So the the friends, because I've been on a little bit of a crash
out right now. So they came over because they
call me every day and they're like, hey, how are you?
I'm like, not well, I'm in a crash out.
Right. Terrible.
Should I come over? No, no, leave me to my devices,
right? And so today I think they just
had enough. And there's a I guess as
lesbians do, there was a lesbian clothing swap around the corner
from my house, yes. Of course, but thanks my
sister's house. Yeah, and so there were like
just 8 lesbians that stormed my house and I was not informed of
this, that they were coming over.
I was having a tequila shot at the time by myself.
That's right, you know, you need people to show up.
By myself. And they were like, hey, we're
here. I was like, get out.
I was like, you're not supposed to.
Be here to hide the evidence you're not.
No, no, I'm not like that. I'm absolutely going to tell you
the truth. I am flaps out.
That's how I am. You guys know like and they came
over and I was like, I was just about to have a tequila shot.
You shouldn't be here. This is for me.
And then they were like, yeah, we'll have one with you.
That's friendship, that's girlhood, that's.
It is, yeah. So we all had tequila shots.
I wonder they came back drunk. I was like what are these
fuckers doing? They all stormed the into.
My place in a crash out. It's not going to be.
I don't want to. Go next time invite me first of
all. But they came in and they were
like, yeah, this all makes sense now.
Thank you for clearing it up. Yeah, so that's how this episode
is starting. Yes, it's going to be great.
Yeah. Welcome you guys to Wrong Sauce
today. OK, ready.
We're going to, we're going to dial in.
All right, dial in, dial in, lock in back.
In I haven't been so good at the intros lately, but I really want
to get back into my. I feel.
You're my joy. Yeah.
Come on, Queen. OK everybody welcome the most
amazing, epic and talented musician we have today, Rachel
Bulkner. If you guys haven't heard the
musical stylings of this sweet goddess, you need to get in
tune. Get in the know, get inside her
mind and her vocal stylings. Everybody please welcome Rachel
Bochner to the program. Wrong sauce.
Thank. You so much for having me.
I don't know that anyone needs to get inside of my mind.
That's a little bit of a scary place.
We plan on it, OK. We plan on diving deep into your
mind because you write about these things.
You write about situation ships. As one does lover girl.
Moments. Mental Health.
That's the mind we're used to, and we would like to understand
how yours work specifically. Oh wow, yeah.
You just are coming off of a tour.
You're here because you're doing a tour, yes.
So my number one question only because you live the life that
I'm sure millions want to live. You're a touring musician.
Do you get brassieres sent to you?
Do you get DMS? Like what is the life of a
touring lesbian musician that is open for business?
If you are, I don't know I. Am not but.
OK, but. To enter.
Another one bites the dust. But it's definitely a lot of
fun. I love, I love being on tour.
I have toured a lot, like as support for artists.
So I feel like who I'm opening for will often like dictate the
overall like vibe. Last summer I was opening for
this artist who's also my friend named Dick Zanna, and she's also
a queer pop artist. Did she do Dinah?
This year, yeah, she did. I thought maybe you wanted to
have sex with her. That's where I only.
Got to. Yeah, probably.
OK, sorry. Wouldn't be surprised.
But like 2 queer artists, you know, the vibe of that tour was
very fair. Horny and horny, Yeah.
It was horny. Yeah, and like that show, I
definitely had like a bra thrown at me, which was, you know,
every I think that's every girl's dream is to have a bra
thrown at her. Did you frame it?
No, but I should have. I should have.
I'm like very tight B so I probably lost it but so if you
threw me that bra, I'm so sorry. Throw me another one and I will
keep it this time. Beautiful, but.
Single at that time. No.
But it's all in good fun.
I feel like, yeah, I don't know. I think it's, it's not like it's
not so serious. It feels like girls and and
lesbians like having fun and and expressing themselves and it
doesn't necessarily feel like an actual like proposition, you
know? Until it does, it's just silly
platonic fun for you and I. I did flash Youngblood at his
tour in LA and it went super viral.
Then it started a flashing like epidemic.
Everyone after that video went viral, everyone during the
specific song of people going on, people's shoulders flashed
Youngblood. And so it became like a whole
thing. And I was like, I think I
started a revolution. Yeah, whatever you are.
Yeah, you're an innovator. Thank you, exactly, that's how I
felt and I'm sure that's how the woman that sent you her pursuit.
I also felt yes, no for sure. But yeah, I don't know.
It's it's like I haven't had too many crazy things happen yet,
but hopefully that changes because I feel like the crazier
things that happen to you, it's like directly correlates like
how big you are and, and like how big of a deal I guess people
think you are. So hopefully the next time we
talk, I'll be like, I have, you know, the girls are lining up.
How do you navigate that type of frothing for you when you what
what? I love you so much.
Frothing. It's a visceral word, but it's
a. Very, I'm very like, you have to
paint a picture, you know, And so I picture like the actual
froth coming out of ladies mouths for you because there's
an aura when somebody goes up and they're actually talented,
which you are, and does their thing on stage.
You can be overcome with just this gravitational pull towards
somebody. So I imagine that your fans have
this and so how do you navigate that type of frothing for you
when you have a partner? Delicately because you never
want, you never want to like cross any boundaries.
First of all, OK, actually, I'll tell a story.
So I, I've had like 2 moments on the Internet that feel like
hopefully as close to like being cancelled as I'll ever get.
But the, the one that I'll talk about first was this video that
I posted from a show last summer where my partner was there and
we were like, wait, wouldn't it be so funny if like you came up
to the front of the audience and like at the end of one of the
songs, I was like, are we going to kiss?
And then like, we made out, you know, it was pride month.
It's a bunch of lesbians at the show.
It was like, they're going to eat that up.
They're going to love it. So we did that and it was really
cute and and everybody like it was just like fun.
And then I posted a video of it and it went like super viral on
Instagram and TikTok, but most of of like the the negative shit
was on Instagram and. As it tends to be.
Yeah, people on reels are out of control.
So comments are crazy in a way that's like, very creative.
Like, it's impressive. Like, wow.
So it was my partner who was, you know, around my age and, and
literally consented to this, this kiss and whatever.
But people were like, that was a 14 year old boy.
And I was like, first of all, why would a why would a boy be
there? Second of all, no.
So that was kind of crazy. But then also, like, people will
comment sometimes, like if I come to the front row of your
show, like, will you kiss me now?
And I'm like, no babe, but you should still count.
I only say I'll fuck a fan. I'm sorry I am literally dating
my. Girlfriend and she watched the
show that I was on. She was a fan.
Beautiful. I'm fucking a fan.
I'm currently doing it. I'm going to marry her.
Too 2 consenting adults, but I love that shit.
It really drives me because the in cells that are in the
comments really do drive engagement and I love it.
We have a current clip that is saying that men don't deserve
rights and they belong in jail to start off with.
That's going wild on the Internet right now.
Oh my God. And the men in cells are just
oh, it's outrageous. But like, these are the things
that really push these clips. Clips are these individuals that
are angered by you making out with your 14 year old boy,
right? That is wild though.
What was the other one? Yeah.
God, I mean, the other one was kind of an example of like just
homophobia, like and people being, you know, nasty.
But I did a cover of a Taylor Swift song, Guilty as Sin.
That's OK. And I know, I know, I know.
But I, I love that song. And it's like, as a queer person
listening to that song, like for me, it hit so much harder if I
was like looking at it through a queer lens.
And so at like a random show, I just did a cover of it and I
changed the pronouns and posted it on Twitter and was just like
being like silly goofy about it because it was like, I did that
for me and for the people who were at that one show.
And then it just snowballed into into like the, the Swifties
versus the Gaylors versus the people who like are just like,
girl, this was a this was a cover.
This didn't, this was not like anything deeper than a queer
artist, like making a song queer, you know?
So if you want some entertainment, you can go look
at that original video and look at the quote retweets and you'll
see some wild things. Everyone go look.
Everyone go look and how do you react to these types of comments
that are like left on your post? Are you affected?
Do you care? Do you not care?
Are you like this is great, you care?
I care embarrassing an embarrassing amount.
And it's like I try to pretend I don't, but I I really do.
I get fired up. I don't know.
I'm I'm a defense that's. Fair, No, I mean I think I care
a lot about, you know, like the music that I'm making.
And so I guess by extension like my like persona that is on, I
don't know, like the public facing persona.
So I, I never want to like be misunderstood as like saying or
doing something that is like offensive or whatever, but not
that I'm that's happening. But I don't know.
I think that I'm, I'm less bothered by those comments
because I know that they're just like fueled by, by like
ignorance and, and people just having way too much time on
their hands on the Internet. Also, I'm a middle child and I
have four sisters so I feel like I'm immune to like getting my
feelings hurt in a lot of ways. Probably.
Oh yeah, I can't imagine that's a.
Lot of sisters. It's a lot of sisters and I love
my sister so much, but growing up, yeah, it was like it was a
war zone for sure. A lot of like psychological
warfare that goes on in. In a sister.
Nothing like growing up with psychological terrorists.
Yeah. Women right in a household.
Yeah, and you're all in your period on the same time.
Oh. My God, lesbian relationships
too. Your sisters only because I know
her family history so and and it's interesting because she
grew up around all gays, I would say.
Yeah, both my sisters are lesbians.
Okay? Yes, as well as myself.
That's so beautiful. Were your sister's psychological
warfare? My sisters are different than
the average people. That's the thing.
They're sweet people. Lauren's autistic and absolutely
wonderful and kind and the other one and Lily's just a different
kind of person. She's literally amazing.
There's nothing wrong with OK. She would never be me.
Grew up around psychology. I was.
The only one that was psychologically terrorizing it.
OK, so you were the OK. I was the one with scream
singing and then my sister being like mommy, like she's singing
too loud. I'm like, I wasn't.
They're lying. See that is that feels my.
Wonderful. Oh, that was pretty much all I
did. Yeah.
No, we were pretty amazing, yeah.
That sounds lovely. I'm just empathizing, yeah.
When you grow up around women that are out there to, like,
psychologically destroy your life and, you know, familial in
a familial sense, yeah. Yeah, in a way that you love
each other now, kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're fine.
Your family and like, whatever. But like, more like, I'll take
you down, bitch. Yeah.
Like I'll ruin your life in a way that I love you.
Kind of. Yeah, exactly.
Where are you in this?
Where? I'm the dead middle.
So I have two older sisters, 2 younger sisters.
So so yeah, I mean, I was both like traumatized and the
traumatizer. OK, we learned from our abusers.
Yeah. Yeah, we got to break the cycle,
of course. Are any of them gay?
One of my sisters is queer, so we're 2 for five.
Oh, that's good. So it's not bad.
Yeah. And she actually came out before
me. I came out like late.
Well, late. I guess it's all relative.
What's late for you? For me, I was 23 when I realized
that I was not straight. But then it was like kind of a
long process of like the straight to bisexual to lesbian
pipeline. Were you pre or post lick when
you knew? So I call it pre or post lick.
Like did you know before you licked A muff or after you
licked a muff? That was really beautifully put.
Thank you so much. You are very descriptive and and
yeah, I appreciate that creative.
Visual. Yeah, I mean as as a songwriter,
I really, I, I love that pre. Pre lick?
Yeah, Pre lick. So when I realized that I was
not straight, it was like COVID. So there was nothing to be done
other than sit with your thoughts and like and think and
and spiral and be like wait, I'm 23 years old and I am like, not
straight. Would you fantasize about it?
So what I think was really confusing for me is that like, I
look back on, you know, like middle school, like early high
school where I feel like a lot of people have those like
classic moments where you're like the homoerotic friendship
that, you know, like ended up in some explosive fight or
whatever. And I didn't really have any of
that, like, I don't know, those like telltale signs.
So I, it really like hit me like a truck and it was like kind of
a switch, honestly. Like the thought like popped
into my head and then I was like, Oh my God, what?
Was the thought. You don't have to answer, but
I'd love to know. It wasn't really like a a
specific like thought it was honestly the TikTok algorithm
kind of got me. It pushes, yeah.
What was coming up on your algorithm?
Was it like? I feel like it was I just.
Found out about Lundy. I had no idea who this really
is. Yes, I think it was.
I mean I was just like suddenly getting more and more, not even
like videos about like being gay.
It was just like women. Fems or masks?
Both. What is your type by the way?
Yes, good question, Jenna. I love this.
We love this question. So I mean okay, me or tippy.
Well, okay, so I think. There might be a middle.
Because I could present they them.
You seem they them honey. I mean historically I feel like
it's it's just like vibe based mostly but.
Everyone has faith. Then let's say the truth here.
Then I I went on one date with are they them Butch lesbian?
I was smitten and I'm yeah. I love that.
Yeah. What?
Was it about the day that just really tickled your loins?
I OK so first of all, it was the best first date of my life and
it was just like such a beautiful magical evening and it
was so gay it was like crazy how?
Long was it? It was not that long.
It was no, it was, it was not like that, but it was OK.
So we started off. We met at a lesbian bar in
Brooklyn called Mary's that has since closed, which is so sad,
and had like the strongest gin and tonics you could possibly
ever imagine. So strong start.
And then I kissed him at the bar.
Obviously couldn't wait. Who dove first?
Me. How are you feeling?
It was ready. I mean you.
Were. You were feeling like a very.
We're the same kind of. Yeah.
I can feel the energy over here, like tingling.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm literally buzzing
talking about it. Yeah.
But yeah. So then we went to the Aces show
at Brooklyn Steel and just, like, danced our little hearts
out. And then we like walked out of
the venue and they were, they always make fun of me about this
because they were like the sentence that was coming out of
their mouth was like, do you want to like meet my cat?
Because they have this like sweet baby Angel cat named
Junie. They hit you with the pussy.
Right, which is going to get you every single time and every
single time. So yeah, so they make fun of me
because like I thought that I let them like say their whole
sentence and like ask me if I wanted to like come over, but
apparently I like 2 words into that.
I already knew what they were asking and I was like, yes I
will. I want to stroke.
ADHD. I will.
I will be coming over. And then yeah.
And then I went over and the rest is history.
Oh, wait, are you guys together now?
Yeah. Wait, so why did you write?
Why did you just write this amazing, incredible breakup song
then? Wait, was it a breakup song?
Well, OK, of your Manhattan, yes, Yeah.
Well so I put out this EP Lover girl that I basically shout out
lover. Girl go check it out, you guys
love it. Incredible.
And I, I wrote that project kind of over this like year and a
half like era of my life where I was like finally, like, you
know, living my life as a queer person and like finally dating
non men and like figuring all of that out.
So that was like a really transformative and at times
traumatizing like period of my life, but.
Can we talk about that? Yeah, let's do it.
I. Want to get in there?
Sure, let's talk about the trauma.
Everyone has, you know, a story of like, being traumatized by,
like, you know, some sexy, sexy lesbian hot envy who ruins your
life. Like whatever.
Sexy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've heard it's kind of like sexy masks that are ruining
lives. Terror strikes both ways it.
Certainly does. It strikes.
Always humans are terrorists. All of them except for we're.
Human, and hopefully you get better as it goes by.
Yeah, and humans are humans. And if you don't, I pray for
you. Yeah, well, I think for me, like
coming out like later, I you really do kind of go through
like a second puberty and like you're, you're having to learn
how to navigate like relationships kind of from
scratch. Like I was in a relationship
with a man for a very long time. And so I feel like I, I thought
that I, I was so like emotionally mature and like
really knew how to like navigate conflict and whatever.
But then once I kind of had my reckoning with my sexuality and
I and I was like in queer like situation ships or what, or
whatever, like it was, I was like, oh, I have no idea what
the fuck I'm doing. And I'm like causing at like
carnage. And yeah, so sometimes you are
like you, you accidentally are like the traumatizer.
And it's a reawakening. I do believe that it's
interesting the point that you're bringing up because it
does happen again. No matter what life you live,
before you like step into your queer dreams or you know your
queer life, you do have to go through the process of like
relearning once you come out and a whole nother life ensues.
I. Also feel like with men, I mean,
if you're in a relationship with a man, you're always going to be
more emotionally mature than him because he is man.
This is man specifically. But like, it's, it's like it's,
it's easy doing that kind of work as a cakewalk, being like,
oh, we're in a relationship. I'm going to take the toll of
the emotional effort here. I'm going to make things OK
because I'm the woman. I got this.
But like, when you're in a relationship with another woman
who's just as, like, emotionally intelligent in a way as you are,
and you're on this, like, equal playing field, and you're like,
well, I felt this way. And everyone knows therapy words
now. Yeah, all the people know the
therapy words. And some people don't realize
they're very manipulative in their therapy words.
So it's like, it's not as easy as a thing.
Because this is an epidemic, actually.
The connection is like most beautiful thing in the world.
You're like we're on the same wavelength.
We're literally soul connected. Like there's nothing like this.
Our sex is absolutely insane and then you're like but also we
fight for like 7 hours when we fight because we're like.
Pretty higher, yeah. Also, I think I agree and your.
Your expectations are higher, almost.
I feel like the expectations are higher when you engage in a
relationship with a woman because you expect them to be
better and then they are. What's up?
They are, but you have but it's like a different.
Level Actually, the unfortunate truth is some are not Yeah.
And I think that you have to come to grips with that like
some are 100% and they are the most angelic creatures to ever
walk the earth. And it is why I think life is
like. Worth living?
Literally, it is why life is is worth living.
But then you meet like strange creatures, golems of the of the
wild lagoon, and you wonder like precious.
Yeah, you wonder like why? Did I do that?
Like why? I don't know this.
It's a very what do you call it? Like it's a double edged sword.
67. Yeah, 67.
This is a double. Yeah, no 6-7 double. 67.
It's worth it, but it hurts. Yeah, I mean, hopefully you get
to like the promised land it seems like you have.
Yeah. It's just, I think there's like
collateral damage sometimes, like when you're figuring your
shit out and like whether that's in the form of just like
botching, like your first kind of queer relationships or, or
you know what happens when you realize that you are not
straight and you're dating a man, then you have to deal with
that and figure that out. I feel like baby gays get at
least a three-year grace period or at least 2 1/2.
What do you think? I think you get grace in your
20s. I think if you, like, move into
your 30s and you continue to do fuck shit, there's a little bit
of like soul searching that you need to do, like go to therapy.
Yeah. I mean, not listen, healing is
never linear. Healing is never linear.
And sometimes we do step out of ourselves, elapse.
Yeah. Like I used to be very.
I wouldn't say very, but I used to like have some toxic things
that I did in my 20s that if you push me, I can get there.
I try not to. It's a familiar home that I work
so hard to try not to get to. But like, in this lesbian
hellscape, like. But usually I choose right.
Yeah, usually I do. Like I'm not vengeful or
vindictive. She's not, as I believe you.
Like she is, she's actually quite lovely.
And that's the thing, it ruins so many people's lives.
And I choose not to. I always like, fantasize.
That's the thing. I fantasize about causing like
the most havoc. And in the end, I just don't
have the heart to do it. I think that's why being like a
creative is so like good because you have you have an outlet for
that. So yeah, I think maybe that's
why I haven't caused as much like actual like traumatization
because I can just like write a song about it and like get it
out there. And then like maybe in the back
of my mind, I'm like hoping that like whoever it's about like
will hear it and like feel a type of way.
But there's a difference between traumatizing somebody and
seeking vengeance. That's true like.
And let's be really clear, like, I'm not out here to traumatize
anybody, right? I'm just here fantasizing about
vengeance. Just.
Like, like hoping for the petty but not the performing, said
Petty. Right.
No, I always, I always make the right decision, but I often
wonder I'm like, what time is going to be the time that I
choose? To break absolute.
Like that, I just break, yeah. You never know, babes these.
What are some of the things, things that you have done in
this community that per SE, you are not proud of, that you look
back and you're like, that wasn't a shining muffin looking
at me like this because you've done fucked up shit.
Okay, once or four times, it's fine.
We are all human. No, of course.
But that's right, girls, because you could like, talk about
things that you're not proud of and you're like, oh, that wasn't
a shining moment. I've reflected.
I've done better. And like now, I am, you know, a
different individual. Yeah, well, OK, so I'm an
Aquarius Sun and Moon and and Venus.
So there's like a what? There's a lot.
What's. Your big three.
Aquarius, Sun, Moon and Aries. Rising I'm an Aries sun love but
also scary. Yeah, I don't know.
What any of this means? But you're like Aquarius.
Aquarius, Aries. Yeah, so, so I think like.
I just met an Aries. She's a fun time.
Yeah, it's a it's fire. I've been really digging Aries
lately, thank. You.
My 10 year relationship that I tied up to the radiator you.
Were saying. This is not the first time I've
heard you say this sentence. She was in Aries.
Wow, well the heat fire radiator it.
Was a love affair for the ages. It was a love affair for the
ages. Connection.
She felt at home with the fire. Yeah, they mean wait.
So. I think because there's like so
much Aquarius in my chart. Like I did not realize and
honestly until I like got out of that long term relationship and
started dating non men that like I am like textbook avoidant.
And so I think yeah, I think just because of that, like I
just the. One that comes on here is an
avoidant. It's for me, anxious, anxious
Mama. Yeah, yeah.
I just didn't really realize that I am very avoidant and I'm
very like uncomfortable with confronting people when I feel
like I'm going to hurt their feelings.
And so I like try really, really hard to like dance around like
uncomfortable topics, like ending a situation, ship or
whatever it is, like concretely because I like, I just am
uncomfortable and I like feel bad about hurting someone's
feelings. And then I learned that, like
when you're not explicit about certain things, then things get
lost in translation. And then you thought.
Things like what? Like ending like breaking up
with someone, like we're not seeing each other anymore.
And then you think that you have like communicated that and then
you haven't. And then you have to break up
with them like again. Can I can I ask, can I ask a
question? Have you ended a situation ship
and then called them about one or two weeks later to get sex
later? No, I have not.
Wow. Have you China?
Well, I you know what's funny? I don't actually end up in
situationships very often. Situation chips very often.
Yeah. I'm either like, we go on a date
and we forget about it, or we're in a relationship for two years.
Yeah. Well, this is another thing
about like I think Aquarius is like once something is done for
you, like it's done and like like once the feeling changes or
you're kind of over something, then it's like a switch is
slipped, which is like kind of scary it's.
Psychotic. Yeah, Yeah.
No, it's extremely scary. I would never want to date me.
So you say that. Yeah.
What do you think are your red flags?
Of all of the Aquarius in my chart.
OK, which means what? Because I know nothing about
this. Just like the, yeah, the
avoidant tendencies, I think like the way that I deal with my
emotions sometimes is like, I don't and then then later it all
comes back up and you're like, holy shit.
This is like like 5 months of shit that you should have been
like talking about much sooner. But I'm in therapy now, so we're
like working on it. It comes to five months later.
I mean, it'll come up. It'll come up a little, you know
it. It's like a ticking time bomb.
It will come up at some point. So you're like, conflict
avoidant? Yeah, my girlfriend's conflict
avoidant too. Yeah.
She'll hold things in until she's like oops, I resent you
now. Right.
And then, yeah. And everyone's sobbing and it's
like, but then you get, you know, you get through it.
Hopefully you. Hug you kiss.
Yeah, but I would say that also huge red flag about me is that I
am a musician. I would never want to date a
musician. There are brassieres.
Being thrown if you could, yeah, at every city and if you wanted
to mate with four different women, do you have the
opportunity to do that? Rephrase this question for me
when we're done. When you go to a new city as a
touring musician, do you have so many offers that if you wanted
to stack four different women in a day before you get on stage
and have sweet love with them, would you be able to do that?
Could you schedule 4? No, absolutely not.
One, because I am very, very much in love with my butt.
No, I'm saying, would you have the opportunity?
Oh. Honestly, honestly no.
Like I think I like historically have not Like I feel like I'm
not often like blatantly propositioned in this way.
This is what I wonder, yeah. I do I'm like I don't know, I
also get a lot that I like I'm intimidating and and that people
think that I'm I'm like mean before they know me, which is
you're pretty, but like I don't. I don't think that I like look
mean, but apparently I have horrible resting bitch face.
Yeah, I don't know. Eyes you've got like I'm a bad
bitch look where people are afraid of you that's just people
are going to I. Really don't like this by the
way. I don't no, no, no, I love what
you're saying, but I'm saying who cares?
Like if you're scared, but this whole like, you know, premise of
I'm scared so I won't approach. It's so beyond me.
Well, I. Also feel like masks or like if
if we're saying that that's more of our type, like I'm sorry but
fems have to talk to masks first all the time.
And you should we have. To like, y'all won't come up to
us. Y'all don't come up to us
because one, we're hot and you're afraid of us, but also
just like sometimes you don't even think we're gay.
So you just don't even, you don't even like try.
We're usually going up to, you know.
Being gay. Only because I give the look.
I give the I'm gay look like I also wear the I'm gay jewelry.
You walk into a space very clear you're fucking gay as hell have.
An eye proper thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I feel like I don't see the resting bitch face.
But only because you're smiling at the moment.
I feel like you. I don't either, but you know,
everyone that people clock as intimidating or you're too scary
or this and that I always really get along with.
I don't know what that says about me, but I'm not sheepish
about that. I'm like, oh, OK, I love your
energy. There's a certain something that
gravitates me towards you. You know, I always say this
metaphor, some people just don't know how to drive and get behind
the wheel of a Ferrari. Period.
I completely agree and I always say some people.
Just don't know like how to drive those vehicles and that's
OK. But those who are able to learn
the ways of a really great vehicle, then like take.
Me to F1. Exactly.
Take me to F1. We're.
On our way. Side note, I love your I love
your chains today, thank. You so much I wanted to be like
Batty today because I'm like I. Love the Playboy one doing Wait
OK on the topic of Playboy, I yes.
So I made a music video that my partner actually like.
We Co creative directed it and then they directed it, but it
was like a riff on Playboy and we made like play Butch.
And then it was, it's a, the song is called Silver Rings.
And it was, it's basically just like me, like being like,
butches are sexy. Oh my God, wait, I need to see
this immediately. I need this yeah.
And so we we like made the the concept of of the video is
basically like I'm like, am I like little like lesbian, like
dream room and I'm looking, I'm reading playbook and then I'm
like having these fantasies about like the like centerfold.
Oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, I love it.
This is like my fantasy is to have a partner that's actually
supportive and collaborative. Like a creative direction.
Yeah, not like a hater. Having a partner that's not
supportive of you is like that's just like not going to work
ever. It's just not fair.
Also it doesn't make sense like why if you are with someone like
don't you want them to like be happy and succeed and like their
joy should be your joy? Right.
Such a big insecurity. Like, yeah.
Just like. The.
Insecurity. Afraid of me not being as good
as you. Yeah, if my wife was fucking
Taylor Swift, I'd be like, let's go, baby.
I don't care who's more successful, let's just both go
after it. For the yacht.
Gets there first grade. Yeah.
I don't mind retiring, let's just be clear.
Yeah, if you get there first. If you retire me, wonderful, I
will have all of your babies. Literally, I will take care of
the home I will get. Baby Santa time.
Mask like. Wow, OK, that's so cool that you
did that. I love that you can collab with
your partner, it makes for such a strong like union.
Yeah, I think, I mean, it happened very organically.
So I think that that has made it feel just really like fulfilling
when we do work on things together.
And also we like have our brains are like opposite.
So like I can like take the wheel, I guess for certain
things and then other things they will do like such a better
job of like organizing things and and like logistically
planning stuff. Yeah, I'm in type B grow, but
also like just we do different things like I'm obviously like a
a writer and a singer and I like have a lot of like big like
creative visions and then they are also an incredible writer,
like a poet by like. Oh, you fell in love with the
poet I. Know like how was I supposed to
not, you know? Watch you guys on TV for like a
week. I just want to know what this is
like do. You guys like say sonnets to
each other at night, like while you're like staring into each
other's eyes. Wouldn't you love to know?
Oh, OK. I would love to.
Know I would I mean yes, it's just like it's very like
complimentary the way that we work and so I feel like I don't
know it's just I think that my like queerness also has made me
just like a better writer and a better like creative person
because I feel like what I'm sharing just feels so much more
authentic and and visceral. We love the word visceral today.
I love visceral and so then having someone who like the
chemistry is so great. Like just generally being able
to to like collaborate with it. It just like elevates it like so
much. Do you feel like you write
better in pain or in joy? Honestly, I think in in like
pain in times of of like really like emotional kind of like
turmoil or in like the really like giddy like early stages of
things. I feel like it's so easy to
write about that because it's like bubbling out of yeah, it's
literally you're like I. Lesbian crack.
Yeah, but wait. Wait, wait.
So, so how long have you guys been together then?
Because you can you still channel that giddiness.
Yeah, no, for sure. I just think like it's hard.
I think it's like harder to to kind of nail like the nuances of
of a relationship that's like in a more stable place.
And also like no one even wants to like really hear about that.
Like everyone wants to hear about like the crashing out.
Everyone wants to hear about like the horniness, you know, so
you can still channel that for sure.
And I guess that goes back to your question about your
Manhattan. Like I, I wrote that when I was,
you know, stewing upon something that had happened in my past.
And like I had, I mean, OK, it's, it's always very
complicated, of course, but I think like that's.
So crazy. But with that song, I think like
in that particular situation, I felt like when I was in it, I
was like so obsessed with this girl and like, it was.
In a picture envy Mass femme. Yeah.
OK. So it was a.
Femme in the York, yes, OK, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the year was circa. Circa 2023.
Great. OK, keep going.
So. I was just like really obsessed
with this girl and like I felt like once I kind of was out of
that situation, like looking back, I was like, I was like
down so bad. And then I don't know that I was
ever really like getting that energy back.
Like I think I was like bending over backwards to like to see
her to make plans. I was like literally also I was
like baby gay. So at this point, because I like
came out as queer, but I didn't actually like start dating non
men until like a couple years later.
So like I was just so enamored by like the just literally being
gay, like period. Like I was just so happy to be
there. There's.
Nothing more soul crushing when you're a baby gay to be like
having an unrequited like exchange.
Yeah, and I mean, like it was just like I, you know, looking
back, like I feel like I, I knew way too much about like the
other people that like she was seeing and like her like suitors
and stuff because like she would talk about it.
She was a fuck femme. Was she a fuck femme or was she
just the opening community? I mean, we were, we were not
like in an exclusive thing. So like it wasn't like wrong in
any way. Fuck femme would be.
It may not have been exclusive, but it just depends what she
says to you when you're in private.
Because it is. Fuck femme when you're having
relations with somebody and they're literally spinning the
world to you like they're like Oh my God I see us was.
It like that. Sure.
Like, was it love, Bommy, you know?
It wasn't love, Bommy, it was a. Limerance for you.
It was for sure limerance for me and.
Can we define limerance? Because this is like a big topic
right now. Well, I think that's like
limerance is kind of when you have like your rose colored
glasses on and and you're like you're only seeing like the
shiny like beautiful things about someone and also kind of
like like putting some idea of this person like onto them that
is maybe not actually like what is true.
And I think, yeah. Romanticization.
Yeah. Like.
Like they can do nothing wrong and the only thing that you're
focused on is to get them to like you.
Not even their personality. Like I honestly had limerds with
my Co worker that was a man I'm a little by oh.
My God, I remember this Jason Gumbo or what was it?
What? Gary, his name is Gary.
OK sorry I had a limerds with him so bad and then when I got
with my girlfriend I was like. Yeah, Something like this.
The veil is lifted and you're like, oh, wait, actually.
Like I can point out like all these things that actually were
making me feel like very bad. Yes.
And once I removed myself from the situation, then it seemed
like all of a sudden she, like, cared.
And it was like, I don't know if I don't know if you care that
that me, like I am no longer in the picture or that like,
there's not like I'm not taking up this like space of someone
who is giving you like all this attention anymore.
And I think that was what was like the hardest for her.
So I was like, I don't know that you like, really miss me.
You just miss that I was obsessed with you.
That totally makes sense. Yeah, it's a it's a hard
realization to come to, but if you come to it like so that's
what. How long did it take for her to
circle back? Four days.
I'm like trying to remember this timeline.
Sometimes it's months. That's true.
Well, OK, remember I'm avoiding girl not very good at at at
communicating things at times. So like I thought that we had
kind of like ended things. And then it turns out that like
a couple months later, like she had a different take away from
that conversation and thought that it was like kind of like
tabled for a little bit, but it was definitely it wasn't like
days. It was like like a couple weeks
at least. And then that's when I saw like
the emotional reaction and I was like, we haven't like hung out
in like months. Like I, how can you be upset
right now? But also like, I don't know.
I, I think in, in that situation I was definitely like very much
also did things wrong. So it's like.
I love that accountability. I mean, with music you you like,
you focus in on like a specific emotion or like, you know,
moment in time. So that song was really like me
being like, I'm going to write about how I feel like you never
really gave a shit about me that much in the 1st place.
But obviously that it's not covering all of like the nuance
that like situation, ships, relationships, whatever it is
like might have. So I definitely will take
accountability for like my my mistakes and that too.
But but also, yeah, like I, I think when I'm like obsessed
with someone, like I'm very like, I'm so like good to
people. Yeah, but also like, fuck that
bitch. Also fuck that bitch.
Like for the record, like honestly and and and do you have
this moment when you're like on tour performing for these people
that are frothing for you, thinking about this girl being
like, wow, you really fucked up you because I'm a spiteful
bitch. I really AM.
And we were just talking about this because this whole thing
about this, this like in the news, you know, there's this
like $0.50 being spiteful towards Diddy thing right now.
And I'm like really channelling this energy of like, like my
spite will run decades deep and like, scared.
Of what she's planning. You like, you have no, you have
no idea. And you know, like, I will lay
in wait to literally like, what, put a fucking, you know, hex on
your house. Like, yeah, I'm not, but I'm
very docile. Like I'm nonviolent.
Like I'm not whatever. But like, if I have the
opportunity to like, make sure that you don't have a smile on
your face one day, like, yeah, like I I might take it.
I don't. Might my ass, baby.
I probably would. You would take it.
I would, I would, I would like probably use all my money and
resources to make sure that like you just like are unhappy for a
little bit, but. Even just for like a month.
I mean if someone does you dirty, I feel like that's your
right. It just depends on how with the
level. I'm not like that.
Yeah, yeah, if it's a small offense.
Right, if it's warranted. If you shit on my lawn, right,
and you literally come from my family and friends, like I will
make sure, yeah. There'll be fiery poop on your
doorstep. It will be fire poop right?
Like. It's so much funnier without the
why fire. There will be fire poop on your
lawn like and and I won't hesitate.
Would you take that opportunity? Like what type of person are
you? Are you better than me?
I I more. Involved, she said.
Yeah. No, I get it.
I get it.
Well, OK, I think that for me the best kind of like revenge
or. This song, you're going to swift
it. No, no, not even that.
Honestly, it's like if, if I like, if I really feel like I've
been done dirty by someone, then like I just want to like be
unforgettable to them in like every way.
So like I want to like be unavoidable.
Like I want you to like. You're going to have to see my
face everywhere. Like a billboard.
Yeah, like you're going to see my songs and you're going to
win. The Grammy for the song that I
wrote about you. Right, like I'm going to, I'm
going to open for all your favorite artists.
You cannot get, you can't get away from me like that.
Concert at 8:00 but you still saw 15 minutes of me.
Right, right. So like that's, that's kind of
the vibe. But also, like I said, Aquarius,
it's like once I'm done, I like kind of don't care.
Amazing. Can you give that to me?
What's stronger, the don't care or the spite?
I feel like they don't care in this situation.
I. Don't know, sometimes Spike
carries you. It is the best fuel.
I feel like it's it's kind of it's kind of both like it kind
of turns into like it all just kind of like feeds into my like
general like stubbornness and like delusion to like keep like
pushing with music until I like reach, you know, like the level
that I want to be at. So it's all fuel to the fire.
And also, yeah, it's just it's ultimately it's just like it's
material for music. Oh, true.
Do you ever like, fuck up a situation just to get material?
That would be crazy. I don't but I think I
accidentally like manifested that because in in the long term
relationship that I was with with a man.
That doesn't count, but yeah. Well, but it was, it was like I
would always like joke, like I like, I need more like material
for writing. Like I feel like you need to
like break my heart or something like whatever.
And it was like a very like, it was not like a tumultuous kind
of relationship. So but then at the end,
obviously when like everything came crashing and burning, then
I was like, oh, I have a whole album worth of things now to
talk about. So.
So that's coming soon. So when?
Did you start writing like? When was your first like EP?
Your first album? When you got like.
I kind of like came into that. I'm a lead bloomer in a lot of
ways, guys. It doesn't matter, as long as
you come out of the womb and bust the V you're good like.
Can't hold me forever, baby. True.
Make your presence known, yeah. But so I, I started writing in
like 20-19 ish and I thought so I've always loved music.
Like I thought that my, my love for music meant that I was like,
I should work in the music industry.
Like that's what that means. Because I didn't have any like
friends that were writers or really like musicians at all.
So I didn't have like an example of like, like what I could be
honestly. Same with like being gay.
Like I didn't have a lot of like queer friends until I started
pursuing music honestly. And then that's kind of when my,
my like world opened up a little bit, but.
And this was in New York. Yeah, musicians are gay.
Musicians are gay. We're.
Creative and well for. Sure, and New York is so chock
full of like so. Different kinds of.
Artistry going on. Yeah.
And just people living really authentically, which I think is
what kind of showed me like, OK, wait.
But actually there is like more to like my identity than I guess
I thought I I, yeah, I'm super, super grateful that like, I
started pursuing music because I don't think that I would have.
I don't know that I would have realized that I was queer if I
didn't like. Yeah.
That's a big well. Eventually I'm sure I would have
bubbled over, but for like a while.
The labia would have struck you. Yeah.
Have you ever had an ex that you
don't want to be at your show show up to your show?
Wait, this is fun. So yeah, how do I want to like?
How do I want to describe? Loving this I'm I'm AI in.
I know you're like, escort this motherfucker out of the
courting. No, it wasn't.
Courting. I would though, yeah.
I mean, in a particular, it wasn't an ex.
It was like, well, OK, in a particularly chaotic era of my
life, there was a show where there were three people there
that in some way I had been involved with.
They banded together behind your back.
They didn't know each other. They were all there.
Well, I guess in a way maybe some of them didn't know each
other, but it was like I wasn't expecting all of them to be
there and I was unwell. You.
Were like I was extremely unwell and I honestly I feel bad
because I think to to one of of like one girl that was there.
I don't think I was very nice to her because I was like so
shocked that she was there and I was like, why?
I mean I didn't say this, but I was like, why the fuck are you
here? Like, like it was.
And it was just like I had just played a show.
So I was like also like in business mode too, you know,
like it was. A different energy.
Yeah, like there were like people there that I was, you
know, like, like professional, like of course relationships.
And I'm kind of trying to like be on for that.
And then I'm like seeing like, like these three people all in
my line of vision and I'm like, I cannot, I actually can't
handle this right now. So what?
Did. You do I just an Aquarius
fashion. I just literally didn't deal
with it. Peace.
Put it in the right guys. I gotta go to the green room.
I. Was like, I'm gonna talk to
other people and you guys are gonna hopefully not interact
with each other. Yeah, hopefully I angry like
they probably did. And then they were like, yeah,
they're. Like she's such a bitch.
No, but look at her hot rusting bitch face.
So you're literally coming to my, like, fucking show.
Yeah, Like, yeah, what a win that is.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Wow that's the best card you could ever pull is like.
Talent card. Talent, yeah.
What do you see, like, on the horizon for your career?
We're really big on manifesting and putting everything out there
in the world. Like what is your next big goal
that you have on your plate? So I'm putting an album next
year. It's like my my debut full
length album. So my goal for that is just for
my audience to grow like exponentially and for people, so
many people to hear it and to to resonate with it and love it
because I love it. I'm like very, very proud of
this project. So I can't wait for that to be
out. Is there a stage that you want
to like, get on? What is your, like, favorite
stage that you're like? You know what?
When I hit that stage, my lips have touched like right,
everybody well. OK, I like my this isn't a
stage, but I I feel like my kind of goal is like I want to be
muna famous, like I want to be like a household.
I want to be a household name for like lesbians.
Yes, if I reach that point, I'll be happy.
Of course, like if I'm going to like Chapel.
Right. It's like Madison Square.
Well. Who am I to, to like, you know,
put a ceiling on myself, of course.
But if I can, if like if that's the stage that I I reached, I'd
be like very happy to be yeah, like household name for the
lesbians and like grenade rap that that's amazing to me.
And I also think like just in terms of, of like audience, like
I think right now the, the type of like fan that that I have, it
feels very like like just supportive and like accepting
and, and like fun, but still respectful, you know?
So I feel like kind of catering to to that type of person.
Like feels like it would just be a really like fun and like
fulfilling career. OK, so.
You have, you have one choice, okay, gun to your head, you can
have MUNA Trajectory Chapel or Renee Wrap.
I mean. No.
It's like Moon of Renee Chapel in terms of fame, but they're
all lesbian. Yeah, but which one do you want
to pick? I.
Mean one is the most famous. Well, let's let her do it.
Like hello, let's let her pick. You're picking for her.
You're right, I'm sorry. I'm just squeezing.
I mean, I'm gonna, I'm also Chapel because like, I like, I
don't know, I'm not, I'm like very open to whatever the
universe wants to bring me, you know?
And I think, like, it's been really amazing to see so many
like queer artists really succeed and like, see that that
can happen on like a mainstream level.
But also, like, I just want to make music where the people who
get it, like have access to it and they get it and they love it
and like tour and and sell out shows and, and like just have a
good time. Like I just think like good.
Queer Time. I make, I make art because like
I, I have to like, there's just no other option for me.
And so the best case scenario for me is just like the people
that people find it that like will appreciate it.
And if that's like on a huge scale, then amazing.
But also if it's on like, also like big scale, that's not like
Taylor Swift, like crazy, like you can't leave your house.
Like, I actually think I wouldn't want that, you know?
Yeah. So I don't know if that answers
your question, but for sure. But yeah, I.
Think the world is your oyster. I really love that your music is
touching the community. I I think that you're destined
for everything that you want and more.
Thank you. We absolutely thank you.
Thanks for. Coming on, tell everybody how
they can find you for our audio listeners.
You can find me Rachel Bachner on whatever streaming platform
you use Rachel Bachner on Instagram, TikTok, social media,
whatever. And thank you guys so much for
having me. Thank you so much the incredibly
talented Rachel Bachner. It is a true pleasure for us.
Get her on your next Spotify Wrapped.
That's right, period. Amen.
Adios, baby.
Women. Oh.