way that others 993 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,000 have to follow them, not because others want to follow them. 994 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,300 So, the number one lesson of leadership is we need to be 995 00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:42,200 somebody that others want to follow. 996 00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:43,800 So that's maybe Point number one. 997 00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:47,200 Well, how do we become somebody that others want to follow? 998 00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,500 We've got to vertically, develop. 999 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,300 And if I was to say the third point, and we've already talked 1000 00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:54,300 about this, as well, is into me again. 1001 00:54:54,300 --> 00:54:56,800 This is the most beautiful message associated with vertical 1002 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,500 development. If we want a vertically, 1003 00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:02,200 develop, we've got a heal, our minds, our bodies, and our 1004 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,800 hearts, and to the degree to, which we do that will operate at 1005 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,000 those higher levels. Wow, it's beautiful is set, 1006 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:10,500 right? So let me repeat one more time. 1007 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,300 As a leader, you want to become someone who others want to 1008 00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:17,300 follow not necessarily have to follow. 1009 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,700 I think there's a very hard like big distinction want to follow 1010 00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:23,700 and have to follow. So I think if all leaders here 1011 00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:26,700 can change so that people want to follow us rather than having 1012 00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:29,000 to follow us. I think that's a big shift in 1013 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,700 itself, right? And there's so many things that 1014 00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:34,100 we have to transform within ourselves in order for people 1015 00:55:34,100 --> 00:55:37,100 wanting to follow us and that speaks a lot to this mindset 1016 00:55:37,100 --> 00:55:39,300 trip. .0 that Bryan just shipped today. 1017 00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:42,900 So Ryan, if people are interested in these topics want 1018 00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:46,000 to know more want to learn more. Are there any resources links 1019 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,100 online that you can share with the audience here? 1020 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,500 Yeah, huge amount of resources on my website. 1021 00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:54,200 I almost feel like you could spend a day just in my website. 1022 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,300 I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but Ryan 1023 00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:58,800 got fortune.com go there. We've got talked about 1024 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,400 assessments, Just Books access to videos articles Etc. 1025 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,200 I've got couple of different libraries digital coaches 1026 00:56:05,300 --> 00:56:06,900 cetera. So anyways there's a lot there 1027 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,300 and If anybody wants to connect with me on social media, on most 1028 00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:12,800 active on LinkedIn and would love to connect with anybody 1029 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,200 there. Thanks again for your time Ryan. 1030 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,300 I hope people listen to this episode and get inspired and 1031 00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:20,000 they want to move to the Mind 3.0. 1032 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,200 Thanks again for sharing all these great resources. 1033 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:28,600 You're very welcome and me too. Thank you for listening to this 1034 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,000 episode and for staying, right until the end, if you're highly 1035 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,800 enjoyed it, I would appreciate if you share it with your 1036 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,800 friends and colleagues who you think would also benefit from 1037 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,300 listening to this episode. And if you are new to the 1038 00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:43,300 podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave me your valuable 1039 00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:46,300 review and feedback. It helps me a lot in order to 1040 00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:49,600 grow this podcast better. You can also find the full show 1041 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,900 notes of this conversation on the episode page at Tecla 1042 00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:56,100 journal, the death website, including the full transcript 1043 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,800 Resting quotes and links to the resources mentioned, from the 1044 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,600 conversation. And lastly, make sure to 1045 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,900 subscribe to the show's mailing list on package. 1046 00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:08,500 You know, dot f to get notified for any future episodes. 1047 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,500 Stay tuned for the next technology. 1048 00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:13,400 No episode. And until then goodbye.