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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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I'm feeling amazing today in the
last week, I've had a few of my 

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clients have some really 
incredible Transformations where

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they are able to shift out of 
fear, that they didn't even 

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realize that they had and the 
way that they've noticed. 

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So, for example, one of my 
clients, Clients had been 

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feeling a lot of uncertainty and
a lot of fear about what 

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decision to make and what might 
happen if she chose this 

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direction and what might happen 
if she chose that direction and 

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because of the coaching that 
we've done, we had this call 

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where she showed up and just 
realized, oh my gosh, I can feel

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safe even in uncertainty. 
And she did described it as 

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being in The Cloud of Unknowing,
which I Good. 

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Because I don't think she 
realized that but there is a 

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book like the spiritual book 
written by I think an anonymous 

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none or something from like 100 
100 or 200 years ago called The 

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Cloud of Unknowing. 
And I thought it was a beautiful

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way for my client to describe 
this. 

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Feeling of you can be in the 
unknown in the uncertainty and 

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you can either be in a panic 
about it. 

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And the fear gets Really 
activated and in starts to feel 

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anxious and rushy and just 
highly uncomfortable. 

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Like you're trying to get out of
it as quickly as possible or you

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can rest In This Cloud of 
Unknowing, feeling so safe in 

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yourself and feeling so grounded
that you are capable that. 

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You make great decisions that 
you have all the support you 

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need and being in this period. 
Have uncertainty is actually not

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a problem. 
It's just an experience of life 

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and I love that she was able to 
find that for herself in the 

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process of the work. 
We did together. 

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Another client of mine. 
Very recently told me, he said, 

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oh Mom. 
I'm I want to be more bold and I

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want to trust myself more and he
started to see how he was doing 

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that by having direct 
conversations with people. 

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By not holding back and kind of 
holding onto the self-doubt of. 

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Can I say this? 
Can I not will they take it the 

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wrong way? 
Instead, he was able to put that

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aside and when he did what he 
discovered was that he could be 

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more bold and he could trust 
himself and it emerged as this 

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kind of very authentic 
confidence that felt good to be 

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in and then he had this 
incredible conversation with a 

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person out. 
Work and he's like wow that 

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actually worked really nicely. 
I prefer that I prefer to live 

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from that place instead and that
always makes me feel so good 

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because I think often times at 
work the things we think are 

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work, things are really not 
there, really human things and 

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they are things in the way that 
we have relationships, the way 

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that we think about ourselves, 
the secret fears. 

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And by that, I mean, I mean 
sometimes we don't even realize 

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it, we don't even see it for 
ourselves that we have this 

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hidden fear about something that
might happen. 

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And then it twists the way that 
we build relationships and 

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communicate and think about 
ourselves and it can really get 

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us in quite a tangle. 
And so when we start to solve 

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for that in the work context, it
ends up solving for that in so 

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many other areas of your life. 
And let's face it. 

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Work is one part of life. 
It might be a really big part, 

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because we spend a lot of time 
there and it's directly 

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connected to livelihood and to 
Financial Security and all of 

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that. 
But life is always bigger than 

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work work. 
Is just one venue just one place

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where as a human you get to 
experience your life and being 

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being alive with other humans 
and in relationship to that. 

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So today I wanted to talk with 
you about the importance of, how

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you identify the problem. 
And this came up in a very clear

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way. 
For me personally, very recently

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where I was in a communication 
in a email communication with 

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someone that I am going to be 
learning from and I joined her 

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program. 
Very excited for it. 

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And she sent me an email with a 
link to the calendar. 

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It was like, if you click on 
this link, it will add this, you

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know, calendar and all the 
information to my, you know, 

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personal calendar. 
And I got the email, I click the

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link and I got an error message.
And I was so frustrated, I'm 

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like what's going on here? 
And I tried it a couple of times

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in the link didn't work and then
I emailed her and then the email

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bounced back, like what is going
on? 

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So, I was able to message her 
through another social platform 

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that we're connected on and I 
said, hey, you know, I click the

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calendar link, it didn't work. 
And I tried to email you, and it

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didn't work, and I'm like, 
what's going on here? 

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And she wrote back to me, she 
said, oh my gosh, thank you for 

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letting me know. 
I had to update my credit card 

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for the you know, for Gmail 
because it up into it updated, 

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but it didn't update in all the 
places. 

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And so that's why. 
Email is bouncing back and it 

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still didn't though, it didn't 
fix the calendar thing. 

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She emailed me again, here's the
link, click the link for the 

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calendar. 
I click the link. 

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It didn't work. 
I was getting kind of 

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frustrated. 
I couldn't figure out what was 

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going on. 
What is the problem? 

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And I was also feeling kind of 
impatient like, why is this link

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not working? 
Like I'm doing what I'm supposed

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to do. 
I'm clicking it. 

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But maybe like she Not doing 
something correctly like what's 

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going on here and what happened 
was I realized, like, oh wait a 

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minute, she's sending it to my 
gmail address, but when I click 

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it, it's opening it up like 
within Google and Gmail, you 

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know, you can have multiple 
accounts but your browser when 

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you open it, it'll be logged in,
to your default account. 

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And so, what I realized was 
happening was that even though 

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she was sending it to one email 
account, My Gmail when I clicked

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it to open it, it was opening it
in a browser window that was 

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logged on to my default account,
which is a different account. 

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And so it was confused because 
it was opening up the calendar, 

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which was on which was, you 
know, the link was had been 

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granted permission through my 
gmail address but it opened in a

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different browser login and so 
Google was confused. 

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I didn't realize that they were 
all the same. 

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And I realized that in order for
this to work, I had to log out 

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of everything and then login 
again. 

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So that I could make the browser
window, the same email 

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Associated, login as the email 
as the link, like I had to 

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streamline all of that and it 
was happening. 

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So seamlessly, I didn't realize 
it. 

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And then when I did I logged out
of everything log back in, click

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the link, it worked perfectly. 
And so I messaged her and I 

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said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. 
It was my browser window. 

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I figured it out. 
You know, thank you for being 

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patient with me and she replied.
Oh my gosh. 

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Thank you for telling me. 
I've had that happen to and I 

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have been very confused about 
that and my guess is. 

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She also will have clients 
either in the present moment or 

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in the future that might have a 
similar challenge that might 

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have that same problem and they 
won't understand why, and now 

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she knows. 
Knows what is going on. 

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So now she knows another way to 
troubleshoot it. 

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So the reason I wanted to share 
this with you is because when we

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come up against a challenger a 
problem, the way you identify, 

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what the problem is, is 
incredibly important because the

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way you identify and Define, the
problem will limit the way you 

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seek to address it. 
So, for example, when I was 

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clicking on the link and it 
wasn't working and I thought, 

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oh, maybe she sent the link 
wrong or maybe there's something

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that she's not doing correctly. 
It turned all of my attention to

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her and it turned all of my 
attention away from what the 

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actual problem was. 
And notice, the problem wasn't 

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something that I was doing. 
It wasn't something that she was

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doing. 
It was about the way the process

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worked in the background. 
It was the system of how the 

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browser window and the 
different. 

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You know, profiles all worked 
and they're designed to work 

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seamlessly. 
So you don't see them which is 

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normally fine until it's not and
then it became problematic and 

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so often times Times in the 
workplace, something happens 

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that we don't understand why are
we feel friction confusion 

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frustration? 
And when we Define the problem 

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in terms of a person or their 
personality that limits our 

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thinking, and our solution set 
tremendously because think about

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it, if we go to the place in our
mind or we think this person, 

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their Tonality just it's like, 
that's the problem. 

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It's what they're doing are not 
doing. 

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They must be doing something 
wrong because their personality 

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is just like this, then what 
happens is? 

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It gets us in trenched into, I'm
right? 

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They're wrong it completely 
let's go of any agency or 

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authority because you don't have
agency or authority over who a 

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person is or what their 
personality is and it's 

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eliminates us being curious. 
Reyes, it kind of puts us in 

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this direction of blame, where 
we stop being curious about 

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what's going on, which means 
that we're not able to actually 

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identify and solve for what the 
real issue is. 

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Instead when you are faced with 
a problem or frustration, go 

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first to the lens of process. 
Go first to the lens of system. 

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Of context. 
Like, what is the bigger picture

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here? 
That might explain why. 

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I'm seeing this result. 
Why? 

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I'm seeing this situation 
unfolding in this way? 

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If it wasn't a personal personal
issue if it wasn't about 

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personality, then how else could
I look at this? 

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Because that will keep you in 
the place of curiosity, which 

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will get you more insight. 
More Knowledge, more 

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perspective, more information, 
and it allows you to see the 

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blind spots more easily, like 
with me in the browser, that was

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a blind spot. 
I would not have seen that if I 

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was only focused on like, what 
is she doing? 

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Oh, well, why is this not 
working? 

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And then what's really cool is 
because I was able to actually 

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see it and solve for it, then we
learn together. 

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So sometimes when things are not
going well or Like, what is 

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happening here? 
If you see it as process, you 

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see it as ecosystem, you see it 
as the bigger picture, then you 

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can actually partner and solve 
it together, which gets us out 

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of that, opposing conflict, 
working against each other, kind

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of energy. 
And that's the easiest place for

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our brains to go. 
We tend to jump to blame pretty 

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quickly and often it takes 
intentional practice too. 

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Slow down to take a breath. 
And ask what's actually 

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happening here? 
What could be behind this? 

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What am I not seeing? 
Or what is so hidden in? 

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Plain sight. 
I'm glossing over it. 

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If you've been listening to this
podcast for a while you can't 

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you might be familiar with the 
who broke the toaster episode. 

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I did, oh gosh. 
Maybe a year ago. 

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It's back there if you dig for 
it. 

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But essentially it was the same 
kind of thing where someone 

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thought the Mr. Was broken 
because when he put the bread in

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it and they pushed the button 
down, it didn't work and he 

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thought somebody broke the 
toaster. 

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That was his first guess to 
identify the problem. 

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He thought the toaster is 
broken. 

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Somebody broke it. 
And I tell you I could already 

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see the wheels turning in his 
mind as he was imagining which 

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of his colleagues had broken the
toaster and then just left it on

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the counter could see him 
getting heated. 

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Thinking somebody broke this, 
who is it and starting to blame 

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and accuse people in his mind? 
And so when I was in that 

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kitchen with him and I said, oh 
that's really interesting like 

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what does that even mean? 
What is happening and I glanced 

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down the counter and I sought on
microwave and I noticed that the

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digital display on the microwave
wasn't on, Ah, that's kind of 

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weird. 
And then I walked down to the 

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refrigerator and I opened the 
refrigerator and normally 

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There's a light that turns on 
when you open the refrigerator 

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door, but this time there was no
light and I realized I think the

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problem is not with the toaster.
I think maybe there's no power 

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coming into the entire wall and 
it turns out, that's exactly 

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what happened. 
The circuit breaker had blown 

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and there was no electricity 
coming into the entire wall of 

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the kitchen. 
So he had Miss identified, the 

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problem. 
We do this all the time and we 

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feel so Justified. 
That's the thing I really want 

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to direct you to is to notice 
when you feel really Justified 

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really defensive for me, I 
despair I describe it as feeling

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very by T like there's a part of
me I think about like a little 

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dog. 
I just want to bite somebody 

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because I'm feeling very 
frustrated and upset and that 

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tends to be what what it Feels 
like for me, I get a little bit 

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by T and frustrated and 
impatient but you want to notice

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for yourself. 
What is that look like? 

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What does that feel? 
Like when you're in it and 

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realize to, this is not bad. 
Like I'm not saying that's a bad

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thing, you're a bad person. 
You're a very human person. 

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It's a very human response. 
But what you want to be aware of

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is when you feel that in your 
body when you feel the 

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frustration tightness in the 
throat, You feel that little 

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tension headache, start behind 
your eyes and you think, ah, why

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is this happening? 
You feel that heavy sigh. 

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I can't believe this like what 
is going on here? 

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Use that as a signal. 
To pay attention and become 

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curious. 
You want to access your 

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curiosity because that keeps you
in a state of open, Discovery 

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investigation, and exploration. 
And that will help you to pull 

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your attention up out from this 
very specific granular moment to

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looking at the bigger picture, 
which is what is the process 

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that is happening here. 
Sometimes it's around 

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difference. 
Of expectations differences in 

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communication Styles 
misunderstandings in what the 

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priorities are. 
There can be so many different 

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ways to understand. 
Like why is this happening 

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sometimes it's about I'm 
thinking of another client who 

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had a situation where there was 
a document that was changed and 

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it was changed not in the 
correct way and when she went 

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back, she realized oh the track 
changes feature ER, what like we

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haven't been using that 
correctly and rather than 

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blaming her teammate for not 
being, you know, detail-oriented

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enough or not catching all the 
errors or whatever she said. 

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Okay, as a team, we need to 
really clean up the way that we 

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use the track changes feature, 
because if we're not precise 

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about it, it can lead to 
unforced errors. 

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Can lead us to make mistakes 
that we Me too. 

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If only we tune up our process 
for document review revision and

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how we use the tracked changes 
tool in our document system as a

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manager and leader. 
This also helps you to build 

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trust with people when they make
mistakes especially if you have 

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folks who are very 
high-performing and take it 

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super personally as at like a 
personal failure. 

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If They're not perfect and we're
not perfect and especially as 

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you are growing and doing things
for the first time or stretching

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beyond the comfort zone, and 
expanding your skillset doing 

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new things. 
It's more valuable to build in 

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that feeling of trust. 
I've got your back, we learn 

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things together, nobody gets 
attacked or or a heavy blame 

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like you like, you're not going 
to be a heavy blame Target. 

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If something doesn't go 
absolutely perfectly according 

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to plan or smoothly and all of 
that comes from the way that you

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identify and describe the 
problem building in that kind of

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trust to, for how do we as a 
team addressed problems 

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challenges and Mistakes by 
looking at process rather than 

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personality and individuals, it 
really does create a more robust

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and a more resilient team the 
way that you learn together 

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means that you will learn faster
and that is valuable and it will

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also keep more trust in the team
as opposed to feeling like I 

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need to either hide things until
they're Just Right Where I Need 

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to you know, slow things down 
until they're just right? 

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Because you know we none of us 
like to feel blamed and 

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especially if you think of 
yourself as being really do 

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Urgent and a hard worker and 
doing great work. 

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It can feel so paralyzing. 
If you're feeling worried about 

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all like, what if I do this 
wrong, sometimes it will happen.

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But the way that we describe the
problem and then move to 

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address, it makes all the 
difference. 

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So that is what I wanted to 
share with you today when you 

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learn how to think differently 
about defining the problem. 

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And when you get out of the 
blaming frame, when you get more

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into curiosity and when you're 
able to feel emotion 

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intentionally without a Target, 
then you will use your energy 

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better, you will use your 
attention more effectively, you 

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will use your time in a much 
more useful way. 

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It is a huge time-saver not just
in the moment but So in terms of

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as you build that trust and as 
you build that feeling of I've 

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got your back, it's okay to not 
be perfect because we we know 

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how to learn it ends up. 
Saving you so much time and it 

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just creates a better 
experience, honestly. 

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Like, it feels better to live in
that headspace then in the head 

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space of blame and fear and 
frustration and impatience, I 

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know because I've done both. 
Now I've learned so much about 

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how to take a better approach 
and I want you to have that too.

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So, thank you so much for 
listening. 

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If you want to do more of this 
work in a more specifically 

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00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:48,400
detailed supported way then 
reach out to me from one-on-one 

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coaching. 
Or you can also get on my email 

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00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:57,200
list to learn about the next 
time I offer a group which we're

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kicking off on Tuesday. 
It's going. 

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Be really great. 
Cannot wait. 

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All right, have an amazing week.
I will talk to you next time. 

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Bye. 
Hey, before you go, if you like 

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00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,400
this podcast, leave a review. 
Tell me why you listen and what 

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00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,700
has helped you? 
Thanks so much. 

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I'll see you next time.
