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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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I have to say that this weekend 
has been so beautiful. 

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It has been sunny and warm. 
And I went for this nice, long 

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walk in the neighborhood and I 
saw all of these flowers 

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blooming and one of the things 
that made me think about is the 

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importance of recognizing the 
seasons that we are in in our 

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work. 
And our life. 

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And also pausing to ask yourself
what is it that I need to grow 

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and to thrive? 
Because in the course of our 

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work, it can change over time. 
What you have and what you need.

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Now might change that might look
different because you're growing

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your you know, your needs and 
interests are growing and 

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changing and also the 
organization that you're in 

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might So be changing and the 
other reason I was thinking 

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about this in terms of seasons 
in our work and what we need to 

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really Thrive and grow is 
because a couple of days ago and

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went to an event, I ran into a 
friend of mine and her boyfriend

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and I hadn't really gotten to 
meet him very much. 

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I'd met him very briefly but we 
had time to chat as we were at 

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this event and I was asking him 
about what he did and he said 

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all I do this and I was at This 
company for a while and then I 

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was at this company, but I 
recently joined this new company

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and it's only been three weeks. 
But we're doing this and this, 

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and it's really pretty cool. 
And it was so wonderful, just to

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see how lit up he was by what he
was doing and where he was doing

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it and what he was noticing in 
this new work environment and it

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just made me think. 
Oh, right? 

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It's so nice. 
When we feel like we're in a 

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work environment That really 
allows us to grow and to thrive 

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like it really lights us up when
we're in that kind of situation 

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and a couple of weeks ago, my 
boyfriend and I actually had 

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lunch with his one of his, 
former managers, it was years 

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ago that they work together. 
My boyfriend, still remembers 

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him so fondly as one of the best
managers he ever had. 

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And it was this really lovely. 
Point of remembering and really 

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seeing the effect that our work 
has on us on the effect that our

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managers have on us and how much
of a difference. 

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It really makes not just in our 
professional lives but just as 

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humans, when we have a manager 
that we really trust in my 

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boyfriend's, Casey said yeah, 
like manager was so good at 

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being an umbrella for us and 
kind of blocking us from a lot. 

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The other stuff that was going 
on. 

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And in his manner, his former 
manager said. 

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Yeah, you don't even know the 
half of it. 

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It was it was rough. 
But you know, I do my best and 

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it was just this beautiful 
moment of highlighting like the 

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real value as people as humans, 
when we are able to have that 

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kind of relationship at work, I 
think it's not as common as we 

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realize. 
I think a lot of us have It's 

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with less-than-ideal manager 
situations or maybe my view is 

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skewed a little bit because of 
my own background. 

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I don't know. 
But I do know that when you have

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that experience at work, it 
makes such a difference. 

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And I know that one of the 
reasons a lot of folks, listen 

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to this podcast and come to work
with me is because you genuinely

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care about doing a good job for 
your people and Also, for 

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yourself like you want to be 
good at being a manager. 

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Like it's a lot more fun to be 
good at it than to be bad at it.

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I think that's true. 
Just in general. 

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Like if you have the choice, why
not be good at something than 

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bad at it? 
And struggle at it? 

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And, you know, there are growing
pains, of course, but we're here

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to learn and grow. 
So, you know, that's what it's 

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all about. 
So today, you know, as I in, 

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kind of light of those 
experiences that I I had quite 

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recently, I really been thinking
about these three things with 

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respect to the workplace and 
being a manager. 

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I'm thinking about mindset 
attitude and engagement and 

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engagement is a word that comes 
up a lot in the workplace. 

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And I looked up because I wanted
to make sure I got the 

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definition, you know, really 
dialed in and this is the 

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definition that I found when I 
looked at. 

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Like, when we're talking about 
Employee Engagement, what does 

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that really mean? 
And here's what I saw, it says 

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Employee Engagement, improves 
work culture, reduces turnover 

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increases productivity builds 
better, work, and customer, 

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relationships and effect profit.
High Employee Engagement also, 

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turns workers into your best 
Advocates. 

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So, in light of that, it's no 
wonder that so many Workplaces 

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can get very like obsessed with 
Employee Engagement. 

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They might do Employee 
Engagement surveys multiple 

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times a year. 
Like they're all these different

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tools and ways to try to 
understand what is our Employee 

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Engagement. 
Like and if you've ever worked 

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in a place where you knew there 
was very low engagement. 

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Then you also know what that 
feels like it often feels like 

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there's very low Morale. 
People put in the bare minimum. 

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There's just a feeling of kind 
of, like, heaviness, or a 

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feeling of being a little bit, 
detached versus an environment, 

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where people are very engaged, 
and there's often more of a 

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sense of enthusiasm, and 
optimism more of a sense of, 

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hey, like, what needs to be 
done. 

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Let me get to it or, oh, I had 
this idea a lot more kind of 

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energy and initiative flow. 
Owing. 

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And in most workplaces, it's 
going to be a mix and depending 

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on the size of your 
organization, it can vary 

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dramatically from one team to 
the next. 

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So if you have a really big 
organization like thousands of 

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people, you can almost think of 
every team or every business 

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unit or every like Bureau can 
have its own microclimate. 

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So in one particular, Area of 
the organization there might be 

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really high engagement in 
another part of the 

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organization. 
It might be lower and it can 

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really depend based on, you 
know, leadership personalities 

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and functional roles. 
Sometimes when things are going 

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great on the sales, team things 
are not going great, you know? 

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Like on the engineering team or 
reverse, it really can just 

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depend but I wanted to talk 
about engagement because I know 

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it's something that's very top 
of mind in a a lot of work 

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places. 
And as I was thinking about, you

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know, where does that really 
come from? 

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And what does that mean in terms
of being a leader and a manager?

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And how might you think about 
this in a way that helps you to 

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both feel more satisfied in the 
way that you're doing your job 

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and be more successful at it? 
Here's what I came up with that.

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I wanted to share with you so we
can think about engagement as a 

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combination of both the actions 
that people Are taking. 

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So the behaviors that they're 
doing the actions that they take

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as well as the emotion or kind 
of the attitude with which they 

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take them. 
So if they're you know, showing 

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up for work but they're very 
reluctant and just maybe a 

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little passive-aggressive it's 
like they're doing the work 

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there. 
Their behaviors are doing the 

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work but the underlying energy 
and attitude is kind of pulling 

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back and is Sort of disengaged, 
right? 

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So that's the element of the 
emotion in the attitude and so 

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when we're looking at engagement
and what are the ways that we 

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can affect that, like, where 
does that come from? 

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There are two pieces I want you 
to think about one is mindset 

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and mindset. 
You can also think of as the 

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thoughts behind the scenes, like
the thoughts that people are 

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holding about themselves and the
workplace and just what are the 

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thoughts? 
They have about this. 

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Then we have attitude that adds 
this emotional part attitude is 

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a lot about how you are feeling.
If you've ever heard, you know, 

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kind of the quotes or the, I 
don't know what you call it, 

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like the idiom maybe to have an 
attitude of gratitude. 

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This idea that if we are feeling
gratitude, it'll change the way 

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that we feel and then that will 
change the experience that we're

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having of a moment or If you've 
ever, you know, if you were ever

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the teenager that your parents 
said, you know what, you need 

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to, you need an attitude 
adjustment, you need to change 

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your attitude about this, right?
It's because when we're in that 

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teenager angst, you know, 
rebellious we just, you know, 

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think we know everything, we 
might get a little bit of that 

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reflected back to us by our 
parents or by adults saying, you

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know what, you need to check 
your attitude kid. 

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And so sometimes we encounter 
that to in the workplace just 

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this idea of what is that 
attitude that you're bringing 

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into the situation and as I'm 
talking to, it's so interesting 

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because I'm always thinking 
about you in a role of being a 

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manager. 
So you're looking to your team 

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but I'm also understanding you 
have a manager and you have 

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people that you work with. 
And so, as you listen to this, 

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you can think about how does 
this apply in all directions. 

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So for you to your team, for 
you, up to your manager, for you

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in your own life and also in the
way that you relate to your 

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peers and other folks who are 
kind of at the same leadership 

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level as you are. 
So that's attitude, it's this 

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emotional component and then 
when you have your thoughts, 

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your mindset, plus the emotion, 
and the attitude, then that 

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together will turn into 
engagement or Disengagement. 

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So let me give you a couple of 
examples and it really starts 

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with, you know, what are you 
seeing? 

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What are you observing? 
Let me break this down a little 

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bit. 
So for example, this is a 

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conversation I had with someone 
earlier in my career, but it is 

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always stayed with me because it
really, well, I'll tell the 

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story and you can, you can see 
for yourself. 

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So I was talking with this 
person who had worked in a 

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company for many, many years, 
and And I was kind of new to the

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organization. 
So I was just, you know, like 

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having a conversation about the 
workplace and all of the stuff 

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and one of the things that was 
happening was there was going to

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be a reorg and there was a 
little concern that in the 

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course of the reorg, there might
be some positions cut. 

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And I was talking with one of my
colleagues about this, and he 

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said, oh yeah, you know, people 
who get promoted around here are

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the the first to get cut when 
there's a reorg. 

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So that was his observation, 
that was what he had seen that. 

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People who get promoted are the 
first to get cut when there's a 

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reorg. 
So for him, what he thought 

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about it was, don't get 
promoted. 

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Because if you get promoted, 
your job becomes at risk, How 

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did he feel about that? 
What was his attitude about it? 

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It was a little cynical. 
The attitude was, why should I 

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try to go for a promotion? 
If it's just going to put me at 

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risk his attitude was hey, stay 
safe, just do your job, keep a 

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low profile. 
And so what did he do? 

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As a result was his engagement? 
Like it was pretty minimal like 

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he was good at what he did but 
his attitude was I'm here to do 

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my job and know, No more because
there's no benefit and I don't 

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really want to stand out as 
being, you know, a top 

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performer. 
I just want to do my job and 

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then go home and to be really 
clear. 

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There's also nothing wrong with 
that. 

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Like it's totally cool to be 
like I'm just here to do my job 

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and I want to go home and like 
have a life. 

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But I want us to take a moment 
to look at it through the lens 

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of what is it that creates 
engagement or disengagement? 

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So again it's like what am I 
seeing? 

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What do I think about it? 
That's the mindset part. 

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How do I feel about it? 
That's the attitude and then 

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what what will I do? 
As a result of all of that and 

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that directs us to engagement 
whether it's high engagement or 

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low engagement. 
But another example for you, oh 

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and also before I give you that 
other example, so one of the 

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reasons why that story really 
struck me and why it stayed with

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me all these years is because it
had never occurred to me. 

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That that would be a thing that 
this perspective of getting 

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promoted is bad because it puts 
you at risk of losing your job. 

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When the leadership team decided
to do a reorg, I had just I've 

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never encountered that before 
and so it really, you know, just

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struck me and stayed with me all
of this time for me in that 

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moment. 
I looked at it a little bit 

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differently for me. 
I looked at that same kind of 

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situation and I thought, well, I
want to get promoted if it looks

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like a role that I want, because
that'll be good for me, no 

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matter what. 
For me, my goal was not to stay 

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at that one company as long as 
possible, my goal was to 

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continue to advance to To do new
things to have new experiences. 

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And so, for me, it didn't turn 
on my cynicism, it just turned 

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on. 
I think my awareness of okay, 

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that's a really interesting 
perspective but I know what I'm 

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here for and so I'm going to 
engage because I I have some 

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optimism about what's possible 
for me here and I'm going to go 

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after that. 
It also though, made it really 

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helpful when I was then managing
other people because it also 

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helped me realize not everyone 
has the same perspective and the

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same desire around what they 
want from their work. 

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Not everybody wants to get 
promoted and to advance some 

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people really love what they do.
They are good at it and they 

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just want to be good at it and 
that one place for as long as 

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possible they want stability 
they want no surprises. 

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They just want to be really good
at what they do. 

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So then when I became a manager,
Really helped me to have 

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conversations with my team 
because they all had different 

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things that really motivated 
them and that created engagement

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or not and it helped me to be a 
better manager for them because 

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of this one experience that I 
had earlier in my career. 

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So another example I wanted to 
share with you and she was in an

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organization that she loved but 
she also had been feeling pretty

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stagnant. 
She was at this level for a 

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couple of years. 
Years and she was doing a lot of

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you know, additional work to 
really prove herself to be ready

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for that higher level. 
She realized after a couple of 

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years of you know being a top 
performer, she realized it's 

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actually really tough to get 
promoted here because it's a 

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very flat organization so 
there's nowhere to go. 

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It's like there were a limited 
number of higher level seats and

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as long as people were not, 
Moving and there weren't new 

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positions being created at that 
level, there was nowhere for to 

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get promoted up into. 
And so one of the things we 

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talked about in that I coached 
her on was what did she want to 

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do about that? 
Did she want to find another job

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someplace else? 
Like try to make it a lateral 

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promotion by going to another 
place? 

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Or did she want to stay at her 
current organization and if so 

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for how long and then what was 
her plan? 

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And so as we coach together, 
Either she said, you know, while

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I really like my organization, I
really like my team. 

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I just am really hoping that 
somebody above me leaves, so 

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that I can then step up into 
their seat. 

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So, her mindset was, I have to 
be strategic and I have to be 

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persistent because this will 
take some time. 

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That was her mindset. 
Have to be strategic and 

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persistent. 
This will take some time from 

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their, her attitude and her 
emotions. 

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And she felt pretty optimistic 
because she said, you know, I 

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like the company, I'm going to 
give it a fair shot. 

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I'm willing to stay here for, 
you know, so much time. 

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And I'm going to use this time 
to really prepare and position 

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myself to be so, ready for this 
role. 

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And as a result, she was 
actually very actively engaged 

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because she believed that she 
could do something about it. 

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And if not like, if it turns out
that after all our And she still

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was not seeing any opportunity 
for advancement. 

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She also knew like she also knew
how long she was willing to stay

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so she knew she wouldn't stay 
there forever. 

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If it felt like there was really
no possibility but she also knew

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she was giving it everything she
could to set herself up. 

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And that if she decided to 
leave, she would have a really 

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great track record of 
accomplishments and things to 

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talk about that she did while 
she was at this one 

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organization. 
So her engagement ended up being

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very high just because of her 
mindset and then her attitude 

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and I'm also happy to share that
she did. 

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In fact, get promoted and 
interestingly enough, they also 

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had a reorg which then had some 
people leaving new positions 

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opening up and she ended up 
going for one of the new spots. 

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It's interesting. 
You know, as I'm recording this,

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there have been quite a wave of 
layoffs in a few different. 

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Different Industries. 
I'd say like, in the last, maybe

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eight months or so and layoffs 
can always be very challenging 

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because it's like we don't have 
control over them if they happen

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to us and it can really 
challenge our feeling of being 

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in control and feeling like, if 
I do a good job, I will have the

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job. 
Sometimes you do a great job and

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the job goes away because 
there's a reduction in force, 

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but when there are changes that 
happen in your organization or 

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It's a reorg or layoffs, it also
introduces uncertainty, but that

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also means that can introduce 
opportunities and so having a 

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mindset and an attitude that 
will support you in the season 

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that you're in becomes really 
valuable. 

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Because that's something that 
you have a lot of effective 

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control over. 
And so, when you're then 

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thinking, too about your people,
the people on your team. 

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If you're noticing some folks 
seem to be a little checked out,

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a little disengaged, then the 
conversations you want to have 

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our around, what is their 
mindset? 

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What is their attitude, or how 
are they feeling? 

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And depending on your 
organization? 

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You might do very regular, 
surveys like engagement surveys 

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pulse surveys, there are 
different ways that 

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organizations get a sense of how
people feel that can sometimes 

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give you some Insight about, you
know. 

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What's going on? 
What's the vibe that you can 

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think about being curious in 
those two directions? 

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I think we often jump to that 
actions. 

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What do I do, right? 
Like, if I notice low 

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engagement, what do I do? 
If I'm feeling disengaged? 

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What do I do? 
So, we want to roll back a 

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little bit. 
And First, Direct our attention 

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to like, what are people seeing 
or what are you seeing? 

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What are you thinking about it? 
What is your mindset here and 

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then what is your feeling about 
it? 

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What is that attitude? 
You're having. 

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And these things can also change
based on what's going on in our 

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personal lives. 
So it helps to have a holistic 

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00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,100
perspective when you're thinking
about this both towards 

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00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,400
yourself. 
Like, are you feeling engaged? 

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Do you feel like you have what 
you need? 

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How's your attitude has your 
mindset. 

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And also, when you are in 
conversation or thinking about 

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your team or even your manager, 
in terms of managing up, 

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00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:11,300
sometimes we forget that our 
managers are also people. 

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00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:16,100
They might be dis engaged 
because of either what is 

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00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:20,400
happening in their personal life
or just what's happening in 

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their professional life. 
And so that's when learning how 

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to manage up and how to think 
about what are your options too.

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To influence and work with this 
person, become really important 

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00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,900
and really valuable. 
Also, as a side note, I need to 

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do a separate episode on 
managing up. 

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00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:43,200
It's been coming up a lot lately
in my one-on-one work and in 

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00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:48,000
conversations, I've been having 
with folks, so just stay tuned 

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00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:53,300
managing up is, is in the queue 
for something for us to talk 

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00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:56,000
about, all right? 
So that is what I wanted to 

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share with you today. 
Thoughts about engagement 

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Mindset attitude ways to think 
about it for yourself and also 

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as a manager of humans and as a 
human who has a manager who is 

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00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,500
also a human, the mindset is all
about. 

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How are you thinking? 
What are the thoughts about 

355
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,100
whatever it is that you're 
observing? 

356
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:21,800
The attitude is the emotional 
part. 

357
00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:24,400
What are your feelings? 
What emotions do you have about 

358
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,200
this? 
And then engagement is what 

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00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,400
comes as a result? 
When you look at, here's my 

360
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,100
thoughts, this is how I feel. 
Therefore, as a result 

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00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,800
engagement will look like this, 
the more you have an 

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00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,800
understanding of the component 
parts, the more options you have

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00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,800
and the easier it is to make 
decisions about how you will 

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influence what happens next. 
So, thanks so much for 

365
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,300
listening. 
If you want to work with me 

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00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:58,600
one-on-one you can do that. 
Just go into the show. 

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00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:03,100
It's book A Time on my calendar 
for a consultation and we can 

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00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:07,200
talk more about what's going on 
with you, how I can help and how

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that all works, thanks so much 
for listening and I will talk to

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you next time. 
Hey before you go if you like 

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00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,100
this podcast, please leave a 
review. 

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00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:25,000
Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

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Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.