1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,480 Hey, thank you for being part of the Techligional community. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,080 This show wouldn't be the same without your ears and you are 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,120 the reason this show exists. Creating this podcast is a labor 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:14,640 of love, but the truth is it also takes time, a whole lot of 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,880 passion, and an extra bit of caffeine. 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,280 So if you're loving TLJ and want to see it keep on growing, 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:26,160 consider becoming a patron at Techligional dot def Patron or 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,600 buying me a coffee at Techligional dot Def Coffee. 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,840 Every little bit helps. Feel the research, editing, and 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,000 sleepless nights that go into making the show the best it can 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,960 be. Thanks for being the best 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,160 listeners any podcast could ask for. 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,800 Yeah. So in my work with a lot of 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,440 engineers and technology professionals, there is just so 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:51,360 many people who have this sense of like, hey, shouldn't there be 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,840 a little bit more to this, like more fulfilment and more 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,720 alignment with where their career is headed and the things 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,360 that they care about in their lives? 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,720 And that's the whole idea of being intentional instead of 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,720 being reactive or unintentional and just letting your life come 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,160 to you. We have this opportunity to 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,240 choose what we want to do and who we want to become, which I 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:25,800 think is what's most important. Hey everyone, my name is Henry 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,000 Surya Virawan and you're listening to the Technically 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,160 Journal Podcast, the show where I'll be bringing you the 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,280 greatest technical leaders, practitioners and thought 27 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,720 leaders in the industry to discuss about their journey, 28 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:44,440 ideas and practices that we all can learn and apply to build a 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,000 highly performing technical team and to make an impact in your 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,200 personal work. So let's dive into our journal. 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,200 Hello again, my friends and my listeners. 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,440 You're listening to the Tech Lead Journal Podcast, a podcast 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,520 on technical leadership and excellence. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,200 If you haven't, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app. 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,600 And you can also enjoy Tech Lead Journal's bite size contents on 36 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,800 LinkedIn X, Instagram, YouTube, and Tiktok. 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,200 Are you tired of feeling uninspired and disengaged in 38 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,880 your engineering career? If so, then this episode is for 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,320 you. My guest for today's episode is 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,880 Jeff Perry, and he is back for a second episode with his latest 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,760 book, The Intentional Engineer. In this episode, Jeff uncovers 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,920 the keys to building a meaningful, fulfilling career by 43 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:40,120 cultivating more intentionality. We dive into the quiet quitting 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,680 phenomenon happening worldwide, and Jeff shares his personal 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,680 story of disengagement during a particular stage in his career. 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,560 Learn Jeff's intentional engineer model to assess your 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,200 current situation and start becoming more intentional toward 48 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,200 your lives and career. You will also learn the 49 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,720 importance of identifying your core values, the power of 50 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,840 mindsets, getting your career clarity, finding your genius 51 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,480 zones, and a few core skills you should learn for living more 52 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,840 intentionally. I hope you enjoy listening to 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,160 this episode and getting inspired to make changes toward 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,160 a more meaningful and fulfilling career. 55 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,880 Please share this with your colleagues, friends, and 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,360 communities and leave a five star rating and review on Apple 57 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,880 Podcasts and Spotify. So let's now go to my 58 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,840 conversation with Jeff. Jeff, since we last talked, so I 59 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,600 know that you wrote a book, so maybe tell us a little bit more 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,200 what you were up to these days. Yeah. 61 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,920 So writing a book is a whole process, and I did it maybe in 62 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,360 an atypical fashion. My had some mentors and things 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,440 that I was working with earlier this summer. 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,320 So when we're talking here, this is November of 2023. 65 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,280 But in the summer earlier this year, it's mentors I was talking 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,320 to. And I've been doing a lot of 67 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,480 this work and coaching and training and things for 68 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,360 engineers and technology professionals for years. 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,640 Now his mentors are like, when are you going to write a book? 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,120 And it finally clicked. And I also had an event that I 71 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,640 was going to and to be speaking at in a few months. 72 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,240 And I sort of just caught in my mind like, hey, how cool would 73 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,279 it be to go speak at that event, which is about 3 months away and 74 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,399 have my book there that I could share with people. 75 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,080 And there's just a lot of energy behind that. 76 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,560 And so I sprinted to get this done. 77 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,560 And from IDEA to publish was about 3 months to get this book 78 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,280 done. And so that that was a lot to 79 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:35,800 get that done. But it was also very fulfilling. 80 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,480 Something that I've been thinking about and wondering 81 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,240 about. Like, hey, I wanted to be an 82 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,760 author for a long time, and I've considered myself an author. 83 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,760 And then I've written dozens and dozens, hundreds of articles and 84 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,320 newsletters and things over the years. 85 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,400 And finally compiling a lot of that into a book is a labor of 86 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,720 love. And I and I hope that people 87 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,680 really enjoy it. This episode is brought to you 88 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,000 by Miro. As you will learn in this 89 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,200 episode about becoming more intentional in your engineering 90 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,280 career and life, one of the best ways to get more clarity is 91 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,400 through the power of visualizations. 92 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,280 Either it's about figuring out your core values, getting your 93 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:15,040 career clarity, or connecting the dots between various aspects 94 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,680 of your career and life. Although certainly you can do 95 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,720 all of these in pen and paper or on your journal, having an 96 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,880 online tool that can allow you to be in your creative space 97 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,880 without physical limitation is extremely useful and the one 98 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,840 tool I recommend for you to use is Miro Miro. 99 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,080 With a lot of readily available predefined templates, you can 100 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,520 kickstart your brainstorming and mind mapping activities within 101 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,680 seconds, and you can also collaborate with other people 102 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,600 easily when you need to. Your creative process becomes 103 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,240 much more engaging, visually appealing and more productive 104 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,480 with many features provided by Miro, including the newly added 105 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,120 AI Assistant. Find simplicity in your most 106 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,120 complex projects and ideas with Mirror Your first three mirror 107 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,280 boards are free when you Sign up today at mirror.com/podcast. 108 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,480 That's three free boards@miro.com/podcast. 109 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,840 And now let's get back to our episode. 110 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,040 Well, three months to write the whole book. 111 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,400 I think that's really a great thing that you achieved. 112 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,480 I always wondered when I will write a book as well, so maybe 113 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,880 one day I'll try to write 1. But today, yeah, we're gonna 114 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,240 talk about your new book, right? So The Intentional Engineer. 115 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,960 So the title itself sounds interesting for me. 116 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,680 In the 1st place, what kind of problems do you think that 117 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,560 you're trying to solve by writing this book? 118 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,640 Yeah. So in my work with a lot of 119 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,280 engineers and technology professionals, there's just so 120 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:48,200 many people who have this sense of like, hey, shouldn't there be 121 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,000 a little bit more to this and not more? 122 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,840 Like, hey, I should be getting more money and more prestige and 123 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,920 all that. But like more fulfillment and 124 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:00,400 more alignment with where their career is headed and the things 125 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,080 that they care about in their lives. 126 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,080 And I found that so many people, when they've kind of sensed 127 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,880 that, they found themselves just to be sort of in kind of 128 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,080 survival mode or just opportunistic. 129 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,960 Like different roles or opportunities came their way 130 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,920 over the years. And they just took that and ran 131 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,600 with it and it gets them to a point. 132 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,680 And then they're like, hey, what do I really want? 133 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,800 Instead of letting other people dictate what they want for me? 134 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,440 And that's the whole idea of being intentional instead of 135 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,440 being reactive or unintentional and just letting your life come 136 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,880 to you. We have this opportunity to 137 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,960 choose what we want to do and who we want to become, which I 138 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,480 think is what's most important. Like it's the process of not 139 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,240 achieving certain things but becoming who we're meant to 140 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,720 become over the course of our lives and careers. 141 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,720 And it's a choice, right? And so this idea to be 142 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,080 intentional is a choice and a choice that all of us get to 143 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,040 make. You can make it once, but you 144 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,400 can make it every day, every week, every year of our lives. 145 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,600 To be intentional again and again and again, over and over. 146 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,200 And I hope that this book infuses some of that. 147 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,560 It helps people level up the way that they think about all these 148 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,280 things. And then obviously to take 149 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,360 action with intention to become who they want to become and 150 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,960 unleash some of their potential that might right now be laying a 151 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,680 little bit dormant. Yeah, I think in the past few 152 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,800 years, if we have learned from the journey, right, from the 153 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,840 pandemic and the uncertainties, you know, massive layoffs 154 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,600 happening everywhere, I think people start to questioning 155 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,720 themselves, right? What is the true thing that you 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,320 are achieving in life and work and especially like you 157 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,440 mentioned, right, Sometimes we didn't think about it until a 158 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,280 certain major event happening, like new opportunity comes, like 159 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,360 for example, layoff happening. You have your own story as well 160 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,320 that you wrote in the book. Maybe if you can share a little 161 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,160 bit about your own story. Yeah. 162 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,520 So the interesting thing about my story that kind of led me to 163 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,480 eventually doing what I'm doing now in the coaching and the 164 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,120 training work that I get to do is that a lot of things are 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,640 really good. And that's the interesting 166 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,880 thing, is like, sometimes you don't necessarily need to be 167 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,680 laid off and have some cataclysmic event or something 168 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:11,640 to sort of jar you. But a lot of things were good. 169 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,880 I was in a great company. I was getting paid well. 170 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,920 I'd had growth opportunities. I'd done a number of different 171 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,920 things. There were some changes that 172 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,040 were made that maybe weren't in line with what I really want to 173 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,920 do next. And so that got me to reflect 174 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,240 back and look at, hey, what do I really want to do it? 175 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,600 This isn't what I want to do. And I only could really identify 176 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,800 that at that time. Like, this isn't really yet, but 177 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,680 I don't even know what that was yet. 178 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,840 And so this journey of kind of finding the power of 179 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,920 intentionality was just kind of beginning for me. 180 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,200 But I did know, as I had opportunities during that time 181 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,040 to do some training, coaching internally, that I loved the 182 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,920 really human element of things rather than just focusing on the 183 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,880 technologies themselves, but the people behind the technology and 184 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,440 unleashing some of that potential. 185 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,640 And so my family life was good. I was comfortable. 186 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,960 I was getting paid well and all that stuff, but I still kind of 187 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,440 felt lost. And so we almost needed 188 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,680 sometimes give our permission to say, hey, it's OK even when 189 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,760 things are going well on paper, to not feel like things are 190 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,600 quite right for us. And that changes over time in 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,960 different stages of our lives. But it may be a a really big 192 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,320 catalyst moment for you. Or you might just reflect and be 193 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,600 like and ask yourself the questions, Am I really doing and 194 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,640 becoming who I want to be? And if the answer is no, then 195 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,760 that opens up a whole world of possibility. 196 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,000 Like, OK, then what? And that can be scary. 197 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,720 Or we can get excited about that and think about, OK, let's go 198 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,880 design the future of us. Yeah, I think your own story, 199 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,840 right, Could relate to so many people as well. 200 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,400 So just like what you said, right? 201 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,360 It doesn't have to take a major event to start questioning, you 202 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,560 know, about life, about Korea in general, right? 203 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,600 But also when you're feeling good, right? 204 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,400 You seem like, you know, getting paid well, you know, family 205 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,840 life, no issue, career wise, you're also progressing. 206 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,040 But I think as you also grow in age, sometimes as you get older, 207 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,600 right, you start questioning like, is that it? 208 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Right? Is there something else that I 209 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,440 would like to do right? Is there something more 210 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,120 meaningful, I guess when people grow in their age? 211 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,720 So I think you also mentioned the statistics quoted by Gallup 212 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,040 in the Global Workforce report. I read it. 213 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,800 I think it's also intriguing, right? 214 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,080 Like more than half or like 55%? People are kind of like quiet 215 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,520 quitting, right? Even though they have a job, and 216 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,520 many of them also disengage. So tell us more about these 217 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,640 statistics, right? What do you find interesting 218 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,520 with that? Yeah, Gallup does this world 219 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,680 survey every year. And so it splits it up over the 220 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:50,880 worldwide data as well as by country or region. 221 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,560 And so I'm just opening up the book to grab myself. 222 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,800 Only 23% of people worldwide feel like they're thriving at 223 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,920 work. That's a sad number to me, 224 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,280 right? That's not even a quarter of 225 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,880 people feel like they're really thriving. 226 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,320 And it's a little bit higher in the US where I'm at. 227 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,920 I think it's like just over 30%, but it's still not a whole lot. 228 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,880 And 59% are quite quitting and 18% are actively disengaged, 229 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,680 right? So it's a whole bunch of people 230 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,640 who are unhappy with some aspect of their work. 231 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,120 But I think about the opportunity there for, I mean, 232 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,160 numbers that low, there's a huge opportunity to increase that. 233 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,840 And what does increasing those numbers mean? 234 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,960 First of all, from an individual? 235 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,960 Like how cool would that be for me as an individual or any one 236 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,200 of our listeners to move from? I'm actively disengaged to 237 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,000 thriving and what that means for them and their family and the 238 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,640 people around them and the kind of person they'll become when 239 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,320 they're in that space, right? So that's a cool thing. 240 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,160 Second of all, I believe that engineers and technology 241 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,080 professionals have a huge opportunity to solve some of the 242 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,360 biggest problems on the planet. And they are going to be more 243 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,480 innovative, productive, collaborative, and all those 244 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,880 things. When they are more engaged and 245 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,840 when they're in the thriving state, when they're actively 246 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,840 disengaged, they're certainly not really going to be doing 247 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,240 their best work, right? So companies, organizations have 248 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,760 a financial incentive to improve these numbers as well as the 249 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,280 employees, the individuals taking responsibility for. 250 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,280 How can I design my life and career in a way that I can find 251 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,280 an opportunity that gets me into that thriving space And that's a 252 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,440 Co creative experience, right? Because I don't want to pretend 253 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,120 like, hey, if you just go make a career change, like suddenly 254 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,240 grass is going to be greener on the other side. 255 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,160 And if you're not liking where you're at right now. 256 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,360 And at the same time, the organizations who are employing 257 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,120 people have a responsibility to create environments and cultures 258 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,600 where people can thrive. As well as developing people, 259 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,960 helping them get in touch with the things that are most 260 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,360 important to them and finding ways to align that with the work 261 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,760 that they get to do. This is a Co creative experience 262 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,160 and that's part of the work that I get to do now is help the 263 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,080 individuals and the organizations help combine that 264 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,000 in a way to move from kind of surviving to thriving. 265 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,240 Yeah, I think being engaged in work is really important to me, 266 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,280 right, Because we spend a lot of hours in our day, you know, 267 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,760 weeks to actually do our work, right. 268 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,760 So if we are actively disengaged, I think that will 269 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,680 kind of like ripple into all aspects of our life as well our 270 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,160 mood, you know, maybe our relationship with family and 271 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,040 friends. So I think really, really 272 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,920 crucial that we try to be more engaged in our work, right. 273 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,800 And sometimes we can find new jobs, but it is also very 274 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,640 opportunistic and there's a lot of probability that it may not 275 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,680 work as well. So I think being intentional 276 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,480 here, which we are going to discuss, what does it mean 277 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,960 actually to you when you say being more intentional? 278 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,680 Yeah. So I I shared it a little bit 279 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,880 earlier that being intentional is a choice. 280 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:05,040 And for me, another way to use that or a few other words that 281 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,360 we can talk about being intentional is deliberate, 282 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,440 purpose driven and all of that. When we're driven by our 283 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,600 intention of who we want to become and the things that are 284 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,480 most important to us, it drives our actions, right, to create 285 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,320 the outcomes that we're trying to create. 286 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,920 And so it's an opportunity to decide who you want to become 287 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,160 and decide are you willing to do what it takes to make that 288 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:30,600 happen. That's what it means to me to be 289 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,160 intentional. Yeah. 290 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,760 So I think first you have to kind of like find the purpose, 291 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,200 kind of like be deliberate and also importantly the take action 292 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,440 part, right, Because I believe all of us will have ideas, will 293 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,840 have our own dreams, but not many people probably take the 294 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,320 step to actually do the actions, which in your book you advocate 295 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,760 people to do some kind of activities, right. 296 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,200 So like being more intentional in terms of actions and maybe do 297 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,480 journaling. So maybe it's time for you to 298 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,120 probably mention a little bit about your workbook companion, 299 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,240 right? That you create as well, along 300 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,120 with the book. Yeah, so with the book that 301 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,040 people can get on Amazon or find more information at the 302 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,720 intentionalengineer.com. I also created a companion 303 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,720 workbook that people can use. And this is a lot bigger. 304 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,200 It's like full pages and you can buy an Amazon or if you purchase 305 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,000 a book you can get a copy of the workbook for free. 306 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,360 The digital copy and the whole reason I did that is a lot of 307 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,440 times when I'm reading books, I focus first on kind of consuming 308 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,880 the book, whether I'm listening to the book or just kind of 309 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,960 reading through the book. And I get through the book and 310 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,440 sometimes have completion compulsion. 311 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,240 I just want to get through the book, but I don't usually take 312 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,120 the time to actually step back and be like, hey, there are all 313 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,000 these activities and questions and reflections and things to do 314 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,000 in there and I have a whole lot of those at the end of every 315 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,440 chapter. I have take intentional action 316 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,160 section here, but I know that there's probably a whole lot of 317 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,480 people that won't do that just when they read the book. 318 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,720 And so that's the whole point of the workbook is to give people 319 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,680 the space. And so I open up all the 320 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,119 questions and the activities that are in the book and give 321 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,359 you space to go reflect on the questions that are asked or 322 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,079 reflect on or record what happened is you took the 323 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:18,280 recommended actions and or make plans to do so, whatever that 324 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,200 is, so that you can take the ideas and put them into practice 325 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,119 as you do so. So all that can be found at the 326 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,640 intentional engineer.com. Yeah, I find this kind of book 327 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,720 actually works best if you do the activities as well, right? 328 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,440 Not just consuming. I personally also like tend to 329 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,640 consume more rather than doing the activity. 330 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,760 But I've found that this kind of books actually work best if you 331 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,280 do the activities and you don't, doing reflection, pondering and 332 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,400 even asking questions for some of those activities, because the 333 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,120 feedback that you get from people will be much more useful 334 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:51,000 as well. Exactly. 335 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,680 So yeah, in your book you have this intentional engineer model. 336 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,520 I find that really interesting, if you can walk that through to 337 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,400 people so that they understand where they are at at the moment. 338 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,560 Yeah. So this model helps us 339 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,080 understand, like you said, where we're at in our life and career. 340 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,480 And you think about a ladder kind of moving up in different 341 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,440 rungs, but instead of a corporate ladder, like, hey, I'm 342 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,400 moving up in the different titles and things, it's moving 343 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,280 up in kind of our level of engagement and satisfaction with 344 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,280 our life and how that aligns with our work. 345 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,040 So anyway, at the very bottom on the career side, people are 346 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,600 usually unemployed, like there is no career that's happening at 347 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,480 the moment. So they're feeling overlooked, 348 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,360 right? So the status is unemployed, but 349 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,680 they're feeling overlooked. And that's typically leads to a 350 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,240 lot of stress and anxiety around that. 351 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,520 We move up and people are employed, but they're kind of in 352 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,560 a survival mode to where I call it surviving, usually not making 353 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,720 a whole lot of money, but just enough to survive. 354 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,440 And so they're in the state of what I call obligatory state 355 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,760 where they're doing what they need to, to take care of the 356 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,800 basic needs of life, But not much more is going on beyond 357 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,880 that. And then kind of the third level 358 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,880 is where I find a whole lot of people at in the engineering 359 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,560 technology space. They're in opportunistic mode 360 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,000 and they're being paid well, but they're disengaged. 361 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,560 And this is where I was when I kind of tell my story, where I 362 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,400 was lost and where we were just talking about some of the stats 363 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040 around being disengaged. A whole lot of people, a good 364 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,920 majority of people in my experience are in this space 365 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:25,040 even if they are getting paid well because money doesn't 366 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,120 create satisfaction. You know, we all want to be paid 367 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,320 fairly and money can provide opportunities to do other 368 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,840 things, but money in itself doesn't create satisfaction. 369 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,560 And so the tipping point over here is move from being 370 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,080 opportunistic to being intentional, right. 371 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,480 And then this leads us into a state, this kind of 4th level 372 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,920 being intentional of experiencing purposeful growth. 373 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,440 So that purpose driven growth and opportunity perhaps 374 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,160 financially it often can be when we kind of step into our best 375 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,400 selves but also into the other areas of our life that we most 376 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,160 care about and that can lead us to kind of the fifth level here 377 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:06,480 is being more intentional and digging into our life's work and 378 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,600 being more impactful. So it goes beyond just us, me as 379 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,120 an individual, and how can I impact others as a leader in the 380 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,600 organization, as a thought leader, as a mentor, impactful 381 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,080 in my community and the other things and causes that I care 382 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,280 about. Because it goes beyond just me 383 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,120 and just the career and the actions and things that I'm 384 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,240 taking here. But what does that mean 385 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,000 globally? And the type of impact that I 386 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,080 want to have in the world then on my community and on my 387 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,720 family, right. And so no matter where you're 388 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,240 at, right, if you're all the way down at the bottom, kind of, 389 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,080 hey, I'm unemployed. I don't have a job right now. 390 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,360 I can't even think about what's next until I get something. 391 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,120 OK, that's fine. Let's just move up and get you 392 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,440 at least something. You can take care of the basics 393 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,600 and then you have that mental space to move to what's next. 394 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,240 We still want to be driven with some of that intentionality all 395 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,560 the way through and thinking about who we want to become, but 396 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,560 sometimes we need to get to a base state before we can take 397 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:03,960 the next step, and that's totally fine. 398 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,120 Embrace the reality of where we currently are and say, how can I 399 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,400 just take another step forward towards becoming who I want to 400 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,440 be? Yeah. 401 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,120 I find this model really interesting to make sense of 402 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,320 where we are at. Although like what you said, 403 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,080 right, many people may be in this position of being paid but 404 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,160 disengaged, right, because they are not doing the career that 405 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,520 aligns with who they are. And I think the tipping point is 406 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,200 what you mentioned being more intentional and so that you can 407 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,440 get purposeful growth. But I think the tipping point 408 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,920 normally also involves a lot of kind of like uncertainties and 409 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,720 risks, right, Which many people would not have made the step 410 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,720 because this is like a tipping point, right? 411 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,400 So maybe a little bit of advice here because people being paid 412 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,480 well, although they disengage, means they are safe, right? 413 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,680 They kind of like have a job, they can, you know, do other 414 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,280 activities they like. But sometimes the risk is 415 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,720 something that they don't want to take. 416 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,280 So tell us, maybe some advice about how to make the step to 417 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,000 actually go past this tipping point? 418 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,480 Yeah, right. So I mean, you mentioned a few 419 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,880 words there, the risk and the uncertainty. 420 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,800 And usually when we think of words like that, what comes up 421 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,120 as a whole lot of fear. I quote this quote in the book, 422 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,800 but from a psychologist by the name of Virginia Cetir. 423 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,880 And I love it. And I think about this all the 424 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,320 time, is that many people prefer the certainty of misery to the 425 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,560 misery of uncertainty. When I think about making a 426 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,280 change from what I know right now, OK, if I'm paid and 427 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,360 disengaged, I'm not enjoying where I'm at. 428 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,440 I'm not being like I'm living my best, you know, being my best 429 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,520 self for growing purposefully and all those things. 430 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,240 But the idea of changing to something else, I don't know how 431 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,720 that's going to work out. I know what this is like right 432 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,000 now, and I'm comfortable enough. Why would I change when I don't 433 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,120 know what that's going to look like? 434 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,840 Well, that sounds like digging into that certainty of misery. 435 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,120 And that change doesn't necessarily need to mean a 436 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,040 change in your job role or position, right? 437 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,920 That change could be a change in you, your mindset, how you 438 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,360 approach all of that and the relationships at work and in 439 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,400 your personal life, which is also feels uncomfortable and 440 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,240 uncertain when we try and become something different. 441 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,640 But something needs to change to step into that intentionality. 442 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,880 Instead of you saying I'm just going to stick with what I know, 443 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,040 this is who I am, why would I change? 444 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,200 And so, yeah, it's risky, right? I don't quote this, but I love 445 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,520 the whole concept from Brené Brown and her Daring Greatly 446 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,440 book. She takes that daring greatly 447 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,760 idea from a quote, I think from Theodore Roosevelt, if I'm not 448 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,760 mistaken. You know, this idea like the man 449 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,920 in the arena. Like, it's the man in the arena 450 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,800 who's trying new things, who's in the fight that has the 451 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,080 courage that counts, not someone who's just a spectator, right? 452 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,720 So are you going to be a spectator of your life, or are 453 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,520 you going to step into the arena, try something new and 454 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,840 step up to what your potential is? 455 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,800 Because if we just kind of sit back and rest on our laurels, 456 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,360 then we're probably diminishing who we can become. 457 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,880 And that's a sad thing in my mind. 458 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,440 I think all of us are, You know, I think about the ideas of like 459 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,560 energy, like we are full of potential energy, right? 460 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,720 We're full of fuel that is ready to be unleashed for goodness in 461 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,560 the world. And I don't want any of us to 462 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,680 leave without having spent that in the ways that we can. 463 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Yeah, Thanks for clarifying that. 464 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,680 Being intentional doesn't mean you have to change your whole 465 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,800 career, right? Or do some things that totally 466 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,160 different than what you do. It could be a small step, small 467 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000 experiments, right? The key here is being in 468 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,400 alignment with what you want and being more intentional, right. 469 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,160 And I think taking risks and, you know, embracing uncertainty 470 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,560 is something that we have to do anyway if we want to grow, 471 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,720 right. Just like when we were kids, we 472 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,400 learn a lot, We make a lot of mistakes, but we grow a lot as 473 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,520 well. Normally when we get to adults, 474 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,440 you know, like life becomes much more stable and we don't want to 475 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,560 take risks. So I think the same key message 476 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,680 that you bring here is to actually don't be afraid to take 477 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,800 the necessary steps right, as long as it's aligned with what 478 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,960 you want and who you want to become, right. 479 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,920 Which brings us to the important things first, right? 480 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,400 Because if we want to be intentional, you mentioned that 481 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,480 we need to understand our core values. 482 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,240 So tell us what do you mean by core values and how can we find 483 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,480 them? Yeah. 484 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,280 So core values are values and principles and traits that we 485 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,320 care about that we want to live by. 486 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,160 Some people find those that come from like a faith background or 487 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,680 something like that. For others, it may just be 488 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,560 things that they value and other people. 489 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,680 That's some of the ways that we can identify those things. 490 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:37,840 But I look at core values as an opportunity to be a just those 491 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,360 guiding principles that we make decisions on so we can identify 492 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,760 those. I have some activities in there 493 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,520 and and you can start with sort of saying like hey, what are the 494 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,960 traits that you really appreciate in other people? 495 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,680 Hey, this person is really what? Like what's the word that you 496 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,320 would use to describe this person that you really love and 497 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,320 respect? You know, make a list of those 498 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,240 people and what are the traits that you really respect about 499 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,680 them? If you really respect it and 500 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,200 others, it's probably something that you care about and want to 501 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,040 cultivate more and more in yourself. 502 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,080 And then we can start to whittle that down. 503 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,680 And I usually recommend getting to a list of three to seven. 504 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,720 You get too few, You know, there's not really much going 505 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,480 on. You get too many, you can't even 506 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,000 remember them. I use a group of five and I put 507 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,000 it into an acronym to help me remember what they are. 508 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,240 And so then when I'm faced with decisions or opportunities or 509 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720 challenges, I can look at and remember and reflect on those 510 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,080 core values and say, hey, is this in line with those things 511 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,280 that I've declared are important to me and the values that I want 512 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,240 to live by? Am I going to be 100% perfect 513 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,760 and 100% congruent with those values? 514 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,200 You know, every moment of every day, if I can keep coming back 515 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,200 to that and keep remembering that I can keep trying to become 516 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,680 more and more of a person who lives by those values, then 517 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,240 perhaps when other people interact with me, they're going 518 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,280 to recognize those values in me. And I can make decisions based 519 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,920 on those values rather than based on some of the fears or 520 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,720 uncertainties or the other things that we previously talked 521 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,640 about. Yeah, I think these days there 522 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,720 are so many these kind of personality tests that can kind 523 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720 of like guide you along, like how to find your traits, maybe 524 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,240 your values as well. I personally like the strengths 525 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,200 Finder, right? So you can get the top five or 526 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,480 whatever, then the strengths that you can find from there. 527 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,520 But to me the most important thing is not just identifying 528 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,080 those values, but you use them to actually make decisions, 529 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,920 right? Because sometimes we kind of 530 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,160 like take for granted, OK, this is who we are, but we kind of 531 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,920 like forget what are the values, but we make decision based on 532 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,920 maybe a compulsion, right, Like taking at that moment what is 533 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,680 most important at that time, but doesn't necessary align with 534 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,360 your values. So like identifying this value, 535 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,960 I think it's really important but then you have to use that 536 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,200 and making decisions, especially the big major decisions like 537 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,360 changing career or you know, changing the kind of lifestyle 538 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,680 that you want to have after values, the next important thing 539 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,880 in your book you mentioned about mindsets. 540 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,720 So tell us what is the most important thing about mindset 541 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,000 that we have to cultivate? Yeah, mindsets. 542 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,320 I get really excited about the power of mindsets. 543 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,920 And it's our thought patterns and our beliefs that drive our 544 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,240 actions, which then drive our results, right. 545 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,960 And so we often, when we're trying to make a change in our 546 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,240 life, like, hey, if I have a health goal and I want to lose 547 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,640 some weight or I want to be able to lift a certain manner, I want 548 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,960 to run a race at a certain pace or whatever, that is, right? 549 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,880 Our natural tendency is to prescribe, OK, what are all the 550 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,280 things we need to do differently, right? 551 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,560 I'm gonna need to go on this diet or I need to do this 552 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,480 particular training program or whatever that is, right? 553 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,520 And those are good things to do, Like we need to take actions 554 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,400 like that. But you know, we're coming up on 555 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,240 a new year heading into 2024 here pretty soon. 556 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,680 And you know, the data on like New Year's resolutions isn't 557 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,760 very good. It's like I think less than 10% 558 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,480 of people follow through on resolutions. 559 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,040 And why is that? I think is because we only are 560 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,720 looking at the behaviors that we want to do and not thinking 561 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,000 about our mindsets and our beliefs about ourselves as we 562 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,200 enter into that. Because what we believe about 563 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,520 ourselves and the world and the people around us, our mindsets, 564 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,840 Dr., those actions. And so I say mindset fuels 565 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,160 behavior and behavior fuels results, right. 566 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,120 And so probably the most common mindset that most people would 567 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,880 be familiar with is the growth mindset versus a fixed mindset 568 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,560 popularized by Carol Dweck, famous Ted Talk, and a book 569 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,000 called Mindset. So just this idea like, hey, do 570 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,840 I think I'm fixed? And do I think other people are 571 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,360 fixed? Like, this is who I am and this 572 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,240 is who I'm always going to be. If so, then that's going to 573 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,080 compress my view of what's possible, right, and compress 574 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,480 the actions that I might take or not take, because I don't think 575 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,800 I can really change and grow in significant ways. 576 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,920 But if instead I look at for the growth, I'm going to take some 577 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,080 of those risks, I'm going to see the opportunity for growth in 578 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,400 those, whether or not the outcome I was looking for 579 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,720 happens. I can see that I am changing. 580 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,440 I am growing, I am becoming who I want to become. 581 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,160 And I can expect that of you, Henry, or anyone else that I'm 582 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,960 talking to. I can see that in my children. 583 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,480 I can see that in my spouse. I can see that in the people in 584 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,280 my community and those that I work with, right. 585 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,480 When I can see they have the opportunity, the potential to 586 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,080 grow well, that changes how I focus on my own growth. 587 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,200 It also changes the expectations and the view I have of other 588 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,720 people in really significant ways as well. 589 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,080 But if I'm fixed, you know, I'm going to really compress that. 590 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,160 And so there's a whole lot that goes into how do we identify 591 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,200 what are those mindsets that might be holding us back. 592 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,680 There's some suggestions in the book on how to do that and to 593 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,760 almost use the scientific method to say, hey, I have assumptions 594 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,560 or beliefs or mindsets that I'm holding on to right now. 595 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,240 Can I move through scientific method, run experiments to 596 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,960 collect data to prove or disprove that belief that might 597 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,680 not be serving me right now? And if I can show what data 598 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,400 engineers are going to like this, that's not true, that 599 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,600 starts to diminish that belief and that mindset's power over me 600 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,800 because I can see the evidence right? 601 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,600 And we do that over and over again. 602 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,280 And then we start to change in more meaningful ways. 603 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400 And not just the actions are changing, but that more 604 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,040 fundamental mindset and our thinking patterns changes as 605 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,280 well, and more sustainable ways. Yeah, like you mentioned about 606 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,840 experiments, right. So I think what some called also 607 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,320 scientific method or hypothesis driven, right. 608 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,200 I think that is really crucial if you want to change mindset. 609 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,920 I don't think we can just totally change it overnight, 610 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,400 right. So we have to go through certain 611 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,240 steps, especially the limiting beliefs that we have, right, the 612 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,720 limiting mindset. So that normally takes time. 613 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,440 That takes a lot of evidence as well. 614 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,520 Like we show we prove that actually it doesn't work as what 615 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,680 we thought and then maybe we can start changing our mindset 616 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,560 slowly. And I love the way that you 617 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,160 mentioned about mindset actually feels behavior and also feels 618 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,840 the results right. But many people actually starts 619 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,360 from the behaviors first. Like we think that let's say we 620 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,480 want to get fit, right, we just do the activities and afterwards 621 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,600 we can get fit right. But I think like just what James 622 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,160 Clear mentioned as well, right, We need to start from our 623 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,440 identity or mindset in your case and then those will kind of like 624 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,040 power of habit and then change our results as a result of that. 625 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,880 I think that's really powerful. And that's a beautiful way to 626 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,640 look at it, right? Because this identity and and 627 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,080 the cool thing about embracing that identity piece is like, 628 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,760 that's what's really true about us. 629 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,680 Like that's what's true about who we are and our potential, 630 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,000 right? Instead of only focusing on 631 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,760 looking at the past and what we've done in the past, right. 632 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,840 But we start to embrace the truth because that those 633 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,640 limiting beliefs are untruths, right? 634 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,800 And so it's almost the idea that the truth shall set you free. 635 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,880 When we can embrace the truth about ourselves and that 636 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,080 potential that we have to grow and become and embrace those 637 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,160 identities, and we act from that place and beautiful things 638 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,240 happen. Yeah. 639 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,600 Apart from the growth mindset that you mentioned in the book, 640 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,760 I find that the other mindset that you mentioned are the 641 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,960 outward mindset versus the inward mindset. 642 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,600 I think that's also important for you to share maybe the 643 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,400 audience. Yeah, Learning about this 644 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,120 mindset was actually kind of my first foray into really digging 645 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,440 into mindsets. I was teaching workshops on this 646 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,280 topic that comes from work of the Arbinger Institute, which is 647 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,440 a leadership and culture firm based out of Utah. 648 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,840 And we've got a number of books that people can go check out. 649 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,720 And it was life changing for me years ago. 650 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,120 This was 2017 when I was first introduced to it. 651 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,600 Of all the mindsets that I'm aware of, you can look at a 652 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,840 number of them. This is the one that's most kind 653 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,560 of personal relationship driven and how I see other people, 654 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,760 right? So just to characterize it very 655 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,640 quickly, if I have and when I have an inward mindset, I see 656 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,760 other people that I interact with as objects. 657 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,640 I objectify them and that doesn't usually happen in great 658 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,560 ways, but I can see them as like vehicles, just like, hey, they 659 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,520 are the path for me to accomplish my goals and I just 660 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,080 need to use them right. I can see them as obstacles in 661 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,639 my way that I need to get them out of the way or kind of 662 00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,199 irrelevancies. Like I don't care about them, I 663 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,080 just, I'm going to dismiss them and what not. 664 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,120 None of those ways are helpful with how we view the fellow 665 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:29,719 humans on this walk of life, right? 666 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,760 And it usually doesn't tend towards great collaboration, 667 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,080 innovation and things in an organization or team either in 668 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,520 the workplace. And so if instead we can embrace 669 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,000 the outward mindset to get outside of ourselves and see, 670 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:48,880 OK, what do others care about and need and what are their 671 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,480 challenges and opportunities that they're focused on. 672 00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,800 That doesn't mean I need to put others before me at every stage. 673 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,960 But I can take those into account and seek to understand 674 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,280 where they're coming from and what they care about. 675 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,600 And take that into account with the actions that I take and the 676 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,440 ways that I focus on which really improves that that 677 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,160 collaboration and innovation and the quality of those 678 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,480 relationships that we have. Because then they can sense, you 679 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,880 know we can all sense if people are just using US or or trying 680 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,880 to get us out of the way versus do they really care about us. 681 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,240 So we can invite that and other people as we attempt to take 682 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,680 that approach. And we've probably all had the 683 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,520 experience where a leader that we've really cared about or a Co 684 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,360 worker who was been really great to us has really given us that 685 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,800 feeling that they really care about us and that invites us to 686 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,480 kind of reciprocate that with them as well. 687 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,520 And so this is life changing. I had one client in particular 688 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,560 who worked on this and he's like, hey, I'm making these 689 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,560 changes. I haven't even thought about 690 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,120 this. I'm just like coming to work and 691 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,240 just doing my work and put my head down, he said. 692 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,520 I feel like I'm becoming a better human and that was a cool 693 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,320 experience for someone to say that because that's a it's a 694 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,640 beautiful thing, Absolutely. I want us all to think about how 695 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,640 can we be better humans on this planet. 696 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,680 Yeah, I find that really interesting, especially as you 697 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,000 get more intentional, right, in your, you know, your decisions 698 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,840 and being who you are, right. To get actually more motivated 699 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,520 by the outward things, right. The people that you mentioned. 700 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,920 Because there's just so many things that can get better if we 701 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,560 work together with other people, right. 702 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,200 Especially if you're in leadership, right? 703 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,200 Like people call this like servant leadership Or I also 704 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,320 have your friend as well, Ryan Gottfriedson, right. 705 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,880 So he has this topic, vertical development, where leaders have 706 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,760 to think more about others. So I think all these are kind of 707 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,960 like aligned together. And I really like this concept, 708 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,800 especially for leaders as well, right, Because you need to start 709 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,800 thinking about other people, not just about yourself. 710 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,600 Absolutely. So let's move on. 711 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,040 After we identify our core values, we change our kind of 712 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,240 like our mindset slowly, right? The next thing, if you say that 713 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,040 we want to become intentional is to get career clarity. 714 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,720 Maybe we have discussed a little bit why it is important, but 715 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:00,840 maybe if you can get a gist like why do we need to get career 716 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,640 clarity to become more intentional? 717 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,160 Yeah. So I mean, they go hand in hand, 718 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,120 the idea of getting clarity and being intentional, because 719 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,000 getting clarity is like getting clear on what you want to be 720 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,320 when you grow up and the things that you care about in your 721 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,640 career as it aligns with your life. 722 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,080 I mean, intentional is deciding to do that, but it's not just 723 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,480 what you want, but it's why you want it, right. 724 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,160 So also tapping into those deeper levels of motivation that 725 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,080 are driving the actions and the things that we care about. 726 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,680 So just some of the ideas around this couple metaphors that I 727 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,240 think are helpful. One is to think about career 728 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,280 clarity. It's not like this magical 729 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,040 treasure map where, hey, here's my goal. 730 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,520 X marks the spot, right? And I just need to follow the 731 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,240 map and I'm going to get there. But like, one way is to think of 732 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,440 like a North Star, like a guiding light that you know 733 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,400 doesn't really change much but can guide us. 734 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,320 Our directions, our paths may be a little bit windy, and that's 735 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:54,520 fine. Like, things are going to 736 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:55,680 change. It's not just going to be a 737 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,560 straight linear path. We get exactly to where we want 738 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,000 to, but we can always see that light that's unchanging. 739 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:05,240 And as we make decisions, hey, is that leading me towards that 740 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,120 direction? Cuz the opportunities and 741 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,360 challenges are gonna come. We can't foresee all that, 742 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,320 right? But having that light as a guide 743 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,200 and the other thing is to have a set of filters, right? 744 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,720 So as we make decisions, whether those core values and the other 745 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:20,240 things that we care about from a career standpoint for some 746 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,080 people like where do you want to live and remote or in person 747 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,040 work or the type of role that you really like to do or do you 748 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,960 want to travel or not? Is it more focused on product or 749 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,280 people or the technology and like all those different mixed 750 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,200 thing. And some of those things will 751 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,280 change. But over time, we can get clear 752 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,080 on those things that we can use those as filters to say, hey, 753 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,560 that's not really in line with the things that are important to 754 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,600 me in my career at this point that are going to help me take 755 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,880 the next level of growth I can use as a filter, say, hey, does 756 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,280 that meet the criteria? No, let's let that stop. 757 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,520 And I don't need to consider that anymore and if it does, 758 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,880 then let's continue to explore that or design with intention 759 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,960 towards that. And so couple different ways of 760 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,360 guiding light or the filter. But again, it's all trying to 761 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,080 help us be intentional with the decisions that we make at each 762 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,480 stage of our lives and their careers. 763 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,000 Yeah. Again, I don't not to repeat, 764 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,160 right, but I think career is like where we spend most of our 765 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,080 days, right? Our life in fact. 766 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,000 So I think the thing that you mentioned right, we should 767 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,840 decide what we want, but also why we want it, right? 768 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,520 Because sometimes when given career opportunities, sometimes 769 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,080 like we can't just choose like, OK, we want all the career 770 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,200 opportunities we want, right. They are kind of like limited 771 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,800 and it's contextual and time based as well, right. 772 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,880 So sometimes getting career clarity will help us guide in 773 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,880 making those career decisions that we want to take. 774 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,880 And it doesn't have to be, you know, changing company, right? 775 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,320 But it also can be changing roles or changing skill sets, 776 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,280 changing experience or maybe changing mentors as well, right? 777 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,400 So I think getting this clarity really important if you want to 778 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,160 be more intentional. Absolutely. 779 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,120 Yeah, as part of this career clarity as well, you also 780 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,480 advocate people to find their genius zones or identify the 781 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,440 genius zones. We kind of like covered it 782 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,280 before in the previous episode, but I think I'd like you to also 783 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,680 maybe kind of like repeat. What do you mean by genius 784 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,840 zones? How can people find them? 785 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,880 Yeah, so this is a really exciting topic for me, too. 786 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,720 If I was to recommend one book on the subject, it'd be The Big 787 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,600 Leap by Gay Hendrix. But it's just like these 788 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,360 different levels, right? So we think about a zone of 789 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,520 incompetence, like, hey, I'm not very good at something, and next 790 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,440 level, a zone of competence. Like, hey, I can do this and I 791 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,840 can do this breathably well. And then a lot of us get to a 792 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,080 Zone of Excellence, like, hey, and really, quite good at this. 793 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,960 But a Genius Zone is something that's even one more level of 794 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,720 uniqueness where perhaps I'm one of the few people in the world 795 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:50,880 that do it this way. And it's a combination of 796 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,320 perhaps innate skills or traits about us, experiences that we've 797 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,880 had and skills that we've built over the course of our life and 798 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,960 career. And when you, when you look at 799 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,800 that that way, then diving into our Genius zones and if we can 800 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,880 live more of our lives there, we think about like the 8020 801 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,760 principle, like Genius zone work is absolutely that 20% that 802 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,440 provides the biggest level of result because that's where 803 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,920 we're living our where we're doing our best work. 804 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,760 It's not just where we are most productive and where we have the 805 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,800 most impact, but also where we find the most satisfaction and 806 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,160 enjoyment and engagement in our work. 807 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,760 It's really fun to be living in a genius zone because it's 808 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,240 synonymous with being in the zone or being in a state of 809 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,600 flow, usually. And where a level of skill rises 810 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,560 to the challenge that is there from research. 811 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,080 Flow comes from research by the guy by the name of me, Holly. 812 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,680 Chic set me Holly. If I'm pronouncing that right, 813 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,840 we passed away a year or two ago. 814 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,600 But anyway, but just the idea like, hey, where can I do my 815 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,680 absolute best work? Can I find ways to identify 816 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,920 that? What is it about that that let's 817 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,280 me do that? Is it the environment? 818 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:04,000 Is it the work itself? Is the people you know getting 819 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,200 clarity on that? And then can I find ways to be 820 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,720 in that more often? Can I shift some of the ways 821 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:14,040 that I work now in my environment, look for 822 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,480 opportunity to take on projects or other things in my current 823 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,440 work or find a role that aligns with that even more to produce 824 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,080 more impact, to be more intentional, you're going to be 825 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,080 more engaged and all those other things that we're looking for. 826 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,360 Yeah, the genius zones you mentioned, right? 827 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,440 It could be a combination of talent, experience, skill sets 828 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,800 that we learn along the way, right? 829 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,560 The true insights that I find when I read this part is 830 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,840 actually to find the activities or the skill set or the job that 831 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,240 kind of like brings you into the state of flow, right? 832 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,720 Where people say that you completely lose track of time, 833 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,960 right? You just feel that you are more 834 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,520 energized, more results, more productivity. 835 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,400 But I find that not many people actually experience this kind of 836 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,440 flow in their day-to-day work. Maybe not so much also about the 837 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,640 work itself, but also about disruption, maybe also about 838 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,120 business, right? Maybe also about the bosses that 839 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,000 they work with. So is there a way to actually 840 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,080 kind of like help people align more with their genius zones 841 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:15,480 without being affected by all these things? 842 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,640 Yeah. So I mean, the first thing, 843 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,920 obviously is identifying what those genius zones are like. 844 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,040 How do you get in a state of flow? 845 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,240 So reflecting on when have you ever been in that state? 846 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,080 And that can be in a work setting, but maybe it's in a 847 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,480 personal life. You've got a hobby or a sport 848 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,800 for some people playing music or whatever that is. 849 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,200 Like, where are you in a state of flow and looking at what is 850 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:39,920 the environment that creates that? 851 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,360 For some people, it's being around people, for some people 852 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,000 it's sharing that with other people. 853 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,480 For some people, it's an alone, singular experience. 854 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,760 And by the way, we want to find those places inside and outside 855 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,640 of our work experience. Like I was talking to a client 856 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,520 the other day. Like, hey, he really loves 857 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,440 riding motorcycles, right? And riding a motorcycle and on 858 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,440 curvy roads is this great example of him having to be 859 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,440 fully present in the moment. And he loves it because he can't 860 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,360 get distracted by other things around him. 861 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,400 He has to do that otherwise there's a safety factor there, 862 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,360 right. And that's outside of his work. 863 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,920 But he sees some of the ways that that corresponds with some 864 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,920 of the ways that he works like hey, how can I get fully present 865 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,120 in some of the things. And he looks at you know 866 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,720 opportunities and situations where he is has big challenge 867 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:34,800 that challenges that he rises to and he's an experienced and 868 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,720 accomplished leader. And so he loves to bring people 869 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,360 along that ride and find those cross functional relationships 870 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,080 and bring people together towards creating something new. 871 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,640 Not just maintaining something that gets him in a state of 872 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,000 excitement, passion driven, taking on a challenge that 873 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,600 excites him rather than discourages him. 874 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,040 And so he's able to find ways to do that. 875 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,160 Now he also finds ways to communicate with his leaders and 876 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,480 the other team members about how he organizes his work to do that 877 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,440 best. So he's not in constant 878 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,000 interruptions, you know, need to turn off notifications and 879 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,480 things and set some boundaries in your personal, professional 880 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,840 life. All those things that helps you 881 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,280 live that. But no one can take 882 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,840 responsibility for that more than you can right now. 883 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,040 We all need to own our our own approach to these things. 884 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,280 Yeah. So I think environment you 885 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,880 mentioned, it's really critical as well try to shape your 886 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600 environment such that you can also get this state of flow 887 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,320 right, could be you know, turning off notifications, 888 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,160 setting up deep work in your schedule and things like that. 889 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,000 So definitely that would help as well. 890 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,680 So after we done all this, right, I think you also 891 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,920 mentioned as part of the last chapter in your book a few 892 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,240 skills that we have to probably kind of like hone as well in 893 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:51,920 order to become more intentional. 894 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,320 Maybe if you can cover just one or two. 895 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,080 What are the important skills that we also need to be aware of 896 00:45:57,240 --> 00:45:59,120 to become much better intentional? 897 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,080 Yeah. So the last chapter is a little 898 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,920 different than the rest and then focused on skills rather than 899 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,640 kind of big principles. But two that I'll focus on 900 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,880 because I think they're most related, one is communication. 901 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,280 Communication is kind of an art and how we communicate with 902 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,800 people and not just the words that we say, but we're talking 903 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,040 about mindsets earlier. But the way that we believe 904 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,720 about other people has a huge impact on the results and how 905 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,680 we're going to be able to work with people. 906 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,000 And that's critical at any stage of your career, right? 907 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,720 I'm going to communicate differently with someone in a 908 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,680 different role, with someone in a different level. 909 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,360 I'm going to communicate differently with an executive 910 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,120 that I'm not peer right and understanding how to 911 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,960 contextually communicate the right things and the right 912 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,600 moment in the right way is very important and not 913 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,040 all-encompassing in the book, but just more of a call to say, 914 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,320 hey, this is something that's important for you to learn and 915 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,640 grow and and improve on. Now the other thing as far as 916 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,600 like hey, we're not just trying to build intentional careers, 917 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,160 you're trying to build intentional lives. 918 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,120 And the research bears out that the most important by far 919 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,520 indicator of someone having a satisfactory or satisfying life 920 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,720 is the quality of their relationships and increases 921 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:17,280 health outcomes, increases joy, happiness, satisfaction, all 922 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,440 those things is a quality of relationships. 923 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,000 And it's not just like romantic relationship, it's friendships, 924 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,880 it's Co workers, it's family, it's neighbors, it's everything. 925 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,160 And so to live a great life we need to deepen, strengthen and 926 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,440 develop core relationships in our lives. 927 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,400 And doing so, it's going to help us become who we want to become. 928 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,640 And those best friendships are the ones that you know to think 929 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,400 about the things that we don't need to get anything out of 930 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,120 someone, that they're just there to be friends and we just care 931 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,280 about them for the sake of enjoying their company. 932 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,360 And so, do you have relationships like that right 933 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,200 now? If so, almost as much as 934 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,360 anything else is important to try and find those people that 935 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,200 you want to spend some time with, and cultivate those 936 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,240 relationships in meaningful ways. 937 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:06,320 Really beautiful, the way that you mention it, right? 938 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,040 Like relationship, don't forget. Like being intentional doesn't 939 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,680 mean all about you, right? But also like finding the 940 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,960 meaningful true relationship that you also want to have in 941 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,480 your life, right? Not just the peers in your 942 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,760 colleagues in your company, right? 943 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,160 But also like friends outside of work and also in your family, 944 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,960 right? I think that's really important. 945 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,920 Apart from communication and relationship, you also mentioned 946 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,520 about power of accountability and also giving feedback. 947 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,880 I suggest people to read themselves in the book because I 948 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,080 think All in all right, the book covers like how we can become 949 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,280 much more intentional and truly at the end, right, become more 950 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,080 fulfilled and happy in our life. So I think please check out the 951 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,680 book by Jeff. So as we reach the end of our 952 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,440 conversation, Jeff, I asked you this question last time, which I 953 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,240 called the three technical leadership wisdom. 954 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,280 I will ask you one more time, let's see if you can get the 955 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,080 same answer like previously or you kind of like change a little 956 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,480 bit with your new book as well. Yeah, it's probably different. 957 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,840 I don't know what I said last time. 958 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,480 I didn't go back and review it. But here's what I'll say today, 959 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,440 #1 here. We've been harping on this. 960 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,440 Our whole conversation is to be intentional. 961 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,680 You get to decide who you want to become in your life and your 962 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,480 career. No one else does. 963 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,120 And so take that opportunity to decide. 964 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,080 Take the actions to become who you want to become #2 is. 965 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,360 Don't try and go it alone, right? 966 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,440 We need to embrace those relationships, get help from 967 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,400 others. Life is not meant to be a 968 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,040 solitary experience, right? So embrace those professional 969 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,040 and those personal relationships that can help us enjoy a great 970 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,680 life and also that can support us through the good times and 971 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,840 the bad times that that will go through life to live the life we 972 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,440 want to live. And three is find ways to invest 973 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,400 in yourself. When you think about finances, 974 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,720 usually we're talking about what's the investment, what's my 975 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:51,320 return on investment, all these things, Absolutely. 976 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,880 The best investment you can ever make is an investment in you, 977 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,720 and that can be investment in time. 978 00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:00,840 That can be investment in money to get help or resources that 979 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,480 can help you become who you want to become in these ways in 980 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,920 education and coaching, mentoring, or other programs or 981 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,680 other things that might be helpful for you, but absolutely 982 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,480 investing yourself in intentional ways. 983 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,760 Lovely. I think you kind of like recap 984 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,160 the whole thing about being intentional engineer, right. 985 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,040 So I think thanks again, Jeff, for being on this show and also 986 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,160 share about your new book. So I read the book as well as 987 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,600 preparation for this podcast. I find it really interesting. 988 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,360 I also wrote the foreword for the book. 989 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,000 Thanks for giving me the opportunity. 990 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:33,400 So I think I'll just ask people to go check it out and read the 991 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,520 books, which I find really, really useful. 992 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,160 So thanks again, Jeff for being here. 993 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,720 Yeah, thanks so much for your support, Henry. 994 00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:42,680 And if people want to go learn more, they can find me at 995 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,840 jeff-perry.com or go find more information on the book at the 996 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:53,120 Intentional engineer.com. Thank you for listening to this 997 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,520 episode and for staying right until the end. 998 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,040 If you highly enjoyed it, I would appreciate if you share it 999 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,040 with your friends and colleagues who you think would also benefit 1000 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,800 from listening to this episode. And if you're new to the 1001 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,840 podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave me your valuable 1002 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,840 review and feedback. It helps me a lot in order to 1003 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,120 grow this podcast better. You can also find the full show 1004 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,960 notes of this conversation on the episode page at 1005 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,440 techlitjournal dot dev website, including the full transcript, 1006 00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:24,320 interesting quotes, and links to the resources mentioned from the 1007 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,160 conversation. And lastly, make sure to 1008 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,160 subscribe to the show's mailing list on techlitjournal dot dev 1009 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,960 to get notified for any future episodes. 1010 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,040 Stay tuned for the next Techly Journal episode, and until then, 1011 00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:37,760 goodbye.