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Welcome to the new manager 
podcast. 

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I'm your host, Kim nickel. 
Hello and welcome. 

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I'm glad you're here and I hope 
you're doing well today. 

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I want to start with a 
celebration and a shout out to 

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my client Meghan. 
She attended a workshop that I 

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gave last week I did a teaching 
on self-advocacy and how to 

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speak up for yourself at work. 
And during that Workshop, I was 

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specifically teaching About how 
to ask your work to sponsor you 

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or to pay for you to do 
professional development and at 

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the end of the week, we had our 
session and she said, you know, 

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I was in your workshop and I 
took the, you know, some of the 

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ideas that you shared and I went
to my manager and I told my 

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manager hey I had signed up for 
this class. 

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Here's how it relates to work. 
What do you think? 

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You know, Can you can I get 
reimbursed for this? 

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And she said, her manager sent 
her a very enthusiastic email 

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saying, yes. 
And this made me so happy 

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because I think, you know, a lot
of times we assume that there's 

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just no money for professional 
development. 

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If it's not already in the plan,
we assume it's just not 

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available or we hold back and 
don't ask because we think it 

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might make us look bad. 
Like, we're not being grateful 

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for what we have. 
Have or maybe we're somehow not 

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as good at something as we 
should be. 

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And that's why we're learning 
rather than thinking of it, from

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the perspective of you are 
taking initiative, you are 

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actively engaged in your own 
growth and career development. 

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And this benefits, your 
organization and it benefits, 

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your manager that you are 
actually doing this that you've 

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taken this on and what I love 
about my My clients story to was

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that she had already committed 
to taking this class. 

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It's something that she wanted 
to do for herself. 

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So she signed up for it, she 
paid for it out of pocket. 

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And then she went back to her 
manager and asked, you know, 

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what do you think about 
reimbursing me for this at her 

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manager was a warm? 
Yes. 

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And so sometimes we think, oh, 
you know, I've already paid for 

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this, you know, for this class 
or this Workshop or I've already

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paid for coaching so it's 
probably too late and The truth 

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is it's not because you don't 
know until you ask your manager 

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might be delighted to say yes to
your request but first you have 

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to ask and what's really neat to
is. 

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There are so many moments to 
practice this skill of speaking 

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up professional development and 
asking for your company to 

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sponsor, your learning and 
growth is just one place. 

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But I also have coached my 
clients on how to use this same 

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framework to ask for other 
things like to ask for meetings 

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to be changed or to ask. 
Oh, you know, do I need to 

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attend this weekly meeting. 
I'm not sure that it's the best 

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use of our time right now. 
Maybe, I don't need to do that, 

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or to ask about, can we 
restructure the way that we're 

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working together in this way? 
And here's why and You know, we 

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sometimes assume that the people
who are managing us have all the

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answers and they thought really 
deeply about everything but it's

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not true and the reason you know
that is because you too are a 

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human and there are people that 
you work with and if you are a 

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manager then you probably have 
people that are looking to you 

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and they're thinking, oh, you 
must have everything all figured

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out you must know exactly what 
you're doing. 

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You've got you've really thought
this through And we know that's 

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not always true. 
And I know from myself to you, 

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when I was a manager, I had so 
many people on my team. 

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I didn't really have time to 
think deeply about each, 

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person's professional 
development plan and so it 

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really helped me out if someone 
came to me and said, hey Kim, 

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here's something that I want to 
do. 

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Is it in the budget or can it be
reimbursed? 

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Or what do you think about that?
It actually was a conversation 

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that I welcomed. 
Because it meant then that they 

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were taking responsibility for 
that part of their own career. 

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And then we could have a very, 
just like a better conversation 

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about it, rather than feeling 
like I had to do the heavy lift 

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there. 
So I just want to celebrate my 

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client Meghan and I want to 
share a little bit of that story

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with you in the hopes that it 
will give you perhaps a little 

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idea about something you might 
want to ask. 

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Ask for to speak up for yourself
for and I keep thinking about 

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how I want to share the 
teachings from the workshop with

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you. 
It might be in an episode, it 

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might be in a video. 
I'm still putting that all 

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together but it is one of the 
things I love to teach and 

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support my clients with because 
there are so many practical 

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applications and it really just 
makes my heart feel so happy 

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when I see my And it's growing 
in their ability to raise their 

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hand and say, hey, here's 
something. 

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I want to ask for and then see 
what comes from that. 

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So that's where we're starting 
today and then, because we're 

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moving into the end of the year.
We're now in Q4 of the year, 

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it's now October, I wanted to 
offer you. 

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A perspective that I think is 
very interesting. 

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It came up in a coaching 
conversation. 

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And that I was having recently, 
and actually, it's kind of been 

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a couple of spots with some of 
my clients and the big theme is 

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the question of what will people
think. 

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And if you are a perfectionist, 
you probably think that a lot, 

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because you're wanting to hold 
yourself to a perfect standard, 

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very self judgy, and because we 
judge ourselves, we often 

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believe or expect other people 
to judge us too. 

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And so there's You know, the 
question of what will people 

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think. 
But also, if you're a person who

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is very high empathy and has a 
tendency to people, please, 

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meaning you really are scanning 
for the emotional state of the 

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people around you and you really
want the emotions of the others 

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to be content and peaceful and 
happy. 

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And if they're not, then that 
feels very uncomfortable and it 

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feels like a problem that needs 
to be solved. 

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So that shows up with Empathy, 
it all shows up with any 

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patterns around people-pleasing.
So, we often think, like, what 

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will people think about me? 
Well, they think something bad. 

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Well, they misunderstand me, by 
the way, being misunderstood is 

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one of the most painful 
feelings. 

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So, you know, I offer a lot of 
appreciation if that's something

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that is familiar to you, but we 
want to pay attention when we're

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thinking, like, what will people
think about me? 

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Because number one we never 
actually know because we're not 

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inside their minds number two. 
We often think of the worst case

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scenario and when we're trying 
to make decisions about how we 

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are at work and how we 
communicate with others and 

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we're making that based on our 
vision of the worst case 

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scenario it gets in the way of 
our ability to communicate 

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clearly and effectively. 
And that's where we start to be 

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indirect. 
We To approach things sideways. 

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Or we we even hold back and we 
don't say something clearly 

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because we are hoping that the 
other person will read between 

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the lines that they will read 
our minds that we hope that they

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will understand it without us 
having to say it because we're 

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afraid that if I say it 
directly, they'll think 

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something bad about me. 
Like, they'll think I'm mean, or

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they'll think that I'm not 
Standing or they'll, you know, 

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what will they think about me? 
One of the other things, some of

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my clients will say to is 
they'll say, oh I don't want 

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people to think I'm just a 
Workhorse. 

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I don't want them to see me as 
oh, there's such a hard worker. 

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They want to be recognized for 
having great ideas for really 

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adding value through the way 
that they support other people 

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write not just like, oh, such a 
hard worker, but really being 

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recognized for all of the 
qualities, all of the 

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perspectives, Active and insight
that they add that adds value to

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the team and to the success of 
the team. 

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So because we're kind of coming 
to the end of the year and that 

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for a lot of us means some kind 
of performance review cycle 

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either. 
This might be your mid year 

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cycle or this might be your end 
of your performance review. 

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A question I wanted to offer you
when especially when you get 

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stuck in that Loop of what will 
people think about me? 

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Because that can Come very 
exhausting and amplify all of 

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our anxiety and insecurity but 
instead it's like imagine that's

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a question and you're just going
to set that question down on the

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table and then turn like 90 
degrees and you're going to pick

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up a different question and this
is the question that asks, what 

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do you want people to think of 
you? 

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So you can imagine if you are 
doing a 360 and if you haven't 

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I'm done a 360 review, 
basically, it means that you get

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feedback from 360 Degrees from 
people that work with you all 

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around. 
So people that work above, you 

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people that are cross-functional
like lateral peers people that 

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report up to you. 
It is trying to get a, you know,

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a bigger picture of what do your
colleagues and co-workers have 

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to say about their Periods of 
working with you in the best of 

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circumstances. 
It's really a valuable tool for 

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seeing your blind spots. 
And that includes the strengths.

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You have that, maybe you don't 
fully appreciate and recognize 

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on the other end of the 
spectrum. 360, is can really 

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fuel insecurity and pettiness. 
Especially, you know, if you 

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have a team of three people, for
example, and you do a 360 and 

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you Get the feedback from your 
team, you're going to be 

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thinking, oh, who's the person 
that said, this, you know, piece

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of feedback that was unkind or 
inaccurate or that they're 

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unhappy with me, like we wonder 
like who said that about me and 

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did you know what is that about?
And so the anonymity of the 360 

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can sometimes create some unrest
and even be a little bit 

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disruptive to trust. 
So we just want to be mindful of

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that. 
But as a, as a reflection, Shin 

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exercise. 
I love this idea because if you 

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pause for a moment and you think
what do you want people to think

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of you, if you are doing a 360 
at work, what is your hope? 

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What is your desire? 
That people will see? 

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And say about you? 
And here are some things that 

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some of my clients have said, 
when we explore this question, 

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they've said, I want people to 
think I'm really good at what I 

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do. 
I want them to see me as smart, 

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someone who really knows her 
stuff. 

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I've is interesting. 
I've had multiple clients, use 

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this specific phrase. 
They've said I want to be seen 

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as a velvet hammer. 
Like they want to be seen as 

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being, you know. 
Warm and kind, but also really 

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firm and someone who stands 
there, ground, someone who is 

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respected and is it a pushover? 
I've had someone say all I want 

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to be seen as someone who's 
really tough, but fair, I want 

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to be seen as somebody 
trustworthy and reliable. 

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I want to be seen as someone who
is generous and kind and who 

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holds the team to a high 
standard. 

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I want to be seen as someone who
really cares and kind of goes 

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the extra mile to really support
our people. 

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Like it can be any combination 
of those or anything but when 

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you take time and you think 
about how do I want to be 

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perceived like what is it that I
am hoping people see and 

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appreciate and value and 
recognize about me that gives us

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some really great information 
about what Matters to you and 

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then that gets us oriented in 
the direction of. 

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Okay, so if if that is to become
true then let's start making 

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decisions that align with that 
desired outcome and that desired

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goal, rather than kind of 
playing it safe and small and 

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trying to reduce the perceived 
negative things. 

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Instead we're looking at, what 
are the qualities? 

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And the characteristics about 
you that we want to amplify and 

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really bring to the Forefront 
like how do we do that? 

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So if you're going to be a 
velvet hammer, then what will be

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required of you? 
How will you live into that? 

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And so it's a really fun 
exercise, to reflect upon and to

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kind of think about how will I 
need to change. 

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What will I need to start doing?
What will I need to stop doing? 

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What will I need to learn to do 
with greater consistency or 

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visibility? 
Or you know, what would a person

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who is like that, like, how 
would they show up and 

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communicate? 
And contribute to the 

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conversations. 
Like, we really start to 

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understand more about what is 
your growth path look, like. 

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And it's wonderful when we think
about this too, because if we 

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remember, you know, everyone 
that you work with and actually 

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even more broadly, everyone 
that, you know, Mostly, they're 

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not thinking about you mostly, 
they're thinking about 

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themselves. 
Because let's face it, we're all

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kind of obsessed with ourselves,
and this is not a bad thing, 

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necessarily it really is just, 
you know, there's so much going 

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on and everyone is trying to do 
a good job and everyone is a 

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little bit worried about what 
people, what will people think. 

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And so when we remember, you 
know, other people are forgetful

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They are distracted. 
They are kind of obsessed with 

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what's happening in their own 
life and then you remember for 

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yourself, oh right. 
It might not be obvious to them.

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If I haven't made it visible 
that I really know my stuff or 

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it might not be obvious that 
just because I'm kind that 

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doesn't mean I'm also. 
How do I say this? 

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Just because I'm kind it doesn't
mean that I'm a pushover. 

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I can still have Have really 
clear boundaries and I can 

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assert them from a place of 
confidence and feeling 

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connected. 
And, you know, not not going 

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into battle but actually just 
being really clear and direct 

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about like this is what's 
happening now or this is my 

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boundary. 
Like let's establish that and 

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let's move on it, really begins 
to change the way that we think.

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And this makes us both more 
strategic, more intentional and 

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it shifts us out of the house. 
It's that we've been before we 

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were managers and sometimes just
that awareness that mindset of, 

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oh, this is how I want to be 
perceived. 

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So this is how I will show up. 
Can be the smallest change and 

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create such a big difference 
because the other benefit to 

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that, is that, you know, that 
you are showing up as that 

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version of of yourself, not the 
version of yourself. 

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That is really uncertain and 
hesitant and you know, like bed 

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is defaulting into the 
people-pleasing or the 

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perfectionism. 
Like, if you get caught in that 

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pattern pausing to look at 
yourself through this lens of 

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How do I want to be seen? 
What do I want people to know 

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about me? 
And there's a distinction to 

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that. 
I want to make. 

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This isn't about fake, it til 
you make it. 

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And this isn't about putting on 
a mask. 

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This is about your growth and 
how you see yourself, first and 

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foremost, and as we stabilize 
that and starts to feel more 

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comfortable, more familiar to 
you, you begin to live it, in a 

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bigger and more clear. 
Way. 

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So it's a really fun thing to 
consider, especially as we're 

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approaching Q4 and of year and 
you might be receiving feedback 

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and you might be thinking about.
Gosh I wonder how you know, 

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people have perceived me and my 
work and what is it that's 

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coming across. 
So I would like to recommend to 

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you to take some time. 
Do a little reflection perhaps 

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do a little journaling 
especially if you're thinking 

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about what is coming. 
Coming up next for you in the 

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coming year and what are the 
skills that you want to develop 

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and how do you want to continue 
to grow as a person? 

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So that is what I wanted to 
share with you today. 

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If this resonates with you and 
you want to do this work and 

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implement it in a more study 
supported systemic way, then 

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that is what we can do in 
coaching. 

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I work with my clients. 
For six months and we meet every

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week so that it's not just 
understanding the concept, 

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right? 
Like you're intelligent and 

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you're listening and you're like
getting this already so we go 

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beyond understanding the concept
to now. 

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What does it look like for you 
specifically and in your life 

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and in your workplace, 
specifically, what does that 

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look like to implement and put 
these These Concepts into 

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practice the habits that we've 
developed. 

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They have helped us get here, 
but the skills and the new ways 

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of thinking and communicating 
and engaging all of that, as 

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we're developing New Paths, we 
often benefit from steady 

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support so that we can continue 
to implement Grow and let that 

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change become sustainable. 
So that's the part that I love. 

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I love helping my clients to 
take the concept and really make

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it their own and begin to 
implement it. 

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Without any of the shoulds, this
should sound like, oh, I know I 

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should speak up, or oh, I know I
should say something or all. 

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I know I should do this, but, 
you know, we don't need, that 

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doesn't actually help. 
So, we're going to get out of 

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the sheds and we're going to get
into Presents curiosity and 

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kindness to help support you in 
implementing the concepts to 

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your specific life work and 
situation. 

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You can go into the show notes, 
you will find a link to my 

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calendar where you can schedule 
a consultation and we will talk 

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about all of this. 
So thank you so much for 

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listening and I will see you 
next time. 

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Hey, Before you go, if you like 
this podcast, leave a review. 

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Tell me why you listen and what 
has helped you? 

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00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,900
Thanks so much. 
I'll see you next time.

