Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hi, welcome back.
Last week I was talking about feedback and then I taught a
workshop on it and I have to tell you it was so much fun
because I feel like feedback is one of these topics at work that
nobody gets training on like everyone experiences it first by
being on the receiving end of it and then at some point as part
of your job. It becomes necessary to give
other people a feedback and so we all learn just on the Fly by
being alive. And when we get together and
talk about what is difficult, what is working.
There's a surprising amount of common ground, but also so many
insights, it is such a cool thing to talk about.
And one thing that came up was the At that the feedback
conversation really is a micro climate or you can think of it
as a specific venue for other kinds of things to happen.
So it's where trust happens. It's where leadership happens.
It's where what is this relationship really about
happens? There is so much that can happen
within a feedback conversation and for you too.
As the person who's giving feedback.
It's also a call to reflect upon and develop your own
communication skills as well as your own self awareness skills.
So I have been feeling really excited about feedback and I had
a few other ideas that came out through the conversation with my
students in the workshop that I wanted to share with you.
Oh, and one other thing, what was really cool too?
Is that not everyone? In my workshop has direct
reports and this is also true of my listeners.
So, and and my students, not everyone has a direct report
because being a manager Moving into this manager skill.
Set doesn't always happen when you have direct reports.
There is so much of managing by influence that happens in the
workplace. You might be someone who manages
volunteers, who is a coordinator of volunteers, you might be
someone who's responsible for handling the intern summer
program. You might be a product manager
or an office manager, or you might just need to manage.
Judge your boss. The idea of managing up is a
thing and it is a way of managing people even if that's
not a part of your title. For most of us managing people
is something that we face all the time whether or not we think
of it that way. So a couple other ideas to share
with you about feedback. Number one, ask yourself, How do
you feel about feedback? Both giving it to others and
also receiving it. This was a really interesting
question in our workshop with everyone is that giving it
receiving, it everyone has had different experience of it.
Some of it positive, some of it, very uncomfortable, but get
really clear for yourself about how you feel about it because
this will help to guide you in where you need to grow.
And especially around things you've been avoiding or things
that make you uncomfortable, which is a normal human thing.
So it's totally fine. Especially because feedback is
so much of a relationship and communication based skill.
And a lot of people like that is not the thing.
They're good at, it's not bad, it's just true.
So, I know people and they are really good at their core thing,
you know, it's designed its Gramming its sales, it's
whatever their core thing is, they're so good at that, but the
moment they then have this, this responsibility of giving
feedback they're a little bit out of their depth of Genius.
They're a little bit uncertain about how to do that.
Well and also because, you know, it does not, it is not fun to
feel incompetent at something, especially if you are known for
being highly competent, at the thing, you're really good at I
just want to acknowledge that, that the more you can become
aware of, where do you feel uncomfortable about feedback,
whether you're giving it to somebody or even if you're
receiving it? Take a moment to reflect on this
maybe Journal about it or have a conversation with someone.
You trust just to clarify in your own mind.
Like what is your current relationship to feedback?
Like that will give you some clues about where you'll need to
work in order to develop the skill.
Okay? Number two, I think in the last
episode, we talked about no brutal honesty and no sugar
coating, right? Neither of Those are helpful.
We don't need brutality. We don't need to cover our
message. With all of these nice things to
try to control how the other person will feel.
And I wanted to add one more thing to that list, which is no
sandwiches. And this is a reference, of
course, to the feedback sandwich, which goes like this
first. I'll tell you something good.
Second, I'll tell you something bad.
And third, I'll tell you something good again or
sometimes the people feel it as a compliment criticism
compliment. Hey, I wanted to tell you a
really good job on that project. Now there are a few things that
you need to change but overall you're doing a really great job.
Now on the surface, this framework is not a bad thing and
there will be times when it can be useful and part of the Idea.
Is that we know that the human brain is really uncomfortable
with anything that feels like a threat.
So when we're offering a corrective feedback or feed that
that might be perceived as a criticism, Rosa threat, we want
to give the brain. Something a little bit more
inviting something, that'll keep it relaxed and feeling good.
So, we offer, positive feedback first but what becomes
problematic if you have been on the receiving end of these,
Feedback sandwiches. Then, you know that after a
while it just feels like a routine, it doesn't feel
genuine. And what my students have told
me and I've experienced this too, is that it's like, you can
see it coming. And at this thought comes into
the head of, oh, you're only telling me this nice thing in
order to tell me what you really mean, which is a mean thing.
Like you're really just cloaking a criticism like with this
compliment it almost becomes like sugar coating again.
And what happens then is that trust gets undermined and people
aren't receptive, and that just becomes kind of this theater
that we go through, in an attempt to give helpful
feedback. So I find that if you over rely
on this sandwich approach, everything that you offer that's
positive gets discounted people don't fully believe it.
And they will sort of brace believing like okay here comes
this negative feedback and they immediately start to get guarded
and kind of withdraw. So be aware that this can happen
and be selective about when you use this, sometimes it's useful,
but not always much like anything and part of growing as
a person and as a leader, is beginning to develop that
discernment. When does this approach?
Or when does this a tool become helpful?
And when is it not? So if you use the sandwich, a
lot, don't worry about it. You're not a bad person.
A lot of people teach this as the way to do it, but consider
alternatives will talk about some of those, a bit later, but
just put the sandwich down. Okay, now, another question to
ask yourself, what do you want to be different because of this
feedback? What do you want to be
different? What do you want to change?
Because you are giving this feedback and this one is
important because it also gets to like what is the big picture
what is it that that you are hoping will be different because
you tell them whatever you're going to tell them sometimes
when you ask that it will help you to clarify.
What is it that we really need to talk about here.
What is it? That really matters?
Be aware. What is it that you want to be?
Different because of this and the more you can get clear on
what the behavior is like what is the thing that they do that
you would like to be different that can also be so helpful in
thinking through what is the conversation you want to have?
Because asking someone to change a behavior is really different
than asking someone to be a different person.
And sometimes there will be personality conflict or
friction, but if you're giving someone feedback because you're
hoping to change who they are being that, Does not always
work. So well, and as I'm saying this,
there's one example, I think I can offer you.
One of my students was talking with me about someone, they were
having a personality conflict with and they were giving them
feedback and there was personality and attitude on the
other side, this the my client said yeah.
This this person is such a, he's so he's such a complainer, he
complains a lot. He has this really bad attitude,
he does his job well but he tends to Complain a lot and just
has this really you know, a bad attitude.
I just can't get with this guy. and I said, well, I'm curious
has this always been true or is this new and she says, oh,
that's always been true. Just really bad attitude but the
clients love him, he does a great job.
I thought that's very interesting.
So what is it that you would want to change about his
behavior? And she thought about it and we
talked through it and she was able to identify something very
specific. And I said I you know, I have an
idea that I want to offer and it's the possibility that right
now. Everyone's personality is
getting a bit Amplified. So the people who bothered you
before might bother you even more.
Because number one, you know, we're all a little bit more
sensitive or we're all a little bit more impatient or we'll all,
we're just all a little bit. War.
And also he's also going through whatever is happening in his
life. So, whatever his personality is
on a regular day. There's a good chance that that
might get Amplified now and she started laughing.
She said that is completely true.
It's like I can totally see that.
And so the idea then is, you know, we don't need to go into a
feedback conversation, feeling extra extra frustrated because
this person is just annoying with their Tude and the way they
complain about things, you know, you can give feedback and have a
really productive work relationship with someone
without needing to be their friend and without needing them
to, like you. And what's amazing is that when
we give ourselves that perspective, it actually creates
a lot more relaxation. It's like, oh yes, this is this
person. They complain a lot.
Maybe complaining is their favorite thing.
How nice that they have so many things to complain about, okay,
They do a great job with the clients and here's just one
thing that I want them to know because if they change, that
things will be better with the clients great and done.
And then you can let go of feeling.
Like if only this person was different than we could be
friends and get along, it's actually okay to not have to get
along with everybody. Of course, as a person like
myself were, Harmony is really important and I care a lot about
people getting along, you know, I tend to put effort towards
that. But it's not required.
You can still be really effective and your team can be
high-performing and people can enjoy their experience of
working, even if you're not all best friends and I actually
believe that's really healthy like it's okay to not be best
friends with everybody. You work with what I think
matters more is respect. Appreciation and value people
want to feel respected, people want their work and their
contribution to be appreciated and people want to feel valued
for who they are and for what they bring.
So Ask yourself, you know, what do you want to be different?
Because of this feedback? Because of this conversation?
Because that can help get a little perspective on what is
the conversation you actually need to have?
and the last thing, the fourth thing I want to share with you
in this episode around feedback is this idea of be Discerning
rather than comprehensive And the question you want to ask is
what is useful here? And sometimes what I've seen
with my students who are new managers is because they want to
do a really thorough job of giving feedback to someone.
They will give a very comprehensive detailed list of
all the things that could be different.
Here are all of the things that you could do differently, and I
think it would make an improvement.
And the downside is that the way Is received by the other person.
Can be really sort of trust breaking, because it can feel
like a long list of nitpicking really small things that don't
necessarily matter and that might simply be your preference,
not actually a deeply useful piece of feedback.
This also relates to the question of what is it that you
want to be different because of this Feedback.
When you know what that is you can be Discerning and choose
what is the feedback I want to communicate to this person that
will make the most important change and this also becomes
important because people's like our brains can focus on one
thing at a time. So for example if you are my
manager and you gave me 10 things that you thought I could
be doing differently then it would be hard to figure out
which of those two Should I start with?
I feel very overwhelmed which one is the most important.
How do they all relate together? The brain doesn't necessarily
know where to go and part of the role of giving feedback
especially if you're in a manager relationship is you want
to be thoughtful in. What is the thing to focus on
first? And then let the other ones.
Wait, right? Like, you don't have to be
comprehensive but let people know help to prioritize what to
work on First and why? Right?
So different ways of thinking about that will also affect the
way that you communicate the way that this person can receive
your feedback. And also, I mean, always coming
from this, this place of service like the attitude, of the reason
I'm giving you this feedback is because I see something that can
change, that will be better for you and for us, and for the team
and for the client, like it's never coming from this place.
Serve you are inadequate. That is one of the most painful
judgments that we can face and it's often one that we carry.
Anyways, like if you've ever had a little voice of self-doubt in
the back of your head or if you've ever felt like, oh my
gosh, people think I'm really amazing.
But what if I'm not or if you feel like, wow, everyone I work
with is so incredible and I secretly feel like I don't even
know if I deserve to be here. You Don't know all of the
different little quiet, undermining, thoughts, that can
be happening in people's heads. So, when we are giving feedback
part of what also becomes useful is this way of communicating,
hey, as a team like we together, I want to see you succeed.
I want to see you do. Well, I'm here to help you.
I'm going to give you feedback that will be most useful because
That's the kind of person and that's the kind of leader that I
want to be. I don't need to weigh you down
or burden you with thousand things of various importance.
So I get a little bit excited, I believe that relationships, make
work better or worse, preferably better.
But we've all probably been in situations where the lack of
trust or the lack of feedback has really gotten in the way of
being able to work well together to enjoy the people and the
relationships in the work that we do.
And just to do the best that we can.
So I hope this has been helpful for you.
I have some additional workshops coming up this summer and going
forward. So go to my website and check
them out. If you want to join, it would be
amazing to have you. Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening. Take care.
Do you want personal confidential help with your
situation at work? I offer one-on-one coaching and
can help you overcome challenges reach your goals and become a
more effective leader to schedule a consult.
Go to my website, Kim nickel.com coaching and we'll schedule time
to talk about what's going on with you and how I can help talk
to you soon.