1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,600 Welcome to the new manager podcast. 2 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:18,000 I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello, and welcome. 3 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:23,200 I want to start today's episode by sending a virtual wave. 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,400 So this is me waving to my listener, Avis Avis, if you're 5 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,900 listening, hello, I'm waving to you and Avis messaged me a few 6 00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:38,400 months ago with this note that said, I've listened to your 7 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,000 podcast and it's helped me as Manager. 8 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Amidst this pandemic. Thank you. 9 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,700 And that just makes my heart feel so good. 10 00:00:48,700 --> 00:00:53,100 I know it is not easy. Being a manager in the midst of 11 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:58,000 all of the things that 2020 offered and I am so glad if I 12 00:00:58,008 --> 00:01:03,800 can help in a small way to just provide a little support, a 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,200 little encouragement, some fresh ideas to that. 14 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,200 You can show up as a manager for your team in your environment. 15 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:14,400 Mint and Bo greatest service to them. 16 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:19,300 So you are so welcome and thank you for listening and for caring 17 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:21,800 about your work and the people that you work. 18 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:29,200 With, in today's episode I want to explore this question. 19 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:38,600 What are you avoiding? And I wanted to sort of open the 20 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,200 year with this question. What are you avoiding? 21 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,500 Because it's such an interesting question. 22 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,400 Depending on what comes up. This is something that I include 23 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,000 when I'm teaching about feedback. 24 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:59,000 Like what is the feedback you are avoiding giving to someone 25 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:04,600 or what is the feedback you are avoiding asking for? 26 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:10,100 So I wanted to give this its own episode to expand on this topic 27 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:12,000 for you because I think it's really Really helpful, 28 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,500 especially at the beginning of the year. 29 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:20,200 So what are you avoiding? And it might be around feedback. 30 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,100 Like I was just talking about, there might be someone you work 31 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:25,500 with and you have been holding back. 32 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:30,400 You have not been giving them feedback because you are 33 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,300 uncomfortable or you're worried about how they'll react or you 34 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:38,200 might be worried that you won't do it right or there's you know 35 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,100 some reason why you have not given this feedback. 36 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,700 You might be avoiding a decision. 37 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,900 Maybe there's a decision that you need to make and you keep 38 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:53,600 putting it off. It might be a conversation. 39 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,200 Is there a conversation that you really need to have? 40 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,200 And this might be in your work life or your personal life you 41 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,800 know. This podcast is about the 42 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,300 workspace but who we are as people in our life outside of 43 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:17,000 work one, 100% influences the way that we show up at work. 44 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,500 So maybe there is a conversation that you have been avoiding that 45 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:25,000 you need to have outside of work but because you're think about 46 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,600 it a lot or it's causing stress or a sense of anxiety for you. 47 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:33,100 You're showing up at work and you're bringing that stress and 48 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:36,800 excited with you, there might be a goal. 49 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,900 Is there a goal that you have that you are avoiding? 50 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,600 That's an Interesting one, especially the time at this time 51 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,100 of year as we think about what are our goals or intentions both 52 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:53,000 in terms of the business but also in terms of you as a leader 53 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,000 you in your career, what are the goals that you have for 54 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,700 yourself? And is there something that you 55 00:03:57,700 --> 00:04:01,800 are avoiding is? There may be some kind of 56 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,900 learning that you are avoiding. Oh, I know I need to learn how 57 00:04:05,908 --> 00:04:08,700 to do this, but I'll get to it later. 58 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:11,100 I don't have time I don't know how to get started. 59 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,300 Added. So take a moment if you will. 60 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,800 And when presented with this question, what are you avoiding 61 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:25,900 notice what comes up And if there is more than one thing, I 62 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:30,400 mean make a little list. Oh my gosh, if you have like a 63 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,200 little, you know, a little ache in your body and you've been 64 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,100 avoiding going to the doctor and having it checked out. 65 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:42,800 That's a big one. If there's a letter And you 66 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,500 haven't opened it yet because you're just worried about what 67 00:04:47,500 --> 00:04:49,500 that piece of mail. What that letter will say. 68 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:52,800 So, take a moment right down? You know, what are you avoiding? 69 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,200 And then make a list of what some of those things are, notice 70 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,900 what that is for you. And one of the reasons it's 71 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:06,900 important to get curious about this is it takes a lot of energy 72 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:12,800 to be in avoidance. We are avoiding Eating a 73 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:19,200 conversation, a decision, a person, and action, all of these 74 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,400 different things that we are avoiding, it really takes a lot 75 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,700 of energy and it ends up taking up space in our mind. 76 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,200 And that over time is just not helpful. 77 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,300 It becomes draining it creates even more resistance and it 78 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:41,500 takes up even more energy. So it's really important that we 79 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:52,700 have the awareness of what is it that I am avoiding. once you 80 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:58,100 have a sense of what you are, avoiding, My next question for 81 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:02,600 you, is what is your rationalization for that? 82 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,400 What are your reasons? And this is also a really fun 83 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,300 question, because if your brain is like, mine it go, it's going 84 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,400 to come up with lots of really smart reasons to justify why you 85 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,400 are avoiding a thing. Maybe the reason you're avoiding 86 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,700 is you because I'm just I'm too busy. 87 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:28,200 I don't have the time I'm overwhelmed or maybe it's from a 88 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,100 perceived lack of information. I don't have all the information 89 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:33,600 yet. I can't make a choice. 90 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,800 I can't decide or I don't know how I would do that. 91 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:41,700 So I'm avoiding it altogether. Maybe it's from a fear of 92 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:44,600 perfection. Like I have to have everything 93 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:51,800 be perfect before I'm able to Move forward on it or maybe it's 94 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,600 around of fear, like a fear of discomfort, oh, I'm so afraid 95 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,600 that this conversation will be so uncomfortable, so afraid that 96 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,900 this person won't take feedback in the right way. 97 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:08,900 I'm so afraid. If I ask my manager or ask my 98 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,400 boss for something that I want this year, and my growth, I'm 99 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,300 worried that they'll say no or that, I will feel bad. 100 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:26,900 Notice what is your internal rationale for why you are 101 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:31,000 avoiding it because you probably have a really good reason. 102 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,600 You know, a really good reason. It can be a simple as oh my gosh 103 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,000 when we are when we bring this more to home so when there's 104 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,700 something and I know I need to do but I feel uncomfortable 105 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:47,900 about it or I just feel like it's going to take so much time 106 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:50,300 or energy. I'll find something else to do. 107 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,900 That seems really urgent. Oh, you know what? 108 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:55,100 I really need to clean the kitchen right now. 109 00:07:55,900 --> 00:08:00,100 Oh, I really should know. Do some laundry. 110 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,500 Oh, you know what? I really am. 111 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:04,400 You love little hungry. I'm gonna go get a snack. 112 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,200 It is amazing. How creative the mind is. 113 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:15,400 When it wants to avoid something like you will find other things 114 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:21,900 to do and talk yourself into why being an avoidance is actually 115 00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:25,600 fine. It's a way of delaying blue, and 116 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,200 another one that I want to share with you is especially around 117 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,200 learning because this Is one that I go through when I'm 118 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,600 learning new things and also I see my students and my clients 119 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,799 go through it. But when we're learning 120 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:44,600 something new, there's that period of discomfort where you 121 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,700 feel like you're not totally in control because you can't do it 122 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:52,200 just right. And so you put this pressure on 123 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,300 yourself and it also feels uncomfortable to feel not good 124 00:08:57,300 --> 00:09:00,800 at things. Like this is true for a lot of 125 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,800 us especially If we work in a field where there's very high 126 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,700 scrutiny about being correct about doing things correctly, 127 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:14,600 doing things, right, it tends to reduce our willingness to learn 128 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:20,300 when we will have to appear or when we will feel incompetent at 129 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:23,200 something. That's one that can be really 130 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,100 tricky and that's important to notice because if you get stuck 131 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:30,500 feeling, like you always have to be the, the one who knows. 132 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,300 And the one who has all of Of the answers and does everything 133 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:38,300 correctly. It's really hard to grow and you 134 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:41,700 end up with holding from yourself. 135 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:49,400 A possibility of becoming better and of growing Beyond where 136 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,800 you're at right now. And I think one thing that the 137 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,900 last year has really shown us is that there will be times when 138 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,000 you will feel totally incompetent and you won't be 139 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,600 prepared and you won't know how to deal with something and 140 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,400 you're still called to respond in the best way that you can and 141 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,500 it's unavoidable. We've learned a lot about that 142 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:14,900 in the last year. So notice for yourself. 143 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:21,000 What is your minds rationalization for why you are 144 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:27,100 avoiding a thing? Once you've done that, the next 145 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:33,500 step is to ask yourself, okay? So what is the result of that? 146 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:41,500 What is the result when I avoid when I rationalize? 147 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:45,600 Why, what is the result? And this can become really 148 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,700 interesting. I've noticed in my own life when 149 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:51,900 this shows up for me and it what's interesting is I have 150 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:55,000 seen this come up with a lot of my students and a lot of my 151 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,000 clients also. So some of the things that come 152 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,100 up as a result of that avoidance and the rationalization 153 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:08,900 resentment, Shows up, you either feel resentment towards another 154 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:12,100 person. Like you blame them for putting 155 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:13,500 you. In this uncomfortable situation, 156 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:17,900 it might sound in your head. Like, I wish this colleague of 157 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:22,100 mine would just pull it together because they're going to make me 158 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:24,900 have to tell them that I've noticed, they're not doing a 159 00:11:24,908 --> 00:11:28,000 good job and then we're going to have a big confrontation and, 160 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,600 you know if only they could just do their work correctly, we 161 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,100 wouldn't have to do this so you can get into a place of Feeling 162 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:38,600 resentment for another person, but you can also feel resentful 163 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,900 for yourself. Like, if you're a person and you 164 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:47,900 notice, I am avoiding something. I have been delaying, I have 165 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:51,600 been, do you know Finding other things to do? 166 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:57,800 Because it lets me not be in the discomfort of doing the thing. 167 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,500 You can direct that resentment to yourself. it also is 168 00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:08,900 exhausting the result that arrives when we avoid and we 169 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:13,900 rationalize all of that takes a lot of energy and Meanwhile 170 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:19,200 we're not moving forward and so that starts to feel exhausting 171 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,600 other feelings that can come up as a result, we can start to 172 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:29,100 feel bitter or stuck or we compensate in other ways. 173 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,500 So if you're working with someone and you have avoided, 174 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:38,200 giving them feedback because you are uncomfortable about how that 175 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,100 conversation will go, you will compensate by either working 176 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:50,000 around them or trying to find a way to make what you know what 177 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600 Where is the problem with their? With their work? 178 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,600 Like you'll find a way to kind of make things work and still be 179 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,200 good enough. Like it's amazing how we can 180 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,000 invest the energy and the creativity into the process of 181 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,600 avoiding because we are so uncomfortable with, like, 182 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:16,200 whatever that thing is. And once you can start to see 183 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,600 this, right? Like, what am I avoiding, what 184 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,400 is my rationalization for that? What is the result? 185 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:32,300 That comes up when I avoid and rationalize it, then I want you 186 00:13:32,308 --> 00:13:36,400 to ask what alternatives do I have? 187 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:42,600 And also what do I need to move forward? 188 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:52,200 And this is where. You start to take back some of 189 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:58,500 the energy and some of your creativity and you start to use 190 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:07,700 it to find a path forward. And I just want to let you like 191 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:16,400 let that sink in for a moment. Because it's really easy to miss 192 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,800 like the power of these two questions. 193 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,700 What are your Alternatives? What else might you do? 194 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,400 What do you need to move forward? 195 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:37,100 And call upon your creativity and your energy to help you 196 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:45,400 answer those questions. All of it begins with asking. 197 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:52,200 What is it that you're avoiding? And at the root of it, it always 198 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,100 comes down to some form of discomfort. 199 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,400 There's something that you perceive, or, there's something 200 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,500 that you are imagining, is going to be uncomfortable. 201 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:08,200 And the truth is, it might be the thing you need to do might 202 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:14,500 feel risky, it might feel uncomfortable, but the more you 203 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:19,300 avoid it, the more you resist it, the more, it just stays 204 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:23,700 there and you then become even more stuck and you keep 205 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,200 investing all of this energy to work around it or to avoid it or 206 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,500 to resent it. And things begin to change. 207 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:38,000 When you can take a deep breath, kind of look at the situation 208 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,300 plainly and say, okay? This is going to be 209 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:47,500 uncomfortable. I'm okay with that because that 210 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:51,100 is how I move forward. I'm going to say this one more 211 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:55,500 time, but in a different way. So the question around, what do 212 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:59,000 you need to move forward? The answer might be. 213 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,900 I need to be okay with the discomfort. 214 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:09,200 Of this thing. I need to be okay with the 215 00:16:09,208 --> 00:16:14,100 discomfort of this conversation. I need to be okay with the 216 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:18,400 uncertainty of making a decision without all the information. 217 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,700 I need to be okay with the discomfort of having a direct 218 00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:28,900 conversation with somebody. I need to be okay with the 219 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:34,100 discomfort of not, knowing exactly how it's going to go. 220 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:38,800 I To be able to let go of needing to control all of the 221 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,900 outcomes. And to trust that I will find a 222 00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:49,000 way that will work and that we will be better off as a result 223 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,000 of me. Moving forward. 224 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,900 So now I want to share two stories to illustrate how all of 225 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:06,099 this can work in your actual life. 226 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:10,599 And the first story is from my personal life and it's about how 227 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:16,300 I am learning a new language. I set a goal for myself, of 228 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:21,300 learning a new language and I've been using an app and I use it a 229 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:24,500 little bit every day and I'm starting to learn some things. 230 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,300 And I'll, I saw That there were in addition to the app. 231 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,600 There were events hosted by different people in the 232 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:39,400 community and you could join. It was free, it was on zoom and 233 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,500 they were these conversation groups. 234 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:46,800 And I thought, oh well, that will really help me to improve 235 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:52,100 my skill with this language. If I join one of these online 236 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,500 meetups. So I signed up for it, I had it 237 00:17:54,500 --> 00:18:00,600 in my calendar and I noticed that as the time of the event, 238 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,500 got closer. I started to feel anxious. 239 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:10,100 I thought, oh, what if, what if everyone is better than me, what 240 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,000 if I am the worst speaker in the group? 241 00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:18,500 What if people are mean, what if I don't, what if everything is 242 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:23,200 over my head and I can't keep up and I started to get a little 243 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,200 anxious and I thought maybe this isn't the best time maybe Should 244 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,300 work on something else. Maybe, you know, I'll do one 245 00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:33,600 like later. You know, I really do have a lot 246 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,200 happening today, like I maybe I don't need to do this, so that 247 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,300 was me. Being both in avoidance, and 248 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:44,600 then starting to find that rationalization, right? 249 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,800 And as a result, I started to feel very anxious. 250 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:55,600 So in my body, my heart started pounding, I started to feel a 251 00:18:55,608 --> 00:18:58,600 little tightness. In my throat, all of the 252 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,600 physiological signs of Stress and Anxiety. 253 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:08,600 Those were happening for sure, in my physical self and I was 254 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,300 really on the brink of canceling when I thought to myself. 255 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,700 You know what? Kim, just get over yourself. 256 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,900 What if it's fine? What if it's great like, give 257 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:24,800 this a go just show up. And so I went ahead, I joined 258 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,700 the event. It turns out people were really 259 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:33,300 nice, the instructor was great. A lot of people didn't know more 260 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:37,800 than me, we're much more fluent, but that was okay. 261 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,500 Because what I wanted to do is I wanted to learn to speak more 262 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:45,400 and I actually started to do that. 263 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:50,700 It's one thing to learn in the quiet privacy and control of the 264 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:54,400 app on your phone. It's Another thing entirely to 265 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,000 get into a virtual conversation with people to get onto a zoom 266 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,300 call and to actually be in dialogue and trying to find the 267 00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:08,400 words and find the vocabulary in the moment that I needed it. 268 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:15,900 So small example, but very real and believe me in the moment. 269 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,200 It felt very, very true and very, very serious. 270 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,100 Now I have one more story for you. 271 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,600 This actually really is more about the workplace and it is 272 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,900 from several years ago. I was managing a team of 18 273 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:39,200 people, and there was a lot of unrest morale was not very good. 274 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:45,600 People were feeling concerned about the company and there were 275 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,900 some rumors about potential layoffs, coming up, and also 276 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:55,100 about some potential reorg. That might change how the 277 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:58,300 organization was structured. So there was a lot of unrest and 278 00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:03,000 a lot of uncertainty about that. People would ask me what I knew 279 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:10,100 and I was not allowed to say. And so I as their manager was in 280 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:14,400 this interesting position of feeling like I have to avoid 281 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,600 this topic because I'm not allowed to talk about what. 282 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:23,900 I know it will be communicated in the time and in the way that 283 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:30,200 the leadership team had decided But I was also in the place of 284 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,300 avoiding what people were going through and all of the 285 00:21:34,308 --> 00:21:39,600 discomfort and the unrest and my rationalization was so it's not 286 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,800 my place to talk about this. You know, my rationalization was 287 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,700 well, you know, I can't give them an answer so I just won't 288 00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:52,100 say anything at all. The result of that was that 289 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:57,500 resentment continued to grow this low-level grumbling and it 290 00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,700 wasn't even necessarily resentment directed towards me 291 00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:04,400 personally, but it was towards leadership and management and 292 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,800 feeling not appreciated and there was a lot of distraction. 293 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,600 There are lots of rumors. There was a lot of you know just 294 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,200 the energy of things are not happening. 295 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,900 Smoothly here, people were not in a in a good space. 296 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:26,800 And what I ended up choosing what I saw as my alternative was 297 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,300 I thought, well, you know what I can't do is I can't give them 298 00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:35,200 the answer. I can't give them confidential 299 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,000 information. I still have a duty to keep that 300 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,800 information confidential. But what I can do to move 301 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,300 forward is I can acknowledge how difficult things are. 302 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:56,100 I can acknowledge that people are frustrated and validate that 303 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,400 even just acknowledging that people were frustrated that 304 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:09,000 things were difficult that they were being asked to do a lot, 305 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:15,300 even when circumstances were uncertain and people were really 306 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:22,600 uncomfortable and I think that we sometimes Overlook how 307 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,700 valuable that is, not just at work, but really like in all of 308 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:32,200 our relationships when we want trust, part of what kind of 309 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,500 like, part of what creates trust is feeling like we are 310 00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:41,700 understood that our discomfort that our frustration is 311 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:53,000 understood. so, In that situation, with me with my team 312 00:23:53,600 --> 00:24:00,000 that starting place of moving forward of stopping the 313 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,800 avoidance. Of seeing through the 314 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:10,900 rationalization of finding a way to move forward, that helped to 315 00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:13,800 let my team feel seen and appreciated. 316 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:20,700 That helped me to also step into like the role of manager that 317 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,300 was going to be able to be a greater service to them. 318 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:27,400 That's also how this process worked. 319 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,500 So my hope for you is that as you finish this Into this 320 00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:36,900 episode, take some time for yourself and think through what 321 00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:40,600 am I avoiding. What is my rationalization? 322 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:43,100 And I'm sure you'll have very good reasons. 323 00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:46,900 What is the result of all of that? 324 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,300 And then, what alternatives do you have? 325 00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,700 And finally, what do you need to move forward? 326 00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:00,200 And sometimes the answer is as simple as I need to trust 327 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,800 myself. I need to trust this person. 328 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,300 I need to trust my team, I need some patience. 329 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,400 I need some compassion. I need a little bit of Grace for 330 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,700 all of us because you know, working with humans. 331 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,500 It's not always easy. So thank you so much for 332 00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:21,600 listening. I hope your Year is off to a 333 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,500 wonderful start and I will see you in our next episode. 334 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:32,800 Bye. Do you want personal 335 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,600 confidential help with your situation at work? 336 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,900 I offer one-on-one coaching and can help you overcome challenges 337 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,400 reach your goals and become a more effective leader to 338 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,800 schedule a consult. Go to my website, Kim nickel.com 339 00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:53,400 coaching and we'll schedule time to talk about what's going on 340 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,400 with you and how I can help talk to you soon.