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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I hope you're doing well and I 
hope you're having a good day. 

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I'm really glad that you're here
because today I want to talk 

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with you about communication 
skills. 

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And there are three different 
parts to this episode today. 

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They all fit together, I think 
of it like facets on a jewel. 

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So, we'll turn this Jewel over a
few different ways to look at 

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these different. 
Different facets but they all 

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connect. 
So around communication 

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specifically, we'll talk about 
public speaking. 

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So this is the kind of 
communication you do using your 

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voice to speak to other people 
will set aside for the moment. 

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The communication we do through 
written language, either emails 

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or, you know, messaging through 
teams or slack and we're just 

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looking at the physical With 
your body communication that we 

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do. 
We'll also talk about that in 

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the context of giving feedback 
because in the workplace giving 

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feedback is something you will 
do as a manager. 

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It's often a specific 
requirement. 

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Whether you do that informally 
to Simply get work done or 

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whether you're thinking in the 
context of a formal review, 

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process giving feedback is 
something you will do. 

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Sometimes you will do that using
your actual voice in real time. 

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Looking at another person, which
is a whole challenge in, and of 

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itself, and kind of one of the 
themes to all of this is the 

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question of how, how do I do 
this? 

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And there's a lot, we need to 
talk about with respect to that 

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question. 
So, let me start by sharing some

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context with you on my Public 
speaking Journey. 

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When I was a kid, I was a shy 
kid. 

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I was quiet. 
I was introverted. 

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I was not a very, you know, 
extroverted, you know, kid. 

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I was very quiet kid. 
And yet whenever there was a 

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situation where we had to speak 
in front of the class, we had to

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read a story or we had to 
deliver a presentation, I always

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raised my hand to go first. 
And this surprised some of my 

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teachers, they did not expect 
the quiet kid to want to raise 

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her hand to go, first to speak 
in front of the class. 

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But I had a very good reason for
doing this. 

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It was because I wanted to be in
control of this uncomfortable 

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experience. 
What I found was that if I was 

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waiting to be called on my 
anxiety, grew and I became more 

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and more uncomfortable, Able and
I felt so nervous like I could 

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be literally shaking and I hated
that feeling. 

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And what I learned was if I 
wrote If I raised my hand and I 

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went first then it would be over
and I could relax for the rest 

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of the time that feeling of 
uncertainty of not knowing when 

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I would be called on was for me 
the worst feeling the other 

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thing that happened if I waited 
Not only did I have the anxiety 

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of not knowing when I would be 
called on, but I would have to 

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watch the other kids deliver 
their story or or deliver their 

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presentation, and then I would 
start to compare myself and I 

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would compare myself to the kids
who are really good and think, 

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oh my gosh, I'm not going to be 
as good as them. 

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You know, what if I stumble on 
my words? 

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What if I'm not funny, what if 
their story is just better than 

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mine, so I would go into all 
this comparison. 

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And and that would make me feel 
bad. 

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Or to the kids that really 
struggled, I would completely 

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identify with them and I would 
think, oh no, I will also do a 

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bad job and then I'll feel as 
bad as I feel for them right 

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now. 
And so either way it was just 

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worse for me. 
So I learned early on even 

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though I was very reserved, very
quiet, kind of kept to myself, 

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very introverted kid, I would 
raise my hand to go first. 

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I could control the situation, I
would eliminate all of the 

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comparing and then I could just 
enjoy the rest of the time. 

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And I mentioned this because you
know many many years later I 

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became a teacher I became a 
coach and I would have been 

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spent a lot of time like years 
of my work life. 

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In this role of coaching and 
facilitating large groups and 

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doing it in a very introverted. 
A Third Way, meaning doing it 

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being very grounded, very calm, 
wanting to shape the experience 

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and take control, so that it 
becomes a really useful and 

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valuable time for everybody. 
And what I would find is a lot 

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of my students initially would 
be surprised that I identify as 

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an introvert because I'm so 
comfortable in front of people, 

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but I would just remind them. 
Well, when you know that you are

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the one running this event. 
You can feel a lot more relaxed 

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because you're not the one 
getting called on and not 

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knowing. 
When you're going to be asked to

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speak, I have a lot more 
nervousness when I'm in a 

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situation that I am not 
facilitating or that I am not 

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the lead person in because it 
introduces all of this 

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uncertainty. 
So if you are a person who has 

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felt a lot of anxiety around 
public speaking, I wanted to 

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offer this as as a potential way
to think about it, that it might

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be around. 
Where do you find your ability 

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to exert control over an 
uncomfortable situation? 

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And it's possible to be an 
introvert and to also be a very 

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effective speaker, when you 
know, how to approach the 

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situation in a way that makes it
easiest for you. 

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And as a manager, if you are 
leading a meeting it is so 

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helpful to understand that some 
of the folks on that call might 

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be introverts and they might 
hate being in a situation where 

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they don't know when they will 
be asked to speak, they can 

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create so much anxiety and 
especially if you add the 

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additional layer of someone 
who's brand-new to an 

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organization or someone who is 
multilingual, and English might 

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not be their first language, or 
it, Not be there, most 

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comfortable language and so it 
can add additional stress or 

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pressure. 
Just having this in mind. 

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Can help you to make decisions 
around. 

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How am I going to run this 
meeting. 

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So it's not complete silence in 
the room. 

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Or I don't have certain people, 
taking control, and doing all of

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the talking and never hearing 
from other people in the room. 

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So that ended up going off in a 
more facilitative Direction than

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I expected when I started 
talking about this, but there 

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you go, added notes. 
So anyways, so public speaking, 

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even if you're a person who is 
uncomfortable about it, that's 

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okay. 
Also, it's often part of the job

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as you rise into leadership 
roles and as you manage people, 

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you'll be speaking using your 
voice conveying information. 

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Making a request giving bad news
facilitating a decision, getting

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information from people. 
There are so many situations 

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when you will need to speak 
using your voice and a couple of

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things I want to give you tips 
on. 

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So for three years right up 
until the pandemic, most of my 

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work was doing. 
Matej Tada workshops and 

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Communications coaching 
specifically on public speaking 

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and the three, you know, the 
core elements to this skill. 

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Our number one understanding, 
there's a difference between 

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what you say. 
That's the words that are going 

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to come out of your mouth and 
how you say it, two separate 

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skills. 
What am I going to say? 

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And then, how am I going to say 
it? 

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The, how is going to be about 
the use of your voice? 

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That means your volume, your 
tone, your speed, some of us are

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naturally fast talkers. 
Some of us naturally speak more 

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slowly all of us tend to speak 
faster when we feel nervous or 

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under pressure and also the how 
that we speak is also about the 

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volume. 
So are we speaking very loud or 

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are we speaking in a softer 
voice? 

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And also, you know, what is the,
the body language that were 

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conveying your message with not 
just the gestures but also your 

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facial expressions and I 
mentioned that not because you 

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ever want to micromanage 
yourself in that way. 

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But it's really helpful. 
When you think about, when 

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you're communicating the words, 
you use are really only a small 

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part of that. 
There is all of this. 

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Other part of how you 
communicate which is about 

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conveying information through 
your body language or 

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Expressions, but also the way 
you deliver it, with your voice,

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with your volume, with your 
speed, with your tone. 

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And one of the things that makes
this so difficult for people to 

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learn and implement, it has 
nothing to do with the 

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technique. 
And this was what I think was so

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interesting. 
Is that The actual technique is 

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really simple and I taught this 
for three solid years. 

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I taught this to brand new 
college graduates. 

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And their very first job after 
school, I taught the same exact 

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techniques to, you know, the 
chief technology officer of a 

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publicly traded organization 
with global employees 

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everywhere. 
Like, and the problems the 

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challenges, Has are the exact 
same for both people. 

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It has nothing to do with 
understanding the technique. 

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It's all about the question of 
authenticity. 

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How do I do this in a way that 
feels authentic to me, it's all 

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around how you're thinking about
yourself whether you're thinking

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oh I just can't do that. 
That's not like me or whether 

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you're thinking how can I do 
this to let more of my authentic

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Voice come through? 
It's not about using the Rules 

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are not it's about understanding
your own mindset because that is

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what will either cause you to 
use the tool or to abandon it 

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and kind of spin on the hamster 
wheel of. 

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But I don't know how, I don't 
know how, I don't know how. 

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And as a coach it was 
fascinating for me because I 

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would think but I just told you 
how you pause. 

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Oh, but I don't know how to 
pause him. 

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I've always been a fast talker 
and so, you know, for me so much

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of my work as a coach was Is 
learning how to connect, you 

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know, someone with where they 
were, and what their specific 

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Challenge and obstacle was. 
So they could then use the 

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technique in a way that was 
genuine for them. 

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And my goal is a coach and this 
was something it was so 

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interesting. 
I would always have to explain 

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this at the beginning. 
Was my goal is not to make you 

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like me. 
I don't want you to speak the 

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way that I speak. 
I want you to take these tools. 

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And use them in a way that will 
be effective for you and in a 

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way that will bring more of your
authentic personality and style 

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forward. 
And one of the things that was 

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really cool when I was doing 
really big trainings, like 60 

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people 100 people is that we 
would always have multiple 

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coaches. 
And so, then my students could 

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see very clearly that me and 
these four other coaches, we're 

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all using the same techniques. 
But we are using them in very 

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individual ways and I mentioned 
this in part because you know 

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it's still January. 
So we're still kind of in the 

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season of evaluation and making 
decisions about what what you 

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want to have be different for 
you this year and you might be 

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reading books or blogs or, you 
know, you're listening to 

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podcasts about how to do things 
differently. 

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And the place people always fall
down It is never around 

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understanding the concept or 
technique. 

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You understand the concept and 
technique and moreover, it's 

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really easy to learn what those 
Concepts and techniques are. 

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It is so easy to go on Google 
and ask how do I speak with 

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greater confidence or how do I 
give feedback, or how do I 

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manage this team better? 
It's really easy to get all of 

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that information. 
But the place, I'm, I just want 

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you to know. 
This is where you're going to 

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sort of fall back into your 
patterns, is because the 

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implementation part requires 
that, you update how you think 

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of yourself and you identify, 
what are those internal 

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obstacles that are keeping you 
from using and applying the 

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tools and the techniques 
everybody has them. 

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Everybody has them but 
understanding like what is your 

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current thought process? 
And what is it? 

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That is prohibiting you from 
adopting and implementing and 

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using a new idea that is really 
the thing you want to pay 

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attention to. 
Otherwise you end up with like 

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the stack of books and all the 
tools and all of the trainings 

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but you don't actually see the 
result of the change because 

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you're not incorporating. 
That so bringing it back to 

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public speaking and how you 
communicate information. 

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And first just being aware of 
what are the tools you have 

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available around your voice, 
whether you speak in a loud 

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voice or a soft voice, whether 
you're a fast talker or a slow 

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talker, whether you are, you 
know, have a lot of expression. 

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And the way that you convey 
information That's one piece of 

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it. 
The other piece of it, of 

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course, being the words that you
choose and when we're thinking 

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about feedback now for a moment,
so much of giving feedback you 

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will spend all your time 
thinking about what do I say? 

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What should I say? 
I don't even know how to talk to

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them about this because when you
think about what should I say, 

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You're really thinking a couple 
steps ahead thinking about the 

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other person. 
And wondering, what will they do

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when you say this? 
We're often trying to manage 

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like two or three steps ahead 
and when you're thinking about 

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how the other person will 
receive what you have to tell 

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them. 
There are two big forces. 

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One is fear, what are you 
afraid? 

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Will happen if you get it wrong.
Are you afraid they'll cry? 

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Are you afraid they'll shut 
down? 

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Are you afraid they'll yell at 
you? 

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Are you afraid? 
They'll escalated into an 

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argument? 
Are you afraid that they will 

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lie to you? 
Are you afraid that? 

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You know, they will say yes to 
you and then you'll really have 

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to step up. 
Like, what are you afraid of and

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what do you desire? 
What do you really want to have 

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happen as a result of this 
feedback? 

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What do you want to be 
different? 

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What do you I hope will change 
as a result of this 

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conversation. 
Maybe you hope that they'll 

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change their behavior. 
Maybe you hope that they'll give

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you feedback, maybe you'll hope 
that things will happen on time.

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Maybe you'll hope that like, 
what is the thing? 

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You hope will be different as a 
result of giving this feedback 

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and if you have ever stayed 
awake at night, playing, oh, 

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Over and over in your mind. 
I know I have to have this 

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conversation. 
I really don't want to. 

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Here's what I'm afraid will 
happen. 

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Here's what I really really want
to happen and wondering how do I

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say this in order to control the
other person in order to try and

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control that outcome? 
If you have been there I want 

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you to know that you are not 
alone. 

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That is a normal human thing 
especially as we're Rise in to 

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manager roles. 
And if you do not yet, have a 

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manager, I'm confident that you 
have had a similar experience, 

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thinking about giving feedback 
to your manager or to someone in

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a position of authority over 
you. 

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Because when we have those power
differentials, then we really do

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think carefully and in a very 
measured way, is this even worth

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it? 
To bring this up. 

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Or will I just keep my mouth 
shut and find a way to cope and 

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work around it. 
We all make those calculations 

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based on what we think will 
happen. 

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It's helpful to understand when 
you do this because also as you 

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manage others it may help. 
You understand that everyone you

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work with is also doing this 
too. 

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So giving feedback being aware 
that, there's what you say, 

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there's how you say it 
realizing, how much of your 

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energy is going into your 
thoughts, about what will 

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happen, how might this other 
person respond and it's also 

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going to go into your thoughts 
of what you think it makes it 

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mean about you. 
Like, if this person reacts with

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anger, what does that mean 
about? 

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You does that mean you're doing 
a bad job? 

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Maybe maybe not maybe responding
with anger, is a really 

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understandable response that 
this person is going to have the

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question then becomes. 
How are you going to be in that 

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situation? 
What do you want to do with 

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that? 
Next, what I find is that when 

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we are in the place of managing 
others, so much of it is about 

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relationships. 
And we create relationships 

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through the way that we 
communicate, which what is why 

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it becomes so important. 
And when we're speaking, while 

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we're doing that communication 
and I'll live setting, you can 

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feel a lot of pressure because 
once the words come out of your 

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mouth, you can't bring them back
and something will change and 

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one of the most scary and 
frustrating and things and 

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anxious Parts about it, is that 
that moment. 

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It of, you know, feeling like 
things are not in your control 

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that you cannot be in charge of 
what's going to happen with this

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other person and what they're 
going to say or how they're 

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going to respond. 
So that's a lot. 

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Let's bring it back to a couple 
of different points. 

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So number one, if you're an 
introvert, if speaking publicly 

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is something that is always 
created a lot of stress for you.

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A lot of anxiety. 
If you know, that's a place that

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you want to build more 
confidence in, I want to give 

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you a high five right now 
because that level of 

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self-awareness is fantastic and 
it's normal when you rise in in 

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levels of responsibility and 
Leadership. 

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You're often called upon to be 
more visible, which can create 

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pressure and stress and to do 
more verbal communication, which

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is a skill set in and of itself.
Not everyone is trained in it. 

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A lot of us have to figure it 
out as we go, but you can get 

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specific training in it. 
I trained people for years and 

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this and I bring it into my 
coaching when people want it. 

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Understand it's a thing you can 
learn and Can get better at 

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also. 
Realize it's a question of how 

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will you develop this skill to 
use it? 

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In a you kind of way you don't 
have to be a big performative. 

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00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:23,900
You know kind of motivational 
speaker style speaker in order 

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to be very effective. 
You can do it in a you kind of 

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way the techniques will help but
most importantly of all Paul, 

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it's your mindset. 
It's the way that you're 

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thinking, it's what your 
attention is on, its what you're

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thinking and how you're 
thinking. 

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And honestly, I have found that 
coaching is the number one place

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to do the work to develop your 
mindset. 

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So, one of the things that I 
love about the work I do, so 

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definitely reach out to me. 
If you want help with that, And 

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understanding that when you are 
giving feedback there is going 

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to be the mindset around like 
what is it that I want to say? 

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What do I want to be different 
understanding? 

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What am I afraid of and getting 
all that sorted out before you 

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00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,800
initiate the conversation so 
that you can be as prepared and 

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00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:30,300
grounded and to create a really 
valuable and effective feedback 

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conversation for you. 
And for this person, I think 

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that feedback is one of the 
skills that is sort of the one 

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that is most required and is 
really easily overlooked. 

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And I think, you know, it's not 
for a bad reason, but most of 

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most of the organization's, I've
worked with, don't give specific

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guidance on how to do feedback. 
Well, They just assume well 

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you've received feedback before 
so you should just know how to 

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give it or they'll offer like a 
do-it-yourself training to 

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follow along. 
But the place that you're going 

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00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,200
to get hung up on is not the 
specific tools, but how you 

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specifically apply it because of
your own anxiety, your own 

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self-doubt. 
The specific places where your 

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confidence is not there for you.
That's what? 

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00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,800
We want to understand so that 
you can address it and then show

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00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,200
up in your most confident 
effective self when you're 

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00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,000
giving feedback. 
So the question of how, you 

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know, how do I do this? 
How do I do it? 

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00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,000
Well, I just want to give you 
the little heads up that there's

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00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,600
the technical part, right? 
Like you'll know how it's easy 

355
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,400
to answer that the word, how you
just go on Google. 

356
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,200
You can Google how get all the 
videos. 

357
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,400
Get all of the the You know, 
answers that you could possibly 

358
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,800
ever want. 
But at some point you need to 

359
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:09,100
let go of that kind of how and 
you need to get into the, let me

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00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:14,500
apply this and let me find a way
to make this mine. 

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And what I love is that when you
make it yours and you begin to 

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connect, who you are as a person
with the tools and you start to 

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00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,700
use them in your own way. 
Way in your organization with 

364
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:38,600
the people and the specific 
people that you work with that 

365
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,600
becomes a little bit magical and
it is so useful for now and for 

366
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,000
the rest of your life, truly 
like for the rest of your 

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00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:55,100
career, as you start to unlock 
and you start to use these 

368
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:56,800
little, you know, these little 
tools. 

369
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One at a time, just like step by
step the smallest. 

370
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Changes create the biggest 
changes and that to me is pretty

371
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,600
exciting. 
So that is what I wanted to 

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00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:14,100
share with you today. 
Thoughts about public speaking 

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thoughts, about giving feedback,
understanding the how question 

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and also I guess this is where I
want to land and kind of leave 

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you at the end of the day with 
all of this. 

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Bring so much compassion to 
yourself. 

377
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:37,500
Forgive yourself for not knowing
how forgive yourself, where you 

378
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:40,800
feel like you struggle. 
You're not behind, you're 

379
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,600
exactly where you need to be for
right now, and you're always 

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00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,100
just one step from the next 
smallest thing that will make 

381
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:54,500
the biggest difference. 
So don't be hard on yourself. 

382
00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:58,600
It's okay. 
We all learn. 

383
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,900
We all have our own Learning 
Journey and a lot of us are 

384
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:05,000
being asked to learn things. 
We wouldn't have expected. 

385
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,800
We needed to know how to do in 
the particular circumstances and

386
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,200
conditions in which we are 
learning them. 

387
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So that is what I want to leave 
you with today. 

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I hope it's helpful and I hope 
you have an amazing rest of your

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00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,200
day. 
I'll talk to you later. 

390
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:28,900
Bye. 
Hey, before you go if you like 

391
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:34,200
this podcast, leave a review. 
Tell me why you listen and what 

392
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,500
has helped you? 
Thanks so much. 

393
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:37,700
I'll see you next time.