1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,600 Welcome to the new manager podcast. 2 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:18,000 I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome, I'm glad 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,600 you're here. I hope you're doing well. 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,400 And today I want to start with the celebration last week. 5 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:32,100 This podcast crossed over 50,000 listens. 6 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,400 That is so exciting to me. When I started this podcast, I 7 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:43,900 created it for the students that were in my A 90-minute class in 8 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:47,000 San Francisco. I wanted them to have something 9 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:50,400 that would support their learning even after class had 10 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,100 ended. And it really began to grow. 11 00:00:53,300 --> 00:00:57,600 But at the very beginning and you know, this, because I am 12 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,500 certain there have been times that you have created something 13 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,600 or had an idea for something and put it out into the world. 14 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:13,000 In the beginning, there is nobody listening and often. 15 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,700 That's what we tell ourselves to keep us stuck. 16 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:20,500 Will say, nobody's listening who would want to hear this. 17 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:26,000 And so you hold yourself back from creating work and from 18 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,900 releasing it. And I want to normalize that 19 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:37,300 that stage of the creative and creation process is just a Right 20 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:39,700 of the process. It's just one stage of it. 21 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:43,700 And the thing is is you don't want to stay there. 22 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:48,800 You don't want to get stuck there and so you can choose to 23 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,100 create something because you love it because, you know, it 24 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:59,800 will help one person and release it into the world and then be 25 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,200 surprised and delighted and celebrate as it goes out and 26 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,700 meets the people and needs to hell. 27 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:10,300 Help. So even though I'm at 50,000 28 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:14,900 downloads now and there are hundreds of listeners from all 29 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:18,100 around the world and I love it when you write to me. 30 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:24,100 So, definitely feel free to send me a note or leave a review, but 31 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:29,500 it starts at it starts with an idea, it starts with your belief 32 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,500 in what you're doing, even when in the beginning, it seems like 33 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,600 nobody else is Watching or listening and you might use that 34 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:45,400 to question what you're doing. And instead, knowing that, 35 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,900 that's just a normal stage and you can continue with the 36 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:52,700 creative work and the process of getting it out there. 37 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,000 So thank you for being a listener. 38 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,200 And for helping me with that, exciting number, you're part of 39 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,500 that celebration to I wouldn't be celebrating if you weren't 40 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,300 listening. So we're in this together. 41 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,700 And it ties in a little bit with what I wanted to share with you 42 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:16,600 today, which is the idea of purpose over Perfection. 43 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,800 And I think what happens is in the context of work and in the 44 00:03:21,808 --> 00:03:25,900 context of managing people is that when we are an individual 45 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:31,800 contributor and we have a specific task that is ours to do 46 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:35,200 or a specific problem. That is yours to solve. 47 00:03:35,500 --> 00:03:39,900 We can focus on how Can I solve this in the most perfect way? 48 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,200 How can I be precise and comprehensive? 49 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:49,900 And we can really know narrow our focus into the one specific 50 00:03:49,900 --> 00:03:52,200 task or the thing that is ours to do. 51 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,800 And then when we start managing people, one of two things will 52 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,600 happen either. You then expect others on your 53 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,500 team to have that same level of focus and perfection. 54 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,200 That you do. So you think they should do 55 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,300 things, the way you do things and that will create pressure 56 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:22,100 and frustration or you will feel frustrated because you can't be 57 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:28,500 as Hands-On as you were before. And the thing that you got 58 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:33,000 really good at which was managing a specific task or 59 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,700 problem in a very perfect way. Now that your man And people 60 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:42,300 you're not doing the work directly, you're managing and 61 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:45,800 helping the work to get done through the efforts of others. 62 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,500 That's really a different job and you might not realize that 63 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:53,000 at first because you'll just assume. 64 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:56,700 You know, the way that you do things is how other people do 65 00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:59,400 things and so there can be a sense of Disconnect. 66 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,800 And then what happens is we over emphasize. 67 00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:08,000 The idea of perfection we can forget about The humans that are 68 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,200 doing the work and so we can then become micromanaging. 69 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,600 We can exert a lot of pressure and we lose sight of what really 70 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,500 matters. And I think this gets reinforced 71 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:24,900 for a lot of us through our childhood and through our 72 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:29,600 education, because we're often rewarded and celebrated for 73 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,100 doing things in accordance to someone else's standard of 74 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,100 perfection. And for some of us, we have Our 75 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:40,100 own internal standard of perfection and we like to be 76 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:44,800 very meticulous with those things and that's just normal 77 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,700 for us. And we don't always understand 78 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,600 why other people are not that way. 79 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:58,000 We forget that people very so how this can show up and a 80 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,200 couple of stories I want to share with you, so, in some 81 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,900 contexts, well, actually, let me back up. 82 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,800 So, the reason why this Matter is we want to pay attention to 83 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,200 the purpose. The reason why the relationship 84 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,300 of outcomes, the desired goal we want to spend more time being 85 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:23,400 curious about that and giving attention to that purpose rather 86 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,800 than Perfection by itself. And there are times when the 87 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,200 idea of perfection is really important. 88 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,200 For example, my brother used to work in manufacturing working 89 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,900 with these really big machines and he was managing the people 90 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:42,600 who worked on these machines and he was responsible for some of 91 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,300 the training of the people. And also knowing when different 92 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:52,300 parts of the machines would need to be replaced and that became 93 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:56,400 really important. Both the training aspect how We 94 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,700 were trained to use this equipment and also understanding 95 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:08,400 how often a certain part in a machine needed to be replaced. 96 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,300 That became really important to know, in order to keep people 97 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:17,300 safe, because if people used the equipment wrong, they could 98 00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:23,500 become seriously hurt or if a part in the machine wore out and 99 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:27,800 it was not expected. Then again the machine could 100 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,000 malfunction and people could get hurt and of course that creates 101 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,700 disruption and slow down on the production line. 102 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,500 So in that sense it's important to to have a level of, you know 103 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:45,900 Perfection and how you trade in how you use the equipment. 104 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:54,200 But the purpose behind, it is about ensuring a safe working 105 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,800 environment. It is about Ensuring a smooth 106 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,100 and consistent and predictable process and production line in 107 00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:10,700 that context, that's the reason why we care about perfection in 108 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:16,100 contrast to someone that worked with years ago. 109 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,800 And she came to me, feeling frustrated, because she had 110 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,700 gotten a performance review and her manager had given her all of 111 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:28,400 this list. Of things that she didn't do 112 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,200 perfectly. And some of them were very 113 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:36,200 nitpicky, very small little things and this person was 114 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,200 feeling discouraged like she couldn't do anything, right? 115 00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:45,400 Her manager, noticed, all of these things she did wrong 116 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,000 according to her and I asked her, I said, well, did your 117 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,100 manager tell you anything, you did. 118 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:56,100 Well, did your manager highlight any of your strengths? 119 00:08:56,300 --> 00:09:00,700 Or accomplishments or celebrate anything about you. 120 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:04,800 And the way that you work and this person said no, she didn't. 121 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:10,100 And I thought about it for a moment and I asked what was this 122 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:14,600 manager doing before they were your manager was their job? 123 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:19,000 And she thought about it and she said, oh she worked in 124 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:24,100 management consulting for one of the big consulting firms and 125 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:28,400 that was the AHA. And I said, you know, I said, so 126 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,800 what you're telling me is that before this person became your 127 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:37,000 manager, their job was to go into other companies. 128 00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:41,800 Find all the things that weren't working perfectly and then 129 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,600 deliver that as a report, like that was the measure of success 130 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,100 is how many things can we find that are not working? 131 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:53,200 Well that could be better. Like the her job was to optimize 132 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,900 processes and other companies and she said oh Yes. 133 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,400 And we realized then that the manager was probably bringing 134 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,800 that same attitude that same idea of being successful means 135 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,500 that I look very closely at all the potential things that are 136 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:16,900 going wrong and I surface all of them. 137 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:22,000 And I don't notice the things that are going well and it's not 138 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,500 that the manager was trying to be demoralizing. 139 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:32,600 It was Plea, that she had lost sight of purpose because she was 140 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,100 moving towards her version of perfection, which was let me 141 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:41,400 give you comprehensive negative feedback, even though it doesn't 142 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:45,300 actually help. And you can listen to more of 143 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:50,000 the episodes in the, in the stack here on feedback. 144 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,700 Because that's something I talked about quite a lot. 145 00:10:51,700 --> 00:10:55,700 But it's just very interesting to know, right? 146 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:59,000 Like what Is the purpose and in this case it seems like that 147 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000 manager had lost sight one other story. 148 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,800 I want to share, I was talking with a friend of mine recently 149 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,500 who was also having some friction with her manager and my 150 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,600 friend described herself as really, no, really creative and 151 00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:17,600 she likes, you know, she's like, I'm kind of like a jazz 152 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,500 musician. I like to improvise, I like to 153 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:23,800 figure this out as I go. I'm really creative and 154 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,300 expansive in my thinking. And she was having some friction 155 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:33,000 with her manager who really wanted a level of perfection and 156 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,200 precision that didn't make sense to her. 157 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,000 And she was also getting some negative feedback as a result of 158 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,000 these different styles. Well, she learned later that 159 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,300 before her manager was her manager, she had a background in 160 00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:55,300 software development for aircraft. 161 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,000 Like the level of perfection required to make sure that the 162 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,600 software running a plane is functioning is really important. 163 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,900 We want it to be perfect otherwise people could get hurt 164 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:11,600 a plane might fall out of the sky people could die. 165 00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:19,100 So it makes a lot of sense when we look at the balance between 166 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:24,200 purpose and Perfection, and what is the background that shapes 167 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,900 your relationship to that? And write, what is the 168 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:36,400 background that informs how you evaluate or how much emphasis 169 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:41,600 you put on the Perfection piece the way that you want things to 170 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:49,900 be and is that really required? Is that useful in this current 171 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:55,300 context and maybe it is and maybe it isn't but you want to 172 00:12:55,300 --> 00:13:02,000 be be aware of why you're driving towards Perfection and I 173 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,800 say this, as if you're the one who is moving, you know, driving 174 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,500 in that direction but it's also helpful if you're thinking about 175 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:13,900 the people that you work with, whether it's your manager or 176 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:19,200 other people on other teams and understanding, why some folks 177 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,900 get really obsessed about precision and Perfection and 178 00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:29,300 some folks, don't They have perhaps a different priority and 179 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:31,600 it doesn't mean that one person is, right? 180 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,700 And one person is wrong. One person is careful. 181 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,600 When person is careless, it doesn't have to mean that at 182 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,100 all. It can really be about what is 183 00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:44,800 the underlying purpose and the overall context, that is 184 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,900 shaping, the sense of reward and the sense of success. 185 00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:54,300 So consider consider all of that. 186 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,700 And when you are, Are in the role of manager. 187 00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:02,400 Then your awareness of purpose over Perfection becomes really 188 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:07,500 valuable because people also want to understand why when 189 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:11,700 there is a request or when you delegate work to them. 190 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:16,000 Or when you say I know you want to work on this but right now I 191 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,100 need you to work on this other thing. 192 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:22,200 Instead people want to know why and part of your role as the 193 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,600 manager is that you have a broader perspective, Is you have 194 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,800 a better understanding of how different things fit together 195 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:35,400 and the more that you can articulate the purpose, the 196 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,500 reason why people are being asked to do work, or the reason 197 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:45,600 why a certain deadline is important and a certain level of 198 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,000 perfection is or isn't important. 199 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,500 The more that you can explain that and convey the relationship 200 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:57,100 to folks the easier it is for people to To understand and get 201 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:02,700 behind it and have less friction in that relationship. 202 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:07,800 It also builds trust when people feel like decisions are not 203 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:14,900 simply arbitrary but they are grounded in thoughtful thinking. 204 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:23,300 So notice for yourself. What is your relationship to 205 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:30,400 purpose to Perfection and consider the context that you're 206 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:37,000 working in now and choose the most useful approach? 207 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,900 Maybe it's Perfection but often I find, we get a little 208 00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:44,300 overexcited about that when maybe it doesn't matter as much 209 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,500 as we think, always. Convective, purpose, purpose 210 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:52,500 over Perfection tends to be a more useful. 211 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:59,200 Adaptive, and responsive point with which, to consider the work 212 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,000 that you're doing. Ask yourself, what is useful 213 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:06,600 here? What is needed here? 214 00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:11,100 And let that be the guide. All right, thank you so much for 215 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,500 listening. I will see you next time. 216 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,400 Hey, before you go, if you like this podcast, please leave a 217 00:16:22,408 --> 00:16:26,200 review. Tell me why you listen and what 218 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,400 has helped you? Thanks so much. 219 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,600 I'll see you next time.