Welcome to the New Manager Podcast.
I'm your host, Kim Nichol. Hello and welcome.
I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well.
One thing I've been thinking a lot about is how you learn and
how to make learning feel natural, so that you're more
likely to then apply new ideas and new concepts into your
actual life and your workplace. And it occurred to me that I
think one of the reasons why my approach has been so effective
with my clients and my students is because my perspective is
really grounded in the earliest teaching that I was doing years
ago in a studio, 10 to 12 years ago, I started teaching this
functional fitness class. And it was no equipment.
It was just body weight. And So what I was teaching was
helping people learn how to move more effectively in their
physical bodies and creating a little bit more of this internal
awareness of, you know, like, like how how it feels to be in
your body so you could sense where your weight was, were you
balanced. So you could really work with
your different muscles as you were going through these
movements in a way that started to let it feel easy for you.
And because of teaching these public classes.
And so I would have lots of different people come to class
with lots of different bodies. So sometimes at the beginning of
class someone would tell me, oh, I'm recovering from an injury or
I, you know, I had surgery three months ago and my range of
motion is still really limited. Or somebody might come in and
say been training for a marathon.
And so this part of my body is really strong, but this other
part of my body maybe not so much.
And I had people of different ages and different genders and,
you know, kind of different different stages of their
relationship to their physical body, their physical health.
So I had to learn how do I teach these concepts in a way that
will be effective and connect with a variety of people.
And, you know, and how do I do that very quickly and very
efficiently. And you know, the point of
learning these movements and of training the body was not to be
just good at executing the movements.
I mean, the entire point especially of functional fitness
and functional movement is you are developing more capacity in
your body so that when you leave the studio and you're just
living your life, you have available greater range of
motion, more strength and everything just works because
you've built up this internal capacity and an awareness of how
to use your body. So if you go to pick up a, you
know, a heavy box of books or groceries, you're going to move
your body in a way that is safe and supports you and lets you
access your strength. Like, your body's just going to
know how to do that because of the way we've been practicing it
in the studio. And after that class, I then
also started teaching yoga, and I became a yoga teacher, and it
was really similar. This idea of I want to guide you
through an experience in the studio and on the mat that
awakens a little more awareness of your own interior.
So it's not just about the shapes you're making in a
physical sense, but the awareness and intention that
you're bringing to that experience.
So that when you leave the studio and the yoga mat is
rolled up in the corner, you're actually bringing this awareness
and these principles to life as you're moving through the day.
And then I was, I was teaching them mindfulness, which was such
a natural extension of both physical practice and these
interior practices. Mindfulness is a quality of
attention, and so you can do anything, mindfully or not, you
know. You can be mindful when you are
brushing your teeth, or you can just be, you know, like regular
distracted. You can be mindful when you are
attending a meeting with your boss.
Or you can be, you know, like stressed out and performative
and distracted, like whatever you're doing, You can do it with
a quality of attention that is a bit more present and curious and
kind. That's what mindfulness is all
about. And so then when I started
teaching meditation and mindfulness, and I was teaching
that in the class, but also being brought to different
companies, different organizations, and teaching
mindfulness in corporate settings, again, the point of it
is not to teach you how to be a really good meditator or how to
be, you know, like a level a mindfulness practitioner.
The point is, can we develop some capacities in a very
intentional way so that when you are simply being a human, living
your life, you have easy and ready access to these new ways
of being? So that when you're going
through the day, you're not thinking, OK, now it's time to
be mindful. And I will bring attention to my
breath and I will observe the, you know, the sky and the
clouds. It's not that formal, but it's
this really kind of gentle, organic change where you simply
begin to inhabit and experience your life a little bit
differently because of how you are becoming changed through the
specific work that you do in the class setting.
So that's that's always informed my approach to how I teach and
coach when it comes to career and leadership and manager
development. And it directly applies to this
specific topic. I wanted to share with you the
topic today, it's very, very specific.
I want to speak for a moment about communication tips for
conflict averse people. Now, the reason I shared all of
that background about, you know, how I teach and why I teach.
And the way I think about this is because if you are a person
who is conflict averse, if you tend to feel an anxiety spike
when there's the sense or perception or possibility of
some kind of conflict or some kind of combative moment, and
you kind of feel yourself get anxious and shrink or shut down
or withdraw or go into silence. If that's just something that
tends to happen very quickly, then what I've found helps is
what I'm going to share with you in a moment.
And also the reason why it helps is because when I coach and
teach my clients this, especially when we're working
one-on-one or in this small group, I'm able to work with you
in a way that lets you access the concept in a way that feels
really natural and that feels like you.
So it doesn't feel like, OK, now there's a conflict that might
happen. Let me pull out this, you know,
diagram or this sheet of paper or let me refer back to this
book to remember the academic application of this principle
because that's not how we work in real life.
Like my goal is to help you develop awareness of these
capacities, to build your capacity so it feels really
available and it feels natural and you just are like, oh, I I
now just know how to do this. It's just in me because of now
the way I'm seeing and thinking and feeling.
So for you, when you are feeling that conflict aversion, and this
is also important, if you have people on your team or maybe
it's your boss or maybe it's someone that you work with and
you have this sense that they might be like very conflict
averse because it's really difficult to pin them down and
have a direct conversation. Or you sense that when you are
being direct you kind of feel them shrinking or getting
really, really uncomfortable and it it just becomes this this
difficult thing. So this message is also for you
and I'll explain why in a moment.
So first, when you are conflict averse, there's often a fear
that things will escalate and become intense and there will
either be a sense of like pressure or something will go
wrong or something bad will happen.
And it it's not even necessarily like a super logical thought,
right? It's it's just this vague sense
of if this escalates, something bad will happen.
The other time it kind of can come up is if you want to share
something in a meeting but you feel like you need to have a
perfect answer. You're afraid of being wrong or
you feel like I can't really speak up until my idea is really
watertight and really solid and unassailable.
And so you'll kind of hold back and really delay participating
because of this fear of being seen as wrong or being seen as,
like, in some bad light. Because your idea or the thing
that you have to say is somehow not perfect or is somehow open
to attack. Like, that's kind of the feeling
that is happening underneath. And so when you're in that
situation and there's somebody saying something and you have
something else like you're not sure that you're totally on
board with that, you might not say, hey, I disagree with that
because that might feel really direct.
It might feel very confronting, right?
If you tell someone, hey, I disagree, then you're kind of
setting yourself up in opposition to them.
And there's a chance that they will then want to argue with you
about why their idea or perspective is correct and why
yours is wrong. And now we're not even, you
know, talking about the idea. And now we're kind of locked in
this power dynamic of who is right and who is wrong.
And it can get a little bit sideways pretty quickly.
And so you might not say, I disagree, you know, and to be
clear, sometimes that is a great way to respond, right?
Just be really direct, really relaxed, really straightforward.
I I disagree with that. But when you are very conflict
averse, if you are working with people who are conflict averse,
that's going to be a really hard thing to say.
There's going to be a lot of fear and resistance and
reluctance that you'll need to overcome.
So as an alternative, I have a couple ideas.
One is the strategy of yes and yes, and is something you might
have heard about before. It's a really popular concept,
and it comes from the world of improv theater.
So improvisation is this idea that whatever is happening in
the scene, you're just going to go with it.
You're going to say yes. And so if you're improving a
scene and someone walks in and you say, why were you late?
I was, you know, expecting you an hour ago.
The person in the scene is not going to argue with you about it
or correct you. Instead, they're going to say
yes. I was planning to be here an
hour ago, but I got waylaid by a rogue rhinoceros.
The zoo had a security breach and the rhinoceros is and the
giraffes and the, you know, crocodiles got loose and I had
to round them. OK, so if you're in in improv,
the idea of yes and is that there's never a need to like,
correct or challenge anything. Instead, we want to contribute.
We want to add to it. So in your work situation, what
that sounds like is somebody shares an idea or they say
something and you can say okay, yes and and then you simply add
to it. So yes.
And we might also consider XY&Z or yes.
And I can see, you know, a certain, a certain way that that
might not always work out, right.
So rather than say, I think that's a terrible idea, I
disagree. You might say okay, yes.
And I can see some ways that that might not always, that
might not always work out for us.
Or I can see some some other ways that that we could do
things differently. So that's the first one is yes.
And you're not spending any time going against the thing you're
not correcting. You're not explaining why you
disagree with that point. Instead, you're contributing
your idea, your perspective by simly saying yes.
And the other part of that is that it tends to help create a
feeling of connection. We want to be really mindful
that when we're communicating, it's not just about the words we
use, it's also about the effect that those words have.
And if our intention is to create more connection, to
foster more safety, a sense of, hey, I am with you, it's okay to
have lots of different ideas then the yes and is a wonderful
way to do that. The disagreement or the no.
But or I, you know, I think you're wrong about that.
All of a sudden it sets us up in this dynamic of opposition where
things can start to feel like conflict or attack or now we
have to go to battle about the rightness or the wrongness of
the thing, which isn't necessarily the conversation or
the relationship that we want to be in.
So that's your first option is the idea of yes.
And my second idea for you is you get to say things like I see
it differently. I love this one.
It's so simple. I see it differently or I see
things differently. Because now what you're really
talking about is your perspective.
And what's so cool is you can have 10 people in a room all
discussing a topic, and each person could have a different
perspective and they could all have something valuable to
offer. Every perspective can be
valuable, even when it's different.
Sometimes the reason perspective is valuable is because it's
different is because it's not in full agreement, but instead is
illuminating. A different aspect is
contributing at like a different, you know, kind of
information or or knowledge, a different way of seeing things.
And so when you say I see it differently, it allows you to
offer your perspective without carrying a message of you're
wrong or you have a bad idea, right.
As humans, we get so defensive so quickly.
Whenever we sense that somebody is saying you're wrong or you
have a bad idea or your approach is not, is not good, it feels
like, you know, disrespect. It feels like not being seen.
It feels like being made small. And we can kind of skip all of
that by simply taking this approach.
If I have something I want to add, I have a perspective I want
to add. I see things differently.
I see it differently. Let me share how I see things
because this could be interesting.
It could be valuable, right? And the nice thing too is that
we're also not getting into the place of right.
Like I'm right. Listen to me.
It's more like I have a perspective and it will be
valuable and I want to offer this value to the conversation
or to the group. There's not a lot of attachment
in it. So similar to that, that I see
it differently. This additional way of saying
it, the language I want to offer you is I have another
perspective or I want to offer a different perspective.
I have another perspective because again, it's about the
way that you see things. And this is also so valuable,
especially when you are not the person who has 100% perfect
information, which is pretty much always, but especially when
you rise in leadership. Part of your job is actually to
not know everything, but to surround yourself with people of
different expertise. And part of your job is to hear
the perspectives of others. So you can weigh kind of the the
aggregate of what does it all mean.
So the sales team has one perspective, the engineering
team has a different perspective, the design team has
another perspective, the customer service team has a
different perspective. And when you are in that
leadership role, part of your job is to hear what are all of
these different perspectives, especially when they're not the
same because there are things that will you know you'll start
to make decisions about and things you'll start to
understand differently when you're taking that position.
So having different perspectives becomes important and becomes
valuable. And so by using that language of
I have another perspective to offer that can be a way of
contributing your thoughts without feeling like it has to
be perfect or it has to be better than everyone else's.
It starts to get you out of the comparison and the stress and
the anxiety of is this good enough?
And instead you're simply kind of acknowledging like there's
something I'm seeing. I have another perspective.
I want to offer it to the room now when you are facilitating a
meeting. OK, so this was the situation
where let's say that you wanted to share an idea.
This is what you do, right? Yes.
And I see it differently. I have another perspective, but
there will also be times when you are in a meeting and you
notice there might be some voices that tend to dominate the
conversation and you might want to hear what other people think.
You might be curious about the quiet voices.
And if you're thinking about how do I create more space for the
folks who have been a little bit reserved and how do I do that
without putting someone directly on the spot?
Like saying, hey, you, you've been really quiet, what do you
think? Right.
Like, not necessarily that effective.
Like that person might just say what?
No. Like go to somebody else.
I passed. So how can you do that?
Here's a thought that I want to offer.
You can simply ask the room. Are there any other perspectives
that we should consider? Does anyone see things
differently that you know we haven't heard from yet?
Is there a way of looking at this that we haven't discussed
yet? By asking for people's
perspectives, by asking for how others see this, you can create
the space to make it easier for other voices to feel invited.
And so when you think of yourself as a facilitator, and I
know I've talked about this in in a prior episode, but
sometimes the job of a manager, I like to think of this as your
job is to facilitate things. Your job is to make it easier
for your team to do their work. Your job is to make it easier
for you know the the goals to be met by the way that you manage
and work with people. Like your job is to make your
boss's life easier. Sometimes we wear the
facilitator hat, so one of the ways you can facilitate the
participation of some quieter voices is to simply ask for
additional perspectives. Is there a way that we could be
looking at this that we haven't yet?
And this is also kind of how we tap into the brilliance of
different people, different perspectives, by simply asking.
And it will also help invite the, you know, the quiet folks
to speak up when the folks who feel really, really excited
about their ideas, right, have been talking for a while.
It gives a little bit of a shift in that dynamic.
And it's really, really subtle, but it can be so effective and
it can feel so natural. Not like, OK, now I'm going to
do this technique. Like, it's really subtle, but it
can be super effective. So that's what I wanted you to
think about. You know, as a manager, you're a
human. And so there are times when you
might feel a little uncertain of how to participate and
contribute and your self doubt might flare up and you might
wonder, like, do I even have anything of value to add?
Remember, you always have perspective, and your
perspective is valuable, maybe even in ways that you don't
understand because sometimes we we discount our own perspective
because it seems obvious. So this is something you can
think about, right? The yes, and I see it
differently. I have another perspective I
want to add. And then when you are in the
role of facilitating conversation or leading a
meeting, you can use these same language frameworks to invite an
even richer conversation and to invite participation of folks
who might be a little bit more reserved or a little more
hesitant. The nice thing too with this
approach is it can also be effective when it's not your
meeting. So sometimes when you're not the
lead, it can feel a little uncomfortable.
Like, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I found that
this is an approach that can be used in lots of situations.
Even if you're not the one who is leading the meeting, you can
always kind of find a moment, well, in the conversation where
you say, you know, I'm really curious to know, are there other
perspectives we haven't considered that we should be
talking about while we're on this topic?
I'm wondering if anyone else has a perspective or if if they're
seeing things maybe in a slightly different way that
might add to our conversation today.
Really subtle, but it can be so effective.
So that is what I wanted to offer to you today.
If you want to come work with me, I'm taking new clients, go
to the show notes, book a consult so we can talk about
what's going on, what your goals are and what it looks like for
us to work together to help you create the changes that you're
looking for in your career, your work, it it all.
We'll talk about all of it. So that's in the show notes.
Go there. If you want to know more about
the next time I offer the group program, go to my website,
kimnichol.com. Go to the new managers page and
you'll find a little more information about that and get
on my mailing list so that you know the next time it is offered
and you can join. Thanks so much for listening.
I'll see you next time. When you're more effective at
work, you're happier in your life, and when you're happier in
your life, you're more effective at work.
I can help. Go to my website, kimnicol.com
and sign up for a coaching consult.
It can get better.