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Welcome to the New Manager 
Podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nicoll. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well today. 

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You are going to want to have a 
pen and a notebook for this 

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episode because I am so pleased 
to share with you a conversation

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that I had with my friend and 
fellow coach Maggie Reyes. 

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Now, Maggie is a marriage coach.
She is an expert and knows so 

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much about relationships. 
But before she became a coach, 

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she worked in HR for many, many 
years. 

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She worked in HR for a law firm.
She also worked in HR in the 

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hospitality industry, and she 
has a wealth of knowledge to 

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share about how to effectively 
work with HR and lots of 

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specific practical tips for all 
kinds of situations that will 

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come up in the course of your 
experience working with people. 

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So be ready to take some notes. 
This one is really good and 

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let's get into the conversation.
Welcome, Maggie. 

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Thank you. 
Thank you for having me. 

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I'm so excited to talk all the 
HR things. 

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I'm really excited for you to be
here too as we get started, 

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would you please introduce 
yourself? 

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Yeah, so I'm a big fan of Kim's,
so I am a master certified life 

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coach. 
I'm a marriage coach, so I help 

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Type A women. 
High achieving women have better

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relationships. 
And before I was a coach I 

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worked in human resources and I 
worked several years in 

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training, then several years in 
recruiting. 

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And at the end of my HR career 
before I started my business, I 

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did a little bit of both and I 
was involved in a lot of 

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different HR things. 
So I cannot wait to discuss 

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everything that's on your mind 
over the course of several of 

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all the different years that I 
worked in HRI. 

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Both hired new managers, I 
helped train new managers and I 

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just, I think I have a different
perspective than a lot of 

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people. 
I was also kind of a rebellious 

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HR person in the sense that I 
felt like I was always an 

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advocate for the employee. 
And that was my number one job. 

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And that's like why I was paid 
was to be the advocate for the 

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employee. 
And so sometimes, you know, you 

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have to roll out things for the 
company or do whatever the 

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things you're doing. 
But I always did it through a 

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very particular and I think 
unique lens. 

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And so I can't wait to see what 
we dig into today. 

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I am really glad that you're 
here for so many reasons. 

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I'm also a huge fan of Maggie 
and I really appreciate that you

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have the real world experience 
working in HR like out in the 

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industry, and that you also now 
have all of this depth of 

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experience in coaching and 
especially marriage because 

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that's all about relationships. 
And I know there's so much that 

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you know from your experience in
HR, but also as a coach around 

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how do we create great 
relationships and how does 

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communication happen and what do
we do when, you know, there 

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might be a a relationship that 
needs repair, How do we do that 

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with conversation? 
And because one of the reasons I

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was so excited to have you here 
too is one of the things I see a

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lot is often when there is 
friction between a manager and 

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their person. 
And this could be something the 

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manager is experiencing, like 
I've got this difficult person, 

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or it can be someone saying I 
don't like how my manager is 

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being. 
And a lot of the advice I see 

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just in the comments are, oh, 
you need to talk to HR. 

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And I have like feelings about 
that. 

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But I especially am curious for 
you, for the people who are 

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listening who actually don't 
know what HR is for because it's

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different in different 
companies. 

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I am so curious to know your 
thoughts about like what is HR 

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for and what do new managers 
need to know about working with 

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HR? 
So maybe we paint a picture of 

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the what I think the best HR is 
for and what I think most HR is 

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for. 
So I think in an ideal world, 

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human resources like any other 
department, right, you have like

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supply chain, you have design, 
you have marketing. 

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That department is in charge of 
of the resources to execute the 

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company's vision to change the 
world, to have an impact, to 

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sell their product, whatever it 
is that they do. 

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And HR is the steward of the 
most important thing, which is 

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the talent of the company. 
So that's what I think HR should

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be for. 
And in some companies is for. 

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However, in many companies 
there's what I would view as a 

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reductionist view of HR, where 
HR is there to protect the 

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company from its own employees. 
And there's a lot of people 

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without scarcity mindset and 
leadership positions. 

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If that's how they view HR, 
that's how they lead HR and 

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that's how the HR leaders 
themselves act towards the 

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employees. 
And sometimes, no matter how 

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well meaning an HR professional 
might be, if the leadership of 

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the company is, is telling them 
no, your role is to just protect

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us from them. 
That's when you hear sort of 

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adversarial kind of things like,
oh, HR didn't help me or HR is 

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not, you know, I made an 
appointment. 

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It took them three months to 
help with like stuff like that 

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where you kind of hear the 
complaints about it. 

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I think that that that is 
something that happens more 

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often than any HR professional 
would like. 

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When a person works in HR, it's 
because they love people. 

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They want to help people. 
The person who goes into that 

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profession is 100% there for the
people and sometimes your hands 

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are tied for what you can do for
the people and and and what you 

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would like to do in an ideal 
world. 

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So I was a little rebellious in 
that sometimes I would just say 

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the things that nobody was 
saying or I would say, listen, I

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can't put that in an e-mail, but
come to my office and let's 

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discuss what's going on. 
So that's why I have a maybe a 

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little bit of, I don't know, I 
call it rebellious now point of 

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view, but I hope that gives you 
sort of an idea of how I 

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perceive how that works. 
Wow. 

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And so for a manager who's 
thinking like, what are the 

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kinds of things I should loop my
HR person in for? 

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What does that look like? 
And. 

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And you go ahead, go. 
Ahead, Yeah. 

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So what are the kinds of things 
you should reach R? 

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First, you want to find out what
kind of HR team do you have? 

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Do you have the kind of HR team 
that's there to support you 100%

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behind you, that's open door. 
That's really like that kind of 

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HR team. 
Or do you have the HR team that 

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is more legalistic in their 
mindset? 

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Sometimes you can look at who HR
reports to and some companies 

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they report into the legal team 
and then sometimes they report 

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into somewhere else or sometimes
they have a whole like chief HR 

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or people officer or something 
like that. 

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So you want to just have a 
conversation. 

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You can ask your HR person. 
I would strongly recommend if 

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you're a brand new manager, do 
make an appointment with HR and 

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say I want to know how you can 
help me succeed at my role. 

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What are the things that I 
should come to you for? 

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You ask them what are the things
I should come to you for? 

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What are the things you expect 
me to resolve on my own? 

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What are the resources I have? 
If you're a brand new manager 

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and you've never dealt with 
budgets, what's my training 

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budget? 
What's my training budget for my

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people? 
What's my training budget for 

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myself? 
What kind of training do you 

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have for new managers? 
So larger companies will have 

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internal trainings for new 
managers and they'll just have a

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process that put you through. 
Smaller companies may not even 

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have even thought of that. 
And I was in both situations 

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where I worked in a very large 
company with thousands of 

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employees and then I worked in a
much smaller company where we 

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had to advocate for the training
budget. 

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So that's where I would start is
make your appointment and ask 

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them and then you can see from a
more informed and strategic 

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place where you can get their 
support and where you should 

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like stay away. 
I love that answer so much 

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because what I'm really hearing 
is #1. 

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It's OK to not know, right? 
Like you don't need to just 

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magically know. 
And it's OK to ask. 

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Asking is not a bad thing. 
It's OK to ask. 

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Like, how do we work together? 
What are you for? 

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What? 
When should I reach out? 

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Yes. 
What are your expectations from 

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me? 
What do you need from me? 

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I think it would be so amazing 
if a new manager went to HR and 

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said what are the things you 
need from me that will make your

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job easier or harder if I miss 
them or if I don't like. 

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First of all, that will impress 
the HR people and it's super 

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useful to have an advocate 
within HR when you're a new 

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manager if it's just super 
useful. 

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And so when you ask them stuff 
like that, like I used to in a 

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smaller company, people would 
have to sign off. 

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Each department head would have 
to sign off on like the time and

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the payroll part of their 
people. 

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And it was incessantly late. 
So if we had a new manager come 

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in and like really take that 
seriously and have it all in on 

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time, it just makes five other 
people's jobs easier from them 

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just asking that one very simple
question. 

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I love that too, because it also
is a reminder that just because 

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you're a new manager and you're 
thinking clash, I'm new. 

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I've never done this before. 
I know there's often an 

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assumption. 
Surely someone will tell me what

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I need to know. 
And I think that just doesn't 

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happen. 
And it's not because people are 

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bad or because they, you know, 
don't want you to do well, but 

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it, you know, people are busy. 
They forget they don't know what

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you don't know because you're 
new. 

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And it can be easy to kind of 
get lost. 

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And what you said about taking 
that strategic perspective and 

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asking questions and finding out
like, that's so important. 

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I'm so glad you shared that. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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One of the biggest questions 
that people I know listen to the

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podcast or. 
And I know this because I've 

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seen the numbers of what people 
listen to. 

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So for all my listeners, like 
this question is especially for 

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you, when there is friction and 
a manager doesn't know how to 

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handle it, what is your 
perspective, especially now that

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you're a master certified coach,
you are. 

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So you have so much expertise 
around relationships and 

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communication as one of your, 
you know, superpowers. 

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How might you help a manager 
with that? 

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Tell me if you can, if it comes 
to mind, a couple of the types 

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of friction that you have in 
mind and I'll just say a global 

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answer while you think about 
that, because the type of 

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friction will determine what 
your course of action might be. 

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So depending on what it is, you 
might not consult with HR, you 

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might go to a mentor, someone 
else in the company, maybe 

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someone in a different 
department or someone more 

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senior in your own department. 
Depending on what it is, you 

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might have to file a report and 
and log the situation and have 

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more of a paper trail about it. 
So it kind of does depend on a 

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case by case basis on what the 
nature of the friction is. 

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Sometimes it's underperformance.
So I'll just give you that 

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example. 
If a person, let's say they're 

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brand new, they were within 
their 90 days, they got all the 

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training, everybody on the team 
came together, really set this 

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person up for success and now 
they're just not performing the 

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way we need to for whatever 
reason. 

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That might be a performance 
improvement plan. 

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That might be a conversation 
about these are our 

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expectations, this is what we 
want to see. 

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What's in your way, how can we 
support you, which would be very

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different than friction of this 
person has a terrible attitude 

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when they get assignment or 
something like that, right. 

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So that's what I mean by 
depending on what it is, you 

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might have five different 
strategies that you use in order

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to help yourself in that 
situation as a new manager. 

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So now that I said that a little
bit, what comes to mind is sort 

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of stuff you see maybe a lot 
that we want to really give some

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clear steps for. 
Yeah. 

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And I also just love that 
question of identifying what 

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kind of friction do we have, 
because we can have different 

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kinds and that will influence 
what we do. 

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So when is the situation where 
someone gets promoted and 

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they're now managing someone 
else who had applied for that 

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same role? 
Everyone works in the same 

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company. 
They might have even been on the

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same team. 
They go for the promotion, one 

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person gets it, the other person
doesn't. 

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And then it seems like the 
person who did not get the 

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promotion is maybe exhibiting 
some passive aggressive behavior

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or just, you know, you can sense
like something here is a little 

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like we've got some friction 
here. 

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So as a new manager, if I was in
that situation the first thing I

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would say is I would take 
ownership of the relationship as

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if it was 1 sided. 
As if I could decide how it 

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went. 
Like, I'm going to own this 

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relationship with this person. 
And from a place of ownership, I

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would say, what do I want to do 
with this person? 

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Do I want to create more rapport
with them? 

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Do I want to, like, invite them 
to a meeting? 

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Do I want to put that elephant 
in the room and say, hey, this 

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is how it shook out? 
How can I help you support you 

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in your career? 
There will be other 

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opportunities within our 
company, you know, how do we set

242
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you up for success for the next 
time that you apply? 

243
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That could be like 1. 
So step one, take ownership. 

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Step 2 Potentially create more 
rapport with the person. 

245
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But let's say you tried to 
create rapport with the person 

246
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and that didn't work. 
The person is just bitter. 

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Then you get to decide as a 
manager what you take on. 

248
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Is that person still a good fit 
for your team? 

249
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Is their expertise still 
essential? 

250
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,120
Are they performing to the level
that they need to perform? 

251
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Sometimes it becomes a 
performance issue where they 

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they have this. 
I worked in hospitality, so our 

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attitudes are really important. 
We got measured on stuff like 

254
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that too. 
Like not in every profession, it

255
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,320
does that matter? 
I think it should, but not in 

256
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,080
every company or profession does
it? 

257
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,960
So is it a performance issue 
where it's like, hey, do you 

258
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,280
want to be part of the team? 
Do you want to be part of the 

259
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,920
team, act like part of the team,
right. 

260
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,840
It could be a very direct 
conversation about that. 

261
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,680
My #1 answer whenever I get 
asked HR questions is it 

262
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,720
depends, which is not anybody's 
favorite, but it truly does 

263
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,360
depend. 
Have you started, have you 

264
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,040
started with trying to create 
rapport? 

265
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,120
Did you give them the ability to
sort of succeed in whatever they

266
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,040
were left with as a result of 
not getting that job? 

267
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,800
So did you try that first? 
And it's kind of like carrots 

268
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,960
and sticks. 
Did we try the carrot? 

269
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,600
And then if the carrot didn't 
work, do we need to use a stick?

270
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,840
A stick should, in my opinion, 
always be like the last resort. 

271
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It's not what creates a poor, 
it's not what creates a great 

272
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place to work. 
It's not what creates the best 

273
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,120
atmosphere. 
But sometimes you do need to use

274
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,560
them. 
What do you think about that, 

275
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,560
Nicole? 
And what you see like, sorry 

276
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,840
Kim, and what you see. 
I keep seeing your your whole. 

277
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I know it happens all the time. 
It's totally cool. 

278
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,720
Yeah. 
No, I like, I think that that's 

279
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,760
spot on. 
Like that really tracks with how

280
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,520
I think about things too. 
And especially the part around, 

281
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,960
you know, humans are variable. 
And sometimes what I see is 

282
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people who are new managers will
either tend to manage the way 

283
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,000
that they wish that they were 
managed, which doesn't work for 

284
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,520
every person, right? 
Sometimes it's that mistaken 

285
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,320
empathy where you imagine the 
way that you want to be managed 

286
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,640
is what everybody wants. 
So I see that as a blind spot 

287
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:02,960
sometimes. 
And then there's the question 

288
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,160
of, oh, like, why did this 
person not respond in the way 

289
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,600
that I expected them to when I 
spoke to them or addressed them 

290
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,680
in this way? 
Right. 

291
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,360
Like, why did they not, you 
know, feel appreciative? 

292
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,680
Or why did it not change things 
in a positive way? 

293
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,160
And then the other thing I often
see is people will manage in the

294
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,880
exact opposite of the worst 
experience they ever had. 

295
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,240
So they'll think about, oh, I 
had this one manager and they 

296
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,280
were really, you know, terrible 
in this way. 

297
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,360
So I'll just do the exact 
opposite, right, Which also 

298
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,960
cannot work for the exact same 
reasons, right. 

299
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,760
Because it's also not coming 
kind of from this strategic 

300
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,720
perspective and realizing, you 
know, humans vary. 

301
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,560
And so we want to have that 
mindset of, OK, let me let me 

302
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,600
try this for this reason and 
then see what happens. 

303
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,720
And it doesn't mean that I'm a 
bad manager if I don't figure it

304
00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,800
out on the first go. 
Or the 2nd or the 3rd or the? 

305
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,280
4th set. 
That's just like it's being a 

306
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,119
manager. 
Sounds in some ways simple, but 

307
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,480
in some ways there's so much 
nuance involved in what you're 

308
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,240
doing every day. 
Because you're managing humans, 

309
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,160
you're managing projects, you're
managing budget, like you're 

310
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,720
managing things that, like me, 
knowing how to manage a human 

311
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,599
has nothing to do with knowing 
how to manage a budget. 

312
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,680
And so you have all these 
different skill sets that you 

313
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,640
have to like, start doing 
sometimes for the very first 

314
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,880
time just because you're a 
subject matter expert. 

315
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,360
So they're like, yes, you take 
charge of this and then you have

316
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,960
to figure it all out and you get
to decide what you prioritize 

317
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,400
and how you prioritize those 
things. 

318
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,200
And one thing I wanted to say 
about building rapport with your

319
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,920
team is my very first coach. 
Her name is Christine Kane. 

320
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,440
She used to say that everybody 
has a radio station internal 

321
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:53,400
playing 24/7 in their brain, and
it's WI I FM WIIFM what's in it 

322
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,800
for me. 
So when you're thinking about 

323
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,920
how best do I manage someone, 
instead of thinking what your 

324
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,160
old manager did or what they 
didn't do or what your 

325
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:07,080
experience was, we want to tune 
you in to Wii FM. 

326
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,720
What's like for me? 
For each one of your direct 

327
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,760
reports, think about what 
matters to them. 

328
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,400
So one of them might want to 
raise in a bonus, the other one 

329
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,200
might want more time off. 
The other one might not care 

330
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,360
about either of those things and
wants to just work on creative 

331
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,600
projects. 
So if you're giving them all the

332
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:26,400
bonus or all time off, that's 
often not helpful. 

333
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,880
What's more helpful is to tune 
into each one of them. 

334
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:33,400
I love that and two thoughts 
that happened in my brain just 

335
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,200
now. 
One is if you're new to 

336
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,640
listening to my podcast, go 
Scroll down to the bottom of the

337
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,480
episode list. 
I did it really early episode on

338
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,480
how people are selfish and this 
is not a bad thing. 

339
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,920
It's just that we're always 
oriented towards ourselves. 

340
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,920
And so I love that, like their 
visualization of everyone has 

341
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,800
that radio station makes so much
sense. 

342
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,800
People want to know like how 
does this affect me? 

343
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,440
What about me, right. 
And they have different 

344
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,080
priorities and different 
interests. 

345
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,880
And what also comes to mind is, 
this is so good to remember, 

346
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,360
because every manager also has a
manager. 

347
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,560
Unless you're at the very, very 
top, which is a different, a 

348
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,000
different set of problems. 
But you also might not realize 

349
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:19,720
that your manager has not paused
to ask you what is it that is 

350
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,880
most meaningful to you and you 
know to to use the language you 

351
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,920
used a moment ago. 
Own the relationship and you can

352
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,640
initiate that conversation. 
You can say, hey, here are what 

353
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,640
my priorities are, here's what 
I'd like to focus on, and 

354
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,800
perhaps partner more with your 
manager in a way that maybe you 

355
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:41,800
that you haven't thought is 
possible. 

356
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,440
Yeah, asking for what you need 
at every level. 

357
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,600
Like asking your direct reports 
and asking whoever you report 

358
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,960
to. 
We forget to do that sometimes, 

359
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,160
and that just makes your job 
easier. 

360
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,760
It makes your manager's job 
easier. 

361
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,880
When you ask your manager for 
support for something that you'd

362
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,640
be stuck in, you're avoiding a 
problem they will have to solve 

363
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,640
later if you don't address it at
the beginning. 

364
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,400
Yeah, and I love it too. 
I think sometimes we assume 

365
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,680
we're supposed to know, right? 
Like if they promoted me, it 

366
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,200
must be because I'm supposed to 
know how to do this, and that's 

367
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,400
not actually how it works. 
It's OK to not know, and it's 

368
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,280
better to ask questions and to, 
you know, like build those 

369
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,920
relationships sooner rather than
later. 

370
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,480
And even as you move through 
your career, whether you're in a

371
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,040
managerial or leadership 
position, whether you're in the 

372
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,200
same company or you move to a 
similar company that doesn't do 

373
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,480
the exact same thing, you're 
always learning about that 

374
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,760
specific situation and that 
specific thing and the idea to 

375
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,200
lead with curiosity or to ask 
yourself, what don't I know, 

376
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,520
what do I need to know in order 
to finish the project or to do 

377
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,080
the thing? 
It's so incredibly useful and 

378
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,920
honestly, it makes your job more
fun. 

379
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,960
So I worked in the cruise 
industry for many years, and I 

380
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,920
was a recruiter, as I mentioned,
and I would recruit for 

381
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,960
departments that I like. 
It was so funny. 

382
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,880
I used to recruit for the 
casino, and I had never stepped 

383
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,680
foot in a casino. 
So what I needed to know was 

384
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,400
everything I say, how does this 
work? 

385
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,360
So what happened was I would go 
to my department heads, the 

386
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,480
people hiring managers I was 
hiring for, and I'd say tell me 

387
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,600
everything, who's your ideal 
person for this? 

388
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,760
What should I look for? 
And that not knowing we see it 

389
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,720
as a drawback because we just 
got promoted. 

390
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,440
But it actually can help you 
build so much rapport with 

391
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,680
whoever your internal clients 
are, with whoever you're working

392
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,880
with on projects, because Can 
you imagine, so everyone 

393
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,800
listening right now, Can you 
imagine if someone came up to 

394
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,000
you and said, how can I help you
do your job and tell me 

395
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,400
everything you really care 
about? 

396
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,680
You would just be like, let me 
tell you, have a seat, right? 

397
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,400
It's so refreshing. 
How many people do that? 

398
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,120
Very few people. 
But what would happen is I had 

399
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,240
so much report about hiring 
partners, the managers that made

400
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,560
those decisions that then when 
something would go wrong, when 

401
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,800
we'd make a mistake, when we had
something happen, they sort of 

402
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,840
just saw my goodwill, my 
intention to help them and to do

403
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,840
the right thing over months and 
over years that when something 

404
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,840
would go wrong they'd be like, 
yeah, it's a mistake. 

405
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,120
They happened it it, it was like
a non thing to brave my other 

406
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,360
colleagues that wouldn't 
establish rapport with people 

407
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,160
that would pretend like they 
knew everything, something would

408
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,640
go wrong. 
And there was no rapport. 

409
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,160
So I'd be like, yeah, that was a
big mistake. 

410
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,360
What are you going to do to fix 
it? 

411
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,360
Right. 
So different. 

412
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,520
Yeah. 
And I think it's it is often 

413
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,200
sometimes those things that can 
be overlooked that and that that

414
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,240
subtlety of being intentional 
around OK, now that I'm in a new

415
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,160
position, whether you're in a 
new company, a new industry or 

416
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,160
in the same organization but at 
a different in a different 

417
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,760
position. 
The the perspective of oh I'm 

418
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:51,000
going to need to establish or 
even like re establish some 

419
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,400
relationships here like being 
intentional about that. 

420
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,400
I love what you said about 
establishing rapport and some 

421
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,760
specific ways to do that. 
Like have conversations, be 

422
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,640
curious, ask like how can I help
your job be better? 

423
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,440
All of those seem so doable and 
I think it sometimes overlooked.

424
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,120
Yeah, absolutely. 
And here's something that I'm 

425
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,160
just going to say because it 
came to mind, is people have 

426
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,880
different personalities, right? 
Just like imagine high school, 

427
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,440
right? 
There's all of those different 

428
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,320
personalities, and now 
everybody's 40 or or whatever, 

429
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:30,000
but never take at face value 
what other people tell you about

430
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,320
superiors or about employees or 
about who you're working with. 

431
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,480
I had a lot of people tell me so
and so is difficult to work with

432
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,360
and so and so is impossible and 
so and so is this. 

433
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,080
And I made myself a rule to 
like, listen to that and then to

434
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,480
create my own experience with 
that person from that place of 

435
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,320
ownership, right. 
So I would have meetings with 

436
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,400
people where everybody in the 
lunchroom would be saying oh 

437
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,280
they're so terrible and this and
that. 

438
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,440
And I would say that's just 
never been my experience. 

439
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,120
I I I understand that that 
happened. 

440
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,120
Like I'm not negating that that 
happened or whatever they were 

441
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,280
complaining about. 
I'm like I just have never had 

442
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,200
that experience. 
And later when I left those 

443
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,600
situations I was like, why was 
my experience so different? 

444
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,800
It's because I did not make a 
pre judgement based on what 

445
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,600
everybody told me, like the 
negative marketing that that 

446
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,440
person had. 
I was just like showing up to do

447
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,280
the work we had to do so that we
both got what we needed done. 

448
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,920
So like nobody had to suffer in 
the process right? 

449
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,440
And just that clean slate. 
They could have been terrible to

450
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,440
other people, but they just 
weren't to me. 

451
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,800
And it's not because I'm some 
secret Unicorn person. 

452
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,000
It was because of the lens that 
I would use when I'd be in 

453
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,920
meetings with them. 
That also sounds like a really 

454
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,200
like effective or useful way of 
dealing with gossip if you hear 

455
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,680
it right or if someone comes to 
you. 

456
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,680
Sometimes we don't mean to hear 
it, but we overhear it. 

457
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760
And the question of like, oh 
like what do I do if I hear 

458
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,480
people gossiping? 
You always get to decide, right?

459
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,240
So I mean, I was totally 
imperfect at this. 

460
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,240
I'm sure that I gossiped for 
sure. 

461
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,520
However, has I learned more 
about myself as I got more into 

462
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,440
personal development and just 
really became a more intentional

463
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,160
human? 
Especially towards the tail end 

464
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,640
of my career, people wouldn't 
even come to me because they 

465
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,120
just knew I wasn't like I wasn't
going to bite, right? 

466
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,280
And so they would have those 
conversations, but they wouldn't

467
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,120
invite me to them, and I was 
fine with that. 

468
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:36,000
And then sometimes when they 
would invite me to them, I would

469
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,320
say things like, I understand 
that I just haven't experienced 

470
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,520
that with this person. 
I just, I don't know what to 

471
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,800
tell you. 
That's not what happened with 

472
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,720
me. 
And so I think it's like you get

473
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,400
to decide. 
It's interesting how we would 

474
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,240
frame gossip because also 
sometimes I'm a big fan for 

475
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,600
myself and for anyone listening 
to us of old fashioned 

476
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,080
management by walking around. 
Now a lot of us work virtually. 

477
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,440
So management by walking around 
is having a zoom chat with 

478
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,480
someone, is having one on ones 
is having updates. 

479
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,520
It's asking hey, how you doing, 
what's going on. 

480
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,680
Those really open-ended 
questions which sometimes could 

481
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,560
sound like gossip, maybe will 
also reveal so and so is 

482
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,200
struggling with the project so 
and so broke up with, you know 

483
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,480
their girlfriend of 20 years. 
Like when you just say hey, 

484
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,440
what's going on, how what's 
happening. 

485
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,600
So many people would just tell 
me all these things, and then 

486
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,520
that would help me help them or 
support them or change a 

487
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,720
deadline or advocate for them in
some way or stuff like that. 

488
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,040
So I think that there's a gossip
that you feel terrible, that you

489
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,440
need a shower when you get home,
and then there's like being 

490
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,720
interested in humans and being 
interested in what they're 

491
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,600
struggling with. 
And if five people tell you 

492
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,760
there's a problem with a 
specific person, do we need to 

493
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800
do something about that problem?
I love that. 

494
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,680
It's It's also that it depends. 
I'm thinking specifically so 

495
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,920
many years ago when I first was 
promoted to a manager and I was 

496
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,240
managing a team of people I had 
been peers with. 

497
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,040
So I had to navigate that 
relationship change. 

498
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,560
But it was also at a time when 
the company was going through 

499
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,840
some organizational changes and 
kind of the like the the quote 

500
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,280
UN quote gossip on the floor was
around are we going to have 

501
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,240
layoffs in the next quarter or 
not. 

502
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560
And so that was definitely the 
kind of thing where of course it

503
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,160
was, you know, distracting and 
everyone had a different opinion

504
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,640
and some people were really 
feisty about it and had a really

505
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,560
like big emotions around it. 
But I could also really 

506
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,400
understand where it was coming 
from. 

507
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,440
It's like, of course they're 
observing, you know, we're doing

508
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,080
this thing in this part of the 
company and this thing in that 

509
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,680
part of the company. 
And again, like, how does this 

510
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,960
affect me? 
Like everyone's radio station is

511
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,640
tuned because they're wondering 
like, this could be a really big

512
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,120
deal for me and for me as the 
manager at the time. 

513
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:03,720
The other hard thing was that I 
did have some information about 

514
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,840
what was going to happen in the 
future and I was like bound to 

515
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,160
silence, right? 
Like I was not at liberty to say

516
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,880
anything about it. 
And for me, one of the, you 

517
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,920
know, when I look back on on 
that version of me, I feel so 

518
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,760
proud of her because I feel like
I didn't have any guidance and I

519
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,000
had to decide what am I going to
do with what I'm observing. 

520
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,520
And So what I ended up doing was
we had this big team meeting and

521
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,840
I acknowledge, like I know 
there's probably a lot of 

522
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,520
concern about what's going to 
happen in this next quarter, you

523
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,080
know, and so first just 
acknowledging, right, like of 

524
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,200
course we're going to have 
different emotions, different 

525
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,080
opinions, We've got a lot of 
uncertainty. 

526
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:48,960
And then where I I kind of took 
it was I I asked them, you know,

527
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,920
I know you're really good at 
change because you've been in 

528
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,600
this company and you've been in 
this industry for so long and I 

529
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,440
know you've seen a lot of change
before. 

530
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,200
So for me, my mindset as the 
manager was, you know, with 

531
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:08,280
what's available to me, how can 
I help them to feel more calm 

532
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,440
and kind of connected to their 
own capacity and strength and a 

533
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,080
sense of, like, connection to 
each other so that the 

534
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,920
uncertainty and the unknown 
wasn't like the biggest thing in

535
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,000
the room, right. 
It's like, yes, that is there. 

536
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,080
And this is also here, right? 
Yeah. 

537
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,080
And it actually like, there was 
this really funny moment where I

538
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,680
asked people to partner, like, 
tell everyone, like, tell your 

539
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,840
partner what was this company 
like when you first started 

540
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,560
working here? 
And then we came and shouted out

541
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,360
like, what's changed? 
And some of the people had been 

542
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,720
there for over 20 years, like, 
they were there before e-mail. 

543
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,600
They're like, remember before 
e-mail, you know, do you 

544
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,360
remember when you could smoke in
the office? 

545
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,080
And so it also just like kind of
put this, this bigger 

546
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,200
perspective on what was 
happening in this moment. 

547
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,040
So good. 
I love that a bigger perspective

548
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,000
is just always a good idea. 
Yeah, absolutely right. 

549
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,440
And sometimes that is the role 
of the manager. 

550
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,800
The leader is that you can 
sometimes have that bigger 

551
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,360
perspective and help to guide 
your team in where their 

552
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,760
attention is going, right? 
Whether it's around like, here's

553
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,280
our priority, we're going to 
focus on this and not that, Or 

554
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,080
whether it's helping make sense 
of OK, like these are the things

555
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,600
that are changing and here's 
what this means for you or 

556
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,240
here's what this means for us as
a team. 

557
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,800
I'm curious, you mentioned 
briefly about performance 

558
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,640
improvement plans and Pips and 
I. 

559
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,480
My experience has been that 
something that people often feel

560
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,000
very reluctant about and very 
awkward about. 

561
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,080
And I'm curious if there's 
anything in your perspective or 

562
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,400
your experience that people 
would need to know. 

563
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,680
Like, I didn't even know about 
them. 

564
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,920
I didn't know that they existed.
I didn't know they were a thing.

565
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,160
So my guess is most people don't
hear about them until things 

566
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,640
have escalated to a point where 
it's now time to formalize some 

567
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:04,640
kind of process. 
Yeah. 

568
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,240
So my experience with them is 
mixed. 

569
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,680
Usually by the time that you're 
doing that, you're often just 

570
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,960
documenting what's going wrong. 
So if you have to terminate 

571
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,040
someone, you're like we put it 
in writing. 

572
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,680
We said everything. 
My kind of one of my 

573
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,960
philosophies is like nothing 
should ever be a surprise. 

574
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,680
So if you're a new manager and 
your team is surprised by 

575
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200
something that you think, that 
means you're under 

576
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,960
communicating. 
Like if something is not 

577
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,400
working, if they need to fix 
something, change something, 

578
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,120
whatever, it should just not be 
a surprise look. 

579
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,280
It's like, it's like, I don't 
know, getting your cancer 

580
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,000
checked or something like like 
we're women, we have breast, you

581
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,760
know, cancer checks every year. 
It's like the earlier you catch 

582
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,400
something, the more likely it's 
going to be less of a problem. 

583
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,160
And that's just true on like 
every level. 

584
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,360
But if you get to the point 
where you do need to do a 

585
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,440
performance improvement plan, 
that's an opportunity to partner

586
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,320
with HR to ask like, what are 
the most effective ones, What 

587
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,200
have you seen before? 
Like, really to if they're open 

588
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,160
and available because you 
already assessed that before, 

589
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,280
right? 
To really see how they can guide

590
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,440
you to help you do something 
that's really effective and 

591
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,760
really useful. 
And that's what I would say just

592
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,000
about them, is to make them 
concrete, to have things that 

593
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,960
you check off a list. 
You can tell whether it happened

594
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,360
or it didn't. 
The more vague it is, the more 

595
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,160
vague your results are going to 
be. 

596
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,600
The more precise and concrete it
is, the more precise and 

597
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,520
concrete you're evaluating 
things that are measurable. 

598
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,280
Sometimes we work on projects 
and things that are a little bit

599
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,040
nebulous and we have to decide 
like what does it mean? 

600
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,160
Like what is measurable here, 
And that's something to run by a

601
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,880
colleague or to run by someone 
else or your own manager. 

602
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,280
So that would be my initial 
thoughts about it. 

603
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,040
I love it. 
Nothing should be a surprise. 

604
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Yeah, that's something I talk 
about too around performance 

605
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,000
reviews. 
Nobody wants to be surprised or 

606
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,880
like ambushed on their 
performance review. 

607
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,200
It's like if this was an issue, 
you should have told me six 

608
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,080
months ago so I could have 
addressed it and that sense too.

609
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,160
So yes. 
So in order to be having those 

610
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,000
conversations sooner, some of 
them will be uncomfortable and 

611
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,040
that is OK We can learn how to 
have uncomfortable conversations

612
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,200
and how to how to get better at 
them. 

613
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,080
And how to feel and how to feel 
more comfortable in them, Right.

614
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,000
So, So I've been in different 
situations where I've either had

615
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,320
someone helping me or like now I
have a team in my own coaching 

616
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,520
company and I had to give 
feedback all the time. 

617
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,680
And what I would invite anyone 
who's in your manager to do is 

618
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,160
to sit back and decide like, 
what are the values that you 

619
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,080
want to lead with when you're 
giving feedback. 

620
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
So I'm a big fan of 
collaboration. 

621
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,920
That's one of my values of 
clarity, like precise, like this

622
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,640
happened on Tuesday and this is 
happening on Monday or whatever.

623
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,720
The more precise the better. 
And it's like what is the kind 

624
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,880
of feedback that I think will 
make a difference. 

625
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:02,040
It's often ignoring what 
happened today in service of how

626
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,520
it's going to be handled in the 
future. 

627
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,520
So it's like I'm not going to 
get mad at you about today. 

628
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,040
Today is just alerting us that 
if we keep doing this, we're not

629
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,400
going to get what we want 
tomorrow and the next day and 

630
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,159
the next day. 
So it's like, listen, mistakes 

631
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,159
happen this. 
I noticed this today. 

632
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,320
Moving forward, I'm thinking 
this and this. 

633
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,840
Oftentimes when we become 
managers, we're also removed 

634
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,800
from the front lines by biggest 
pet peeve breaking. 

635
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,760
In a huge company where people 
were making decisions, you know,

636
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,880
let's say the VP makes a 
decision that then goes down to 

637
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,320
the director, to the manager and
then to the specialist doing the

638
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,040
job. 
And the VP has no idea what it 

639
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,199
takes on a day-to-day basis for 
that instruction to be executed.

640
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,000
That was my biggest Pepe. 
He was like, why don't they ask 

641
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,280
us? 
We know what it takes to do, 

642
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,400
right? 
So taking that into 

643
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,560
consideration when you're giving
feedback is asking the person, I

644
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,280
think we should do this, Can 
this be done by the end of the 

645
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,120
month? 
What would it take to do it? 

646
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Can you walk me through it? 
You understanding you don't have

647
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,480
to understand every single 
little detail, but you just 

648
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,680
understanding the basics of what
it takes. 

649
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,840
First of all your team will love
you forever and then you'll also

650
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,560
be able to give better 
instructions and better 

651
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160
leadership and better guidance 
when other things like that come

652
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,160
up. 
You already know oh it takes 

653
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,880
three weeks to get this from 
purchasing. 

654
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,240
So you know, if we want that by 
this time we got to put in the 

655
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,520
order now, but how would you 
even know that? 

656
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,680
Because you asked the person on 
the front lines, How does it 

657
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,680
work for you? 
What's doable for you when you 

658
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,560
were giving feedback? 
About something, I love it. 

659
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,640
So again, like building those 
relationships, finding out how 

660
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:40,040
things work, having those clear 
and specific conversations, 

661
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,200
being very values based, very 
values lead. 

662
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,000
And this also makes me want to 
ask you about trust building. 

663
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,560
My sense is that everything that
you're talking about is also a 

664
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,200
way of building trust. 
But what else do you know that 

665
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,920
could help new managers or 
actually honestly, like any 

666
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,640
human who works with a human 
about how we foster or, you 

667
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,600
know, create trust with the 
people we work with? 

668
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,680
That's such an interesting 
question because sometimes there

669
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,240
will be people who will be 
resistant to trust no matter 

670
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:13,920
what you do, and I just want to 
call that out. 

671
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,280
There will be people who've been
burned by previous bosses or 

672
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,280
previous colleagues where 
they're just their like Shields 

673
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,440
are up to think about like a 
sci-fi way to think about it is 

674
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,520
like they are just not available
to trust and you have to give 

675
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,560
yourself a break about that as a
new manager to be like, oh this 

676
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,160
person, this is how they are and
this is the level of rapport I 

677
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,960
can have with them, right. 
So that's one part of it. 

678
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,560
I think that building trust, but
if we think about something like

679
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,760
psychological safety on a team 
and Google has done such great 

680
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,920
work and there's such that like 
we actually have some data and 

681
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,760
some evidence based kind of 
things to pull from when we're 

682
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,560
telling people about this. 
I think that transparency, hey 

683
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,720
we're making this change. 
This is why we're making it. 

684
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,120
This is what's happening. 
This is what's going on. 

685
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,360
This is why this is our goal. 
Anything around transparency 

686
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,480
build helps to build. 
It doesn't. 

687
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,880
It's not the only thing that 
builds trust, but it's a big 

688
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,440
help in building trust. 
And then another thing that I 

689
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,280
think that's important when 
you're building trust is don't 

690
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,240
over promise. 
Don't say, oh, I'm going to get 

691
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,200
you a promotion next year or I'm
going to whatever. 

692
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,520
But you know, we as managers 
think that person deserves A 

693
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,040
promotion. 
But if it's not in your hands to

694
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,200
sign the check or to put it into
practice, I've seen people get 

695
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,240
really disappointed because 
managers have made promises that

696
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,520
they didn't have the control 
over executing. 

697
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,920
And I would say that's a place 
to just be a little bit careful 

698
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,680
because maybe you had a lot of 
trust and then it imploded in 

699
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,800
just one shot. 
And so that over promising. 

700
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,000
You want to just be really 
careful. 

701
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,320
What do I actually have control 
over that I can do for my team? 

702
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,720
Again, taking ownership of like 
what can I do? 

703
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,280
And then sometimes you go to HR 
and you say what do I have 

704
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:57,640
control over? 
Can I approve this? 

705
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,920
How many approvals does it need 
to for this to pass, that kind 

706
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,120
of thing. 
There's many other things we can

707
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,240
do to build trust. 
We can end meetings on time, 

708
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,120
right? 
We can do stuff like not call 

709
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,920
meetings. 
We don't need to call and only 

710
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,200
do stuff that needs to be done. 
That's essential for the project

711
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,720
that builds trust and that 
you're not wasting my time, 

712
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,680
you're honoring my expertise, 
asking for peoples who are 

713
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,240
subject matter experts. 
We're thinking of doing this. 

714
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,440
Do you think about that can 
build so much trust or erode so 

715
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,600
much trust when we don't ask 
those questions? 

716
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,640
What do you think? 
I love all of that, and it makes

717
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,520
me also want to loop back to 
something you said at the very 

718
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,640
beginning of our conversation 
around when you talk with HR. 

719
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,640
Find out what the training 
budget is for yourself and for 

720
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,080
your people. 
Because sometimes as a manager, 

721
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,600
you don't have the authority to 
grant someone a promotion or a 

722
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,440
raise or even a bonus. 
But you might have it within 

723
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,080
your means to approve of them, 
to go to a training, to work 

724
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,280
with a coach, to do a program, 
to do something that will still 

725
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,600
help them in their career and to
grow. 

726
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,280
And so I think sometimes the 
professional development budget 

727
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,160
is something that also gets 
overlooked, but it's a really 

728
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,440
valuable point of leverage, 
right? 

729
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:18,080
Because also as a manager you 
might have the discretion to 

730
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,720
like like I have, I've seen this
happen so many times like a a 

731
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:24,960
manager will say, well, I was 
able to find the budget for 

732
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,000
this, right. 
Like sometimes it's like oh, and

733
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,440
especially now end of the year, 
it's like oh we had all this 

734
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,000
extra money because we we 
thought this project would 

735
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,120
require this and it didn't. 
But now we have this funds that 

736
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,840
we can use for professional 
development or something else 

737
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,000
that will help, you know, that 
will help the person. 

738
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,440
So yeah. 
I love it. 

739
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,520
Yeah. 
OK, I thought of something you 

740
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,240
haven't asked me yet that I want
to say please. 

741
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,400
So one of my different trainings
that I've given over the years 

742
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,120
is on e-mail, the appropriate 
use of e-mail. 

743
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:07,000
I want to know, OK. 
So first of all, as a new 

744
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,720
manager, think about you know, 
you may chit, chat, an e-mail or

745
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,840
say things or whatever that just
amongst the team, right? 

746
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,040
It's fine. 
But as a new manager, here's the

747
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,240
visual that I want to give you 
is if you wouldn't want to see 

748
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:27,600
that e-mail in New York Times 
Square blown up to 1000 times 

749
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:32,720
its size, then don't send it. 
So any e-mail that you send 

750
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:35,640
could be forwarded to your boss,
could be forwarded to your 

751
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,840
employee, could be forwarded to 
HR. 

752
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,520
And so as a new manager, it's 
like you have a heightened level

753
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,880
of responsibility for your, like
public communication. 

754
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,960
And so it's kind of like you're 
your own PR, you're your own 

755
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,720
advocate for what your 
communication is. 

756
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,360
And we can be in where, you 
know, we work with the whole the

757
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,160
same team maybe for five years 
or something. 

758
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,200
We're very chummy or very, you 
know, we just write whatever to 

759
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,760
each other. 
And when you're a manager, it's 

760
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,840
like there's a heightened level 
of responsibility of you setting

761
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,760
the example and some of the 
things you might say like off 

762
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,920
hand or something like that, you
may not want to say. 

763
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,080
Furthermore, before I worked in 
the cruise industry, I worked in

764
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,360
a law firm for almost 10 years 
and think about depending on the

765
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,240
industry that you're in, could 
you be sued, Could your emails 

766
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:29,400
be pulled for evidence purposes 
about anything? 

767
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,720
What do you want to have in that
e-mail? 

768
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,440
What do you not want to have in 
that e-mail? 

769
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,960
In HR situation, sometimes 
people would want to ask me 

770
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,040
about something with an employee
or something like that and my 

771
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,440
reply would be call me, that's 
it. 

772
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,920
My reply would be call me 
because I didn't want to put in 

773
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,080
an e-mail while we had this 
issue and that issue and the 

774
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,840
other issue, right. 
So who knows who could forward 

775
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,800
that, who knows who to talk 
about it. 

776
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,840
They'd be like, listen, you 
asked me about this thing, 

777
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,760
here's what I wouldn't put on an
e-mail, but you probably want to

778
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,800
know whatever, whatever, 
whatever The thing is like it 

779
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,080
can be that simple. 
But just being intentional about

780
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,240
your e-mail is very important. 
And then coming back to clarity,

781
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,840
just for the the emails of 
getting the work done emails, 

782
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,520
it's like is there 1 clear 
message, 1 clear action item 

783
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,640
When you finish reading that 
e-mail, do you know everybody's 

784
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,080
a media next step? 
If you don't it's unclear it's 

785
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,680
pointless to send it. 
Those are just some thoughts on 

786
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,560
e-mail that will make 
everybody's life easier. 

787
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:32,080
What are your thoughts, Kim? 
I think 100%, especially that 

788
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,920
awareness of of how your conduct
can travel and what it can mean 

789
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,600
and how it can be received by 
right. 

790
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,800
I mean, I feel like that's 
something we see a lot is oh you

791
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,400
know, screenshots of emails and 
text messages or videos of the 

792
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,520
team meeting that you know, out 
of context can really have 

793
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:58,040
significant repercussions. 
So being mindful of that and I 

794
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,000
think that's part of actually 
the journey of how do you 

795
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:07,040
develop your own authentic 
leadership style and do it being

796
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,240
mindful of like we don't operate
in a vacuum. 

797
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,840
We're very interconnected in the
ecosystem and in the company. 

798
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,600
So there is this other level of 
like emotional labor that you're

799
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,600
going to do as a manager? 
Yeah, that you didn't have 

800
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:22,640
before. 
You don't have to worry about 

801
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,600
others feelings or like you were
just doing your thing right. 

802
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,440
Whatever it is that you were 
doing and now it's it's really, 

803
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,360
I don't know, like being a movie
director, you have to take into 

804
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,000
consideration all of these other
factors that you didn't have to 

805
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,360
take into consideration before, 
right? 

806
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:38,800
And it's like how is it going to
land? 

807
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Who's going to get it? 
What will their impression of it

808
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,360
be? 
Yeah. 

809
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,520
And I think that also just 
normalizes it, right? 

810
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,040
So if it's like you got the 
promotion or you got the new 

811
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,000
job, amazing. 
And then you can feel kind of 

812
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,800
overwhelmed or lost, Like, wait,
why does this feel so different?

813
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,440
And it's for all of the things 
that you've shared, Yeah, 

814
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:58,800
because it is different. 
Yeah. 

815
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,720
Right. 
And it would be nice, like if 

816
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,160
when you got promoted or you got
a new job, you got a little 

817
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,400
letter with a gold seal that 
said congratulations, here are 

818
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,640
the things that you should know 
about what's different now. 

819
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,360
Yeah. 
But I've never seen a company do

820
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,000
that. 
Have you? 

821
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,800
No, I might need to make make 
such a thing. 

822
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,360
I think that would be amazing. 
OK, we're giving. 

823
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,840
Kim, An assignment. 
I know Kim gives her nice 

824
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,960
coaching homework and stuff. 
It's like, do this or whatever. 

825
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,240
Thank you, Kim. 
We want to hear it. 

826
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,960
We want to know. 
Yeah, you know, because it's. 

827
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,000
I think it feels better. 
Especially when you're like used

828
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,280
to being an overachiever and 
you're really good at 

829
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,720
accomplishing things, it can be 
easy to suddenly feel like the 

830
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,680
ground has shifted in a way that
is not obvious, you know? 

831
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:50,280
So, yeah, well, is there 
anything else that I haven't 

832
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:56,960
asked you that you would like to
share or that I don't know 

833
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,200
anything else I? 
Think if you're a new manager 

834
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,320
and you're listening to this or 
you're like working on getting 

835
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,760
promoted and like, we don't want
to talk you out of becoming a 

836
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,960
manager, It could be amazing, 
right? 

837
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,960
Like we want you to know these 
are things for you to think 

838
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,480
about. 
Take into consideration they're 

839
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,440
all doable. 
They're all achievable. 

840
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:21,120
And I would say the way we 
change how business is done is 

841
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,920
by changing how business is 
done. 

842
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,040
So I do have one like last story
to tell everybody. 

843
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,120
So when I was a recruiter at 
that time, recruiters had a 

844
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,880
really bad rap. 
I don't know how it is now, I've

845
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,800
been haven't been doing that for
several years. 

846
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,520
But it was like recruiters would
lie and they would tell it was 

847
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,120
just like a profession that 
really was was not well 

848
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,400
regarded. 
And I decided that I was not 

849
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,160
going to be the stereotypical 
person who did that job. 

850
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,280
So I would come in and you know,
at the level at which I was at 

851
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,880
that time. 
And when I had a candidate, I 

852
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,400
would literally send an e-mail 
where the subject line was this 

853
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,600
the non update update. 
And I'd say, hey, person who's 

854
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,800
been waiting a week to hear 
back, I just want you to know I 

855
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,440
haven't met with the team yet. 
I'm still waiting to hear back. 

856
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,600
The minute I have any news, I 
will let you know. 

857
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,920
Little things like that created 
so much of A better experience 

858
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,600
for the candidate and so much of
A better, like, persona for the 

859
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,240
company. 
Because people felt like, oh, 

860
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,720
the company cares about me. 
I was the ambassador of the 

861
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,720
company, right? 
The company cares about me. 

862
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,240
They update me, they tell me. 
And I just decided that how I 

863
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:35,120
did things would be in 
accordance with with what I felt

864
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,040
was the highest of the company 
values and my personal values. 

865
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,040
So I would give realistic job 
previews. 

866
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,880
Sometimes I'd hire people that 
were coming into a difficult 

867
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,320
team where the previous manager 
was awful and just terrible and 

868
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,520
everybody was like afraid or 
stuff like that. 

869
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,840
And I'd say, hey, this company 
has amazing things and you're 

870
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,040
going to get to do this and you 
have the budget for that. 

871
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:00,280
And this person on your team is 
an expert in this thing and are 

872
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,720
all really tender right now. 
And they had this experience. 

873
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,320
And how will you handle that? 
And some of my colleagues were 

874
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,360
like, why do you go into that 
level of detail? 

875
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,800
I'm like, because they're going 
to get here on Tuesday and have 

876
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,200
to deal with it. 
So I want someone who wants to 

877
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,360
deal with it, who's ready to 
deal with it, knowing all the 

878
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,080
other great things that they get
in their job. 

879
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,800
And so whatever role you're in 
now and whatever role you are in

880
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,720
leadership, you can take that 
role and be the one little sort 

881
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:33,440
of Pebble in the ocean that's 
that does it different, that 

882
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,320
does it better. 
And that would be my invitation 

883
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,960
to everyone who's listening now.
Thank you so much. 

884
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,840
That is brilliant and I love 
everything about it and I'm 

885
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,600
really glad that you're able to 
take some time to talk today and

886
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,280
share all of that perspective 
and wisdom with us. 

887
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,800
My pleasure. 
Thank you for having me. 

888
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,920
You're so welcome. 
Where can people find you if 

889
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,400
they want to know more about 
what you're doing and how to 

890
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,680
connect with you so? 
This is so much fun for me 

891
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:03,720
because it's like all my HR 
stuff. 

892
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,720
Actually, I'm talking about 
marriage and relationships. 

893
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,320
So you can find me at 
maggiereyes.com. 

894
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,040
I have a podcast. 
It's called the Marriage Life 

895
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,080
Coach Podcast. 
If you want to hear me talk 

896
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,480
about how to have, you know, 
amazing relationships, you can 

897
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,600
hear me talk there. 
And if you love Instagram, you 

898
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,920
can find me there at the Maggie 
Reyes. 

899
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,320
And can we also tell them that 
you have a book, Like a really 

900
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,240
amazing, good book? 
Thank you for reminding me. 

901
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,600
I wrote a book. 
Hi everyone. 

902
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,440
I'm also an author. 
So I wrote a book. 

903
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,680
It's called The Questions for 
Couples Journal. 

904
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,920
And it's 400 questions. 
So it's not a book you read. 

905
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,600
It's a book you do. 
It's 400 questions. 

906
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,320
And it has different categories.
Your goals, your dreams, sexy 

907
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,280
times, all kinds of stuff like 
that, Your values. 

908
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,360
And it's really designed to help
you get closer to your partner 

909
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,400
asking things that would never 
come up otherwise. 

910
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,960
I'm going to put links to all of
that in the show notes so it'll 

911
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,800
it'll make it even easier for my
people to find you. 

912
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,760
Because yeah, more of Maggie is 
always a good thing. 

913
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,240
Thank you. 
I love it And put in. 

914
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,080
I have another request for Kim 
put in. 

915
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,760
The show notes that episode 
about people being selfish. 

916
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,000
Yes, I will do that. 
OK, awesome. 

917
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,240
All right. 
Thank you so much, Maggie. 

918
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,720
Thank you. 
Bye. 

919
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,120
When you're more effective at 
work, you're happier in your 

920
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,360
life. 
And when you're happier in your 

921
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,400
life, you're more effective at 
work. 

922
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,600
I can help. 
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 

923
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,920
and sign up for a coaching 
consult. 

924
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,720
It can get better.