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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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If you're new to the show, my 
name is Kim nickel. 

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I'm a coach and I am here to 
help you feel more confident 

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about being a manager, whether 
you are currently managing 

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people or you're simply thinking
about it and this makes me want 

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to give a shout-out to one of my
listeners who recently left a 

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review of the podcast and said, 
I love this podcast, I have 

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always been terrified to be a 
manager for fear of not being a 

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good leader. 
This podcast has given me so 

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many tools to prepare myself to 
be a great manager listened to 

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100 episodes in a week and look 
forward to the new ones. 

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Yay! 
Oh, that makes me so happy. 

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I'm so glad to hear that. 
That's why I'm here, you know, 

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so many times I see that new 
managers get overlooked and kind

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Thrown in the deep end and 
expected to figure it out. 

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And I've decided it doesn't have
to be that way. 

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I've decided that, you know, it 
can be easier and that I will 

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make it easier for you and you 
will be here and it will just be

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simple. 
Like it can actually be easy. 

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Thanks to the Miracles of 
Technology. 

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Being able to get my ideas into 
this audio format and then make 

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it available for you whenever 
you need it. 

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Really do you Gov this podcast. 
As my audio library, anytime you

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need something, just come in. 
Look through the list of 

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episodes and choose what is 
helpful for you, because the 

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challenges that you face will 
change over time as your team 

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changes, as you yourself grow as
a person and meet new kinds of 

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challenges. 
And so it really is helpful to 

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know that this is here for you. 
And I'm really glad that it 

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helps, that's what it's all 
about. 

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I also have been thinking a lot 
about some of the kind of 

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unspoken roles of what it means 
to be a manager. 

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There has been an article that 
I've been seeing people 

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reference a lot on LinkedIn 
right now, about how managers 

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have a major impact on the 
mental health and well-being of 

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their team. 
And that can feel like a lot of 

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pressure. 
Right. 

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Now, all of a sudden people are 
looking at you say, you, you 

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have responsibility for my 
mental health and well-being 

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that can definitely feel like, 
am I trained for that? 

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You know, that's, that's a lot 
to carry and I know, especially 

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with the folks that I coach, 
that's already top of mind, 

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right? 
You already know having had a 

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manager, you know, from your own
experience. 

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That your relationship to your 
manager has a huge effect on 

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your quality of life on your 
stress levels, on your sense of 

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confidence and Effectiveness and
well-being. 

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And then when you sit in that 
driver seat, and now you are in 

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this leadership role, all of a 
sudden, it's like, oh, now that 

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falls to me, and it can feel 
like a lot of pressure. 

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And I saw also a couple of 
comments on LinkedIn around the 

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same. 
Three. 

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Someone said something to the 
effect of, you know, the best 

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way to improve your team's 
well-being, and mental health is

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to give them great managers and 
I kind of smiled but it kind of 

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made me sad too because I 
thought I don't think it's the 

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quite that easy. 
You don't just order a great 

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manager off of Amazon, you know,
and for folks who are really 

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learning how to do this learning
the skill of managing people, 

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Actively without a lot of 
mentorship or guidance. 

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There's a lot that you have to 
figure out as you go and so I 

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feel like it's just not really 
fair to say, you know, just give

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people good managers because 
it's actually kind of hard when 

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you are first stepping into that
role and the other thing I see 

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is a lot of organizations 
genuinely want to support their 

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managers and help them to be 
better. 

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Because everyone benefits when 
they feel confident and prepared

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and equipped and able to handle 
this new role, but a lot of 

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organizations also struggle to 
know exactly how to do that. 

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It's just a tricky thing to do 
because it's not 

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one-size-fits-all and you come 
into different manager, skills 

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and Leadership skills, you need 
those skills often before you 

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even get the official. 
Hater. 

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You already start developing the
communication skills, you start 

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needing to develop the mindset 
skills. 

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And so, I just share that 
because I know that the only 

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reason you're listening is 
because you care about doing a 

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great job. 
You take your responsibilities. 

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Seriously you're a high 
achieving person because I am 

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very certain that the people who
just don't really care. 

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They're not listening to this 
podcast, they're listening to 

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something else. 
So I know that you care. 

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I know. 
That you work hard. 

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I know it can, sometimes feel 
both overwhelming and just like,

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not really sure of how to become
a great manager for your people 

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and for yourself. 
And right now, just because of 

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what I've been seeing in the 
conversations around leadership,

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you know, in the broader 
ecosystem, I just want to 

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acknowledge that if you are 
feeling extra pressure on your 

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shoulders, right now that might 
B, y, and it's, it's okay. 

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I want to offer a different 
perspective to you to, hopefully

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lighten, that burden a little 
bit. 

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And the perspective I want to 
offer is that you don't need to 

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be the hero meaning, it's not to
you to make everything, right? 

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It's not to you to create the 
perfect and ideal work 

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environment for yourself and for
nobody on your team, it's not on

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your shoulders to do the heroic 
effort of picking up all the 

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slack and doing everything on 
your own. 

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And I know sometimes we do put 
on a brave face and we do want 

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to show up resilient and strong 
and resourceful, but what I've 

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noticed is that we can sometimes
go a bit too far and it's easy 

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to do that and thinking of ones 
Eliphaz. 

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It's all on me. 
I have to be the hero in this 

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situation. 
We can become over responsible, 

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meaning we take on more than 
what is actually in your control

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and you take on more instead of 
building other kinds of skills 

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like instead of having a 
difficult conversation or 

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instead of you know, learning 
how to delegate effectively, 

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Effectively instead of doing 
that we say I'll just take it on

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I'll just do it myself that way.
It'll be done, right? 

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Also I don't want to burden my 
team. 

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They're already really busy so 
we sometimes can slip into the 

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idea of being the hero. 
And I think that's easy to do 

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because in this culture and I'm 
speaking, I'll say specifically 

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as an American in the United 
States who works with a lot of 

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US based companies. 
There is a very Very strong, 

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kind of Mythology and admiration
for the hero and what the hero 

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represents is an individual. 
So a single person it's not 

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about Community. 
It's about you yourself separate

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from Community. 
It's an individual who takes on 

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more than what others do or can 
do who always comes through. 

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Through unharmed or if they are 
injured or harmed along the way,

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they hide it, they recover in 
silence, they never show any 

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vulnerability or any sense of 
not being able to handle it. 

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There's a sense that they're 
also above and beyond everyone 

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else. 
So not just being a top 

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performer, but being, you know, 
the smartest. 

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Store the cleverest or the most 
strong or that infinitely 

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resourceful the never tiring 
person. 

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That is always going above and 
beyond and they're often seen as

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Brave. 
And they are often celebrated by

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others for seeming to possess 
these qualities. 

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So it's kind of like if you if 
you're the hero you better save 

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the day because that's how You 
become valued. 

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That's what gets you praise. 
That's what gets you love. 

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That's what gets you accepted, 
you know, by the community. 

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And so the hero story can end up
creating isolation it can end up

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creating distance. 
It can end up creating hiding 

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your whole human self hiding. 
The fact that sometimes you have

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that days or Sometimes you might
make a mistake or make a wrong 

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judgment call or just, you know,
be a human with other things 

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happening in your life. 
You're not completely 100% 

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focused on work all the time. 
And that adds to this feeling of

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pressure, which doesn't help 
like the whole point. 

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But I want to invite you to 
consider is that, you know, sure

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like the hero Persona the hero 
story Is okay, but it's not a 

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complete identity and it's not 
always the best choice, but it's

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really easy to feel like that's 
what's required, because it's so

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infused in our culture. 
And so you'll see it reflected 

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back to you, and lots of 
obvious, but also subtle ways, 

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and it's easy to feel like that.
It's the job and that's 

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required. 
And my perspective is it's not. 

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You are a human. 
You are learning how to work 

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with other humans in the 
workplace, right? 

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But it doesn't it doesn't 
require heroics. 

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I mean maybe once in a while 
fine you know but it's not a 

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sustainable way to live. 
It is not a sustainable way to 

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grow. 
It is not a sustainable way to 

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be in your career because it 
just creates too much pressure, 

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too much hiding too much 
anxiety, too much over working 

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and over responsibility and that
ultimately ends up getting in 

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your own way. 
So there was one thing in that 

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article about managers having an
impact on their team's mental, 

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Health and emotional well-being,
that I really loved and it was 

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one of the first things they, 
the author suggested is, what do

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you do as a manager? 
Number one, you start by 

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managing yourself and if you 
only did that, that would be 

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enough. 
And the reason I say that is 

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because when you are managing 
yourself, that requires you to 

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stay connected and present and 
aware with how you're doing as a

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In both, in terms of your 
physical well-being, your 

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emotional well-being. 
You're like intellectual and 

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creative well-being but also 
your sense of spirituality, 

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meaning your sense of Legacy. 
The big picture about why you're

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here on the planet. 
And when you have a sense of 

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those four domains, it really 
helps you to feel grounded. 

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It gets you rested. 
It helps you focus more 

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effectively. 
Rather than trying to do 

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everything, it helps you to be 
more Discerning and you're able 

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to recognize sooner when you 
start to creep into that burnout

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stage or that kind of shut down 
and withdrawal stage or the 

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resentment stage resentment, can
creep up very slowly but it 

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accumulates and it becomes very 
corrosive, meaning it will drain

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your energy. 
G and just give you this 

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incredible sense of unease and 
it'll just have all kinds of 

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adverse Ripple effects when we 
carry resentment for far too 

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long. 
So the sooner that you're able 

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to identify and then understand 
what's going on that you're 

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feeling that way process, it you
then get into your agency and 

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autonomy. 
What is it? 

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That's within my scope of care. 
What is it? 

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That I can't. 
Take responsibility for. 

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And what do I let go of? 
What? 

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Exactly am I managing here? 
It's not everything. 

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It's not everyone. 
It's just what specifically am I

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managing here? 
And I'm remembering to. 

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There's this quote, I wanted to 
share with you from this book 

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that I'm reading. 
The author's name is Tanya 

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Wilkinson. 
The book is called Persephone 

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returns and there are two 
quotes. 

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The first one is this the 
specifics of the hero Persona 

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vary according to family and 
gender role expectations. 

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But the fantasy of 
invulnerability, through some 

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form of perfection is 
consistent. 

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Okay, I need to read that last 
part again, because it's so 

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good. 
The fantasy of invulnerability, 

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through some form of perfection 
is Ain't So maybe for you. 

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It's that internal. 
Thought that internal story of 

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if I am perfectly strong then I 
will prevail and I won't I won't

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be vulnerable to things going 
wrong or it might be if I am 

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perfectly prepared. 
If I have perfect information or

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if I'm able to manage, Other 
people perfectly, then I will be

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invulnerable. 
I will be protected from any 

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harm as a result of being 
perfect. 

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It's such an interesting 
perspective around that 

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perfectionistic tendency. 
If you were, you know, an a 

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student and you equated hard 
work with that external 

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evaluation external. 
Validation and then the reward 

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of that. 
Hi Mark. 

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Then that shows up there to the 
sense of if I'm if I'm a perfect

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student and I get perfect scores
then I will be safe from 

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whatever imperfection brings and
it might be you know 

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disappointment from your parents
or it might feel like losing out

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on a scholarship. 
Like there might feel feel like 

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something is really at stake 
there if I'm not Like to 

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something really bad will 
happen. 

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And so the fantasy of 
invulnerability through some 

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form of perfection, it's really 
interesting to start to just 

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notice all the subtle ways that 
that shows up. 

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And then one other quote from 
this book that I loved, she 

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writes on a cultural level 
identification with the hero, 

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Persona encourages, a picture of
life that excludes normal. 

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Common vulnerability. 
And so the reason this matters 

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and the reason this becomes so 
important to reflect on is 

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because normal human experience,
just being alive. 

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As a person includes moments of 
feeling vulnerable, moments of 

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feeling like, you don't know 
what you're doing, you can't 

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control other people, you can't 
control what's going to happen. 

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And when we think, gosh, if I 
was Good enough, then. 

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I wouldn't have to face that 
feeling of being vulnerable. 

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It really does us a disservice. 
Sometimes what I see is, we 

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think, oh, if I'm perfect enough
in my whatever, in who I am, or 

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my communication, or in my 
intelligence or in my knowledge,

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if I'm perfect enough, I won't 
have to have an uncomfortable 

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conversation because I will use 
my perfection to avoid any 

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conflict and Anything that might
possibly go wrong, we think we 

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can control things by having 
this kind of death grip on 

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ourselves and making ourselves 
perfect and whatever which like 

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shape or form that story holds 
in our own mind. 

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And so, you know, coming back to
this, big picture of you don't 

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need to be the hero here. 
There will be times that are 

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hard. 
That is a human experience we 

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want. 
Welcome the humanity, we want to

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welcome being a human. 
Both for yourself, I just 

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genuinely feel that's a more 
satisfying and rewarding way to 

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live than trying to have kind of
a Stranglehold and feel like I 

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have to get this perfect and 
right in order to save the day 

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that is hard and I don't think 
that actually brings us to the 

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place that we want to be in 
terms of being a leader. 

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Leader, and being present, and 
being human with other humans at

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work, but it's really present in
the culture around us in so many

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ways. 
So it's so much about just 

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becoming more aware, so that you
can manage yourself care for 

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yourself and that, then lets you
step away from all of that 

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pressure so that you can step 
into your agency your autonomy. 

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So that You can be a strategic 
in your thinking so that you can

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be a feeling whole human. 
And from there make intentional 

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decisions, not the reactive 
ones, not the ones that you're 

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trying to escape out of the 
discomfort or Escape out of the 

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anxiety. 
But instead kind of standing on 

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the ground of who you are and 
what's happening now, What are 

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the decisions that you want to 
make when you're not required? 

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To be the hero? 
And when you're not required, to

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use Perfection as some kind of 
tool, or a shield, or as a way 

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of kind of trying to protect 
yourself. 

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It becomes a really different 
experience. 

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So that is what my hope is for 
you today is that you can live 

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this week with a little bit less
pressure realizing that you 

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know, you're A human and being a
manager. 

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Brings a lot with it, but you 
can learn and you can become 

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more intentional and you can 
become more skilled. 

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It is an iterative process, it's
not all or nothing, it's not, 

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you've learn it and you're done.
It is an art and it is on going 

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because you know you grow you 
change and so does your team and

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so does your organization. 
So that is what I wanted to 

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leave you with today. 
Thank you so much for listening.

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I'll talk to you next time. 
Hey before you go if you like 

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this podcast leave a review. 
Tell me why you listen and what 

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00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,500
has helped you? 
Thanks so much. 

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00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:04,900
I'll see you next time. 
I'll talk to you next time. 

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Hey before you go if you like 
this podcast leave a review. 

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00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,200
Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

295
00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:20,800
Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.