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Welcome to the new Manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nichol. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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If you like this podcast, if 
it's ever helped you, do me a 

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favor and leave a rating or a 
review. 

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It really means a lot to me and 
it helps the show. 

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So thank you so much for doing 
that. 

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So, you know, last week we were 
talking about emotional labor 

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and then coincidentally on 
LinkedIn the other day, I saw 

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this great post also about being
a leader and emotional labor. 

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And I wanted to share it with 
you. 

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And this is from someone who is 
a vice president of marketing in

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their organization. 
His name is Evan Hughes, and he,

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you know, posted this to the 
public. 

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So I'm sharing it and extending 
it even even further. 

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And what he said was he said no 
one teaches you how much of 

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being AVP is emotional labor. 
Not strategy, not creativity, 

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not the playbooks. 
It's walking into a meeting 

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where sales is pissed and 
holding your ground without 

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making it worse. 
It's checking in with a team 

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member who says they're fine but
clearly isn't. 

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It's knowing when to speak up 
and when to let something slide.

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Even though it's eating at you. 
It's sitting with the pressure 

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and not passing it down, the 
stuff that actually makes you 

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effective. 
Most of it never shows up on a 

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dashboard. 
It's invisible. 

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But it keeps the team running, 
keeps the trust intact, and 

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keeps people from burning out. 
You learn quick that doing good 

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work isn't enough. 
You have to carry people through

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the hard days too, and nobody 
claps for that. 

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But that's the job. 
Keep going. 

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When I read this, number one, it
really resonated with me. 

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That reminded me of my 
experience being a manager. 

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It made me think of you and all 
of the people that I work with 

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who find me through this show 
who are looking for support as 

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they're stepping into leadership
roles. 

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And clearly it's resonated with 
other people because so far 

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thousands of people have been 
reacting and hundreds have been 

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leaving comments on his post, 
including me, by the way, 

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especially that part where he 
said the stuff that actually 

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makes you effective, most of it 
never shows up on a dashboard. 

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It's invisible. 
That is so true, is so accurate.

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And I wanted to share it with 
you for a couple of reasons. 

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One is it brings this 
perspective that I hope will be 

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comforting and kind of 
restorative for you, which is 

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that if you feel sort of 
overwhelmed or surprised or 

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drained by the emotional labor 
part of your job, my hope is 

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that you'll understand how 
common this is. 

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It's not something that you 
alone might feel surprised by or

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might feel kind of overwhelmed 
by. 

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That Also, someone who is at a 
very high level in their career,

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who's working as a VP of 
marketing, they're also 

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experiencing this. 
So it's not something that, oh, 

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you know, the longer I do this, 
it will go away. 

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It's not like, oh, this is just 
because I'm a new manager. 

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And so I'm having to figure this
out. 

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It is a very ever present part 
of the work of leadership when 

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you have that responsibility on 
your shoulders. 

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And it's it is one of those 
invisible skills that often is 

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not called out specifically in a
job interview or even in a 

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performance review, but it's a 
very real part of how you get 

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the work done. 
For as long as you're working 

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and moving into leadership 
roles, you can expect to be 

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doing emotional labor. 
So it's part of your leadership 

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journey. 
And if no one else mentioned 

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that to you, then you're not 
alone. 

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For a lot of folks, including me
when I was a manager and 

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including a lot of people on 
LinkedIn, yeah, that's often how

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it goes. 
And the other part is that 

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because this is so if we know 
that a big part of being 

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effective in the job of managing
and leading, if we know that a 

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big part of being successful and
effective in that job requires 

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emotional labor, then it becomes
very clearly and vividly 

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important that you are being 
mindful of your own mental 

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health and your emotional 
well-being. 

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Because emotional labor is hard 
enough. 

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And when we are, you know, 
really struggling with our 

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mental health or with our 
emotional well-being, if we're 

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feeling undermined in our own 
lives, in that space, then it 

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makes the emotional part of work
even harder. 

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So it's so important that you 
are tending to and caring about 

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your own emotional health, your 
own mental well-being. 

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And that can include everything 
from simply remembering you have

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a body and your mind works 
better when you put down the 

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screen and actually like go for 
a walk or have a glass of water 

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or take your dog outside or 
connect with your family or 

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connect with a part of you that 
is very important. 

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That has nothing to do with your
career in the workplace. 

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Simply being mindful and 
connected to that part of you 

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will help to give you that 
resilience, as well as that 

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quality of internal calm and 
grounding that allows you to 

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show up your best in all of 
these different situations at 

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work. 
When I think about what helps me

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and what has helped me back in 
the days when I was managing 

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people, really the ground from 
which I teach and coach and even

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create this podcast for you. 
For me, it comes back to 

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mindfulness because it's this 
very, in a sense, very simple 

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kind of way of being, like very 
simple practice, but it becomes 

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very useful in so many different
situations. 

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So to be clear, when I'm talking
about mindfulness, I'm thinking 

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of this as a quality of 
attention. 

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So if your attention is frenetic
and distracted, then you know, 

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we're probably not being very 
mindful. 

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We're probably being more 
reactive or more activated or 

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moving from more of a stress 
response. 

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And for some of us, when our 
stress response get activated, 

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we want to exert more control 
over a situation. 

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Or for some of us, when our 
stress response gets activated, 

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we become even more anxious as 
we're trying to predict what 

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will happen. 
We're trying to plan for all the

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worst case scenarios. 
For some of us, when our stress 

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response gets activated, we go 
into hero mode or helper mode, 

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which can cause us to lose sight
of the big picture and instead 

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focus on some more kind of 
narrow things. 

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Like that's where when as a 
manager, sometimes we let go of 

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that bigger perspective and 
understanding our role and 

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instead we take on too much and 
we overwork and we, you know, 

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feel this really heavy 
responsibility to do everything.

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And that's not always the most 
effective way to approach 

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things. 
So we want to be very aware of 

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how is my quality of attention? 
Is it present? 

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Is it someplace else? 
This is a, a big part of being 

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mindful is simply becoming 
aware. 

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Where is my attention and what 
is the quality of it? 

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We also think of these three 
pieces, mindfulness as the 

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quality of attention where you 
are present. 

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Number one, you're in this 
moment, not in the future, not 

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in the past, not, you know, 
someplace else. 

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You're in this moment and you 
are curious. 

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So we suspend judgement for a 
bit, and we're simply interested

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and curious to learn more, 
curious to understand. 

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I'm curious about, you know, 
what the experience is and kind.

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And this quality of kindness 
that we bring to our attention 

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is what allows us to take some 
of the pressure off. 

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And, you know, like pressure is 
not necessarily good nor bad. 

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Some pressure can be very useful
and very wonderful. 

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But when we find ourselves 
putting pressure on like from 

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this place of judgment, that can
often create the conditions for 

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burnout, for chronic stress, for
not becoming like fully rested. 

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When we have that downtime, we 
want to bring a quality of 

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kindness where we're 
recognizing, OK, I am a human 

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and I have some clarity about my
role. 

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I have some clarity about my 
goals. 

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And I'm going to approach this 
with the the best of my ability 

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given the circumstances and 
given what I have to work with 

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right now. 
When we're able to approach 

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ourselves with kindness, it 
allows us to reduce the volume 

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on that internal critic, which 
can be very draining, can be 

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very distracting. 
And it also allows us to 

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approach from a more grounded 
place. 

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So when we're having a 
conversation or you know, when 

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we're in a situation that might 
be a little bit tense, when we 

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approach it from this grounded 
place of being present and 

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curious and kind, I think of in 
the workplace, kindness is, is 

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almost just this sense of hey, 
like we're here to do good work 

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together. 
We're here because we all want 

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this project to be successful. 
It doesn't mean you have to be 

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friends with everyone. 
It doesn't mean you have to be 

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like best buddies, But it's this
quality of we're on the same 

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side, we're on the same team. 
We all want this to go well. 

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That's why we're working 
together, right? 

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Like can I bring this quality 
into the room, into the 

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conversation or situation, even 
if I need to say something that 

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might be hard to hear, or even 
if we are in a disagreement or 

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we have very strong opinions 
that are very, very different. 

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I might be coming across in a 
way that feels very direct or 

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very blunt, but I'm going to be 
doing it from a place of 

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kindness, meaning I'm not 
attacking you. 

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I might be challenging the idea 
or I might be challenging the 

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process or the approach, but 
it's not from a place of being 

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unkind. 
That's such a an important 

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distinction. 
So there are so many different 

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situations that will happen in 
the course of your life and your

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work, and it would be exhausting
and honestly impossible to try 

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to predict every single one or 
have a plan for every single 

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one. 
So I like the idea of having 

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some kind of a foundation with 
some core principles that you 

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can bring into a variety of 
situations. 

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I find it just is very 
efficient, effective, elegant, 

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and more likely to be used in 
the course of real life. 

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So mindfulness is this wonderful
tool that you can think of. 

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It's like a Swiss Army knife in 
your pocket. 

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It's small, it does a lot of 
stuff. 

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It's not too complicated and 
highly useful. 

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And you're going to remember, 
OK, I need to need to start from

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this mindful place. 
Can I be curious? 

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Can I be present? 
Can I be kind? 

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And then bring that awareness 
into different situations. 

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One of the ways I teach this and
think about this is the 

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difference between being and 
doing. 

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So doing is all of the actions 
that we take. 

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But being, when we think about 
how are you being in this moment

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that is more about a quality of 
your presence, a quality of your

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attention? 
Are you being responsive or 

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reactive? 
Are you being grounded or are 

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you being volatile? 
Are you being critical? 

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Are you being curious? 
Can you choose the attunement or

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the direction of how you want to
be in this moment so that it 

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serves whatever is arising? 
You might have heard me share 

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this on an earlier episode. 
It's one of my favorite stories.

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But many years ago, one of my 
clients decided that she wanted 

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to practice being more patient, 
and she was in a senior 

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leadership role. 
She was feeling very impatient 

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with her team. 
She, you know, was just not 

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really trusting their judgment 
or their decisions. 

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And as a result of her 
impatience, she had a tendency 

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to kind of overcorrect when 
something was a little bit off. 

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And as a result of that, her 
team was feeling very 

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frustrated. 
And there was actually a lot of 

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tension happening. 
And So what she decided to try, 

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as we were working together, she
said, you know, I'm going to try

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being a little more patient. 
You know, maybe it's even just 

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like 10 percent, 15% more 
patient and a little bit more 

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curious. 
You know, she's like, if I can 

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be more patient, that'll give me
room to be more curious, to 

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really hear out this person's 
ideas or their proposal or just 

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let me stay with the curiosity 
and a little bit more patience 

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and maybe I'll just try that for
a week. 

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It doesn't have to be a huge, 
you know, redo of everything. 

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It doesn't have to be dramatic, 
but just, OK, I'm going to show 

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up being a little more patient. 
And the way we practice this is 

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you choose this intention. 
How do you want to be? 

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And then throughout the course 
of the day, you check in and you

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simply ask, how am I being right
now? 

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Am I being patient? 
I'm being curious, Am I being 

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present? 
And if you are being those 

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things, great, good job. 
And if you're not, then you 

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simply correct in that moment 
and you ask yourself, oh, I'm 

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not being very patient right 
now. 

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How can I adjust for that given 
the circumstances and the 

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situation that I'm facing? 
Maybe it just means taking a 

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breath before jumping in to 
share my ideas. 

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Maybe it means I'm just going to
hear this person out without 

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jumping in with enthusiasm for 
my own perspective. 

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So in that moment, you decide 
what can I do to bring a little 

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bit more patients so that I can 
be a little bit more patient, a 

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little bit more present in this 
moment? 

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Let me just try that. 
So she tried that and she 

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reported back to me that, you 
know, wow, things have been 

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really different. 
She's like, I had no idea that 

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it would be so effective and 
changing the dynamic with my 

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team. 
And over time, she became more 

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trusting and more interested. 
They became more trusting and 

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feeling more appreciative. 
And she ended up getting by 

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surprise, a really great 
performance review. 

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You know, she didn't, you know, 
she was doing OK, but she 

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started to get really positive 
feedback, not just from her 

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team, but from upper management 
who also had noticed this small 

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shift in how she was being. 
And so I want to share that with

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you because it can be easy to 
become overwhelmed with all of 

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the tools and all of the ideas 
and all of the things that are 

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happening really fast. 
And instead, you can think about

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how do I want to be in this 
moment? 

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And it doesn't have to be a, you
know, a complete change. 

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You can just think about how can
I adjust 10 percent, 15%, 

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something small and something in
the way that you are going to 

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be, the quality of presence and 
the quality of attention that 

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you are going to bring into the 
moment. 

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One of the cool things about 
mindfulness and about this work 

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around setting intentions is 
that you get better at it as you

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continue to practice. 
It is a skill. 

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It is something that you can 
cultivate and develop and it can

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become more easy to do. 
And, and I like knowing that, 

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right? 
It's kind of like wherever you 

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start, you can begin to build 
right from where you are. 

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So there's never a fear of, oh, 
I'm off track or oh, you know, I

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broke my streak. 
None of that. 

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It's just in this moment, where 
am I? 

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How am I doing OK and what can I
do to adjust to bring me into 

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greater alignment with that 
intention and to really show up 

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as the person that I want to be?
Now, sometimes this is where 

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it's really helpful to work with
a coach or to work in a class 

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with others who are working on 
this because we tend to do the 

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thing we have done the most. 
We tend to repeat the most 

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practiced thing. 
So if we're used to being very 

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reactive or you know, being 
surrounded by anxiety and we 

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kind of just absorb and then 
mirror that back. 

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If you're used to doing that, 
then you will have an easy time 

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doing that again. 
And it will take a little bit of

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intention to start to lay the 
groundwork to shift that. 

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So having a touch point where 
you can continue to both share 

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your celebrations, share your 
intentions, notice who are the 

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people or what are the specific 
situations that are the 

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trickiest for you. 
All of that can be easier when 

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we're with someone, when we have
a thought partner, a witness, 

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someone to cheer us on. 
Because the other thing about 

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being a leader is that it can 
get isolating and it can feel a 

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little bit lonely because so 
much of the work that you're 

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going to do can't be shared with
the people reporting up to you. 

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And sometimes it doesn't always 
feel right to make it visible or

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to share it with the your 
colleagues or with your manager.

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So it's good to have that for 
yourself in some capacity. 

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And remember, like again, this 
is not just you. 

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This is something that I think 
of as a very normal part of the 

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leadership developmental journey
you're going to. 

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You realize how much emotional 
labor is required to do this 

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job, and then you will need to 
cultivate for yourself a way of 

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being so that it doesn't drain 
you so fully and that you feel 

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more restored and can really be 
the kind of leader that you want

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to be. 
Well, you know, also being a 

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happy and fulfilled human being 
as well. 

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So that is what I wanted to 
share with you today. 

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If this has been helpful, leave 
a rating or a review. 

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If you'd like to do this work 
more deeply and fully with me, 

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There are two ways to do that. 
I am taking private clients so 

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we can work one-on-one focused 
on who you are as a a person, 

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focused on your goals and your 
situation. 

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Or I do have a course coming up,
so go into the show notes to 

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00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,840
find the link to that and be 
sure to sign up so that we can 

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work together in that setting. 
All right, thank you so much for

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listening. 
Thanks for all the work you do. 

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I hope you have a really great 
week and I will talk to you next

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time. 
When you're more effective at 

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work, you're happier in your 
life, and when you're happier in

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your life, you're more effective
at work. 

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I can help. 
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 

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00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,360
and sign up for a coaching 
consult. 

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It can get better.