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Welcome to the new Manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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Communication skills are one of 
my favorite things to coach and 

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teach on because when you 
develop these skills, when you 

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learn how to be more effective 
in the way that you communicate,

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not only are you able to get 
things done more easily and save

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more time and save more energy 
in your work life, but you will 

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also start using the skills in 
your personal relationships as 

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well and creating better 
relationships as a result. 

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If you think about it, so much 
of the way that we create 

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relationships and do our work is
through the way that we 

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communicate. 
It's how people feel 

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appreciated. 
It's how we build trust or how 

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we erode trust. 
It's how we convey what needs to

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be worked on, what is important,
where we people should put their

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attention. 
And so communication skills, you

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know, as a, as a topic, there's 
lots of nuance, lots of 

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different aspects to it. 
And it's so worthwhile to 

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understand for yourself, where 
are your strengths and what 

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skills do you want to develop 
and improve upon because it has 

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such a practical application in 
life and at work every day, and 

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especially as you're moving into
higher levels of leadership and 

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management and you know, in your
working career life. 

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So today I want to talk about 
over explaining why we do that 

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and what to do instead, how to 
think of it differently. 

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And I'll actually start with 
sort of the what to do instead. 

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And because it might feel kind 
of edgy, especially if you're a 

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person who thinks I don't over 
explain, I give the exact right 

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amount of information. 
Very often when we're the one 

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communicating, we don't feel 
like we're over explaining. 

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We feel like we're doing a very 
thorough, a very thorough job. 

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But if the person on the 
receiving side of that 

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communication, whether it is an 
e-mail, a direct message, a 

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presentation, just a 
conversation, if that person is 

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feeling overwhelmed, confused, 
shut down, lost, it's possible 

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that what feels like an 
appropriate amount of 

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thoroughness for you is actually
being experienced as over 

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explaining, giving too much, and
this person isn't quite sure 

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what to do with it. 
So rather than giving 

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information in a chronological 
way, for example, or giving it 

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in a completely comprehensive 
way, I want you to take a step 

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back and consider what is the 
goal here? 

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Are we trying to connect? 
Am I trying to, you know, make a

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request? 
Am I trying to change someone's 

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behavior? 
Maybe I'm wanting to give them a

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recommendation so that then they
behave in the direction of that 

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recommendation. 
Or maybe I am giving them 

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information or direction that 
then I want them to follow 

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exactly. 
When you have first that that 

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question answered in your own 
mind, what am I trying to get 

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them to do? 
Or what is it that we're talking

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about? 
You can then start there. 

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Say the main thing first and 
then prioritize the information 

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that follows it. 
Decide what is important to back

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up that topic and realize you 
don't have to say everything, 

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but instead you can say you 
know. 

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Here's my recommendation. 
I'll walk you through the 

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outline of my process. 
If you need the supporting data 

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or want to understand more about
how we got to that conclusion, 

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please let me know. 
I'm happy to answer questions or

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offer you that context 
separately. 

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When you do that, it helps to 
Telegraph quickly. 

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Where are we going? 
It's almost like giving someone 

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a chapter title in a book 
because it gives them just a 

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little bit of an indicator of 
like where where are we going 

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here? 
And then all of the information 

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is connecting back to that main 
topic area. 

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So they have a a bit of 
orientation around the 

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information. 
They know what to filter, they 

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know what to give more weight 
to, and it helps them to be more

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prepared and organized to hear 
you. 

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And then it makes you appear 
more organized, more together, 

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more prepared. 
And because when you present it 

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that way, it will also help you 
to come across as a bit more 

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assertive and a bit more direct.
And you can do all of this with 

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a lot of warmth, with a lot of 
rapport and connection and 

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kindness. 
Often I think we mistake being 

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direct with being unkind or 
being abrupt, and it doesn't 

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need to be that way. 
It can simply be from this very,

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you know, warm and kind place. 
All right, so here's our topic 

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today and I'll walk you through 
this. 

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And then if there are questions 
or we need to get more of the 

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information, I'm happy to 
provide that. 

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So why do people not do that? 
And when I say people, I mean 

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myself included. 
This is also something I had to 

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learn and discover. 
It was effective. 

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There are four reasons that I 
thought about that I wanted to 

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share with you because my guess 
is that they'll either be 

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something that you have done 
yourself or something that 

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you've observed others. 
And part of being a manager, you

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can think of it too as how can 
you help your team communicate 

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with you in the most effective 
way. 

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So with the episode today in the
framework that we're sharing, it

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might be something that you both
remember for yourself, you know,

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to lead with the main topic and 
then offer supporting context. 

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You can also share that with 
your team. 

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You can say, OK, you know, when 
we have this meeting, I'd like 

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you to start with the main topic
so I know where we're going, and

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then you can give me the 
relevant information behind it. 

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So you can also make that 
request in terms of how you work

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together and see what happens, 
see if it makes things easier 

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for everyone when they have that
approach in mind. 

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So why don't we not do that? 
Why do we tend to over explain 

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if we're not paying attention to
it? 

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Number one, I found is that 
there's a desire to be 

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comprehensive, especially when 
you're a very hard worker, when 

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you have a lot of care in the 
work you do, you might 

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understandably want to be very 
thorough. 

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And from the idea of being 
thorough and comprehensive, you 

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end up providing an overwhelming
amount of information, back 

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story, context. 
And the person who's receiving 

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that gets a little bit lost. 
They're not sure what they need 

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to focus on. 
They're not sure how all the 

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things will fit together and 
what is most relevant. 

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So watch out for that, 
especially if you're giving 

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feedback. 
This is something I've ever 

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spoken to in prior episodes, but
sometimes when people become 

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managers and now they're giving 
feedback, they think I'm going 

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to do a really good job. 
I'm going to give, you know, 25 

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different things that I've 
noticed that they can change and

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they're trying to be helpful, 
right? 

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I want to be really 
comprehensive and really 

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transparent. 
I'm going to find all the things

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that I think you could do 
better. 

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But on the other side, the 
person receiving that might feel

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overwhelmed. 
They don't know which one to 

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focus on 1st. 
They feel discouraged, like, oh,

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I can't do anything right. 
They're always nitpicking and 

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finding things that I'm doing 
wrong. 

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Even if you're approaching it 
with the best of intentions, the

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effect on the person receiving 
it might not match up with what 

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you think the effect or the 
impact is going to be. 

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So be mindful if your default 
setting is the value of being 

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thorough and comprehensive, be 
mindful that that may not be the

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thing you want to lead with or 
the driving force by which you 

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organize. 
The way that you communicate #2 

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building your case. 
So we can get over explaining if

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we feel that we need to build 
our case before we get to the 

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point. 
It's like we give all of the 

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reasons, all of the back story 
we're trying to create and like 

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a watertight ironclad basis for 
the thing we're going to say 

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next. 
And this I found really shows up

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if you are someone who is not 
used to getting the benefit of 

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the doubt. 
If you are someone who has 

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experienced getting lots of 
challenges, especially if they 

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seem kind of petty or unevenly 
distributed, you know, if you're

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a person and you say, you know, 
my colleagues offer this kind of

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half baked idea and everyone is 
like, oh, that's a great idea. 

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We love it, let's go with that. 
But when I present an idea, I 

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feel like I'm being scrutinized 
at a higher level. 

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I feel like the standard is 
different for me. 

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I feel like I really need to 
build my case and be much more 

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upfront about expecting a 
challenge. 

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That also can be why we can end 
up over explaining is if you've 

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had that experience. 
And so again, you want to be 

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mindful, you want to be aware of
what is the habit or the 

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practice that you have learned 
that you've developed. 

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And if it's this feeling of I 
never get the benefit of the 

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doubts I'm going to have to 
build my case. 

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You want to be cautious about 
over using that and you want to 

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know when you have that tendency
because there will be times when

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that is not the most effective 
strategy where you don't want to

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bury or lose that main point. 
You want to draw people's 

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attention to that headline 1st 
and then decide how much you 

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know, case building do you need 
to do. 

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And that might vary depending on
the context, depending on the 

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audience, depending on the other
circumstances around that 

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situation. 
Now, kind of related to this a 

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little bit is if you are someone
who feels very uncomfortable 

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with any kind of confrontation 
or a sense of being assertive, 

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this is where we kind of like 
warm up to the topic. 

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And so, you know, in contrast to
building your case where you're 

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like, I need to make this 
really, really strong before I 

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ask or, you know, make my 
request or may or share my 

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perspective or recommendation 
before I, you know, before I get

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there, I'm good. 
I just need to warm everything 

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up so I don't come across as 
being too pushy. 

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And this, too, is really an 
interesting thing because 

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different people get different 
kinds of feedback about their 

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communication. 
And this includes both across, 

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you know, the gender spectrum, 
different cultural contexts. 

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One person's style might be 
applauded as being very bold. 

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And then the other person's 
style might be, you know, they 

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might receive the feedback of, 
oh, you know, you're just, 

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you're too hard. 
You need to kind of soften it. 

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And so we're always trying to 
understand and triangulate, like

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where are we based on the 
feedback that we get from 

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others? 
We're always trying to find how 

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we can be effective in different
communication contexts. 

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And so if you are a person who 
has become very uncomfortable 

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around being perceived as 
confrontational or assertive, if

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that feels uncomfortable being 
direct, then you might put all 

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of the information up front and 
then at the very end, make your 

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request or provide the main 
point or the main thing that you

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want the person to do. 
And it's from this sense of 

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being deferential, a sense of 
needing to kind of warm up to a 

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thing before you name the thing.
And again, you know, we want to 

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be mindful of what is the bigger
picture context because there 

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are situations, especially in 
when we're thinking about a 

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multicultural workplace, we're 
being direct. 

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Depending on how and when we do 
that, it can register 

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differently. 
It can be interpreted 

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differently. 
So we want to remember, you 

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know, big picture, what is the 
environment and the professional

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cultural context in which you're
working And know for yourself, 

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there will be times when you 
might think, gosh, this feels 

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like I'm being too bold or too 
direct. 

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But remember, we're doing this 
in service of the listener. 

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How can I make it easy for them?
How can I organize this 

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information so that they know 
where we're going and it will 

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help us to get there faster if I
name that main topic right at 

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the start. 
So look for opportunities to 

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practice that. 
And if you feel like warming up 

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is your comfort zone, then we 
also want to practice expanding 

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your skills beyond that. 
And then lastly, if you are a 

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person who tends to be a very 
lateral thinker, a very 

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associative thinker, if you're a
verbal person and you actually 

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organize your thinking on the 
fly by talking it through or by 

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writing it through, then you may
have a tendency to over explain 

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things because the you know, the
the way that you are 

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communicating is actually for 
you because that's how you are 

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organizing your thoughts. 
And the tricky thing too, with 

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being a lateral thinker, an 
associative thinker, is that it 

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can be easy to get lost in the 
forest of all of the things that

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are connected. 
If you're like a very systems 

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level thinker, a very relational
thinker, if you understand how 

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all these things connect, it can
be easy to drift into a place 

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where you're now over explaining
and, and because it's not in 

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service of what is that desired 
outcome? 

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What is the goal? 
What is it that you want the 

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person receiving this 
communication to do with this 

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communication? 
What are you creating or wanting

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to be different as a result of 
this presentation, conversation,

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e-mail? 
You know, when we lose sight of 

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that which can happen, Ask me 
how I know. 

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This is one of the things that 
for me too, I've struggled with.

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I've had to learn when I'm 
communicating, it helps to have 

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a specific process where I'm 
able to organize my thoughts in 

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a draft or talk it through some 
place or with someone. 

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And that will then help me to be
more organized when I'm then 

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presenting or giving that 
information to whoever the 

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intended audience is. 
So the more that you also 

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understand about yourself is 
what this last one is also 

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really about. 
If you have a mind that just 

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works in a really expansive way 
where you can connect all the 

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dots and you might assume that 
other people are able to follow 

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you and they see the same thing.
Remember that we all see things 

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differently and our brains all 
process and work and are 

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organized a little bit 
differently. 

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So coming back to, you know, if 
our objective is to have this 

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effective and efficient 
communication, it's worth it to 

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take some time to think about 
it, reflect on it, organize it 

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before you, then send it out to 
that other person. 

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All of this means that it will 
be helpful to consider who is 

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your audience? 
What is the goal that you have 

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with this communication? 
What is it that you're trying to

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do in this conversation or 
presentation or or messaging? 

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Because when you choose to be 
very intentional in this way, 

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when you choose to say that main
point up front and then offer 

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whatever is the prioritization 
of information beneath that you 

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are helping your listener to 
focus and manage their 

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attention. 
And that is actually a very 

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valuable skill to be able to 
help manage where someone's 

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attention is going. 
It's almost like you're kind of 

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designing this experience so 
that when they receive the 

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information, it will enable them
to do something with it, or 

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it'll enable something to happen
in this relationship in a way 

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that makes things easier. 
So think about it in terms of 

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how are you managing their 
attention? 

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What is it that you would like 
them to focus on? 

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What is it that you would like 
them to do, or what is it that 

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you want to have happen next? 
Consider that first because it 

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will help you to organize your 
thoughts, organize what you want

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to say, and then help you to say
it in the most effective way. 

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I truly believe that the 
communication conundrums that we

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encounter in the workplace, 
especially when they arise from 

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being fast, I often feel like we
have this illusion that fast 

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communication is good 
communication. 

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Like if I respond quickly, 
things will happen faster. 

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But what I often see is that we 
can escalate and entangle 

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problems through that fast 
communication. 

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It's not just it's not just that
things happen faster and better.

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It's like things can get more 
confusing and we can waste more 

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time faster when our 
communication isn't being when 

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we're when we're not being 
thoughtful and deliberate in the

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way that we communicate. 
And you know, like with all 

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skills, the more you practice 
it, the better it you become at 

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it and the easier it is. 
So with today's episode, I want 

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you to take a moment to notice 
which of these different aspects

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that we talked about really 
stands out to you and where do 

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you want to apply that in the 
coming week? 

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Is there a meeting coming up 
that you can plan in this way? 

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Is there a specific relationship
you have with someone at work? 

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And you think, Oh my gosh, every
time we meet, they go on and on 

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and on and I never know what the
point is. 

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Is there an opportunity for you 
to get ahead of that and say, 

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hey, before we start, I'm just 
curious to know what, what will 

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be the main point that you want 
me to focus on today? 

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OK, great. 
Now go right. 

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Like how can you influence the 
shape of the communication and 

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the conversation in the 
presentation using some of these

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concepts to make things better, 
not just for you, but also for 

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your team and all the folks you 
work with? 

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So that's what I wanted to share
with you today. 

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Thank you so much for listening.
If you like this episode, leave 

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00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,400
a review, please leave a 
comment. 

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00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,840
It would mean the world. 
I always love hearing how people

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00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,000
are taking this information and 
using it. 

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And you can always find me also 
on a LinkedIn and let me know 

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00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,520
there. 
All right, thanks for listening.

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Have a great week and I will 
talk to you later. 

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When you're more effective at 
work, you're happier in your 

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00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,200
life, and when you're happier in
your life, you're more effective

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00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,000
at work. 
I can help. 

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00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,600
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 
and sign up for a coaching 

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00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,040
consult. 
It can get better.