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Happy Monday. 
Matt and Chris are back with you

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here on the ERC Leftovers 
podcast. 

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A lot has happened. 
A lot going on has happened. 

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Do we record? 
Did we do a podcast during day 

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camp last year? 
I can't even remember. 

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We actually did during day camp.
Oh, yeah. 

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We, we kind of, we kind of 
waited. 

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And you know, The thing is like,
I'm sure the mic didn't pick up.

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I don't think it picked up any 
of you know, I don't think it 

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did. 
The the controlled madness. 

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Yeah. 
I'm not sure if you're going to 

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go chaos or joy there. 
No, I, I would, you know, maybe 

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controlled madness with a big 
splash of joy. 

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That's kind of how I I perceive 
that. 

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That sounds good. 
Yeah. 

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So no, we did that last week. 
A lot has happened though, 

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because we had day camp all week
and then like 4th of July 

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parade, pool party yesterday. 
There's just been a lot of 

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stuff, a lot of stuff happening.
You had child's birthday on the 

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4th like it's. 
Yeah, I have two adult children 

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now, which at the age of 44, I 
don't. 

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You know, somebody asked me 
when, you know, I mentioned, 

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yeah, I have two adult kids. 
They said, oh wow, does that 

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make you, do you feel old? 
No, actually I'm just more so 

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feeling like I can breathe a 
little bit because we're listen,

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I hear at the point where we're 
like, OK, like, wait there. 

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I don't think there's ever a 
quote, UN quote finish line 

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because your kids are always 
your kids. 

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But like when they're both 
adults and, and they're, they're

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living their lives fairly 
independently of you, you're 

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like, wow, we, we actually did 
that. 

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It feels like, it feels like 
you've done the impossible 

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because anybody who's raised 
kids, you know that there's 

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moments throughout either their 
younger years or when they're 

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teenagers that you're like, man,
I, I don't know, we're making it

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through. 
This doesn't seem like they're 

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going to be able to survive 
like. 

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But you know, my, my message to 
any parents who have, you know, 

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are currently going through some
heavy hitting stuff, you know, 

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with your kids, like you're 
going to make it, They're going 

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to make it. 
We're all going to be OK. 

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But like, we have to, we have to
have faith in the process, the 

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long game. 
Yeah, I feel like that's a. 

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That's a good word. 
We've all made it except for. 

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Except for the ones that didn't.
I'm sorry. 

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What? 
I don't know it's. 

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Monday it is Monday. 
I, I have to, you guys don't 

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know this who are listening to 
this, but I feel like I need to 

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make like A at least a mildly 
public apology to my fellow 

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staff members just because like,
I've been on it today. 

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You have been. 
Like, I don't know, I just, you 

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know, you could use the phrase 
woke up on the wrong side of the

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bed. 
Who knows? 

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But like I've been on it today, 
so I'm actually. 

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Chris Chris has a major case in 
the Mondays Today. 

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Real bad. 
Real bad. 

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It's it's real today since 
Kristen. 

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Already left for the day so she 
couldn't take it anymore. 

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She, she actually like I, I had 
said something about I need 

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somebody to like yell at. 
And then Kristen brought in this

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book. 
From from a. 

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First aid kit and I don't think 
the first aid kit has been open 

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since the 80s. 
And so she opened it up in like 

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the smell of like, you know, 50 
year old band aids hit me in the

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face and I was like, Kristen, 
you just gave me this somebody 

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to yell at. 
And I was like, get out of my 

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office with that smell. 
The the date on the book was 

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1966, so I mean that was almost 
almost 60 years old. 

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Yeah, you could smell it. 
It was almost 60. 

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Years old. 
It was gross. 

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Wow, what is? 
Yeah, my goodness. 

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So. 
So let me. 

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Ask you, let me ask you a 
question. 

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OK, what? 
What is like one of the smells 

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that other people don't seem to 
mind that you just cannot 

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handle? 
That's not the question I 

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thought you were going to ask. 
I thought we were going to go 

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down a smell related path. 
Now I actually so most this this

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sounds super weird. 
Most soaps actually like hand 

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soap, but most like wash your 
hands in a sink soap. 

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Most of those smells are very 
appalling to me actually. 

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Like I need something fairly 
neutral, not very fruity. 

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Maybe like especially anything, 
anything like a public restroom 

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that is like one of those push 
foam things like any of those 

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that just thought it kind of 
like industrial cleaner. 

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And I feel like those ones like 
stick with you all day. 

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Like after I do that, I'm like, 
I'm going to go dunk my hands of

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gasoline to get together to get 
this smell off because like 

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that's the only thing that will 
overpower this soap smell that I

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can't stand. 
So that might, that might seem 

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weird, but like I have, I have 
some very specific we get like 

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Miss Miss Myers, like lemon, 
lemon zest had scented hand 

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soap. 
But like that's I don't know, 

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that's like a mild fine smell 
that I can get. 

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But any of this like, I don't 
know, Rose Blossom or whatever 

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Quickstar has in there a little 
bit like it's just it's, it's an

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overwhelming, like almost gives 
me a headache sort of. 

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So like, if I'm going to wash my
hands in that scenario and I'm 

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you, maybe I just try and get 
really, really hot water and 

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skip this. 
I don't know. 

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I don't know. 
Yeah. 

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So, OK, So what? 
What is that for you? 

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Well, today I never I. 
I guess I never realized it 

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until today, but maybe it's a. 
Musty book smell. 

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Well, no, it actually, it 
smelled like it. 

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It, it smelled and I smelled. 
So Kristen walked in with this 

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book and this stuff. 
She was at least 7 feet away. 

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Yeah, she never really walked. 
Like into your office. 

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She was in the doorway. 
But I smelled old old old band 

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aids and I just I, I, I could 
not like. 

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Plastic flexi band aids in the 
metal. 

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Oh my gosh, she she gave me, I 
think a person to like yell at 

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today. 
I was like get out of my house. 

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Like she, she gave me my out. 
She. 

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Feels so strongly about this. 
I do like it was just the worst 

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smell and actually, so for, for 
those of you, and I know it's 

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not everybody, but for those of 
you who you may enjoy like 

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trying like a craft beer or 
something like that. 

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I've had one that it tasted like
band aids. 

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I'm not joking. 
And so then I go into my little,

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I go into my little app and I 
look at the description and I 

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wasn't going crazy. 
Several other people were like, 

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this tastes like band aids 
smell. 

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And I was like, Yep, that's why,
That's why I dumped it because I

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was like, this is disgusting. 
That is gross. 

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You don't. 
You don't want that. 

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I don't want to drink band aids 
or or even really smell them. 

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Right. 
That's more, that makes more 

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sense because we taste with our 
smell too, right? 

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I wanted to know who the people 
were writing reviews that are 

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like this tastes like band aids.
Yeah. 

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Who's tasting band? 
But tastes like Band-Aid smell. 

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Tastes like Band-Aid smell. 
Yeah. 

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So it it was not, it was not 
great. 

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And so, yeah, if I today, if I 
got to pick on something, it's 

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the smell of band aids. 
It's terrible because that was 

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the smell of band aids on 
steroids. 

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It was too much. 
Yikes. 

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So I feel, I feel like that's a 
good question for the masses 

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too. 
What's what's the smell? 

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That's like weird. 
What's what's the smell that's 

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usually pleasant for other 
people that you just can't 

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stand? 
Or what's the smell that's 

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usually unpleasant because like 
actually I brought up gasoline. 

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Some people like the smell of 
gasoline, Which. 

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Is really dangerous. 
Right, which is really 

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dangerous, but I'm just what's 
the what's the smell that you 

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that is off putting to other 
people that you maybe are like, 

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Nah, I'm good. 
You know, I'll give you, I'll 

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give you mine just since we're 
on the medical kit thing, let's 

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just stay there and I'll tell 
you that like in the right 

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doses, not not huge amounts, but
in small doses, the smell of 

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like rubbing alcohol for some 
reason that is pleasant to me 

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and I don't know why. 
I know it's weird, right? 

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It's really strange. 
It's really. 

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Strange. 
Yeah, I, I can't agree with you 

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on that one. 
I 'cause that's I don't like, is

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there Robin, what's what's in 
what's in fingernail Polish 

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remover? 
That's that's like, that's bad. 

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That's like one of the worst 
smells to me. 

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That's really bad. 
So I don't, I don't know if 

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that's got to be some sort of 
alcohol. 

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I. 
Mean that's. 

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I don't really regularly use it,
so I don't I don't know. 

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Well, I mean, you know, you're 
cleaning out like a a small cut 

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or a wound and you dump it on 
there and it starts to bubble up

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a little bit and you're like, I 
don't know. 

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Got way more experience with it 
than I do apparently. 

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I guess. 
I guess. 

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All right, so that's that's 
going to suffice for the the 

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small talk side conversation. 
Yikes. 

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We got we went into the deep end
of smells here with the 60 year 

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old first aid kit that you 
experienced today. 

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So anyway, it's been, all that 
is to say, it's been a fun week.

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Thank you again to any and all 
of you who were part of day camp

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this past week, both the prep 
there's there's lots of decor 

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and planning and painting and 
prepping that goes into making 

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the week happen. 
And of course, during the week, 

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I mean, they were our kitchen 
crew was feeding 100 people a 

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day for four straight days for 
lunch. 

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It was some of those of you who 
housed the I Point staff or had 

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them over for a meal one of the 
evenings they were here. 

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Like it was just it, it really 
took the whole village of ERC 

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here to make day camp happen for
these 100 little souls that were

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here this week. 
And that was really cool. 

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Those of you that came out and 
had the idea to be in the parade

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and came out and walked in the 
parade and then ultimately just 

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kind of had a chill evening at 
the pool last night, it was a 

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fun week. 
It was a fun week in church life

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so. 
Yeah, I don't know if we often 

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times have weeks that full like 
every single day almost. 

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But you know, you, you come out 
of that maybe feeling fatigued, 

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but also feeling very filled. 
And so I I. 

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Get tired. 
Yeah, I definitely woke up 

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feeling both today. 
So that's that's not all bad. 

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Yeah. 
So what we also had, we had a 

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message yesterday from you 
continuing on in Acts and 

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talking about this unknown God, 
the kind of dichotomy between 

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the two, the 2 lines of 
thinking, the Stoics and the 

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Epicureans. 
So tell us just elevator speech 

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for yesterday. 
What, what, what, what we take 

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away and and we'll get into some
some deeper conversation here on

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the things too. 
Yeah. 

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So the the quick version of that
is the Epicureans in the Stoics.

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They are eerily related to what 
you might call kind of a two 

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party or a dual system, at least
politically that we have today. 

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But I think that's also 
culturally and socially a much 

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more kind of liberal, what you 
might call quote UN quote, 

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forward thinking kind of 
methodology of how I live my 

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life and how I vote and do all 
these kinds of things versus a 

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more morally conservative and 
stoic approach to life. 

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So I'm, I'm very much working 
hard to be in control of my 

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emotions and like how I react to
things and I'm just going to put

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my head down and all that kind 
of stuff. 

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And, and I, I can't imagine that
there's a lot of people. 

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Sure, certainly there are some, 
but I can't imagine that there's

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a lot of people who fall 
squarely into one camp or the 

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other. 
We usually flex a little bit 

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back and forth in between those 
things. 

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And so really like, you know, 
the big point of yesterday was 

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like, OK, if we're going to talk
about multiplying the church, 

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not just adding people from 
other churches to our, to our 

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building, but like actually 
multiplying the church through 

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finding and meeting and talking 
to people who don't yet know 

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Jesus. 
How best do we do that with 

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within these two like 
philosophies or these 

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worldviews? 
And so, you know, we, we dove 

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into it yesterday and I gave 
kind of like one talking point 

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for for each one of them. 
But there's certainly more 

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talking points in like how do we
engage with people who kind of 

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fall into these two worlds or 
philosophies? 

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And so wanted to come back and 
make good on my promise 

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yesterday and at least address 
like one more thing from each 

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group. 
One of the main things you 

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brought up for me yesterday 
really was and, and you walked 

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that line of bringing in modern 
day politics, politics or even 

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like social, economic, political
kind of considerations in with 

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these world views too. 
And there's definitely there's 

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absolutely whispers and shadows 
and and crossover from those 

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things. 
Of course we derive some of that

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and to some degree it's 
necessary that there were these 

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seemingly opposing the sides of 
all of these social and 

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political issues going back to 
to millennia. 

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That that makes sense. 
The thing that you most pointed 

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you didn't speak highly of 
either one yesterday. 

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Like they're both wrong in in a 
vacuum on their own. 

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They're both missing and, and, 
and maybe wrongs, maybe wrongs 

248
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too strong a word that they're, 
they're wrong in that they're 

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lacking, that they don't have 
the whole picture. 

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If they think this worldview has
it all put together and contains

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all the pieces of, of a 
meaningful and, and moral and 

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righteous life, they both fall 
short. 

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Neither, neither 1 is really 
better than the other in that 

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00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,680
sense of having the overall 
picture of a life that we're 

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called to. 
That's that's what screamed out 

256
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to me. 
You weren't, you weren't really 

257
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,960
picking sides. 
And then we we get into the, the

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00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,960
unknown God and ultimately the 
the name that they should be 

259
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,000
calling on or the name that they
should know Jesus, which is kind

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00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,920
of where we finished yesterday. 
So that's what stuck out to me. 

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00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,200
And we can get into a little 
more of the, yeah, just the 

262
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,160
contrast between the two things 
and maybe the more specific 

263
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,720
flaws that each side kind of 
has. 

264
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,840
Absolutely. 
So to start with the Epicureans,

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again, these are, as I pointed 
out yesterday, they're they're 

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more liberal, individually 
focused kind of people and 

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they're always kind of seeking 
out what is the good life for me

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specifically, not necessarily 
everybody. 

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It's can be materialistic and 
you know, God, if he exists at 

270
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,720
all, like he's not really that 
present. 

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00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,000
And So what, what we tend to 
find is, again, there's a 

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00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,480
couple, there's a couple issues 
that if you're proclaiming Jesus

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to people who are built like 
this philosophically, you know, 

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of course, one of the issues 
that we talked about yesterday 

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with the Epicureans was, Oh my 
gosh, I just lost my, my thought

276
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,160
train. 
I was, I thought you were 

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00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,440
getting into, I mean, if you're 
talking to the Epicureans, the 

278
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,440
free thinkers, the biggest 
problem with sharing about our 

279
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,080
God with them or about Jesus, 
they don't think they need a God

280
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,920
that that's or, or they are 
their own God, right? 

281
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,360
Like that's first and foremost 
if you're if you're individual 

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00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,160
focused and achieving your own 
best life. 

283
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,960
That's a great phrase. 
You're you're pretty, you're 

284
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,400
pretty headstrong with your 
fulfilment is dependent on 

285
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,800
yourself worth what you're able 
to do and accomplish and achieve

286
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,640
and ultimately protect for 
yourself. 

287
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:18,440
So a religion, Christianity 
specifically, that says, all 

288
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,200
right, all your righteous works 
are filthy rags. 

289
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,840
You can't earn your way to 
salvation. 

290
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,000
And in fact, it's done and it's 
freely given. 

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00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,120
And, and you don't even really 
have a part in that at all other

292
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,560
than to accept and receive this 
gift freely given Those things 

293
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,520
don't gel. 
That's that's like oil and 

294
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,960
water, right? 
Like those those two, there's 

295
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:46,520
not even common ground between 
those two lines of thought, 

296
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,080
right? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

297
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,680
And so. 
Excuse me. 

298
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,400
Yeah. 
So I mean, like that, that kind 

299
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,120
of like, I can, I can fulfill my
destiny. 

300
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,560
I can. 
I will find the thing, whatever 

301
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,720
that it is, I will find it. 
And ultimately, I will be happy 

302
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,960
because I found it. 
And again, the argument I think 

303
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,440
that anybody can make, 
especially those who have, like,

304
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,760
made their dreams happen and 
they're still miserable. 

305
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,839
You're like, what happened? 
I thought this was going to make

306
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,440
you happy. 
And then, you know, all sorts of

307
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,960
issues follow with that 
depression. 

308
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,680
And you know, I'm, I'm just 
bitter and angry because this 

309
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,200
thing that I thought I needed so
bad, it didn't do what I thought

310
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,160
it was going to do. 
And so like to make the argument

311
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,440
then that God is actually the 
thing you've been chasing the 

312
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,240
entire time, who will fulfill 
you? 

313
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,640
And you won't have this gap or 
this, this void in your life 

314
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,120
anymore because you feel the 
peace and the fulfillment that 

315
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,760
comes with having a relationship
with the one true God, the 

316
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,200
living God. 
That's going to be incredibly 

317
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,920
helpful for you. 
So as far as like the thing I 

318
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:54,880
didn't cover yesterday, I wanted
to touch on, typically when 

319
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,520
you're talking to a person like 
this, justice is a big issue. 

320
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,280
So, you know, you might call 
them modern day. 

321
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,240
Like we hear this phrase social 
justice warriors. 

322
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,960
And so like, I'm going to get on
the bandwagon of everything that

323
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,880
I feel like is unfair in 
society. 

324
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,800
And so like, you get this. 
You get the sense that they have

325
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,000
a very strong sense of justice 
and right and wrong. 

326
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,280
But like, what's your baseline 
for that? 

327
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,160
What's your baseline for that? 
Tim Keller says something really

328
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,400
interesting. 
He said says if you don't 

329
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,920
believe in God, you can hear 
that you can account for moral 

330
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,040
feelings, but you cannot account
for moral obligation. 

331
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,040
What he's saying and what's true
is that, like, you can feel a 

332
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,880
certain way about, you know, 
these people should be treated 

333
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,360
just like everybody else. 
Racism, of course, terrible, 

334
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:45,360
right? 
All that kind of stuff. 

335
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:51,960
But like, if there's no God, you
can't make me obliged to that. 

336
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,000
Because if there's no God, if 
there's no anchor for morality 

337
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,120
other than we've just evolved 
into this, well, guess what? 

338
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,760
I don't need to be obliged to 
what you're obliged to Morally, 

339
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,200
I don't have to be. 
I can live my life any way I 

340
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,360
want. 
I can murder, steal, kill, as 

341
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,120
long as I don't get caught. 
I'm doing what? 

342
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,480
My evolutionary biology, my 
brain, the chemicals in my 

343
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,640
brain, which are apparently are 
random and not put there by any 

344
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,760
meaningful way. 
I I can do whatever I want and 

345
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,080
you can't tell me any different.
You don't have the legs to stand

346
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,200
on to tell me I'm wrong. 
Right. 

347
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,480
And that's what's also kind of 
within this freethinker 

348
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,600
Epicurean worldview is, is 
making your own truth. 

349
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,840
There's it's truth is very 
subjective. 

350
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,720
There's not objective truth in 
this. 

351
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,600
And and by that, that means, 
yes, you can have these moral 

352
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,720
feelings, but they're largely 
informed that there isn't a 

353
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,600
standard of truth or right and 
wrong in those morals. 

354
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,600
They're largely informed by how 
you feel about a certain thing. 

355
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,760
And that can be, I feel like we 
see this played out in in 

356
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,120
people's lives all the time. 
If you may read something in in 

357
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,360
the Bible that the Bible clearly
calls out as wrong. 

358
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,440
But the moment either you or 
someone close to you in your 

359
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,440
life, the moment that issue 
enters into their life. 

360
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,520
Not Jeff Bridges. 
What's Oh man, who wrote 

361
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,760
respectable sins? 
I haven't read that one. 

362
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,520
Darn it, there's a really good 
book called Respectable Sins and

363
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,840
How We How We Justify. 
That's a great premise. 

364
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,840
Things in our life. 
Jerry Bridges, not Jeff Bridges,

365
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,240
of course. 
Maybe what do we get if Jeff 

366
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,120
Bridges wrote it? 
But. 

367
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,480
Awesome if he was an actor and 
did that. 

368
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:51,240
Right, Jerry Bridges like this 
book about sins that we justify 

369
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,960
and that's that's one of the 
ways that we do it. 

370
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,960
We kind of make allowance if 
there's someone close to us or 

371
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,360
someone that we value, we kind 
of like poo poo the sin, right? 

372
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:07,240
Or we we kind of we might be 
tempted to maybe the Bible isn't

373
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,400
maybe it doesn't really mean 
that maybe the Bible isn't 

374
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,480
really calling out that thing as
a sin because I don't want I 

375
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,360
don't want this person to have 
to bear the wrath of this sin 

376
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,480
struggle in your life. 
And then and then our morals get

377
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,560
informed by our emotions rather 
than rather than what what 

378
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,680
Keller says is a moral 
obligation. 

379
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,440
That moral obligation would then
be to a righteous authority, 

380
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,200
right? 
Like that's that authority that 

381
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,000
sets those moral bounds in this 
Epicurean view, those moral 

382
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,720
bounds are set by my emotions 
and my feelings or what I 

383
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,120
perceive to be true. 
That the later part of of this 

384
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,760
quote that you have for Keller, 
if your premise that there is no

385
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,360
God leads you to a conclusion, 
you can't live with a lack of 

386
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,240
moral obligation to do anything,
then you have to change the 

387
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,680
premise. 
And, and that's the if then 

388
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:04,840
there, if the conclusion or even
the justice that you're seeking 

389
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,480
that that you're trying to bring
about, if that end game 

390
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,880
ultimately isn't what you want 
to be, well, then you're going 

391
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,720
back to square 1 and you're 
resetting the bounds of how you 

392
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,480
want this to turn out. 
And that's, that's subjective 

393
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640
truth. 
That's subjective justice. 

394
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,320
Actually, it's, it's not, 
there's there's nothing set in 

395
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,880
concrete morals in that. 
If it's fully dependent on on 

396
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:37,360
self and and this free thinker, 
make your own truth, grab your 

397
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,360
own like grab your life by the 
horn sort of sort of attitude 

398
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:46,920
like it's, it's not there and it
and it ends up leaving you with 

399
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,960
ultimately, I think, immoral 
bounds for truth. 

400
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,840
There's no consistency in that. 
It's it's all swayed by feelings

401
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:00,240
and emotions which any of you 
that are human understand that 

402
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,920
those those can change 
day-to-day like so yeah, not a 

403
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,280
whole lot of solid foundation 
there for the morality, the 

404
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,440
justice thinking in in this 
Epicurean worldview. 

405
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,120
And that's where I think, you 
know, the the Christian has an 

406
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:23,520
opportunity to walk into that 
conversation and, you know, 

407
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,880
create that sense of like, OK, 
well, you create that sense of 

408
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,760
like the logical dissonance, you
might say. 

409
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,040
So like, it's what you believe 
over here doesn't actually jive 

410
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,000
with what you believe over here.
And those things butt up against

411
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,240
each other so hard that like you
can't actually maintain those 

412
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,320
both those standards 
simultaneously. 

413
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,960
And so one of them has to go, or
like Keller says, you have to 

414
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,880
change the entire premise, which
maybe there is and maybe there 

415
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,440
there is then a God who has a 
moral anchor that we are all 

416
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,200
bound to. 
Because if it's not a God who 

417
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,000
has a moral anchor that we're 
all bound to, then it becomes a 

418
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,360
power play. 
So whoever has the most power in

419
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:09,160
my culture and my society, they 
get to determine what's morally 

420
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,880
right and wrong because that's 
the culture. 

421
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,120
And so then we're we've got 
shifting morals constantly and 

422
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:20,120
it's impossible to keep up with.
And a moral that shifts isn't 

423
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,640
morality at all, I I don't 
think. 

424
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:28,040
So bring it back to our 
listeners, our, our church here.

425
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,880
What do we, what do you do? 
How do you, how do you put 

426
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,640
yourself in Paul's shoes, in the
apostles shoes here? 

427
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:42,300
How do you bring Jesus into the 
life of someone who has quote UN

428
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:47,440
quote everything like or who who
quote UN quote doesn't need him?

429
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,760
Yeah. 
What, what, what do we, what do 

430
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,160
we do with that? 
How do we enter into Because 

431
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,960
that's a pretty assaultive 
conversation, right? 

432
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,480
Like, you think you've got it 
all figured out. 

433
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,480
Your first talking point is 
really, you don't have it all 

434
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,200
figured out. 
You need Jesus. 

435
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,080
Most people don't want to hear 
that, right? 

436
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,760
Well, because you just, you just
challenged literally my entire 

437
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,360
way of life. 
You're, you're in some ways 

438
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,040
you're, you're almost saying 
like everything that I've been 

439
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,640
striving for is for not, but, 
but it's, it's kind of true 

440
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,840
because, you know, again, going 
back to the idea of Ecclesiastes

441
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,320
or anybody, and you can read 
1000 stories online of people 

442
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,560
who got exactly what they wanted
and ended up more miserable than

443
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,480
when they started. 
So let's take a simple example. 

444
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,360
Somebody wins the lottery and 
they've been, they've been 

445
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,600
praying and begging for this 
their whole life because their 

446
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,480
whole life, maybe they felt like
the greatest stressor of their 

447
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,160
life was I don't, I don't have 
enough money, never have enough 

448
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,000
of that. 
And so, you know, you win the 

449
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,880
lottery and then all of a 
sudden, like, man, your life is 

450
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,280
way more complex and you 
actually feel like it's worse. 

451
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,120
And, and that's, that's a 
reality that a lot of people 

452
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,000
have dealt with over the last 
century. 

453
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,080
And they end up broke and 
destitute and angry and bitter. 

454
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,560
And so how do you speak into 
that? 

455
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,320
Well, man, there's an 
opportunity to say there is a 

456
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,840
peace that transcends all 
understanding, you know, and, 

457
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,720
and when I've had opportunities 
to speak to people who are like 

458
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,240
this, often times I share 
stories. 

459
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,840
So, and I won't leave any 
specific names here, but I've 

460
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,600
known several people who have 
cancer and it's not something 

461
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,000
that the doctors are willing to 
work on anymore And they don't 

462
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:39,160
want to die, but they're, 
they're also, they've got a 

463
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,160
piece and they've got a joy in 
their life that actually exceeds

464
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,080
my own. 
And I don't even have that 

465
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,960
problem hanging over my head. 
And it's like, wow. 

466
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,440
So you ask them, how did you get
here? 

467
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,560
Like what, what, what did what 
happened in your life that you 

468
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,640
can have peace even in the midst
of the worst thing that can 

469
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,640
possibly ever happen to you, 
which is like your untimely 

470
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,320
death. 
And the answer is always the 

471
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,120
same. 
It's always, well, I know who my

472
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,520
God is, I know exactly who he is
and I know he loves me and I 

473
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,680
know he's going to take care of 
me whether it's now or in the 

474
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,880
next life, he is going to take 
care of me. 

475
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,280
And there is nothing that can 
take away that level of peace 

476
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,240
and joy. 
Everything else in the world can

477
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,320
be taken away from you, a 
spouse, a, a, a child, your job,

478
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,480
your, your house, all these 
things can be taken away. 

479
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,200
And if they're not taken away 
before you die, they will be 

480
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,200
taken away when you die. 
And so I mean like, so to the 

481
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,640
extent I, I, I need to, to 
worship and love something, I 

482
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,840
need to have my faith in 
something that can never ever be

483
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,120
taken away. 
Life and death can't take it 

484
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,720
away. 
It can just, it can never go 

485
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,080
away because that is the one 
eternal thing. 

486
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,000
Because even if I think somehow 
I'm eternal, well, what's the 

487
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,120
point of my eternity without 
love? 

488
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,720
What's the point of what's the 
point of living forever without 

489
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,280
the thing that I need the most, 
which is love and care and to be

490
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,720
seen and to be known and to be 
able to give those things back 

491
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,480
to, to somebody who I care 
about. 

492
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,200
So I, I absolutely think we have
to, we have to speak into that 

493
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,160
philosophy and into that 
worldview with there's something

494
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,320
greater than anything you could 
achieve here. 

495
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,800
And I and I think it's 
important, though, to frame it 

496
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:27,960
not as in opposition to the life
that again, I will use they in 

497
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,640
quote that that that this person
they have built for themselves. 

498
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,160
I I think people maybe receive 
that as a well. 

499
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,360
If I if I say that I got to rely
on God, then all this really 

500
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,680
means nothing. 
No, like it it maybe he wants 

501
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,160
you to have these things like 
God has been here all along and 

502
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,640
I don't I don't want to take the
punchline away, but has been 

503
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,880
living as an unknown God like 
has has has been there in the 

504
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,640
background and you just don't 
know it. 

505
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320
You don't, you don't know how 
he's orchestrated these things 

506
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,360
in your life into in talking 
about death and the things that,

507
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,120
that the peace that those people
that you've talked with or, or 

508
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,360
had experience with with cancer.
Have you had a quote yesterday? 

509
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,520
You said the God who brought 
Jesus Christ back from the dead 

510
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,920
is the God who's got your back. 
I think for people who, who find

511
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:30,720
themselves in this Epicurean 
like worldview, presenting God 

512
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,040
as an ally is, is crucial 
because they will hear him as a 

513
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,560
threat. 
They, they, they will hear it as

514
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,240
a choosing between the life they
have and the life with God, 

515
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,800
which in some instances I'm not,
I'm not saying in some instances

516
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:53,760
it will be a a rich man scenario
with Jesus of sell all you have 

517
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,640
and follow me like that. 
That will need to happen for 

518
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,080
some people like this. 
They will need to leave the life

519
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,920
that they've built behind in 
order to follow God. 

520
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,560
I also think there's some of 
them that that can probably do 

521
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,440
both and and I've just been 
living in kind of this unknown. 

522
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,560
They they haven't known God or 
they haven't known that the life

523
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,960
they've built should be reliant 
on God. 

524
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,800
I've I've people in my life who 
have, I think really similar 

525
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,600
morals to me, but they're not 
believers. 

526
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,280
So and like they're not, they're
not following the Bible, they're

527
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,160
not following God's word for 
their moral compass, but yet 

528
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,920
their morals are, are pretty 
much In Sync with mine. 

529
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,520
So there's an element there 
where they're, where they're 

530
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,360
influenced by, there's that 
natural revelation of the truth 

531
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,600
of God and, and kind of the 
order of creation, the ways, the

532
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,160
way that God has orchestrated 
things to be. 

533
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,400
They're just, he's in that 
unknown realm. 

534
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,520
They, they don't know the source
of it. 

535
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,240
They don't know the, the object 
of their moral obligation. 

536
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,600
He's he's an unknown God to 
them. 

537
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,040
Well, I couldn't have said it 
better. 

538
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,480
That's awesome. 
So that's, that's, that's a 

539
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,720
great way to, you know, again, 
that's a great strategy to enter

540
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,000
into some of those 
conversations. 

541
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,400
But the next group that we 
talked about yesterday was the 

542
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,960
Stoics. 
And again, I, I mentioned it 

543
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,320
yesterday, but more particularly
in the Midwest, in the United 

544
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,280
States, you'll find a greater 
sense of stoicism being played 

545
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,440
out in our daily philosophies, 
even if we wouldn't call it 

546
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,280
that. 
And again, that's because we're 

547
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,480
we're self reliant in terms of 
like, I can grind this thing 

548
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,600
out. 
It's not. 

549
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,800
It's not. 
I'll just endure it. 

550
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,400
Yeah, I'll endure it. 
I'll keep my head down. 

551
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,560
And you know, the one thing I 
don't want to do is I don't want

552
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,880
to lose control of my emotions. 
Like I'm just going to accept 

553
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,440
fate as it is and keep pushing 
forward hard. 

554
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,640
Now, there's a lot of really 
great things about that. 

555
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,280
Like I am all for the person who
works ridiculously hard. 

556
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,520
You know, there's so many great 
stories of people who they start

557
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,680
from almost nothing and through 
just ridiculous hard work and 

558
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,960
aspiration. 
And you know, they, they make 

559
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,840
something great, at least by the
world standards. 

560
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,800
They make something great out of
themselves despite their their 

561
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,920
beginning circumstances. 
And you look and they say, yeah,

562
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,920
they worked really hard, good 
for them. 

563
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,080
And we like that. 
And so again, on the surface, 

564
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,720
there's nothing wrong with that.
However, it becomes, it becomes 

565
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,200
not, how do I say that it's no 
longer beneficial when I have to

566
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,400
turn so far inward that I can't 
honestly experience my feelings?

567
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,000
You know, that's when it becomes
a problem. 

568
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,640
So like, you know, you, you, you
get the person at the funeral 

569
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,080
who just lost their spouse or a 
child and they are just, well, 

570
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,640
they're stoic. 
And I'm not saying that 

571
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560
everybody has to be on the floor
wailing and crying and kicking 

572
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,640
and screaming. 
I'm not saying that at all. 

573
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,720
But like to allow yourself to 
actually experience the feelings

574
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,320
that God has given you. 
That's an important thing. 

575
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,720
One of the great things, I 
didn't bring it up yesterday, 

576
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,000
but one of the great things that
like the Stoic philosophy will 

577
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:22,080
tell you is when you kiss your 
child good bed at night, quietly

578
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,560
whisper to yourself, tomorrow 
you die. 

579
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,000
Why do we do that? 
So that way we don't grow too 

580
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
attached. 
I'm, it's, it's what we also, 

581
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,440
it's what we also psychologists 
call anticipatory grieving. 

582
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,520
So if I can anticipate something
difficult in my life, I can 

583
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,680
start dealing with it now. 
So that way when it inevitably 

584
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,480
happens, I will be strong, I 
will be Stoic, right? 

585
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,440
And So what that does is it 
removes you emotionally from 

586
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,480
really deep, intimate, 
meaningful relationships. 

587
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,440
And it removes you from the 
deepest level of love, which is 

588
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,920
I can be hurt by you. 
Well, the, the person who 

589
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,640
exercises some level of stoicism
in their life, what they're 

590
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,800
doing is they're always like, 
they're, they're always kind of 

591
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,600
like one step away. 
You can't ever fully grab them 

592
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,040
because they won't make 
themselves emotionally available

593
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,760
because they don't want to deal 
with the hurt. 

594
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,159
Let me put it to you this way. 
This is a really mild example. 

595
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,880
If you lose a pet and you say I 
would love to have a dog again 

596
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,120
or I'd love to have a cat again,
but I refuse to go through that,

597
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,280
what are you doing? 
You're saying I want to love 

598
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,880
big, I want to give that love 
away, but I know inevitably I'm 

599
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,320
going to hurt somewhere along 
the way and I refuse to allow 

600
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560
myself to feel that. 
And so that's that stoicism, 

601
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,000
like playing out in a pretty 
mild way, but that's what that 

602
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,880
is. 
Yep, not ready to be vulnerable 

603
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,719
in in a situation that either 
your experience or someone 

604
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,320
else's experience has told you 
is is going to end up with you 

605
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,960
vulnerable might not end up with
you hurt, but is going to end up

606
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,120
with you vulnerable to being 
hurt. 

607
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,520
And and in this, in this 
stoicism, it's kind of avoid 

608
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,120
that at all cost. 
Avoid the hurt. 

609
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:18,000
Keep self-sufficiency or inner 
peace amidst external turmoil. 

610
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:24,280
And that's also wrong in in the 
biblical worldview. 

611
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,560
We've we've said it before, I 
keep going back to it. 

612
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,000
Hopefully you've got it 
memorized by now. 

613
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:33,560
But John, John 1633 in this 
world, you will have trouble it.

614
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,840
That's that's what Jesus said to
his disciples. 

615
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,600
He did not say I'm hoping to 
protect you from all trouble in 

616
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,680
this world that that's not what 
happened. 

617
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,600
He promised you will have 
trouble, but take heart before I

618
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,000
have overcome the world that 
that's so that's that peace. 

619
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,800
Ultimately the, the God who's 
got your back sort of thing that

620
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,480
you said yesterday, that's the 
peace that we're supposed to 

621
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,360
find amidst this adversity. 
So that's where this stoicism 

622
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,960
viewpoint also kind of breaks 
down because there's there's not

623
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,520
reliance, there's not room for 
reliance on God. 

624
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,800
And I think part of that, this 
is going to sound, this is going

625
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,600
to sound a little weird. 
There's not room to be let down 

626
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,840
by God. 
No, don't, no, don't hear what 

627
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,400
I'm not saying. 
I'm not, I'm not suggesting that

628
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,920
God lets us down. 
But in moments or, or seasons 

629
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,760
where illness is not healed, 
where, where, where cancer is 

630
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,960
not removed, where, where death 
happens or where depression 

631
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:52,480
happens, that feels like where's
God, right? 

632
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,080
Like that, That feels like, why 
is God letting me through this? 

633
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,600
So that's the, that's the 
vulnerability. 

634
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,840
I think in this or or at least 
the link that's missing, you're 

635
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:09,680
not allowing yourself to be in 
deep relationship with God. 

636
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,480
Those of you that are that are 
in a romantic relationship or 

637
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,960
even doesn't have to be romantic
a a close emotional 

638
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,520
relationship, children, family, 
friends. 

639
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:27,680
Otherwise you will be let down. 
You have been let down in in 

640
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,160
that relationship before. 
You have been. 

641
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,800
Your relationship has been 
violated in some way by that 

642
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,120
person because they're sinful, 
because you're both sinful and 

643
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,760
and there's that problem now. 
Don't hear what I'm not saying. 

644
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,600
I'm not suggesting that God is 
actively letting us down like 

645
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:53,600
another human would, but as as 
in James, these these trials and

646
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,600
temptations are for the testing 
and and proving of the endurance

647
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,760
of your faith, right? 
Like that's what we're made to 

648
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:08,560
go through these things to hone,
to train our awareness, our need

649
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,720
for this reliance on God. 
And this stoicism view is just 

650
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,720
Nope, don't even don't even 
expose yourself to that. 

651
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:21,120
Don't don't bring on these, 
these trials or or this these 

652
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,600
things that will develop 
perseverance. 

653
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,000
Just just grin and bear it. 
You don't. 

654
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,800
Don't let yourself be exposed to
these things that that could let

655
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,200
you down or feel like they're 
letting you down. 

656
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,720
Don't leave room for faith. 
Don't leave room for the What 

657
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:38,480
if? 
Yeah. 

658
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,560
And so I mean, like, you know, 
where does the Bible clearly, 

659
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,320
clearly, clearly disagree with 
this? 

660
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,440
And how then do we make the 
argument to the person who's 

661
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,600
potentially emotionally 
unavailable because they refuse 

662
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,800
to make themselves vulnerable? 
Well, if and again, the, the 

663
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,400
person who exercises some level 
of stoicism, at least on the 

664
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,920
surface, they may be closer to 
God. 

665
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,760
You're talking about like you 
have people with similar, 

666
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,880
similar morals that you that 
don't, that don't know this God.

667
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,680
Well, you know, to that person 
who's who's struggling with this

668
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,640
end of things, who has to be in 
control at all times. 

669
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,320
Well, we look at we look at the 
life of Jesus and it's 

670
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,560
ridiculous. 
He got incredibly angry. 

671
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,880
I mean, angry enough to flip 
tables and make a whip. 

672
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:32,080
But actually, the emotion that 
the New Testament writers write 

673
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,320
about Jesus, more than any other
emotion, is the fact that he was

674
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,000
sad. 
He wept. 

675
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,120
He. 
Grieved often. 

676
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,640
And so I mean, you know, God 
himself grieves and he allows 

677
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,560
himself to feel the weight of 
disappointment. 

678
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:54,360
He he allows himself to feel the
weight of being turned away when

679
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,600
he has given everything to that 
person. 

680
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,960
I mean, look at look at Jesus's 
best friends. 

681
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,760
He warned him. 
He's like, hey, guys, like I'm, 

682
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,600
I'm going to go through some 
some pretty bad stuff here. 

683
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,440
I want you with me. 
All the while knowing that they 

684
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,600
were going to run. 
Now for the Stoic, you know what

685
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,160
you do? 
If you kind of knew that your 

686
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,520
friends were going to ditch you 
at your worst moment in life, 

687
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,640
you wouldn't be friends with him
in the 1st place. 

688
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,760
You'd be like, I'm not going to 
put myself through that. 

689
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,600
I'll just do it alone. 
But had Jesus done his mission 

690
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,280
alone, we wouldn't be talking 
about him today because He 

691
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,960
wouldn't have let anybody in. 
And so the fact that he did let 

692
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,440
people and the fact that he knew
they were going to mess up and 

693
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,440
and he's going to love them 
anyway, man, that's a, that's a 

694
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,640
level of vulnerability that like
we need to exercise as well. 

695
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,240
Because yes, we're going to be 
on the wrong end of that 

696
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:46,520
sometimes. 
We're going to get hurt 

697
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,960
sometimes. 
But to make yourself emotionally

698
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,560
unavailable is to not be 
available to God. 

699
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,360
And that's a major problem. 
Yeah, and this yeah. 

700
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,840
So it's interesting. 
That's his his nose. 

701
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:07,600
Well, most noted, most noted 
emotional reaction in the New 

702
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,680
Testament. 
I don't know if when I when I 

703
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,560
was coming up through 
confirmation and I've even heard

704
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,760
about it joked, joked about by 
Conferman since then. 

705
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,000
If you have to do like a memory 
verse or, or, or explain a, a 

706
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,120
life verse or something, there's
always one student in every 

707
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,440
class that is just like what I'm
doing. 

708
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,480
Jesus wept shortest verse in the
Bible. 

709
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,920
Jesus wept. 
That's my memory verse, right? 

710
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,560
And it's always it's John 1135. 
If it's his reaction to Lazarus 

711
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,520
being dead. 
But what you just kind of 

712
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,080
outlined the reaction from the 
teacher or I've always seen even

713
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,120
some students that I've been 
teaching and interacting with is

714
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:56,040
if if you can make a meaningful 
lesson, if you can explain why 

715
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,320
that's meaningful for your faith
and for your relationship with 

716
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,560
Jesus, sure, you can use Jesus 
wept. 

717
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,960
So to have that explanation from
you on how that breaks down 

718
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,080
vulnerability, breaks down this 
stoicism in this example of 

719
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,640
Jesus. 
Yeah, Jesus, that is a 

720
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,680
significant verse. 
That is a significant feeling 

721
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:25,080
and reaction and an appropriate 
emotion from him in caring about

722
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,960
the relationships that he has in
this example from Jesus. 

723
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,760
Absolutely. 
I thank you for saying that 

724
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,120
because it just. 
Streamed into my consciousness. 

725
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,640
But I think again, that that 
puts a very nice stamp on, on 

726
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,320
this argument for, you know, 
Christianity in the midst of no,

727
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,240
I need to, I need to have 
self-control and I need to, I, I

728
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:52,760
need to not, I need to not be 
potentially hurt, you know, 

729
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,800
like, so I thank you for saying 
that. 

730
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,680
That's awesome. 
So there's a couple more just 

731
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,760
kind of takeaways from this. 
You were largely in Acts 17 

732
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,280
yesterday. 
The second-half of it, Paul 

733
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,920
tells the people there or he 
maybe observes that they are 

734
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,960
very religious. 
What what is this conclusion 

735
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,640
that he's making the start of 
this passage is he noticed he 

736
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,920
was greatly distressed to see 
that the city was full of idols,

737
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,560
right? 
That's verse 16 in chapter 17. 

738
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,080
So is it from that that he 
concludes they're very 

739
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,200
religious. 
What is what are the signs that 

740
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,600
and and what does it mean? 
What does he mean? 

741
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,280
Is that a compliment? 
Is it just a What are the bounds

742
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,240
of being religious? 
Yeah. 

743
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:47,840
And so, I mean, in in his world,
you know, the the very religious

744
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,200
thing, he's not saying that. 
I mean, he's kind of saying it 

745
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,280
tongue in cheek because they're 
very religious for all the wrong

746
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,280
reasons. 
But what he's getting at in the 

747
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:01,120
original context is, you know, 
everything that they do is 

748
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,200
because I'm worshipping this God
or honoring that God. 

749
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,320
So like there's this level of 
self justification of saying, 

750
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,760
well, I can do this because it 
honors this random God of this 

751
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,000
thing. 
So I can go cheat on my spouse 

752
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,240
on Thursday night when they're 
having the big festival at this 

753
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:22,320
thing because, well, I'm 
honoring the God, you know, 

754
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,880
'cause the sake of this God 
says, oh, I need to use my body 

755
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,400
for pleasure and so on and so 
forth. 

756
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,280
And so there's this reverse 
justification of things and it's

757
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,720
really kind of sad. 
So he's not wrong when he says 

758
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,200
they're very religious because 
they're going to, they're going 

759
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,960
to point to every decision they 
make being honoring to one God 

760
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,120
or another. 
So like, yeah, you can be a 

761
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,040
quote UN quote very religious 
person. 

762
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,920
Even modern day, if you are 
worshipping or you have a God in

763
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,400
mind who always justifies your 
actions, then you're very 

764
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,840
religious. 
So let's say you're the, let's 

765
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,760
say you're the person who's 
like, well, I don't drink, smoke

766
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,520
or play cards or date girls who 
do you know? 

767
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,440
And so like, oh, yes, he's very 
religious. 

768
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,160
Look at how morally upstanding 
he is. 

769
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,480
And he refuses to do this and 
this and this and this. 

770
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:12,840
Wow. 
He's very religious person. 

771
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,040
Yeah. 
But do you know God? 

772
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,640
But do you know God? 
Because if you, if you know the 

773
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,160
real God of the universe, the 
real God of the Bible, you know 

774
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,560
that he is not a God of 
micromanagement, nor is he a God

775
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:32,360
who he expects perfect moral 
behavior, but only knowing that 

776
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,600
Jesus is going to be, he's going
to do that expectation on our 

777
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,320
behalf, right. 
And so, you know, I, I look at 

778
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,360
the, the quote, UN quote, very 
religious people and it's kind 

779
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,760
of a cliche in the church world.
Like I don't want religion. 

780
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,440
I want relationship. 
As cliche as that is, it's still

781
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,280
true. 
Yeah, like it makes sense. 

782
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,600
And did you say yesterday or is 
it, it might be something else 

783
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,280
in the recesses of my brain. 
Did you say every sin is a 

784
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,360
replacement for God? 
Did you say that yesterday? 

785
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,200
So there's Oh my gosh, I don't 
have the quote directly in front

786
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,000
of me. 
Hold on, maybe I do. 

787
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,880
Because that's right in line 
with Paul also talks about to 

788
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,320
these people about the objects 
of their worship in this 

789
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,960
passage. 
And I've long been of the train 

790
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,360
of thought that like every, 
every sin, every sin we commit 

791
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,880
violates the first commandment 
that you should, you shall have 

792
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,920
no other gods before me. 
So like kind of in the same vein

793
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,000
of it, every, every sin is a 
replacement for God. 

794
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,160
Every sin is making a God. 
And I think that's what Paul's 

795
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,440
kind of talking about being very
religious. 

796
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,640
They have, they have a reason, 
they have a justification, they 

797
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,960
have a God, an idol for 
everything, for every action 

798
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,160
that is allowing that is 
justifying, that is permitting 

799
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,120
them to take these actions, 
right? 

800
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,800
And I think that's what we do. 
That's what we do with our sin, 

801
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,200
right? 
It's for, well, yes, this is, 

802
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,360
this is, this is gluttony, but I
enjoy it. 

803
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:08,600
It's it's, it's, it's bounty 
from above that God that God 

804
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:13,200
wants me to that God wants me to
partake in or rather than 

805
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,920
engaging in a spirit of 
self-control, right? 

806
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,400
Like we, we we do it with all 
the things, right? 

807
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,880
No, it's true. 
The the quote that I gave is 

808
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,240
actually from Simone Weil. 
I think I'm saying that 

809
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:27,840
correctly. 
And the idea? 

810
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,840
Well the quote is every sin is 
an attempt to fill a void. 

811
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,160
Oh yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, is an attempt to fill a 

812
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,520
void. 
And that's, man, I think she 

813
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,800
kind of nailed it on the head. 
So, you know, I don't know. 

814
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,680
Sure, same thing 'cause we're, 
we haven't, we haven't put God 

815
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,920
in that place. 
We, we haven't looked to God for

816
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,560
our fulfillment in all things. 
So if we don't have our eyes on 

817
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,760
that or or he's in the status 
still of unknown God, then yes, 

818
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,280
that sin that we're engaging in 
is is a futile attempt to meet 

819
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,160
that need in a in a sinful way. 
Right. 

820
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,680
So I think, you know, for the 
for the very religious person 

821
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,520
today, that doesn't necessarily 
have to carry a negative 

822
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,440
connotation. 
If my religion is built on the 

823
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,560
premise of what God says is most
important, I need to put him 

824
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:24,080
above all things. 
I need to put him in first place

825
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,760
and then I need to love my 
neighbor. 

826
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,480
Well, I need to love my neighbor
the way I love myself, you know,

827
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,040
and of course, like our closest 
neighbor, quote UN quote, is 

828
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,360
going are going to be the people
in our very home. 

829
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,640
So how do I start there? 
Well, we talked about this 

830
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,240
recently. 
The, the, the closer I am to 

831
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:46,520
God, the better husband I'm 
going to be, you know, and, and 

832
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,640
you can go back and listen to 
that whole talk, but it's true. 

833
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,560
It's just absolutely true. 
And so if I'm very religious in 

834
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,800
that sense of like, I love God, 
I'm really putting him first, 

835
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,720
and then I'm really living a 
life of service for my neighbor,

836
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,120
then yes, you could call me very
religious if I'm doing that 

837
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,520
well, or you could say in a 
negative context, Well, he's 

838
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,200
very religious because they 
withhold themselves from, you 

839
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,520
know, everything that everybody 
else is doing. 

840
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,320
And so look, they're uppity and 
religious. 

841
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,720
And so that's the more negative 
context of of what that might 

842
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,160
sound like. 
Yeah, so that's that's where he 

843
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,080
kind of starts with assessing 
their situation. 

844
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:29,400
You are very religious. 
You have these objects of your 

845
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,320
worship. 
You got a reason for everything.

846
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:37,080
And then he gets to this, this 
statue to an unknown God. 

847
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,120
And I've always heard, I've 
always heard this passage after,

848
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,560
after going through all of these
things, like you, you have a God

849
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,240
for everything. 
I've always kind of thought of 

850
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:50,760
this unknown God as being just 
like the catch all for 

851
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,800
everything else. 
Like like this, we're not even 

852
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,560
sure what we're going to need a 
God for. 

853
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,920
So we're just, we're just going 
to cover all our bases and any 

854
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,600
of our unknowns are captured in 
this one entity. 

855
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,720
Like we just we've got a God for
that, right? 

856
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,280
Like there's there's an easy 
button for that, right? 

857
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,360
But it draws back to what you 
your your main thrust 2 weeks 

858
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,080
ago. 
Why are we, why are you doing 

859
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,560
what you're doing? 
Like why are you doing this? 

860
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:25,040
And if in fact, God is unknown, 
any aspect of him is unknown. 

861
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,120
Again, you pull that question in
and all of a sudden, like, man, 

862
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,920
it doesn't really seem to make 
sense because what box am I 

863
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,040
checking? 
What am, what am I trying to do 

864
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,320
here? 
I'm trying to please something 

865
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,240
that I can't even put my hands 
on that I can't know, that I 

866
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,520
can't understand. 
Like, no, that's not that 

867
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:46,720
helpful, man. 
Like so going back to that 

868
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,760
question, I just, I love that 
question. 

869
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,040
I think it's so good and it's so
pointed and it, gosh, we need to

870
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,440
ask ourselves that all the time.
We do and you and you can almost

871
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,400
feel the frustration from Paul 
here like you guys are you 

872
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,240
people are very religious. 
You have objects of worship like

873
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,800
you're so close, you get it. 
And I think even this unknown 

874
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,920
God is they understand that 
there's something greater than 

875
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,960
them that. 
Is. 

876
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,280
Unknowable in the sense that 
you, you can't contain them or, 

877
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:23,360
or, or put them in a box or 
fully understand them and, and 

878
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,640
it is superior to them. 
So like, and they, and they have

879
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,560
all these religious attitudes. 
They have all these objects of 

880
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:30,720
work. 
And he's like, you guys, you 

881
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,680
guys are so close, but you're, 
you're putting your faith in the

882
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,520
wrong things. 
You're put you're putting your 

883
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:43,040
faith in the things that fade 
away and ultimately the the 

884
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:48,080
danger for us now who know who 
know the true God, who know the 

885
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,640
living God. 
And there's there's words of 

886
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,600
caution. 
Hear from Paul to like, do you 

887
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,800
acknowledge the creator of all 
things? 

888
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,960
Do do you understand that there 
is something greater than you 

889
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:06,360
and you maybe even call him by 
name, but do you really know him

890
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,800
or, or is he still at arm's 
reach? 

891
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:15,800
Is it still this stoic lack of 
vulnerability or or the OR the 

892
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,000
Epicurean? 
I'm going to do it myself adage.

893
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,400
I don't need God for that 
attitude. 

894
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,920
In that way. 
Even I think he's cautioning 

895
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,920
even some of them that maybe 
acknowledge the one true God, 

896
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,440
but he's he's kept a distant, 
he's kept afar, he's kept like 

897
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,880
break glass in case of 
emergencies sort of thing, which

898
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,520
I think is but, but I think 
that's really where to go back 

899
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,960
to How do you how do you talk to
these people about Jesus sort of

900
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,680
thing with the Epicurean, the 
free thinker, the the one who 

901
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,440
has everything figured out for 
themselves. 

902
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,080
When, when are they most 
vulnerable? 

903
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,680
When are they most ready to let 
God into their life? 

904
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,960
When that all falls apart, 
right? 

905
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,600
When they don't have answers in 
and of themselves and their own 

906
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,520
strength, then they're ready for
God. 

907
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,160
It's that it's that emergency 
God sort of scenario, right? 

908
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,200
Oh, my goodness, if you don't 
use that sometime in the near 

909
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,440
future, I'm going to because 
that is that is so spot on. 

910
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,880
That is maybe the best little 
illustration I've I've ever 

911
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:24,160
heard for like, hey, he's 
unknown until I need him and 

912
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,440
then I'm going to seek him out 
with all intensity. 

913
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,600
Yeah. 
Isn't that what most of us do 

914
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,040
all of the time? 
My goodness. 

915
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,440
But the, the gospel makes it 
very clear that God, well, and 

916
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,720
we've said it before, God wrote 
himself into our story quite 

917
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:44,040
literally by, by becoming a man 
in the person of Jesus Christ. 

918
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,680
And so, yeah, to the extent that
God can make himself known in a 

919
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,000
way that we can actually wrap 
our heads and actually wrap our 

920
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,800
arms around, Yep, he has made 
himself known. 

921
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,600
And in his revelation, in his 
word, we have numerous, numerous

922
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,600
eyewitness accounts of him 
making himself fully known, 

923
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,360
fully available. 
And so man God, for, for 

924
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:11,840
anybody, God is fully available.
He's not distant, He's right 

925
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:13,720
there. 
And even though Jesus doesn't 

926
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:17,840
walk with us today, He has given
us his Holy Spirit, which for 

927
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,560
anybody who's experienced peace 
in a situation where they have 

928
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,760
no right to have any peace 
whatsoever by any human 

929
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:30,240
standard, man God is dwelling in
you and you. 

930
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:35,360
He knows you and you know him in
such an intimate way, in a way 

931
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,040
more intimate way than I can 
even know my wife or my kids. 

932
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,440
Like way more intimate. 
So like, I, I don't know, man, I

933
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,920
think, I think he's right there.
Yeah, Yeah, it's a good word. 

934
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,480
So just wrapping up those couple
of things that the Epicurean 

935
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,760
sort of worldview, I really 
think the way to approach that 

936
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,240
person in your life who's very 
headstrong, who's very 

937
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:01,520
independent, who doesn't 
seemingly have a need for God, 

938
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:07,000
portraying God, portraying Jesus
as an ally, as an enhancement to

939
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,720
their life, not not an enemy. 
Because I think those words can 

940
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:15,160
be heard as assaultive as as you
need to replace your life with 

941
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,760
God. 
That may again, that may be true

942
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,280
in some aspects. 
They they may need to do that 

943
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,960
with some aspects of their life,
especially the sinful aspects of

944
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,280
their life. 
That has to happen. 

945
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,000
There needs to be repentance and
and reconciliation there with 

946
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,720
God. 
But for the the Stoic, it's 

947
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:38,160
important to let God in, right? 
It's it's important to be 

948
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,960
available emotionally, 
relationally with God in that 

949
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:48,840
example of Jesus, to allow 
yourself to experience hurt that

950
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:56,640
only God can heal to to be in a 
place that that only love can 

951
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,080
win, right? 
That's that's ultimately the 

952
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,200
design that God has for our 
relationship and it's really how

953
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,480
he engages in relationship with 
us. 

954
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:12,760
We we've so rebelled, we have so
broken sin has twisted and 

955
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:17,160
distorted and destroyed 
relationship with him in a way 

956
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:22,080
that only he can heal in a way 
that only Jesus can reconcile 

957
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,240
for us. 
So, so those are the ways that I

958
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:27,680
think we approach these kind of 
two different groups of people 

959
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,720
in in just it's OK to feel for 
the stoics. 

960
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,240
We see this example in Jesus and
and it's it's the way that we're

961
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:39,920
supposed to be, to feel these 
extremes of love and 

962
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,920
disappointment. 
One of the interesting things 

963
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,360
I've heard is that when you 
become a Christian, if, if 

964
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,960
you're struggling with like, you
know, controlling emotions in 

965
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,120
the wrong sense of like, I don't
let them out. 

966
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,200
I don't, I don't let that happen
to me. 

967
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,840
I'm in control. 
The ironic thing about becoming 

968
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,400
a Christian and becoming close 
to God is you get to become more

969
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,520
like him. 
Therefore you will actually feel

970
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,480
more broken hearted. 
And some people don't want that 

971
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:10,800
heat. 
But I'm. 

972
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,360
Very uncomfortable. 
I'm telling you, man, like the 

973
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,960
some of the worst days I've ever
had because emotions were 

974
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,760
overwhelming are also the best 
days of my life because they 

975
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:27,000
taught me so much and and I and 
I had an experience to be able 

976
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:32,280
to love and care for somebody 
and in a way that I could have 

977
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:37,000
never done had we not 
experienced the worst emotional 

978
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,520
things that can happen to a 
human. 

979
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,680
So. 
That's where we're going to 

980
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,320
leave it for today. 
Thanks for hanging out for 

981
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,760
Leftovers and continuing the 
conversation here. 

982
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,000
We went a little long, but 
that's right. 

983
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,760
Enjoyed chatting with you and 
following up the message from 

984
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,520
yesterday. 
If you have any thoughts on the 

985
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,920
the smells conversation at the 
beginning of the episode, feel 

986
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,320
free to drop your comments in 
the show below or on the the 

987
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,360
Facebook post on that comment 
feed there you had you had this 

988
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,720
really good quote that we just 
didn't work into our discussion 

989
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,760
today. 
I'm just going to let you close 

990
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,840
out the show with it and we're 
just going to let it sit. 

991
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,280
So have a blessed week. 
Church. 

992
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,680
Here's here's the final 
thoughts. 

993
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,160
Evelyn Underhill says if God 
were small enough to be 

994
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,360
understood, he wouldn't be big 
enough to worship.