Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello, and welcome.
I'm glad you're here. And I hope you're doing well as
we get started. I need to share that.
I recorded this episode and then I don't know what happened.
Something weird happened. My computer crashed, I had to
reboot it and episode was gone. So I'm recording it again.
And I'm telling you this because I know that you have had Had
things like this happen where you have done something, you've
done some work and then you went to save it and it didn't save or
you the system, something weird happened, and it crashed, and
you lost the work and it happens.
It is a thing that happens. But here are my thoughts about
it. Number one, this is a normal
thing. Like, if you're going to make
stuff, sometimes things are going to go weird and it's going
to crash. You're going to lose like Going
to lose the work. So that's normal.
That's part of what happens here.
And number two, I'm also deciding to think of it from the
lens of, well, this episode that you're getting now is going to
be so much better because that first one that was like my warm
up. That was like my draft.
That was like the dress rehearsal and now I'm going to
be able to deliver this perspective and information to
you. In an even better way with more
clarity and a whole lot more fun because, hey, I'm a human too.
And sometimes they get a little stuck in wanting to get things.
Right. I have an idea of how I want
them to be. I want to get it done correctly
or in the way that I imagined it and sometimes as a result that
can make me a little bit rigid. I don't know if you can relate
but you have this idea of how things need to be and if other
people or the world around you or the system's you're working
with, Are not totally onboard and cooperating with you
sometimes that can be really challenging so I am with you.
We are humans and we roll with the world as it rolls with us
and it's not a problem. So the main topic I wanted to
share with you today, I wanted to talk about mindfulness and
specifically thinking about mindfulness as a skill of
attention and this makes it for me like this is the reason Ian
why mindfulness is so valuable as a practice and as a like an
approach to your work and to your life and your inner World,
your outer world. What makes mindfulness so useful
because it's a skill of attention.
Where is your attention? What is the quality of your
attention? And the way that I think about
mindfulness is in this, this is how I Define it, it is your
attention in the present moment. With curiosity and kindness
present moment. Meaning, can I be present and
aware of what I am experiencing? What is happening here?
Can I simply notice what is in this present moment with me?
Sometimes what we become mindful of is how distracted we are.
Wow, my mind is everywhere right now except for hear that.
It's mindfulness to can I observe and notice the quality
of my attention. Like it's not about, you know,
I'm going to ignore everything to to focus.
It really is about being honest and really kind in noticing
where is my attention right now? What is the quality of my
attention? And my perspective also is that
as humans, you arrived onto the planet finely tuned to the Of
attention of the people around you.
I think of this as simply a survival mechanism.
That when we are born, we can't, we can't talk, we can't move
very well. We're very dependent on the
humans around us. We're very dependent and were
very tuned in to the quality of attention that we are receiving.
And so for a lot of us and also So I will share if you have kids
or if you've spent time around kids you know that they're
really tuned into the quality of attention that they're getting
from the adults. My favorite example is if you've
ever spent time with the little kid and they want you to come,
look at something like, hey, pay attention to me, come look at
this. I want to show you something.
If you are faking it, if you are pretending.
Yes sweetie. I see you.
They know when you are lying, they Until they can tell when
you are faking when you are pretending to pay attention, but
really you're distracted and part of you is thinking about
something else, as humans were so perceptive to the quality of
attention of the people around us.
And as you grow into an adult, you learn all these new skills,
all these new things that you learn to do and you never lose
that ability to feel All into and become aware of the quality
of attention that you are receiving from people around
you. I think this is also why we tend
to take things. So personally, if we're in a
meeting with someone, and they seem impatient or
short-tempered, so often, the first thought is, are they mad
at me? Did I do something?
Is this about that thing over there?
I wonder if they're upset about this.
Did I do something wrong? We tend to Miss attribute, other
people's behaviors to ourselves, so much of the time.
When really, we don't know what else is happening for them.
And then we are the human in front of them.
And so they're sort of, you know, having their experience,
in our Direction. And we take things really.
Personally, the way that I've explained this in relationship
context, it works in the workplace, but sometimes it
really makes sense. When we think about our, our
relationship with family, friends, and loved ones, Ones.
Is this idea of having emotions near somebody.
So for example, I might be having an emotion near you.
It's not necessarily about you, like I might be feeling really
frustrated and so I'm talking and I'm feeling so frustrated,
but it's not about you. I'm not frustrated because of
you, but you are in the presence of a human who is frustrated,
and you might have some feelings about That and you might have
some thoughts about that and you might then try to change that.
How can I fix it? What can I do is this about me?
Like it's so interesting when we start to look at each other like
a relationships in ourselves. Do this perspective of being
Mindful and present to is there an emotion here?
Let's just hold that, you know like is there an emotion here
before going into the store Three, or the misattribution or
wondering, is it me or is it, you know, something completely
some could something completely different.
So mindfulness is a skill of attention, you're already wired
for it, you probably don't realize it and the more you
become aware of how you can use your attention and how valuable
it is. It really begins to change the
way that you work. The way you communicate.
And the way that you experience Your work and your life to be
quite honest because you know, as well as I that if you are not
enjoying what is happening in your work and professional life,
then that unease or dissatisfaction will have a
ripple effect throughout the rest of your life.
And you know this because if you are not happy at work, you
probably are talking about it to somebody else or if you're not
talking about it and you're just holding it silently inside.
I'd then you're not going to show up into your other
relationships in the same way if you're holding something kind of
difficult and secret on the inside and you might also know
this because perhaps you have been the person who lived with
somebody who is having a really hard time at work and when they
came home and they wanted to talk about it or they came home
and they didn't want to talk about it, but you could still
tell that they weren't Will you present that?
Something was weighing on their mind or heavy on their heart.
You could still sense that it was there because as humans were
really good at sensing and perceiving the quality of
attention of the people around us.
So here are some thoughts and some ideas I wanted to share
with you around being mindful in the workplace and how to use it,
both for yourself and for the People that you work with.
And as context to, I have just found mindfulness to be
incredibly useful as a human who works with other humans.
It's something that has really informed my career and the work
that I did as a manager and then now not just in my work as a
coach and like as a teacher and instructor that just has a human
who is navigating the world mindfulness is the Datian of
just about everything that I do now.
So here are some things one, is that when you are being mindful,
when you are practicing noticing, where's my attention?
Is it in the present moment with curiosity and kindness and
curiosity, is what allows us to learn new things.
It allows us to wonder, huh? I wonder what else is going on
here, or? Oh, that's really interesting.
Huh. Okay, and then kindness is what
keeps the Curiosity warm and friendly.
Instead of feeling like an interrogation.
So it's the quality of curiosity that you had when you were a
little kid or you're just interested in things, but
there's no agenda and there's no self-judgment.
It's just this friendly warm curiosity of like, oh, this is
so interesting. I wonder.
Hmm. Okay, that's the quality of
curiosity that we're going for. So when you have this in mind
then it allows you to notice when something is a little bit
off. You start to notice it sooner
rather than later which means you can address challenges and
problems when they're smaller rather than until they get so
big. So for example, here are some
signs that something might be a little off.
Over consuming over-consuming can be over consuming advice.
Like when you ask 10 different people for their advice on a
thing and then you feel overwhelmed because you don't
know what to do with all the, their opinions over consuming
can also look like like, literally over eating food,
which we do when we can feel stressed or when were angry, but
don't want to admit it or when we're worried, and are having a
hard time facing that. Zooming of food can happen over
consuming of alcohol. I'm going to say that because I
used to be in the legal profession and that is a really
big issue in that profession in part because there are a lot of
cultural norms around. Drinking it starts in law
school, that was how we would often socialize and then it
turns into social events at work and then it turns into all this
is just how I bond with people and it takes the edge off.
And the drinking culture has been so prevalent and so
normalized. It is really easy to Simply over
consume. So that's a practice that often
happens and we can also over consumed with knowledge.
Like we sometimes think we need more knowledge in order to solve
problems or in order to address challenges and that can turn
into Down a rabbit hole of research that can turn into
never trusting yourself to make the right decision.
And instead over consuming information thinking that more
information. Another class another book,
another degree, another certification thinking those are
the things that will help you address the challenge.
Avoidance is another sign. That things are a little bit
off. Is there something?
You are avoiding a In a decision, decision, avoidance is
huge because the thing we tend to Art, but we're tending to
want to protect from, is either a fear of being wrong or a fear
of making a mistake. And so there's can be a
reluctance to make a decision for fear that.
What if I make the wrong one? What if I make the wrong
decision and I make a mistake or it's not it doesn't go the way I
want it to go. So instead of making the
decision, we avoid the Decision. Which in a way, is another
decision of itself. It's like you're deciding to not
decide but you're still choosing an outcome, you're choosing the
outcome that comes from not deciding.
So watch out for avoidance. Ruminating the non-stop
wondering what if and it's the kind of what if that makes
things feel closed and crowded intense as opposed to that
expansive? What if That feels inviting and
spacious and filled with possibility, it's really
interesting. You want to feel into is this
what if making me feel better more open or making feel more
closed and worried the closed worried often looks like
replaying conversations in your head.
Like, oh maybe if I had said this differently they would have
done that differently or it can think of Imagining the
conversation. So if I say this, then they'll
say that. And then I'll say this or the
fear of, if I say this, I bet they'll say that and then I'll
have to do this and there's a difference between kind of being
strategic and intentional and the feeling of anxiety that kind
of spins up and never actually goes anywhere.
So you want to be able to feel into Difference.
And then the last thing, the sign that something is a little
bit off is there's like a complaining happening.
And you know this if you've ever been the person who live with
somebody who came home and complained about work, or who,
you know, kept it really silent inside, but you could tell
something was wrong or if you are feeling this urge to
complain about what's going on with others.
And a lot of times, what I see is that the feeling of complaint
is often Being driven by a desire to connect and to feel
understood. It's this thing of like what is
happening, something doesn't feel right?
And I don't know how to address that, but I have clarity about
the pain or the discomfort or the problem.
And so I put my attention on that part and then I look for
connection with others through that difficulty.
So when we are being mindful we are simply Hang attention to any
of these behaviors, not from a place of judgment.
But just from this place of noticing, ah, this is
interesting. I'm noticing this tendency and
the thing that can be tricky as that very often, it's a
cumulative pattern. So it's something that happens
over time. And this is also why it's so
much about the context. So, you know, it's not
Necessarily like are you thinking over and over about how
you're going to have this conversation?
It's more like are you not sleeping because you're not able
to think through and then move forward on this conversation or
as one of my early clients told me?
She's like I love what I do. I'm really good at it but I
can't stop thinking about it and I want to have some times when
I'm not thinking about work. If I'm taking my dog for a walk,
I just want to enjoy being With my dog, if I'm having dinner
with my husband, I don't want to be thinking about work.
I just want to be present in the moment with my partner.
So those are some of the distinctions that were looking
for. We want to be mindful and aware
and feel into these differences of so that we start to know so
that you start to know, are you in a place where you want to
change something? Because Otherwise it's easier
for the momentum to just continue in a direction that
doesn't actually help. And then what's interesting is
when you turn the lens in a slightly different angle and
then you are the manager and you're looking at your manager.
So how you manage up you're looking at your team, how you
manage down and you're looking at your colleagues like how you
manage a cross, you can start to look for a couple of things and
I'll just give a few examples. Examples that my clients have
come with. And what's really fun to is
because I work with people from every industry.
I've really been able to see how much of these situations.
They're really not specific to the industry.
It's more like any time two or more people are working
together. This can happen because this is
a human thing. So the good news to for you is
that the more you learn how to work with this from a human.
Perspective. Then you can bring it into any
situation that you are working with humans and you can use like
the tools and Frameworks in those different settings because
the industry is not the most prevailing thing, it really is
the human part of it. So a number of my clients have
made observations and it's this essentially this, oh, this
person I'm working with is not very good at managing their
stress and so they're taking it out on me.
Me or they might phrase it as oh, my manager is under a lot of
stress and anxiety. And so now that's flowing out of
her. And as a result, she's putting
lots of pressure on us trying to get some kind of outcome.
Or it might be this other manager that I'm working with is
really stressed out and they're not managing that.
Well, and as a result, its kind of leaking out.
And now everybody is feeling the sense of urgency and stress
because that one person is radiating, this urgency and
stress. I think it's so interesting when
we, when we look at humans working together as participants
In this ecosystem. And if one person is chronically
and consistently radiating, urgency and anxiety, and stress,
it becomes very, very valuable for the other folks in that
system, to be able to identify and manage for themselves.
What do you do in the presence of a stressed out person?
Because we want to be really mindful of not taking that on
and then. Become stressed too.
And then we put pressure and anxiety and urgency on those
around us. Like, sometimes being the
manager, one of the most valuable roles you can do is act
as a little bit of a buffer. So that the stress of the folks
above you is not going to bleed down into your team.
And the thing is we don't want you to absorb it, right?
But we want you to feel The capable and prepared to redirect
or neutralize it and at the very least, that means not taking it
personally so that you're not absorbing it and then having
that as an adverse cumulative effect and one of the things
that helps is that mindfulness because it gives you perspective
and that perspective gives you options.
So here are a couple of things to think about one is you want
to turn to Or is it you want to face it?
Whatever the it is the thing that's causing you to be in
stress or anxiety or the thing that you see someone else is
really struggling with. You want to be able to turn
towards it and face it from this place of staying really grounded
and really present. Then you want to name it.
How are you seeing this? How would you describe it?
The way that you name and describe a thing.
Well, then inform the path. You choose to address it or
correct it or support it or fix it, right?
And this is where then once you're able to name it, this is
what I'm seeing. This is how I would describe it.
When you do that, from a place of being very Mindful and
grounded present with curiosity and kindness.
You're able to start to get a sense.
And so what is it that we're really dealing with here and
once you can first described it, then you're in the position for
this next piece which is to then be curious that Curiosity that
gives you perspective which gives you options which lets you
take things less personally. So it doesn't cost as much
energetically. It's less draining and it's less
distracting. It simply becomes 0.
This is really interesting. It's so interesting.
Resting that this person is choosing to say this in this
way. So it's really interesting that
this person seems to be struggling with this, what is it
that they're trying to achieve? What is the problem?
They're trying to solve for? What do I think is really going
on here? Who should I ask about this?
Who might, I get another opinion or perspective on right?
Like once you're able to get into this place of Founded
curiosity. It allows you to tap into the
part of you that is really capable highly competent
flexible resilient resourceful and what's so great about that.
Those are the exact mindset and skills that you want to have
when you're dealing with a situation.
You've never dealt with before. A lot of times, I think we look
for a specific recipe, I just need the exact steps.
I need the recipe for how to deal with this person.
But so much of what we addressed in the workplace with humans is
nuanced, there are cultural considerations, there are all
kinds of contexts around the relationship, what's going on.
But if we can simply remember, can I be present?
Can I turn towards this thing that I'm noticing is a little
bit off? Can I name it?
How would I describe what this is?
How would I, you know, name what what is happening?
And then being really curious and really kind, okay?
This is interesting. Let's take a look like what else
could be going on here? What else could this mean?
What other options do I have? Now all of a sudden you're
getting a little bit more Direction, a little bit more
grounded just because of the way that you're meeting the moment.
So that is what I wanted to offer to you today and if you
want to To do this work with me, then you just go into the show
notes, go to the calendar link, you can schedule a consult with
me so we can talk about it. I also have a group coming up in
May, so go into the show notes. You'll find a link to learn more
about that and that is what I've got for you this week.
Thank you so much for listening and I will see you next time.
Hey, before you go. Go.
If you like this podcast, leave a review.
Tell me why you listen and what has helped you?
Thanks so much. I'll see you next time.