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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello, and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here. 
And I hope you're doing well 

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before we get started. 
Today, I have three short notes 

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for you and then we're going to 
dive into our big topic. 

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The first is, if you are not yet
following me on LinkedIn, I want

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to invite you to come on over. 
I have been posting more videos 

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lately and I think you'll enjoy 
them when I have an idea that I 

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want to teach on or speak to. 
I've been putting those in video

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form and uploading them to 
LinkedIn as a bonus. 

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You'll also get to see my home 
office space and you'll learn 

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very quickly that I like plants.
I never used to be a plant 

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person. 
I am now, but you can take a 

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look and see me working in my 
home office space. 

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If you join me on LinkedIn, I'll
put a link into the show notes 

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so you can very easily find it 
and then we can connect over 

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there too. 
So that's the first thing the 

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second and Wanted to share was, 
I had a listener who wrote in to

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me? 
I'm just going to call her M and

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M asked, if I would do an 
episode specifically on being a 

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younger manager who is managing 
people who are older than you. 

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And I know I've spoken to this a
little bit in some of my past 

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episodes because that was also 
my experience. 

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I manage people who are my 
parents age and some of that 

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age. 
It was a little bit awkward in 

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the beginning. 
I think for all of us but I'm 

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going to spend some more time 
going specifically into that 

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topic in a future episode. 
So thank you M for writing in 

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and requesting that topic and 
for all of you listening, if you

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want me to address a particular 
topic, you can always ask you 

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can go right to my website and 
find the contact page and send 

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me a note. 
And let me know what you would 

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like me to cover here on the 
podcast. 

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Cast. 
And then the third thing, I want

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to talk about briefly is the 
process that I use with all of 

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my clients and in a sense, it 
kind of connects with, you know,

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what, we were just talking 
about, which is, you know, when 

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we are growing as people when we
are in a new role. 

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When we are stepping into a 
higher level of leadership and 

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responsibility and learning how 
to manage people, there are sort

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of two parts to that. 
And one is, there are some very 

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specific skills. 
That you need to learn most 

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simply around communication. 
How do you communicate? 

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How do you give feedback? 
How do you speak up? 

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You know, how do you make 
decisions and then communicate 

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them in a way that will motivate
and inspire people? 

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Communication is all a whole set
of skills and then the other 

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piece that you're learning is, 
there's an internal mindset 

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shift, an internal sense of 
identity shift so far. 

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Ample thinking of yourself as 
the one who is able to speak up 

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or make a decision or delegate 
or give hard feedback or have a 

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tough conversation that sense 
of. 

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Oh, I'm not just the individual 
contributor. 

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I'm not, you know, what kind of 
like have this internalised 

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little kid mind where we think. 
Oh, you know, who am I to, to do

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those things or to say those 
things? 

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I'm just, I'm just me. 
But when we step into this role,

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Well, where we now have more 
responsibility for the people in

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our organization and for the 
outcomes that our team or that 

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our, you know, colleagues that 
we are creating. 

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We want to shift our mindset so 
that we can be very effective in

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that leadership role when other 
people are looking to us. 

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And so, we always are developing
these two parts. 

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The internal awareness part, 
right? 

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Like the mindset, and how you're
thinking and feeling, And then 

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there's specific skills that you
will need like the behaviors. 

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The actions, the things that you
do. 

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So another way to think of it is
there's the being part who are 

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you being and then there's the 
doing part, what are you doing? 

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And we want to address both of 
those things. 

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And so the process that I use 
with my clients in order to 

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create sustainable, change is 
really simple. 

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There are three steps number 
one, we Get present. 

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And when we're present that 
means that we're able to start 

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to understand what's happening 
now. 

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Right, rather than being too 
future-focused or two past 

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focused and that's also what 
creates a lot of the anxiety, 

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right? 
So when you're in a new rule and

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it you feel uncertain or you 
feel a little bit nervous about 

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what's going to happen. 
And if you're doing a good job 

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or not, it's because you're, you
know, in judgment and you're 

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comparing yourself to a Share a 
past like you're not as much in 

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the present as you are thinking 
about and having opinions, about

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kind of what it all means. 
And we can get very future or 

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very past focused. 
And that also is what creates 

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the overwhelm and the stress. 
So the first step is to just get

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present with what's going on now
and who are you now? 

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And let's just take a look at 
what's going on in the moment. 

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Number one, and the second step 
is we want to bring a lot of 

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curiosity. 
T. 

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So, we want to be curious about 
you specifically, right? 

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Like what are some of the, you 
know, the reasons and the 

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stories and the the factors that
have contributed to what you're 

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experiencing now, and how you're
thinking. 

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And the decisions you're making,
like, let's get really curious 

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about that. 
And then, the last part is, we 

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want to be kind in the process. 
So changes, often uncomfortable 

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uncertainty is off. 
And uncomfortable when you have 

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both of these things going on at
the same time. 

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The last thing we need is to put
judgment and pressure on 

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ourselves like oh I should 
already know how to do this or 

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why do I not know how to do this
yet? 

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Or why is this hard for me? 
Or you don't actually grow more?

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When we put all that pressure in
judgment on ourselves and we 

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might make some missteps along 
the way. 

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So we need that kindness towards
self as you're going through 

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this process of change and 
growth, that is what makes it 

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sustainable. 
That's what makes it really 

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stick, which is, you know, kind 
of the difference between, you 

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know, trying to either 
over-consume and change. 

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Things abruptly like that takes 
a lot of effort, right? 

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But when we take small micro 
steps, we make small micro 

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adjustments, we're able to make 
Continuous, gentle, sustainable 

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change and that is what I get 
excited about. 

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So I wanted to share that 
process with you because I don't

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think that I've talked about it 
too much here, and it really is 

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kind of, you know, what makes 
the link between a concept and 

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then that really lasting 
implementation is when we have 

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that process to make the concept
or the The content really sync 

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up with who you are as a person,
and your particular personality 

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traits and just who you are. 
So those are my three things 

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that I wanted to share before we
got started. 

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And our main topic today is how 
to be assertive. 

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This is feedback that a lot of 
new managers get when they are. 

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You know when you're moving into
this higher-level role of 

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responsibility And Leadership is
they will say now that you are a

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manager we would like you to be 
more assertive and that can 

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sometimes feel like weird 
feedback like what does that 

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mean? 
And is it, you know, is it have 

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I been doing something wrong 
this whole time, you know, I 

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never got that feedback before. 
What's going on that? 

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Now I'm supposed to be assertive
like what does that mean? 

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And so you know number one I 
just want to frame this. 

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This is not a criticism. 
If someone says you need to be 

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more assertive, I want you. 
You to think of it like an 

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invitation to take up more 
space. 

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Like what if that was all that? 
It meant that being assertive is

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simply an invitation to take up 
more space. 

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And what I find is that when we 
receive that specific feedback 

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to be more assertive, it is 
often coming from, you know, a 

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manager or from from someone in 
a higher position of power, who 

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believes that you have more. 
Our that you can offer, but that

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you are holding yourself back. 
It's almost like a signal 

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saying, hey, it seems like 
you're making yourself smaller 

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than you need to be. 
And I really interested because 

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I value your perspective and 
what you would like to say about

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things. 
And so we would like to see 

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become more assertive. 
Like can you bring more of 

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yourself into the space? 
There's no reason. 

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To make yourself so small or to 
hold back. 

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And I think one of the reasons 
this can feel uncomfortable when

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we are asking, you know, okay. 
Like so how do I be more 

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assertive as more assertive, is 
because we've become successful 

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through keeping ourselves 
smaller. 

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Like, I've had, you know, one of
my clients that specifically 

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told me, hey, Kim, the reason 
I've become so successful in my 

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career is because I keep a low 
profile, I like to fly. 

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Beneath the radar don't like to 
call a lot of attention to 

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myself, right? 
So it can be a strategy that has

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helped us in a lot of different 
ways. 

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And now you're in a place where,
okay you're going to need to 

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update your strategy for the new
situation that you're in. 

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This can also show up if you're 
a person who leans towards 

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people pleasing or over giving, 
if you are a person, Person who 

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tends to stay quiet because you 
kind of judge yourself. 

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Well, actually, either two 
directions. 

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You either judge yourself. 
Like, I don't know if I have 

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anything of value to say, or you
judge the room you're in. 

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You judge the person you're with
and you think I don't think they

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would listen to me. 
Anyways, I don't want to push 

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into this conversation because I
think this pertinent of the 

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person that I'm talking with or 
the That I'm in. 

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I don't really believe that they
will listen to and value what I 

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have to say. 
So when we start to examine, you

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know, how to be assertive, there
are a couple of things we want 

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to get curious. 
About one, is we want to 

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understand what is your current 
behavior that is registering. 

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As not assertive, is it around a
particular relationship? 

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Is it around a particular 
context, getting a little more 

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information in a little More 
clarity about what that means 

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and what that looks like can be 
really helpful. 

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It's also possible that being 
assertive might have something 

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to do with boundaries, like, 
boundaries being an agreement. 

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You create with yourself and 
then communicating that to 

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others and then making decisions
based on that agreement and that

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requires being clear. 
It requires speaking up, it also

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requires being aware of What you
need and sometimes, especially 

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if we're very oriented into 
people-pleasing and kind of high

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service orientation. 
The tendency is to prioritize 

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others over our self and so 
that, you know, the skill and 

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the mindset of being assertive, 
can call us to look at our 

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boundaries practice, it can call
us to become more clear and 

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aware of what our needs are, 
what? 

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What are Agreements are because 
you know, when we're thinking 

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about being assertive, it's like
well what is it that I want to 

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assert, right? 
What is it? 

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That I want to put forward, what
is the perspective or the 

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request? 
Or the idea? 

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I want to contribute into this 
space. 

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And I think one of the reasons 
to I've seen folks, who struggle

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with this feedback of, being 
more assertive is because If you

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are, someone who has 
successfully operated by holding

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back and staying quiet and 
putting everyone else's needs 

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ahead of your own, then actually
putting forward your ideas or 

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your needs or your perspectives 
can feel a little 

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confrontational. 
It can feel a little bit like 

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conflict. 
T' and you might worry that it 

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will come across as being rude. 
And so it's kind of like we we 

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need to recalibrate, that 
internal sense because being 

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assertive is not the same as 
being aggressive or dominating a

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conversation. 
Being assertive is not the same 

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as being argumentative. 
It is not being combative. 

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Right? 
It really is simply 0. 

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Like, here's a perspective. 
I want to put forward into the 

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room and I want to do that 
clearly. 

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And I'm doing it because I 
understand that it's valuable. 

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And I want to specifically 
highlight that being a value 

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does not mean being right or 
having perfect information that 

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I'm thinking, two of my listener
who wrote to me about being a 

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younger manager, and I'll talk 
about this more in a different 

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episode. 
But Sometimes we hold back 

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because we think I'm the 
youngest. 

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I don't have the same background
as everybody here. 

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I don't know as much as 
everybody here. 

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So I will just hold back and 
what we miss when we're thinking

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like that, is that we miss that.
Our perspective is valuable 

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because it is our perspective 
and it will add something to the

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conversation that would not 
otherwise wise be there. 

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So the value is not in your, 
your education. 

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Your value is not about, you 
know, how old you are. 

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Your value is not about, you 
know, the years of experience 

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you have or don't have in 
comparison to other people. 

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The value. 
You offer is a perspective that 

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you carry because of who you are
and because of the, you know, 

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experience that you've had 
whatever It is and sometimes 

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being the youngest person or the
newest person, the value, you're

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adding is that perspective of 
the newest person or the 

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youngest person and on the flip 
side, it's also true. 

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Sometimes the value you add is 
being the person who has had the

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most number of years on the 
planet or the value you add is 

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because you came into this 
industry from a different 

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industry. 
So you look at things a little 

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bit differently. 
The value you add is your 

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perspective, it's not about out 
the volume of information or 

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being right about something. 
It's just hot. 

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I have a perspective, I'd like 
to add and by doing that by 

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asserting that by placing that 
perspective into the room, you 

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are offering value to everyone 
in that conversation and you are

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helping to uplift that 
conversation and all of the 

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ideas that are happening there. 
And in order to do that, we need

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to be willing To go through the 
discomfort of being seen of 

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being heard of trusting. 
I'm going to put this forward 

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and I'm going to trust that 
people will receive it. 

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I'm going to trust that. 
Even if someone doesn't, it's 

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okay, not a problem, right? 
Like we're just kind of building

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that muscle of. 
Let me be seen, let me be heard.

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Let me take up a little Bit more
space. 

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Let me put my perspective 
forward and so that's why often,

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you know, the conversation 
around being assertive, goes 

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hand in hand, with being 
confident, it goes hand in hand 

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with feeling self assured that 
sense that, you know, I can 

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still share my thoughts and 
share my ideas and I don't have 

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to be right and I'm not trying 
to prove anything but I have 

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something that might be 
interesting. 

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So I'm going to put this here. 
And people can use it and you 

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know, do with it, what they 
like, right when we get into the

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skill of advocacy, that's a 
little even, you know, more than

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assertive assertive. 
I think of as here's a 

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perspective I want to put 
forward into the room and an 

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advocacy is actually when you're
speaking up on behalf of like 

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you have a perspective that you 
would like to put forward on 

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behalf of someone. 
And so you often have, you know,

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kind of the the Reasons why and 
you're thinking through like 

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this is what I recommend that we
do and here's why so they often 

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go together, one story I want to
share with you I was talking 

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with a client and one of the 
things we've been working on was

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boundaries and the pattern that 
we discovered was the pattern of

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first being very 
people-pleasing, very over 

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accommodating and not speaking 
up and saying what her needs 

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were saying. 
It her perspective was but she 

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would be very over accommodating
and just hope that someone would

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see and understand what she 
needed. 

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Then what happened was that if 
her needs were not seen, if they

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were overlooked, if it didn't 
go, the way she wanted, she 

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would go from over accommodating
to becoming resentful, and she 

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would become passive aggressive.
She said, I didn't even mean to 

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be, but it would just kind of 
leak out, like, I would become 

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snarky. 
I would Do you know D prioritize

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their messages? 
I started to notice, I became 

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00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,600
just very passive aggressive 
because I was feeling very 

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resentful and then after the 
resentment kind of built up, 

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what would happen is she then 
would try to be assertive. 

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But what actually happened was 
she became very defensive and 

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she became combative and she was
kind of armoring against, you 

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know, this person and she would 
feel like everything was a 

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00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,200
fight, like it was really 
uncomfortable. 

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And when You learned actually 
about boundaries. 

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So she would check in first with
herself with what she needed. 

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She learned to be more 
comfortable communicating 

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clearly and simply and she 
learned how to become assertive 

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the sense of it's okay to take 
up more space, it's okay to 

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Simply put forward, an idea, a 
request, a perspective, a 

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boundary and to do that without 
without needing to control the 

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other person. 
Without needing, you know, 

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something specific to happen in 
order for her to feel safe. 

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It was like this, just this 
weight lifted off of her and she

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thought, oh, I think I get it 
now, right. 

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It's not about being 
confrontational, being 

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assertive, is just kind of being
right sized. 

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It's, it's just being invited to
be more fully. 

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Engaged and present in the room 
and it was something she had to 

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learn because, you know, a lot 
of her background was about 

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needing to make herself smaller 
in order to succeed in a very 

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00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,800
difficult environment, right? 
Flying below the radar. 

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In order to avoid people 
behaving very unkindly towards 

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00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,700
her, like it was a very 
effective success strategy at 

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00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,400
the time and for the context she
was in. 

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So kind of the higher a lesson 
for all of us is that we learn 

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00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,400
strategies for communication and
for relating to people, that 

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will help us to succeed in that 
environment. 

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But we don't want to become 
attached to that one way of 

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being and that one way of doing 
things. 

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So if you are receiving the 
feedback, you know, I'd love to 

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see you be more assertive. 
Consider that a sign. 

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00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:45,000
To take up a bit more space to 
come more fully into the 

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conversation. 
People are actually curious and 

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00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,400
interested in your perspective 
and what you have to say and 

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00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,100
what you have to share and part 
of that will be uncomfortable if

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00:21:57,100 --> 00:22:01,900
you're not used to doing that. 
But that's okay little 

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00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:04,900
discomfort is okay. 
You will survive it. 

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I can help you. 
And just see this actually as a 

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00:22:07,608 --> 00:22:10,500
really positive sign. 
Like this is a sign of growth. 

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00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:13,500
It is super normal especially as
you're growing into higher 

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00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,000
levels of visibility 
responsibility and Leadership. 

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So that's what I had to share 
with you today. 

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Thank you so much for listening 
and I am taking new clients. 

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00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,800
If you want to work with me 
one-on-one, sign up for a 

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00:22:29,808 --> 00:22:32,300
consultation, so we can talk 
about it. 

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00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,300
I'll put a link to my calendar 
in the show notes below so you 

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00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,200
can easily find a time and I'll 
see you next time. 

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00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:45,800
Bye. 
Hey, before you go, if you like 

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00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,200
this podcast, please leave a 
review. 

343
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:52,200
Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

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00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,700
Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.