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Welcome to the new Manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim Nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well. 

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If you are new to the show, you 
are in the right place. 

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If you are a new manager, if you
are a leader, if you are just a 

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human who works with other 
humans and wants to be able to 

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do that more effectively, that's
what we talk about here. 

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And we've been going even deeper
in the course that I'm teaching 

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right now. 
It's all about communication 

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strategies for managers and the 
conversation we've been having 

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have been so good. 
Like this is the fun thing about

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being in a live class 
environment where you get to ask

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questions and share celebrations
and talk through some of those 

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kind of stickier challenges and 
figure out what can you try to 

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do differently or, or what 
approach might you take. 

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And so if you're not already 
aware, I want you to know about 

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that course because it will be 
offered again and you want to 

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plan for it, whether that means 
both planning to talk to your 

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work about possibly sponsoring 
you and covering that cost as 

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part of your own professional 
development. 

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As we're coming into the end of 
the year, that might look like 

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performance reviews, that also 
might look like finding out what

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budget is left that has to be 
used for professional 

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development before, you know, 
before the the end of the year. 

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So if that is true for you, then
be thinking about that and know 

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that that is available. 
It is really cool to have like 

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live conversation. 
It tends to make it a lot easier

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to start to apply things when 
you know that you're going to 

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have me and a group of people to
come back to the following week 

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and share what's going on. 
So get the link to that into the

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show notes and you can join the 
wait list to sign up as soon 

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soon as it opens again. 
Now, today we are talking about 

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working with difficult people. 
And the simple truth is that 

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it's hard and it happens. 
You can't prevent friction from 

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happening no matter how hard you
try, no matter how good you are.

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It is so normal to experience 
friction and frustration and 

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even a clash of perspectives or 
priorities and also 

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communication styles. 
Because humans are human and 

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especially at work, we can 
sometimes forget, all right? 

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People have different 
priorities. 

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People have different 
communication styles. 

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People are trying to manage the 
pressure that they are feeling. 

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And we do it in different ways. 
And you know, sometimes we 

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forget that, you know, we have 
different ways that we have 

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learned work for us. 
You know, at one time was 

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coaching a client and she said 
like, why is this person, why 

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does why, why do they keep doing
this? 

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Why do they keep saying this? 
It's driving me crazy, like why 

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are they this way? 
Why are they doing this? 

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And the thought that I offered 
to her was, well, the reason 

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they're doing this is because on
some level this works for them. 

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This is the thing that they have
learned that when things are 

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difficult or when you're 
frustrated, the behavior that 

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you're experiencing right now, 
that is the thing that they have

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done in the past and it has 
gotten them the result or the 

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outcome that they wanted. 
And one of the things that 

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happens when we start to accept 
that, OK, we all have patterns 

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of communication. 
We all have ways that we behave 

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with others when we're feeling 
frustrated, when we realize that

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everyone has their own way and 
it might look different than, 

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you know, from how you do it. 
It allows you to start taking 

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things a bit less personally. 
And now it's not like, why are 

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they doing this to me, right? 
Why are they being so difficult 

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for me to work with? 
It shifts that perspective 

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enough where you can say, oh, 
this is so interesting. 

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I like they're this is what 
they're doing. 

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This is the behavior I'm 
observing. 

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This is the pattern that I'm 
noticing. 

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And once you start to let it not
be personal, then you can start 

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to get curious, which gives you 
more access to actually finding 

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a path through it and finding 
something that'll be more 

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workable to change it. 
So here's how I like to coach my

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clients and the general 
framework I wanna offer you. 

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Because, you know, it's one 
thing to try to never, ever, 

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ever have a difficult working 
relationship. 

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That actually takes a lot more 
energy, I think, than trying to 

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simply acknowledge, yeah, it's 
gonna happen from time to time. 

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It doesn't mean anything bad 
about you, and it might not even

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mean anything bad about the 
other person. 

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You know, sometimes a difference
in perspective can feel like 

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conflict or a difference in 
priorities can feel like 

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conflict. 
But you know, none of this means

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like when you encounter it. 
It doesn't mean anything bad 

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about you and it doesn't mean 
that you're not cut out for 

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leadership or for being a good 
manager. 

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It is just the new thing that 
you are learning how to address 

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on your own career path, on your
own life journey, right? 

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It's just a thing that is 
happening that you're going to 

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learn. 
You know what your options are. 

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It doesn't mean that you're not 
good at what you do or that 

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you're not cut out for it. 
So three things that will help 

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when you find yourself working 
with difficult people. 

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Number one, identify the real 
issue. 

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This one can sometimes be the 
trickiest one because when we're

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really caught up in a situation,
it can be hard to see clearly. 

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When we're taking things really 
personally, it can be hard to 

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find a more useful perspective. 
So we want to be able to take a 

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step back. 
Can we identify the real issue? 

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And we're going to ask questions
like what if any role do I have 

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in this dynamic? 
We're going to ask questions 

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like, what do I think is going 
on? 

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Like what's the story I am 
telling you know myself about 

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this behavior or about this 
situation, right? 

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Like what what is going on here?
Another great question to ask is

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to ask yourself why do I think 
this is happening? 

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And can I ask them like what are
you trying to accomplish here? 

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What are you trying to do here, 
right. 

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We want to start to understand 
like what what is really going 

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on? 
What is this about? 

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So identify the real issue and 
it's going to be different in 

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different situations, different 
contexts, different power 

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dynamics, different situations. 
We want to start with that 

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question. 
We want to slow down and really 

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kind of untangle it, look at all
the different angles. 

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So we figure out what is it that
we're actually trying to solve 

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for? 
What's the issue? 

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Once you do that Step 2, you 
will choose a strategy and next 

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steps. 
This is where the curiosity 

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becomes really helpful. 
We want to be curious about, 

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okay, this is the strategy I'm 
going to choose because I think 

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this is what's going on. 
Based on that, here are some 

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some steps I will take, some 
things I will do, maybe even a 

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very small adjustment I will 
make and let me see what 

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happens. 
It's not about choosing the 

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quote UN quote right strategy 
because honestly, there are so 

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many factors in play. 
You might not know exactly what 

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the right approach is until you 
started to take a couple of 

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steps in a direction because 
something will happen when you 

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do and that will give you more 
information. 

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So you can then adapt or adjust 
how you want to address the 

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relationship, the person, the 
situation. 

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Next, one of my favorite 
practices that I'll offer is to 

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look for the wins and to start 
telling people what they're 

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doing. 
Well, it's really, really simple

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and I talk about this in a few 
different contexts. 

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You might have heard me talk 
about this on the episode where 

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I talk about like celebrating 
the small wins or when I've 

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talked about giving feedback and
performance reviews. 

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You know, it's it's easy to 
forget that feedback doesn't 

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just mean here are the things 
that you're doing wrong or here 

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are the things that are falling,
you know, below expectations. 

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But giving feedback and giving 
that gratitude or that 

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appreciation of, oh, here's 
here's what I see you doing. 

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Well, it's such a small thing, 
but it can have such a big 

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positive effect because it can 
signal, hey, I appreciate you. 

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Your work is recognized, you are
valued. 

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I am seeing you. 
I am with you. 

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I am on your side. 
It can be a way of establishing 

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some connection and some 
goodwill. 

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And sometimes we just forget 
that part, you know, especially 

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if you have a bit of a 
perfectionist streak towards 

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yourself and you tend to 
overlook your own qualities that

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are, you know, that that are 
doing well for you. 

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If you tend to, you know, over 
overcorrect and tend to only 

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focus on the gaps and the things
that you feel you need to get 

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better at, it's easy to do that 
with others too. 

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And sometimes that very small 
shift right, is part of your 

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strategy. 
Let me just you know, what 

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happens if I give everyone on my
team a really genuine 

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appreciative compliment this 
week and let them know what I 

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appreciate about them and what I
see them doing well, what might 

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happen? 
Like, let's find out. 

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So you want to choose a strategy
and you want to choose to take 

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some next steps. 
Let them be small things that 

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you can easily put into 
practice, put into action, and 

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then see what happens. 
And then the third thing that 

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will help when you're working 
with difficult people, be OK 

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being uncomfortable. 
And I mean this in a few ways. 

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So it might be uncomfortable to 
give someone a compliment. 

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For example, it might feel 
uncomfortable to have a direct 

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conversation around, you know, 
I've noticed this and I'm 

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curious what you think about it 
and where this is coming from 

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because I was kind of surprised 
or I'm just, I'm kind of 

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confused about like this 
behavior that I'm observing. 

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Can you fill me in on what's 
what's going on? 

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It might be uncomfortable to be 
that direct, but also it might 

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be uncomfortable to stay with 
the discomfort that someone else

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is kind of spinning up around 
you. 

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And what I mean by this, this is
the kind of situation where you 

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might work with someone who has 
learned over the years in their 

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life that the best way to get 
things done for them is to make 

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other people uncomfortable. 
Because then when someone else 

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is uncomfortable, they will then
concede or, you know, give in to

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what that other person is 
wanting. 

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So they might be creating 
discomfort through, you know, 

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anger or impatience or pressure 
or like a passive aggressive 

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nature. 
It's, it's this really 

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interesting thing that honestly,
I, I think it mostly happens a 

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lot, a little bit on the 
subconscious level. 

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They've just learned that this 
is, this is an effective 

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strategy. 
I try to be very generous with 

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the perspective that I don't 
think people are intentionally 

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trying to like, be difficult. 
I think we just have different 

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strategies for how we like to 
get things done. 

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And some people have learned, 
you know, if I make things 

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uncomfortable enough for this 
other person, then I will be 

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able to get my way. 
And they're very comfortable 

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with you being uncomfortable. 
But if you are not comfortable 

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being uncomfortable, then you 
will fall into that pattern. 

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And it can feel very, very 
frustrating. 

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And it's like, what is happening
here? 

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So being OK with discomfort, you
know, and part of what I work 

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with my clients on when we coach
is let's really understand what 

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is the quality of discomfort 
here? 

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Like what is this really about? 
Because if we understand kind of

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what that's what that is, where 
that's coming from, it can give 

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us a lot of really good 
information. 

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So these three things, OK, 
you're dealing with someone, 

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you're thinking this is such a 
difficult situation, this such a

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difficult person. 
And you know, and by the way, 

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they might not be a bad person. 
You might really enjoy them in 

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another context. 
But in this particular work 

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relationship, things feel 
difficult and it's very 

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frustrating. 
Or they could be somebody that 

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you just genuinely don't vibe 
with. 

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Like you really just don't enjoy
them. 

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And yet here you are in 
relationship with them at work, 

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and you still need to work 
together effectively and 

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respectfully and in a way that 
doesn't drain right 'cause you 

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know, there are so many other 
things that you could use your 

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energy for rather than feeling 
drained by a work relationship. 

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So considering these three 
things, right? 

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Identify the real issue, choose 
a strategy and next steps. 

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Be OK being uncomfortable. 
A couple of extra notes. 1 is 

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that if you're a perfectionist, 
watch out that you're not being 

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too hard on yourself, that 
you're not trying to do it 

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perfectly. 
The goal here is process, not 

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perfection, so be willing to do 
things clumsy. 

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That also might be where some of
the being OK with discomfort 

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comes into play. 
If you are someone who dreads 

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conflict, be really 
compassionate with yourself and 

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also be willing to be 
uncomfortable addressing the 

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issue head on, like head on, 
heart forward and you know, feet

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grounded. 
That is a practice and there are

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so many reasons why people 
struggle with that. 

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It's really common for, you 
know, lots of different reasons.

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So just be mindful of that 
experience for yourself and 

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remember that, you know, it 
might take some practice and it 

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might take a new way of seeing 
the situation. 

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But as you do so, it will start 
to grow your courage, your 

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confidence, and it will start to
relieve some of that pressure 

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that builds up. 
And if you've experienced that, 

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you know you, you know what that
that feeling is like. 

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And remember too, that this is 
kind of what leadership 

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development is all about. 
It is about acknowledging when 

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you're in a leadership role that
will require you to effectively 

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work with different kinds of 
people, with different 

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perspectives, different 
priorities, different strengths.

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And all of those differences can
be part of what makes a team 

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really effective and really, 
really strong and really good. 

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But it requires communication 
skills, it requires a strategic 

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thinking, and it requires really
understanding yourself and the 

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things in your own background 
and experience that might be 

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tricky for you when you are in 
that position of needing to 

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communicate and make decisions 
and kind of, you know, work with

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people of different backgrounds,
perspectives, priorities, ages, 

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all of that. 
But you know, that's that's what

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we're here for, right? 
Right. 

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So anyways, that's what I wanted
to share it with you today. 

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If you want additional help, 
then reach out to me for 

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one-on-one coaching or get on 
the wait list for the next round

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00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,120
of communication strategies for 
managers. 

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All that you need to know is in 
the show notes or if you just go

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to my website, kimnickel.com, 
you will find everything you 

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need to know there. 
All right, have a great week and

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I will talk to you next time. 
When you're more effective at 

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work, you're happier in your 
life, and when you're happier in

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00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,319
your life, you're more effective
at work. 

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I can help. 
Go to my website, kimnickel.com 

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00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,880
and sign up for a coaching 
consult. 

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It can get better.