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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here. 
And I specifically want to 

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welcome you if you are not a 
manager yet, or if you are a 

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manager and you have been 
managing people for a very long 

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time, I mention this because in 
the last week, I've had a couple

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of conversations with folks, who
said, oh you have a podcast for 

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new managers. 
I'm not a manager, but I really 

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want to hear Hear what you have 
to teach and say about it. 

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And so I just specifically 
wanted to shout out to you folks

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who are not officially people. 
Managers of course you're 

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welcome here because you'll 
learn things that will prepare 

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you for that next level and 
you'll learn things that you can

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start to use. 
Now even before you have 

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officially a team or a person 
reporting up to you. 

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And this also is true if you 
have Managing people for a long 

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time and you might simply want a
fresh perspective or a new way 

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of managing people. 
My objective is that for you 

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listening wherever you are in 
your career and want to equip 

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you, to people better with 
people at work. 

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I really think that is how we 
manage effectively, as when we 

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think, in terms of I have to, I 
have to be a person with other 

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people. 
How do we do that? 

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At within the work context. 
So welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I want 
to talk to you today about 

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feedback as a service. 
And I think of this topic as 

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something that helps to relieve 
the pressure. 

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When you think about giving 
feedback, what I see most often 

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is that people tend to either 
become over controlling or over 

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avoidant. 
Meaning, you're giving feedback 

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In an attempt to Over Control, a
person's behavior and how they 

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do things, this can turn into 
micromanaging. 

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Or it can also look like simply 
being very reactive. 

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The reason I'm giving feedback 
is because something is 

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happening that I don't like, and
I need to change this in this 

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other person now. 
So we get over controlling over 

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prescriptive overbearing, we 
Just overdo it, on the control 

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side, the corollary to, this is 
being over avoidant, which is 

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when we avoid giving feedback, 
we don't do it because it's 

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uncomfortable. 
We are avoiding a confrontation.

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We are avoiding. 
What feels like conflict, we're 

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avoiding the other person's 
emotions or worried that they 

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won't take it. 
Well, we're avoiding our own. 

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Ins because we think we want to 
do it, right. 

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We're already judging ourselves.
Like, I don't want to do this. 

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I don't know how to do this 
effectively. 

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So when you're a manager, either
one of those will get in the way

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of working effectively together,
and it just gets in the way of 

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having an enjoyable work 
experience. 

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Let's be honest when we're 
either avoiding giving feedback 

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or we are trying to overcome Our
control of giving feedback, both

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of those create really 
difficult, like a really 

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difficult environment to do best
work. 

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So one story that comes to mind 
that I wanted to share about 

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this with someone, I was 
coaching and she had been 

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friends with someone at work and
then she got promoted to that 

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person's manager and she was 
really struggling with trying to

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balance. 
How do I give feedback to this 

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person who is my friend? 
But they're also. 

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They also report to me and like 
they're not like something is 

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not happening that needs to be 
happening. 

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And this person really 
demonstrated both of these. 

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So first she was overbearing and
oh, like I need to help my 

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friend out and give her a very 
precise and specific feedback 

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about what she needs to do. 
And that was not met well that 

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created friction. 
So then she overcorrected and 

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was like fine, I'll just be 
completely hands-off. 

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I'm going to trust you to figure
this out on your own, but then 

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didn't provide any perspective 
or ongoing, you know, like 

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response at all. 
And then, at the end of the half

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of the year, did the performance
review, and was like, yeah, like

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there are all these things you 
didn't do, right. 

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And this person was 
understandably, very upset. 

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Like the why didn't you tell me?
And this manager had felt so 

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conflicted and so confused. 
And so, you know, frustrated and

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sad because the sense of Like I 
want to be a friend to this 

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person but I'm also their 
manager and how do I give 

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feedback? 
Like I just felt she. 

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She really demonstrated 
something that a lot of us go 

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through when we're trying to 
navigate, like how do you give 

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feedback? 
So what I offered to her and 

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then I want to offer to you is 
this perspective of feedback as 

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a service and what's nice about 
feedback as a service is, it 

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starts to ease the pressure from
Instead of thinking, like I have

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to give feedback correctly, 
which gets you into 

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self-judgment instead, you're 
thinking of part of my job, as a

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manager is to be of service to 
this person and give them 

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feedback, I need them to know 
what they're doing. 

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Well, I need them to know where 
they might be off track with 

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respect to our agreed upon goals
and expectations. 

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I need to communicate with them 
so that they have the 

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information they need. 
They need to be able to make 

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adjustments, so they can be 
successful so that if they need 

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extra support, I can understand 
what that is and I can see where

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resources are available for 
them. 

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When you think in terms of 
feedback as a service allows you

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to connect more clearly with the
compassion part of, being a 

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human interacting with another 
human. 

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But it doesn't end tangle you in
a friendship Dynamic, which 

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sometimes can happen. 
You can give feedback as a 

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service to somebody. 
Whether there they are your 

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friend or not. 
And this is so helpful because 

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there will be times when you 
work with people that you really

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might not be friends with. 
And that's okay. 

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You can have different 
personalities, different styles.

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It might be difficult to find a 
sense of rapport with them, but 

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when you're thinking in terms of
feedback as a service, it kind 

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of brings you back to the sense 
of we're on the same side, we're

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on the same team and it's okay 
for us to be different kinds of 

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people. 
Like my role as a manager is not

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that you like Like me or that we
want to be best friends. 

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I mean if that happens great, 
but my job as a manager is, I 

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really am here to be of service 
to the people on my team, to the

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organization in which my team 
sits to the customers and 

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clients that we serve, I'm here 
to be of service to the 

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community and the ecosystem that
I am a part of in my 

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professional life. 
And I found that that 

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perspective makes it a lot 
easier to wrap your head around.

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Why am I giving this person 
feedback? 

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What am I trying to accomplish? 
What is the outcome? 

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I want this feedback to 
facilitate. 

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Am I looking for a behavior 
change? 

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Am I looking to build trust? 
Am I looking to Improve my own 

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communication skills around 
uncomfortable or difficult 

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topics feedback as a service. 
When you think about it in that 

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way, it changes, you know, the 
lens through, which you're 

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looking, as you're thinking 
through how you want to give 

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feedback to somebody. 
So let's think about, you know, 

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when we're not thinking of that,
what tends to come up is will 

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feel pressure or afraid of 
messing up? 

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And how we give feedback will 
feel fear about damaging the 

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relationship. 
If I give the feedback wrong 

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it'll create more friction. 
There can be a fear that if I 

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give them this feedback, it will
create more problems which can 

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create that sense of avoidance. 
I don't even want to have this 

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conversation, and if you're 
managing, people who have more 

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subject matter expertise than 
you, This one can also like if 

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you're in this Dynamic it can 
create so much self-doubt and so

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much insecurity. 
It will flare up because you'll 

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think who am I to give this 
person feedback? 

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They have more subject matter 
expertise than I do. 

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Maybe my feedback is wrong or if
they challenge me I won't know 

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what to say. 
All of that can come up and get 

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in the way of how and when we 
give feedback also I want to I 

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want to remind you like you 
don't want to rely on feedback 

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as something that happens only 
in reaction to a problem. 

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I really think feedback is one 
of the kind of most 

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misunderstood opportunities for 
how we build relationships. 

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You can use feedback as a way of
Highlighting. 

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Hey I trust you. 
I see the work that you're 

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doing. 
Did you realize you're really 

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skillful at this? 
The way I've seen you, you know,

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do this thing. 
Like I just want to make sure 

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that you see that because it's 
so effortless. 

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You might not realize that this 
is a strength or a skill that 

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you have. 
You can use feedback to build 

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relationships that have nothing 
to do with things being wrong, 

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or not working. 
And when Back is something that 

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we only use in reaction to a 
problem. 

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Then, of course, nobody likes 
it. 

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Of course, every feedback 
conversation, feels fraught with

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pressure and a sense of things 
going wrong and, you know, are 

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like we get defensive our sense 
of defensiveness flares up, and 

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we think I just need to explain 
myself more. 

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This person just doesn't 
understand And it we does. 

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It's not it doesn't have to be 
like. 

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That is really the short story. 
It like it doesn't have to be 

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like that and when we think of 
feedback as a service that also 

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allows us to think in terms of, 
hey, there's something I need to

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share with you. 
That might be hard for you to 

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hear. 
But it's important that we talk 

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about it because, you know, I 
care about what you're doing, I 

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care about the work we're doing.
I want to make sure that this 

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isn't a surprise. 
Let's talk about this now and 

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figure out like what's going on.
It allows us to access this 

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perspective of like I mentioned,
like I'm on your side, we're on 

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the same team. 
And another thing I like to 

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remember is that at work, we We 
have these daily regular 

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relationships with people that 
are not forever relationships. 

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I mean, maybe you become friends
with folks that you maintain for

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a lifetime, but very often 
you're working with people not 

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of your choosing for a period of
time. 

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That is uncertain. 
And my perspective is, we want 

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these relationships to be as 
Healthy and satisfying and 

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effective as possible. 
The sense of hey, as long as 

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we're here working together, 
let's make this good. 

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So feedback, as a service is, I 
want to be able to communicate 

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to you. 
Like what I see, I want to be at

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to be able to ask questions if 
things are not on track. 

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I want us to have a relationship
that is highly functional. 

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Highly, Of and ultimately 
satisfying for all of us. 

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I think that's best both for the
humans within the organization 

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but ultimately the organization 
benefits from that as well and 

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when we think in those terms it 
allows us to connect with 

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compassion to release the sense 
of pressure. 

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And to really have a sense of 
clarity about like, why are we 

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here? 
What are we here to do? 

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Right. 
We are humans. 

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We are human being together in 
this organization and we all 

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want to have the best experience
we can and that might look 

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different for all of us and that
is, okay. 

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Comes back to feedback as a 
service. 

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Here's why I want to share this 
with you because I think it will

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be of service to you. 
This also helps to check us If 

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you're feeling offended if your 
sense of self defense is flaring

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up. 
If you're feeling like you want 

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to give feedback as a kind of 
small Revenge, I want to be 

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really honest, sometimes we give
feedback because we're angry 

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about something and we think I'm
I know exactly what I want to 

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tell them. 
I'm going to tell them in this 

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way, I'm going to be strong 
about it and we bring a little 

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bit of a fight. 
Into this conversation. 

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It's normal. 
It is human. 

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It is not always effective and 
it is not sustainable that kind 

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of motivation, always ends up 
burning out because it is 

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something that we talk through, 
like, in your mind over and over

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and over again. 
So not the best use of time or 

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energy. 
But, hey, I'm acknowledging that

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we are humans and sometimes we 
do this when you think in terms 

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of feedback as a service, It can
provide you with that touch 

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point or that point of 
reflection for yourself where 

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you can be honest and say, yeah,
I really want to say this in 

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this way because I am angry and 
I there's a part of me that 

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wants, you know, to lash out 
because I want them to see this.

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And I want to get a little bit 
of Revenge on them for the way 

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that they've been behaving. 
Instead when we think, okay what

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is it that I want to create 
here? 

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Maybe what I want to create is 
some understanding, maybe what I

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want to do is clear the air like
what is happening here. 

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Maybe what I want to do is 
really have an honest 

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conversation about, what are we 
doing? 

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And how do we want to work 
together? 

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Maybe we need to reset the 
relationship. 

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Or maybe we just need to 
understand is this person. 

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Okay. 
I've shared this story in the 

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past so you I don't remember. 
For which episode but someone 

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that I know had gotten this 
really hard performance review, 

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very hard feedback and when they
thought about it and were like, 

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what is going on like why am i 
showing up and not being a great

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manager, but they realized was 
in their personal life. 

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They were having a really hard 
time with in their marriage and 

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so it was taking all of their 
emotional energy. 

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She and then when they came to 
work, they just didn't have the 

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emotional bandwidth to be 
present, compassionate 

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strategic. 
They showed up reactive 

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impatient very like 
authoritarian in a micromanager 

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kind of way. 
And so you know, once they're 

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able to see oh I can see where 
this is all coming from it, 

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allowed her to really understand
and then shift the way that she 

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Is behaving and building 
relationships at work. 

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So this is really what I wanted 
to share with you today. 

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Is this idea of feedback as a 
service allowing you to connect 

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with your sense of compassion, 
allowing you to not become 

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entangled in friendships, or in 
grudges, to stay aware that we 

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are on the same team. 
We are on the same side here. 

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We are only here for Or a 
limited time. 

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And as long as we are let's make
this good being willing to offer

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feedback from the perspective of
I want to give this to you to be

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in service of you and what 
you're doing and what our 

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objectives and goals are I have 
enjoyed sharing this with you. 

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Thank you so much for listening.
I'll talk to you again next 

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time. 
When you're more effective at 

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work, you're happier in your 
life. 

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And when you're happier in your 
life you're more effective at 

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work. 
I can help go to my website. 

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Kim nickel.com and sign up for a
coaching consult, it can get 

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better.