Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome to episode 28
3 stories about promotions. And there will also be kind of a
bonus story as I was planning out this episode.
I realized that each of these stories points to a bigger
concept that I'm really looking forward to sharing with you
today. And before we get started, I
want to give a shout out to To my student, Terry, she took my
class for new managers and some of the feedback she shared with
me was that even where there were some familiar Concepts, it
was still nice to get some very useful phrases and Framing and
also helpful to view poor management by others as a lack
of Education or perspective rather than as a character flaw.
And I so appreciate that, and it makes me so happy when my
students have these insights because I found, it really is
true. And it really is valuable that a
very small shift in perspective can have a very outsized effect
on the way that you communicate, the way that you have your
experience at work. I mean the difference between
having a manager who's not doing a great job and thinking either,
Ash, this person has a character flaw, which doesn't feel great,
and you feel sort of Trapped like this person can't possibly
change and having not a great manager experience.
But instead thinking, oh, this person hasn't learned how to
manage people effectively. I mean, it's a skill set.
They just haven't learned how to do that, well, yet that can
really change your Personal experience of that situation, as
well as shift, the way that you communicate and interact with
this person that can turn into significant positive, change for
you for them for everybody that you all work with.
So I wanted to highlight that. It's a really great reminder
that even though relationships can be complicated and the
workplace can be complicated. There are some fundamental
things. That might be already familiar
to you and when you look at them in a new light it really makes a
big difference. So isn't that nice to know you
don't have to read all the books and do all the things sometimes?
It's just a small thing that actually helps lighten.
The load in a significant way. So let us now talk about
promotions. I have three stories for you.
And the first one is from years ago.
Ago when I was on a team and then I was promoted to manage
that team. And so if you have ever Had to
manage friends, like you were peers before.
You are all the same level and then something changed.
You got promoted and now you're their manager.
What happened with me is number one.
I was really excited. Hey, I got this promotion.
This is so great. And then I had this moment of
realizing, oh, like, how is my relationship different?
Now to my friends, and they were asking the same question, and in
fact, one of them came to me and he said, Kim, I want to
congratulate you on your promotion.
I think you'll be a great manager, but I, I don't know how
to be friends with you now. And I'll tell you when he said
that, it kind of gave me pause and I thought, oh no, I didn't
want to lose a friend here, but I really appreciated that he
said that and I've always remembered it all of these years
later because what I didn't understand really, until that
moment is that, when I stepped into a formal manager role, the
powered, I'm at Dynamic changed. So, before when we were
colleagues, and we had the Same manager, we could go to lunch
together and complain about our manager or talk about, you know,
what is leadership doing. We could just have conversations
as people who are similarly situated in our relationship to
the organization. But when I got promoted all of a
sudden, I was the manager. So if he was having a difficult
time, I would be the one that he was complaining about or feeling
frustrated with so So that was a thing to acknowledge but also
moving into a manager role now meant that I had real power over
him and over everyone on the team.
And I don't mean that in an egoic kind of way or like in an
inflated sense of self kind of way but in this very real very
practical way at the end of the year, When I was doing
performance reviews, I had the discretion to decide how
promotions could be distributed, how raises and money, and salary
and bonuses could be distributed.
And the way it worked in my organization at the time, was,
as a manager, I was given like this pool of money.
And I could distribute that in, you know, percentages to all of
the teams. So there was kind of this
expectation that if it went exactly evenly, everyone would
get like a 2% increase. I don't remember what it is, I'm
making this up, but like a 2% increase.
But if someone had in a really great job, I could give them,
you know, 2.5 or even three percent.
But that would then mean reducing the available amount to
give to others. Hours.
So, when you think about it in those terms, on a very practical
level, having that kind of power over someone's life, over their
money, their salary that is really significant.
And so when I moved into that role and my friend said, hey, I
don't know how we can be friends anymore.
You're now my boss, this changes things a little bit, it really
was the first time that I thought about what that meant On
that level not just about me getting a promotion me getting
you know, a salary increase me getting a new title, but what
did this mean in the relationship?
I had with with other people. So I want to share this with you
because if you find yourself in a situation where you are being
promoted to now manage folks, who had been friends and now,
there's a power change. Now, you're a Officially their
manager. I want to offer that it is
valuable to really acknowledge that it might feel awkward both
for you. But also for the folks on your
team and in some cases it might be valuable perhaps in your
one-on-ones or even in a team meeting.
If everybody has worked with you as a peer before to Simply
acknowledge, hey, this might feel kind of weird that I'm now
your manager and if that changes the currency And have
conversations we have that's totally fine because when you
are in that manager role, your job is to support your team to
do the best work that they can. And at the same time, your
responsibilities to the organization shifts a little bit
because you now we'll have more insight and more visibility to
other things that are happening. Some of which you will not be
allowed to tell to your friends who port to you.
Because there will be information that you are
required to hold in confidence until it's officially announced
so oh related to that too. If you find that you are not
sure how to show up. You know.
Am I a friend? Am I your manager and holding
you accountable for things? You can also be explicit about
that too, and you can do that with kindness and with Clarity.
So people know, am I talking to you in my friend relationship or
am I talking to you as my manager?
And is this going to have a you know is this going to show up on
my record somewhere? Right?
Like what is our agreement around confidentiality and
around privacy of what I share with you?
You want to be aware that there is now this new Dynamic
happening and you want to be respectful of that.
So that is our story. Number one, I'm getting promoted
to becoming the manager of people with whom you are friends
and had been peers before. And, you know, final note on
this story is that if you feel uncomfortable or awkward or like
you don't know how to navigate that that change.
I just want to let you know that that's a normal thing, you know,
a lot of us like where else would you have?
Practice making that transition in the shape of that
relationship. It might be new for you.
So if it feels awkward that's totally normal and totally fine.
Okay. Story number two.
This one is a little bit about scope creep but there's also a
caveat. So one of the other things that
happens when you have a desire to get promoted from within an
organization, is that you may be required to demonstrate that.
You have all of the qualifications and that you can
perform at that level and I'm thinking specifically, Of a
woman that I worked with this was, oh gosh, this was a long
time ago, this was very early in my career and, you know, we were
peers and she was going for a promotion and for I want to say
it was like three months. This role was open and she had
talked with her manager. And she said, I really want that
promotion. I want that role and he said
great. So what you need to do is you
need to do the job so we can see evidence that you have Have you
know that you can perform at the level required to to officially
receive this promotion and designation.
And so for three months, her scope of work changed, she was
taking on more responsibility and at the end of that period of
time, she was awarded this promotion and everything was
great. And I mention this because I
think this is a very common practice within organizations,
which is You're there at a level, you want to go a level up
and they say well let's start to expand your responsibilities.
Now to ensure that you can perform at the level required
and that you can, you know, really take this on and
sometimes that's fine. When we know that there is a
dedicated check-in point when it's part of the conversation of
your advancement But sometimes not necessarily because people
are malicious or have a bad intention but let's just be
honest, sometimes people we get a little bit lazy we get a
little imprecise or we don't make explicit hey the reason why
I'm doing this is because I want that I want that role I want
that promotion. So what can happen is this idea
of scope Creep. So, your scope of responsibility
expands you're taking on more responsibility, you're doing
more things, you're taking on a bigger, a bigger piece of work,
and it's grown beyond what you initially came in for, or what,
initially the role was described at, and you just end up taking
on more work and nobody seems to know.
Otis or they say, yeah you know, this will be really good for you
to get a promotion, you know someday.
I don't know when. But like, sometime in the future
and you want to be aware of when this is happening, because it
can be easy to fall into the pattern of just over giving
without speaking with Clarity and being direct about I want to
get promoted. How do we do this, right?
I have also had students who have brought this to me and in
coaching them through how to think about it, what I shared
with them. And what I'll share with you is,
you can go to your manager, when your manager is is asking you to
take on more things. And you can also pause the
conversation and say, okay, and let's talk about how this is
going to get me into a promotion.
How does this going to map to expanding my title?
And my compensation in a way that accurately reflects the
work I'm doing now? And I want to, you know, kind of
pause and repeat that a little bit because there's actually a
distinction I want to make in our own mind.
We think about get I want to get that promotion.
It can be easier to frame the conversation.
As hey, my scope of work has been expanding.
Let's bring my title and compensation.
To match and reflect accurately. What?
That is and that can feel more collaborative, we can feel less
combative, it can feel less like something to overcome and it's
sometimes these subtleties and how you approach the
conversation that can make it easier for people to say yes to
you like make it easy for your manager to say yes, of course,
we ought to To change your title or give you a promotion in order
to accurately, reflect the performance that you're
delivering the work that you're doing.
We can see this this track record of really how you've
grown. So there's always, you know,
it's very common that there's going to be a sort of this
overlap of you expanding what you do, and then your title and
salary, and all of that, adjusting to match that But
remember to make sure that you have an eye on it, that you are
paying attention that you are keeping a record of evidence of
how you are growing and contributing in a bigger way.
All of that will also make it easier for your manager to
support you in being promoted. Okay.
So that is our story number two about scope creep.
Just be aware that sometimes it happens and we want to make sure
it's not like a forever kind of thing.
We want you to be very intentional about it so that it
really is supporting your bigger goals and what it is that you
want. okay, my third story for you about promotions is my
favorite of this set because this is one of the things I feel
most proud of in my own career and especially when I was in a
managerial role at this other company many years ago and when
I came into this manager position, One of my friends who
was now on my team, right? So we also negotiated that and I
really credit her for being very direct with me.
And she said, all right. Kim, you're now my manager, we
have to have a talk. We need to talk.
I said, Okay. And she said, look, I have been
getting highest marks on my last performance reviews.
Like for the last 5 years or more, she had been getting
highest marks on her performance reviews exceeds expectations.
Time and she said, I am tired of this role.
I want to get promoted. I deserve it.
I've been doing way more work than my job was originally
scoped for and I don't know, how can you help me?
And she asked me this and I thought, oh my gosh, I don't
know how either, I don't know what that.
What that even entails I don't know how to do that.
Like I just got here. I just became a manager.
I Don't even know what other, you know, options are available
in the company. It was a very big organization
and it could sometimes feel very difficult to navigate, but I
really listened to her and she was right.
She had been performing at a very high level consistently for
years and some of the challenges that I knew that she was facing
had nothing to do with who she was or her level performance,
right? Like what I was seeing was that
Organization had gone through a few different re orgs.
So levels were added levels, were cut different departments
changed and part of that created, just a kind of
confusion over. How do you plan forward
movement, right? How do you plan where you want
to go up to next? When the structures are
changing. So that was a question and the
other Thing that I thought about was because, you know, our
managers had been changing. Also as a result of this, it was
very difficult to find someone to advocate for her to find
someone who had like higher level of visibility who could
say. Okay.
You know, here's how you move through this organization and so
there was a lot of uncertainty and just, I could feel her
frustration and at the same time, And I was thinking, oh my
gosh, this company is really missing out on her full
capabilities, because she's doing an amazing job in this
role that she's in. We could use her in a more
powerful more effective way. Like she has grown so much in
the years that she's been here, we must find a way and by we I
was thinking okay, that's my job and also who, you know looking
over. My shoulder, like, who else is
here in manager world? Who can help me figure out how
to do this. But as an organization we can
benefit from all of her strength from all that she's doing and
it's important to do so before she gets so frustrated, she just
leaves, right? So in the course of working with
her and then talking to my manager and saying hey I have
this incredibly High performing person on Team, how can I
support her in, moving to a higher level role?
How can I support her and getting promoted into some kind
of something that's more fitting for who she is now?
And it took time, I had to connect with my manager.
We had to connect and look sort of at what was happening across
the organization. It required dedicated effort and
it, it was one of the most Illuminating experiences,
because up until that point, I really didn't appreciate how
unclear organizations can be and how they staff and develop
talent and place people. Like, it really seemed obvious.
She's performed so. Well, we have all of this
evidence that she's doing great. Why wouldn't we take advantage
and put her into a better position?
And I just really realized how gosh to some extent.
Nobody knows what they're doing. Everybody is making it up as
they go along. If there's so many moving Parts.
It can sometimes be very unclear and very frustrating, but the
reason I'm sharing this story is because before I left that
organization and while I was still a manager, I was able to
support her in getting the promotion that she wanted.
It was definitely overdue, but it did happen.
And it was so rewarding to know that I had been able to help.
And I think that as managers one of the greatest opportunities,
and one of the greatest gifts that we have, is that you do
have Of the power to help Elevate others.
You do have the power to begin to Advocate, to begin to ask
questions, to begin to, kind of connect, these different pieces
of people and relationships and work and do it in a way that
elevates other humans. But that also creates
Improvement for the organization as a whole So, you get to be
that. For others on your team.
So those are my three stories about promotions the first one
about when you get promoted up and you're managing friends
being aware and really respectful and mindful of how
that power Dynamic is now different.
How that's changed. Second story about scope creep.
So yes, there will be times when you will need to do more work or
to expand your responsibilities in order to demonstrate.
Yes, I'm ready for this new level and also make sure that
it's not neglected or overlooked.
Make sure that this is an active conversation so that it is
moving in the direction that You'd like it too, and if it's
not, then you get to ask about it.
And third, as a manager, you now get to help others, get
promoted, you get to help Elevate and uplift them to the
benefit of this human, as well as the organization and all the
other humans. Now, as I was going through all
of these stories on my own and thinking about them, one of the
things that stood out to me that I wanted to share, and this is
kind of the bonus thread that Connects it all.
Is that you know when we are kids and we're growing up for
those of us that have gone through kind of a like a, you
know, standard education, where you go to school, and then you
go to a bigger school and then you go to a bigger school,
right? There's this experience, we have
of generally speaking. Every year we advance And if we
think about this word promotion, it like to think of it as
forward movement, right Pro going forward towards something
motion, this idea of activity of momentum.
And so when were in school, we're getting promoted every
year and we're physically going into a different classroom.
We have different assignments, we have different classmates,
different teachers. So there's this kind of a case
Cadence that we can very comfortably sink into and as we
then move into adulthood and move into the open Waters of the
Working World, one of the very disorienting things at least for
me especially in my in my early career, it was so disorienting
to not have a sense of that forward movement.
What does that forward movement look like, what does that
promotion? Jewel or cycle.
Look like like, how does that happen?
And the biggest kind of astonishing thing.
And this might seem obvious to you.
So you might laugh and that's okay.
I mean I do now and I think back on it but at the moment it was
so astonishing to me was realizing that okay, when we
were in school and when we were kids, there's always somebody.
Observing us and evaluating us. We're getting graded all the
time. You know we have exams.
There's this Sense of somebody's paying attention and they're
evaluating us against some clear standard and that is how we
chart our own progress when we were in the open Waters of
adult, professional life. I mean, this in the most loving
way, nobody cares, like, no one is paying attention, because
people are busy with their own lives and there is no set book
with Scores in the grades that were all trying to measure up
against it's really quite fluid. And when that really registered
for me, I was like, oh that's why, you know, that's why they
always advise you to be sure to promote yourself.
Like let people know what forward momentum you have.
Let people know what you are working on, you know, your
manager doesn't. Ain't no, they're not over your
shoulder. Paying attention to everything
you do. They have their own things that
they're working on to you. They don't have as much
visibility. They're not looking at you with
the same level of scrutiny that we had when we were kids and
growing up. And so part of navigating your
career part of moving forward, in whatever capacity that looks
like for you, it requires. And I want to say it really
requires and it helps when you understand, oh, people might not
see How I've grown people might not see the good work I'm doing.
I can make it visible by mentioning it or talking about
it in my one-on-ones or I can find ways so that it doesn't
disappear, I can find ways to activate the conversation of
what is my next desire? My next step.
What is my ambition? And maybe what you're going to
Mission is I just want to get so good at the craft of this thing
and I actually don't want to manage people.
I know that might sound weird on a podcast for new managers but
this is true that this is something that I've reckoned
with and many of my students, ask themselves to but this idea
of forward movement. And what does that mean to you?
What does that look like to you? And don't assume that your
manager knows Or that anybody knows, because maybe things are
changing or they are more fluid than you realize, and everyone
is just trying to figure this out, one step at a time.
So, I hope that this episode has given you something to think
about, in a way that will help you move forward, in whatever
way that looks for you. I hope you have a wonderful day
at work or night or afternoon, whatever that looks like for
you. And I want to thank you so much
for listening talk to you next time.
Do you want personal confidential help with your
situation at work? I offer one-on-one coaching and
can help you overcome challenges reach your goals and become a
more effective leader to schedule a consult.
Go to my website, Kim nickel.com coaching and we'll schedule time
to talk about what's going on with you and how I can help talk
to you soon.