1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,600 Today's episode of the technology on our podcast is 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,600 proudly sponsored by emergence. The Journal of business agility. 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,200 This quarterly publication brings you inspiring stories 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,800 from the most Innovative companies and explores the 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,900 themes of the new ways of working reclaiming management 6 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:19,100 and humanizing business. It brings together a curated 7 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:22,200 selection of exclusive stories by great, thinkers and 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,200 practitioners from around the globe that can broaden your 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,400 horizons and Spark. Your creativity. 10 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,600 Each issue is hen Illustrated. And contains 100% pure content, 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,000 use the promo code tekhelet eech leads2results been percent 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,200 discount on your annual subscription. 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Visit business agility, dot institute's less emergence to 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,900 get your addition and support the publication supporting your 15 00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,300 podcast. Here's the link One More Time. 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,400 Business agility, dot Institute, / emergence. 17 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,600 What I discovered is that for leadership, then would not such 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,400 a thing. Like stack Overflow, where all 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,800 the content was organized, categorized Kool-Aid. 20 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:03,300 So, you can find the right answer to the right question. 21 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,700 We are not trained in some of the things that expect for us in 22 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:09,800 these leadership roles that the end going from development to 23 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,000 management is not a promotion. If someone is thinking about 24 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,400 that as a promotion, they need to forget about that because 25 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,900 it's an entirely new career when your schedule is totally 26 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:22,300 different day by day, hour by hour to what you would expect 27 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:25,600 from a developer is not a developer promotion anymore, is 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,400 a different careers. So there is normally a lack of 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:34,900 proper guidance for that. Hey everyone. 30 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:40,500 My name is Henry Surya be Robin. And you're listening to the 31 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,400 tekhelet journal. The show will be bringing you 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,800 the greatest technical leaders practitioners and thought 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,200 leaders in the industry, who discuss about their Journey 34 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,800 ideas and practices that we all can learn and apply to build a 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,400 highly performing technical team and to make an impact in your 36 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,100 personal work. So let's dive into our Journal. 37 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:09,800 Hello, everyone. Come back here again with 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,500 another episode of the technology on our podcast. 39 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,600 Thanks for spending your time with me today, listening to this 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,200 episode. If you haven't, please follow 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,200 technology, you know on your podcast app and all social media 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,100 channels on LinkedIn Twitter and Instagram, you can also make 43 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:28,500 some contribution and support this podcast by subscribing as a 44 00:02:28,500 --> 00:02:32,800 patron at technology. No, dot f / Patron, and help me 45 00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:35,400 to continue producing. Great content every week. 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,600 For today's episode. I'm happy to share my 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,900 conversation with Alvaro Moya Alvaro is the founder of 48 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:46,500 leader.com, a community that prepares, and transforms the 49 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,800 tech leaders and ctOS off tomorrow through immersive 50 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:52,000 experience. Shal and community-driven 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,500 programs. In this episode Alvaro, shared 52 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:59,200 the story of leader and why he decided to start it learning a 53 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,400 lot from his own journey, and struggles working in, multiple 54 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,800 startups and scale UPS. He then shared his View. 55 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,900 Technical leadership. Some of the major challenges 56 00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:12,500 surrounding it and why it is important for companies to 57 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:15,700 prioritize on improving leadership, especially for 58 00:03:15,700 --> 00:03:20,200 startups and scale UPS Alvaro, also touch on how Tech leaders 59 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,400 can create and nurture, high-performing teams with an 60 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,800 emphasis on cultivating ownership, as well as giving 61 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,600 some advice on how we should plan and choose our career track 62 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,500 and progression, including great tips and practices on how we can 63 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:37,200 become better Tech leaders. It's through practicing 64 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,600 leadership. Informally, I highly enjoyed my 65 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,100 conversation, with Alvaro learning about how to grow an 66 00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:47,200 upscale technical leadership. And I hope that you will enjoy 67 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,300 this episode as well. Consider helping the show by 68 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:53,800 living it, a rating or review on your podcast app, and you can 69 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,600 also leave some comments on our social media channels. 70 00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:59,000 Though. It may seem trivial those 71 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,000 reviews and comments are one of the best ways to help me get 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,400 this podcast to reach more listeners and hopefully, they 73 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,700 can also Of it from all the contents in this podcast, 74 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,300 without further Ado. So let's get this episode 75 00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:15,800 started. Hey, welcome everyone to another 76 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,600 new episode of the tech lead Journal. 77 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:20,600 So today I have with me, Our Guest named Alvaro Moya. 78 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,700 He's from Spain. Let me introduce Alvaro a little 79 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:25,800 bit. Alvaro is the founder of 80 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:29,200 leader.com., So it's spelled Li dr.com. 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,900 It's not the typical leader that you would be familiar with. 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,800 It is actually an ecosystem for season techniques. 83 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,600 Yes, so maybe I'll borrow later on, we'll be introducing. 84 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,800 What leader is all about. Alvaro is also someone who is 85 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,200 very experienced working in startups in sitio role. 86 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,900 He has co-founded his own startups and at young age as 87 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:52,000 well at 20 years old, so, it started as a side project. 88 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,400 And then later on, he work on multiple startups, acting a CDO 89 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:59,000 in multiple scale UPS as well. So, today we are going to talk a 90 00:04:59,008 --> 00:05:02,600 lot about technical leadership CTO role and techniques in 91 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,100 particular. So Alvaro. 92 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,600 Welcome to the show. I'm really looking What to 93 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,100 learning from you about how to actually become a better CTO and 94 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,800 Technical leaders, welcome to the show. 95 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:13,600 Thank you. Thank you very much. 96 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,800 Henry, for the warm. Welcome, for sure. 97 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,200 I will be talking about video.com later on because at 98 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,500 the end talking about tech leadership and being the company 99 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:23,400 around that for sure I will bring examples. 100 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:26,500 I will not be able to avoid it. But yeah, let's do it later. 101 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:28,700 I think we're going to start with the question you prefer. 102 00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,600 So in the beginning maybe for you to introduce yourself 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,300 howling more about your career. What's your journey like and 104 00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:35,800 maybe some highlights or turning? 105 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,300 Senior career for all of us to learn from better get. 106 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:43,100 So I have been a little intense. I have been CTO and I recognize 107 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:46,300 here a couple of parts that are most common so evolving from so 108 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:50,200 what developer into senior, then at some point, getting the 109 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,500 management path going from Tech or team lead to engineering 110 00:05:53,500 --> 00:05:55,500 manager, and then a building. And then at some point, maybe 111 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:58,400 jumping into a fresh new, start up as a CTO. 112 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:01,600 This is normally one of the most common paths for CTO, and I 113 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,400 followed another one. That is not so common, but 114 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,800 definitely I made a lot of people. 115 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:10,400 Following that which is I start as a developer you can or cannot 116 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,200 leave the team, but at some point you understand that your 117 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,300 work is in the startup ecosystem, you have decent 118 00:06:16,300 --> 00:06:19,600 typically on mindset and that you aren't born to do this kind 119 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,200 of things on a much higher impact with much more 120 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,000 responsibilities and being on the decision-making part of the 121 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,500 company. So just create your own seat, 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,700 create your own roll, starting up, co-founding. 123 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:34,100 I start off as a CTO and then by the way, even when you have no 124 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:37,400 clue, getting help from a scenery, Doors or mentors, you 125 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,400 are doing the path. And even if you are feeling, you 126 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:40,900 are trying again, and again done. 127 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,700 So, that was my path after 45 years coding in different 128 00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:47,700 environments, research, big corporate, a small companies. 129 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,700 I had the opportunity to launch a new setup. 130 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:54,000 We want to contest a contest and with the money, we were able to 131 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,000 start the operations and prepare the first MVP, so I didn't have 132 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,100 any doubt. I started in this ecosystem 133 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:02,200 world and I have never moved from there. 134 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:05,400 I never look back and I am really passionate about that. 135 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,400 See, Out point back in 2013 since then, co-founding 136 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,300 different startups and acting always a CTO VP of engineering 137 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,900 until the last stage is really being into big companies. 138 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:20,700 Like we folks right now last year and then helping also 139 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:23,200 revolute during this year, as a Consulting manager. 140 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,100 So, he's like my entire career as a CTO and the sub ecosystem. 141 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:30,200 I usually call it from zero to unicorn. 142 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:33,400 It was my goal. I wanted to be in all different 143 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,700 stages so I know how it looks like. 144 00:07:35,900 --> 00:07:38,700 For every single stage which are their handicaps, which are the 145 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:41,000 challenges for the company, which are the challenges for the 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,700 tech team in order to keep growing and keep being more 147 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:45,700 successful. So, at some point, when I 148 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:49,500 created my own thing, I had some savings on one side and also the 149 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:53,000 knowledge to know with big things to avoid in order to make 150 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,000 it as successful as becoming a unicorn at some point. 151 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,200 So, that's my darling. And also, so thanks for sharing. 152 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,300 Your story is very interesting. Like you started, of course, as 153 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:05,200 a developer. Most of the CTO, I would assume 154 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,300 that they will In some technical roles in one way or the other, 155 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:11,100 and then you move into startup founding your own startups and 156 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:14,100 then moving on to different startups, becoming sitio, VP of 157 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,600 engineering and all that you seem to have gone through 158 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,500 multiple stages in the startup and Technical leadership. 159 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,600 Maybe if there's a few things that you can share, what are the 160 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,400 most learnings that you saw from your career Journey so far. 161 00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:29,600 Things that probably is a highlight for you throughout 162 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,400 this number of years. Given that every single decision 163 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,700 I have made in nearly eight years. 164 00:08:35,900 --> 00:08:39,299 I have been the first time I was facing the challenge that we're 165 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:41,799 facing that decision and I didn't have the support or the 166 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:43,799 knowledge to know what to decide. 167 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:45,900 I would say that the thing do not have learned. 168 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,600 The most is to be brave. Just to take the risk. 169 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,000 I think that is what definitely defines my career because 170 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,100 everything was a decision that I have never made before. 171 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,300 Most of the times with not enough support. 172 00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:00,500 Most of them were not like going to destroy the company in the 173 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:03,000 short term, but at the end it's a decision that will be in the 174 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,100 company for the next eight years. 175 00:09:05,300 --> 00:09:06,800 Some of them. Really defining. 176 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,800 If the company is going to shoot by for not from which kind of 177 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,700 people you hire after the first developer or architect in the 178 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:17,200 company to decide in for a certain technology or text tag. 179 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:20,600 You are setting the company and when you don't have enough 180 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,200 background or enough expertise, but you just rely on your guards 181 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,600 to rely on how much information you can consume in a short 182 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,200 period of time to be a bit safer in taking the decision and you 183 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,900 feel a bit more confident. Even if it's a fake feeling. 184 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,600 But for me taking risks, He's making decisions that is 185 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,500 inherently involved in taking risks, and learning as fast and 186 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:45,300 as much as possible was for me, the way to really save this 187 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,100 Vibes. Most of the times was internet. 188 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:50,200 But as soon as I was able to understand how important it is 189 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,800 to build your network and to rely on mentors, and advisors. 190 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,800 I was relying on then heavily. I'm building a network where I 191 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,400 had this kind of support that. I've been saved that. 192 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,500 I am sharing the experience on the challenge with other so they 193 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:05,100 can give me their point of view. That advice is not only relying 194 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,900 on stack overflow. All or other websites to find 195 00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:11,300 answers from the other part of the world is someone you trust, 196 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:14,400 someone that is really into your business, knows about your 197 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,000 challenge is not about your context. 198 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:19,300 So that information is a bit more useful than just going for 199 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:21,100 some advising Corps hours, that would flow. 200 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:24,000 So, when you set about stack Overflow, right? 201 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,400 Most of the technical leadership, wisdom, things that 202 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,400 are abstract and vague mostly are not on stack Overflow. 203 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:32,500 Could it be also the reason why you started leader.com? 204 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:33,800 Maybe you can share a little bit. 205 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,700 What does leader Dorko do? And could it be also inspired by 206 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:40,700 your journey so far? It's exactly like that. 207 00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:44,500 I mean, I have been raised with this open-source principles and 208 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,300 he's giving back to the community, keep first, as the 209 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:49,900 principles, or the mantras to build something meaningful, in 210 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:51,300 Tech. What I discovered. 211 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:54,100 Is that for leadership, there were not such a thing, like, 212 00:10:54,100 --> 00:10:56,700 stack Overflow, where all the content was organized, 213 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:59,800 categorize created. So, you can find the right 214 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,200 answer to the right question. This is why we study leader dot 215 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,200 Co has an ecosystem for this kind of rolls, so, In this 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,300 patient in the Center and surrounding this version with 217 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:12,600 all the kind of services or resources leaders aspiring 218 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,200 technicians or even seasoned technicians can move in their 219 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,000 journey to make the work standing out to make the best 220 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,400 out of it and to really feel safer than I fail. 221 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,400 Taking decisions blindly. So we have this part of the 222 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,600 chassis connecting with us in creating our own resources more 223 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,900 like formal trainings for aspiring leaders. 224 00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:33,600 We have one of the few take leadership, your boards here in 225 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,400 Europe, we offer City. Of service for startups where we 226 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,900 are, nurturing our consultant with all the people from the 227 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,000 community. So we offer the job there and we 228 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,200 train them to work the way they stand up signs acting for this 229 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,300 kind of part-time City. Oh sweetums Theo's. 230 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:49,400 So at the end. It's like putting these people 231 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,800 in the center, which is leaders in Tech from techniques to ctOS, 232 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,300 putting them in the center and creating a suite of services 233 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,200 around, not only for them, but also for the people that are 234 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,500 looking for that. So creating this kind of 235 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:05,500 symbiosis or synergies between the startups scalars and this 236 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:08,300 can Oh, that, that really high in the mountain for a reason and 237 00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:10,600 these jobs because they stopped by because he's in is warming, 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,700 the digital revolution of the Kobe is even increasing at 239 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:15,400 another paste. That's why. 240 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,500 Then he said, huge gap between offer and demand for these roles 241 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,700 and that's what I am trying to fix one step at a time. 242 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,000 So, as you mentioned that, I myself look in the startup. 243 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,800 Now, there are a lot of challenges in startups, right? 244 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,800 Especially regarding technical leadership. 245 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,500 I mean Tech, stack is probably one thing. 246 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:33,800 But given that so many resources available. 247 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,100 Why do you think Tech teams? He's faced so many challenges 248 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:40,300 when it comes to technical leadership or even when they 249 00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:42,200 scale up as they hire, more and more people. 250 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,400 What do you think are some of these challenges? 251 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,700 One of them is the lack of proper guidance. 252 00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:48,600 I have mentioned, which is from TAG. 253 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,300 We are not trained in some of the things that they expect for 254 00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:53,400 us in these leadership roles at the end. 255 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,500 Going from development to management is not a promotion. 256 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,300 If someone is thinking about that as a promotion, they need 257 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:02,500 to forget about that because it's an entirely new career when 258 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:05,600 your schedule is totally different day by day hour by 259 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,900 We're to what you would expect from a developer is not a 260 00:13:08,908 --> 00:13:11,400 developer promotion anymore is a different career. 261 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,400 So there is normally a lack of proper guidance for that 262 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,300 internally, because in these startups Caleb's, maybe at that 263 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,400 point, that is not still HR or not, the standard Learning and 264 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,100 Development processes. And in the case of external, I 265 00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:26,500 have already mentioned, that is a lack of references in lack of 266 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:29,300 standardization and the lack of a community that could really 267 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:32,000 connect all these topics and standardize the roles, which are 268 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,700 the function responsibilities and what is expected from this 269 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,700 kind of professional. Al's as well as you have it for 270 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,700 a scrum Masters. That goat cheese product 271 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:43,100 managers, that have created a hybrid rounded position. 272 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:46,100 They have really defined and standardized to associations as 273 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,900 well. They have prepared properly 274 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:50,500 training, a lot of training in different countries 275 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,700 certifications and it's like, more or less clear what the 276 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:55,900 product manager should be doing with the product. 277 00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:58,300 Neither should be doing what the CPR should be doing. 278 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,100 They have the tools. They have the mentors. 279 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:01,900 They have the network. They have the community. 280 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:05,300 This is, I think not happening for leadership in Tech, and this 281 00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:07,400 is for me. Of the problems and the other is 282 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,500 in this stage startups. Gaelic is always high growth, 283 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,700 both of managers. And for engineers, you have 284 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,600 better things to do. There is always a priority to 285 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:21,000 grow the product to which New Market to put new features to 286 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,200 compete with the big players and to go out of the MVP stage to 287 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,800 have a fully fledged product. And for that, you need to grow 288 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,900 the team. This problems are big enough to 289 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:32,900 really justify that all your team from both engineers and 290 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:35,600 managers are encoding in really working. 291 00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:40,000 In on delivery, so they have no room for proper training. 292 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,200 They have no room for the leader, for the CTO, to be the 293 00:14:43,208 --> 00:14:45,800 mentor of the team. And at some point they struggle 294 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,500 with out, or they don't act in advance before they big wave of 295 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,300 growth is arriving. And by the time they really need 296 00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,500 to deliver. They have not prepared the team 297 00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:56,200 to grow. They cannot prepare the right 298 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,800 skills in the right people that are maybe they write wants to 299 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,100 grow into management positions or they have not prepared at 300 00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:05,400 hiding process in advance. So they add new managers are 301 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,900 already. Here by the time and then 302 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,200 learning Court already done. They have understood the culture 303 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,100 of the company, the Dynamics, how the company is evolving on, 304 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:17,300 which are the major problems that the tech team has to fix in 305 00:15:17,300 --> 00:15:20,800 order to ensure this successful and organic stable growth. 306 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:23,000 So I would say these kind of problems. 307 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,400 So when you say about scaling up organically, right, I mean most 308 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,000 of the startups, of course, started with a small team, very 309 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,000 close relationship, whereby they all help each other even like 310 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,600 for technical leaders. There's not much. 311 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,600 Leadership pressure is more about doing solving problems, 312 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,500 building up your products. And when you skill, that's when 313 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,800 actually, you realize that. Oh, actually, I need all these 314 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,900 management leadership skill set within the company. 315 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,600 So there are two aspects of cost. 316 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,200 The first thing is about hiring an external people to come in. 317 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,800 But how about the internal, the people who have been there? 318 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,100 Since the beginning of the startups? 319 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,500 Could you maybe give some tips? How should these people who have 320 00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:03,900 been around in the company building up from 0 up to a 321 00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:05,600 certain skill? What should they? 322 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,700 Actually upskill their management or leadership. 323 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,100 So, in order to upscale, I think the first thing is to be clear 324 00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:13,600 about what is expected from them. 325 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,400 So having clear career path, even if you are getting a 326 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,100 borrowed from another, for example, this career path that 327 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,400 you can find in levels dots, a formation. 328 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,800 The one that also published the MC stay here in the engineering 329 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,300 manager as well. So you can find reference there 330 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,500 so you can get your own career path easily. 331 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:33,200 But once you have these already assumed an internalized by the 332 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,600 whole team, so they understand how it's going to be. 333 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:37,700 The problems and what is expected from them? 334 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,100 You can prepare this Learning and Development initiatives, 335 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,900 according to the skills that they need to Foster for the 336 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,700 different roles and here in order to prioritize those 337 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,700 initiatives. I think getting a proper budget. 338 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,800 If you realize that you are CTO or your HR team, if any cannot 339 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,400 deal with training them, properly or cannot deliver all 340 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,500 the time needed for this mentorship is looking for 341 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,700 Partnerships. Here is where it leader can help 342 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,300 as well, but you need to prepare a proper budget for that. 343 00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,000 You need to be clear about that. How much you are going to 344 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,200 prioritize them growing in the Knee through the amount of money 345 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,000 that you will dedicate to them. So that for me is important, but 346 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,200 the other part is having proper mentally. 347 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,599 So for me, the most important part is that they have proper 348 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,900 mentoring and personal guidance into the company directly from 349 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:22,300 taking this onboarding in a new position. 350 00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:24,200 Remember is not a promotion is a new row. 351 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,599 So taking it as when you are on boarding a new person into your 352 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,100 company, you are taking care of them. 353 00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,700 You are giving them a learning Corp assigning, the things 354 00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:33,800 little by little presenting different people. 355 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,500 So they are getting used to the pants and Edwards. 356 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:39,500 So you need to do the same for someone that is going to be a 357 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:42,500 new manager. So, assignments, leader Benito, 358 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,500 taking them by the hand, and then exposing them to the 359 00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,900 challenges. By making them feel safe that 360 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:50,700 you are there, and then slowly removing yourself from the 361 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:53,400 channel, from the equation, helping them as well as clarify, 362 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,600 the long term personal goals. So they being clear about what 363 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,500 they want to do in life if they really want to live knowing what 364 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,600 is there for the next stage knowing clearly, was there with 365 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,100 this career path. So when I meet of your day as a 366 00:18:07,108 --> 00:18:10,700 CTO or explaining or putting them in contact with other 367 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,000 techniques or engineering managers may be from the 368 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,000 company, or the department may be from another company's, if 369 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,300 you know them, this will expose them to the Beyond role and they 370 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:22,700 can decide with all the cards in their hand if they want to 371 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:25,500 continue in that path. So this will build the safety 372 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,000 for them, this confidence that this is the path and then, they 373 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,200 were really for shooting with all their strength, all the 374 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,900 energy, but they need to feel safe and confident, right? 375 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:35,600 And if they see that, you are taking care of them in. 376 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,000 In this transition, you understand this transition of 377 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000 really risky and that you need to deliver time and Daisy Doo 378 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:44,500 involving your time to help them succeed. 379 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,600 That is called guided discovery of this leadership role. 380 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:51,200 If we need what for me, empowers them to do their best job and 381 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,100 being confident and really sticking to the role and not 382 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:55,600 looking back to development again. 383 00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:58,300 A lot of times. I'm sure you have plenty of 384 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,300 experience yourself, right? So, when you walk in the 385 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:03,300 startup, sometimes this kind of things tend to be put as a 386 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,500 backlog, for example, you will find inside. 387 00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,800 You will find issues. You will find new things that 388 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,000 somehow gets prioritized by The Business Leaders, or the 389 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,900 stakeholders. So, how would you, actually 390 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,600 consciously make decision that actually, you should either 391 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,300 budget it or prioritize time to actually improve yourself in 392 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:25,000 this leadership and management. So when you are creative of 393 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,300 that, this is the first thing, like living yourselves, living 394 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,400 your life. Hey, I want to go that 395 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,400 direction. Here is the place my manager is 396 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,600 going to support it. You have been clear about that 397 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,300 with a company, then. You can also buy that time 398 00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:40,600 before later. No matter you can build these 399 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,500 skills. Using what I call informal 400 00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:45,400 leadership, which is being exposed to those challenges in 401 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,200 other situations. So, developing those skills 402 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,500 needed by needle, which means that you can develop yourself as 403 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:55,500 a leader, not only in your eight hours, or in this onboarding 404 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:58,400 process in the two hours that your manager is going to assign 405 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,100 you for this kind of task, then 3, then 4, you can have plenty 406 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:05,300 of opportunities out there to demonstrate that leadership both 407 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,400 in the Funny and also out of the company. 408 00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,700 So for me for these informal leadership is like, for example, 409 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,100 what you are doing that is amazing. 410 00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:16,100 Like running a podcast is going to make you think about the 411 00:20:16,108 --> 00:20:18,100 business. So I both got in the business. 412 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,000 It has marketing operations. It has the part of text or 413 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,700 deciding which tools. It has The Branding part. 414 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:27,800 It has PR it has the communication with your 415 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000 customers, but also the communication with your provided 416 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,900 which is the speaker's like me. So all of that is going to 417 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:35,400 expose you to many other different people. 418 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:39,000 Different cultures. This is going to allow you to 419 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,400 think in business. So improving your business 420 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,800 vision and strategic thinking about dealing with the 421 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,100 challenges thinking in advance where I won't be strictly 422 00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,800 journal to be one year from now, what I need to do in order to 423 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,300 reach their I need to do these contacts and it will raise some 424 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:55,100 money. I make to look for a couple of 425 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:57,300 sponsors. This kind of thinking is one to 426 00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:59,100 deliver this. Visitation that for me is 427 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,500 essential for this leader. So having the big picture, not 428 00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,500 on the job. You can run a meet-up so you can 429 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:08,600 Exposed not only to the learnings of running that Vita 430 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,400 but also to the learnings of the topic organizing looking for 431 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,000 ambassadors looking for coordinator. 432 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,400 So coordinating a team of people with different functions. 433 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,600 This is going to allow you to lead the team even when you are 434 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,400 not paid for it, even when that people is just volunteers, but 435 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,900 it's about coordinating with others, especially being 436 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:28,700 removed. So there are plenty of things 437 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,300 that you can do out there contributing with open source, 438 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:34,800 creating your own open source, repository mentoring others. 439 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,000 That's Sure, you have plenty of platforms. 440 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,700 Need is one of them, but you have maintained Cruz. 441 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,000 You have Plato. If a many platforms where you 442 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,200 can train yourself to be a mentor maybe for free, maybe 443 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,800 state. But at the end, what you are 444 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,000 trying with that is learning, so learning by doing for me is the 445 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,600 key way to learn is the most permanent and the most impactful 446 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,700 you can do it. And all these platforms have the 447 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:59,000 practices, you can get exposed to how to be a mentor. 448 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,500 You can also read books that they recommend, but at the end 449 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,800 you are going to learn how to Mentor by Mentor delicate, 450 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,900 others. By the time you need to Mentor 451 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:09,000 the you know, people in your team, we are already prepared, 452 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,700 you know, which kind of questions to do, you know how to 453 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,400 make them be clear about their long-term goals and then you can 454 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,800 align their goals with the company bows. 455 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:21,300 So all these things can happen in informal roads and you can do 456 00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,200 this informal roads out of the company. 457 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,000 As I said, but also into the company to can be a mentor. 458 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000 For other people in other departments, you can be a mentor 459 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000 for your team. You can be exposed to other 460 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,800 initiatives, out of your department, kind of cross 461 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,800 functional image. Tips or improving the culture or 462 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,000 implementing a new tool. In a slot to understand the 463 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Vibes in the remote environment, and you can be there. 464 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,800 You can just need to waste your hand volunteer, and you will be 465 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,600 involved in multidisciplinary teams. 466 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:52,100 So, being exposed to people from HR for marketing is so needed to 467 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:54,600 communicate with listecki. Jargon. 468 00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:58,700 This is exposing yourself. This is challenging you and this 469 00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:02,300 is the way you can enable better communication building empathy 470 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:05,300 with Junior people with people from other department, you will 471 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:08,400 be In by example, is poking yourself in the team and doing 472 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,400 things out of your job, will set a clear unsound example for all 473 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,600 your team members. You will be developing your 474 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,900 business Vision strategy with this kind of side hustles. 475 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,800 And then at the end with mentoring and having more time 476 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,800 organization than planning, you will be delivering those skills 477 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,900 that were me. Our most important to build I 478 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:27,300 think on every all of them can be built out of your job. 479 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:30,200 So by that time, devote to your manager, to say a, I am doing 480 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,700 all of that to demonstrate. Your said that I can be a great 481 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,400 leader. So I have taken the initiative. 482 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,800 You don't need to teach me as much. 483 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,800 I think I am ready now, to leave these kind of things into the 484 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,000 company. So I would love to be exposed to 485 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,900 the opportunity that are happening in the future. 486 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,800 Now, you are standing out of the other competition, you will have 487 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,200 in the company may be fighting for this role or even you can 488 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,600 make your manager. Thinking twice about hiding 489 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,400 someone from the outside to manage or maybe hiding a 490 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,000 developer tools. Aptitude you to replace you. 491 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600 And then promoting yourself into this technique, bro. 492 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,500 So as you say learning by doing I really That because most of 493 00:24:06,508 --> 00:24:09,600 the times when I meant the people as well, I told them that 494 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,100 I could leadership, is not something. 495 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:14,900 That is an official role. Everyone can do leadership is 496 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:17,900 just a matter of putting your hands up and just do the things 497 00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,500 that you enjoy doing and also show some kind of initiatives 498 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,400 and the most important part executing it through until the 499 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,300 end. Because if you are doing 500 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,000 something like this, but then Falls meet way that thing that's 501 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,700 not a good leadership as well. So thanks for sharing that 502 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,500 another thing that you mentioned about. 503 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,400 The proper guidance is actually correct. 504 00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,700 Career path, right? Most of the startups. 505 00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:41,300 I'm sure when they started they don't have this clear guidance 506 00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:43,500 off. Okay, you are a junior developer 507 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:46,400 becoming mid-level senior may be an architect and all that. 508 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:49,800 And you mentioned few resources like levels thought, FYI and 509 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,300 James Daniel book. So what do you think startup 510 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,100 should do in terms of her real guy? 511 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,900 Is it just a matter of building a document guidelines for them 512 00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,600 to follow or is there something more around that? 513 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,000 The first thing for me is being aware that by the time the 514 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,200 company needs to grow. You need to be already there. 515 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,500 So I think in advance preview with the future that's 516 00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:11,700 important. And that's why for me to 517 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,500 mentoring or being exposed to all the startups in the next 518 00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:17,100 stage is important. That's why I was doing this full 519 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,100 path for CO2 unicorn to understand was there. 520 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,200 So knowing for sure that the company wants is growing you 521 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,300 will need another layer that is middle management. 522 00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:28,200 These techniques or engineering managers between the CTO and the 523 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,500 developers is, actively being aware of that and then preparing 524 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,200 the ground for that if you prepare it in advance, it's 525 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,900 okay, but at the end, it will Will be not as useful as doing 526 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,400 it just in time. So that's why for me it's 527 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,400 important to get the resources. So by the time is needed with 528 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,800 this kind of 36 months in advance, when you know, that you 529 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,100 are already raising the funds and you as a CTO are exposed to 530 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:50,000 this long-term strategy for the company. 531 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:51,800 Do you know where are the deadline? 532 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,700 Which is a timeline, right? So you can start working on that 533 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:56,200 and being clear in the sea level. 534 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:59,500 When do you need to start hiding and why it's important to do it 535 00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,500 in advance. When, do you need to start 536 00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:03,400 growing? Some of them and delivering part 537 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,400 of the development time, to being a spy? 538 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,200 Leadership and why this is for me an important part. 539 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,400 So if you have the resources now is the time. 540 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,000 Okay, we unfold is the time to grow aggressively. 541 00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:15,300 We will close the round in three to six months. 542 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,200 What do you need to do as a CTO? Okay. 543 00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:20,400 I know that is now three to six months. 544 00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:24,000 I can go back to the resources, prepare, my own career path. 545 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,400 Adapting those resources to my article Services is forcing it 546 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,800 to the whole team C and with the performance reviews and the 547 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,800 spirit and the attitude of everyone, if you can get some of 548 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,500 them into needy and some of the times that first developers are 549 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:39,900 also willing to take more responsibility because they have 550 00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,700 created a company and they also have kind of a more senior 551 00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:45,900 profile normally in the setup and then they can be ready to 552 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:49,000 lead and if you still need some people do start the hiring 553 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,900 process at that point, so they are ready by the time that the 554 00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:53,600 company is going to move forward. 555 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,400 And this is for me is essentially, so all the 556 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,600 initiatives I have mentioned about, the company involved, in 557 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,100 the people in training. The company posted in this 558 00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,100 informal leadership, for stating this kind of cross-functionally 559 00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:07,900 mission. Fostering free time so they can 560 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:10,300 really deliver this as a hobby as well. 561 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,000 It's key and in this is happening in advance, by the 562 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,400 time the company needs it. Your people is more prepared. 563 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,400 And then the decision will be much more natural. 564 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,600 So speaking about leadership, all leaders method is actually 565 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,300 to build a high performance team. 566 00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:27,100 So when people try five, they can grow as when they do the 567 00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:30,700 work that they're doing and also the skill set to upgrade, people 568 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,400 upskill them, make them motivated and all that. 569 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,300 So what do you think are some skill set? 570 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,800 Sets that are most important to build and nurture these kind of 571 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,100 high performance team. So for me, I high-performing 572 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,600 team is by definition, a team that Oz everything that is 573 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,100 related to them. So you need a lot of autonomy. 574 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,200 You need them to be passionate about what they are doing. 575 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,100 Just a company understanding, the long-term vision of the 576 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:56,400 company. So they buy that vision and is 577 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,700 the only way you can really enable these ownership for them. 578 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,900 So feeling themselves as Founders is the best way to 579 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,800 force these alternate me, but they need to act with Should 580 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000 they cannot feel that they are just being paid every single day 581 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,600 for working in the project or for delivering a new feature in 582 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,800 the market or whatever. They need to feel that the 583 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,800 company is themselves. That's why for me the message 584 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,600 from the sea level about the long term is essential in high 585 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,200 performing teams, and it's all about the ownership and 586 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,400 autonomy. So they need to prepare the 587 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,900 ground where they can make decisions in a safe environment. 588 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,300 They need to feel that they are not going to be punished for 589 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:32,600 making the wrong decision. So they are really encouraged to 590 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,300 make that decision. Whether is a good decision or 591 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:38,500 It's a bad decision where you can really get some learnings as 592 00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:40,000 force it to the rest of the teams. 593 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,300 So do as a team connect this knowledge and better view, are 594 00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,500 improving. The decision-making of the hook 595 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,800 on a show for me, that alternate me on empowerment. 596 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,000 It's essential for that and then communication and processes. 597 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,500 So, in order to have this kind of mini start up into the 598 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:58,100 company, you need to be clear processes and the communication 599 00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,200 has to be really in the center of everything. 600 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,400 So even if you are over, communicating do unemployed more 601 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,800 time to communicate and you should This is essential to 602 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,300 really remove the silos and making sure that team can make 603 00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:12,100 all the features they need for the next spring. 604 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:14,300 For example, without needing all the teams. 605 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,700 So not having these dependencies and then the dependencies making 606 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:21,400 them being delayed and not being totally responsible and 607 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800 autonomous for the result. So that for me, really important 608 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,900 for high performing teams, and then they kind of the topologies 609 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:29,700 organization needs to allow for that. 610 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,400 So you need to put the right people in those teams. 611 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,000 So normally is this cross-functional teams, but you 612 00:29:35,008 --> 00:29:37,800 need to Define how you are going to work with something that is 613 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,800 not very obvious like having back in the front end. 614 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:43,300 But what about Q&A, what about devops? 615 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,000 Every company is a world maybe for you. 616 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,800 Devops is more of a facility. So you just need the service to 617 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,000 be running and maybe you don't have such a demand for new 618 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,600 servers, for new micro services for new infrastructures. 619 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,000 So you can have their Stables covering different teams and 620 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,000 they were like a ticket base or you are certain the assemblies 621 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:04,100 the same for Q&A. You have a lot of manual. 622 00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:06,500 QA, Do you have a Of automated testing. 623 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,100 Do you need Q&A to be into a bit team? 624 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:11,200 Do you need a scrum Master to be into it? 625 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,100 Steve or they are already self-organized and you don't 626 00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:17,700 need this figure of scrum Master to facilitator and block the 627 00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:20,900 road because they are already being able to unblock their own 628 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:23,400 challenges as a team communicating with whoever. 629 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,100 So that for me, the key part of that, you adapt it to your own 630 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:28,700 needs. But deciding on who is inside 631 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:32,600 who is outside and how the teams are going to organize themselves 632 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,900 into a full organization. That is detective, this Squats 633 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:39,000 or gills from the Spotify model or is something else. 634 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,500 This is really important and has to be, I think standardized 635 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,800 documented in some way. But, you know, and everyone 636 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,300 knows why the communication between the different model 637 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,000 organizations are important between these teams across 638 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,100 teams, informal gills, or whatever. 639 00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:57,600 And then having this ownership and autonomy to really be 640 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,800 Problem Solver. So they have a problem. 641 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,100 They solve the problem and only if there is something that they 642 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:07,100 need any manager or the CTO has to be In order to facilitate the 643 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:11,700 solution only then is this thing got a name for help outside that 644 00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:13,600 for me. High-performing team, in terms 645 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,700 of purely, like people way of things is having this autonomy 646 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:21,000 and a clear organization that can be sustainable and they can 647 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,300 operate on their own and on the technical side of things is 648 00:31:24,308 --> 00:31:26,100 about automating as much as possible. 649 00:31:26,100 --> 00:31:29,500 So, every single minute someone is putting into the code. 650 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:32,200 It's for a meaningful reason, is about business. 651 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,300 Logic is about adding value, and it's not about doing repeated. 652 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,300 Of things. So when you say about ownership 653 00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:41,200 and autonomy, I fully agree with that one of the challenge 654 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,100 actually, accept the founder or the co-founding members when you 655 00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:48,100 hire someone from outside, there's a different level of 656 00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,200 degree of ownership because probably it's not their company. 657 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,000 They are just paid for doing the job. 658 00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:56,800 How do you actually cultivate this ownership within a company? 659 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,400 Or do you actually filter those people from the beginning when 660 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,400 you do interview them before they join? 661 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,300 Or how do you actually cultivate this ownership mentality? 662 00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:08,600 Within the team so that everybody is motivated stops. 663 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,400 Owning the problem solving the problem, getting it done and all 664 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,900 that. Yeah. 665 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,600 For my side, the first body that I put it on the interview level 666 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:18,600 as you mentioned. So for me, cultural fit is the 667 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,500 most important part and Hyper for main my set. 668 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,400 So, being a high-performing themselves, understanding what 669 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,000 is for them in a high performing team, which have the benefits 670 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,400 and they willing to be in a high performing team with top talent 671 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400 is essential for me. So if I don't see this fade from 672 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,100 the very beginning and I put these cultural Radar the first 673 00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:38,000 interview even before the coding part. 674 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,900 When I see that they are going to be a great fit or no and then 675 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:44,100 is the first filter for me. So doing the right questions and 676 00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,200 we need for Wishing on the personal side, putting the 677 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,900 version in the center and being curious about other experiences 678 00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:52,000 where they can. So how they give the extra mile 679 00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:54,900 every single time for every single company, how they really 680 00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,400 fight for the company as if it was yours. 681 00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,300 The other most important part for me when they really 682 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:03,000 demonstrate down, when they will demonstrate the exam and also 683 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,300 with these psychos cells, but they have really fun. 684 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,800 And for learning they are taking feedback. 685 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,800 Seriously how they can quickly evolve a solution or change the 686 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,600 mindset according to feedback from the relevant people and not 687 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,900 been really really a store. This for me will important in 688 00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:19,100 this stage. And this is what I try to get 689 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:20,400 from the questions in the interview. 690 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,000 But later on, as I have said, for example, the sea level has 691 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000 the greatest possibility to inspire the people and to define 692 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,500 the culture with every single action. 693 00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:32,000 So they are leading by example. So, for me, the other way, I 694 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,600 choose the tool that the company has are the culture is like Like 695 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,100 the sea level is and forced to lead, by example, are the first 696 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,700 one that needs to live those values of high-performing teams 697 00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:45,500 or autonomy, or giving the ownership and given that the 698 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:47,600 people is expecting from them to make the rules. 699 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:49,900 You need to put them on straight, really every single 700 00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:53,600 day that the rules are made by every single tip. 701 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,000 If they are making a mistake, they are openly talking about 702 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,000 that mistake publicly in the company. 703 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,700 They are talking more about the consequences and what they are 704 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,200 going to do to solve it and moving fast. 705 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400 Then having these kind of post-mortem to get the learnings 706 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,699 rather than just complaining about the problems or whatever, 707 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,900 did will give others the a safe space as well for making those 708 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:16,800 decisions. So, for me, this is the way to 709 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,199 cultivate that ownership and the other part that is also a formal 710 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,600 role is a, why don't you put this ownership as part of the v 711 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,400 in the performance review? Because we are very used to put 712 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,199 clear goals of deliveries of business goals, but worried 713 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,400 about leaving the cultural values living the values of the 714 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,500 company. Single day and the need to bring 715 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,300 real examples to the performance review session. 716 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,900 So you can demonstrate how to run living those values. 717 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:46,300 And then having part of the bonus, part of the Paris related 718 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:49,400 to these values, as well, as you have for the formal business 719 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,199 goals. This is the other way. 720 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,500 I have seen it working really great because they are able to 721 00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:57,500 decide how they are going to leave the value, which are the 722 00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:01,700 things I am going to do to leave the value of ownership or and 723 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,200 results-oriented and then I can decide what I'm going to do. 724 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,100 This court in the next few months to demonstrate my team, 725 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:10,800 to demonstrate my manager, to demonstrate a company that then 726 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,400 we need the values. And I have done beautiful things 727 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,300 for the company that are going to give benefits no matter sort 728 00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:19,200 of not there. But I have done it through this 729 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,400 value. They could be just may be saying 730 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,200 hi. For example honest it like 731 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,300 helping to coordinate the Friday Natchez. 732 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,600 It can be like being the one that is approaching others. 733 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,300 We need the time for breakfast to say to all the Departments, a 734 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:33,000 guys girls. It's time from the break. 735 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,200 We joining me or offering them water. 736 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:38,500 They're so if making them feel good, making them feel at home. 737 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,300 It's something that the CEO is doing every single day as a 738 00:35:41,308 --> 00:35:44,600 Founder, if that person is doing it on behalf of the CEO. 739 00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,100 This is how they're going to really firm a team to the other 740 00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:49,800 layers of the company. And that's why for me having it 741 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,700 into this formal operations, the performance review. 742 00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:55,700 It's important being it like breath every day. 743 00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:58,300 In the culture, is important feature in the right people, 744 00:35:58,300 --> 00:35:59,600 from the very beginning is important. 745 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,700 And this is for me, the three keys, I would say, for ensuring 746 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,200 that the culture of honesty of the culture of high performance. 747 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,800 Is long-lasting is not just ones far depending on the current 748 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,700 people that started the company. But it's also something that is 749 00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:13,700 fun to the new people that you are hiding. 750 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:16,700 Thanks for sharing those tips and framework. 751 00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:20,000 How you would do about it to increase the ownership level 752 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,900 within the company or your team. So for many people who study 753 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:27,200 their career now in the tech leadership position, be it, for 754 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,400 example, techniques or maybe some manager of a small team. 755 00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:32,900 What would you say to those aspiring leaders? 756 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,700 How would you advise them to it? Actually become a better 757 00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:40,200 technical leader so to speak. Yeah, so I think we have gone 758 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,900 through many of the topic. Teddy. 759 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,700 And I have this framework that we call technology development 760 00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:47,200 framework, which is this far from Sam leadership. 761 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:49,300 So self-awareness. I want to do it. 762 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:52,300 I'm preparing my own plan to then informal leadership, which 763 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,300 is real actions. You can do even when you don't 764 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:58,800 hold the form a row and then this will give you the access to 765 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,000 formal leadership through application through moving on to 766 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,600 another company that is giving you the opportunity, but then, 767 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,600 at that point is About running the processes of the formal role 768 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,400 in a better way. And keep is fighting your 769 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,500 people. So this framework for me with 770 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,400 these three steps, have different things that you need 771 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,100 to do for me. The most important of the third 772 00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:17,600 one is. Once you know that this is for 773 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,300 you is about planning properly, so which is your personal sword, 774 00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,200 I mean, which are the skills that you will still need that 775 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,300 you can get from this kind of podcast and also of other 776 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:29,600 resources that you can find in the internet and a little we 777 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,000 have tried to create but hey, what is needed for me for the 778 00:37:33,008 --> 00:37:36,400 next step, take lead? I don't have As much empathy, I 779 00:37:36,408 --> 00:37:38,100 don't have this take overview with the sake of being, a 780 00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:41,400 back-end developer myself, all my life, and then a, which is 781 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,300 the Milestones. I assigned to my cell. 782 00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,800 So in the short-term mid-term long-term, I am reaching that 783 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,100 point. So creating your own plan, as if 784 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,000 it was a company, you have goals to reach and you need to be 785 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,800 really strict with them can not be admissible for you. 786 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,200 If this is your dream, that is a much bigger dreams than your 787 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,200 company's, is your online. This is the best project you can 788 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,200 be working on. You cannot allow yourself. 789 00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:08,200 To be missing the deadlines, just because there is a plan, 790 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,200 this Friday. If you have committed yourself 791 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,400 to have, for example, these forecasts you need to be there 792 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,400 and be consistent. So for me planning properly and 793 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,700 really executing with clear and concrete, milestones for that is 794 00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:23,600 the first step, then the actors on the, how to do it. 795 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,000 I have already gave a lot of advice about different things 796 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,900 that you can do. And on top of that, I would say, 797 00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,300 from the very beginning, build your network, get a mentor or a 798 00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,000 couple of mentors. It's something that everyone has 799 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,100 to Do your personal brand. Is everything you have is going 800 00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:40,200 to make you. Stand out is not only for 801 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,700 marketers, is not only for Founder's. 802 00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:44,000 Everyone has a brand and did you are doing? 803 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,600 Excellent. Need to build your brand around 804 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,400 this technique Journal that now has like this world and which, 805 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,000 but everyone can do it. Do you have mentioned? 806 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,800 You are working for a company? I have been working for a 807 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,900 company while I was building my brand, but it requires time as 808 00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:58,700 well. So building your brand, building 809 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:01,700 your network publishing being consistent with that, adding 10 810 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:05,100 to 15 people, every single week, and connecting with them. 811 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:08,000 Personal level. Every single week is not going 812 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,600 to do anything. If you do it, just one week, but 813 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,900 having a podcast, having a Blog running every single week, 814 00:39:13,900 --> 00:39:17,100 having a newsletter and connecting with 10. 15 people, 815 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:19,800 every single we found connecting on a deep level knowing what 816 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,700 they do, cause you can tell them finding these opportunities to 817 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:26,400 hand all this in the ecosystem, at the end of the year, will be 818 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,700 more than 700 Kentucky. The network. 819 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,100 It will be fifty two chapters of your block of your newsletter of 820 00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,700 your podcast and this will create your brand. 821 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,400 You are working in an open source, repository, the save 822 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,100 being consistent assigned the times, because this is your 823 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,200 future. You are investing that file in 824 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,900 your future. Not only time is money. 825 00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:47,500 You can also be learning reading and according knowledge as fast 826 00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,700 as possible. So you need to dedicate as well. 827 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:52,600 Some time to make sure that every single week you are 828 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,300 learning something new. It can be just watching you do 829 00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:57,200 for episode. It can be listening to this 830 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,900 podcast can be reading books or blogs or it can be paying for a 831 00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:03,500 training like a formal training to accelerate the process were 832 00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:05,100 to be in contact with the right people. 833 00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:07,900 And the right Mentor. But at the end it's all about 834 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:10,000 that. And my final advice. 835 00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:12,800 I already said is learning by doing so practice. 836 00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,600 Don't just get the knowledge in your mind because this is such 837 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,600 karate or many other disciplines. 838 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,300 Like although you cannot let carotid, just reading books. 839 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:23,000 You need to practice your. We need to be exposed. 840 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,000 You need to fail a lot. You need to really suffer these 841 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,000 learning core. You need to fill the point where 842 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,300 you don't know what you don't know, and you feel like a 843 00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:33,900 Superman. And at some point, the moment of 844 00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,800 dilution because You feel like human again and then building 845 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,700 the final part of the journey in a more sustainable way, but you 846 00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:42,800 need to feel that you need to fill the challenges. 847 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,000 You need to face moment. We're dry struggling because 848 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,900 this is the best way to learn. And for me, it's about being 849 00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:51,300 brave being exposed because any kind of fear, you have it in 850 00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:53,500 your head. If you feel that haters are 851 00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:56,700 going to criticize your blog because it's for newbies or is 852 00:40:56,700 --> 00:41:00,600 not technical enough fears of not being able to deal in public 853 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,400 with this kind of communication in a podcast or being exposed in 854 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,900 a meet-up. And then being exposed to You 855 00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:07,700 are not sure you will be able to answer. 856 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,300 At the end is just internal fears. 857 00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:13,800 And when you are there, you really feel 99% of the time. 858 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,500 They will just goes right? Nothing happens. 859 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,500 All the people really appreciate your time. 860 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:22,000 Your effort to set with others, even when it's your experience 861 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,300 and you are not the most senior guy in the room. 862 00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:27,300 For sure, that will be more Junior people in the room and 863 00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:28,700 for them. They will be useful. 864 00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:31,600 So at the end for me, it's about really exposure sale. 865 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,400 They willing to look for the opportunities and then when you 866 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,300 have the opportunity to In front of you, say yes, say yes, face 867 00:41:38,300 --> 00:41:41,500 the unknown because at the end no one is dying for this kind of 868 00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:43,100 things. Even if you need to say no 869 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:45,000 later. It's much better than I'm not 870 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,900 even facing the challenge at the beginning. 871 00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,900 So that's my piece of advice on my set of things that I guess is 872 00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:54,800 what made me what I am and I'm now trying to share with others. 873 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,300 In case is useful for that. So as you mentioned about fear, 874 00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:01,000 I think I agree that a lot of people actually have this fear 875 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,900 internally like afraid to do something. 876 00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:05,100 Starting up with something you mentioned in the beginning. 877 00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:09,000 About the framework about this leadership, but it all starts 878 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,200 from a self leadership and self-awareness. 879 00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:14,100 A lot of people that I talk to especially aspiring leaders as 880 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:16,100 well as they started their career that have this 881 00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:18,800 fundamental question. I really don't know what I want 882 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,300 to achieve next. Some people, even at the 883 00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:24,500 intersection between either individual, contributor or 884 00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:27,000 management track. So, for those people who really 885 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,400 are not comfortable to seeing, or probably not aware of which 886 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,900 part they should take. What would be your advice to 887 00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,100 them for me? Work and the mentor will have 888 00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:39,800 the answers communicating with other people not thinking that 889 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,700 you need to find out. That is your duty is your 890 00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:45,600 responsibility to find out without help a ask for help. 891 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,600 If you are struggling and you still don't know, I feel he'll 892 00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:51,900 try to discover. What is there for you in the 893 00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:55,000 next step in both career paths. I did you need to make a 894 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,600 decision. The good thing is that you can 895 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,000 always go back. Everything that you do is going 896 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,400 to be a step forward. You don't need to regret because 897 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,100 everything you do in that path, even if he's wrong. 898 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,800 You will learn a lot of skills. You will build empathy with 899 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,100 people that is in that role and maybe in is that not for you, is 900 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:14,300 people that is going to be working for you as an individual 901 00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:16,100 contributor. So you are able to build the 902 00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:19,600 empathy and you are going to understand how they do their 903 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,500 work. And you are going to facilitate 904 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,200 this working in the team with the team lead and you as an 905 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,600 individual contributor, right? Toward the end for me. 906 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,000 It's all about the fiercest that impostor syndrome. 907 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,600 We always have in Tech. We always suffer it. 908 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,500 And at the end is your imagination, right? 909 00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:35,000 That wants to be saved your butt. 910 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,500 She has to be saved because there is a threads that is man 911 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,500 has outside. But we are not living in caves 912 00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,300 anymore. The worst thing is going to 913 00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,900 happen for you. What is that as yourself? 914 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,800 That's for me a clinical question that we moves a lot of 915 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,900 fears in just one point. Like what's the worst thing can 916 00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,500 happen? If I go for the individual 917 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:55,200 contributor path for the next six months to try out? 918 00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:57,700 I have lost six months of my career. 919 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,800 That means that as a fashion model. 920 00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:02,800 I will not be able to go back to that career. 921 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,000 Six months later. This is not like that. 922 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,100 You can always go back or just evolve and then go for that 923 00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:12,400 career later. If individual contributor is not 924 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,400 for you anymore. You have been tired of that at 925 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,700 some point or you want to have more entropy in your life. 926 00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:20,900 And you want to pursue something, totally new. 927 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,100 Whatever is the reason at the end. 928 00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:26,300 There is no step back. There is not such a thing, like, 929 00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:29,100 regretting about the steps you are doing, because for every 930 00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:31,800 single step, you will have opportunities to learn 931 00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:34,000 opportunities, to grow, people, to know. 932 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:36,900 And then with that, That you will be in a much better 933 00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:39,500 position to take the other career whenever it is a time. 934 00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:42,800 So for me, it's all about, just going forwards and surrounded by 935 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,000 the right, people to have the good information firsthand. 936 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,300 I like that, when you say just ask for help talking with people 937 00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:50,800 with your network, with your Mentor. 938 00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:54,200 Sometimes also people tend to try to find within themselves 939 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,600 either reading book or just listening to podcast something 940 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,700 like this but actually is the activity of interacting with 941 00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:03,100 people that sometimes pop these new ideas in your perspectives. 942 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,000 So thanks for sharing that. So I Always been a great 943 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,800 pleasure talking with you, but this technical leadership. 944 00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:10,700 We reached the end of our conversation. 945 00:45:10,700 --> 00:45:13,400 But before I let you go, I have normally one question that I 946 00:45:13,408 --> 00:45:15,900 would ask for all my guests, which is for you to share your 947 00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:17,500 tree technical leadership. Wisdom. 948 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,900 Would you be able to share with us your wisdom? 949 00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:23,300 So the most of the company and this is the first thing we 950 00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:25,600 delivered in the market, even before having a product, we were 951 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,100 delivering our values in a video that is now on YouTube audience. 952 00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:32,000 Everything is about people, the company sent trying to build an 953 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,600 intern to encoding all this to build through my learning my 954 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,300 experience. He's they kind of sandwiches 955 00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,900 with delivering the market. It's about putting the people 956 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,800 first. So jewison, either you're always 957 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,400 possibility and why you can be called as a leader is because 958 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,600 others that are people who attains not so work, is people 959 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,800 decides to follow you. So you need to put that people 960 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,200 face and you need to do everything that it takes to make 961 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,400 that people succeed. And only when they succeed, they 962 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,800 will be able during the Journey of succeed in themselves, 963 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,300 delivering value for your company for your team, or for 964 00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:05,600 yourself as a leader. And then you would Fascinated 965 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,400 because you had an impact, but the first thing you were doing 966 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,500 is trying to make them succeed. Whatever is the way for them to 967 00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:15,600 succeed that would be for me, the best, the First with more 968 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,200 people, more companies being people first and orientating the 969 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,200 leadership to working for people for the internal people. 970 00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:25,000 The second one would be more impactful companies. 971 00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:27,700 I mean, we have no plan to be and we are reaching a Tipping 972 00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:31,200 Point, and if we don't build companies that are related to 973 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,500 sustainability and being in this planet, I mean thinking that we 974 00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:37,900 can really Establish a colony on Mars is a jewel to pee yet. 975 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,200 And if you are betting all your money on just that idea and keep 976 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,900 wasting the grading, the planet. We are not going to be there, 977 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,200 definitely. And even if we can get there 978 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,500 will not be all of us. So in order to prevent bigger 979 00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:53,700 things, I think every one of us can do their own thing for those 980 00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:56,800 that has a different mindset or for those that are deciding 981 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,300 where to work for me, the most impactful company. 982 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:04,300 You can work or the money for food company, the better because 983 00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:07,900 you can still do You love but you will be 1 and T in our 984 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,900 survival as a species. So that's the second one. 985 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,000 The last one is removing the barriers between taken business. 986 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,400 This is one of the goals of meteorite, on one side teaching 987 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,300 leadership in Tech, and giving this kind of business Vision to 988 00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:23,300 take is on Tech. Needles is going to help a lot 989 00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:25,900 in running companies. Successful startup successfully 990 00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:28,500 scale apps in terms of communication, empathy and 991 00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:31,600 aligned Vision, whatever. But on the other side, we can 992 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,900 also remove the body and intake for business people because they 993 00:47:34,900 --> 00:47:37,700 are Afraid of tech. They think that take is a huge 994 00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:40,800 black box and the techies are something that has been 995 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,200 stereotyped for years. I think we all need to also do 996 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,300 an effort to remove the technical jargon and being able 997 00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:50,500 to expose the basics in Tech in our companies. 998 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,700 So that when it is finally removed, and then business 999 00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:57,800 fields and power to even play with technical tools, they can 1000 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,500 have a nice unproductive conversation with it because 1001 00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:03,100 they have ability empathy to know what they do, how they do 1002 00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:04,200 it through. Agile, scrum. 1003 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,500 Kanban, whatever. Which of the tools that use 1004 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:09,900 which are the fundamentals, the basics of software development, 1005 00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:13,300 so they can have this productive conversation and they also feel 1006 00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:15,700 more confident. That they know what the business 1007 00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:17,800 is about. So building this cross 1008 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,800 Communication business, delivering lot of the vision 1009 00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,200 mode of the non 10 goals in Ted, and take, delivering some of the 1010 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,500 basics of how and what they do, and why they do it to business 1011 00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:32,000 will be just one team. Adam easy one team, just one 1012 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,100 family with a single align goal or this is the effective way of 1013 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:39,400 operating a business, not having two teams trying to do the nest 1014 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,700 for the others, because they are just interrupting their 1015 00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:42,900 workflow. At the end. 1016 00:48:42,900 --> 00:48:46,300 They are working a line to have a single removing this body at, 1017 00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:48,500 for me. It's critical for the success of 1018 00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:50,500 more startups and scalars in the market. 1019 00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:53,400 And then having this suburb ecosystem really tripping 1020 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,200 places. Where is still not mature like 1021 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,500 Europe for example, so that's for me, the three reasons they 1022 00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:01,300 were really love Tech and business between them more 1023 00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:02,800 impactful, companies and more people. 1024 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,500 First companies. Thanks for sharing that it's 1025 00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,800 really beautiful. When you care about the impact 1026 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,900 of your company at especially to the sustainability of the place 1027 00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:13,200 where we lived. So thanks Alvaro for sharing 1028 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,200 that. So for people who want to 1029 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,600 connect with you, or maybe find out more about leader dotco. 1030 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,000 Where can they find you online? I'm very active in Nicorette so 1031 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,000 you can look for Alberto Moya and that's it. 1032 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,800 I'll borrow I can either .ko is my professional email. 1033 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,600 I will be there as well. And for everyone, that is as 1034 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,500 fighting to get a former rolled in Tech leadership. 1035 00:49:32,500 --> 00:49:35,300 We have created our own. Unity uneasiness lock. 1036 00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:38,300 So you can go to me.com slash Community as well and you can 1037 00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:41,400 apply, we will be really happy to have more people from around 1038 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,900 the world setting fpses and at the ending together how to 1039 00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:48,500 navigate these complex role where likes penis and see some 1040 00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,600 CTO from all around the world. And big well-known companies are 1041 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,000 mixing with us finding needed. There may be steamed developers, 1042 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,300 but we are sitting this experiences and they are getting 1043 00:49:57,300 --> 00:49:59,900 exposed to this kind of conversation where they can 1044 00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:02,300 learn every day. What I have said that it's 1045 00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:03,800 important for me to build these walls. 1046 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,600 On the formal side. We are trying to facilitate 1047 00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:09,100 needed as a stage for them to really interact there. 1048 00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:11,000 So I will be there in all those channels. 1049 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,400 Thanks for also, doing these amazing things, growing up 1050 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,800 leadership within the industry within the community. 1051 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,200 So, I think it's really beautiful things. 1052 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,000 So, thanks a lot for your time. Looking forward to seeing you 1053 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,400 again next time. Thank you very much Henry for 1054 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,800 these opportunities have been an amazing conversation. 1055 00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:28,600 Thank you so much for conducting it in this natural and organic 1056 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,000 way. Thank you very much pleasure. 1057 00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:35,300 Thank you for listening. Into this episode and for 1058 00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:38,900 staying right till the end. If you highly enjoyed, please 1059 00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:41,700 share it with your friends and colleagues who you think would 1060 00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:44,500 also benefit from listening to this episode. 1061 00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,600 And if you're new to the podcast, make sure to subscribe 1062 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,500 and leave me your valuable review and feedback. 1063 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,300 It really, really helps me a lot in order to grow these podcasts 1064 00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:56,900 better. You can also find the full show 1065 00:50:56,900 --> 00:51:00,400 notes of this conversation on the episode page at technology 1066 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,800 another death website, including the full transcript. 1067 00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:07,500 Interesting quotes and links to the resources and mentions from 1068 00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:10,300 the conversation. And lastly make sure to 1069 00:51:10,300 --> 00:51:13,100 subscribe to the shows mailing list on technology, another 1070 00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:16,200 death to get notified for any future episodes. 1071 00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,300 Stay tuned for the next technique Journal episode. 1072 00:51:19,300 --> 00:51:21,000 And until then. Goodbye.