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Welcome to the new Manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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This week. 
I have attended a couple of very

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interesting events around AI. 
That's not going to be the focus

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of our conversation today. 
But the reason I mention it is 

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because as I'm continuing to 
learn about what it means for 

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the workplace and what it means 
for different industries, 

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there's a lot. 
Like, there's so much. 

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There's so much to learn. 
There's so much happening, and I

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feel like I'm still at the stage
where I'm trying to understand 

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the language with which people 
talk about it and how to 

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structure my own thinking 
because I find it to be a topic 

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that, you know, the language 
around it is still very 

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imprecise. 
Like people will say, do you use

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AI at work? 
And my initial thought is, no, I

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don't, I very, I, I really 
don't, I don't intentionally say

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I will use AI for this. 
But when I think about it, I 

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think, well, actually that's not
correct. 

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Because for example, I use Zoom 
for, you know, for all of my 

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video calls with my clients and 
also with my classes that I 

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teach. 
And in Zoom, there is a tool 

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that allows you to generate an 
AI summary of the conversation 

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or the meeting. 
And I don't use this very often 

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right now, but in the past I 
have because sometimes my 

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clients will ask, hey, can we 
use that? 

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NA, that AI enabled tool to 
generate a summary. 

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And even though you know it's 
not 100% precise, it's still, it

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can still be a helpful tool to 
document some of the high level 

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topics that we talked about. 
So there have been times when I 

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have used this tool that is AI 
enabled, but because of the way 

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that it's integrated into a tool
that I'm already using, I 

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sometimes don't even realize or 
think about it. 

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And interestingly enough, I was 
at my nephew's birthday party 

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over the weekend. 
He just turned 8. 

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So it was a really big deal and 
a great reason to get together 

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with family. 
And the topic of AI came up. 

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And in my family, there are, you
know, I have family members who 

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are teachers. 
So the conversation around what 

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does that mean for education and
especially for kids, you know, 

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elementary school kids and 
middle school kids. 

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And also, I was very surprised 
to learn that my mom uses AI 

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quite regularly. 
And she uses a summary tool in 

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the course of her work to, you 
know, go through all of the 

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notes and all of the transcripts
of the the work that she does. 

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And then it generates a summary 
of here are all of the things 

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that were discussed. 
And I thought that was quite 

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interesting. 
So I'm continuing to learn and 

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just kind of keep my eyes and 
ears open. 

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I found a really interesting 
conversation at the intersection

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of entrepreneurialism, AI and 
climate and sustainability. 

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And we had SF Climate Week not 
that long ago. 

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So there were lots of 
conversations around, you know, 

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around climate and 
sustainability. 

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And that in and of itself is a 
really big, big topic. 

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But I went to this meet up the 
other night because I was 

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curious to find out what is the 
conversation that's happening, 

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especially in the workplace and 
what that means. 

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And, you know, I ended up having
some really great conversations 

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with, you know, someone who 
really cares about soil and the 

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soil Biome and regenerative 
agriculture and different 

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implications around like, what 
does AI mean for that? 

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And I talked with somebody else 
who knows a lot about 

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bioplastics and different 
sources of materials through 

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which we can create, you know, 
plastics, but not using 

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petroleum based materials. 
But I was like, oh, like, like 

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the fork I'm using right now 
that is like a, you know, 

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compostable fork. 
So I mean, just to say that it 

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is such a a big topic and it 
seems to be a little bit 

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everywhere right now. 
So if you are also feeling kind 

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of overwhelmed, I think you're 
in good company and it's OK. 

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I'm, you know, we're going to 
kind of learn and find our way 

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through this all at our own 
pace. 

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And I think that's, you know, 
that's just the best way to go 

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about it. 
So I wanted to share an update 

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on my, you know, my AI learning 
journey. 

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And then today, the topic I 
wanted to really focus on with 

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you is the conversation around 
feedback and performance 

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reviews. 
And in your course of being a 

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manager, you're going to do 
both. 

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But I wanted to pause and really
talk about these two separately 

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because I think sometimes the 
language around feedback and 

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performance reviews can be 
imprecise and very blurry. 

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And I, you know, I recently 
taught my class, you know, this 

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module and it made me think 
that, oh, I should bring some 

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move this to you as well because
it's, it's really helpful in 

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the, in both the day-to-day, but
also when you think about the 

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course of the year in your role 
as a manager, what does it mean 

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for you to be thinking about 
feedback and to be thinking 

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about performance reviews, how 
those two things are separate 

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and how they go together. 
So let's get into it. 

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So with feedback, think of it as
the overall category and then 

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performance reviews happen as 
one part of that. 

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With feedback, you're going to 
give feedback in a wide range of

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situations and relationships. 
You can give feedback, of 

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course, to the people that 
report up to you. 

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You might be giving feedback up 
the chain to your manager or 

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even to your skip level. 
You might be giving feedback to 

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your colleagues or other 
managers, directors and leaders,

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other people that you know, they
don't report to you, but you 

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still have a working 
relationship with them. 

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So there are very wide range of 
situations where you will use 

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feedback as a, you know, kind of
specific category of 

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communication. 
You're also going to use 

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feedback generally for different
purposes. 

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You might use it to influence or
to shape a relationship. 

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You might use it to influence or
shape up like a product, a 

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process or an outcome. 
There are different reasons why 

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you might want to give feedback.
Sometimes you'll give feedback 

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just to establish a record of 
having reviewed something you 

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know, participated in the 
conversation. 

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Like there are different 
reasons, different purposes for 

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why you would give feedback. 
And you can think of it as a 

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tool for influencing behavior, 
shaping relationships, 

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facilitating change, and also 
for learning and for getting 

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better. 
So feedback, you might be, it 

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might be something that you 
request in order for you to 

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learn and to get better at 
something. 

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Or it might be something that 
you offer as a, you know, a way 

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of, of learning like, OK, we 
learned this, this is the 

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feedback we received. 
So as you know, a team or as an 

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organization, we want to work to
get better in this way. 

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And importantly, no matter what 
your title is, you can give 

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feedback. 
The way you give it might differ

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depending on the power dynamic 
and the relationship that's in 

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place. 
But you can give your feedback, 

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you know, no matter what, what 
your title or position, you can 

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give feedback, request it. 
You can also receive feedback 

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from all kinds of directions no 
matter what. 

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So that's feedback. 
Now, over here, we have 

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performance reviews, which is 
sort of a very specific purpose 

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in an organization. 
And #1 realize that every 

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organization handles performance
reviews a little bit 

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differently. 
In some organizations, it's 

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going to be a very formal 
process. 

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In others, it might be a little 
bit more ad hoc. 

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And honestly, every organization
is different. 

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So you want to be curious and 
understand how does this 

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organization do performance 
reviews? 

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Like are there specific 
platforms or tools for that? 

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Is there a specific timeline or 
timing for that? 

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So get curious about that part. 
Your performance review is 

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something that will happen 
between a manager and a direct 

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report. 
The purpose of the performance 

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review is to evaluate the 
performance of the person 

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against a known standard or 
expectation. 

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This part is really important 
because it can be overlooked or 

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it can get a little bit fuzzy as
the course of the year goes by. 

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Because if we're not clear about
what is the standard to which 

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someone will be evaluated, then 
it can feel very arbitrary or 

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very unfair about, you know, 
you're giving me this feedback 

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and saying I'm, you know, not 
performing well, but according 

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to my standard, I am. 
And if there was no agreed upon 

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standard or expectation in 
place, then it is really tricky 

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to give useful feedback. 
So at some point you want to be 

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clear that, you know, are we on 
the same page and are we in 

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agreement about what is the 
known standard to which someone 

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will be evaluated? 
Is there clarity and agreement 

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about what the expectations are 
for what this person will be 

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performing at? 
With performance reviews also, 

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you know, they shouldn't be a 
surprise and they shouldn't be a

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surprise because feedback has 
been happening along the way. 

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It shouldn't be a surprise if 
someone gets reviewed and marked

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at, you know, performing below 
expectations. 

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They should have a good sense of
the ballpark of where they're 

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going to land because you've 
been giving feedback along the 

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way. 
And that means both telling them

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what they're doing well, helping
them to course correct. 

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Or if they think they're doing 
great and you're thinking, oh, 

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this is not what we expected, 
have that conversation early so 

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they have a chance to correct. 
We don't want to ambush or 

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surprise people with their 
performance reviews. 

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Now, importantly, performance 
reviews are very often tied to 

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compensation and advancement. 
So that's raises, bonuses, 

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promotions. 
Those are very personal and real

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consequences. 
Anytime we're talking about 

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someone's livelihood, what 
they're getting paid, whether 

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they're going to get a bonus or 
get a promotion to the next 

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level. 
That's where performance reviews

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carry a lot more weight and have
a lot more importance, where 

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feedback doesn't necessarily tie
directly to that. 

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With performance reviews, 
because we are specifically 

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evaluating the performance that 
someone is giving, they'll tie 

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into these more financial 
consequences. 

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And if someone has been 
struggling or they haven't been 

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performing to the level that's 
been agreed upon and expected, 

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that's where it could also turn 
into or be connected to a 

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performance improvement plan or 
a PIP as it's often called in 

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the HR space. 
And I, you know, that might vary

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a little bit country to country 
or industry to industry. 

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In the US, I've heard it 
primarily referred to as a PIP 

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and that's, you know, a 
performance improvement plan 

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when someone is not performing 
well. 

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And as an organization, the 
thought maybe we might need to 

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manage this person out, but we 
can't simply fire them without 

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having documented that they are 
aware that their performance is 

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below standard. 
We have to give them a chance. 

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We have to help support them in 
raising their performance. 

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A PIP is a formal tool or 
process where HR, your human 

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resources team will typically be
involved in structuring that and

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there's usually timelines and 
set goals or milestones in order

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to see can this person raise 
their performance level. 

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So again, that's something that 
falls under the category with 

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our performance reviews, that's 
really important. 

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And also with performance 
reviews, these are typically 

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going to be a formal process 
that everyone in the 

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organization goes through at the
same time. 

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So there's very often a 
performance review season where 

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everyone in the organization is 
going to be doing the 

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performance reviews, you know, 
for their team and maybe for 

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yourself. 
With a lot of organizations, 

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there is a self-assessment as 
well where you would say, OK, 

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this is what I said I would 
accomplish within this time 

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period. 
Here's how I was successful or 

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not, this is what happened. 
And then that self review might 

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get compared to the managers 
assessment and say, Yep, like 

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agree or no, like this is what I
observed or this is the evidence

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that I saw and I've come to a 
different conclusion. 

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So there's typically a formal 
process that everyone in the 

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organization goes through around
the same time. 

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And also with that formality, 
with performance reviews, your 

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organization will typically have
a policy regarding 

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documentation, what is 
documented, how is it 

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documented, where is it 
documented? 

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And this may stay kind of with 
that employee's, you know, 

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personnel record over the time 
that they've been with that 

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organization. 
So there's something that's a 

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little bit more lasting and 
around the documentation aspect 

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that can then of course come 
into play around promotions. 

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Or if someone says, look, I've 
had this long record of 

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performing at a very high level 
and yet I continue to not be 

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promoted or I continue to not 
receive a pay that's 

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commensurate with the documented
performance that I have been 

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been doing over the last couple 
of years. 

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And, you know, every 
organization is different here. 

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And it's reminding me, you know,
this can get really tricky for a

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couple of reasons. 
One is you might work in an 

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organization where you have 
someone who has been performing 

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at a very high level 
consistently, but because the 

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organization might be very flat,
there's nowhere for them to go. 

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They might not have a clear path
of advancement and in that 

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situation, a couple things might
happen. 

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You might actually have the 
conversation with them and say 

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you're amazing. 
I wish there was a role that I 

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could promote you into, but 
there isn't. 

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So how can I support you and 
your professional growth in 

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another way? 
Or you might be able to go to 

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the leadership and say, look, 
I've got this incredibly high 

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performing person, here's a 
record of their achievement over

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time. 
My concern is that if we don't 

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have a role for them to grow 
into, they might leave. 

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They might look for something 
elsewhere. 

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And that might either, you know,
create the conversation of is 

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there another role that we can 
either create for them? 

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Does that? 
Is that something that makes 

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sense for us to do, or is it 
more like, yeah, we might have 

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to live with the fact that they 
might end up leaving? 

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Having those kinds of 
conversations are part of what 

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performance reviews can do. 
And again, like some 

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organizations have very clear 
leveling and very clear 

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definitions and expectations of 
what's required at each level. 

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Some organizations, especially 
if you are in startup mode where

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things are very fluid and 
there's not as much rigidity or 

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formal declaration about levels,
there might be more 

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opportunities in that case to 
say, yeah, let's actually create

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a new role for this person 
because it makes sense given 

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their track record, given what 
the organization needs. 

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We can now establish this new 
role of this new level. 

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So something to think about, You
know, as we're recording this, 

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we're now coming into the month 
of May. 

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For a lot of your 
organization's, your fiscal year

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is going to change in July. 
So you might be moving towards 

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performance reviews if that's 
something that happens in your 

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organization kind of mid year or
even for some organizations they

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do, you know, a formal 
performance review at mid year 

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and at year end. 
So be thinking about some of 

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these these elements, right? 
The difference between feedback,

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which happens more frequently 
and then performance reviews 

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that happen within a more formal
timeline and a more formal 

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process. 
You want to be aware of how 

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those things work together so 
that you can also be keeping 

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notes and keeping track of, you 
know, how people are doing so 

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that when you get to that formal
performance review stage, you're

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not trying to remember like, oh,
what did they do this year? 

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I don't remember. 
I'm sure it was good, but I 

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actually can't remember anything
specific. 

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We want to start creating some 
ways for it to be easy for you 

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to fill out those performance 
reviews. 

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So be curious about the process.
Be curious about the timing, the

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timeline, the tools, and think 
in terms of what is the feedback

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you want to be giving overtime 
so that it doesn't become a huge

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surprise when people are getting
their performance reviews. 

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This is it as a topic that is 
honestly, it's one of the most 

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challenging ones for me to 
compress into my class because 

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there's actually a lot that can 
be said to that. 

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But hopefully this will give you
some clarity of thought just as 

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you're, you know, starting to 
organize your own thinking about

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what kinds of things are in your
awareness and on your landscape 

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as you're thinking about what is
the feedback that you need to be

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00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,480
giving? 
What, what is the feedback 

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you're avoiding giving is also a
really good question. 

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What is the feedback you want to
be receiving? 

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Maybe the feedback that you're 
not asking for. 

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And then thinking about 
performance review. 

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You know, when you're a manager 
and you're kind of stepping into

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that leadership role, it's such 
a different kind of experience 

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when you're the one initiating 
and making decisions about 

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people's compensation, which 
sometimes happens too in the 

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process of doing performance 
reviews. 

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So use this to start thinking, 
to get curious, to kind of take 

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a step back and ask like, is 
there anything that I need to 

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put in place now that will help 
me when I get to that stage and 

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that process? 
So that's what I wanted to share

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with you today. 
And if you want to learn more 

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00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,400
than I encourage you to sign up 
for my next course on 

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00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,680
communication strategies for 
managers. 

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You'll find links for that in 
the show notes. 

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It's a six week course and we 
have different specific topics 

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each week. 
All of them are related to 

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foundational skills that you 
will need to be more effective 

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working with different people, 
working with, you know, change 

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00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,160
and uncertainty in your 
organization. 

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And what I found is when you 
have more clarity about those 

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things, about those 
fundamentals, it actually allows

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00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,160
the stress to come down because 
now you feel like you've got a 

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plan. 
And one of the things I love is 

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I really love supporting 
managers because I feel like, 

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00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,040
you know, there's a lot on your 
shoulders and often not a lot of

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00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,960
help. 
So come and you know, you can 

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00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,000
get help and support in that 
way. 

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00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,320
Or if you want to work with me 
one-on-one, that's an option to 

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00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,600
go to my website, kimnickel.com 
and we can set up time to talk 

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00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,560
about your specific goals and 
situation and how coaching can 

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00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,000
help. 
I will also add that I love it 

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00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,160
when my clients and students are
able to get their organization 

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00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,600
to cover the cost of their 
learning and development. 

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00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,720
So if that's something that you 
want to learn more about, I've 

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00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,560
got a couple episodes already 
about that topic, but that's 

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00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,960
something I can also work with 
you individually on. 

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00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,000
It's usually just a very quick 
call and it doesn't take a lot 

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,720
to actually get the wheels 
turning and realize, oh, this is

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00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,440
how I can present it in a 
compelling way to get my work to

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00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,240
say, yes, that's a great idea. 
We'd love to cover the cost of 

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00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,320
that professional development 
for you. 

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00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,560
So all to say, I'm really glad 
you're here. 

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00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,080
Being a manager, it's a really 
important job and it's not 

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00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,480
always easy. 
So thank you for being here. 

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00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,760
Thank you for listening. 
And oh, if you like this 

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00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,320
podcast, please leave a rating 
or a review. 

350
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,360
It means a lot to me and it 
actually helps the show. 

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00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,760
So again, thank you so much for 
listening. 

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00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,960
I'm glad that you're here and I 
will talk to you next time. 

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When you're more effective at 
work, you're happier in your 

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00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,720
life, and when you're happier in
your life, you're more effective

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00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,520
at work. 
I can help. 

356
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 
and sign up for a coaching 

357
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,520
consult. 
It can get better.