1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,300 Rather than being passive about it. 2 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:04,800 Why do I take a proactive approach and try and find people 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,900 who are like-minded? Who share the same ideals and 4 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:10,900 goes and them come together and just share. 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,200 Hey, everyone. My name is Henry Surya, we 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:24,100 Rollin And you are listening to the tech lead journal the show 7 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:26,800 where I'll be bringing you the greatest technical leaders 8 00:00:26,900 --> 00:00:30,300 practitioners and thought leaders in the industry to 9 00:00:30,308 --> 00:00:34,600 discuss about their Journey ideas and practices that we all 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,200 can learn and apply to build a highly performing technical team 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,400 and to make an impact in your personal work. 12 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:50,700 So let's dive into our Journal. Hey everyone, welcome to another 13 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:54,500 episode of the tackling journal with Neo host Henry Surya Robin 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,300 following the first episode which was released last week. 15 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:01,700 I receive a lot of words of encouragement comments and 16 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:05,900 feedback from many of you my listeners, both personally and 17 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:08,400 also on social media, which I have to say. 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,500 I am extremely humbled by your kind words and support. 19 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:14,800 I will do my best to continuously bring high quality. 20 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:18,700 Contents and conversations with great thought leaders for this 21 00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:22,400 podcast, for those of you new listeners, welcome. 22 00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:25,600 And I hope you enjoy the show, contents And subscribe to the 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,000 podcast to get updates when I release new episodes. 24 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:33,900 So in this episode, I have the pleasure to have a conversation 25 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:37,800 with a guess who I admire a lot for all his contributions to the 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,500 Singapore Tech and startup communities and also for 27 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:44,700 mentoring and coaching Junior developers his name. 28 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,200 Is Michael Chang in the past before covid when meetups used 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,700 to be happening a lot? I used to see Michael 30 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:55,000 frequently, sitting at the back of the Meetup doing recording 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,900 with all his awesome gears. And initially. 32 00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:01,100 I thought he was just a guy hired by the Meetup organizers 33 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:04,800 to do the recording little that. I know that Michael is doing it 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,199 all for the community. And for free, he uploads all 35 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:12,500 those recordings to a YouTube channel and make them organized 36 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:17,800 on a portal called Engineers do. G which at this moment has more 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,500 than 3,700 videos uploaded, which is pretty awesome. 38 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:26,300 Michael also runs the Singapore, PHP, User Group co-founded, the 39 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:32,300 iOS deaf Scouts and is also the organizer of PHP, conf Asia, his 40 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:34,900 latest passion project, which is Junior death. 41 00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:39,100 As G is another community group specifically, created for junior 42 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:43,000 developers in Singapore in which I personally have the 43 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,400 opportunity to participate by By joining the mentoring program, 44 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,600 as one of the selected mentors and I must say that it is a 45 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,600 personally, rewarding experience for me. 46 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,200 And I strongly believe that such initiative will be tremendously 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,200 beneficial in rapidly, building, Singapore, Tech communities. 48 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,700 And without further Ado, please enjoy this episode with Michael 49 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:07,500 Chang. Hello, Michael. 50 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:10,100 Are you hungry? First of all, I would like to 51 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:14,200 acknowledge your contributions, your hard work in the tech and 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,000 startup. The in Singapore. 53 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:20,300 And also I think it brings a lot of impact and benefits for a lot 54 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:22,800 of people. And I would like to appreciate 55 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,300 for that. Thanks. 56 00:03:24,300 --> 00:03:26,500 Thanks. We should appreciate you as 57 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:28,400 well. Because when I first started the 58 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:32,000 jeweled FSG mentoring program, I mean you were one of the first 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,900 to also come forward, which I think is in a blessing to us as 60 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:37,100 well. Yeah, no worries. 61 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:40,300 I'm also happy to do mentoring. So I hope it helps. 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,100 So, first of all, I would like to ask a question about your T 63 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:47,400 involvement. So, actually, what made you 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,300 start doing these kind of activities in the beginning? 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,500 Was it something that you found a challenge that you don't know 66 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:55,500 how to solve? And that's why you started. 67 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,700 So the First Community ever started was the Singapore. 68 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:01,900 PHP User Group. This was in 2008. 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,700 I think so, there was quite a while ago. 70 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,200 I kind of started it because I was feeling lonely in my journey 71 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,900 as a software engineer. The time I was running my own 72 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:13,900 startup. I was doing programming 73 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:16,500 building. What people I've just felt 74 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:18,600 lonely because I was out, doing doing all alone. 75 00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:21,899 I don't really have many years in my company because I was a 76 00:04:21,907 --> 00:04:23,100 gamer. I was running my own business, 77 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:25,600 right? So I was I'm the boss and 78 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,300 everywhere higher is like, you know, Junior people. 79 00:04:28,700 --> 00:04:32,600 But yeah, I wanted a community where I can turn to for help and 80 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,700 for like support. I think also came out of my 81 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:38,900 previous experience as a Evangelical Christian. 82 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,700 So as I when Jericho Christian, I was in church where they 83 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,800 practice subgroups. So So cell group. 84 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,900 I found was quite informative for me as in help me to 85 00:04:48,907 --> 00:04:52,000 strengthen my faith and also is good to have people who are 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,300 like-minded around. You two, can't give you support 87 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:57,000 and give you words of encouragement and even got you a 88 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,100 long, right? I kind of like, missed that in 89 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:01,600 the secular world, in the sense that I don't really have that 90 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,600 mentorship and I felt that since I have facing this problem. 91 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,300 I'm sure there'll be other people who are facing this 92 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,200 problem as well. So I thought rather than being 93 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,100 passive about it. What do I take a proactive 94 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:13,400 approach and try and find people who are like-minded? 95 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:17,000 Who share the same? Ideals and goes and them come 96 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,500 together and just share. So that's the sharing part of 97 00:05:20,508 --> 00:05:22,000 it. The other part of it is the open 98 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,900 source movement, the idea that the more you share, the more you 99 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:27,700 give, the more you get back, right? 100 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,200 So the hold open source, itõs, really car, drove me to that 101 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,700 understanding that sharing provides more benefit for the 102 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:37,400 whole. So these two come together, like 103 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,200 need for support group and all that, and the other need for 104 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,700 sharing knowledge. Because I know I also learned a 105 00:05:43,707 --> 00:05:46,200 lot in my life. I also want to share back to the 106 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,500 community. So that's how I started. 107 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:50,800 The PHP is a group and I also much later on the Judah, death 108 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,700 and iOS, they have Scout. Right? 109 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:54,300 Right. So I guess, also, during that 110 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:59,400 time, there is probably no other similar Community groups or 111 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,800 initiatives in singers. I guess they were we will all 112 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,300 like student groups. There were also a few, like, 113 00:06:05,300 --> 00:06:08,800 technical, technical user groups, but you're not really in 114 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,100 the text tag that I was in, but the time there was already a 115 00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:14,600 ruby meet up. There was a Java User Group. 116 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:19,500 Yeah, that was about it. I see I think before I started 117 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:21,800 by own group. She did some research and I was 118 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,400 just trying to find whether they were similar groups already 119 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,000 formed out there. And so there were two, they were 120 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,800 registered but then they were like defunct, not active. 121 00:06:30,100 --> 00:06:32,200 So because of that. Okay, since the last two group 122 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,500 has been redacted for a while. So why not? 123 00:06:34,500 --> 00:06:36,700 I just start a new one when you started. 124 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:39,500 Did you already know what you wanted to do? 125 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:42,100 How do you structure this user group? 126 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,500 How do you make your contribution? 127 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:49,500 Well, one thing I knew I needed to have sharing people who got 128 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:52,600 Google share ideas. I just use meetup.com., This is 129 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,700 in 2008. I think it was still very new 130 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:56,400 turns out. They were not my people using 131 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,900 it. Organize a meet up first PHP is 132 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:03,800 a good Meetup was that blue works at key for five of us are 133 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,900 sitting there having drinks. And there wasn't much technology 134 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:10,000 sharing that it was more like networking kind of thing. 135 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:13,200 So there was a first video blog. I felt there was a problem will 136 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,600 reach how you reach people, right? 137 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,000 So if you things, I knew I wanted to have a need to have 138 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,500 speakers. I also need a value. 139 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:21,400 And also in my previous Life, as a grassroot leader. 140 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:24,700 I also know that successful Grassroots event must have two 141 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:28,300 tanks. They are food, Lucky Draw 142 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:29,800 prices. Wow. 143 00:07:29,900 --> 00:07:33,600 Okay, if I have this too, I probably can get people. 144 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,000 So, like, food will get you at least to the Midway point, and 145 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,600 let me draw bars will keep you all the way to the end, right? 146 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,400 Because of that my past life and experience in doing that. 147 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,300 I thought, okay, maybe I could do something similar. 148 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:47,300 So I wanted my meetups to have good talks. 149 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,500 I wanted to have food and then I wanted to have a lucky draw 150 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,200 prizes. So I kind of like started 151 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,300 looking around for sponsors sponsors. 152 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:56,800 Not just for the Renewables. Are the lucky draw prizes. 153 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,900 Like so I got moved to do date books are and some of that, so 154 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:01,600 it was quite interesting. Right? 155 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,600 So what brought to you then to Engineers RSG, is it something 156 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,200 that again, like, you see a need from running this user group and 157 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,000 then you spot an idea or maybe people need to consume video. 158 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,800 Yeah. For and, you know, Is she was 159 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,000 more of a frustration? I attended a panel discussion 160 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:23,400 supposedly on the panelists. They were like industry leaders 161 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,800 in the tech industry. Right? 162 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,900 So one of the panelists was like be moaning and groaning about. 163 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:30,800 Oh, yeah. I can't find Engineers. 164 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,100 I can't hire Engineers. Where the engineers right? 165 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:38,100 So for me, I was a bit curious. I mean, I am surrounded by good 166 00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:40,700 Engineers. People who I know from meetup 167 00:08:40,700 --> 00:08:42,200 groups. My personal friends. 168 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:43,900 I know. I'm surrounded by good engineers 169 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:45,900 in Singapore. I mean, there's no shortage of 170 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,200 Engineers. So why is this person saying 171 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:49,800 that? There's not enough engineers in 172 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,300 Singapore? So I got me thinking about, what 173 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,000 is there a difference in perception, right. 174 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,700 My perception. Is that is abundance. 175 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,200 There are people around the person's perception was that 176 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,900 there were not enough. So I thought maybe the problem 177 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:04,500 is a marketing problem. So we don't tell people enough 178 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:06,400 about our meetups. You don't tell people enough 179 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 about what we do and the things that we're doing in the 180 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,000 community, right? So talking maybe one good way to 181 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,500 improve the marketing is to Try and find a way to record the 182 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:19,600 meetups, because the time in church, our surf sound tech, and 183 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,200 you how to operate a soundboard and do audio recording video 184 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,300 recording. I thought, maybe I should bring 185 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,700 all this interest together. I felt if I can record the 186 00:09:27,708 --> 00:09:30,600 Meetup, I can put them online and people can find them. 187 00:09:30,700 --> 00:09:33,300 Once we can find them. They can probably linked back to 188 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:35,000 the Meetup group. And then from there, they can 189 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,600 discover the different meetup groups and they can then, you 190 00:09:37,608 --> 00:09:41,000 know, either attend the future meetups or even learn from the 191 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,800 videos that are being published. They will all good content being 192 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,700 shared in the Different Meetup Group sir. 193 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:51,200 Yeah, so that was the Genesis of the engineers OSG. 194 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:53,500 Yeah, just for our listeners here. 195 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:57,600 As of today. I can see there are, like, 3759 196 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,700 videos online. So, that's really a lot. 197 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,200 I think it started from, like, 2013 or something. 198 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,700 Yeah, around the, right. So, this is one question that I 199 00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:10,300 always have in mind. When I see you like all over the 200 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:12,900 places and meet ups, you know, recording obviously. 201 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:16,600 Now you got some help from few. Volunteers as well, but how do 202 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,900 you prioritize your time? Well, first of all, I do have 203 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:22,900 any job. Yeah, I'm people see me in 204 00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:24,700 community. Meetups and I like the, you ask 205 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:25,600 me? So what do you do? 206 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:30,500 I'm like, yeah, I don't we tell you, I do but I do have a day 207 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:33,000 job. So my day job, testicle all my 208 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,000 time because I have to be at work by nine ish. 209 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:39,500 And and that wrong 6:00. I think I'm very thankful in my 210 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:41,800 last few jobs. It's still quite strict about 211 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,900 not doing overtime. So in a way that get their Frees 212 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:48,300 up my time in the evenings to actually organize, meetups go 213 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:50,000 for meetups and to attend meetups. 214 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,000 So I'm fortunate to have Employers in the past at least 215 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,200 Employers in my last at least three jobs who give me the 216 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,500 freedom to continue doing things for the community. 217 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,300 So in terms of prioritizing my time, I guess, my can schedule 218 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:05,800 my time around the Meetup events. 219 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,300 So in a way, kind of like, my evenings are kind of book that 220 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:11,900 bio this video or that meet up in the past. 221 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:16,700 I think, before covid-19 we have like About two to three meetups 222 00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:19,600 of a week. And as you notice, I'm fortunate 223 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,400 enough to have volunteers to help me but in the past, I would 224 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,300 like at 6:00 sharp. I'll just leave work with my 225 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,800 recording gear, Rush down to the Meetup Group, me that value and 226 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,900 sell my gear, you know, and kind of Stew recording. 227 00:11:31,900 --> 00:11:35,900 So yeah, so they can be tiring. Also, especially after you 228 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:39,700 record, you still have to do the editing uploading and putting it 229 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:42,100 on the website. I think that's a lot of work as 230 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:42,700 well. Right? 231 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:44,300 Yeah. Used to be, I think. 232 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,900 Used to be that it, at least the early days. 233 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:49,400 I will actually stay up till like, 1:00 2:00 in the morning. 234 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,400 Just editing the videos about. Of course, we have technology. 235 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,100 We have actually improve our workflow. 236 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:58,500 So I brought up my, a simple like, upload site for my 237 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:01,700 volunteers and for myself. So, as long as the video is 238 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:04,200 ready, and it's uploaded, this upload site and it will be 239 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,200 published on to the engine especially website. 240 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,200 I think we're in an hour. Wow, that's that's pretty cool. 241 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,400 Yeah. I mean, there's a reason why we 242 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,700 love around so much gear because we want to Capture are eating 243 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:19,700 properly because of his laptop and we use the software for OBS, 244 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000 which that's the recording and any records, everything from 245 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,800 screen to video the audio into one file. 246 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:29,200 So it makes it a lot easier for my volunteers that we only do so 247 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,300 much post-production. Yeah. 248 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:35,600 I've seen once a volunteer having to set up all the gears. 249 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,300 It looks pretty complicated for me. 250 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,900 There are a lot of moving Parts, but it's pretty nice setup, you 251 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:43,200 know, like the quality. I think it's also one thing that 252 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,900 you want to ensure. For the people so that they can 253 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:49,100 listen to the speakers and be able to see the screen at the 254 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,000 same time, which is pretty nice. Yeah, either way you can 255 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,100 consider as a occupational hazard because it is, as I said, 256 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:57,900 in the past, I was like a sound engineer. 257 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:01,300 So, I know, the importance are already calling good audio. 258 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,700 How important good audio is for your attention span. 259 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,800 When you're watching a video, if you hear Bad audio, you just 260 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,500 switch off quite easily. So you have good audio capture 261 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,100 and good quality screen recording. 262 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,800 It makes a more compelling. And I think it shows in the 263 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,800 video that we recorded. Yeah, I guess this is also a 264 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,900 lesson for all the listeners here. 265 00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:25,000 Is that sometimes we have these skills that we don't realize, 266 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,800 it's actually pretty useful. Like for example, in your case. 267 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,800 You're pretty good in doing somebody editing and how to 268 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,000 record a good quality sound and then after that, you mix that 269 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000 with engineers at SG, actually it benefits a lot of people. 270 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,300 So I think this is also a good example of how ideas can be born 271 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:44,400 out of the scale that you normally don't. 272 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,600 Lies, yeah, precisely. So very curious about these 273 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,900 engineer SG, right? So what kind of impact maybe you 274 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,300 can throw some highlights that you realized? 275 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:57,000 You have made out of this Engineers, SG. 276 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,600 Maybe there are people telling you or maybe you just see 277 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,900 something that you think Engineers is to contribute a 278 00:14:01,908 --> 00:14:03,600 lot. There was once when I was still 279 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,700 working in a Consulting agency was caught in your Innovation. 280 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,400 And so in the consultancy, we built apps and build stuff for 281 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,300 clients and there was one time I was In office during lunch time. 282 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,900 And I heard behind me. There was a video playing. 283 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,400 It was a familiar voice on the video. 284 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,400 But since I was one of our colleagues who presented 285 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,400 something at pycon already, 2013 2014, so you keep presented at 286 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,000 pycon about the topic of high test, which is a testing 287 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,600 framework for Python. And my colleague was actually 288 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,600 watching the video and I look at it. 289 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,900 Wow, that's pretty cool. The fact that the video was only 290 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,400 like maybe a few days old, it was done over the weekend. 291 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,400 And it was recorded. The converse is over the 292 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,000 weekend. We recorded it and on Monday or 293 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,800 Tuesday. He was like watching the video 294 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,800 during lunch time. It's like, wow, I mean for me, I 295 00:14:53,808 --> 00:14:56,700 felt like they had served a purpose that originally created 296 00:14:56,700 --> 00:15:01,200 this movement Fallout, which was to provide a resource for people 297 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,200 around me. The other impact, we have will 298 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,400 be local conference seen in the past. 299 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,100 A lot of the singapore-based conferences. 300 00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:11,300 When you needed to record video for their conference, usually 301 00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,200 takes about half a year. For the video will be published 302 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,100 like this. Get big boys like on freaks. 303 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,400 They're basically fly people in the Singapore equipment and then 304 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:23,900 in another case of another provider you have to actually 305 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:28,900 record into VHS and then send the VHS data tapes and then 306 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:31,400 suddenly the whole tape do us for them to do the 307 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,900 post-production and everything. So I feel that there's a lot of 308 00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:39,300 cost involved in sort of time, lag between your content, bring 309 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:42,100 recording singapore-based conference and then we publish. 310 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,000 So I decided we should just make make this our recording 311 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,400 capabilities available to conference organizers as well. 312 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,900 So here total like things like go for con will become friends 313 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,100 PHP conference, which I personally run and so many other 314 00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:58,600 conferences that we cover, right? 315 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,500 So it's like for us to say is a community service because as 316 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:05,700 engineer says she is a not-for-profit, our initiative 317 00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:07,700 as we don't make money out of it. 318 00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:11,800 We own a little bit just to cover our Hardware costs and 319 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,500 repair costs and hosting fee for our website. 320 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,700 We come conferences. It really helps us in expanding 321 00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:21,700 our capability. So we can now record more tracks 322 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,900 a day or so, last count. We will got about six or seven 323 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,800 sets of recording gear, which you can deploy any moment. 324 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,300 I think our impact is really, really about helping the local 325 00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,900 Tech scene and the local conference organizers make their 326 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:38,700 videos, a lot more accessible and make it more affordable for 327 00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:39,800 them. Because I know a lot of the 328 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,000 local conference organizers are also not making money out. 329 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,400 There are conferences right for I guess it was a way to 330 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,700 contribute back to the community and to help this organizers who 331 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:53,400 are a lot of are my personal friends, right? 332 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,400 Yeah. So what reason, why we're 333 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,600 helping them and for them to make their content accessible to 334 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:00,800 everyone around us. Yeah, call. 335 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,500 So what is your next plan for engineers T. 336 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,200 I know that it's non profit Community initiative, right? 337 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,300 But is there any like roadmap? How do you want to bring 338 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:12,900 Engineers as G going forward? I'm not too sure because I right 339 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,900 now because of covid-19 is The recording is a bit of a good 340 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:18,900 thing. Here's a lot more people know 341 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,800 how to actually do video recording and recording of like 342 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,200 talks and all that stuff, which is great. 343 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,200 That means it has almost made Angeles as she a bit redundant 344 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:37,800 publish videos and without videos and all that is is now 345 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,000 everyone's hands. You use zoom you use a stream 346 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,500 yard, you use somewhere. There's so many tools available 347 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,600 out there. It makes it it so easy to do 348 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,000 that. So you don't really heavy and 349 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,900 expensive equipment that we do, we carry around with us 350 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:52,800 everywhere. So he already is your laptop. 351 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,100 Good speaker or good microphone. And then that's it. 352 00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:57,000 That's all you need. Right? 353 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,300 So, I think it's a good thing. Even right now during this 354 00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,400 covid-19 period and Genesis 3, we have also decided to just 355 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,300 help the community as well as providing like, free hosting. 356 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:10,800 So we're hosting the zoom calls for a lot of the community 357 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,100 organizers because I think there's a cost involved in 358 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:16,100 getting a zoom account and Don't think everyone wants to pay for 359 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:18,100 that monthly costs. Yep, to way. 360 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:20,800 I'm kind of like helping them by, you know, hosting the 361 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,000 alcohols and then helping to upload the videos that from 362 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,100 their me table. Maybe also like will be also a 363 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:30,000 nice place to aggregate all these speedups happening, right? 364 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,700 Because I think one challenge just like previously we have all 365 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,400 these meetups. But again, if it's not 366 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,600 Consolidated, we can probably also make sense. 367 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,100 What is happening around the community? 368 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,400 Who are the speakers there? And how do we engage with the? 369 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,400 Yeah attack scene, right? But it's true. 370 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,900 So I guess in a way I want to try and make the content to be 371 00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:52,000 more discoverable. I think was what we did last 372 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,400 year. The every year before that 373 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,100 engine is, as she kind of much or acquired, we built that SG. 374 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:00,400 They also aggregator of sorts of local Tech events. 375 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,500 So we basically got their content for the events calendar. 376 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,500 And we are very much tied into our engineer says she events 377 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,100 calendar. So, in a way, I want to try and 378 00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:12,100 find a way to make the content be more discoverable events more 379 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,800 discoverable and also make it easier for People to link up 380 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,800 with the speaker, find out more about the speaker and the 381 00:19:18,808 --> 00:19:21,300 community that the speaker is speaking in. 382 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,100 So my time is also quite proud quite limited, but some of our 383 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:29,400 generation website, I chair like V2 version, too kind of thing 384 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,900 going on there. Some community volunteers wanted 385 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,600 to push for a view JS of thing. And then the same time, I was 386 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,400 like building some micro Services as a way of learning 387 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,800 how to use. Microservices now we're using 388 00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:44,300 engine especially as a platform for me, learn these things. 389 00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:47,300 So it's like, yeah, figuring out how to improve the service. 390 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,700 I mean, I think the goal every day is to make engineer says, 391 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,600 she'll be like more of a self-help, kind of a portal 392 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,800 where volunteers and Community organizers, and speakers can 393 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,200 just go into the portal and car like self-help. 394 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,000 Think up. There are talks to their own 395 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,700 profile. Even for Community organizers, 396 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:07,900 to even organize and publish their events on the easily. 397 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,100 So that's something to go. So I'm aiming for that and also 398 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,700 do host viewership of the videos on engineer. 399 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:15,200 So let's G. Right. 400 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:18,800 So again out of curiosity, after you are doing this community 401 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,900 contributions over a number of years. 402 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:24,600 Now how has that helped you professionally or maybe in terms 403 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,000 of career or maybe new job opportunity or maybe you just 404 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,400 become more popular? That people know you when they 405 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,800 see you, I guess being out there doing all these things. 406 00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,700 It just creates a profile that you're a bit more recognizable, 407 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:40,900 which to me. Honestly, I'm not very 408 00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:42,700 comfortable with that celebrity status. 409 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,700 I mean, I'm also fairly private person in a way, but then again 410 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,600 I post something on my Facebook so I can. 411 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:55,800 So I guess in you can say because of my community 412 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,100 involvement. I was able to land a job with SP 413 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:02,700 digital which is a digital transformation division of SV 414 00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:04,500 group. He was I always bring together 415 00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,200 all the people that he knows and turns out, I'm of those guys 416 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,500 that he wanted on his team line and it was pretty nice there for 417 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:14,400 me to kind of work in the company where I find a lot. 418 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,800 My community friends, who will run meet ups people who run the 419 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,200 conference's. We know each other like as 420 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,000 friends ask organizers as whatever but first time working 421 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,700 with them, professionally is quite interesting experience. 422 00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:33,900 So for me was I opened and also no way because of my community 423 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:36,000 profile. They wanted me to help them as 424 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,400 well with like helping with their Community things that they 425 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,500 have that. So for example, they wanted a 426 00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:44,300 space where they could also hold meetups at they are off. 427 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:46,500 Office. So I help with setting up like 428 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:49,600 the engineer says she gear there so that we can make that the de 429 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,000 facto place. Even though I know place in go 430 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,600 in, go to, you can use our burn USB digital equipment is already 431 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,400 there. You can record as long as you 432 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,800 want to be there. We record the event for Eula. 433 00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,500 Also in our Junior Davis G. When we did our mentoring 434 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:05,200 program. We also used a speech to office 435 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,500 a capital H, the time. So, in a way, we wouldn't have 436 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:12,700 access all these things. If, in a way I will take the 437 00:22:12,708 --> 00:22:15,300 plunge into the come to commute. Contribute so much to the 438 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:19,800 community and to get that assurance and recognition to let 439 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800 us and the trust to the, as do this, things at such a scale. 440 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:28,500 So I'm very grateful for the trust that people have in me and 441 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,100 also, in the movements that I've started. 442 00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:32,800 Yeah, that's pretty cool. I think it because like, 443 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,000 obviously, when you do a community contribution, right 444 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000 more people will be aware of you. 445 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000 And I think it also builds some kind of, like personal brand. 446 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,400 And from there. I think like opportunities will 447 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,900 be in abundant, right? So you'll probably Real and a 448 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:48,600 cool job meet new people do networking and things like that, 449 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,500 right? You mentioned about jr. 450 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,500 Deaf as G, right? Let's switch to that topic for 451 00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:56,100 now. What makes you interested in 452 00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:01,400 bringing up this new community. So I noticed there were a lot of 453 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:05,200 young and new developers entering the market, maybe like 454 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,900 three, four years ago. I think it was because of there 455 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,700 was a proliferation of boot camps in Singapore. 456 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,300 I think, first first in our mind will be jealous. 457 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,100 Lewis, I'm be Jerusalem, Jerusalem bleah. 458 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,500 They were such as Alpha cam who is from Taiwan and so many 459 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,300 others, they are now in Singapore right now. 460 00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:26,900 And each of this good camps are churning out a lot of Young 461 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:30,400 Junior developers and drink Market either fresh graduates or 462 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,900 people who are mid-career switches. 463 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:35,400 So when I interact with some of these people, they were like do 464 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,600 they're really hungry for knowledge and in a way also if 465 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,000 you get intimidated coming in to meet up groups mainly because 466 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,200 they feel that the content being shared and the level of skill 467 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,100 that is required to basically understand what's happening in 468 00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:52,000 the Meetup. Tend to be a little bit above 469 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,500 their Hitler. I mean, it's very hard to in 470 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,400 three months, pick up all the jargons and understand 471 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,100 everything about technology. And to come to this meetup 472 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,700 groups, tends to be a bit intimidating for some of these 473 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,500 people. So for me, it was that desire to 474 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:08,100 help them write. As in, I think it's with every 475 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:11,200 single Community initiative. I started in the past. 476 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:16,000 It's always about the core team is to fill a Mmm, fewer got me 477 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,400 in the community to fill a gap. There is Ben. 478 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,100 There's a few and underserved group in the community. 479 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,900 Right? And then, this genotype is 480 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:26,100 basically one of those groups that are growing in numbers. 481 00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:28,800 And you also want them to succeed in what they do. 482 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:32,700 You also want them to progress beyond that point where they are 483 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:35,000 starting. So yeah, so I felt that there 484 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,200 should be also a support group for this group of people and it 485 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,700 just so happened. I stumble on what my friends 486 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,900 Twitter feed and he was like tending a junior death beat up 487 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:45,200 in know. Oh Bud, right? 488 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,000 So I was like, wow, this is a pretty interesting thing was 489 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,300 this course is going on though. So I checked out Judo depth, 490 00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,900 Ohio sounds pretty cool thing. And then they were doing quite a 491 00:24:52,908 --> 00:24:55,100 lot of things original. They're friendly or so. 492 00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:58,700 And as I got in touch with the founders of the gendered fio in 493 00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:01,200 Melbourne, I got a little more about there are objectives. 494 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,500 So what you do trying to do like they really wanted to have equal 495 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:07,000 diversity representation in session. 496 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,800 All the talks have audio events should have good diversity 497 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,600 ratio. There is kept at 50% So I see as 498 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,300 in they'll be People say women a person men and I felt it was a 499 00:25:17,308 --> 00:25:19,600 very good thing. That is that you're making it 500 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:22,900 you're helping create a conscious effort when that I 501 00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:24,600 feel is a very good thing. Yeah. 502 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,100 So I really agree with what they're trying to do and we want 503 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:29,600 to help them and to ask her whether I could start a chapter 504 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,800 in Singapore because I heard they were already starting one 505 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,900 in Sydney and New Zealand, so I thought I should also stop by 506 00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:36,700 and say hi, Paula. And I asked about it. 507 00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:39,900 They give me some materials and some of the conditions for 508 00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:42,100 running events under their brand name. 509 00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,300 And I thought, okay, I am agree with this. 510 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,000 As do this. And yeah, basically, I use all 511 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,900 my networking capabilities and this W fact, in the things I do, 512 00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:56,200 like as I share this on my Facebook, shares on my social 513 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,400 medias. There are people who agree with 514 00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,900 this or find it quite interesting. 515 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,600 They were just come for a lot and I'm always have a less wrong 516 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:04,600 my sleep. I just do it. 517 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,500 Yes, you know, do things that don't scale until you really 518 00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,900 need to scale. Yeah. 519 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,700 I like Angela says she do everything. 520 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,400 Myself myself first and you are going to How do you scale and 521 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,900 get volunteers and all that cynical generative? 522 00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:21,100 It was I just do it myself first and see what happens. 523 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,200 I'm thankful that I do have a core team, helping me right now. 524 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:28,300 So there's a team of about seven people on the team. 525 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:32,300 So they're really helping to organize the monthly meetups 526 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,000 developers gym as well as mentoring program. 527 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:41,100 So the emphasis of Julian FSG is not just a safe environment for 528 00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:42,900 June adapt to come and learn things. 529 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,600 This is our opportunity. Well, have been that work and 530 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,000 meet people in the community, which the otherwise we won't be 531 00:26:48,008 --> 00:26:50,400 able to see. I think the problem I had in my 532 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,100 early days as a software engineer was isolation. 533 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:55,600 I'm doing everything on my own and I need to have, I didn't 534 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,800 know there were there was a wider Community out there. 535 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,800 I think back in the day there wasn't things that stack 536 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,200 Overflow and Google really wasn't that you can find out 537 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,300 something there the other blog posts, but that's about it. 538 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:08,500 Right. So I really wanted to help them 539 00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:11,300 have the sense of community meet people, people that could become 540 00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:13,500 potentially a colleagues people that could potentially become 541 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:15,900 their bosses. The could potentially become 542 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:18,000 even people that can work with that. 543 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,000 So unlike my other previous events, they're running the past 544 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000 which was more tech-driven. This is more people driven. 545 00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:29,000 So I wanted more time to be set aside for networking people to 546 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,700 create connections with each other. 547 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,800 For those Junior, developer listeners here. 548 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,900 How can they participate in some of your activities, like your 549 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,800 monthly, meetups your developers Gene and your mentoring program. 550 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,200 So you can go to our meetup group. 551 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,300 We post all our weight. Events, there are not calm, just 552 00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:49,000 super agility of Singapore. You'll find it all here. 553 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,200 Just go to Junior death OS G. If you go to do the depth of SG, 554 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,600 you can find the links to our social medias. 555 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:59,300 So what is actually developers GM for those people who don't 556 00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:01,800 know about it. So our monthly, meetups usually 557 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,100 have split of networking and Tech talks. 558 00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:08,200 So as I as we go through this, as we were organizing, the 559 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,900 meetups, we felt that there still wasn't enough impact as 560 00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:13,100 in. Yeah, the generative. 561 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:16,400 So they really were We hungry for knowledge and we want to 562 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,900 really get better at their craft at the time. 563 00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:22,400 We were running the meetups for works of who started their 564 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,800 Jumpstart program and instructor that started. 565 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,600 The Jumpstart program is name is Gordon. 566 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,500 So Gordon will say he approached me and said, hey, you know, 567 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,400 yeah, the meetups are great if you have like content is being 568 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,200 shared. But if you also realize that 569 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,800 there needs to be more opportunities for coding and 570 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,700 practice, because after the boot camps, they still need to 571 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:42,400 continue their Cadence of learning, and Hands-On and 572 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:45,300 writing code and practicing. A good code, right? 573 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:48,300 So you felt that we should probably try and organize some 574 00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,000 things on weekends. And so, if you can come and kind 575 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000 of like work together and learn how to code, so Gordon was 576 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,200 behaving that. So help us who spearheaded the 577 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,100 developer's dream is essentially a coding Dojo like a coding dojo 578 00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:03,400 and Hands-On workshop for like 23 hours, you come together, you 579 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,800 do like Hands-On coding practice. 580 00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,900 You also learn about new technologies, like we did a bit 581 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,500 sometime last year was the kubernetes workshop. 582 00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:14,200 We walk people through how to use, how to start up. 583 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,400 We discussed the news media Cube and all that stuff to serve 584 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,200 their own communities thing. Right? 585 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,300 And it was really well attended. Every about 9000 people in the 586 00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,600 class. Wow, pretty big and only basic 587 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,900 operators was Google developer space. 588 00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,100 So it was quite cooler. But because of covid-19 required 589 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:33,800 put a stop to this for now. And until such time where we get 590 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,500 back to the point where you can gather, we can probably start 591 00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,200 this whole thing. Although ya know people are 592 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,300 working from home. So I guess, in a way, it's also 593 00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,600 a skill that we have to practice, right to be able to 594 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,700 do. Either like pair programming 595 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:48,800 communicate with colleagues over the Internet or through chats. 596 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,900 Probably it's something that you can explore. 597 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:53,600 How about the mentoring program itself. 598 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,700 So probably you can mention a little bit what it is all about 599 00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,000 so that maybe people who are interested to become a mentor or 600 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,600 a mentee can also participate. Yeah, so we have meetups that 601 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,700 would cater to some networking needs of community, Hands-On 602 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,400 coding workshops developers. Jim catered For The are much 603 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,700 more Hands-On and improving their But there's also one that 604 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:19,200 aspect opportunity developers, which is the sense of things 605 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,600 that are not, just technical. There are things that are not 606 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,100 just about technical. Capability is also about the 607 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:28,700 ability to work with their colleagues and the people and 608 00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,600 the profile of Junior developers. 609 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,500 I saw in the time where I was running, this it will be career 610 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:38,100 switches fresh graduates. Generally people who have never 611 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:40,700 worked in the tech company before their prior experience. 612 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:42,600 Maybe you have could be career search earlier. 613 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,800 Some working experience and Coming to the tech company. 614 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:48,300 There's some Dynamics. It just don't work the same way. 615 00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:50,800 There are some things that are very specific to the tech 616 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,300 industry. Like, how you need more bit more 617 00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:57,400 guidance to get started, more empathy and understanding from 618 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,400 your colleagues so that you can get up to speed in your coding 619 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,900 capabilities. And there's also that other part 620 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:04,300 of it, which is for very long time. 621 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,800 I think in our industry, we value CS degree more than 622 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,600 anything else. So as a microstructure, there's 623 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,600 always this nagging feeling that I'm not good enough. 624 00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:14,200 I find that a lot of the tech leaders. 625 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:18,200 Stow met with the first stretch. They have no time to really 626 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,700 meant all people. You take the ball a start-up, 627 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,400 see their president, stand out. Usually, he's the only senior 628 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,600 guy taking care of like, 561, Junior developers in the 629 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,800 keyboard. So that capacity and ability to 630 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,800 Mentor. People is very limited. 631 00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,600 And the other thing about our industry is that you don't 632 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,200 become a mentor just like that, right? 633 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,300 Yeah. You can't just flip a switch and 634 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,300 just because you are technically good, you know your craft very 635 00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:42,900 well. There's automatically make you a 636 00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:45,500 good teacher and mentor. And guide for other people. 637 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:47,900 In fact, you if you're very good and strong and kind of 638 00:31:47,908 --> 00:31:51,100 technically, you may feel very annoyed with somebody, just 639 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:53,000 keeps bugging. You about questions. 640 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,300 So, either way, I went to help Junior, developers learn how to 641 00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:59,900 work with the cedar, developers, how to work with the people in 642 00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:02,700 your company and learn how to adapt. 643 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:05,100 For example, one or advice. They gave a junior developer 644 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:08,600 wants or was he said, yeah, way to talk to a senior but it does 645 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,600 know how to go about engaging them. 646 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,400 So, I gave him some tips. Someone will be to help manage 647 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,300 senior developer. Time in says, help manage the 648 00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:19,400 apis distraction because as a senior developer the company, 649 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,100 you probably have a lot easy to work on. 650 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,800 So, having empathy for you to ask an eye hook, half an hour of 651 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,700 your time, so that you can help them manage your distraction and 652 00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:30,800 disruption, so that they would bump them onto that a lot of 653 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,600 time. He told me much later on that he 654 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,000 really helped him a lot. That's just a simple advice. 655 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,600 He was able to get a more productive time with his 656 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,400 Sicilian developer. Once you locate the time, you 657 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,800 have 100% focus of that person and of course, all on the part 658 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,700 of the The developer user has to do is own due diligence. 659 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:49,400 Learn about how to try and solve the problem on its own and 660 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,000 figure out different ways of doing it. 661 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:53,400 Only when he we have no way of solving it then approached a 662 00:32:53,408 --> 00:32:56,100 senior or get a senior allocate, some time to help them. 663 00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:58,000 Right? So this simple advice, things 664 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,800 like this, that doesn't come naturally to people and see the 665 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,700 developer. Sometimes. 666 00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,800 We don't know how to tell you developers that. 667 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,700 So skills are this I felt that having a mentoring program will 668 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:09,300 be helpful as in. You get together the senior 669 00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:11,600 developers. We have experienced mentoring 670 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,500 and to help him parts of this knowledge. 671 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,100 Love the journey. Problems that come to our 672 00:33:15,108 --> 00:33:16,700 program. If you don't have enough 673 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:19,600 mentoring in their own company because of the problem I told 674 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,100 you about is only one senior developer and you have so many 675 00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:24,600 Junior developers around you. And I hope the mentoring program 676 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,700 will help create that mentoring and nurturing environment. 677 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:30,500 To learn can help these Junior developers in their own Journey. 678 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,800 Le I think they are actually a lot of so-called mentors out 679 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,600 there who wants to contribute and nurture Junior developers as 680 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,300 well. Probably not in their companies, 681 00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,800 but it could be other companies or maybe students, who are still 682 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,900 studying, right? And This platform I find is very 683 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,600 unique in a sense that you mix and match people, the mentors 684 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,200 and the mentees to come together so that they have a blend a mix 685 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,900 of a knowledge trunk and also you can ask questions and 686 00:33:56,900 --> 00:33:59,800 discuss about certain topics. So just to share the listeners, 687 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,100 here are the topics that obviously, as a junior, right, 688 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:04,900 which I also had a during my early career as things like 689 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:07,100 impostor syndrome. How do you know that you are 690 00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,500 good enough? How do you make contribution to 691 00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:11,800 the work? Managing your bosses, managing 692 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,100 your work and projects dealing with? 693 00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:17,199 The people to work with. So all these obviously are good 694 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,199 topics for the mende student from the mentors from the 695 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,800 industry. So is there any Vision on what 696 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,000 are you would bring this junior death as Gene X I guess as long 697 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,400 as we can touch the lives of do the developers. 698 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,100 I think one of the goals that I have set for us, is for our 699 00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,500 Junior developers to drop their junior title. 700 00:34:37,699 --> 00:34:40,500 That's nice. I have a sort of explicit goals 701 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:43,900 of the gender diversity, right? Is to provide a safe environment 702 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:46,800 for junior developers to learn from each other and to share 703 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,300 about their learning Journeys, mentoring opportunities for 704 00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:52,699 developers who might not have such resources available to them 705 00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:55,699 at their workplace and help each other level up into senior 706 00:34:55,699 --> 00:34:58,500 positions, and eventually take up leadership positions. 707 00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:00,600 So, these are three explicit goals. 708 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,900 Nice. I think it's pretty high and for 709 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:06,000 you to start up this initiatives and I'm sure more and more 710 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,400 Junior developers can benefit from this initiative. 711 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,400 The only thing is like how to scale this to reach out more and 712 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,100 more people, right? Yeah. 713 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,100 As I said, sometimes I tend to do the Uber way, which is do 714 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:22,500 things that can scale. See how it goes. 715 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,000 Yeah, maybe some of you the listeners who find this 716 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,800 opportunity, interesting. You can also contact Michael to 717 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,100 be involved in the initiative, trying to help in whatever way 718 00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:34,600 that we can. So before we wrap up. 719 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,300 Normally, I would ask all my guests to answer. 720 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,800 One question that I have which is what are the three tekhelet 721 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,700 wisdoms that you have for the listeners to know. 722 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,200 Right, so I'm actually a pretty new technology in myself because 723 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,800 I only took up the role of a tech lead last year when I 724 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,100 joined of tech. So for me, it has also been a 725 00:35:53,100 --> 00:35:56,900 learning experience to figure out how to actually lead a team 726 00:35:56,900 --> 00:35:59,400 and how to manage a team and even first time in my life, 727 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,800 having direct reports people report to me. 728 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,800 So suddenly you have another life you need to take care of 729 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,100 and it's not just somebody that you care for like the mentoring 730 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:09,900 program that once a week kind of thing, right? 731 00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:12,400 This is somebody that you need to help in their personal 732 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,600 growth, like five days a week. So, yeah, I would say the true 733 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,500 reasons. I wish I had known when I first 734 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:19,000 started. This is number one. 735 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,900 Don't panic. What do you mean by Don't Panic? 736 00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:26,500 Like, sometimes I was like, oh, wow, this is too much for me. 737 00:36:26,500 --> 00:36:29,400 How the hell am I gonna do this? And first thing I would think is 738 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,100 Don't Panic, you've got this. So don't panic. 739 00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:34,700 You've gotten you to where you are because of your years of 740 00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:38,300 experience because your years of learning everything, you've 741 00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:41,300 learned in the past is prepare you for this time and this 742 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:44,100 moment in your life so you can do this, don't panic. 743 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,300 It right the second time. This time. 744 00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:49,100 I will share it to anyone who's take care of that level. 745 00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,900 First time is silence, can be a good thing, right? 746 00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:55,500 Be afraid of Silence because it's in silence. 747 00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:58,800 You can actually think the refrain for this is don't rush 748 00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:59,800 into things. Right? 749 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:03,400 And everything is like pushing for you to get things done and 750 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,800 everything is like, yeah, let's take a moment here. 751 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,300 That's going on. Yeah, it's fine, figure this 752 00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:08,500 out. Take your time. 753 00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:11,900 Even silence is good because then you can we think about the 754 00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:13,800 next steps and don't be afraid of it. 755 00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:17,200 You Violence as a way of thinking, Abreva, taking a pause 756 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,400 before you take the next steps, and the taupe take resume. 757 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,700 I will give to anyone who is going to take up the technique 758 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:25,600 growing for the first time is, it's okay to say, I don't know. 759 00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:29,300 It's okay to say, you don't know, because you really don't 760 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:33,000 know. Yeah. 761 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,700 I find like, especially these days acknowledge, e landscape 762 00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:38,100 keeps changing in a rapid fast manner, right? 763 00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:42,000 Obviously, there's no one person who is able to grasp everything, 764 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,800 right precisely. And I think that is Is a very 765 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,500 important point for those techniques out there. 766 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,200 It's okay to do know about something, right? 767 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,500 Yeah, but it's not okay to stay ignorant. 768 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,300 So do find out. If you can take your time and 769 00:37:56,300 --> 00:38:00,300 find out and learn in my one-year Journey being a tech 770 00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:03,300 lead is like, I'm also learning a lot about myself and learning 771 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:07,500 about developing that awareness for what my strengths are and 772 00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:10,300 what my weaknesses are, recognizing them and then trying 773 00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:12,500 to find ways to compensate for my weaknesses. 774 00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:19,300 So, If you that not the best encourager, I think I can be the 775 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:23,800 guy who would be giving you warm encouragement every moment of 776 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,900 the day, but I try my best to make sure that the spirits are 777 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:29,900 high in the team that I'm working with. 778 00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:34,500 Try to inject some humor smile, a bit more and help the team get 779 00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:38,000 through this difficult times, which is, yeah, something you 780 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,400 have to do. Yeah, exactly. 781 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,700 All right, so how can people find and connect with you 782 00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:47,400 online? On Twitter coder, Kung Fu c. 0d 783 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,400 h KU + GF you cause a kung-fu on Twitter as well as on Instagram. 784 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,500 Thanks Michael again for your time. 785 00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,400 Hope to see you again, right? See ya. 786 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,000 Thank you for listening to this episode. 787 00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:02,400 And I hope that you'll find today's conversation. 788 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,600 Useful to get to know on how to build a Tech Community, 789 00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:08,900 especially to learn from one of the most prominent Community, 790 00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:12,000 Builders in Singapore. If you find this episode 791 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,400 valuable, it would mean a lot to me. 792 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,100 If you can share this with your friends, your colleagues, your 793 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:19,800 social media. Also, if you haven't, please 794 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,700 subscribe. And follow this show wherever 795 00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:25,300 you get your podcast from and leave your valuable rating and 796 00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:27,500 review. So that these podcasts It can be 797 00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:30,500 service to more people who can then benefit from it. 798 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,100 Thank you again for tuning in. Stay safe and healthy and I'll 799 00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:35,200 see you next time.