Welcome to the new manager podcast.
I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome.
I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well.
Today's topic is confident money conversations, we are going to
Dive Right In. And one of the reasons why I am
thinking about this is because so many of the people that come
to me for coaching come because there are conversations that
they're very uncomfortable having, whether they are
advocating for themselves, Or simply, you know, having
performance review conversations or asking for something or
sometimes it's around a specific person.
Like they're very confident, talking to some people but then
other people especially if there's a status or power
differential can just activate a whole lot of uncertainty and
insecurity and they feel all shaky and I have been thinking
about this in part because I decided To take singing lessons.
It is wonderful. I have the best teacher.
She is so patient. She is so kind and it is a
really playful class, but it's funny because I mean I'm the
kind of person who really likes to sing when I am driving, if
you are ever, you know, driving and you happen to look over.
And you see, you know, this half Filipino girl in her white car
singing to you. Do some kind of song it's
possible. It could be me.
I get a lot of Joy from singing in the car very loudly.
But in my singing classes, I get so nervous, I get so nervous
because it's different when you're, you know, sharing and
when you are speaking singing in front of somebody else, all of a
sudden, I start to feel more self-conscious and I was
thinking about that because I just was reflecting on how for
so many of my clients, you know, They also experienced similar
things and part of what we do in our coaching is, let's think
about what is the conversation you want to have?
What is the conversation? You might be avoiding and why
what is the conversation that you've been playing over in
your, you know, over and over and over in your head?
And then when it's time to have that live conversation with
another person, your body feels shaky your throat, might get
tight, your voice might. I tremble a little bit, you
might activate some self judgement, and a little bit of
that insecurity or uncertainty comes up.
And it's something that I can relate to.
I too am a human and I can do something really great when
nobody's looking. And then sometimes when someone
else is present, oh then it gets really challenging and so that
the environment, like having a dedicated Studio space, where
the work is, Kind of slow down. Take a look at what we want to
have happen here. What it kind of the challenges
you're facing so you can approach it in a way where you
really feel confident and grounded and can say the thing
in the way that you want to say it, you know, so it's we want to
get it out of your head a little bit and into your body so that
you can then actually embody and live it, you know, with another
human and money. Conversations are often very
uncomfortable for folks, especially in the workplace
because it's often something that feels very emotional.
Money is tied into so many emotions feelings of self-worth,
feelings of fairness. We have so many different
emotions and feelings around money.
What can I ask for? Is it fair?
If I ask for this, will they think I think something bad
about me if I ask for that and then when you become a manager,
there are a few interesting ways that you will have money
conversations. And with a lot of my clients, I
see that this is something a lot of folks come for coaching on
because it feels uncomfortable and especially if you are a high
empathy person, if you are very tuned in to the emotions of the
people around you, and if if someone that reports to you is
feeling very nervous about asking for a raise or having a
money conversation about a promotion, or if you have to
tell them that they are not getting a raise or not getting a
promotion and you're feeling really uncomfortable and worried
about that, it's just an experience that can create a lot
of discomfort that almost feels like This kind of wobbly
wobbliness like this kind of inner shaky and this feeling of
I want to get out of this conversation as quickly as
possible because it feels so awkward and uncomfortable.
And so I wanted to take today to give it some time, just by
itself among all of the different conversations and all
of the different ways that you communicate at work as a
manager, as a leader to shine a little bit of Light on
specifically around money conversations and this idea of
how do you feel and become more confident in having them first,
it helps to acknowledge that it feels awkward and uncomfortable.
Let's just start there. Let's just accept that as kind
of a normal thing. If you have not had a lot of
conversations around money and you haven't really understood
what makes it, Also, emotionally charged.
That is a totally normal thing to do.
Don't be hard on yourself for it.
What we want to do is slow down and take a look to better
understand what's going on. So here are a few different
situations where a money conversation in your role as a
manager might come up, performance reviews, and how
that ties to Promotions and raises.
Now, sometimes a promotion, It is a change in title, only and
does not affect compensation. On the other hand, sometimes
people can get a raise in their compensation, but their title
might not change. Because within a certain title,
there might be a range like a low end and a high end of what
what people can earn and also every organization is different.
So in some organizations, there are Very clear bands, both in
terms of what the level of the role is and what the
compensation is, for each specific band or each specific
level. Now you might work in an
organization or an industry or that does not apply at all.
And it's a little bit arbitrary. Like, it's very much invented
and there are no internal guidelines and that can bring
its own challenges to because then You have to think through,
you know, like how do we make decisions about what money goes
where and why, when you're thinking of either salaries, or
you're thinking of raises but just to come back to this basic
concept, the people that report to you will be having
conversations with you about how do I get promoted?
How do I get a raise? And so, you want to be aware of
that. And as you think about the
conversations you have, With them over the course of the Year
regarding performance and feedback, whether your
organization is highly structured and how they do this
or not, you simply want to have it in mind that this is a
conversation that will likely come up.
And depending on who the people are on your team, and what, you
know about them, it can be really helpful to think through
a plan, or at least a roadmap For what are the measures that
will be important in order for them to get that promotion or
get that raise? Depending on the situation you
might either initiate that conversation or they might.
But either way just be aware that it is highly likely to
happen. A conversation around promotions
and raises and what compensation happens with that bonus
structures. That come into play as well,
depending on your organization and Industry.
So just know that that comes into the equation.
Also another reason why you might be having money
conversations or just thinking about money with respect to your
role as a manager, I mentioned before on this podcast, when I
became a manager of a team, I then had access to see the
salary of every person on my team, but More than that.
I actually could see the salary history for as long as they had
been at the organization. And for me, it was kind of weird
because before I was their manager, I was their colleague.
So we had been friends and now all of a sudden I had access to
their their salary information which is really personal for a
lot of us. That's not something that we
talk about very readily. And so I really Had to
understand and respect my role as a manager separate from being
their friend. Because when you have power over
somebody's income and livelihood, that is significant
and it can create a feeling of awkwardness or a little bit of
weird. Discomfort, if you are shifting
from, hey, we work together. I'm on the same level as you.
We are peers and then you get promoted and now you have a
access to see what everybody is learning and what their history
is. So that's another situation
where you might not have expected to be in a position to
have money conversations with people or just to have that
level of visibility into what that looks like for your team.
Also with hiring. So when you are hiring people,
you are probably going to have money conversations either with
the hiring team thinking What do we have that?
We can offer this person. What is the range?
You may be having conversations with them also about what their
expectations are and what you know what they want, what
they're needing if that feels super uncomfortable, you want to
have a sense of that beforehand so that you can have a plan for
how you're going to have this conversation, what you want to
gain like what information or what relationship.
Building like what is a good outcome look like so that you
can also then feel into the feelings of it and prepare for
how will you support the part of you that either feels awkward or
uncomfortable in the same light, especially around hiring and
salaries. I also wanted to share with you,
you might already know this, but if not, I think you're going to
love it. There is a tick tock account and
also an Instagram account by this woman, her name is Hannah.
At Williams. She's amazing and her Tick-Tock
and IG. Our salary transparent Street.
And what Hannah does is she goes out on the street with a camera
and a microphone and she asked strangers, what do you do and
how much do you make? And she talks to all kinds of
people and it's super interesting to just get a little
more perspective on what kinds of salaries there are Are like
what people are making doing different kinds of things, in
different parts of the country. At the moment, all of her
interviews have been in the US. So, unfortunately, we don't get
kind of the bigger picture of what's happening in different
Industries, globally around the world.
But as an initial starting point, it's really fascinating
and it's really a rare look at people talking pretty
comfortably about what they do what they make if they feel like
they're being fairly Compensated.
How they got into it, it's super cool.
So, I wanted to give a shout out to that since we're talking
about how to have a confident money conversations and all the
different ways that might show up.
So those are some of the things that you can expect to encounter
as a people manager as a leader. And if you've never had those
kinds of conversations before then, it's normal to feel
uncomfortable or a little bit awkward, the other places I've
seen this come up. Is not you as the manager.
But when you become a manager and you're still thinking about,
what's next for you, there are like four different places where
this might come up. One is around your desire for
promotion and a raise. So you may be initiating
conversations with your manager about what does the path look
like for you to get a promotion? What is next for you?
And also, what does it look like for you to get a raise for to
get a change in your compensation and thinking
through what you want to ask for?
And when and how do you have that conversation and planning
it all out? Might look a little bit
different when you're a manager because a lot of what you're
being evaluated on, is not necessarily your direct work,
but it's kind of like the work you've been able to accomplish
Shhhh shhhh through the efforts of your team.
And so, you might be having this conversation in a slightly
different kind of way. I've also seen it where folks
start to notice that your work has slowly increased or maybe
dramatically if suddenly someone or, you know, multiple people
from your team have left and you've now had to absorb and
take on more of their work. And now you're doing more, but
your title is the same in your compensation is the same.
And after a while, you might wonder like, are we going to do
something about this? Like, I'm still being paid the
same amount, but I'm doing all this additional work because
these people have left and thinking about what is the
conversation you want to have with your manager, around
compensation or bonus, or, like, can we, can we shift, you know,
my title? To more accurately reflect the
work. I'm actually doing because it's
changed significantly. Since when I started, I think in
startups this happens a lot because things can move very
quickly and roles can be very Loosely defined and you evolve
and change very rapidly. And there's often not a formal
structure or a formal conversation plan in place.
And then, when day you look around and you're like, wait,
why I'm doing this? Totally different job compared
to the job that I started. Like, I started off here and now
I'm doing all of this and yet my title and my compensation have
not changed. Let's have a conversation about,
you know, making that an accurate reflection of the work.
So that's another place that it can come at and then to really
interesting ones, these are things that couple of clients
have come to me for coaching on and one is there can sometimes
be a fear? Fear that.
If I take on more responsibility, I'm afraid that
I'm going to have to work so much harder if they're going to
be paying me, this big amount. It's kind of a weird thing and
you often won't realize it until you're in it.
But what it looks like is you get offered a higher role or you
are applying for a new job somewhere.
And they're like, we love you, we love your background.
We want to pay you all this. Money and you're like, that's
way more than I was paid before. And your first thought is,
that's awesome, more money. Great that then the fear kicks
in of oh no they're going to expect me to do all this extra
work or it's going to be too hard or it's going to interfere
with my work life balance. And so, we assume that an
increase in Pay must correlate to an increase of time and
effort and that's not always true.
You. So, we want to really question
that assumption and that story because you might be cutting
yourself off from a really great opportunity because you're
afraid in advance, that it will cost you too much of your energy
or your time. And then related to this is if
you take on a job and you get paid a lot more than you've been
paid before and Times what happens is, that's what
activates the fear of maybe I'm not good enough, they're paying
me all this money. I got to give them their money's
worth and then from that fear place, it's like, oh, I need to
approve myself. I got to get in there and do all
these things. And sometimes that's then when
micromanaging can start to happen, is a response to feeling
a little insecure about, you know, who am I to get paid all
this money, you know, I really To show them that I'm worth it.
I really need to prove to them. And so it can create this really
interesting kind of anxiety, a loop where we feel a little bit
of fear of being exposed as maybe I'm not good enough to
Merit this level of compensation.
And that too is something that we really want to explore and
get you grounded on so that you're not either
overcompensating by micromanaging.
Or just acting from a place of uncertainty and that fear
somewhat related to that. Another thing I've seen is
sometimes we don't actually know if we're being competent, it
like under compensated, and we just assume, like, I'm just just
assume I'm being paid. Fairly, I just assume.
I'm being paid. Adequately like I'm doing good.
And then, what happens is, you either start to get recruited
have conversations with recruiters and realize Oh my
gosh, I did not realize that the market rate for my skillset
actually is this other number and maybe I'm actually being
underpaid out the place that I am and that can be a very weird
feeling when you think I feel like maybe I'm not being paid
appropriately, is that something I want to address?
And if so, how if I love where I work and I like, what I do, I am
now aware that my compensation something about this doesn't
quite feel right. It seems low based on this new
information that I'm getting that then becomes something we
want to look at and think about in terms of what is a
conversation you might have and when and why and if not then you
want to make sure for yourself that you feel really good about
your reasons for not having that conversation so that you don't
let any I kind of like resentment or a feeling of, you
know, I'm being taken advantage of.
We don't want to be working from that place, we want to be making
decisions for yourself in your career, that really line up with
your values and who you are as a person and what matters to you,
we want to take into picture kind of the whole landscape.
It's just sometimes we don't realize that there are other
features to the landscape that I did not know we're there until
we get some new information and then we think okay might be time
to have a money conversation. And what we want to do is we
want to get you from a place of feeling uncomfortable from
feeling weird of like what do I do and how do I do it?
And what if they have feelings about it?
Because I have feelings about it, we want to actually kind of
organize and get through all of that.
We want to understand what is behind Mind your discomfort like
what specifically is going on, that's creating that sense of
unease and we want to get a clear picture of what would a
good outcome look like for you, whether you are having a
conversation with someone on your team about their promotion
or the Rays that they're asking for or whether you are going to
be planning a conversation with your manager.
So that when we do those two things, get an idea of what's
really going on behind the Comfort and the fear get a clear
picture of what is the outcome that you want from there.
We can start to create a plan or a roadmap and when you have
that, you will feel so much more grounded, more calm.
And you'll have this greater sense of.
Okay, I've got this and that feels so different and so much
better. So, that is what I wanted to
share with you today. I would love for you to To be
able to have, and to feel more confident in the money
conversations that you have as a manager at work.
So that's what I wanted to share with you today.
If this is a topic that you would like some coaching on if
you want to work with me to feel more confident and all the
conversations that you're having not just around money.
But all the other things where you think, you know, I'm just
want to feel more calm about this.
I want to feel like I know what I'm doing here.
Then I can help go into the show notes.
Find a Time on My Calendar Book, a consultation, we'll talk about
it and then you get to decide how you want to move forward.
All right, thanks so much for listening.
I will talk to you next time. Hey, before you go, if you like
this podcast, please leave a review.
Tell me why you listen and what has helped you?
Thanks so much. I'll see.
See you next time. See you next time.