1
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,600
Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

2
00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:17,200
I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

3
00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:21,400
I'm glad that you're here and I 
hope you had a good day at work.

4
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,700
Today, we're talking about 
knowing when to leave. 

5
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,400
This is such a big topic and 
it's been coming up for me a 

6
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:37,200
lot, actually, because I have 
recently chosen to step away 

7
00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:42,100
from my classes at general 
assembly for the first time in 

8
00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:48,800
three years, I am Putting a 
pause on my crash course for new

9
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,700
managers and my Essential skills
workshop for new managers three 

10
00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:55,400
years. 
I've been teaching that class 

11
00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,900
every month and I will be honest
with you it's kind of hard 

12
00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:07,900
still, I really loved teaching 
that because it brought me. 

13
00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:12,400
Especially once we moved online,
especially when we moved online,

14
00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:17,500
As a little bit of backstory, I 
live in San Francisco. 

15
00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:21,200
And for the first couple of 
years that I was teaching my 

16
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,300
classes with General Assembly, I
was teaching in the San 

17
00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:30,000
Francisco campus and so everyone
who attended was physically in 

18
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,300
the same room and we had 
whiteboards and markers and it 

19
00:01:33,300 --> 00:01:37,000
was so much fun and I could 
travel to some of the other 

20
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,300
campuses and reach the students 
in New York or in Seattle or in 

21
00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:47,000
LA or wherever I was able. 
Well, to go and then over the 

22
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,200
last year because of the 
pandemic, everything 

23
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,700
transitioned to being online and
so I'm still in San Francisco 

24
00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:57,400
but was what happened? 
Was my classes. 

25
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,900
Now were available to students 
across the country and also 

26
00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:11,200
around the world and it was so 
cool to have students meeting in

27
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:17,100
this online class. 
How to learn and share about 

28
00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:21,800
their experiences, as a new 
manager, or as an aspiring 

29
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,400
manager, or as a product 
manager, or an office manager, 

30
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,300
or as someone who had been 
managing people for years, but 

31
00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:35,900
had never taken a class in it 
before and the richness of those

32
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:39,000
conversations with people from 
different Industries and 

33
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,900
different parts of the world and
different backgrounds. 

34
00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:47,100
It's the kind of Conversation. 
That doesn't really happen 

35
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,300
elsewhere. 
Not that I've found, you know, 

36
00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:55,700
there's something that is so 
valuable about having a space to

37
00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,800
talk about what you're 
struggling with that work, where

38
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,800
you're not with people who know 
you and you're not with people 

39
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,900
that are in your same industry, 
it just broadens your 

40
00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:10,000
perspective and it kind of opens
up your sense of what's possible

41
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,300
and and what other people do and
other Industries and other. 

42
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,900
Organizations. 
And within that environment, 

43
00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:21,100
what I also saw a lot of was my 
students would realize. 

44
00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:25,400
Wow, I actually know a lot more 
than I give myself credit for 

45
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,100
because as I'm sharing my 
knowledge, right? 

46
00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:32,200
Like my students would realize 
that they really had some very 

47
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,600
valuable perspectives and 
experiences that they hadn't 

48
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,100
really held as valuable in the 
same way. 

49
00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,300
So you might be wondering Ring. 
Okay, Kim. 

50
00:03:44,300 --> 00:03:47,200
So, if everything was so 
amazing, why are you not? 

51
00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:52,200
Why are you not teaching it now?
And I will tell you it's because

52
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,400
a few months ago I started this 
new work project. 

53
00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,200
I'm working in-house at this 
other company focusing 

54
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,400
specifically on manager 
development. 

55
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,400
It's really, really cool. 
It's a whole new experience for 

56
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:13,600
me and I wanted to focus my 
attention both on the this 

57
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,500
podcast, I wanted to create more
content for you and I wanted to 

58
00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:23,700
focus more of my attention on 
this new opportunity that I was 

59
00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:29,100
getting up to speed on and I 
realized, oh my gosh, it's time 

60
00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:34,600
to let something go because I 
was starting to feel spread too 

61
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:41,000
thin and I'm the kind of person 
who can get really a little 

62
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:46,100
obsessively focused on Thing and
want to do it over and over and 

63
00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:48,300
over again until it's just, 
right? 

64
00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:51,900
Until it's just perfect. 
And of course, perfect doesn't 

65
00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:54,000
exist. 
It's not a real thing. 

66
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,700
So there are always new ideas 
and ways to improve or adjust or

67
00:04:59,707 --> 00:05:05,000
adapt and as a side note, as it 
sort of additional context, when

68
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:11,000
I was in college, I was a rower.
I was one of those people in a 

69
00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:16,400
very narrow little boat. 
And I had an oar and it was one 

70
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,100
motion repeatedly over and over 
again and the focus of 

71
00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:25,300
attempting to get this perfect 
precision, and making these 

72
00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:28,200
micro adjustments. 
The repetitiveness of it was 

73
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:34,200
both extremely meditative and it
was so compelling because your 

74
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,500
focus gets so directed in this 
one specific Direction. 

75
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,900
So, you know, because I was a 
great Roar, it's no Is that when

76
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:47,400
I'm teaching a class, I want to 
teach it again and make an 

77
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,700
improvement and then teach it 
again and make another 

78
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:53,300
Improvement. 
And I realized at some point, 

79
00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:58,900
you have to look up to the 
Horizon and ask. 

80
00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:06,500
What is it that I want now in my
journey and does it continue to 

81
00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:10,800
serve me to obsess on this 
level? 

82
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:18,900
At this scope in, in this place.
And so I came to the decision 

83
00:06:18,900 --> 00:06:24,900
that it was time to pause my 
classes there and to release 

84
00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:28,100
them even though they were 
great. 

85
00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:30,500
Right. 
Nothing was wrong. 

86
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,100
It wasn't like I was leaving a 
bad situation. 

87
00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:39,400
It was simply this realization 
of I'm reassessing re-evaluating

88
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,100
my current commitment. 
Interests and what I'm feeling 

89
00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:48,800
called towards in this next 
chapter of my career and of my 

90
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,300
life and this moment of 
realizing, oh my gosh, I think 

91
00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:57,700
it's time to let this go to let 
go of this good thing and I 

92
00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:03,000
wanted to open this conversation
of when to let go with this 

93
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,400
story, because sometimes letting
go is letting go of a good 

94
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,300
thing. 
And that can sometimes be the 

95
00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:14,300
hardest because we tend to want 
to cling and keep with us, the 

96
00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:18,500
things that have been very 
enjoyable and the things that we

97
00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:22,900
feel good at, you know, when you
do something within one 

98
00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:26,100
organization or within one 
industry for a long time, 

99
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,500
there's something that feels 
very reassuring and even 

100
00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:34,700
comforting because you have a 
sense of competence. 

101
00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,100
You have a sense of I know how 
to do this. 

102
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:45,600
And letting go of that, can be 
very challenging can be very 

103
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,300
hard. 
So here's what helps. 

104
00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:55,300
If you find yourself facing this
question of do, I let go of this

105
00:07:55,300 --> 00:08:02,900
thing even though it's good. 
One think about what if letting 

106
00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:09,300
go of, this makes room for 
someone else, to step up and 

107
00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:14,000
into this opportunity, that's 
one that helps me a lot because 

108
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,500
one of my fears, the little the 
little fear voice in the back of

109
00:08:17,508 --> 00:08:22,600
my mind says well Kim. 
If you stop teaching, then what 

110
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,000
if they don't have anyone to 
teach this and then your 

111
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,800
students will be Head and the 
company will be disappointed and

112
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,299
it will create a great 
inconvenience for everybody. 

113
00:08:35,900 --> 00:08:39,000
And what if you're going to let 
these people down, you know, 

114
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,500
that have been depending on you 
to do this. 

115
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,100
And that's heavy for me because 
it is Meaningful. 

116
00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:51,400
I am so interested in being of 
service and in being helpful and

117
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,800
the thought of, oh my gosh, will
I let other people down? 

118
00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:59,400
If I choose to release this? 
This and let it go. 

119
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,800
And what really helps is when I 
think well, what if me letting 

120
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:09,500
this go actually turns out to be
better for them. 

121
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,100
Maybe it'll be better for 
General Assembly. 

122
00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:18,900
Maybe it'll allow them to 
introduce a new teacher, a 

123
00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:22,100
different teacher, a teacher 
with a different perspective or 

124
00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:24,700
a way of teaching. 
That is really needed. 

125
00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:28,000
Maybe they can use that time on 
the schedule for something. 

126
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,400
That the students really need. 
Now, maybe me leaving will free 

127
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,700
up space in a way that is really
a great contribution to the 

128
00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:45,400
organization but also to my 
students and also to the other 

129
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,000
teachers the other instructors 
and coaches and facilitators, 

130
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,400
who also have a really great 
message and really great 

131
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,800
knowledge to share. 
What if it's just time for me to

132
00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:01,500
vacate this The seat so that 
someone else can come in. 

133
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,200
That is something that makes it 
feel a lot easier for me, than, 

134
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,600
to send the email saying, I will
be unavailable for the next 

135
00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,200
period of time. 
I'm not going to renew my 

136
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,800
classes right now. 
Is a thought that helps to 

137
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:24,600
lighten my heart and make me 
feel joyful rather than feeling 

138
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,700
guilty or like I'm letting 
people down. 

139
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,700
So that's my first thought if 
you are needing to let go of 

140
00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:36,500
something that is good. 
And you're worried about letting

141
00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:40,100
people down, remember that maybe
this will actually be better for

142
00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:43,100
everybody in a way that you 
don't even foresee. 

143
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:46,100
You're just creating more space.
So that's one. 

144
00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:51,600
Thought, the other thing is, 
anytime you choose to leave, 

145
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,500
there are going to be lots of 
different emotions. 

146
00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:59,300
There might be disappointment. 
There might be enthusiasm and 

147
00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,100
joy. 
You might be leaving because 

148
00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:02,700
something really great is 
happening. 

149
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:07,400
Or you might be leaving because 
It's been an awful situation or 

150
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,200
things have changed in a way 
that you're not in agreement 

151
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:15,700
with anymore. 
So, just be aware that there 

152
00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:21,000
will be lots of emotions. 
And I want to suggest that as a 

153
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,700
practice, give yourself room to 
welcome and acknowledge and 

154
00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:29,400
name. 
What are all those emotions? 

155
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,900
Don't try to talk yourself out 
of them or tell you how you 

156
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:36,800
should feel or tell you. 
You know, the voice in your head

157
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,500
that says, oh, you know, I don't
know why you're making a big 

158
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,200
fuss about this or or feeling 
this way. 

159
00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:48,600
Just give yourself the grace to 
invite all of the different 

160
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,100
emotions. 
You could even write them down 

161
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,800
and say, I'm feeling angry. 
I don't really know why. 

162
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,900
I'm also feeling frustrated. 
I'm also feeling disappointed. 

163
00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:03,300
I'm also feeling optimistic. 
I'm also feeling grateful. 

164
00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:07,800
I'm also feeling some Reef for 
the relationships and the 

165
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,100
colleagues. 
And the wonderful friends that I

166
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,000
met. 
I'm feeling sad about the end of

167
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,400
this chapter, give yourself the 
grace and the room to Simply 

168
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,600
acknowledge and to write down 
all of those emotions. 

169
00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:26,500
It's a lot easier to address 
them when you're in a period of 

170
00:12:26,500 --> 00:12:31,400
transition or approaching a 
transition, then ignoring them 

171
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,500
skimming past them, or trying 
to. 

172
00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:38,600
You know, put them into a box 
and tuck them away into the 

173
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,100
archives of your life. 
Let yourself acknowledge those 

174
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:47,400
emotions. 
So another reason you might 

175
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,700
choose to leave is because you 
get this very clear sense. 

176
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:59,100
It's over, it's time to go and I
know for a lot of folks that 

177
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,600
came up over the last year 
because the pandemic had such a 

178
00:13:02,608 --> 00:13:08,800
big effect on so many Industries
and on so many professions and 

179
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:14,300
for me as well, the beginning of
2020, I was a coach work. 

180
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,400
For a company that would send me
to all these different 

181
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,000
organizations. 
And I would lead these full day 

182
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,800
trainings on communication and 
public speaking skills. 

183
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,200
It was a lot of fun. 
I loved it. 

184
00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:33,600
I was booked out and I was 
traveling and it was, it was 

185
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,400
work that I really loved and 
enjoyed And when the pandemic 

186
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,200
settled in and first, it was 
work from our first. 

187
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,200
It was, you know, two weeks, 
maybe three weeks of being at 

188
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,000
home. 
You know, all of these events 

189
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,200
got rescheduled and then as the 
week's turned into months and 

190
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:58,200
the months continue to expand, I
had this realization of this is 

191
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:04,200
not going to come back that era 
of the work I was doing. 

192
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,200
If it recovers, it's going to A 
while, it's not going to come 

193
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,300
back in two months, maybe not 
even in a year or two, it'll be 

194
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:18,100
different somehow. 
So this moment of realizing the 

195
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:24,100
work that I loved that I was 
planning to do is suddenly gone 

196
00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:31,400
this feeling of, oh, it's over, 
I didn't choose for things to 

197
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,100
change. 
So abruptly but they have. 

198
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,600
And so But I get to decide is 
what do I want to do with it? 

199
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:46,900
And for me, I had this moment of
just realizing in my bones, it's

200
00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:50,500
over. 
It's time to let this go, even 

201
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:52,900
though you might be a little 
uncertain about what's going to 

202
00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:56,900
happen. 
Next holding on to, this work 

203
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:01,100
relationship with this company. 
When, you know, that you are not

204
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:06,000
interested in continuing, that's
not going to work for you. 

205
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,200
You have to let it go. 
It's time. 

206
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,400
So notice in your life when you 
have those kinds of moments as 

207
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,400
well. 
And the thing that will serve 

208
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:22,500
you most in that kind of 
situation is number one, be 

209
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:27,100
willing to see. 
Clearly don't try to talk 

210
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,700
yourself out of it. 
When you have that moment of 

211
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:35,300
Simply a seeing from this very 
neutral place, this is the 

212
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:40,300
situation we're facing now. 
The industry has changed or the 

213
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,300
situation has changed something 
is different. 

214
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:49,900
Is this what I want? 
And listen for the answer and 

215
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:59,100
decide yes or no and honor that 
when you see clearly it becomes 

216
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:05,600
much easier to make decisions 
from a calm and grounded Place 

217
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,600
rather than from a place of 
Action or from a place of 

218
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:17,900
anxiety and finally, the last 
story of when to leave is when 

219
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,700
it's time and this is a little 
bit different. 

220
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,300
From the sense of gosh, things 
are simply over. 

221
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:33,100
I believe that everyone has an 
internal sense of migration. 

222
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,500
The sense of when it's time to 
leave. 

223
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,900
Just like the birds and the 
butterflies and so many animals 

224
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:46,000
have this internal sense of when
it's time to move. 

225
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,300
I believe that we have this to 
as humans and within our own 

226
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,700
career Journeys. 
Within our own life, the sense 

227
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:58,400
of it's time to leave. 
And for me, the biggest 

228
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:04,000
experience I had with that was 
back in 2012. 

229
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,700
When I decided to leave a 
company that I had been at 

230
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:12,200
first, To have. 
Here's, it's where I first 

231
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:20,099
became a people manager. 
I learned so much and there was 

232
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:28,200
this one Moment when I realized 
that I was going through the 

233
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:34,700
motions of my life when I was 
kind of coasting and that sort 

234
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:41,500
of plateaued at what I was doing
in that company and it wasn't 

235
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:44,800
okay with me that I was living 
that way. 

236
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,600
And that I was doing my career 
in that way and it was a very 

237
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,000
scary thought. 
This thought of maybe it's time 

238
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,100
to go because once I had that 
thought I couldn't unsee it, I 

239
00:17:59,108 --> 00:18:03,000
couldn't unthink it and it was 
very frightening because I 

240
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,800
didn't know what it meant. 
I didn't really know what I was 

241
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,600
moving towards. 
And so I sat with this question,

242
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,300
you know, what would it look 
like for me to leave? 

243
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:18,200
What would I be leaving for? 
What would I be moving towards? 

244
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,000
And it was six months or so. 
That I really wrestled with this

245
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,000
and initially. 
I thought, you know, maybe I 

246
00:18:27,008 --> 00:18:29,800
just need a new job at a 
different company. 

247
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,400
Something kind of related to 
what I was doing and I started 

248
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,600
interviewing and I went through 
this one interview process with 

249
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,300
another organization. 
It must have been two months, it

250
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,300
was so many meetings, so many 
interviews. 

251
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,400
A friend of mine worked in that 
company. 

252
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,400
She was the one who had told me 
about the position, so I All, I 

253
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,800
also felt like, oh great, I 
haven't an internal Advocate. 

254
00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,500
There's somebody in the company 
that is pulling for me, and at 

255
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:03,900
the end of all of these 
interview Cycles, they didn't 

256
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,300
make me an offer. 
They went with another 

257
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:09,800
candidate. 
And I was so disappointed 

258
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,800
because I thought, no, I'm 
supposed to leave my internal 

259
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,600
migration, you know, voice was 
telling me it's time to go. 

260
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:25,200
And I thought I'm supposed to 
leave this company. 

261
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,700
I was going to go over there and
now that's not available to me. 

262
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,100
What do I do? 
And as I thought about this, I 

263
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:39,700
thought well I can stay here and
continue to interview or try to 

264
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:44,600
find something else or I can 
walk away. 

265
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:56,000
And that was so scary for me 
because I didn't know what was 

266
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,900
on the other side of this and 
the thought that came into my 

267
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:05,100
mind. 
Right at this time was you know 

268
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:10,500
Kim how important is it for you 
to leave here? 

269
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,200
Do you need to have everything 
buttoned up? 

270
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,600
Do you need to have a nice 
perfect plan with clear steps 

271
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:24,000
that you're moving towards or 
does this matter? 

272
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,000
So much that you're willing to 
leave and move into the unknown 

273
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:35,700
and trust yourself and Trust the
world Beyond Your Horizon that 

274
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:40,500
which you cannot yet. 
See, And when I thought about 

275
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:46,200
it, the answer was so clear. 
It was this thought of this 

276
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,900
matters so much. 
It's time for me to go and this 

277
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,100
idea too of being very clear 
cited. 

278
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,600
I thought gosh, like this is 
risky. 

279
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,500
I mean I have some money saved 
but I don't have a lot and I 

280
00:21:00,508 --> 00:21:02,900
don't know exactly what will 
happen. 

281
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:08,700
So there is a real risk here. 
And it was a few more months of 

282
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:13,200
really weighing that and feeling
through and going through the 

283
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,700
numbers and thinking through 
like how could I make this work?

284
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,400
What would that look like? 
Can I consider all of the 

285
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,100
possibilities? 
I didn't want to make the 

286
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:28,200
decision from a place that was 
urgent or desperate or reactive.

287
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,500
I wanted to make that choice 
from a place that felt grounded.

288
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,700
And I wanted to leave with 
gratitude not with resentment or

289
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:43,600
frustration and where I landed 
was this realization of yeah. 

290
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,700
This is a risk. 
But you know what, it's a risk 

291
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:52,900
worth taking. 
And even more than that, I 

292
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:58,100
realized I am a risk worth 
taking. 

293
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:05,100
If I get to live to be an old 
woman, which is no guarantee 

294
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,500
not, for any of us. 
If I get to live to be an old 

295
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:13,000
woman, she deserves to know what
would have been possible for her

296
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,300
in her life and the only one 
that can give that to her? 

297
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:24,900
Is me in that moment making a 
choice about how I wanted to 

298
00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:29,100
live and how I wanted to do my 
career. 

299
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:35,500
And my professional life even if
I didn't know exactly exactly 

300
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:40,600
what that meant or what that was
going to look like. but once I 

301
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,900
found that bigger perspective, 
that clarity about what really 

302
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:49,700
matters to me in this moment 
that maybe I hadn't seen before,

303
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:57,100
but once I saw it clearly, I 
knew what I wanted to do from 

304
00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:05,800
that place, I relaxed, I still 
felt some anxiousness, but in my

305
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,400
bones, in my body, I felt so 
much Each alignment and I felt 

306
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:16,800
so much trust and so that is how
I made the decision. 

307
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:22,900
To leave that career, to leave 
that organization. 

308
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,200
I had been there for six and a 
half years. 

309
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,700
It was the longest relationship 
I've ever been in longer than 

310
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:33,400
any, any, any person in this 
relationship with this 

311
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,400
organization and with this 
career? 

312
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,900
And if that's something that is 
coming up for you, too, and it 

313
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,200
may at some point in the course 
of your life. 

314
00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:51,200
What I'd like to offer you is to
Of yourself, time to feel and to

315
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:58,800
think and to get that Clarity to
listen to and trust that voice 

316
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,500
on the inside. 
For me, it's a voice that is so 

317
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:08,300
calm even when it asked a 
question that made me feel 

318
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:13,200
scared, I knew that it was 
coming from this very grounded 

319
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,100
place from this place that I 
really needed to listen to and 

320
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:21,400
Trust. 
And from there, I could make a 

321
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:27,100
decision about leaving and I'll 
tell you to when I decided to 

322
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:31,700
give notice and leave that job. 
I got a lot of strange responses

323
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,400
from people. 
You know, one person said, gosh,

324
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,500
you know, must be nice if I 
didn't have my husband and my 

325
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,000
kids, I would do something like 
that, that too. 

326
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:49,500
I had a few people make kind of 
jokes about Midlife crisis, 

327
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,600
which was kind of weird, but I 
thought whatever that's fine. 

328
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:57,500
They're allowed to think, 
whatever they like, because I 

329
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:02,100
know why this matters to me. 
I know why I'm making this 

330
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:07,100
choice and I'll tell you. 
Also, I had one person come to 

331
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:11,200
me and he said, you know, Kim it
really means something. 

332
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:15,700
When a company like ours can't 
keep someone like you. 

333
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:20,000
You're so good here. here, 
you're so good at what you do 

334
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,100
and that was so meaningful to 
me, it felt great, to just feel 

335
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:31,700
that appreciation from a 
colleague, the choices that you 

336
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:38,500
make about, who you are in the 
world and how you live the truth

337
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:45,700
of that, through your career 
Journey, Are some of the richest

338
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:51,300
and most beautiful questions 
that you will face in the course

339
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:55,700
of your journey. 
And I believe that if you listen

340
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:04,700
to your inner voice to yourself,
You will know when it's time to 

341
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:11,400
leave whether it's that internal
migration awareness. 

342
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:14,800
It's time. 
It just is absolutely time. 

343
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,900
This is not where you need to be
right now. 

344
00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:22,500
It's time to go or whether it's 
a moment of realizing how it's 

345
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,800
over. 
This company has changed or the 

346
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,600
industry has changed something 
in my life has changed. 

347
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,600
This current situation, it's 
just over or Whether you're 

348
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,500
choosing to leave something, 
that's really good something 

349
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:42,900
that you love because, you know,
that it's time to release it, to

350
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:46,300
allow something new to come in, 
not just for you. 

351
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,800
But for your colleagues and your
students, and the organization 

352
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,100
that you're with is, well you're
creating your life with every 

353
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:59,500
choice you make your career is 
such a big part of that. 

354
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,000
So remember that you You have 
courage. 

355
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,200
Remember to be curious, remember
to be gentle. 

356
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,500
Remember to offer yourself 
Grace. 

357
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,100
Remember that? 
Not everyone around, you will 

358
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:15,300
understand it might not make 
sense to them and that's okay. 

359
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,500
That is what I would like to 
leave with you today. 

360
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:26,300
Thank you so much for listening.
I hope you have a wonderful day 

361
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:28,800
at work and I'll see you next 
time. 

362
00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:36,700
Do you want personal 
confidential help with your 

363
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,100
situation at work? 
I offer one-on-one coaching and 

364
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:44,300
can help you overcome challenges
reach your goals and become a 

365
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:48,100
more effective leader to 
schedule a consult. 

366
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:54,400
Go to my website, Kim nickel.com
coaching and we'll schedule time

367
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,200
to talk about what's going on 
with you and how I can help talk

368
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:58,900
to you soon.