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Welcome to the new Manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nichol. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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I want today's episode to be an 
appreciation episode, and the 

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reason why is because a couple 
of days ago I was a guest 

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speaker at UC Davis. 
They had invited me to speak 

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about the podcast, about my 
coaching practice, and this was 

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all part of the coach 
certification program that I 

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actually took like five years 
ago. 

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So it felt really good to be 
invited back as an alumni of the

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program and to share about the 
podcast and why I do it and how 

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that fits into the bigger work 
that I'm doing. 

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And one of the things that came 
out in the course of the 

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conversation is this question of
how people find the show, how 

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people find it and listen to it.
And it really clarified for me 

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that you really need to give 
yourself some credit because I 

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don't know how you found this 
show. 

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I don't promote it. 
It's grown entirely organically 

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over the last couple of years 
either. 

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My guess is you were searching 
for something in your favorite 

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podcast listening app, something
for new managers, or something 

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that would help you at work, and
somehow you found it and then 

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you chose to listen. 
Like you chose that. 

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You chose to find it, you chose 
to listen to it. 

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Maybe someone that you know 
shared it with you, or maybe 

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you've also shared it with 
somebody who's listening now. 

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But I think that's important to 
highlight for a couple of 

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reasons. 
Number one, give yourself some 

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recognition for what it means. 
The fact that you have taken the

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effort and time to care about 
your own professional 

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development and how you are able
to show up at work and address 

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whatever challenges or changes 
or uncertainties you're facing. 

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Because not everybody does that.
Like, the easiest thing to do 

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when things are hard at work is 
to simply complain about it or 

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to, you know, talk with someone 
who is going to say, yeah, yeah,

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no, that sounds so, that sounds 
so tough, that sounds so hard, 

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but not actually do something 
about it. 

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And the fact that you have found
this show that you're listening 

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to it and that you're able to 
then take something from it that

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will help you in a very 
practical, meaningful way at 

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work is so meaningful and so 
important. 

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And I would even say that if you
haven't, you know, included that

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in part of your performance 
review, if you if you haven't 

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said, yeah, you know, like I 
really care about doing a great 

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job here. 
And so of my own accord and my 

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own volition, I found this great
podcast and it's given me lots 

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to think about and some 
practical ideas for ways that 

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help me be better at work. 
I mean, claim credit for that. 

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And the reason I want to 
highlight this is for a couple 

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of things. 
One is there are sometimes 

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things that you will do that you
don't give yourself credit for 

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because in your mind it just 
seems normal. 

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It just seems obvious. 
And so you put in the effort and

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you create some kind of positive
results from that. 

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And then you don't recognize it.
You don't give yourself credit 

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and you don't give yourself the 
visibility. 

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You don't let other people know.
And I, you know, sometimes we 

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want to do things on the down 
low just for ourselves, for our 

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own personal private reasons, 
which is fine. 

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But I want to kind of shine a 
light on this alternative, which

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is to give yourself the 
recognition and credit and then 

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make that visible to others, 
both in the course of your own 

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professional development and 
performance review 

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conversations, as well as this 
sense of being someone who is 

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resourceful and then sharing 
those resources with other 

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people in your organization or 
your industry. 

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And one of the things that I see
this as important is because on 

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the learning and development 
side, well, actually let me back

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up a little bit. 
So most organizations do not 

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have dedicated learning and 
development people. 

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Some organizations do like 
they'll hire people whose only 

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job is to help the staff and the
employees develop their skills, 

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work Better Together, They 
actually hire people and that's 

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their full time job. 
Most of the time. 

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From what I've seen throughout 
my career is that responsibility

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will often fall to the people 
who work in HR, but HR is a 

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really big job. 
There are a lot of things that 

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the HR person and the, or the HR
team is in charge of. 

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They're in charge of hiring. 
They're in charge of, you know, 

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compensation. 
They're in charge of performance

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reviews. 
They're also in charge of 

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addressing like problems and 
challenges with personnel. 

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And they have a lot of things on
their plate. 

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And usually learning and 
development is a very, very 

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small part of that. 
So of course, they don't give a 

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ton of attention to it. 
And there's always this question

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of, you know, how do we know if 
the learning is working? 

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And so, you know, to kind of 
spin it back a little bit and 

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give it even an another 
perspective. 

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I had the experience of working 
on an internal learning and 

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development team a couple of 
years ago, and it was for a 

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company that's known to have a 
really great culture. 

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They really care about their 
employee development, which is 

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why they had a dedicated L&D 
team. 

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I think at the time I was there,
the entire learning and 

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development team was probably 
around 11:50 people or so. 

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So that sounds like a lot, 
right? 

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Like 10 to 12 people whose only 
job is to focus on the learning 

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and development of the staff and
employees. 

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That sounds pretty good, right? 
But I mean, this was a company 

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of thousands of people located 
all around the world. 

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And so when you are one person 
or a small team and you're 

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trying to meet the needs of the 
organization by assessing across

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thousands of people, what are 
the skills that are needed and 

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how can we best support and 
develop those skills? 

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The kind of problem you're 
trying to solve is a little bit 

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weird. 
Like it's a little bit like it's

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really hard to dial in and 
specifically address the problem

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of someone who is having a 
specific challenge with an 

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employee or or their staff in 
that moment. 

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It's really hard to meet people 
right where they are because the

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scale of what you're trying to 
do is so big. 

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And because you're often trying 
to address things on an 

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organizational level, like if 
you're hiring a trainer or 

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someone from outside, you're 
trying to address something on 

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it on a big organizational level
rather than on like a supportive

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individual career level. 
That's usually where coaching 

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comes in where they'll say, OK, 
this specific leader has 

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specific challenges and skills 
they'd like to develop. 

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So we're going to pair them with
a coach and just give them that 

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highly personalized individual 
one-on-one resource. 

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That's often why that resource 
is reserved for for folks at the

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higher level because it tends to
be more expensive, because it 

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costs more, because you have, 
you know, one person, a coach 

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giving support and working with 
only one employee. 

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As opposed to some of these 
other resources where they'll 

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say, OK, we're going to bring in
an outside trainer or we're 

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going to partner with some kind 
of like content learning 

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provider and we're going to be 
able to have like asynchronous 

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on demand learning for, you 
know, all of these people. 

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And then we have to do 
assessments and we have to 

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measure the result. 
We have to measure the outcome. 

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And this is one of the really 
tricky things because if you 

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remember to a couple of episodes
ago and I shared that quote from

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this VP who said the most, you 
know, the most measurable things

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of my job, the way I'm able to 
do those are through 

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unmeasurable things like trust 
and emotional intelligence and 

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being able to say the hard thing
without pissing people off and 

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being able to recognize when, 
you know, my team says 

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everything's OK, but I can tell 
there's not all of these 

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unmeasurable skills is what 
allows you to create the 

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measurable performance. 
And this is true like within 

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organizations, but it's also 
true on a personal level, right?

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Like I think about from what 
I've heard through the clients 

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and the students that I've 
worked with and the kinds of 

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things that they are able to 
identify to know, is this 

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working? 
And by this I mean, is the 

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coaching working or is the class
or the course working? 

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How do you measure if those was 
a good investment of your time 

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or energy? 
Well, the things people tell me 

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from their own individual 
experience are things like, I'm 

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not getting sick at the end of 
the year. 

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I've had clients say I, you 
know, I use, I would work 

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really, really hard and it was 
very stressful. 

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And I'd be OK until the end of 
the year. 

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And right around the holidays, 
my body would just kind of 

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collapse and I would, I would 
just always get sick. 

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And then I learned how to do 
things differently, how to not 

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take things personally, how to 
communicate in a way that didn't

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stressed me out so much, and I 
wasn't getting sick anymore. 

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So that was one of those 
measurable things. 

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People will say I'm not 
exhausted at the end of the day.

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I'm not impatient with my spouse
or my kids. 

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That is the kind of measurable 
result that I think so matters 

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as an organization. 
There are usually numbers that 

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they're trying to measure like 
did this turn into more money? 

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Did this turn into, you know, 
higher quality output? 

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Did this turn into like reduced 
attrition, right. 

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Like maybe maybe there was, you 
know, people were leaving and 

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then they got trainer, a trainer
or coaching for this one leader 

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and then people stopped 
quitting. 

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You know, there are there are 
different ways that in an 

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organization they're trying to 
turn a measurement into numbers.

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What are those numbers? 
But on a more human level, the 

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things that tend to matter most 
that then, you know, become what

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allow you to perform and hit 
those outside numbers are things

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like, you know, I'm not so 
stressed, which means when I 

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come home at the end of the day,
I'm less exhausted. 

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And because I'm less exhausted, 
I have more patience. 

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I can really be present with my 
family. 

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I feel more, you know, engaged 
and like, they like hanging out 

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with me more because I'm not so 
stressed or worried. 

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That is a measure that matters, 
even if it doesn't fit neatly 

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into an Excel spreadsheet. 
Oh, and then one of the other 

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ones that that often comes up, 
it's the, oh, I'm not waking up 

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at 3:00 in the morning thinking 
about work. 

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When we're measuring the ROI of 
your professional development, 

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we're usually not asking, oh, 
you know, how are you sleeping 

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at night? 
But when we're stressed or we're

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worried, and especially when we 
care a lot and so we really take

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our responsibilities seriously, 
that metric of how well are you 

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sleeping can be very revealing. 
It can be very important. 

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And so you might not share that 
with the HR partner who wants to

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measure the effectiveness of, 
you know, the program. 

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But I mentioned it because you 
want to be mindful of that. 

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You want to be mindful for you, 
what is your measure of success?

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What are your measures of this 
is working, this is worth it? 

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This was something that I'm glad
I did because it's going to help

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me. 
That's something that you want 

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to keep track of for your 
career, not just this particular

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moment in this particular job. 
And so I think, you know, when I

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asked myself like, why is it so 
common that managers don't get 

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support when they need it? 
Why is it so common when surveys

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go out and they say how many new
managers get training or 

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coaching or support? 
Why is that number so low? 

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Why is it that like 60% of 
people surveyed say, no, I had 

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nothing given to me? 
Why is that? 

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And I think it really comes down
to it's a hard thing to solve 

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for at an organizational level. 
The organization will try to do 

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something, but from a place of 
compassion, we can say, you know

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what, the HR people have a lot 
going on. 

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Your manager has a lot going on.
If you're lucky, there will be 

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someone that you work with who 
also cares about professional 

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development and will support and
encourage you to do that. 

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This is also one of those 
disconnects. 

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If an organization says we want 
you to improve your skills and 

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get more, you know, like 
emotionally resilient and more 

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become more of a creative 
problem solver. 

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If an organization is telling 
you that, but they're not 

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providing any measurable support
for that, like it will interfere

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with your KPIs or if it will 
somehow not be recognized in 

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your performance review, then 
we're going to have this 

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disconnect, right? 
And like if the, the sounds, 

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this is so businessy, but it, 
you know, it's like, if the 

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incentives don't align, then you
won't see that happen. 

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You'll continue to have this 
disconnect. 

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And so I think that it's 
important if you if you do work 

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in an organization that is 
supportive of your learning and 

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growth, amazing, make the most 
of it. 

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If you work in an organization 
where that's just not available,

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we don't have to feel angry or 
mad about that. 

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We just want to be really clear 
and accepting. 

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OK, that's probably not going to
become available to me there. 

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But what can I do anyways? 
Because it's of benefit to you 

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personally, both in your 
personal life and in your career

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life to find something that will
help you and my in my 

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imagination, you know, like 
that's why we're here right now.

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That's why my voice is in your 
ear, because you are a person 

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who sought something out because
you knew that it could help you.

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And that's the kind of person 
you are. 

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Like you are a creative problem 
solver. 

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You are a resourceful person. 
You are someone who can evaluate

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the landscape and say, OK, 
that's not going to be available

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over there, but what else can I 
do? 

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And so I really just wanted to 
acknowledge and celebrate you 

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for that because that is a big 
deal. 

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I think all of our organizations
benefit from that mindset. 

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And also just everything that 
you do that also supports your 

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well-being over time. 
Even when you leave this 

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organization or you leave this 
role and go into another role, 

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it all adds up. 
It all matters. 

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So I wanted to leave you with 
that. 

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I think one of the questions 
that you might take from this is

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the question of, you know, why 
is this happening? 

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Anytime we're facing some kind 
of complex challenge, it can be 

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easy to kind of get into the 
weeds. 

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But if we take a step back and 
say, why is this happening For 

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me, for this episode, I was 
thinking like, why is this 

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happening? 
Why is it happening that new 

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managers are overlooked and 
underserved? 

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Why is it happening that people 
will say people don't quit jobs,

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they quit managers? 
Like that Seems every time, 

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every time I mention that to 
somebody, they say, Oh yeah, 

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I've heard that people don't 
quit jobs, they quit managers. 

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And at the same exact time, 
managers are not getting 

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coaching or leadership training 
or support and learning how to 

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do that job. 
And then how that job is 

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different than being an 
individual contributor. 

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Why is it true? 
Like why is this happening that 

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we know the relationship you 
have with your direct manager 

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has as significant an effect on 
your mental health and 

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well-being as your relationship 
with your partner or spouse. 

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You spend so much time in 
relationship with your direct 

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manager, it has a massive 
influence on your health and 

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well-being. 
We know that managers affect the

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well-being of the individuals 
that they work with. 

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And again, why are managers not 
receiving more support? 

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So when I ask myself this 
question, why is this happening,

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I come to see this perspective 
of, well, it's really hard to 

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do. 
Incentives are not always 

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aligned, resources are not 
always there. 

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And so in light of that, what 
can we do to address this 

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instead? 
How can we get creative? 

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So here we are like I am here 
creating this for you. 

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You are here because you are 
someone who cares and you are 

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learning and you are going to be
able to show up a little more 

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resourced when you go into work 
the next day. 

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So I hope you appreciate that 
for yourself. 

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Give yourself a little pat on 
the back and make sure that you 

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get credit for that. 
Like include that in your own 

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sort of sense of identity, of 
being resourceful and creative, 

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of taking initiative. 
And if it feels right, maybe 

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even bring that up at work in 
your next performance review or 

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in your next one-on-one with 
your manager and make sure that 

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they know that you're doing this
work outside and of your own 

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volition. 
And my hope is that this is the 

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kind of resource that helps you 
feel more confident and more 

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relaxed so that you feel 
healthy, that you're enjoying 

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your life more, that you have 
more energy at the end of your 

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work day and at the end of your 
work week, so that you can enjoy

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parts of your life that have 
nothing to do with work. 

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My hope is that this is the kind
of resource that allows you to 

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enjoy your family more and your 
friends more so that you can 

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really be present for them and 
with them. 

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And that this is the kind of 
resource that will help you to 

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sleep better at night. 
Because I'd like for you to feel

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well rested. 
Sleep is really, really 

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important. 
I don't think we're going to be 

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able to effectively address the 
complex challenges facing us in 

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the world unless we are well 
rested. 

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So that's what I wanted to share
with you today. 

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Quick announcements, I am 
teaching a new class, I'm 

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00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,080
calling it leadership 
orientation. 

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It's on June 18th. 
So go into the show notes to 

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00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,440
learn about that or go to my 
website, kimnickel.com to learn 

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00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,960
about that class. 
That one is just going to be two

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hours and you're going to 
uncover your leadership values, 

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00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,440
you're going to learn more about
your leadership style and it's 

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00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,960
going to be a lot of fun. 
So sign up for that. 

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00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,760
And then coming up in July, I'm 
offering again my six week 

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00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,160
course on communication 
strategies for managers. 

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Now with both of these courses, 
if you sign up with a colleague 

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00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,640
or a friend, you will save 20% 
off the price. 

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So hopefully your work will be 
excited to support you and cover

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00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,280
the cost of that. 
But even if they don't still 

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consider coming because it's 
going to benefit you directly. 

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And you know, that's what we're 
here for. 

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We need to be a little selfish, 
you know, when it comes to your 

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learning and development, you 
need to care about that. 

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So information about that is in 
the show notes or on my website.

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00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,480
If you like the show, leave a 
review and a rating. 

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00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,600
And I hope you have a really 
great week. 

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Thank you so much for listening,
and I'll talk to you next time. 

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When you're more effective at 
work, you're happier in your 

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00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,320
life, and when you're happier in
your life, you're more effective

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00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,120
at work. 
I can help. 

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00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,720
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 
and sign up for a coaching 

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00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,160
consult. 
It can get better.