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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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I wanted to share as we get 
started. 

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Just too cute little story. 
I have a client, we work 

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together for most of this past 
year and we had our final 

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session about a week ago and on 
our last call her husband wanted

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to jump into the call. 
He just like popped his head in.

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He wanted to say hi and meet me 
and He just said, oh, I just 

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wanted to say thank you for all 
the work you've done with my 

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wife, this year, she's so much 
happier and we just I'm just so 

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appreciative of like the work, 
the two of you have been doing 

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and that just felt so good. 
You know, it's kind of just a 

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nice reminder that we are all 
connected to others in ways. 

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We don't always realize and in 
the workplace when we are 

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managing people. 
You know I think we sometimes 

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forget that. 
And the people we work with go 

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home, right? 
Like how they experience their 

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work, they bring that home, 
right? 

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So if they go home and I like, I
just really love where I work. 

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I really appreciate my manager. 
Even though things are hard, 

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sometimes I always feel like 
they have my back and I just, 

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you know, I just am lucky to 
work with great people. 

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Like that's such a nice feeling,
as opposed to if you've ever had

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a difficult time with your 
manager and you, Go home and you

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tell your partner, or your 
friend, or your family like I 

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don't know what my manager is 
doing. 

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It's so frustrating, you know, 
like we've probably all been on 

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both sides, it just for me 
really brings home the 

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significance of the work that 
you do, because it's not just 

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you, it really does Ripple out, 
and it affects communities and 

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families. 
And It right, I believe it, 

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truly ripples out and affects 
the bigger society that we are a

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part of. 
And so I don't know. 

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It just brings it all into 
perspective. 

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When I think sometimes work can 
feel very challenging in the 

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moment in the kind of 
nitty-gritty and the 

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personalities and all of the 
conflicts that arise, right, 

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because those will always 
happen. 

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But when we kind of pull back 
and take that higher level View 

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and reminding ourselves, That 
the work you do, has such a 

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beautiful ripple effect and 
sometimes you might not even see

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that. 
And the other thing too that I 

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wanted to share in the context 
of work that I was doing with my

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client, is also to highlight 
and, and remind you that 

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managing people. 
Yes, that's something we do in 

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the workplace but it also 
ripples out in other places. 

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So if you are active in a 
volunteer capacity, if you're 

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managing Volunteers people that 
don't officially report to you. 

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People that are donating their 
time. 

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That there's not a money 
exchange learning how to manage 

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people in that context. 
Also, super important super 

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valuable. 
If you are needing to manage 

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people in the context of your 
family, there might be you know 

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a wedding being planned, there 
might be different family 

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Dynamics Acts that are changing 
over time. 

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So many of the perspectives and 
tools that I help my clients to 

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develop the of wareness, that 
gives them self-confidence. 

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The communication skills that 
let them be more effective in 

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communicating with different 
personalities and having 

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difficult conversations and 
establishing clear, boundaries 

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and clear working agreements, 
the ability to You think 

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strategically and make decisions
from that lens versus making 

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decisions from a very reactive 
place, right? 

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Being able to be more responsive
rather than reactive in the 

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moment. 
All of that, even though so much

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of it is initially in the 
context of the workplace, all of

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those skills and abilities that 
you develop, you can and will 

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use them in other relationships 
to, which is kind of cool when 

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you think about it because it 
ends up making so many things so

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much better. 
So for today, I wanted to spend 

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some time talking with you about
presence and in the workplace 

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especially as you rise in 
leadership roles, you might 

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start to hear this term 
executive presence coming up 

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more and more. 
You might hear it. 

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As you know, we need you to have
more Executive presence we want 

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you to demonstrate executive 
presence and that can be kind of

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a weird thing to hear about, if 
you've never heard about it 

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before. 
And so I wanted to talk a little

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bit about how I think about it 
and how I help people with that.

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When you first start to manage 
people, you might not hear about

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executive presence but you might
get feedback. 

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We want you to be more assertive
or we want to see you. 

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Eight more or, or speak up more.
It's this sense of what is the 

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presence that you're bringing, 
and one of the reasons I think 

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that can be confusing, is it can
people often have a hard time. 

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Describing what that actually 
means. 

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So if you say okay I will have 
more executive presence. 

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What do you mean by that? 
The person who's giving you that

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feedback might not actually know
what they're asking for because 

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it's one of those qualities that
we And kind of sense and 

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perceive. 
But if you ask someone to really

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pin down, like give me a list of
what that means, sometimes 

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people have a hard time 
articulating it so here's some 

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thoughts. 
I want to offer to you about it.

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So when we talk executive 
presence, let's dial it back a 

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little bit and just talk about 
presents. 

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What does that mean? 
And I think about it as what is 

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the quality of being that you 
are bringing into the room 

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either a literal physical 
Physical room or a virtual room.

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What is the quality of being 
that you are bringing into the 

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room? 
And that's often going to be an 

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emotion or something related to 
a feeling. 

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So, for example, if you are 
feeling very insecure, really 

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uncertain, lots of self-doubt, 
not really safe because you're 

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afraid you're going to be judged
or you're going to mess up or 

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You're just feeling really 
insecure, you're going to bring 

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that quality of being that 
feeling of being insecure into 

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the room and people will sense, 
that something feels a little 

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off, right? 
And part of it is that you will 

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convey being insecure by. 
Not speaking up by staying 

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really quiet by keeping your 
body language, kind of guarded 

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and protective like the The way 
that you behave will be an 

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extension of how you are feeling
on the inside. 

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Whereas, if you are feeling very
self-assured or very confident 

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or very welcomed, like you just 
always feel welcomed whatever 

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room you walk into you think, 
the reason I'm here is because 

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I'm welcomed into this room. 
I totally belong, right? 

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You will then your behavior will
extend from that and it will 

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show up. 
And the expression on your face 

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on the quality of your voice on 
how often you speak up and the 

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things that you share. 
And so when people are talking 

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about, you know, what is the 
presence that you are bringing 

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their often trying to point to, 
what are the behaviors that 

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you're showing? 
But where are they coming from? 

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Are they coming from you? 
Feeling self-assured and 

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confident? 
Went and and capable of giving 

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direction and making decisions 
or are you coming with a feeling

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of being uncertain and insecure 
and self-doubting? 

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And, you know, needing to check 
like not not having the 

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authority to make a decision and
so for executive presence I 

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think of it as it's a role, 
right? 

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Like an executive is a role. 
It's a person who has the 

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authority to make decisions. 
And the responsibility to be 

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clear in the decision-making. 
And so when people are saying 

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you know we really want 
executive presence they're 

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really trying to convey a sense 
of. 

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Can you make us feel that you 
have the authority to make 

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decisions and that you feel 
confident and self-assured in 

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the decisions that you will 
make? 

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Like is that the energy that 
you're going to bring into the 

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room? 
And I think this is really 

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interesting because if you are a
person who is underrepresented 

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in your organization or in your 
industry and by 

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underrepresented, I mean when 
you like walk into the room 

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either it like a real room with 
other humans in it or a virtual 

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room like you get on. 
Into the zoom call and you look 

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at all the people around you if 
you have the thought, oh wow, 

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there are not a lot of people 
like me here. 

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If that is your thought, then 
that signals being 

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underrepresented and it can be 
across lots of different 

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dimensions, it might be around 
gender. 

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It might be around your ethnic 
background. 

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I'm like a very tall person but 
I'm also kind of ethnically 

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ambiguous. 
I'm half Filipino. 

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And I'm half-white, and people 
are sometimes uncertain kind of 

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my background. 
I'm really used to that. 

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So I'm very comfortable with it.
But it's interesting sometimes 

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being in different rooms and 
kind of feeling people kind of 

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do that. 
That's sweet and that 

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assessment. 
And sometimes it's like, oh, do 

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I do I code as a brown person in
this context. 

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Do I code as a white person in 
this context? 

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It kind of depends on the room 
that might that I'm in. 

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So, I have some times where I 
feel like, oh, yeah, I feel very

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welcome. 
Aimed and like, I fit in, and 

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then I have other times. 
When I feel like, oh, there's 

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nobody like me in this room. 
It can also be around 

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educational background or 
professional background, right? 

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So, it might be like, Oh, I'm 
the only one in this room. 

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Who did not come up into the 
industry in this, very 

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traditional path. 
Or it might be. 

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Oh, I'm the only one in this 
room. 

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Who is this age? 
You might look around the room 

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and think. 
Wow, I am the youngest person 

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here. 
Or you might think, oh my 

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goodness. 
I am the oldest person here, and

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it's actually weird when you 
switch and then it's actually 

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weird when you're used to 
feeling like the youngest and 

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then you feel like the oldest or
when you're used to feeling like

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the oldest and then you're in a 
new room and you think, oh my 

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goodness. 
I think I'm the youngest one 

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here. 
So anyway, that's what I'm 

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talking about. 
When I say, if you have felt 

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like an underrepresented person 
in your organization in your 

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industry, if you've ever thought
There's not a lot of people here

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that are like me, then this 
becomes really significant in 

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terms of presence because what 
we tend to do, when we are 

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underrepresented is we tend to 
try to scan the room, assess the

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room and then adapt to try to 
connect or to fit in. 

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And in a long-term kind of 
extreme context we can think of 

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this as Code switching. 
We can think of this as being 

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just very adaptable and it is a 
wonderful skill to have. 

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I also actually think of it as a
very valuable life skill. 

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The ability to assess perceive 
observe adapt to kind of fit 

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with the flow of the room. 
But then what happens when you 

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are in a leadership role is 
actually. 

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Now, you are the one people look
to to establish the tone. 

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One to set the tone of the room 
and to bring a presence that is 

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going to be a bit more vibrant 
or bold as opposed to blending 

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in. 
So that sense of needing to 

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really kind of claim your space,
and hold your space, with a 

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sense of presence of like, this 
is what I'm bringing into the 

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room and I feel self-assured and
confident about it and I have 

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the authority. 
Ready to make decisions, and 

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they will be good decisions. 
Even if not, everybody likes 

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them, that's kind of how I think
about it. 

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And what's interesting, too, is,
you can still be a really warm 

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kind person and have executive 
presence. 

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So it's not about, you know, 
being tough or hard or cold, or 

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calculating, or or overpowering,
right? 

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It's not about who I demonstrate
that I have. 

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Power over these people because 
of my status and position. 

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That's not it. 
It really is more about. 

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I honestly think of it as an 
internal sense of feeling 

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self-assured and confident and 
it is in my authority to make 

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decisions and an understanding 
that that is your role and 

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responsibilities. 
So there's the combination of 

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both the feeling, what is the 
feeling you have and then what 

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are the behaviors that will flow
out? 

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Out as an extension of that 
feeling. 

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So those are some things to be 
aware of. 

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You can absolutely still be kind
and have executive presence that

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one can be interesting because 
often kindness can be 

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misunderstood as weakness. 
I see this, sometimes, 

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especially depending on the 
industry that you work in, if 

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you work in a very kind of 
combative industry than 

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kindness, sometimes can Need 
like, in a way that gets 

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misunderstood and it's really 
cool. 

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When I see my clients who are 
just like, very kind people 

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realize, oh, I am a kind person.
And I am very warm, but do not 

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be mistaken, right? 
Like, I'm very clear about why 

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we are here and what my role is.
And I feel very reassured and, 

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you know, this, this ability to 
not be bullied or overpowered or

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settled by someone who Miss 
reads kindness as one of my 

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clients said so beautifully, she
said oh I'm kind because I want 

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to be not because I have to be 
because I think sometimes you 

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know there's kind of this social
Norm where people are kind 

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because they have to Curry favor
with someone in a greater 

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position of power. 
What's really lovely? 

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As when you realize, oh, I 
actually like Being kind. 

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That's just who I am as a 
person. 

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That's how I like to manage. 
That's how I like to lead and do

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not mistake that kindness for 
you know, thinking that I have 

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no boundaries or that I'm not 
clear about roles and 

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responsibilities and I will be a
very kind person, but I'll also 

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be very direct and very clear 
and everything will be fine. 

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Just, you know, don't don't 
mistake me, so that's an 

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interesting. testing element 
when we think about executive 

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presence because you want to be 
able to access that in a way 

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that feels genuine to you and 
not in a way that feels 

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performative or like you're 
having to kind of mimic or 

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mirror someone and this is 
really important if you are 

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underrepresented in your 
organization, the normal thing 

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that we do is we tend to look to
who are the other people that 

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seem to be Exhibiting, the 
behavior that is wanted and so 

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it's easy to make the mistake of
then mimicking. 

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People who are very different 
from you. 

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You have different styles or 
different backgrounds and 

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thinking oh if I'm, if I have 
executive presence, I'm supposed

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to look like and behave like 
these other people. 

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That's actually not what it's 
about. 

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It's more about. 
What is the feeling that you 

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have on the inside? 
And then how do you bring that 

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into the room to change the 
energy of the room? 

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So people have a sense of safety
and Clarity. 

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I'll share one more story that I
think is helpful for 

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understanding this because it 
has less with people and it's 

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more about like how we relate 
with animals. 

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So a while back, I was doing 
some work with a friend of mine 

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who has horses and what was 
really interesting is that with 

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horses they are very honest with
what they perceive and how they 

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feel, they don't try Make you 
feel good. 

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They're not going to agree with 
you secretly. 

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You know agree with you on the 
surface and secretly disagree. 

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They're just very honest in what
they're perceiving feeling and 

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it flows right into their 
behavior. 

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So I had this experience where 
I'd walk into the round pen with

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this horse that was at Liberty, 
meaning there wasn't any halter 

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and no tie, it was just walking 
freely in this small enclosed 

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space. 
And what emerged in that moment 

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was the horse looks At me to try
to kind of assess. 

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Like, who is this person? 
Is she a threat? 

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Is she, you know, do I need to 
defend myself against her? 

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Are we going to do something 
together like what's going on? 

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And then very quickly, the horse
was like, oh, whatever she does 

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not know what she's doing, and 
the hearts just kind of went off

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and was doing its own thing, and
it was so interesting because 

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when I was feeling insecure 
because I had not a lot of 

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experience with horses and I was
worried about, What's going to 

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happen here? 
It was so fascinating. 

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You know, in the, the way, my 
friend described this, she's 

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like, you know, the horses job 
is to know who's in charge so 

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that they can feel relaxed. 
Like a horse is a herd animal. 

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And in a herd there's always 
like a lead mare whose job is to

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keep an eye on everyone and the 
environment and then alert them 

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if there's anything they need to
pay attention to. 

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And so if a horse Has by itself.
It's going to be assessing its 

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environment and the moment you 
walk into the space, they will 

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be assessing. 
Are you the lead mare or am I 

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right? 
Like, are you the one who's 

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going to be paying attention and
kind of setting the tone and if 

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not, then I'm going to do it 
because somebody here needs to 

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be paying attention and I will 
just do that for myself if you 

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are not going to step into that 
role and it was so interesting 

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to notice, right? 
Because humans to we Very social

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creatures. 
And when you put a lot of humans

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together in a work setting, or 
in any kind of setting, there's 

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kind of the sense of who is the 
adult in the room, who has the 

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authority to make decisions, who
is kind of looking out for the 

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big picture for the good of all 
of us like who is that person? 

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And so when we're thinking 
about, what is the quality of 

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presence you bring into a room? 
What is the executive presence 

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that you bring I want to offer? 
/. 

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It's kind of like that. 
Like, it's that sense of okay? 

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I will step into this room with 
that energy and the intention of

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having clarity about my role 
feeling self-assured and 

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confident about why I'm here and
what I'm here to do, and what 

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our relationship is and don't 
worry, like, I've got this, 

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right? 
So that is what I wanted to 

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share with you the sense of 
executive presence and kind of 

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what that means of normalizing. 
Also if Something you've never 

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heard of or if people are now 
starting to give you that kind 

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of feedback and you're feeling a
little unclear about what they 

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mean. 
Then you know this episode will 

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have helped to get a little more
clarity around that and if this 

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is something that you know you 
want to work on more 

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00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:28,800
specifically, then we definitely
should work together because 

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that's something I love to do 
and I like to help my clients 

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with and you can go into the 
show notes, you will See, a link

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00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,600
to book time on my calendar and 
we can talk about how to get you

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there, and we can just make it 
happen. 

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So, that is what I wanted to 
share with you notice. 

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Also, before I last thought in 
your own environment, if you 

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think about the people that you 
work with who stands out to you,

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as having a quality of executive
presence or who stands out to 

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00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,800
you as having that quality of 
presence where when they are 

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part of the meeting, The project
or the team, you can relax a 

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little bit because you think, 
okay? 

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Like this is the person who we 
can look to as a leader who will

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00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,300
make decisions and it may not 
have anything to do with their 

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title. 
It's not about the title. 

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It's really about the energy, 
the quality that you bring into 

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the space. 
So that's what I got for you 

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today. 
I hope you enjoyed and I hope 

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you have a really great day. 
I'll talk to you next time. 

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Bye. 
Hey, before you go, if you like 

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00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,600
this podcast, please leave a 
review. 

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00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,500
Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

350
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:51,000
Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time. 

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00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,800
Hey, before you go, if you like 
this podcast, please leave a 

352
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,500
review. 
Tell me why you listen and what 

353
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:49,800
has helped you? 
Thanks so much. 

354
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,000
I'll see you next time.