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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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You know, working with other 
humans, it's not always easy. 

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And especially when you are 
someone who is a high achiever 

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and who really Prides herself on
doing a good job. 

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When you start to manage people,
it can feel really challenging 

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because we forget, it says 
skill. 

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I'll that you haven't done 
before, it's a different kind of

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job than whatever it is that you
were doing before. 

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So back when I was an editor, I 
was a great editor and then I 

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became a manager of editors and 
that's a different job. 

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You might be really good at 
sales but then managing a team 

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of sales people that is a 
different job. 

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So I think sometimes we simply 
forget That just because you are

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good at something. 
When you become a people 

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manager, we sometimes forget 
that is a different kind of job.

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It has its own learning curve 
and because people very, and 

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cultures like the organizational
culture that you're in or the 

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team culture that you're in that
varies. 

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And so there are all kinds of 
things in play that will affect 

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how successful you're feeling in
the job and how successful you 

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feel, you can be with your team 
and sometimes we simply forget 

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that. 
Another thing I see a lot is you

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might be really great at 
managing one set of people like 

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it just works really well. 
People get along communication 

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skills are on point and then You
go to a different team or you 

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change organizations, you have a
different group of people and 

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the things that worked before 
are not working with this group,

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and it can feel very scary, 
like, okay, I'm out of ideas, 

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you know, the, why isn't it 
working? 

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It worked really well over here.
What's going on? 

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You can feel really disorienting
or frustrating and just like, 

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ah, like what do I do? 
And the Other thing that 

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sometimes happens is if there's 
a big change in upper management

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if there's a big leadership 
change and now the new leader 

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comes in and they have a 
different Vision, they have a 

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different style, they want 
different things from you and 

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from your team, it can also feel
frustrating or weird or simply 

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disorienting to now. 
Try to adapt your management 

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style and your skills with your 
team too. 

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Comedy and work with a new 
leader, a new upper management 

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person. 
And so sometimes we also forget 

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that the skill of managing up 
becomes even more important as 

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we rise into lover levels of 
responsibility in our career. 

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Because also the people that are
above you that you're managing, 

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that Dynamic also changes. 
So what I wanted to draw your 

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attention to today in our Our 
time together on this podcast, 

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is to point you to this idea of 
process over Perfection. 

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And right now, I am doing 
actually have two different 

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groups happening, one for a 
private client and then a group 

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of my listeners and my students.
And we've been working together 

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over several weeks and one of 
the very first things that I 

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share with my students. 
That I want you to know is to 

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think about process over 
Perfection, because when we are 

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focused on Perfection that adds 
a lot of pressure that adds a 

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lot of self judgement. 
We start worrying about making 

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mistakes. 
We start worrying about making 

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decisions, you know, should I 
address this situation directly?

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Should I give it more time will?
It'd be micromanaging. 

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If I you know tell them to do it
in this way or do I need to be 

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empathetic and just let them 
figure it out. 

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Like there are so many of these 
micro decisions that are 

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happening all of the time. 
And when we are worried about 

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doing it perfectly, we will 
often then hesitate to make 

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decisions because we kind of 
spin in the what ifs and we 

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don't actually commit to saying,
okay, let's do this. 

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See what happens. 
And, you know, so we delay, we 

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delay, we delay and it, of 
course, ends up taking a lot of 

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time in your mind because you 
still thinking about it. 

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Even if you haven't decided and 
gone forward with that, so 

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Perfection can really get in the
way when we're thinking that 

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that is the goal is to be a 
great manager. 

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I have to do this perfectly and 
I recently heard this brene 

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brown quote. 
She is a A researcher and does a

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lot of work around, shame and 
Leadership and Perfection. 

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And this quote that I heard her.
She was talking about the 

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difference between striving for 
excellence and this desire of 

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perfection. 
And she says, the idea that 

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fuels Perfection is this thought
of if I look perfect and do 

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everything perfectly I can avoid
or Mais the painful feelings of 

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blame judgment and shame. 
She says that so, simply and so 

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powerfully because we do have 
this thought, if I can do it 

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perfectly then I won't feel bad 
because I won't be blamed for 

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things. 
I won't be shamed for not doing 

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it right, I won't feel judgment.
But the funny thing is, is that 

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when we are focused on 
Perfection, you're already E in 

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the blame and the shame and the 
Judgment because you're doing it

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to yourself. 
You're already having the 

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thought of who this is this, 
right? 

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I don't think it's right. 
How do I get it, right? 

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We're already in this experience
of self judgement and it can be 

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very contracted like this 
feeling of being kind of tents 

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and a little bit closed up and 
like, you have to be really 

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careful to not break anything. 
It just creates a really tense 

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and judgmental. 
Our environment. 

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So that's Perfection. 
And then on the other side we 

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have process and this is why I 
love to remind myself. 

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My students. 
My clients of process over 

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Perfection because when we do 
that, we're focused on learning 

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by doing. 
We're thinking about being 

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iterative the idea that it's not
about getting it exactly. 

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Right. 
The very first time, But that 

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you will learn more as you go, 
it is an iterative process. 

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It is not like a one-and-done, 
final. 

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It is something that is dynamic,
that you are in active 

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participation in when we think 
about process. 

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We're also welcoming curiosity. 
Not knowing is not a problem 

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when you're in process because 
your curiosity is what you will 

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use to grow. 
You're learning and that is a 

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normal thing, it's not a 
deficiency. 

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I think sometimes especially you
know if you have been very 

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successful in a formal education
environment not knowing is bad, 

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the whole point is to know 
things that's what the tests are

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for and all of the projects is 
you're trying to demonstrate and

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show what you know and then you 
get rewarded for knowing things 

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but when you are are doing 
something for the first time or 

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managing a different group of 
people than you are not going to

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know a lot of things. 
There are a lot of things, you 

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can't know until you know there 
are rising and so in that 

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situation you want to think of 
curiosity as part of the process

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not knowing is part of the 
process. 

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We don't have to freak out about
that. 

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We want to know. 
There will always be things, I 

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don't know. 
There will always be some blind 

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spots there. 
Will always be some things that 

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I am learning, and that's okay, 
that keeps us in curiosity. 

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That keeps us in a state where 
we can be more receptive to 

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learning or we can be more 
adaptable and more resilient and

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it keeps us out of that really 
harsh inner critic voice that 

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harsh inner judgment, that tends
to shut down and isolate us. 

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The other thing with process 
over Perfection is that it lets 

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us Orient and clarify around an 
internal measure of success or 

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an internal standard of success.
And of course in the workplace, 

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there are always going to be the
external measures. 

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So the specific metrics or the 
kpis, the key performance 

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indicators or however your 
organization calls them, there 

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will be the measurable things. 
That, you know, somebody else 

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establishes for you as a measure
of success, but we cannot use 

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that alone. 
It is so important. 

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To also have Clarity around what
are your internal measures of 

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success? 
What is your internal standard? 

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And that will include a couple 
of things that will include your

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own values. 
So are you showing up and 

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behaving and being the person? 
Who is grounded in the values 

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that you hold as important, it 
might be kindness. 

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Are you showing up with 
kindness? 

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Are you showing up with 
compassion? 

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Are you showing up with being 
concerned? 

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Not just for individual success,
but for team and Collective 

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success, another, internal 
measure can simply be, what does

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success look like for today? 
Because remember, to a lot of 

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the things that we get measured 
on In a formal sense, those are 

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things that happen over time. 
So if we're looking at, you know

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like a project that is 
successfully created and 

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launched, that is something that
happens over time. 

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So you want to have for yourself
and understanding of what are 

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the indicators that will lead up
to that? 

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Ultimate goal that I'll be able 
to measure on the outside. 

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It might Might require 
conversations and strategic 

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planning and making decisions 
about Staffing and making 

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decisions about budget. 
There are lots of different 

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kinds of things that will have 
to happen before you get the 

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external reflection back of. 
Yes, I have accomplished that 

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and so you want to know for 
yourself, what are those things 

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in part? 
Because yes, it helps to create 

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that pathway to the That bigger 
goal but also you want to give 

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yourself credit for the 
successes along. 

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The way there will always be 
moments when we feel like we're 

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not doing enough or we should be
doing more. 

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There's it's so easy to go into 
that head space but the longer 

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we stay there, the less energy 
we have and we Overlook the 

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things that are working and it's
kind of like, you know, Oh, 

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you've got so much value in the 
things that are going well and 

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then things that are working you
want to build on those and you 

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do that by noticing them. 
Just first of all, just simply 

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notice and acknowledge and give 
yourself credit for those 

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things. 
The last thing I want to share 

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with you in this conversation 
around process over Perfection 

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is also to remind you that you 
are good at Learning. 

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Have successfully learned a lot 
of things in the course of your 

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life. 
Some of them through formal 

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education, most of them simply 
by focusing on learning by doing

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on being curious on having 
internal measures and standards 

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of success. 
And by being a dynamic, curious,

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human, who is engaging with your
world and the people that are in

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it and learning. 
What we're Works learning how to

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human in the world so reminding 
yourself, you know what okay 

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maybe this situation that you're
facing as a manager is new but 

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you are good at learning things.
You can learn how to effectively

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manage the situation. 
These people these demands like 

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you can learn how to do that and
I think that when we Member that

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capability that you have inside,
it helps to take some of the 

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pressure off because you 
remember. 

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Oh, right, I do know how to 
learn things. 

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I am actually good at learning 
and then you can start thinking 

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and reflecting about, when am I 
good at learning what things 

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helped me to learn and you can 
tap into that resourcefulness 

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for yourself. 
So that is what I wanted to 

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share with you today. 
This is idea of process over 

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Perfection. 
It's also a way to give a lot 

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more grace and compassion to 
yourself and as you do it 

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actually, then extends a little 
bit outward and it allows you to

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not take things. 
So personally when things are 

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either not going the way you 
expected or you're feeling 

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frustrated with something that's
happening at work because you 

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realize oh yes, these other 
people are also not perfect. 

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They're also human, they have 
their own process. 

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We can figure this out. 
It really helps us also to 

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pause, take a step back, take a 
deep breath. 

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And reset perspective. 
What are we really doing here? 

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What is the real issue here? 
Where am I in this process? 

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So remember that. 
Remember to celebrate your wins,

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as you go. 
They all All count and it will 

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help you next time you're 
feeling that feeling of pressure

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or judgment or like when you 
realize you're sort of delaying 

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something because you're trying 
to get it. 

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Perfect. 
And sometimes Perfection is 

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actually not the most useful 
approach. 

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So this is all work that I do 
more deeply with my clients and 

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in my group might have a new 
group that is starting in May so

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go to my website. 
To learn about that and apply, I

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would love to have you in this 
12-week group. 

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We will work on all of the 
things that you want to bring. 

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You'll read more about it there,
but, you know, you don't have to

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do it alone. 
We can do it together. 

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So that's what I wanted to share
with you today. 

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Thank you so much for listening,
have a great week and I will 

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talk to you next time. 
Hey, before you go, if you like 

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this. 
Podcast, leave a review. 

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Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

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Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.