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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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I've been thinking a lot lately 
about burnout in part because I 

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am going to be on a panel at a 
conference coming up and that's 

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the topic that we're going to be
addressing and it's for this 

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group of people that are all in 
the legal profession. 

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Some of them are lawyers. 
Some of them are Staff or they 

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work adjacent to the law. 
So I was thinking about my back 

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story because I also had become 
a lawyer, but then chose a 

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different path. 
And one of the things I wanted 

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to share with you, as I was 
thinking about this in planning,

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this was, you know, for me, when
I went into the law, one of the 

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things that I found to be really
fascinating. 

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Is that the story of the law is 
the story of human conflict? 

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Act. 
How do we as humans address 

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conflict when it comes up? 
Whether it's in a business, 

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whether it's between strangers, 
whether it's within a family. 

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So much about the study of law 
is the study of human stories 

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and what happens when we come 
into some kind of friction, or 

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some kind of problem, and the 
human part was always the most 

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interesting part to me and it's 
part of I ended up going down 

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the path that I went to with my 
career was that the human 

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element was so interesting. 
And especially within the legal 

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profession, where the job is to 
be an advocate to professionally

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speak up on behalf of your 
client. 

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I also thought it was really 
interesting how so often lawyers

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had a hard time speaking up for 
themselves which was why There 

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was so much burnout. 
This is one of my observations 

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and so I became very interested 
to and how do we create norms 

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and a sense of professional 
culture, that can create 

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outcomes that aren't that great.
And everyone is really smart and

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everybody knows this is the 
thing that's very common. 

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And so even in the legal 
profession, where the job is to 

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be a professional. 
Kit lawyers can have a hard time

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speaking up for themselves and, 
you know, and then as I changed 

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and moved careers and became 
more focused on the human part 

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on the coaching and the 
facilitating and supporting 

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people in work and life, it just
all started to click for me. 

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That's something that I wanted 
to continue to study and help 

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other people with. 
And that brings us Into our 

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topic today where I want to talk
about presence and what that 

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means and why it's important. 
And I also wanted to give a 

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celebration and a shout-out to 
one of my clients to Laurel and 

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she is starting a new job and we
started working together earlier

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this year and she specifically 
was really interested in growing

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her feeling of confidence and in
being able to You speak up for 

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herself and what she told me as 
she was celebrating that she's 

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caught in this new job and just 
the whole journey that she's 

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been on over the last six months
of us working together. 

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I asked her, what would you now?
Tell yourself of like three 

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months ago, what would you want 
her to know? 

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And she thought about it and she
said, I wouldn't want to tell 

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myself that you can identify 
those feelings of imposter 

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syndrome. 
And remember to trust yourself? 

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And trust that your skills and 
drive are enough. 

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And it felt so incredible to see
her really reflect on that and 

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understand that and really own 
that as she's continuing to grow

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in her career and into this next
step and it was such a great 

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message. 
I wanted you to have it as well.

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What would happen if you trusted
yourself and remind yourself 

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that your skills and your drive 
are enough and this Ties into 

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our topic today of presence. 
So presence. 

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I want you to think of it as a 
quality of attention. 

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Where is your attention is that 
in this present moment? 

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Or is it someplace else? 
And when we're not present, 

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there's a good chance that your 
mind. 

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It's like left of the room and 
it's now comparing its comparing

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yourself to other people. 
I hear this a lot when my 

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clients come to me and say I'm 
the youngest person on the team.

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I don't have as much experience 
as other people, I'm Worried 

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that I won't be good enough. 
I'm worried that because my 

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career path went this way, 
instead of that way that there's

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going to be something you know 
wrong with me. 

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I have to prove myself like when
you're not in the present and 

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when you go into that comparing 
place where you're comparing 

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yourself to that people around 
you or to the imagined, perfect 

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version of yourself. 
You probably have a version of 

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yourself that lives in your 
imagination. 

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And there's something about this
person that you look up to as 

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the perfect version of yourself,
and they have the perfect 

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background and they had, the 
perfect parents and the perfect 

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relationships. 
And they went to the perfect 

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school and they got the perfect 
grades and they have the 

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perfect, like, you know, 
whatever, whatever that kind of 

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fantasy. 
Imagine self is, it might even 

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be this version of you if you 
had perfect. 

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To discipline and you followed 
through and we're timely and did

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all the things. 
You know you're supposed to do, 

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you know this imaginary version 
of how your life would be. 

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That is an illusion. 
It doesn't exist, but we can 

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spend a lot of time in this 
comparison and then that 

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undermines any roads your 
confidence because when you're 

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doing that, you're not Looking 
with value and respect and 

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appreciation at who you actually
are and the path that truly 

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brought you, here we are. 
Overlooking that your talent, 

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your drive, your experience is 
enough. 

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Like, how can that be true? 
Let's, let's talk about this. 

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So when we're not present, we go
into comparison mode when we're 

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not present, we can also get Lee
overwhelmed, and it's this sense

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of, oh my gosh. 
There are so many things to do, 

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where there are so many people 
who require my time, there are 

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so many things that need my 
attention and I'm not entirely 

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sure which one to choose first 
to focus on because I feel 

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guilty or I feel like I should 
be able to do all of it like 

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when our attention is not in the
present moment, it's very easy. 

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Easy to get overwhelmed as 
opposed to right when we're 

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present the alternative. 
What it sounds like is okay. 

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So here's what's going on right 
now. 

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As far as I can tell based on X 
Y and Z, I'm going to choose to 

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focus on this for these reasons.
We start to tap into your 

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strategic thinking, which is 
what do we need to focus on now 

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and why? 
And then we understand what 

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we're going to let go of and we 
unhook our attention from those 

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other things. 
So you can focus your attention 

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on what you've chosen and attend
to that. 

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And when we have that sense of 
focus, then even when the world 

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around us is chaotic, or the 
people around us are really 

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Anxious and Urgent when we are 
present, it allows us to bring 

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into any situation the measure 
of being grounded and calm and 

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very, very clear about who we 
are. 

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What we're here to do and why. 
So, another thing, you'll notice

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when your attention is not in 
the present moment, when we're 

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not present, anxiety is really 
easy because what that means is 

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your Attention has gone into the
future, you've played out some 

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worst-case scenarios, you've 
probably scared yourself about 

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the things that might go wrong, 
or you simply tried to imagine 

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all the possible variations of 
what might happen and then plan 

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for those and then you feel 
overwhelmed because you got all 

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these different scenarios that 
you're trying to track and plan 

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for. 
And it's this way that we're, 

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you know, I think as humans were
so Desiring of certainty and 

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control. 
And when we're facing 

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uncertainty or the unknown, one 
of the ways we try to solve for 

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it in our mind is to plot out 
all the possible variations. 

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And then kind of, you know, we 
create this internal schematic 

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like this. 
This internal diagram if this 

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then that, but that can start to
feel really overwhelming and 

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really heavy, and then we're not
paying attention. 

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Shinto. 
What's actually happening in 

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this moment because we're 
looking at those internal notes 

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of how we are anticipating the 
future to go. 

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And that feels like, anxiety, we
get worried and fearful about 

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the future and what we can, and 
can't control. 

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And then the other thing and 
this is, I think so. 

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So important to remember in 
relationship Is that when you 

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are not present in a 
relationship that will erode 

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trust? 
And you know what? 

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This feels like if you have been
in a relationship and you feel 

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like, even if the person is 
physically there, you feel like 

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they're emotionally or like 
their attention is just 

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someplace else. 
You know, they might be in the 

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room with you and they might be 
looking at you. 

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But you feel like they're kind 
of looking through you, or you 

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feel like they're not really 
listening because they're not 

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really present, we can sense 
this and it starts young as 

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children. 
We understand the quality of 

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attention that we are receiving 
from the people around us. 

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We're so finely tuned to 
perceive that and we'll start to

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feel less trusting if we And 
that another person is not fully

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present with us either because 
they're distracted, their mind 

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is someplace else or if we're 
feeling that they're in a lot of

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Judgment of us. 
If we feel like this person is 

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judging us, we think all that 
are not really listening. 

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They're judging me. 
We tend to withdraw, we tend to 

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shut down. 
Sometimes we're not right about 

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that. 
Like, we can be with someone and

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they're actually judging 
themselves, but we are able to 

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perceive, oh, this person is 
holding a lot of judgment and 

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because we're humans, we tend to
take things personally. 

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I have an episode about that 
earlier. 

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In this podcast, I should 
probably revisit it because it's

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something that comes up so 
often. 

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And when we Overlook that and we
forget how to deal with that, 

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that can actually create a lot 
of friction, and a lot of just 

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negative outcomes for us. 
And for the people that we care 

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about both at work and in our 
lives. 

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So the quality of your attention
is really valuable and very 

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important. 
Aunt and in the workplace and 

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when you're thinking about the 
work that is on your plate to do

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and you're thinking about the 
quality of relationships that 

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you wish to have with the people
on your team, with your manager 

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with cross-functional Partners, 
there's a lot that you will 

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accomplish when you start to be 
very intentional about the 

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quality of your attention. 
So these are things to watch out

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for being The comparing mind 
State feeling, a lot of 

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overwhelm having, a lot of 
anxiety because of future 

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casting and future thinking. 
And the awareness that we can 

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erode trust unintentionally when
our attention is not in the 

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present moment or if it's in the
present moment, carrying a lot 

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of judgment. 
So here's what happens when your

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attention is in the present 
moment, when the presence that 

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you bring in. 
Into a situation is in the 

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moment. 
It allows you to be focused and 

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when you're able to focus, when 
you're able to place your 

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attention on one thing that 
creates a feeling of calm. 

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That's that feeling of even 
though there's all of this chaos

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and noise and urgency around me,
that's fine. 

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That's like the wind howling 
outside this. 

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Very calm and cozy, space that I
have and when you have that 

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ability to access an internal 
sense of calm, it allows you to 

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be relaxed. 
And I don't mean relaxed like 

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feet up on the couch, you know, 
taking a nap but that kind of 

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relaxed where your body is not 
carrying unnecessary tension. 

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And so you're able to perceive 
with greater Clarity what is 

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really going on here, and it 
allows you to become responsive 

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in the most useful and 
appropriate way. 

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That level of clarity creates a 
sense of Surance. 

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It allows you to address 
difficult situations more easily

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and it instills a sense of 
confidence in the people around 

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you because they see. 
Okay so this person is not you 

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know you're both not freaking 
out with reactivity but you're 

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not carrying this burden of 
stress in your and you know 

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crunched up shoulders and for me
it when I'm feeling that sense 

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of stress and I'm kind of 
distracted. 

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It often shows up, right in my 
eyebrows, like I can feel my 

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eyebrows and my forehead getting
really tense. 

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And in fact, one of the ways 
that I've learned to just check 

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in with myself, is just to ask 
Kim, where are your eyebrows 

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right now? 
Where are your shoulders? 

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Are they all crunched up? 
Okay, let's take a breath and 

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let that soften a little bit 
because it doesn't actually 

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help. 
And so when we're able to come 

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and be present in the moment. 
And were able to access a bit of

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focus, create that space of 
internal, calm to find a bit 

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more years to relax. 
The unnecessary tension then it 

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feels like the weight lifts, it 
allows us to create more 

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connection and trust with 
others. 

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And this is that really 
beautiful sense of. 

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I might not have all the right 
answers but I am I'm here in 

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this moment and I have every 
faith that we will find a path 

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through this together because we
are right. 

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Like we are capable. 
We are intelligent and like we 

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are here. 
Like I've got your back, let's 

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figure this out. 
That is so valuable, we all feel

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better and then we work better 
when we are in that state of 

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being present and feeling 
connection and feeling trust. 

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And it's really easy to lose 
track of. 

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That quality of presence partly.
If you are surrounded by other 

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anxious, people, it's easy to 
match their anxiousness and, you

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know, just like operate that way
on kind of a Other basis, but 

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also distraction is a thing. 
We've got lots of that in the 

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world around us and I love to, 
to remind my students, you know,

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and this is something that I 
really discovered in my 

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meditation and mindfulness 
practice because you're a human,

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you are really intelligent, 
you're very smart, but also 

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because you're human, you're 
very forgetful and so even 

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though, you know, conceptually 
and on an intellectual level. 

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That being present is valuable 
and perhaps even more enjoyable,

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you will forget and you will get
caught up in a distraction and 

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that is human. 
And that is fine, but the skill,

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we want to build is we want to 
grow your own awareness so that 

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you understand more quickly when
you've dropped being present, so

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that you can then come back to 
that state when you wish to I 

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also want to acknowledge that 
sometimes we're not good at 

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being present because the 
present moment can be very 

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uncomfortable and sometimes 
we're like I would rather not 

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deal with this discomfort in the
present moment and it actually 

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is a source of Escape for me in 
order to be distracted or to 

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ruminate or to compare myself 
and that's a pattern that we can

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learn when we're really young 
and haven't developed this. 

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Skills and abilities to deal 
with big emotions and big stuff.

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And so, if that is your pattern 
to you, it's okay. 

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It's a thing that you can learn 
alternative ways of dealing with

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that, and it's also just a call 
to bring a lot of compassion to 

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yourself. 
When you notice, oh, yeah, my 

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tendency is to try to escape the
present moment because it hasn't

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felt safe. 
Or it just has felt very painful

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or uncomfortable. 
So those are some ideas. 

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I wanted to offer to you. 
Today is the value of your 

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presence, the quality of your 
attention, that this is a thing 

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that is learnable and trainable.
You can make it a habit just in 

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the same way that your default 
habit might be distracted or 

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comparing or going into 
self-judgment. 

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You can it's like strengthening 
this other muscle and we do it 

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in All steps and we do it 
repeatedly in order to gain that

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ability and to have it available
more quickly and more often. 

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So thank you so much for 
listening. 

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If you want to do this, work 
with me one-on-one and really 

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take, you know, the concept that
I share with you here on the 

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podcast and really go into the 
work of implementing it. 

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This is what I do with my 
clients in coaching and one of 

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the things I love about working 
with you one-on-one, is that it 

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gives us the space and the time 
to really understand how do you 

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personally connect with the 
concepts and how will you 

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specifically Implement these 
ideas and, you know, Concepts 

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and teachings in your specific 
life and with Specific work 

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situation and personality that 
you have. 

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This is also what makes it more 
fun than just like reading a 

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book or listening to the show in
and of itself. 

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So, if you want to do this work 
and like a deeper more full and 

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personally, engaged way, I want 
to invite you to come coach with

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me, we work together for six 
months. 

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I'll tell you all about the 
details when we get on a 

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consultation together, which is 
where you tell me more about, 

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About you. 
You can answer or you can ask me

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any questions you want about me 
and how will work together. 

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And it's where we get really 
clear about what your goals are 

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and how I will help you get 
there, how you will Implement 

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them and identifying what's in 
the way so that you can start to

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make progress on those goals and
desires a lot more quickly and a

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lot more sustainably. 
So thank you so much for 

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listening and I will see you 
next time. 

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Hey, before you go if you like 
this podcast, leave a review. 

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Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

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Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.