Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome.
I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well.
So I don't know about you, but I feel like my level of social
awkwardness and social anxiety has gone up a little bit in the
last three years. And I feel like I'm having to
relearn how to socialize with people again.
Especially people, I don't know, like, at meetups or Networking
events or, you know, these kinds of things.
And so one of the challenges I've set for myself as there are
more of these events starting to happen.
Now where I live is to look for events that I think would be
interesting where I can learn something and also have
conversations with people and I found such an event and it was
amazing. So I wanted to tell you about it
and also to encourage you if you're also feeling the little
Only awkward or a little bit of social anxiety.
That is okay. That is part of the human
experience. And, you know, we can work with
that. It's not a problem, just
something we become aware of and then can make some supportive
decisions around. So the event I attended last
week is was hosted by lesbians who Tech and allies and I share
this because I am not a lesbian, but I am an ally and some of my
clients Sark. We're and some of my clients
have people on their team who are queer.
And so they wanted to attend this event because it was about
work and there were a lot of really fantastic speakers and
there was an in-person event, not what part of the content was
online which is great that part of it was in person.
Oh and the other interesting thing is I don't work in Tech.
I did a little bit I don't now and actually most of my clients
are not in Tech most. The clients are in different
Industries but there were some great talks about things that
just had to do with the workplace that weren't about
tuck at all. So anyway, I attended this event
online and then they had this in person component and I was
feeling a little bit nervous because, you know, again
socializing with people, I don't know, I am a bit of an
introvert. So while I really enjoy my
one-on-one coaching calls As or even the group programs, that I
facilitate being in person amongst strangers is still,
sometimes something I have to practice at.
So, one of my favorite questions I decided in advance.
You know, what do I want to ask people as a way of starting
conversations and connecting with folks because Pro tip, if
you know, you will be in a situation where you will be
socializing with people that you don't really know or that you
No, at all, it helps to come prepared with a question to ask,
especially, if you are an introvert.
If you are asking a question, then the other person will start
by doing most of the talking and you can also think of it as a
service because if they are an introvert and they haven't
prepared, they might also not feel exactly comfortable knowing
how to open a conversation with someone that they have just met.
So the question that I brought to this event that I asked
people about was I said, tell me about the best manager you ever
had. And it was so interesting
because you could see people would light up.
They think about it and say, oh my gosh, I have this one
manager, they were so great and they would share the story of
why they were great. And I started to notice a theme
among all of the different people that I talked with the
thing that people, People mentioned the most was some
version of my manager had my back.
My manager cared about me as a person.
One specific example, they said, you know, the my manager really
protected the team and advocated for us because in the
organization leadership, didn't really understand what we were
doing. They didn't really understand
our work. And so sometimes people would
question the James we made in the way that we did our work and
my manager would always support us would back us up and would
help explain the work. We were doing to the people that
didn't understand it, they would advocate for us, I loved that
another example someone shared was they said that they you know
had started in a certain position in a company pretty
early in their career and as they learned more they realized
I don't really like what I'm doing here.
I'm really interested in That team is doing over there, the
slightly different function and they talk to their manager about
this. And the manager was really
supportive saying, okay, great, let's figure out what can I do
to support you in transitioning to that other team?
What kind of work projects do you want to be working on?
What are the skills you'll need to develop?
How can I support you in getting into the position that you want
to be in? And I think on a higher level,
it is just helpful. When you are a manager to
remember, the goal is not to keep people forever.
That is not what we're trying to do here.
We want to understand, of course, there will come a time
when we no longer work together. Either, this person will go on
to a different company. They might get promoted
internally. They are, you might get promoted
internally or you might go to another company, or they might
move within the organization to a different role.
And so if you have that, Mind and part of this idea is we want
to create a valuable and effective experience while we're
here as long as we're working together let's make it good and
knowing that people will eventually leave how do you want
to do that? How do you want to work with
someone while they're here? I think that's also valuable
because you want to have a sense in your own mind about what your
staffing needs will be so, If you're already in conversation
with the people on your team, about their professional
development about their career goals, then you can also be a
little bit more prepared and a little more proactive around
your thoughts about hiring and thinking about, you know, who,
what have you know, what are the skills or what are the what are
the characteristics, and the experience of who you will want
to hire, when you need to replace this person?
You'll also start thinking in terms of what documentation do
we. Need to be sure that we have if
you are relying on one specific person and you are kind of
banking on them being there and never leaving because they have
so much organizational knowledge, that's a really tough
place for you to be in and for that person to be in.
Instead you want to be thinking of there may come a day when
this person doesn't want to be here anymore.
So how can I be sure that as an organization and as a team we
will be prepared if and when that happens.
Ends. So it will get you to think a
little bit more long-term a little bit strategically and
also make it feel less, you know, scary or unprepared, if
someone suddenly puts in their two weeks notice.
And you're like, wow, I had no idea.
I could be a hard place to be. So all of those thoughts
inspired by this event and I wanted to share it with you.
Also, number one to encourage you to attend events and
conversations that will help you to think differently.
Leanne expansively and creatively about your work and
your career, especially around managing people.
And this question of, I'm so curious to know who was the best
manager you ever had. And what specifically did they
do? That was really great.
Can be such a great question to ask people, whether it's people
you work with whether it's people that you're just meeting,
it can be a really great way to learn and to connect.
I think sometimes what I love most about this work is it's so
human centered, it's so relational centered and I often
find I can learn more faster through a conversation with
someone then from reading a book that kind of summarizes a high
level of, you know, like research insights or something,
it can be more interesting and it can be more Illuminating to
Simply connect with another human and ask them to share
their story and for To to share and think about your story about
the best manager you ever had and what made them great.
So the main topic I wanted to cover today is this topic around
giving effective feedback, giving feedback is something you
100% will have to do in the course of your career, you will
do this informal ways and you will do this in informal ways.
A formal way might be your Aish ins performance review.
Process informally will be around, you know things that
happen in the course of the work day that you need to give people
feedback on. It'll also come up a lot when
your onboarding people because it's important to give them
effective feedback as they're getting acclimated because not
only does it build trust, but it sets them up for Success.
It establishes, expectations, expectations, and kind of the
standard of Occasional round how feedback works and it's just
helpful practice to get into in the in the beginning.
And I also want to point out that when you're giving
feedback, it's not just to the people who report to you, you
will also be giving feedback up to your manager.
You'll also be doing feedback across the organization to
people that are your peers or that you work with.
If there's no reporting relationship.
So there's not necessarily a power differential, but it's
important to think about and build the skill for giving
effective feedback. So the first question you want
to ask yourself around, giving effective.
Feedback is number one. What is the effect that you want
to have? When you give this feedback, are
you trying to create a behavior If your change is there
something different you want to see somebody do?
Is there something in their behavior?
You want them to do differently, are you giving this feedback
because you want to create a change in their attitude or
perspective? Is that the effect that you're
trying to have is the effect that you are wanting to give
this person a feeling of being encouraged.
Or a feeling valued. Are you trying to build
confidence in someone? What is the effect that you're
trying to have that? You're intending to have here
because depending on what the effect that you want is that
will influence the feedback. You give the way that you give
it the time. Like the when of when that
feedback happens does. Feedback need to happen
immediately or is this feedback that you want to plan for?
But still, you're going to be documenting some observations
and kind of, you know, doing the timeline and a little bit of a
different way. You want to think about what is
the effect? What is or another way to think
of it? As what is the point?
Like what, what is the point of giving feedback?
Like, what is it that you want, you know, to come from doing
this? And that's honestly often A lot
of what I coach my one-on-one clients on is, they will come to
their coaching session and say I need to give this feedback to
this person. I don't know how to do that.
How do I do that? How do I say this?
And sometimes that question is, because it's a power
differential, it's someone who is in a higher position.
And so there's concern about how do I give this feedback to that
person up there in a way that, you know, Doesn't blow back on
me in a way that is effective. Like, what does that look like?
Sometimes it's around. You know, how do I give feedback
to this person? They don't report to me, they're
not on my team but they're doing something that is affecting my
team or they're doing something in the way that they work with
me, that I'm, I don't feel right about and I don't know how to
say something about it or sometimes it's around the person
that reports to them saying, I have this person on my team,
I've given them feedback their You're still isn't changing and
I don't know why I told them, you know, they need to do this
and they said, yes, I understand, but they're not
doing it. Like, what, what do I need to
do? How do I give them feedback in
order to create this change that I'm looking for?
So that's something that can take.
Number one, a lot of mental space in your mind like
wandering over and over again. How am I going to say this?
I don't want to. Is, how am I going to say this?
What's going to happen, it can take up so much time in your, in
your mind and also a lot of energy and a lot of emotions.
So that's something that I do work a lot with with folks on
because I want you to develop your own strategic thinking
around this, because there will come a time when you will really
be on your own, and you want to feel prepared, you want to trust
yourself that you have a strategy for, how you give
feedback that you've got some time.
Tactics some specific things that you can do to be effective
and you want to have had the practice of thinking through
what is the effect that I want. And that might be a couple of
different levels of Effectiveness.
Like there might be an immediate Behavior change you want, but
ultimately, you also want to see a change in attitude or
perspective, you want to help them to feel valued and
connected to the bigger picture. So that they show up feeling a
little Little bit more engaged in the work they're doing and
why they're doing it. There are so many different
angles to what it means to give effective feedback.
So that becomes something that we talk about because it's a
skill that you're going to need for the rest of your career and
the faster and better, you get at it.
The better, the relationships that you have at work are the
better you sleep at night because you're not so worried
about the different conversations you need to have.
And the more energy you have for everything else, both at work
and outside of work. And one of the things that will
come up, I can pretty much guarantee you that when you are
thinking about feedback, the conversations that you need to
initiate, you are going to think about emotions.
What are the feelings in play here and this is both your own
emotions, whether it's dread at giving someone Negative feedback
or whether it's nervousness of speaking up to someone in a
higher position of authority, there might be emotions of real
frustration, because something has been going on a long time.
And you haven't seen change and you don't understand why you
also might have the worry or the concern about what are the
emotions or the feelings that this other person will have when
you initiate this. Ian and you might be worried
about how they respond. Well, they shut down.
Will they blow up? Will they say yes to my face and
just go back to do? You know, the thing that they
do? Well, they simply try to placate
me, or are they going to people, please me in the conversation
but then not actually follow through.
On the back end, you're going to have thoughts and concerns about
your emotions and their emotions.
And the one thing I know is that number one anyplace, Where you
are with humans emotions, are there too.
So it's not a problem. We want to be aware of it
though, so we can be very intentional and develop a skill
in dealing with the emotional part of relationships and of
humans. And the other part of it is as
the leader, when you're in that leadership role, you want to
understand work with and process.
Your emotions separately from Um being in the conversation and
wanting or needing them to do that for you or with you.
And this is kind of we can even categorize this as a kind of
emotional maturity that awareness of.
Okay. I'm going to have some emotions
here, but I'm going to deal with these separately on my own.
So that when I come into this conversation, I'm not in a state
of being reactive and overcome by my emotions.
And that is a skill that we need to learn and to develop that's
something that you choose rather than something that you just
like wake up one morning and it's like, congratulations.
You're now this age and you've got emotional maturity like it
does it just happen like that. You it really is a skill and a
choice and something that we can develop.
And and I share that in part because when we're not being
intentional about both awareness, Earnest of your own
emotions and processing them. Not just venting to a friend,
not just feeling them. But also understanding, why
like, why am I feeling this activated?
What is this about? The more understanding you have
about yourself in that, then the less kind of activated and you
know reactive you are in the moment.
So you And then me more effective in that conversation.
And the other effective that is when you have a better awareness
and you feel in a way more safe with your own emotions.
You also, then become less reactive to other people's
emotions. So, if somebody blows up,
instead of kind of reacting to that, it's, you can respond to
it as. Oh, that's really interesting
that that person is responding that Way.
And wonder what is going on there and sometimes what's going
on is that's just how they've always responded.
And it always worked like they were able to be effective in in
addressing whatever they were addressing.
You know, sometimes when people blow up or shut down, it just
means that they're very tired, right?
It sometimes is no more than that.
It's just exhaustion is now expressing itself through this
kind of emotional reaction. So I share all of this because
when you Thinking about how to give effective feedback knowing
that giving feedback is going to be part of the job and it is
going to be a lifetime value skill that you use.
That will reduce your stress when you feel comfortable and
confident with your strategy and your approach to feedback in
every direction up across and down it greatly improves your
quality. E of Life, your work experience
and you end up having more energy and more, you know, just
but better energy and a better use of time when you're not at
work, because then you're not thinking about it all the time.
So consider, what is the effect you're wanting to have?
Pay attention to what are the emotions that you're
experiencing or that you're afraid you're going to
experience. And what are the emotions you're
anticipating or Earring or being worried about sometimes it's not
something explosive. Sometimes it's simply the fear
of I don't want to disappoint this person or I don't want them
to feel let down because then I'll feel bad.
We want to get a handle on that emotional landscape so that you
can make decisions and really show up in a way that is
effective and helpful and supportive and human.
Our goal is not to eliminate emotions.
Our goal is to understand them better.
Better so that we can work with each other in a more intentional
and more effective way. So that is what I wanted to
share with you today. If you want to work with me
one-on-one, go into the show notes, schedule, a consult, we
can talk about it. And if you want to know about
future group programs, I'm starting to plan those.
Go to my show notes, and make sure that you are on my email
list. All right, thanks so much for
listening. I I'll talk to you next time.
Hey before you go if you like this podcast leave a review.
Tell me why you listen and what has helped you?
Thanks so much. I'll see you next time.