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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello, and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here. 
And I hope you're doing well. 

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We've had a lot of new listeners
joining the podcast, so I want 

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to give a quick introduction if 
you haven't met me before, if 

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you are a new, my name is Kim 
nickel, I am a life coach, I 

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work with managers and leaders 
at different levels, in their 

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careers and I work with people 
in a wide range. 

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Range of Industries. 
I'm really interested in what it

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means to be a human who works 
with other humans. 

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And so that's what I talked 
about here. 

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I want to help you to feel more 
effective to feel more 

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authentically, confident in the 
work place. 

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And we can't do that without 
bringing some awareness and 

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understanding to what it means 
to be a human. 

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And what's interesting is that 
everything you learn about 

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yourself, will also help you as 
a Manager because you'll 

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understand the people that you 
work with are also human and in 

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some ways they might be very 
similar to you. 

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But in some ways, you might 
actually be quite different. 

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And I think that, as a manager 
can be easy to manage people who

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are like us, and it can be more 
challenging when we are managing

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people who have really different
personalities or different 

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backgrounds, or that just Like 
there's more friction and 

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difficulty. 
And so part of this, as you grow

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your own self-awareness and as 
you grow in your skills around 

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strategic thinking, and 
decision-making, and 

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communication, and all of these 
other skills that you will use 

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in the course of your work, it 
just it all really starts with 

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being human. 
And the more, you know about 

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that for yourself, the more 
easily, it is to then. 

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Adapt and work effectively with 
a wide range of people. 

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And you know, the neat thing 
too. 

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Is that all of the skills that 
we need to manage people, 

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effectively? 
We also use those same skills in

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all of our relationships. 
So the way we communicate, the 

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way that we listen, the way that
we think strategically about the

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decisions we make. 
I mean every everything that we 

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learn that helps us work better 
with humans. 

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Also will be of benefit to you 
in other areas of your life. 

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So I get kind of excited about 
all of that and I'm glad you're 

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here and I'm guessing you would 
get excited about that too. 

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Today, I want to talk with you 
about how to start thinking 

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about managing people, even if 
you don't manage them yet, I've 

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had a few questions. 
A few requests come in from 

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people who are not managing yet,
but they anticipate doing That 

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in the coming, six months for 
the coming year and as a side 

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note, if there's a topic that 
you really are curious for me to

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cover, you can always request 
that. 

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So find me on LinkedIn and 
message me. 

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Or go to my website, 
canonical.com, there's a link in

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the notes below. 
Send me a note. 

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Tell me what you want to hear 
more about and I'll see what I 

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can do. 
But you know, when you think 

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about what are the things you 
need to be aware of and how can 

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you start preparing? 
Manage people. 

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It's what I've been reflecting 
on and want to share some 

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thoughts with you today. 
Also, because today, I'm feeling

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super reflective on this topic 
because I have been 

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facilitating, this eight-month 
group coaching program for a 

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group of Physicians. 
And so, for them, they're 

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managing staff. 
They're also doing patient 

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management, like needing to 
manage the relationship with the

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patient and they're also needing
to manage up to their 

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leadership. 
Yep. 

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And they're having to do all of 
this within some pretty 

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challenging circumstances and 
within an organizational 

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structure that creates that 
creates difficulties as well. 

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And so I've just been thinking 
about, you know, what does it 

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mean to manage within kind of 
all of these dimensions and what

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are some of the things that we 
can all learn from? 

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And one of the things that 
really stands out to me and this

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is something That will be 
relevant to you, especially as 

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you move from Individual 
contributor to manager is that 

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when we're individual 
contributors very often, our 

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mindset is oriented around. 
Solving problems. 

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We have a specific task. 
The thing that we are supposed 

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to do, and our job is to be 
really good at solving that 

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specific problem, really good at
the execution, really good at, 

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you know, getting into To the 
granular delivery of the of the 

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thing. 
And so what happens is we start 

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to feel really good about being 
problem solvers. 

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And in fact, a lot of interviews
will ask about how do you solve 

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problems. 
But what often happens then when

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you move into being a manager 
is, you might have situations 

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with problems that you can't fix
in the way you would like 

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either. 
Because the problems that you're

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facing are Turning on a very 
systemic level, and they always 

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were. 
But now because you're a 

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manager, you are seeing them in 
a new way, in a way that you 

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didn't see or couldn't perceive 
when you were an individual 

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contributor. 
And so, when you pride yourself 

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on being a problem, solver and 
you're in a situation where 

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there's not an elegant solution 
to the problem that can feel 

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very frustrating. 
When we We feel like we are not 

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doing a good job at resolving a 
conflict, or we are not doing a 

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good job of solving a problem 
when we identify as problem 

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solvers, that can be very 
demoralizing, very frustrating 

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and just draining because you 
don't get that feeling of 

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success and completion and 
competence. 

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So, one thing to be aware of is 
when you are getting ready to 

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shift from the icy roll into the
Manager role is just being aware

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of how much do you pride 
yourself on solving problems? 

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Because when you move into a 
manager role, we're going to 

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need to update your mindset a 
little bit. 

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We're going to need to shift 
your perspective and the work 

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that you do may not be solving 
problems in the way that you're 

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used to. 
One person I was talking with 

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said, you know, I was really 
good as an icy at doing this 

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task, doing this thing and when 
I became a manager, all of a 

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sudden, it was about managing 
relationships and dealing with 

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conflict and listening to people
on my team share, how frustrated

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they were about things that were
happening in our organization. 

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And he said, I just was not 
prepared for that. 

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Like all I do now is 
relationship management rather 

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than the problem solving. 
So just be aware that it's 

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going. 
Look a little bit different and 

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the way you measure your 
Effectiveness might need to 

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change. 
We might need to explore what 

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that's going to look like for 
you. 

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So what makes a good manager? 
This is a great question to ask 

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yourself before you get into 
that role because when you're 

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in, I see you really have the 
perspective of What In your 

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experience. 
Has been a great manager. 

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If you think about the best 
manager you ever had and you 

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identify what are the qualities?
And Characteristics of that 

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person that made them great and 
once you identify a list of 

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qualities and characteristics 
that made them great, then you 

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want to go to the next level 
which is asking yourself. 

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How exactly did they do that? 
So, for example, you might say, 

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a great manager, really cares 
about me and wants to see me do 

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well in advance in my career, 
and you might have had a manager

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that did that, and you felt by 
the such a great manager. 

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Because I can just feel that 
they care about me as a person 

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and I feel like my manager wants
me to do well in my career, you 

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want to ask yourself how exactly
are they doing that? 

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What are the behaviors or how 
are they communicating with you 

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that conveys that feeling? 
Because you know, it's happening

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all the time whether we're 
building, trust or eroding trust

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but we don't always pick up. 
On the specific indicators of 

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how they're doing that. 
And so when you have a manager 

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as an IC, just start to notice 
what are the things they do? 

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Well. 
And then how exactly are they 

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creating that feeling, or how? 
Exactly, you know, if you say 

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they're really good 
communicator. 

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What exactly does that mean? 
Does it mean that they're very 

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clear? 
Does it mean that they are 

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direct? 
Does it mean that they are kind?

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Does it mean? 
That oh my gosh, I hit I 

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received an email from someone. 
I used to work with this was 

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many years ago and this was a 
person who just did not believe 

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in you know, hard returns and 
between paragraphs and so I 

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would get this email and it 
would look like a wall of text. 

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And I thought, oh my gosh, if 
you just added a couple of hard 

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returns, if he could just make 
this visually more available to 

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me, that would help. 
It's so much but you know we 

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just thought in different ways 
and at the time I didn't know 

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how to have that conversation. 
So I just suffered in silence 

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and here we are. 
But you know, if you think about

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what are the things that the 
managers that you have the 

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managers around you? 
What do you see and what exactly

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are they doing? 
That's creating that good 

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experience that will help you. 
That's also why I find it can be

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really difficult to give lists 
of examples and He studies 

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because so much of the reality 
of it that happens on the ground

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day-to-day. 
They are these small Nuance 

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things that you might not notice
unless you are looking for them.

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So bring your curiosity. 
Be a little bit of an 

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investigator. 
Get really interested. 

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If you think someone's doing a 
great job, as a manager, dig a 

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Little Deeper understand why 
what are they doing? 

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Doing. 
And if you're in a situation 

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where you're feeling a lot of 
friction with your manager, 

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you're feeling a lot of. 
Not a lot of trust, you don't 

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feel like you have a great 
manager, then, ask yourself why,

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like, what specifically is it in
what they're doing? 

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That's creating that feeling of 
friction and the one caveat 

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here, the one thing to be aware 
of is that a person who is not a

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good manager, it doesn't That 
they are a bad person. 

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I think a lot of people really 
do their best to manage but 

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don't have training don't have 
guidance or trying their best to

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figure it out as they go and so 
you can have someone who's a 

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really good person and really 
great intentions, but the skill 

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level is just not, it's just not
there and you know, remembering 

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that managing people is a skill.
So it's something you can learn 

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and when we remember, okay, this
person may not be a bad person. 

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And they're just not a great 
manager for me, then that lets 

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us take things less personally. 
It lets us be a bit more focused

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and clear on what this 
relationship is and that just 

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gives you the breathing room to 
function in a healthier way 

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without absorbing all of the 
frustration, it just makes it 

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easier to deal with. 
So doing that reflection on what

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makes a great manager, getting 
specific about how they are 

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creating those great qualities. 
If You have a manager and you 

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don't really like something 
about the way they manage you. 

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Then imagine that you could 
design or request the ideal 

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manager for you for your 
specific personality. 

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What is it that you would want 
to see? 

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What is the behavior? 
What is the experience? 

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What specifically would that 
look like? 

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And that will get your brain 
thinking and noticing some 

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specific granular behaviors? 
And qualities. 

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So once you do this for 
yourself, consider having this 

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conversation with friends with 
colleagues. 

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And with your manager asking hey
what do you think makes a great 

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manager? 
What are your thoughts about 

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that? 
Because people have different 

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ways of describing, what makes a
great manager. 

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They've had different 
experiences, some people will 

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prefer one style of management. 
Another Ian will prefer a 

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different style of management. 
And so, part of what you're 

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listening for is wanting to 
understand. 

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How do people talk about great 
managers about why those 

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managers are good about how 
those managers specifically were

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doing things that really worked.
Well, because you want to fill 

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your internal library with 
examples and links. 

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Wij and ideas about what people 
mean, when they talk about 

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someone being a great manager 
and all of this, you can start 

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to do way before you end up 
actually managing people like 

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having to do their performance 
reviews because you will also be

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managing people, informally, 
you'll manage up, you'll you 

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might manage clients, you might 
manage like cross-functional 

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Partners or collaborative, team 
mates. 

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It's so the more you start to 
think about it and start to have

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an active conversation about it.
The more you really start to 

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learn and absorb in a very 
intentional way, and I found 

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that often people really enjoy 
sharing their opinion and their 

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thoughts about what makes a 
great manager. 

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Again, the one thing you want to
be mindful of is not letting it 

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drift down into the negative 
because when we start, Venting. 

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And that's all we do is complain
and talk about the terrible 

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experiences. 
We've had we usually end up 

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feeling reactivated and really 
upset and it can actually kind 

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of bring us into a place where 
we're focused on the negative 

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and this is more of an 
appreciative inquiry practice. 

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Where you're looking at, what 
are the qualities that you want 

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to amplify or you want to learn 
from or that you would want to 

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try for yourself? 
We're looking for the things to 

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try and do rather than for the 
things to try and to not do so, 

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keep it in the realm of 
appreciative inquiry. 

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And, and the other bonus too is 
that when you are initiating 

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this conversation with your 
manager, or people who are in 

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higher levels than you, you're 
also signaling that you're 

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thinking about, you know, how 
you want to manage and thinking 

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through, you know, I'm Caring 
for that. 

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Next level, you're signaling 
your trajectory, you're 

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signaling your sense of 
commitment to growth. 

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You're signaling that you are 
taking responsibility for the 

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direction and development of 
your career and they can help 

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you by sharing something, 
positive by sharing their 

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thoughts about what makes a 
great manager. 

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Maybe the manager, that inspires
them, the things that they've 

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learned about how to manage 
people effectively, it can be a 

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really interesting conversation.
And the other thing to think of 

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so you know, just to back up 
again. 

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So the question is what makes 
you great manager thinking this 

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through your own experience. 
Having that conversation with 

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others. 
That's why we're looking at the 

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individual. 
We're looking at an individual 

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manager and what are their 
behaviors? 

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How are they creating positive 
experiences? 

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But now I want you to shift your
attention off of the one person 

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and look at the bigger picture 
me. 

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Saying the culture, the 
processes and systems within 

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which the manager operates and 
I'm mentioning this because we 

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work within an ecosystem and 
depending on how that system 

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functions that will influence 
the experience that both the 

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manager has and the people on 
their team. 

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So, for example, if you work in 
an organization, Ation that does

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not have clear leveling meaning 
the distinction from like an 

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associate. 
A junior to an associate to a 

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senior-level person is very 
vague. 

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There are not clearly stated 
requirements or qualifications 

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for each level. 
It's very subjective. 

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Not very clear that is a 
structural thing that will have 

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a very strong influence on how 
that Manages compared to if it's

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an organization that has very 
clearly defined and distinct 

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levels and competencies and 
requirements for each level, it 

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will just create very different 
experiences. 

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Another example there was a 
client that I had, who got a new

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job at this really big company. 
This Global organization and we 

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were talking about feedback and 
performance reviews and she said

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oh, with the This company 
doesn't actually do formal 

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performance reviews. 
I was shocked, I just, I just 

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kind of assumed. 
I mean, I had all I had either 

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worked in, you know, established
companies, that had established 

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regular performance review 
structures. 

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Or I had worked in startup 
environments where everything 

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was being invented. 
You know, like every month, it 

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was like a new way to solve the 
problem, but it hadn't occurred 

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to me that a very successful 
Global organization could. 

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Just decide. 
Yeah. 

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We don't do performance reviews.
That's we just don't do that 

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thought what that's fascinating.
So you never know. 

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There are lots of ways to be 
successful. 

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There are lots of ways to 
organize work and people and 

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lots of ways to design, you 
know, how we do things here. 

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So, you know, in a company that 
does not have a formal 

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structured performance review, 
and promotion process the way. 

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That manager functions in that 
environment is going to be 

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different than a manager who 
works in an organization that 

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has you know every year or twice
a year. 

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We do a formal review process 
and we have very clear, you 

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know, system of fork you know 
evaluating performance and how 

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people get promoted like all of 
that. 

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It just the the structure and 
the ecosystem. 

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You work in is a part of How 
that manager will manage and 

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similarly to the culture and I 
think of culture is simply how 

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to people treat each other. 
You can have culture. 

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You know, if you have two people
you have culture because it's 

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about how do we relate to one? 
Another, how do we treat one 

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another? 
Do we extend the benefit of the 

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doubt? 
Do we freak out when there is a 

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mistake and then punish people 
and never let them forget it or 

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do we take a you know I learning
Mindset approach are we generous

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with second chances? 
You know there are so many 

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different ways that we can think
about culture. 

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Oh I will also see two sometimes
with culture depending on you 

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know who the employees are, if 
the employees are mostly single 

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people who do not have children,
that culture will probably look 

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different than a company that 
has a lot of people who do have 

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who are parents and who do have 
have Partners like the way that 

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we treat each other and you know
the way that we do team building

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and the way that we show that we
are committed, that can look 

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really different depending on 
the culture of the organization.

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So when you look at the systems,
the culture, the structures of 

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the organization is the 
organization going through a lot

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of change. 
Are there changes in structure? 

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Are Changes in upper level 
leadership and management. 

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That might influence what 
happens and how people manage. 

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But when you look at the 
organizational as a space, as an

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ecosystem, you look at the 
individuals and what are the 

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choices that they make? 
What are the ways that they 

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manage? 
Well, how do they create trust? 

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How do they create a sense of, 
you know, we're all on the same 

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team here, whatever it is that 
you identified as the thing that

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those managers do. 
Well, when you look at those two

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Dimensions that can help you to 
answer the big question, which 

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as a manager is like the first 
question, the first question 

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that you bring to your team and 
the first question your team is 

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00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,500
going to ask of you, whether 
they say this out loud or not, 

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the question is, how are we 
going to work together? 

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And the way that you answer, 
that will be informed in part by

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the Is a Sheen you work in as 
well as the specific and 

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00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,500
individual choices that you 
make. 

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00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:51,500
And the way that you and your 
team together decide to answer 

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that question. 
So that is what I wanted to 

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00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,300
share with you is some things to
think about, as you are 

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00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:04,900
preparing to step into that next
role where you become the 

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00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,400
manager, you can start doing 
some preparation. 

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00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,800
And now, just by the questions 
you Scanned starting to prime 

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00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,600
your thinking and develop your 
mindset for what it, what is 

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00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:22,000
going to come next? 
So enjoy that and thank you for 

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00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,000
listening and I will talk to you
next week. 

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00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,500
Hey before you go. 
If you like this podcast, leave 

356
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:37,300
a review. 
Tell me why you listen and what 

357
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:39,500
has helped you. 
Thanks so much. 

358
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,900
I'll see you next. 
Time.