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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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If you are new to this podcast, 
my name is Kim nickel. 

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I'm a coach, and I know that 
I've had a lot of new people 

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listening in, because I can see 
that the numbers of downloads on

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my podcast have been growing and
I can also see that you are 

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listening in from around the 
world. 

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Old, you might not know this but
I am in San Francisco, but you 

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might be in all kinds of places.
I know I have a lot of listeners

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across the us but also Canada. 
So hello to you. 

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Also in the United Kingdom. 
So I'm waving to you all. 

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I've got a lot of listeners 
calling in and listening from 

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Australia, which I love and also
the Philippines which is a very 

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special to me in my heart. 
Because my mom is from the 

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Philippines. 
I have a lot of relatives and 

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just a lot of history there. 
So I really just want to start 

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today's episode by giving a bit 
of a, shout out to you to my 

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community of listeners from 
wherever you are listening from.

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And this is an interesting thing
to just to offer as a 

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reflection, which is no matter 
where in the world you are no 

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matter what kind of organization
you work for whether it's in 

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health, Care or in technology or
in a law firm or in philanthropy

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or for the government but I have
clients that work in all these 

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different Industries. 
But so interesting is that many 

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of the challenges that come up 
in the course of managing humans

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and working with humans at work,
they will show up in every part 

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of the world in every industry 
because you know where humans 

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are not always. 
He's really good at learning how

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to work with each other. 
So, here we are. 

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Learning some new ways of 
thinking about it and some new 

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approaches to try out yourself 
in your workplace. 

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Ultimately my goal and my desire
is for you to feel more, he's to

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feel less burdened to feel more 
capable and confident in how you

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deal with all of. 
The humans at work and all of 

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the human stuff. 
So that brings us into today's 

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episode. 
Oh, and I also wanted to share a

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celebration that also connects 
into my topic today. 

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One of my clients was we were 
talking about all of the things 

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that she has learned and 
accomplished over the last 

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several months of us working 
together. 

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She said something really 
interesting. 

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She said my boyfriend has 
noticed a change and I asked 

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her, like, what does that mean? 
What I have, what has he said? 

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And she said that her boyfriend 
commented that she doesn't talk 

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about work as much as she used 
to and that she's a happier 

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person and I love that so much 
because I think sometimes we 

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don't even realize how our work 
experience effects all these 

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other areas of our life. 
And so she wanted to work on 

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work-life balance and she wanted
to Learn how to set better 

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boundaries at work and how to 
communicate more directly. 

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And as we were working on that, 
one of the effects is that she 

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has been able to achieve better 
work-life balance and so she's 

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feeling less overwhelmed. 
She has more time for other 

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things and hobbies and things 
that she cares about and she's 

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generally feeling happier in her
life. 

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Which means that when she's 
spending time with her 

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boyfriend, she's like Less 
interested in talking about 

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work. 
I mean partly because she gets 

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to bring that conversation to 
me. 

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Like she has time on her 
calendar, where she knows she's 

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going to talk about work. 
We're going to coach on what 

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she's being challenged with and 
really help her to develop her 

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skill set and her mindset so 
that she can be the kind of 

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leader. 
She wants to be at work and then

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when she's with her boyfriend, 
she just gets to enjoy. 

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Being with him and doing things 
together. 

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So I love that and I wanted to 
share that with you. 

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So today's episode, I wanted to 
speak to you about the emotional

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labor of managing people and 
what that can also bring with? 

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It is a sense of isolation or a 
feeling of loneliness because 

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what happens is and you know, 
initially before we manage 

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people, one of the ways that we 
connect with and bond with our 

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Colleagues is by complaining 
about management and I don't 

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mean this in a in a deeply 
negative way but in the same way

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where we look to connect with 
others through shared experience

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through empathy and talking 
about, oh yeah this is kind of 

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frustrating or yeah. 
I don't really know what 

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management or what leadership is
thinking. 

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I don't know why they're doing 
that. 

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It's often one of the easiest 
things to connect with. 

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Colleagues about is 
commiserating to share in the 

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frustrations that you encounter 
when you're working with people,

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but then what happens when you 
are managing people number one, 

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you start to feel a bit more 
pressure to maintain kind of 

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like a peaceful tone, so you 
certainly would not want to 

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complain to your team about the 
challenges that you're facing 

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with. 
The people that are, you know, 

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in higher up in the 
organization, but you also will 

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probably feel more guarded about
voicing your concerns to your 

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peers and colleagues. 
Because now it starts to seem a 

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little bit less like a little 
bit less okay to do that. 

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And there's more of this sense 
I've noticed with my clients of 

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feeling like that's not how you 
want to. 

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Build relationships at work and 
needing to be a bit more guarded

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with what you talk about and how
you talk about it. 

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You're being a bit more 
strategic a bit, more thoughtful

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and this sense to like it was 
okay to connect with people 

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through that kind of 
commiserating when you were an 

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individual contributor but now 
is a team lead, the message that

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you want to be sending is 
different and the other thing 

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that happens is that the higher 
up you go and the more More 

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responsibilities. 
You get that starts to feel like

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more pressure, right? 
I've talked about that before 

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this feeling that there's more 
pressure. 

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Now, there's more at stake and 
as this is happening very often.

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Your manager is now even busier 
than before. 

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So has less time available, and 
they might simply have less 

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energy to do any emotional labor
for checking in with you. 

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Even if They are really well 
intentioned and they really want

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to support you. 
They are already just busy and 

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overwhelmed and may not be able 
to provide that level or 

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frequency of support so that can
happen. 

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And so what, you know, we tend 
to do when we start to feel more

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pressure and a little bit more 
guarded and a little bit more 

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overwhelmed. 
And if you're facing new kinds 

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of challenges, so when we are 
managing people, there's a lot 

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of emotional labor in the sense 
that you are now not simply 

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managing tasks and work getting 
completed. 

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Now, you are managing different 
personalities, both the people 

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on your team as well as managing
up your also. 

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Now, managing expectations in a 
new way you are managing 

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confidential information. 
You might have information that 

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Will affect your team and it 
might be around layoffs or it 

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might be around planning. 
You might have access to 

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information that you know, will 
affect your team. 

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And yet you are not allowed to 
share that until like you get 

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the go-ahead or there's some 
other event that needs to 

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happen. 
So you will also have access to 

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more behind-the-scenes 
information that now you have to

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hold in confidence and can't 
talk about that with your team 

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and the people that you see most
often. 

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One of the things that, you 
know, when I asked people to 

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tell me what are the signs of a 
great manager, you know how like

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what are the things that a great
manager does. 

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A common thing that comes up is 
people will say oh my manager 

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really Shields me from all this 
other noise or from all these 

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other demands. 
So I can really focus on the 

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work that I need to do. 
Well, That's great. 

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But then, when you're in the 
role of needing to Shield 

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people, that becomes part of the
emotional labor that you're now 

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doing to help your team to focus
and to keep all of the, you 

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know, negotiation or pressure or
concerns that you have 

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perspective on. 
Now, you're now keeping that 

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away from your team. 
So if you find that Becoming a 

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manager and stepping into this 
higher level of leadership 

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leaves. 
You feeling a bit more isolated 

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a bit more lonely because you 
don't feel like you have folks 

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that you can talk with about 
that and also feeling somewhat 

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drained because now there's all 
this other work around the 

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emotional management that you 
didn't you didn't fully realize 

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coming into it. 
What would that entail? 

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All I just want to name this to 
normalize it and I'm so that you

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can see it and start to think 
about it in a new kind of way 

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rather than simply being 
reactive to it or feeling like 

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you have to keep your head above
water. 

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Instead I want you to just 
realize oh it makes perfect 

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sense. 
Of course, there are all of 

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these new things that are being 
asked of me in this job and I 

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didn't fully Realize it. 
And that's why I'm feeling that 

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sense of being drained, right? 
Or that sense of being isolated.

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So there are three maybe four 
things. 

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It was debating on. 
And if this is like three things

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or four things, but I think it's
kind of like four things and the

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framework I'm going to share 
with you is something that I 

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shared very recently with a 
team. 

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I was facilitating a session for
them, they were having a 

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week-long team. 
Off-site and they brought me in 

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on the first day to do two hours
to facilitate some conversations

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that they were wanting to have 
with each other. 

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And here is the framework that I
offer to them. 

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That I want to offer to you 
because it will help you to both

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become aware of all of the 
emotional labor part and also I 

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find it a very helpful framework
that you can keep with you. 

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Like it's very lightweight, it's
not complicated. 

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Added and it can give you that 
moment of perspective. 

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It can help you learn to think 
strategically and give you a 

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little bit more space so that 
you know what to do next. 

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If you've ever felt like what 
like what do I do next? 

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This might really help you with 
that. 

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So the first thing is to Simply 
pause and this is what keeps you

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from being Active taking a 
moment to pause, gives you a 

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little bit of time to gather 
your thoughts and get a fresh 

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perspective. 
And in the session that I 

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facilitated last week, one of 
the people on the team, had such

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a great contribution in the 
conversation and she said, oh 

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oh, oh this is what this is what
I needed. 

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You know, earlier in the month, 
she said that she had been 

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responding to emails, very Very 
quickly and she thought about 

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it. 
Now she thought, if I had just 

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paused then I would have reduced
the confusion because she was 

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responding very quickly to her 
emails, but she wasn't giving 

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herself time to pause and 
reflect gather, all the 

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information, and the perspective
she needed. 

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And so she was acting quickly, 
but it was increasing the amount

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of confusion, which Increase the
amount of work and increased. 

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The amount of emails that were 
moving between like everybody on

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the team. 
And so the pause is really 

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important because that is what 
will save you time and it will 

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save you energy and by 
extension, it will save time of 

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everyone else and it will help 
use everyone else's energy 

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better as well. 
So, taking a moment to pause. 

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Pause and then three things to 
follow and this is a framework. 

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I want you to think about how 
you can use this in your own 

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work, Day celebration 
observation, and iteration 

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celebration is when you pause 
and you ask yourself what's 

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working? 
What are we doing? 

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Well, what is going 
surprisingly? 

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Well, what did we not expect to 
go this? 

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Well you want to celebrate it 
for a couple of reasons. 

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One is there's a lot you can 
learn from the things that are 

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working and we very often can 
skip that because we think 

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everything's working there. 
Great, let's move on. 

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But you actually want to pause 
and get more Curious to 

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understand what's working. 
And why is there anything we can

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learn? 
From the celebration that will 

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help us with this new challenge.
Also celebration feels good. 

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People want to feel acknowledged
I want to feel recognized and 

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appreciated and celebrations, do
that, even if it's something 

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small, we don't want to wait for
the big stuff to celebrate, we 

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want to celebrate each little 
step along the way because that 

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is what helps us continue to 
keep going, especially if we're 

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facing other kinds of 
challenges. 

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The second piece is observation.
This is where mindfulness 

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becomes really helpful because 
mindfulness is the Of being 

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observant without judgment or 
story with observation. 

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You want to pause and ask 
yourself. 

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What am I noticing right now? 
You want to look for behaviors 

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rather than judgments or 
stories? 

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This is what will help you to 
also uncover any assumptions 

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that might not be serving you. 
That might be getting in the 

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way, so that pause and be 
observant. 

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Just notice, what am I noticing 
In This Moment? 

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It'll also help to bring you. 
You kind of out of the chaos of 

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overwhelm and ride into the 
present, which gives us a little

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more space, a little more calm. 
So you can be more resourceful 

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and bring more of your own 
insight and perspective into the

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moment. 
This also reminds me of the 

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story. 
I shared a few episodes ago 

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where one of my clients had this
realization where you know what 

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got her out of imposter syndrome
was when she stopped asking, am 

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I? 
Enough is my background good 

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enough compared to all these 
people. 

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And instead she started to ask, 
what can I contribute to help 

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this team be successful and by 
changing that perspective by 

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taking a moment to notice to 
notice and be observant and ask,

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what can I contribute that will 
help make this team be 

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successful? 
Completely changed her approach.

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Got her out of the Imposter 
syndrome and actually got her 

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too. 
A place of feeling confident and

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what she had to offer and to 
engage with her team in a 

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completely different way. 
And then, the last one is 

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iteration and that simply 
acknowledges that you are in a 

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dynamic relationship with your 
work. 

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And with all of the people that 
you work with, it is not static.

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That means the goal is not to 
perfectly plan, how things will 

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go. 
The goal is to recognize, this 

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is a dynamic situation, things 
are changing. 

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Sure, we can make a plan but the
purpose of the plan is to help 

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me. 
Think through all of these 

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things, it is not to cling to 
the plan. 

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It is not to wait until I have a
perfect plan. 

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Iteration acknowledges. 
We learn by doing and iteration 

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leaves room for Change and room 
to experiment. 

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It leaves room to try different 
things and this is so helpful. 

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If you are a perfectionist If 
you are a really hard on 

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yourself, when things don't go 
to plan, or if you are really 

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hard on yourself because you 
feel like you don't quite meet 

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the level of perfection that you
hold for yourself. 

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Then remember, you know, 
Perfection is not the point 

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iteration being actively present
and engaged and dynamic and 

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learning like Fast learning is 
so valuable. 

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So these four elements first, we
And then we can bring that pause

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into. 
How are you celebrating? 

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What are you observing and 
thinking iteratively it when we 

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think to also about these 
different elements I find it 

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helps us stay connected to 
compassion and to Grace and you 

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need both. 
I mean as a human generally you 

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absolutely need some 
self-compassion and some Grace 

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but especially Really, when you 
are in a position of leadership,

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when people are looking to you, 
with questions, when people are 

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looking to you for guidance, and
people are looking to you to set

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the tone that self-compassion 
and that sense of Grace will 

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help you be better because it 
will help to unhook and 

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eliminate you from all of the 
pressure and the overwhelm and 

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it will get you out of that 
isolation and that kind of 

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lonely feeling. 
So that is what I wanted to 

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share with you today and please 
do take this implement this. 

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Try this out for yourself. 
If you wish to work with me, 

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one-on-one, I am taking new 
clients. 

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I'll put a link in the show 
notes so you can sign up for a 

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consult. 
And we can make a road map for 

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what will work on and how its 
part of the work that I love the

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most is being able to support 
you one-on-one through the 

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challenges that you face and 
then being able to celebrate 

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with you as you start to grow 
and really like just experienced

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a better work and life 
experience. 

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So that's what I have for you 
today. 

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Thank you so much for listening 
for wherever you are in the 

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world and I will talk to you 
next time. 

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Hey, before you go, if you like 
this podcast, please leave a 

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00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:42,300
review. 
Tell me why you Ian and what has

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helped you. 
Thanks so much. 

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I'll see you next time.