Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome.
I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well.
I have to say that this weekend has been so beautiful.
It has been sunny and warm. And I went for this nice, long
walk in the neighborhood and I saw all of these flowers
blooming and one of the things that made me think about is the
importance of recognizing the seasons that we are in in our
work. And our life.
And also pausing to ask yourself what is it that I need to grow
and to thrive? Because in the course of our
work, it can change over time. What you have and what you need.
Now might change that might look different because you're growing
your you know, your needs and interests are growing and
changing and also the organization that you're in
might So be changing and the other reason I was thinking
about this in terms of seasons in our work and what we need to
really Thrive and grow is because a couple of days ago and
went to an event, I ran into a friend of mine and her boyfriend
and I hadn't really gotten to meet him very much.
I'd met him very briefly but we had time to chat as we were at
this event and I was asking him about what he did and he said
all I do this and I was at This company for a while and then I
was at this company, but I recently joined this new company
and it's only been three weeks. But we're doing this and this,
and it's really pretty cool. And it was so wonderful, just to
see how lit up he was by what he was doing and where he was doing
it and what he was noticing in this new work environment and it
just made me think. Oh, right?
It's so nice. When we feel like we're in a
work environment That really allows us to grow and to thrive
like it really lights us up when we're in that kind of situation
and a couple of weeks ago, my boyfriend and I actually had
lunch with his one of his, former managers, it was years
ago that they work together. My boyfriend, still remembers
him so fondly as one of the best managers he ever had.
And it was this really lovely. Point of remembering and really
seeing the effect that our work has on us on the effect that our
managers have on us and how much of a difference.
It really makes not just in our professional lives but just as
humans, when we have a manager that we really trust in my
boyfriend's, Casey said yeah, like manager was so good at
being an umbrella for us and kind of blocking us from a lot.
The other stuff that was going on.
And in his manner, his former manager said.
Yeah, you don't even know the half of it.
It was it was rough. But you know, I do my best and
it was just this beautiful moment of highlighting like the
real value as people as humans, when we are able to have that
kind of relationship at work, I think it's not as common as we
realize. I think a lot of us have It's
with less-than-ideal manager situations or maybe my view is
skewed a little bit because of my own background.
I don't know. But I do know that when you have
that experience at work, it makes such a difference.
And I know that one of the reasons a lot of folks, listen
to this podcast and come to work with me is because you genuinely
care about doing a good job for your people and Also, for
yourself like you want to be good at being a manager.
Like it's a lot more fun to be good at it than to be bad at it.
I think that's true. Just in general.
Like if you have the choice, why not be good at something than
bad at it? And struggle at it?
And, you know, there are growing pains, of course, but we're here
to learn and grow. So, you know, that's what it's
all about. So today, you know, as I in,
kind of light of those experiences that I I had quite
recently, I really been thinking about these three things with
respect to the workplace and being a manager.
I'm thinking about mindset attitude and engagement and
engagement is a word that comes up a lot in the workplace.
And I looked up because I wanted to make sure I got the
definition, you know, really dialed in and this is the
definition that I found when I looked at.
Like, when we're talking about Employee Engagement, what does
that really mean? And here's what I saw, it says
Employee Engagement, improves work culture, reduces turnover
increases productivity builds better, work, and customer,
relationships and effect profit. High Employee Engagement also,
turns workers into your best Advocates.
So, in light of that, it's no wonder that so many Workplaces
can get very like obsessed with Employee Engagement.
They might do Employee Engagement surveys multiple
times a year. Like they're all these different
tools and ways to try to understand what is our Employee
Engagement. Like and if you've ever worked
in a place where you knew there was very low engagement.
Then you also know what that feels like it often feels like
there's very low Morale. People put in the bare minimum.
There's just a feeling of kind of, like, heaviness, or a
feeling of being a little bit, detached versus an environment,
where people are very engaged, and there's often more of a
sense of enthusiasm, and optimism more of a sense of,
hey, like, what needs to be done.
Let me get to it or, oh, I had this idea a lot more kind of
energy and initiative flow. Owing.
And in most workplaces, it's going to be a mix and depending
on the size of your organization, it can vary
dramatically from one team to the next.
So if you have a really big organization like thousands of
people, you can almost think of every team or every business
unit or every like Bureau can have its own microclimate.
So in one particular, Area of the organization there might be
really high engagement in another part of the
organization. It might be lower and it can
really depend based on, you know, leadership personalities
and functional roles. Sometimes when things are going
great on the sales, team things are not going great, you know?
Like on the engineering team or reverse, it really can just
depend but I wanted to talk about engagement because I know
it's something that's very top of mind in a a lot of work
places. And as I was thinking about, you
know, where does that really come from?
And what does that mean in terms of being a leader and a manager?
And how might you think about this in a way that helps you to
both feel more satisfied in the way that you're doing your job
and be more successful at it? Here's what I came up with that.
I wanted to share with you so we can think about engagement as a
combination of both the actions that people Are taking.
So the behaviors that they're doing the actions that they take
as well as the emotion or kind of the attitude with which they
take them. So if they're you know, showing
up for work but they're very reluctant and just maybe a
little passive-aggressive it's like they're doing the work
there. Their behaviors are doing the
work but the underlying energy and attitude is kind of pulling
back and is Sort of disengaged, right?
So that's the element of the emotion in the attitude and so
when we're looking at engagement and what are the ways that we
can affect that, like, where does that come from?
There are two pieces I want you to think about one is mindset
and mindset. You can also think of as the
thoughts behind the scenes, like the thoughts that people are
holding about themselves and the workplace and just what are the
thoughts? They have about this.
Then we have attitude that adds this emotional part attitude is
a lot about how you are feeling. If you've ever heard, you know,
kind of the quotes or the, I don't know what you call it,
like the idiom maybe to have an attitude of gratitude.
This idea that if we are feeling gratitude, it'll change the way
that we feel and then that will change the experience that we're
having of a moment or If you've ever, you know, if you were ever
the teenager that your parents said, you know what, you need
to, you need an attitude adjustment, you need to change
your attitude about this, right? It's because when we're in that
teenager angst, you know, rebellious we just, you know,
think we know everything, we might get a little bit of that
reflected back to us by our parents or by adults saying, you
know what, you need to check your attitude kid.
And so sometimes we encounter that to in the workplace just
this idea of what is that attitude that you're bringing
into the situation and as I'm talking to, it's so interesting
because I'm always thinking about you in a role of being a
manager. So you're looking to your team
but I'm also understanding you have a manager and you have
people that you work with. And so, as you listen to this,
you can think about how does this apply in all directions.
So for you to your team, for you, up to your manager, for you
in your own life and also in the way that you relate to your
peers and other folks who are kind of at the same leadership
level as you are. So that's attitude, it's this
emotional component and then when you have your thoughts,
your mindset, plus the emotion, and the attitude, then that
together will turn into engagement or Disengagement.
So let me give you a couple of examples and it really starts
with, you know, what are you seeing?
What are you observing? Let me break this down a little
bit. So for example, this is a
conversation I had with someone earlier in my career, but it is
always stayed with me because it really, well, I'll tell the
story and you can, you can see for yourself.
So I was talking with this person who had worked in a
company for many, many years, and And I was kind of new to the
organization. So I was just, you know, like
having a conversation about the workplace and all of the stuff
and one of the things that was happening was there was going to
be a reorg and there was a little concern that in the
course of the reorg, there might be some positions cut.
And I was talking with one of my colleagues about this, and he
said, oh yeah, you know, people who get promoted around here are
the the first to get cut when there's a reorg.
So that was his observation, that was what he had seen that.
People who get promoted are the first to get cut when there's a
reorg. So for him, what he thought
about it was, don't get promoted.
Because if you get promoted, your job becomes at risk, How
did he feel about that? What was his attitude about it?
It was a little cynical. The attitude was, why should I
try to go for a promotion? If it's just going to put me at
risk his attitude was hey, stay safe, just do your job, keep a
low profile. And so what did he do?
As a result was his engagement? Like it was pretty minimal like
he was good at what he did but his attitude was I'm here to do
my job and know, No more because there's no benefit and I don't
really want to stand out as being, you know, a top
performer. I just want to do my job and
then go home and to be really clear.
There's also nothing wrong with that.
Like it's totally cool to be like I'm just here to do my job
and I want to go home and like have a life.
But I want us to take a moment to look at it through the lens
of what is it that creates engagement or disengagement?
So again it's like what am I seeing?
What do I think about it? That's the mindset part.
How do I feel about it? That's the attitude and then
what what will I do? As a result of all of that and
that directs us to engagement whether it's high engagement or
low engagement. But another example for you, oh
and also before I give you that other example, so one of the
reasons why that story really struck me and why it stayed with
me all these years is because it had never occurred to me.
That that would be a thing that this perspective of getting
promoted is bad because it puts you at risk of losing your job.
When the leadership team decided to do a reorg, I had just I've
never encountered that before and so it really, you know, just
struck me and stayed with me all of this time for me in that
moment. I looked at it a little bit
differently for me. I looked at that same kind of
situation and I thought, well, I want to get promoted if it looks
like a role that I want, because that'll be good for me, no
matter what. For me, my goal was not to stay
at that one company as long as possible, my goal was to
continue to advance to To do new things to have new experiences.
And so, for me, it didn't turn on my cynicism, it just turned
on. I think my awareness of okay,
that's a really interesting perspective but I know what I'm
here for and so I'm going to engage because I I have some
optimism about what's possible for me here and I'm going to go
after that. It also though, made it really
helpful when I was then managing other people because it also
helped me realize not everyone has the same perspective and the
same desire around what they want from their work.
Not everybody wants to get promoted and to advance some
people really love what they do. They are good at it and they
just want to be good at it and that one place for as long as
possible they want stability they want no surprises.
They just want to be really good at what they do.
So then when I became a manager, Really helped me to have
conversations with my team because they all had different
things that really motivated them and that created engagement
or not and it helped me to be a better manager for them because
of this one experience that I had earlier in my career.
So another example I wanted to share with you and she was in an
organization that she loved but she also had been feeling pretty
stagnant. She was at this level for a
couple of years. Years and she was doing a lot of
you know, additional work to really prove herself to be ready
for that higher level. She realized after a couple of
years of you know being a top performer, she realized it's
actually really tough to get promoted here because it's a
very flat organization so there's nowhere to go.
It's like there were a limited number of higher level seats and
as long as people were not, Moving and there weren't new
positions being created at that level, there was nowhere for to
get promoted up into. And so one of the things we
talked about in that I coached her on was what did she want to
do about that? Did she want to find another job
someplace else? Like try to make it a lateral
promotion by going to another place?
Or did she want to stay at her current organization and if so
for how long and then what was her plan?
And so as we coach together, Either she said, you know, while
I really like my organization, I really like my team.
I just am really hoping that somebody above me leaves, so
that I can then step up into their seat.
So, her mindset was, I have to be strategic and I have to be
persistent because this will take some time.
That was her mindset. Have to be strategic and
persistent. This will take some time from
their, her attitude and her emotions.
And she felt pretty optimistic because she said, you know, I
like the company, I'm going to give it a fair shot.
I'm willing to stay here for, you know, so much time.
And I'm going to use this time to really prepare and position
myself to be so, ready for this role.
And as a result, she was actually very actively engaged
because she believed that she could do something about it.
And if not like, if it turns out that after all our And she still
was not seeing any opportunity for advancement.
She also knew like she also knew how long she was willing to stay
so she knew she wouldn't stay there forever.
If it felt like there was really no possibility but she also knew
she was giving it everything she could to set herself up.
And that if she decided to leave, she would have a really
great track record of accomplishments and things to
talk about that she did while she was at this one
organization. So her engagement ended up being
very high just because of her mindset and then her attitude
and I'm also happy to share that she did.
In fact, get promoted and interestingly enough, they also
had a reorg which then had some people leaving new positions
opening up and she ended up going for one of the new spots.
It's interesting. You know, as I'm recording this,
there have been quite a wave of layoffs in a few different.
Different Industries. I'd say like, in the last, maybe
eight months or so and layoffs can always be very challenging
because it's like we don't have control over them if they happen
to us and it can really challenge our feeling of being
in control and feeling like, if I do a good job, I will have the
job. Sometimes you do a great job and
the job goes away because there's a reduction in force,
but when there are changes that happen in your organization or
It's a reorg or layoffs, it also introduces uncertainty, but that
also means that can introduce opportunities and so having a
mindset and an attitude that will support you in the season
that you're in becomes really valuable.
Because that's something that you have a lot of effective
control over. And so, when you're then
thinking, too about your people, the people on your team.
If you're noticing some folks seem to be a little checked out,
a little disengaged, then the conversations you want to have
our around, what is their mindset?
What is their attitude, or how are they feeling?
And depending on your organization?
You might do very regular, surveys like engagement surveys
pulse surveys, there are different ways that
organizations get a sense of how people feel that can sometimes
give you some Insight about, you know.
What's going on? What's the vibe that you can
think about being curious in those two directions?
I think we often jump to that actions.
What do I do, right? Like, if I notice low
engagement, what do I do? If I'm feeling disengaged?
What do I do? So, we want to roll back a
little bit. And First, Direct our attention
to like, what are people seeing or what are you seeing?
What are you thinking about it? What is your mindset here and
then what is your feeling about it?
What is that attitude? You're having.
And these things can also change based on what's going on in our
personal lives. So it helps to have a holistic
perspective when you're thinking about this both towards
yourself. Like, are you feeling engaged?
Do you feel like you have what you need?
How's your attitude has your mindset.
And also, when you are in conversation or thinking about
your team or even your manager, in terms of managing up,
sometimes we forget that our managers are also people.
They might be dis engaged because of either what is
happening in their personal life or just what's happening in
their professional life. And so that's when learning how
to manage up and how to think about what are your options too.
To influence and work with this person, become really important
and really valuable. Also, as a side note, I need to
do a separate episode on managing up.
It's been coming up a lot lately in my one-on-one work and in
conversations, I've been having with folks, so just stay tuned
managing up is, is in the queue for something for us to talk
about, all right? So that is what I wanted to
share with you today. Thoughts about engagement
Mindset attitude ways to think about it for yourself and also
as a manager of humans and as a human who has a manager who is
also a human, the mindset is all about.
How are you thinking? What are the thoughts about
whatever it is that you're observing?
The attitude is the emotional part.
What are your feelings? What emotions do you have about
this? And then engagement is what
comes as a result? When you look at, here's my
thoughts, this is how I feel. Therefore, as a result
engagement will look like this, the more you have an
understanding of the component parts, the more options you have
and the easier it is to make decisions about how you will
influence what happens next. So, thanks so much for
listening. If you want to work with me
one-on-one you can do that. Just go into the show.
It's book A Time on my calendar for a consultation and we can
talk more about what's going on with you, how I can help and how
that all works, thanks so much for listening and I will talk to
you next time. Hey before you go if you like
this podcast, please leave a review.
Tell me why you listen and what has helped you?
Thanks so much. I'll see you next time.