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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello. 

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I am glad you're here. 
It is a beautiful Sunday morning

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as I'm recording this. 
And I'm really excited today 

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because I want to share with you
a conversation that I had. 

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With a good friend of mine. 
Her name is Teresa Torres and 

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she runs a Blog called Product 
talk. 

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And Teresa is a product coach, 
and she works with teams to help

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them make better decisions by 
learning. 

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Knowing how to implement 
continuous Discovery in a really

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useful way. 
And she and I were talking 

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because I had posted on Facebook
about how I had coached some of 

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my students into getting their 
work to pay for their 

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professional development and 
that was a conversation that she

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has a lot with her students as 
they look to get outside 

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resources and funding to take 
workshops and to get coaching. 

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And so she wanted to talk with 
me about How I do that and about

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how I help my students with 
accessing personal and 

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professional development budget,
that they might not know, is 

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there? 
And so, I am going to share with

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you the conversation that we had
all about that. 

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And before I do remember, it is 
January. 

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It is the beginning of the year.
So this is a great time to be 

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thinking of what kind of 
professional development. 

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Do you want to support you as 
you become a better leader to 

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become a more equipped manager, 
for all of the changes that are 

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happening in your company and in
your Mystery and really just for

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you as a person, you know, one 
of the ways we stay engaged in 

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our career, and our company, and
our work is by continuing to 

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grow and to feel supported and 
to feel curious and to feel 

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excited about learning and 
mastering new skills. 

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So, this is a fantastic time to 
be thinking for yourself. 

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What does that look like? 
And to be starting to have 

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conversations with your manager 
with your whoever's in charge of

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HR or In charge of Learning and 
Development or they might call 

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it people Ops in your company, 
this is the great time of year 

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to be doing that. 
Okay, let's go into the 

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conversation with Teresa. 
Alright. 

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Hi everyone. 
I'm Teresa tourist, with product

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talk. 
And I'm here with my good 

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friend, Kim nickel, Kim. 
Tell us a little bit about who 

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you are. 
I am a coach, and a teacher. 

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And in San Francisco, where I 
live, I teach this Workshop 

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called managing humans essential
skills for new managers and 

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let's just stop there. 
Yeah I love it. 

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Okay, so tell me about managing 
humans. 

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How did it come about? 
What do you teach? 

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Good question so it came about 
because in the last few years is

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I've been doing more work in 
corporate Learning and 

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Development and a lot of the 
companies I work with have 

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really big budgets for 
especially for leadership 

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development for their highest 
level people. 

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And for people that are just 
making the first step into 

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managing people, they might not 
Lee managed, they might be, you 

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know, product managers, they 
might be EAS they might be 

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thinking, oh, like, that's the 
next level for me, is to have a 

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direct report or sometimes. 
It's a person and they say, Hey,

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you know, we just got an intern 
for the summer and they decided 

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I should be in charge of them 
since I'm finally. 

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And I know what, you know our 
department is doing, but I don't

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know how to manage people. 
So I was seeing this a lot and I

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thought, oh, I would love to 
create something. 

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That was really bite-sized, 
really small, really Really 

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useful and really helped people 
at that very first step of how 

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do I manage people, because I 
might be really good at doing 

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this thing on. 
My keyboard, I might be really 

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good at designing this thing, 
but the actual managing of 

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humans is a very different skill
set. 

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And most of us don't get the 
guidance that we really want 

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when we need it. 
So, I partnered with General 

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Assembly, which is this really 
cool organization that has 

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Workshops and teachers all 
around, professional 

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development. 
And I said, hey, I want to do 

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this workshop and they said, 
okay, so it started like that. 

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Well, that's great. 
So, one of the reasons why I 

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wanted to talk with Kim is 
because she had posted on 

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Facebook, that she had just 
helped one of her managing human

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students get their company to 
pay for the general assembly 

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class. 
And Kim was really excited about

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that and we had a conversation 
around for me with product. 

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Talk. 
I have a lot of students to ask 

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me, is it safe for me to ask my 
company for work? 

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Is it safe for me to ask my 
company to pay for training? 

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How do I do that? 
What does that look like? 

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And so we decided to have a 
conversation about how people 

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can do that. 
And for those of you that are 

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listening on the audio, Kim is 
beaming there right now, which 

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is exactly why I wanted to talk 
to Kim about this, because she 

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clearly loves this topic. 
Yeah, this is my favorite 

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favorite conversation and I 
realized I started having this 

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conversation. 
Shouldn't in my workshop that 

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people would come and I realized
oh people are paying out of 

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pocket to be here. 
And people were not telling 

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their boss, they were coming to 
this Workshop that, you know, 

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they had found it on their own 
and they had decided they wanted

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to come. 
And they, they were afraid that 

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if they told their boss, it 
would somehow reveal some kind 

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of deficiency about them. 
And I realized, okay, we need to

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have a talk because there's a 
completely, a new a That way of 

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thinking about this that will 
help you tremendously not just 

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in this Workshop, but for the 
rest of your life, and 

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especially at work, because 
learning how to be an advocate 

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learning, how to make an, ask is
really important. 

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It is a skill that you 
absolutely need, especially as 

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you manage people. 
Yeah, this is great. 

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So let's just okay, so obviously
there's this skill of. 

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How do you advocate for 
yourself? 

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Let's dive into this a little 
bit more so I work at a company.

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Maybe I am and maybe I'm a 
first-time manager. 

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Maybe I'm even an individual. 
Contributor aspiring to be a 

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first-time manager. 
I am interested in some 

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trainings, on whatever topic. 
Why should I ask my company to 

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pay for it? 
Yeah, so you think about this 

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consider that their number one, 
there might already be a budget 

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for Learning and Development, 
so, If you show up to your 

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manager or to whoever's in 
charge of Learning and 

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Development and maybe at a 
company where that doesn't even 

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exist, it's just, you know, a 
small start-up. 

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I see a lot of those too, but 
let's say that you realize. 

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Okay, there is a skill that I 
want to get better at. 

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And when I get better at the 
skill, it will make me better at

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my job that I will become more 
productive. 

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I will lead people more 
effectively, we will get more 

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done in less time because I know
Now, have a skill that I 

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currently don't have. 
So, you've now identified a gap 

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and you've identified a path 
towards addressing that and 

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you've completely taken your own
initiative. 

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So, number one, you're 
exhibiting a leadership skill by

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saying, hey, I noticed this Gap.
This is what will help me to 

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improve and get us there. 
What's our Reimbursement policy 

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can I get reimbursed for this? 
And when you frame it that way, 

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it's not from a place of of, oh,
I have a deficiency. 

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And I'm revealing something 
about myself, that's bad. 

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This is you. 
Stepping into a leadership role 

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of saying, hey, I notice there's
this Gap. 

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I want to take steps towards it.
How much, you know, what do we 

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have in our budget for Learning 
and Development? 

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This this quarter or this year 
and the other great thing is 

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that your boss has so much else 
to do, they really don't have 

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the time to look at where you're
at and You know what you need to

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do next? 
You need to grow by learning 

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this skill. 
Here's a workshop for you to 

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take. 
Here's someone to study with 

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because everyone has too much to
do. 

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And so when you show that you're
taking responsibility for your 

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own professional development, 
and career growth, you're also 

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doing a favor for your boss and 
you're also showing that. 

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Yeah, I'm engaged and I'm 
invested in bettering myself to 

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better the company and the 
opposite of not growing is being

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Stagnant and is being complacent
and none of that is really a 

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good look. 
I mean, you know, it's okay to 

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signal to others that you are 
eager to grow that. 

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You have ambition, your company 
will be uh, you know, we hadn't 

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even thought of that. 
Thank you for bringing that to 

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our attention and bringing us a 
solution, which is also the 

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great thing. 
Yeah, I love this. 

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So I think for a lot of people, 
it's really, they really yearn 

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for their boss to give them 
professional development 

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opportunities. 
I love that you're highlighting 

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that everybody has too much on 
their plate. 

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They don't have time that when 
you're proactive and you ask for

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some professional development 
budget. 

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You're actually solving a 
problem for your boss. 

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You're not creating a problem 
for them to address. 

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Let me ask a question though, 
because let's say, this makes 

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sense, to me, if I'm a new 
manager, feel like, I've just 

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been promoted to my first 
management role. 

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This makes a lot of sense for 
me, but a new role, there's new 

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things for me to learn, what if 
I want to do a training that's 

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related to my current job. 
Sobbing. 

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It's not a promotion, it's just 
related to what I'm already 

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doing. 
And I have a little bit of fear 

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that I should already know that 
the conversation is still kind 

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of the same. 
And the fear of oh I feel like I

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should already know that I'm sad
to tell you that may never go 

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away. 
That becomes a true life thing 

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about being an adult, and being 
in a world where things change a

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lot, your job is not to know 
everything and if you're in a 

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role it's because You are the 
person who is there and so let's

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make the most of it and do the 
best you can. 

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If you come again from this 
conversation, not that, oh, 

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there's something I'm not good 
at number one. 

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There's something that all of us
are not good at like we're 

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always a work in development. 
So when you're in your current 

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job, the great conversation you 
can have is, hey, even though, 

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you know, I've been in this job 
for a year or maybe I've been in

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this job for three years, I 
really want to get better at XY 

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and z or you start the 
conversation of Been wondering, 

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what would it be like to do this
but in this other department or 

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what's next for me you can still
introduce that conversation from

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a perspective of hey I want to 
continue to contribute to the 

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company in a more powerful way. 
Can we, how do we do this? 

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Yeah, it's really freeing to 
let. 

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Go of your job is to know how to
do all the things and to really 

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take that kind of continuous 
Improvement mindset of today. 

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I'm pretty good at my job, but I
want to be even better at my job

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or I want to help my company 
even more. 

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Yeah. 
Do you've mentioned Learning and

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Development? 
A couple of times I know for a 

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lot of people, they work at 
small companies that don't have 

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Learning and Development 
departments or I could just 

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never heard that term, but I 
know even small companies have 

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professional development 
budgets. 

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Can you just talk a little bit 
about that concept? 

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What does that mean? 
What does someone need to know 

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about some funds that might 
already be available to them? 

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Yep. 
So Learning and Development is 

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essentially the idea that you 
are continuing to learn. 

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Learn and grow in your 
profession. 

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And what becomes really 
interesting is that the higher 

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you go very often, the less 
technical that learning becomes 

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and it becomes very much about 
relational skills. 

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How do you manage others? 
How what is leadership look 

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like? 
How do you communicate 

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effectively or persuasively? 
And all of that is the 

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intersection of personal growth 
and professional development. 

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Whether that as a formal, task 
that someone is in charge of And

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every company is different. 
Whoever is in charge of HR 

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whoever's in charge of talent, 
whoever's in charge of people 

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will have some awareness of what
do we doing for professional 

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development, to continue to 
develop and grow people and 

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sometimes it shows up in h.r. 
because it's another way of 

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showcasing that. 
Hey, we as a company, have a 

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culture that cares about you 
learning and growing as a 

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person. 
And sometimes that is part of 

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what makes a person choose. 
I want to work at the company 

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where I can grow. 
So companies are understanding 

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that nobody wants to get stale 
that everybody wants to continue

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to learn and so they will be 
often they'll call it. 

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Sometimes a learning stipend or 
a personal development, budget. 

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And some companies will 
designate a certain amount of 

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money that each employee gets 
and over the course of the year,

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you can spend that money however
you want as long as it's related

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to Learning and Development. 
I could buy a book, you could 

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take an online, course, you 
could hire a coach, you could go

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to a conference and every 
company treats, it differently. 

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What I often find is that a lot 
of companies, even the really 

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large ones that I work with 
where they have thousands of 

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employees and a really big 
Learning and Development budget.

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They're not always good at 
communicating, what's available 

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to their team or to their staff 
or to their employees, and it's 

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easy to miss those. 
Those messages because, you 

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know, your inbox is full and 
you're busy doing the job of 

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doing your work. 
So very often it's simply kind 

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of flies under the radar and 
people don't realize there's 

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something available for them and
so sorry. 

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Should I let you not go ahead so
I have this one. 

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I also want to tell you the 
class that I teach at GA is $40.

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Really, really accessible. 
That's why I notice everybody 

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was paying out of pocket and I 
had one student and and I had 

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told her, I'm like look if 
you're here and you paid out of 

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pocket, that's great. 
Because it shows that you care. 

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So much about your ability to do
a good job that you're willing 

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to put your own money in on it. 
Why don't you just open up a 

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conversation? 
Go back to your CEO. 

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This was a start-up with 12 
people. 

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They had no HR person, they had 
no l and D department and 

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they're just trying to survive. 
I have early stage startup and I

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said just ask hey what's our 
policy? 

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Can I get reimbursed for this 
and she was able to not only get

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reimbursed the oh yeah of course
hadn't even thought hadn't even 

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thought of it but that makes 
sense. 

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And you know it's also a lot 
easier to pay for this 40 dollar

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class than to negotiate salary 
or time off or something really 

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big. 
But then what happened 

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afterwards is. 
Then she went back later and 

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made another ask because she 
wanted to take my five week 

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00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,900
program, which cost quite a bit 
more, but she successfully made 

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her case about why this would 
help the company grow. 

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Why it would help her to more 
effectively manage. 

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All these new people, it would 
help with onboarding so people 

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could get better faster. 
And the cool thing that I love, 

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most is when her boss said yes, 
You can take this course for a 

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00:15:53,408 --> 00:15:57,000
couple hundred bucks. 
She said, wait a minute, it 

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00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,100
shouldn't be just me that 
benefits from this. 

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What if we, as a company decided
to make this an official policy 

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and as a result of that, she 
came back and said, hey. 

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So now as a company, we now have
decided that every employee gets

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$1000 that they can use in the 
year for any professional 

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00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,100
development that they want. 
Yeah, that's great. 

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00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,000
This is something that I see 
quite a bit. 

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So someone will email me and 
they'll say, hey, I really want 

283
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,800
to take your course, but I can't
afford to pay it for whatever 

284
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,800
reason. 
And I always reply back and 

285
00:16:30,808 --> 00:16:33,200
said, have you asked your boss 
like, have you talked to your 

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00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,500
company about this all of the 
courses that I teach our core 

287
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:39,400
skills for product people? 
Clearly your company should be 

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00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,000
supporting you getting better at
this. 

289
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,800
And always is a little bit of 
resistance around. 

290
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,300
Marty, a product manager, I 
should already know this skill 

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00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,500
and we talked a little bit about
how do you reframe it. 

292
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:51,000
Like you, of course you know how
to interview a Summer, let's 

293
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,600
supercharged that skill. 
Let's help. 

294
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,700
You get even better at it. 
And more often than not people 

295
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:58,400
come back and they say, wow, I 
already had a professional 

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00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,100
development budget, I just 
didn't know about it. 

297
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,500
And I think that's the really 
powerful part here. 

298
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,800
Is that whether your company has
a policy or not, your leaders 

299
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,599
probably care a lot about the 
growth of your staff because 

300
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,800
that's how the company grows and
evolves. 

301
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:15,400
So I love that you're 
highlighting like there's 

302
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,000
probably already dollars there 
for you to spend that you have 

303
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,900
the freedom to look at. 
Yeah, and what you're what you 

304
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:24,000
shared with me? 
Also, reminds me that there's a 

305
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,900
big mindset shift that must 
happen in the course of your 

306
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:31,600
career and in the beginning, so 
much of the mindset is I have to

307
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,000
figure this out by myself and 
it's part of our identity of 

308
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,200
being Scrappy and being 
resourceful. 

309
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,200
And I will, I will do this on my
own. 

310
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,700
I don't want to bother anybody, 
everybody else is really busy, 

311
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:47,200
and we want to step away from 
that a bit and step into the 

312
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,200
mindset of oh this is how I'm 
helping. 

313
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,700
Typing, I'm going to take 
responsibility for myself. 

314
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:58,200
I'm going to ask and see what's 
available and if they say no, 

315
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:02,700
okay, then I'll figure out what 
to do, but they might say, yes, 

316
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:05,900
they might be excited to say. 
Yes, it might help them 

317
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:10,200
tremendously for them to say yes
to me, but I have to ask first, 

318
00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:12,600
I think you're hitting on 
something that's really 

319
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,300
important here. 
And that a lot of times 

320
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,100
especially with negotiating and 
I'm not even sure this is a 

321
00:18:17,108 --> 00:18:20,600
negotiation. 
People think about if I Ask for 

322
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,500
too much. 
I'll be viewed negatively and I 

323
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:27,000
think it's the opposite, right? 
Even if the answer is no, you're

324
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,800
still going to gain respect by 
wanting to invest in yourself 

325
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:33,300
and asking for help for that. 
Yeah. 

326
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,100
And related to that is so much 
of the way that you asked. 

327
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:39,600
So it's not like you're, you 
know, hey can I have this could 

328
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,300
I have, could I have that, could
I have this you're not asking 

329
00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:47,700
from, from either a place of, 
you know, like from an energy of

330
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,900
I there's something that I want 
you to give to me, right? 

331
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:54,900
It's not it's not quite like 
that and I would say it's the 

332
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:56,900
scent. 
It's it's it's a very 

333
00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:01,100
collaborative conversation, it's
a conversation of, we are in 

334
00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:04,900
this together and I'm moving in 
the direction that will improve 

335
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:07,300
things. 
How do we make that happen? 

336
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800
How do we do this? 
And so when you create that 

337
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,100
sense of collaboration and not 
like I'm asking permission or 

338
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:17,700
I'm begging or I'm showing up 
with nothing asking someone who 

339
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,200
Has everything it really puts 
you more on that even footing 

340
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,600
and it's a very different kind 
of conversation. 

341
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,500
Yeah, yeah. 
Okay. 

342
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:28,000
So, can we role play this a 
little bit? 

343
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,200
Like, I hear, here's what I get 
from people a lot. 

344
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,300
Do you have a letter? 
I can send my boss, like, I 

345
00:19:33,308 --> 00:19:37,600
don't know what words to use, so
can I give you a few scenarios 

346
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:40,700
and then you tell me like how 
you would make the ask? 

347
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:45,400
Yeah, let's try that. 
Okay, so let's start with 

348
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,300
Connie, you're managing humans 
class. 

349
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:50,600
So I'm a First-time manager. 
I might have direct reports for 

350
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,100
the first time in my career. 
I know some basic things to do 

351
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:55,900
because of how I've engaged my 
boss. 

352
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:57,700
So I'm doing one-on-ones with 
them. 

353
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:01,000
But people stuff is hard and I 
really want to level up my 

354
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,900
skill, but I also know, I was 
just promoted and I kind of feel

355
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:05,900
like I already have to know how 
to do my job. 

356
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,000
What do? 
And I think my company as a 

357
00:20:10,008 --> 00:20:12,700
professional development budget,
but I think my boss has to sign 

358
00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:14,700
off on it. 
Yeah, IMA doing. 

359
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,100
What do I do here? 
So, if your teeth Thoughts 

360
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,700
immediately come to mind number 
one, if you're in my class and 

361
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,600
have already paid the money, 
then it's really great because 

362
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,600
you can go back and say, Hey I 
want to be even, I want to be 

363
00:20:26,608 --> 00:20:29,000
really, really good at this. 
And so I'm doing everything I 

364
00:20:29,008 --> 00:20:32,600
can to really set myself up to 
be a great manager. 

365
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,200
I already paid for this but I 
wanted to check. 

366
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:38,200
Do we have, can I get reimbursed
for that? 

367
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,100
Can that fall under my 
professional development budget?

368
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,300
And especially when you make a 
small ask, it really also sets 

369
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,700
you up from this position of 
you're not taking advantage. 

370
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:52,300
Integer being greedy, right? 
Oh, I know this class was $40, 

371
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:56,200
or this class was $199, or this 
class was $250. 

372
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,600
Your company probably spends 
much more on paper in a day than

373
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,100
that. 
And this isn't is going to help 

374
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,300
much Beyond. 
So when you've already made the 

375
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,100
investment, you can always start
with something. 

376
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:09,600
If you're afraid that they'll 
say no. 

377
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,800
Number one is, you can start 
with something you've already 

378
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,000
done. 
And then let's say that you 

379
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,500
haven't taken this class yet. 
But maybe you've seen it. 

380
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:17,600
You can go. 
I want to do it but I'm not. 

381
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,700
Really sure the way I would 
coach you on. 

382
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:24,200
That is, I would say, have a 
conversation with your boss 

383
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,300
because you're going to have a 
one-on-one, most of us have 

384
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:30,300
one-on-ones weekly, or at least 
twice a month and when you have 

385
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:32,300
that conversation and you're 
reporting in on. 

386
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:33,700
Okay. 
So now that I'm in this role, 

387
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:36,300
I'm realizing there's bunch of 
things I want to get even better

388
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:39,500
at and I know that you're really
busy and don't have time to 

389
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:43,000
Mentor me and I know that, you 
know, internally maybe we have a

390
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,900
workshop that's happening for 
our new managers six months from

391
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:47,600
now, but I want to hit the 
ground running. 

392
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,900
NG. 
And so I found this class that 

393
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:53,500
will help me to get better as I 
go. 

394
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,400
And give me the support that I 
need and you want to fall and 

395
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,700
then you can pause and see how 
they respond because they might 

396
00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:04,900
say great done. 
If they have an objection, you 

397
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:08,100
want to listen to what is it? 
That they really care about. 

398
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,100
So they might be worried about, 
oh well, who's going to do your 

399
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,100
job while you're taking this fun
class? 

400
00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:19,100
Or they might say, oh well we 
really need all hands on deck or

401
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:23,000
they might say well budgets 
really tight right now and so 

402
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,800
instead of taking this as a 
shutdown know, you want to take 

403
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,700
this as oh great. 
You're telling me what you care 

404
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,000
about. 
Here's how I can present this. 

405
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,800
So it's an alignment with what 
you care about. 

406
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,400
About and why you don't have to 
worry at all, and this is 

407
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,200
actually going to make your life
a whole lot better. 

408
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:39,100
Yeah, that's great. 
We can talk about things like, 

409
00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:41,200
I'll do it in my own time and 
here's how it will help me. 

410
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,800
More be more effective in my day
job, or you can really kind of 

411
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,600
address that objective rather 
than addressing. 

412
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:50,900
Every fear you have in your head
about how they might react. 

413
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,700
Exactly. 
Okay, so let's talk through 

414
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,100
another scenario because this is
the one that I get a lot with 

415
00:22:57,100 --> 00:23:00,900
the courses that I teach. 
So I teach really skill-based 

416
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:04,200
product management courses and I
get a lot of that, like, 

417
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,200
resistance around. 
I should already know how to do 

418
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,000
this skill and I especially get 
it from people more senior in 

419
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,300
their career. 
So they might be 15 years in. 

420
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:16,900
They might even be a leader of 
teams and they just feel like 

421
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:20,600
the world changed around them 
and that they are like it's 

422
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,800
really hard for director. 
Of product to say, I need to 

423
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,700
take a skill on how to interview
customers, because there's this 

424
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:30,300
feeling that like I should 
already know how to do that. 

425
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,600
So how would you coach someone? 
That just sort of has that fear 

426
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,900
around? 
Isn't this something that it's 

427
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:39,100
just part of my job that I 
should be doing? 

428
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,000
I'm really glad you're saying 
that because that gets to a very

429
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:51,400
important and very emotional 
block that that people have and 

430
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,500
if you don't Don't get through 
it, you are going to really 

431
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,900
paint yourself into a corner and
plateau and you really cut 

432
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,900
yourself off from improving and 
getting better. 

433
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:08,500
And number one is that I want to
see it like this. 

434
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:16,300
People and the way that we work 
it is not a static thing and so 

435
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:19,400
the thing that's really nice is 
when you're wanting to continue 

436
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,700
your learning and especially if 
you've been the person who had 

437
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,400
to figure it out and never had 
official guidance. 

438
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,900
You never had training, I have 
people come into my new managers

439
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,200
workshop and they say, well I've
been managing people for like 15

440
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,800
years but I never got training 
on it. 

441
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,800
And so what they say when I ask 
them, what great like, why are 

442
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,900
you here, what? 
You want to learn today, they 

443
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:45,700
said, I just want a fresh 
perspective or they'll say, I 

444
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:48,800
know that there are probably 
things that I could be doing 

445
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,000
better, but I've never had 
anyone to talk with about this. 

446
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,900
And so, the great thing is that 
number one, you will also 

447
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,600
realize in the course of 
learning that there are things 

448
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,100
that you didn't even realize 
you're doing that are really, 

449
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,100
really great and when, you know 
what those are, you can then 

450
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,800
amplify them and put more energy
to them. 

451
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,900
And you'll also notice, though, 
there are things that I could be

452
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,200
doing better. 
And I had never even thought of 

453
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,700
that, because I've been just 
figuring it out all of this 

454
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:18,600
time. 
And one of the things I love 

455
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,000
about being, especially in a 
group learning environment, is 

456
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,700
that you will learn so much from
the other people. 

457
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,300
And if you ever get the chance 
to be in a learning environment 

458
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:34,300
with people who do not work with
you, you will learn even more 

459
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:36,700
because you'll feel more 
relaxed, you won't feel like you

460
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:39,700
have to manage your image or 
manage the relationship because 

461
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:43,500
you have to work. 
Everyday, you can learn so much 

462
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:46,600
by people who are in different 
industries by people who are at 

463
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,500
different stages of their career
and who work in different 

464
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,400
companies. 
So I always recommend people to 

465
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,600
do that when we can, yeah, 
you're raising a really good 

466
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,600
distinction, so there's kind of 
this distinction between a 

467
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,300
performing mindset in a learning
mindset and a lot of our lives 

468
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:06,200
at work is we have to operate 
under a performing mindset and 

469
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,700
we can learn while trying to 
perform but it's really hard. 

470
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,200
They interfere r with each 
other. 

471
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,400
Whereas I think in a course you 
can set that performing, mind 

472
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,100
set aside and really just focus 
on how do I practice and how do 

473
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:21,900
I learn what's in front of me? 
And so, even if it's a skill, 

474
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,300
you've been doing all the time 
in a performing context, you're 

475
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:29,900
really going to level up in a 
learning context, I agree. 

476
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,100
Okay. 
So tell me a little bit about 

477
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:35,900
like are there certain times in 
my career when I should ask her 

478
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,100
budget? 
Like I hear from young people 

479
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:39,700
that are like I'm in my first 
year. 

480
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:43,500
I can't ask For anything more or
people even really senior that 

481
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:44,700
are. 
Like, I should spend my budget 

482
00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:47,800
on my team, not on me, tell me a
little bit about who should be 

483
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,400
asking. 
And when yeah, there are a few 

484
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,900
really great times of the year, 
when it's very natural to bring 

485
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:56,800
up this conversation, anytime 
you're doing performance 

486
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,700
reviews. 
So your annual performance 

487
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,800
review, mid-year reviews, 
whatever, that cycle looks like 

488
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,000
in your company. 
Because that's usually a time. 

489
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000
When everyone is in the mindset 
of, let's take the high level 

490
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,300
picture of, how are you doing? 
And where are you going? 

491
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:13,500
Where do you want to go? 
What do you want to do next? 

492
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,800
What do you need to get better 
at? 

493
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,600
What do you want to get better 
at? 

494
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,700
That's also when you have the 
conversation where you might 

495
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:21,000
say, you know, for the last 
three months I've been working 

496
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,400
on this really intense project 
and I've realized I need to get 

497
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,600
better at having difficult 
conversations because right now,

498
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,200
I completely shrink. 
I'm so afraid in this person. 

499
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,000
Totally overpowers me, or on the
other hand I end up. 

500
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,400
Everyone is always mad at me 
because they say that, I don't 

501
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,200
listen or because I To direct 
and blunt. 

502
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,600
And now, I don't know how to get
this done because nobody wants 

503
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,200
to talk to me and deal with my 
emails. 

504
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,200
So anytime there's a performance
review, conversation mid-year, 

505
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,100
or quarterly, or annual is a 
great time, also rule of thumb 

506
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,500
towards the end of the year. 
So Q3 and Q4, because that's 

507
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:05,200
when any existing budget is now 
going to need to get spent. 

508
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,000
It's also the same reason why we
get so many ads for eyeglasses. 

509
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,200
You know, like, At that time of 
year, use your use your FSA, use

510
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,800
your HSA funds, it's the same 
idea if your company has budget 

511
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,400
set, aside their suddenly. 
Now looking at that saying, oh 

512
00:28:19,408 --> 00:28:22,100
my gosh, we need to spend this 
money by the end of the year. 

513
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,800
Otherwise, we'll lose it or 
it'll go to this other 

514
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,500
department. 
So that's another good time to 

515
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:29,600
ask. 
You, let's break this down a 

516
00:28:29,608 --> 00:28:31,900
little bit because I think it's 
counterintuitive for people that

517
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:33,800
are not involved in the 
budgeting process. 

518
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,200
So if my company decides to 
spend a hundred thousand dollars

519
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,400
a year on professional 
development, and we get to 

520
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,600
November and only 25,000 of it 
has been spent. 

521
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,800
Why is the company motivated to 
spend that 25,000? 

522
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,400
That's remaining. 
Oh my gosh. 

523
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200
I'm so glad you mentioning this 
because it does seem 

524
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,300
counterintuitive. 
You think. 

525
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:54,400
Oh I'm doing such a good job of 
saving the company money and I'm

526
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,900
not spending it but if the money
doesn't get spent that suggest 

527
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:01,700
that either whoever was setting 
that budget did a bad job and 

528
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,700
that money could have been spent
someplace else. 

529
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:05,800
So obviously it makes them look 
bad. 

530
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:09,900
Like, oh my gosh, she put too 
much money but it also can make 

531
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:15,400
it Go away next year so that oh 
we obviously we budgeted twenty 

532
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,800
five thousand, we only spent 
7500. 

533
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,100
So next year, we'll have an 
eight thousand dollar budget 

534
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:22,300
instead, and then the person is 
like, oh no. 

535
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:25,500
But there's this really 
significant thing that we are 

536
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:28,600
going to need at this time. 
And so, it just creates more 

537
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,900
complication, and it creates 
problems for people. 

538
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:35,200
If there's budget set aside, 
then the job of the person who 

539
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,000
allocated that budget is to make
sure that it's used 

540
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:41,200
appropriately. 
When, Come up and say, hey I 

541
00:29:41,208 --> 00:29:45,000
have this really great ask and 
you've got budget for it. 

542
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,800
The person who's at the budgets 
can give great. 

543
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,100
I did the right thing by 
earmarking twenty five thousand 

544
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:53,300
dollars so that this person 
could do that thing. 

545
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:57,000
Yeah, I think there's also this 
element of when the company is 

546
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,100
setting that budget. 
They're saying we want to invest

547
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:04,500
this amount in professional 
development like for us to be 

548
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,900
successful as a company. 
We need to be investing this 

549
00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:11,500
amount in our employees And So 
It Goes On Unused it kind of 

550
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:15,400
raises this concern of like we 
are we taking the time to 

551
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,500
develop our staff. 
So it really is like you're 

552
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,600
helping Everybody by using that 
professional development budget 

553
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,500
and also hey, we care about 
professional development. 

554
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,300
So we're setting aside this 
budget but if no one is asking 

555
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:29,900
for it, maybe they don't care 
about it. 

556
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:32,200
Yeah. 
Maybe you know, we should just 

557
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,700
buy them something else instead 
so it's a way of signaling. 

558
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:37,900
No, this is good. 
Like we're on the same page 

559
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:41,100
here. 
Okay, great. 

560
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:42,800
So we've covered a lot of 
ground. 

561
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,600
I think this has been really 
helpful. 

562
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,800
Can you think of anything else 
that people should know about 

563
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:49,900
asking for professional 
development budget? 

564
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:56,500
You know, just if it's if it 
feels scary, it's probably 

565
00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:00,000
because you've never even never 
made that kind of asked before, 

566
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,800
get really curious about what's 
the underlying emotion? 

567
00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:05,200
Are you like? 
What are you afraid? 

568
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,100
People will think. 
What are you afraid? 

569
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:11,700
It means about you if you ask 
because that will be very 

570
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,500
valuable for you to know in 
order to get through it. 

571
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:19,700
I also am a big fan of making 
the ask in person rather than by

572
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:21,500
email because you have more 
control. 

573
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,200
Roll over the message and you 
see how it lands people are 

574
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,500
busy, they read things really 
fast, it's easy for them to then

575
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:30,500
just neglected and get to it 
later. 

576
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,100
So if this is something you 
really care about have a 

577
00:31:34,108 --> 00:31:38,000
conversation and and I will tell
you, it's a lot better to 

578
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,500
practice on something small 
first. 

579
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:45,100
Before you make the really big 
ask for, oh I want to go to New 

580
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:48,900
York, to take Teresa's workshop 
for a weekend, or you know, 

581
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,000
whatever. 
The big thing is that you want. 

582
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,700
So Have fun practicing with 
small things first, get good at 

583
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:56,800
that. 
And then you might find, oh, 

584
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,000
that's actually really 
beneficial to everybody. 

585
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,500
Yeah, this is love this, because
this is so consistent with sort 

586
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:07,700
of the product world that I'm in
of starting small, iterating 

587
00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:09,800
from there. 
So you might even start with, 

588
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,900
hey, I just want to buy a book, 
it's related to my role and then

589
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,900
you might graduate to the 40 
Dollar General Assembly class 

590
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:19,600
and then you might generate to 
the graduates of the couple 

591
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,400
hundred dollar five week class, 
then. 

592
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:25,300
Suddenly you're going to the big
conference and you're just each 

593
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:29,100
iteration is a small test fix 
giving you permission to try the

594
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:32,200
next test. 
Yeah and the thing I'll say to 

595
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,200
is get really curious about all 
of the different ways that you 

596
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,500
can learn and grow. 
I'll let you know what we all 

597
00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:41,500
learn differently. 
Some of us really like online 

598
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:44,800
learning some of us like being 
present in a classroom. 

599
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,300
Some of us want a book to read 
some of us want one-on-one 

600
00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:51,200
coaching and it and it might 
just depend on what's going on 

601
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,000
in your Life. 
When a, what is the kind of 

602
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,500
learning that will help you the 
most? 

603
00:32:55,700 --> 00:33:00,000
I have had people go from my 40 
dollar co-chair of my 40 dollar 

604
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,200
class to then engaging me. 
One-on-one. 

605
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,100
And their work pays for that 
too. 

606
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,200
Yeah, because they take my class
and they come back and they say,

607
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,500
oh my gosh, I found the woman 
who can coach me through this 

608
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:14,000
challenge. 
I have at work and, you know, 

609
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600
and they get that, they get the 
budget for it to work with me 

610
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,500
one on one, which is, you know, 
one of the higher offerings that

611
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:22,700
I have. 
So, it's It can be really easy 

612
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:26,200
to just think your job is to do 
your job and just be heads down 

613
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,000
in the work of it. 
But the bigger picture is your 

614
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,900
job, is to promise to be an 
amazing human and to enjoy 

615
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:36,000
learning and growing and 
continuing to help and uplift 

616
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,700
those around you. 
And so that requires that, you 

617
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:43,100
take that step back from time to
time and think about what would 

618
00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:45,700
I like to learn? 
What do I want to get better at 

619
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,200
0? 
And you know you don't have to 

620
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,200
focus on your weaknesses. 
Let me just say I'm really not 

621
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,100
good. 
This one thing and now that I 

622
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:56,400
know that I will direct my 
career in a direction that 

623
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,100
allows me to really amplify what
I do excel at. 

624
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,500
Yep. 
You know, I get this a lot with 

625
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:04,500
my interviewing course. 
I get people that say, I've been

626
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:07,300
interviewing for 20 years and 
it's that same thing you're 

627
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:08,600
hearing in your management 
class. 

628
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,100
I want a fresh perspective, I 
want to reinvest in this skill 

629
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:15,600
because it is a strength that 
I'm relying on week over week. 

630
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,800
And I just want to see what's 
out there, and I think that's a 

631
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,300
great mindset of, it's not just 
about About patching up your 

632
00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:24,300
weaknesses. 
But how do you keep reinvesting 

633
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:26,600
in the engine? 
That's driving your roll. 

634
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,900
Yeah, and you know, I feel like 
the one that I that we haven't 

635
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:33,800
talked about that, I want us to 
just touch upon, you know, with 

636
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,199
you and all the coaching that 
you do. 

637
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,400
I know you're very much in the 
tech world and I live in San 

638
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,100
Francisco. 
And a lot of my clients, and a 

639
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:43,900
lot of the work I do is in the 
tech World, both the very early 

640
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,400
stage startups, but also Global 
media Empires. 

641
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,300
And what's interesting and 
fascinating to me, is that no 

642
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:56,100
matter What technology C creates
a no matter what technology can 

643
00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:57,900
do for us. 
Nothing works. 

644
00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:02,100
Unless humans can connect with 
each other and work 

645
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,800
collaboratively together and 
learn from each other. 

646
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,000
And so it's always a value to 
invest, especially if you're in 

647
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,400
the tech space, we get very 
focused on the technology and we

648
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,900
forget the value of learning how
to be a great listener. 

649
00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:24,000
How to do those those wonderful.
Client conversations and 

650
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
interviewing and how to manage 
others. 

651
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,500
We tend to take that for 
granted, but it is so important 

652
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,400
we do and, you know, the 
community piece of it like, as a

653
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,500
course designer with my, 
interviewing course, I spent so 

654
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:38,700
much time on the instructional 
material and overwhelmingly. 

655
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:41,300
The feedback I get is, how much 
people loved meeting other 

656
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:43,500
people in the course and how 
much they learned from other 

657
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:45,900
students. 
And I think there's, it's so 

658
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:49,000
easy to get caught up in our 
world and how our company works 

659
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,000
and just having that opportunity
to connect with other People and

660
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,800
see that. 
There's lots of ways to do the 

661
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,600
same thing, really refreshing 
and empowering. 

662
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,600
Absolutely agree. 
All right. 

663
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,000
Well, Kim. 
If I am interested in your 

664
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,200
managing humans class, how do I 
learn more about it? 

665
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,000
You can go to my website, Kim 
nickel.com. 

666
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,900
And that's the easiest way to 
find out what I'm up to. 

667
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,500
You can also follow me on 
LinkedIn. 

668
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:21,100
I often post, you know, my 
classes and my workshops and 

669
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:25,500
photos, but from clients and 
workshops and things, but I'm 

670
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:28,200
very easy to find online. 
Awesome! 

671
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,800
Alright. 
Well, thank you so much for 

672
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,200
doing this Kim. 
I think it's going to be really 

673
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,700
helpful for to a ton of people 
my pleasure. 

674
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:36,600
It's always a treat to talk with
you. 

675
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:46,600
Awesome if you know it's time to
level up but you feel your 

676
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,000
perfectionism Self Doubt and 
uncertainty getting in the way. 

677
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:54,900
Then come work with me. 
We'll have six months of 

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00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:59,000
one-on-one coaching and it all 
starts by going to my website. 

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Kim nickel.com coaching and 
joining my waitlist talk to you 

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00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:06,800
soon.