Welcome back to Line by Golf, the podcast made from the
connects refine through a great game of golf.
I'm your host, Josh McGuire, and today I'm joined by one of the
most respected golf coaches Scotland has ever produced, Ian
Ray. From carrying video equipment
around in the back of a Range Rover and early days of golf
technology, to coaching some of the country's greatest amateur
and professional players, Ian has spent decades at the heart
of Scottish golf. It's a brilliant conversation
about coaching, player development, elite performance
and evolution of Scottish golf over the last 50 years.
Let's go over to Ian. Ian Ray, thanks for joining.
Great to have you with us. No, it's lovely to be here.
Well, be at home and be on the on the machine.
Absolutely. And Ian, I'm going to start with
a quick one. Technology has changed a lot in
golf and you know, used to like your Porsche's, but you had to
get out of the Porsche times to get a Range Rover so you can go
with their cotton in their bike. How do you feel about that these
days when you can drive an on a phone?
And some it's amazing when I think what I bought in the
probably 94, it was bloody humongous and had to lift that
and the bike, the Range Rover every day and had a big battery
unit that had three big batteries in it and an invalter
to try and power it for the day. So that's.
That's makes use for a bad but. Master tripod and everything as
well to go with you know if that going to.
Yeah, yeah, we had the unit was it came in a big kind of flight
case thing and I had one of these TV video record video
players in it. And then I had the computer, one
of the first computers and it was all enclosed and on the
outside was like sockets and things that you plug the the the
cable in for the cameras, the microphone and stuff like that.
And then we used to film outside.
And then I had a way of filming where I could, I would film it
and, you know, so much time before the swing, so much time
after it, so I could just let the camera run when I was
clicking on the machine. Yeah, we used tripods and
cameras and, and it was, it was amazing the amount of cameras
that we used to go through because they wasn't built for
what we were using them, you know, like, so we, I would go
into Glasgow is like a place in a Great Western road, Glasgow, a
video saying that of what it's called.
And I used to use these Panasonic cameras because they
had very manual features on them, right?
So you could change your shot of speech, the light balance,
etcetera, etcetera. But they were used that they
used to fall in them on the, and the puddles.
You know, they used to get so so and the heads of them used to
get warden so quickly. So I'd go in and ask the guy
right, I need a Panasonic camera, what have you got?
And he would show me them and I would go through.
I would check them all to see what all the features that I
needed and had millions of features that I never used.
And I used to see the guy right there.
Great. How much are they right?
I'll take four. I used to buy like 4A time
because and he would look at me like I had two heads for, you
know, so you would basically you would just use them and and they
would, as I say, they would break, you know, within about
four months, you know, you're just basically a little bit in a
bit, but that was that was technology at that time.
You know, yeah, absolutely. And almost, you know, you're
quite an early part of your career.
But how did you get that game, Ian?
Who was? So they got Yankov in the early
days. But I came from the northeast on
Huntley and it was a it was a lovely little town and it had
every sport that you wanted to, to play for a town of 4000
people. You know, there was an Ave. with
the school and there was a cricket ground, there was a
swimming pool, there was the golf course was football
pitches, tennis, you name it, you could play it.
And back in the early 70s, you would, you know, you didn't have
all the technology that you've got now.
So you were always outside doing stuff.
Have you were sporty at all? So I was in there, you know, I
went through all the sports. So I would, I would be in the
football team, the swimming team, the, the table tennis
team, you know, you name it. And then golf.
I just got hooked into golf. My dad played golf.
And by the time I was 12, I was probably, I probably started
about 11. And then when I get in, there's
something I get totally into it. So that was me.
I was absolutely hooked. So I used to sneak over at
lunchtime and I went obtain because it was just across the
road and sometimes I would forget to go back to school
depending on what the periods were in the afternoon.
So sometimes I would forget, you know, and then after a few
weeks, again a wee bit of trouble.
So I'd calm down a wee bit and then go again.
So that's how I got in a golf. It was, it was awesome up there.
If I was up there a couple of weeks ago and they gave me an
ordinary membership there and I haven't been a member there for
50 years. So I was absolutely delighted
and it was great. I, I used to go and see my
parents and my brother on his way still over there.
So it was good to, you know, I had to been up for maybe about a
year or two. So it was good to go out and see
some of the old faces and go to the Golf Club and it was, it's a
phenomenal place, you know. And what was it?
It took you into being a protein So you must obviously progressed
your game. What was that like in your
teenage years and and what was the job they like for you?
It was, I suppose, different to what I say within on that.
So we used to used to get a magazine called The Goals
Illustrated every week and I and that was the key and everybody
put the jobs and not. So I decided that I like golf
that much. I thought, yeah, I really want
to become a pro and, you know, start off as an assistant.
So I looked at I looked at that with my dad and a job came up in
Leeds and I've never even been outside Scotland at this point.
My dad says why don't you apply for that?
And I thought, Oh my God, he's desperate to get rid of me.
So I did apply. I didn't get the job, but a job
came up at Lanark and then I went down there, had an
interview and stuff and I got the job.
So started there in May 76, so pretty much 50 years to in fact
50 years. Yesterday it was the 21st of
May, if memories helped me, so 50 years.
Yesterday I stopped at a Lanook so and I kind of I really
enjoyed it. A great job working for a guy
called Ron Wallace, who I'm still friendly.
We know he's still on the go and he was tremendous and a, you
know, he cannot he he taught me a lot and as I say, once again,
it's something so I become kind of quite obsessive, you know,
about golf and all. All I wanted to do is be a good
player and play tournament golf and I tried for three or four
heels and once I'd spent my money, other people's money, it
became a part that maybe I'm not going to make a live for this,
but it wasn't through the one that trying and.
What? What a great course to be a an
assistant as well. Lanox tremendous, isn't it?
Brilliant golf course. How good is it?
It's a great Heathline course. It would.
I would say it would be the best in Lanarkshire.
It was. It's short now can you know it
was? It's a bit 6465 somewhere over
there, but by, you know, 50 years ago that was a that was
quite long. Yeah, you know, with it, with
the old cat. In fact, even if you get on the
15th hole now, if you're in a wee bit a breeze, it's it's a
face the old go for, you know. Yes, aye, tremendous.
A great, great experience. And they always said they open
our assembly. I was going to say in my my
teenage years, and maybe I'll be about beyond that, they always
had open qualifying there and remember playing like you always
wanted the team game. It'd be the week of the open
qualifying on the Wednesday. I think just on that Monday for
regional qualifying, you go up and the greens would be
absolutely lightning. It was unbelievable playing
there. Oh, I know.
They were always fast. You go on that first green, you
know, it's sloping quite a bit back to front.
You know, if you go up above the hole, you were like, Oh my God,
this is this is going to be a problem.
And then it was great. It was a great what I'm
bringing. How did you then transition from
Lanark over to was a Holland Bush Was your next course that
you worked out as a professional?
No, actually did I? Just over a year at Shorts,
Yeah. So what happened was I had, I
was still playing kind of full time and there was a lot of
stuff that you could play in in Scotland and things, but I
hadn't decided what I was, where I was going.
I'd been at your school. I missed that.
I missed the two school by short and I came back and I'd been
away for six or seven months travelling around Europe playing
and I was now in Kenya. I don't know what I'm going to
do, but we're still practicing hard, training hard and still
unsure. And shorts had got a, there was
a, they were needing a probe. So Ron, who I worked for, he was
going to help them just stop the shop and stuff for a wee while.
And he said to me, why don't you go over there on a Saturday and
a Sunday and do that for me? And I said, yeah, I can do that.
But before we even go to that, I was over doing stuff.
And they're basically, I met with a couple of the members and
they said, well, why don't you just take over the job?
So I went over there doing, I was going to be doing some part
time stuff. And I've came home and I
thought, I think I've just got myself a job.
So I did just over a year there, which was an ex, another life
experience. And then I moved from there to
Holland Bush in 85. I'm going to see probably
February 85. Yeah, from from memory I think
it was and I stayed there until the end of 99.
Wow. And you've been young as a
professional then doing that, taking over the shorts and then
taking over Holland Bush. I'd be quite young compared to a
lot of the guys. I would have probably been like
maybe 24 when I was at shorts. Yeah, and.
Then 25. I just think I just not long
term 25 when I was at Holland Bush.
Wow. And then Holland Bush, what a
great golf course that is for the community there and
thankfully been rescued recently.
So what's your memories of Hall and Bush and some of the great
amateurs they had coming out of there as well at that time with
a really good. Well, you'd you would probably
remember there was a lot of good team playoffs there.
It was all I would. I don't know what it is now as
and how the team thing goes, but the the team thing there was
great. I mean, I used to go on a
Wednesday night, you know, if they were playing at Hamilton or
East School Braid, I would regularly go with the games, you
know, and because of the work, great atmosphere, great matches,
10 man teams. And I think we I think we would
have probably won at some point. I think maybe I'm going to say
maybe Hamilton, East Kilbride were the two top teams.
Maybe at that point, maybe Drumpy would have been good as
well. But Holland Bush is a great,
good team at that point. Look, a lot of good juniors
coming up and through and it's I still see some of the some of
the guys who you know, I haven't seen for years.
And then all of a sudden I got a call and I'm catching up with
somebody that, you know, played as a junior hall ambush.
You know, that's, that's good. It was, it was like it was a
good place. It was they were pretty keen for
juniors. We did a lot of junior coaching
through the schools and stuff and and with a lot, a lot of
good players there, it was good. Yeah.
And then I mean that was out when you really transitioned
fully into coaching as well from playing more in the past and and
really get into the coaching full time.
Yeah, I was still playing a lot, you know, and I was, you know,
top 2 was pretty big at that point.
So I was I was still playing with a lot of good tournament.
So that was still my primary kind of focus.
Obviously it was a club pro, which was you were busy with
that, but I would play as much as I could and I wasn't doing a
lot of coaching at the start. And I ended up I was working on,
I started working on my game with Dennis Pugh and David
Ledbet at the time, which was that was about ET eat.
So we went and it was myself and Ken Campbell from Makahanish
went down and we caught well, Ledbetter once, I think once or
twice. And Dennis Pugh was based in
South. So I was going down there once a
month to work on my game for the primary reason of playing
better, right. But I really enjoyed my time
with Dennis and staff and it was a very educational and he was
help, you know, I spent a lot of time well, I would do, I would
sometimes he would invite me along to do help on my different
things. And he kind of encouraged me to,
you know, do more coaching and stuff.
So I was kind of gaining experience and knowledge from
him. And then I started to, you know,
he advised me to go and look at other people, you know, so I
would go to the States and things.
And again, once again, there's something I'm kind of hooked in
and I, I started a, you know, coaching a lot more and, and
really enjoying it. And as I say, try trying to do
the best job that I possibly could.
Wow. And so when did they become full
time coach? And then through that period,
was it almost like? I was coaching the Hall and wish
a law by probably by about 9293. It was pretty busy though.
We've got a great practice facility up at Hall and Bush.
As you'll remember, it was kept in really good condition.
The greens were good. So it was an ideal sport and
that's really, you know, the Range Rover and all that.
The cat would come in and so because it was rained the other
side. But you know, I think I didn't,
I don't know. It just kind of developed if you
like, I'm not going to say there was a plan there.
I didn't I didn't feel I sat down and went right, this is
what I'm going to do. It just kind of manifested and
being pretty busy, you know, so I was kind of doing, I must have
been doing quite a good job. There was a lot of people coming
and quite a lot of really good players.
I was coaching a few pros at that time as well.
So that kind of I just kind of built up a as it can away, you
know. And then you became the Scottish
national coach. So again, was that just like a
progression of having more and more players and then get
involved with, well, you're already coaching pros, but even
the elite amateurs as well. Was that how the transition went
to become the national coach? Yeah.
Well, what happened was a Bob Toms was the national coach up
until, I'm going to say maybe the end of 93 and they applied
for a coach. It must have been, must have
been in the 93, starting 94, can't quite remember.
And I applied for that. And because I was coaching a lot
of good players, I was, I was thinking, well, that would be
the ideal choice for that. But I didn't get that job right.
And they start in 84. Billy Locky got the job.
And that was the base thing that happened to me because he he put
up a good structure in place and he looked outside.
I wasn't looking outside. I was only looking at swing
stuff. And so he brought in like psych
psychologists, strength conditioning coaches, etcetera.
So I was fortunate that he employed me as I can secondary
national coach. I was doing about 6 the EE days
a year and I was looking after the kind of main squad and stuff
because I already coached a couple of them anyway.
So it gave me a great opportunity to lay on the job
right. So I think if I had got the job
in 94, I don't see me doing a good job at it.
I don't think I would have done a good job.
I think I would have been poor at it.
But I ended up getting about five years Cana working and
learning at the same time and getting introduced to people
around the world, right, who are experts in the field.
And that kind of opened up things for me.
So to understand, right, it's not just a swing thing here.
Those are a lot more things. So that was that was a blessing
than this guy is really, you know, if you took to me at the
start, then you get the job. I went, I'm I know you didn't
get the job. You know, I should have got that
job. And then once I'd kind of got
involved in it, I thought, God, I was lucky there.
I've done. I've done a right good time
here. Thanks for listening to Linked
by Golf. I also Co host a new podcast
with Colin Gray called Both Sides of Par.
Every episode explores the different sides of the game,
from drowsing practice habits to core strategy, mindset,
equipment, and idealities golfers face at every handicap
level. If you enjoy the conversations
here, I think you'll really love this one too.
Follow Both Sides of Par now on your favorite podcast platform
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Just search for Both Sides of Par or go to bothpar.com.
Now let's get back to the pod and I remember Ian, one of the
lessons that I went for with I think it was Lanarkshire
coaching. It must have been the youth team
or maybe just Gents team, I can't remember.
But we went up to Drummoyk and you were leading that and I
remember we we had hardly any balls.
We actually sat in a room for quite a good talk through
psychology stuff. Then you took us out in the
course you didn't take. I think we warmed up or
something. Maybe I had a few balls just to
get warmed up and you took us out.
Is that a three hole corset Drummoygar?
Six holes or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, it was. It's changed now.
I'm going to say it was it, was it 5 or six holes?
Or something, right? Yeah.
You took us out and you didn't talk a bit technique at all.
You focused on what was our targets?
How are we assessing the whole for sure it's into the greens
and you're just laughing. That was, I mean, you'd be
asking us all questions and we're currently the stupid
answers like how far is it to the pan?
Of course somebody's like, oh, it's that far.
And you're like, yeah, that is that far.
If you thought of anything else. No, really.
And then you're like, well. Then isn't it?
Yeah, look, you're listening. Oh, look at the bunkers.
Where are they? And we're like at the front, OK,
what you're going to do. But the pan, we also placed a
mass and honestly, it was brilliant.
It was so different to I guess what most people would have had
as a coaching session at that time.
So that was really good having that, that different
perspective. And it sounds like that was
something that you grew with as well.
And you got those perspectives coming in as you went along.
Again, you you learn as a when I started off, I was my when I was
at Hall and Bush, you know, coaching a lot.
I was physically hands on coaching and, you know, working
on players games, nothing to do with the performance side over.
And that's what I mean about me getting in and an opportunity to
learn that that part of it right.
So when we so then when we when all the counties would come up
to Drummoy get that team. That was probably 2000 to 2002,
maybe right. Then if you, if you personally
have a coach, well, brilliant. You keep going with that, right?
And then, but we'll add on all the things that maybe you, the
coaches don't have time for. So there's a if you, if you book
on an off session with a coach, how, how much time if you really
go to to try and cover off everything very little.
So you're, you're, you're saying on that session, maybe right, my
game, I'm not hitting it very well.
I need to get that. And that's taken an hour.
So you, the coach doesn't have enough time to to look at the
performance side. So when we were setting up those
days, we're looking right. It's about performance as
opposed to, you know, just swing stuff.
Yeah, no, just. There's a team in a plate for
everything, isn't it? Not that I retained all of of
course, especially in her own straight.
But then you touched on it there and you're talking about all
these elite players and you've obviously got the pros that
you're coaching as well. But what was it like being
without Scotland environment for so many years?
I mean, I see I'm looking through my notes here and you've
got 6 European team factories with the squad.
So what were what are some of the memories that stand out from
those? Yeah, well, my first European
team was 95. We won over in Belgium and what
a team we had because we're Sherry Gallagher, Rankin Howard,
Hugh McKibben and Alan Reid. Wow.
So whether an awesome team, we won the stroke play.
So you play 2 range, stroke play, 5 scores counting on 6.
I think we won the stroke play by 15 or 17 shorts or something
like we were discarding 60 nines, you know, 3 unders.
And then we went into the match play and we we played against
Wales, who? So 1 plays eight.
Yeah, Wales were eight. We were one and the nearly beat
us like I I'd resigned them to the fight that we were beat.
Why? So they they were 30 odd shorts
behind us and Gallagher and Sherry.
I think we're both one down with two to play and they won the
last two holes each and that was for us to get through.
Wow, so. It was late.
I remember I was chatting to one of the the Welsh guys as we're
walking around and I mean, they'll say we're in about 17.
That's well, this is done. You know, we've we've went from
having this fun, phenomenal team and we've been, we've been put
for fried. Fortunately we came through
that. We beat France the next day and
he would beat England in the final I think.
So it was 2 foursome, 5 singles. I think it was 6-1 or six and a
half 1/2. My goodness.
So, and they had some, some really good, good players on
that year as well. And the funny story it was, it
was a Antriot gold, Royal Antriot and it was boiling.
It was like 100° every day. They were trying to to cope with
that. So there was like fridges bring
the course, but trying to get enough water was quite a
difficult job. So on the Sunday the I was
hovering about the the first tee early on to see the guy put in
all the water into the fridge, right, The big kind of chase
freezer take time. So he put it all in and as soon
as we were in the corner, I left it on to call out.
So I'm carrying these big crates of water into the locker room.
OK, they're a big locker room and I'm putting them all into
the locker, right, Because I thought I need to look after,
you know, because I can't remember how many bottles of
water. But if you've got four guys out
there, right, you know, you were probably needing, you know, it
was probably in the region of 40 bottles in the morning, you
know, so I'm hunting all these. Hello.
So when when we got any of the first tee I've I've got, I'm
trying to think somebody else were me there and I've got a
backpack on full of water and and we're stuffing and the golf
bags and the so we got into the first tee and all English guys
are lifting up the freeze or nothing in it.
It's like wheels, all the water, you know, and of course we've
got we've got more. Well, did you get that?
Oh, got it in a clubhouse. That's just sounded like a
Southampton incident. Yeah, it's a.
Little bit, isn't it? But we would have beat them
anyway. So in the past now it's fine
they. Did get, they did get water, but
I think, I think it was ended up it was sparkling water they
ended up getting. And it absolutely sparkled in
the game enemy, so that was. Great.
It's sparkled in the game, you know.
So that was my first 195. And then there was a few. 2001
was a strong year as well because Warman O'Hara, they
played in the Walker Cup. Craig Heat was in that team.
He was an excellent player. McKenzie, Simon McKenzie else
was in that team. Craig Watson was in that team.
And for the like, oh, Buddy Hume, wow, I know.
So again, they, they we played England in the semi finals and
they've got like I think Luke, Dorothy, Nick door, Luke, Luke
Donald, Nick, Dorothy Wilson home.
I can't remember who else, but there are 8 good team and well,
we're two nil down in the morning.
So things we needed four singles and we won four of the singles
and they all won three and two. Wow.
And Luke Donald beat Barry Hume just on the last, but that was a
great game because there must have been body would have been
sex on that, I think. And he lost in the last.
And then we played Ireland in the after the SA and the last
day in the final. But again, that was like Michael
Hui McDowell was in that team trying to remember who else but
it would beat them. We're comfortable to beat them
well two nil in the morning and I think I think they won.
It was probably been a 6th 1 again, I think, but a fun funny
incident there. Ohara played Norfolk, so that
was the first game out Fox. He was a good player.
Ohara was 8 up after 8. So I I mean harder played.
He was playing in 2000 and 2001. He was a best amateur kicking
about. He played awesome 8 up after 8
and I was a short Part 3 and then then you turn back.
So I was across. I was kind of trying to watch
from a wee bit a distance at that point, but I didn't know
what had happened on the on the 9th right.
And in Fox he lost his T-shirt on 10.
So it's looking a bit for the ball.
Can't find it. So I'm assuming that it's either
been 1/2, right? Because he went over to heart
and shook his hand, right. So I thought, Oh my God, that's
a 10 and E or a nine and E, right.
And then Steve, Steve, he said after a second doctor, he went,
wait a minute. No, no, I'm only 8 up.
We're eight to play. I'm not 9 up because Fox, it
wasn't a hole. And Fox went, oh shit.
Yeah. So yeah.
So they went to the Tennessee and a hardest.
That's that. Oh yeah.
I'd have been 11th senior and hardest Left it to Part 3 and
Fox News. Like God, I mean, you've made me
walk all the way up here. And it's amazing you're talking
about Stephen there, Ian. And I've played at Corville Park
and like I've said this to people recently and it's only
when you get older you reflect and things sometimes.
And it wasn't that you'd be judging yourself against Stephen
Beebe, looking at your own game and saying, where am I?
And, and Stephen was an amazing inspiration for our entire club.
Like the handicaps shot down our club just about the inspiration.
You're watching on and you're coming away like, Oh no, very
good at golf. And then the reflection hurts
you later on. You're like, actually, Stevie
was probably one of the top amateurs in the world at the
time and he was absolutely phenomenal.
To his, his right, he won the Scottish boys and the British
boys in the same year. I'm going to say that was 9 to
8. Yeah.
And then he played and in the next year it was all men's
events And, and back in those days, the Order of Merit points
only went down a 10th, right, Right.
So he finished 11th, right. Like quite a number of weeks,
right, But he was the IT was his first year in full mains and
then he he got to the, I'm going to say the semi finals at a
quarterfinals of Scotch men's and then finished third
somewhere else. And but he played in the men's
homes. But the marker has his kind of
desire was he was really disappointed any season and but
he he worked so hard. The amount of balls he helped a
hole in between me like was unbelievable.
It was just relentless. It was twice a week and and then
in 2000 he he just went through the roof.
He played in the GB and I team. So he was out a performing at
Latham's brothers and all these things.
So he made the the GB and I team against Europe.
Can't remember the name of that team name the Banalic trophy,
right? It's the Banalic trophy.
OK, Anyway, so he played in that and then he got picked for the
Eisenhower. That's right.
GB and I, that was the last GB and I won, and that was Luke,
Donald and Paul. Was it Paul Casey?
I think it was Maybe Luke. Was it Luke, Donald and Casey
and Jamie Donaldson and Stevie? Well.
So some team they end up finishing seconds and in the
next year 2001 when he played the Walker Cup, my God, I think
he was in the last group and just about every tournament he
played and going into the Sunday, he was lately at the
amount of tournaments he led gun into the Sunday after three
rounds was phenomenal. You know, and he and he won some
of them obviously, but he didn't win them all.
But I, he would probably have been, if not the best that year,
he'd have been very close to it. So to have that have that type
of player coming out of Scotland, nevermind Coldwell
Park, was quite amazing. Yeah, and I remember when he
joined, he was, I think he was 14.
He was playing off maybe 7 or something.
He quickly got his handicapped down, but it was the ball
striking like the ball striking eventually in and I can remember
certain holes like the six that corvals is maybe 310 or
something three O 5 and Stevie in 2001 Ish was flying all night
green. Easy he was.
Unbelievable. He was one of the best that I'd
worked with. I worked with Stevie for a lot
of years and if you asked them to hit a short, he could tell
you how he was going to have it and then actually produce it.
He was very he was very knowledgeable.
You know, he loved the kind of knowledge of the game.
And then he would say, yeah, I'm going to do this, this and this
and then away he went and you could ask him that.
No problem with absolutely phenomenal.
One of the but one of the best players that I've seen really.
And unfortunately people you know, maybe, you know a young
lad at the moment who's maybe 18 or 20s, never, we'd never have
seen him or held with him, you know which.
Yeah, I mean, you get some amazing other player.
I mean, lots of other players that you've coached, like
Ritchie Ramsey, he coached time when he won the US Amateur and I
mean, what a victory that was. Yeah, I mean Richie, when I
worked with Riches, I've worked with Richie since 99 or
something. So he was in the boys team, went
America college, lasted a year, didn't like it right and came by
his game was really, really poor, right.
So but his determination and application is very, very much
like Stevie's right. And he walked away right over
the next few years, getting his game a in great shape.
And in 2004 he won a few won the Scorch man's he won going to see
another couple of all that Amira events in Scotland.
And he took we sat down with his pimps and stuff and he took the
next semester off at uni. He was at still in uni.
He wanted a degree. So he still had two semesters to
do in 2005 so that the the kind of January through told me and
in the September through to December he still had them to
do. So he was he said, right, I want
to focus on the Walker Cup in 2005.
I want so I want to play in practice as much as I can.
So he took the semester off. He won, I think he won Ireland
if he won somewhere else and you know by by the score as she
finished second in the Scottish. I think it might have been Royal
Aberdeen actually, and I think that was him pretty much
guaranteed he was going to be in the Walker Cup.
So he did that, played in the homes and stuff a Europeans.
He would have played that year if that wasn't coming, it was on
that goal. But then he went back to uni the
following September, 30 September stent and then he did
his January through to me 2007. So again, that was the
agreement. He wanted a degree so he wanted
to make sure he covered everything off.
So he ended up said, right, he went to New Zealand to play with
GB and I, that was in the April. So that was a two week trip.
So he says I'm going to go with that.
I can study while I'm away, right, Because there's not too
much golf. I'll go, I'll go and do that.
I'll see New Zealand, but I'll deal with the studying.
But I'm not playing anything else.
And the first tournament he came back after his exams and stuff
was the Scottish at Craigie Law. And I think his first tournament
might he finished, maybe he finished top ten, right?
And that was his first event that year and he played the
lengths he played, the British etcetera, Europeans he played.
So he was going well. But back in that day, if you
were a Walker Cup player from the year before, you could get
straight into the US arm. Ah, right.
So yeah, you couldn't get in yet to qualify otherwise.
So him and Lloyd Saltman both played the year before.
So we they came to me and said, look, we want to go and play the
US arm and the scratch playoffs, which was the week before.
And I said, right, OK, I said, but I can't I can't go and do
that because we've got the I have with the European
individual the time, right? So I says I'm hot.
So I did a deal with all officials, Dad Ripple.
So all official went and Reese Davis went as well, right.
So all officials died a he he did the drive and he did that.
So we paid this the money and Rupert that all the Cana other
stuff on the ground. So I knew there would be a new
you'd be colored off and then I think was it Reese?
Maybe one of them did one of them when the scratch players or
was finished right up there the week before, which was a
high-ranking event and then obviously Richie when the US on
the next week. So it was a pretty successful
trip, but that was that was quite an amazing achievement.
I mean, that was that was quite phenomenal really.
You know, the first, you know, 100 noisy else to go and win
that. And there was nobody a who?
I'll tell you when Eddie Molinari won it the year before,
I think. Right, of course, because
Francesco cutted from the Masters, don't they?
But. Forgot he what?
He won it the year before. So it was, it was pretty cool,
you know, just to have some, some, I mean, he was #1 amateur
in the world at that point. So that that gave him a 2007,
which was quite phenomenal. Scottish Golf a would put
together a program forum. I went to Scottish Golf and I
said right, I need X amount to try and fulfill this program.
And we ended up getting sponsorship from Aberdeen Asset.
So the money came from on a in a roundabout way, the money came
from them. But he played, he played that
that year and obviously played loads of pro events, played all
the majors and any Tom crew after the open at community and.
He's still going to play well in the European Tour.
I mean, he's really, you see the determination, well, if he's
playing great, he's right on it. And if he's, you know, maybe
down the rankings, everybody is pushing really hard.
That's there's some career he's had.
This is his 19th year and if you're ever looking for somebody
that you would want to speak to or model yourself on as in how
they do stuff, Richard, be your guy.
You know, as, I mean, as are a lot the other scores, you know,
guys who have looked at the guys like Cohen of Simon stuff is
exactly the same. And you know, you've got Bob and
you and Grant, you know Grant, you know, Grant's very much like
that as well. And really, really professional
people. Yeah, union's the same.
And they, they, they can operate pally with Richie, right.
Like when, when I was away in Spain a couple of weeks ago, you
know, the guys were a, you know, everybody's up and down and at
night, you know, and they, they know the value of that because
he does things so well. He's not got the biggest game as
in, you know, he's brought up in an accuracy era, you know, as
yourself. So all of a sudden these guys
are hitting at males. But he has to manage his own
game. And so he, he works on his stuff
and tries to get the best out of it.
He knows that every place at a course that's 7500 and wide
open, you know, and if the bunkers are all at 300, well,
that's not going to. Be a tough week.
It's going to be a tough week guy because he would get a wee
bit frustrated by guys. You know, if he goes to like
Russell Kaimer or something like that, he would always sort of
start bitching about it. Oh, these guys are hitting all
over the place. And Michael's I go, well, you
know, you know that before you go.
So get used to it. Yeah, but.
And then you mentioned a huge change.
Absolutely. You mentioned Aberdeen Asset
Management there, and I have to bring up the Eisenhower Trophy.
So we've had Wallace Booth and Callum McCauley on before and
they've talked about that Eisenhower 1 and actually Callum
talked about the influence she had on him.
I think it was maybe the last day or perhaps the day before
the last day you'd gone for a walk in the beach I think with
Callum to to gum GD up. But I'd love you talk through
that victory for you, the Scottish team and and what it
was like that week. Again, the Eisenhower for the
split end in the four countries, the four home nations in 2002.
So that was the first one. So we played two and four, which
was Malaysia and then Puerto Rico and then Richie Scott
Jemison, George Murray played in the one in 2006 and South
Africa. And we, we actually, it was
funny because we had a house and was sitting in the morning going
over a couple of things and we were lying.
I think we're lying about third, the 4th.
And you know, George Murray made a great comment.
He says, you know, it's not every day you get an opportunity
win a world championship and I thought, my God, that is right.
So they did really well. And then in 2008, you know, so
we, we had been in Australia. So what we always try to do is I
would always try and go to the venue of the year before and see
what what we needed to do. So try and plan it really well.
And I could be think, you know, how the courses are, what type
of grasses, etcetera, what the accommodation is like.
So we went to we're going over to Australia with the with the
squad. So I think we had about 6 or 7.
So what we did was we were playing in tournaments in
Melbourne. So we went, we flew to Adelaide
1st and we spent a week in Adelaide and played the courses
right. And we got to lie the line.
So for me it was always a bit and Callum was there, Wallace
was there, Gav Deal wasn't there, but I would get input
from them, right? So from the area, there was a
one of the Scottish guys who does 3D Ryan Lumsen, he lives in
Adelaide. So I got in touch with him to
give us a hand worth where we should stay, what we should do.
And the official tale, the the Eisenhower always want you to
stay in the official tale. But it's like in the middle
Adelaide, it's a note away from the course, right?
So it's a bloody nightmare. So you've got to get buses and
so you imagine the logistics, you're spending two hours a day
travelling. So we went and Adelaide to see
will out wars and whatever. But there's a, there's a great
sport called Glen Elk which is right on the beach right up from
the golf courses. So the Grange and Adelaide are
just about they were pretty much 6 or 7 minutes away.
So I got him involved and said, look, I'm thinking about maybe
getting a couple of apartments right on the beach there.
There's loads of restaurants, right?
We can hire him any bus and we can just go back and forth and
do it. One thing.
So they were like, yeah, that's a good idea Ryan and our ID
right? So I'd looked at apartments.
So Ryan helped me with that. So I got 22 apartments.
So there are room each and stuff.
And so that was great and with we once we were kind of coming
through things like the clothing and stuff, they got to pick what
they wanted right. So ever all the logistics.
So travelling to Australia is obviously a loving our time
difference. So you kind of just rock up the
day before. So definitely through through
Aberdeen Asset we had arranged things and Sydney, so we're
playing NSW, the Australian. We did a little company day for
for Aberdeen Asset at NSW, so it gives us a game.
So we flew over there, they'd organized a tail right on the
rocks right and the harbour. So we chilled out for a couple
of days, was dead about a sightseeing.
Then we practiced for the week, like played in these things and
in we're only, I think it was an hour and a half flight to
Adelaide maybe. Yeah.
So, so they had involvement and that right.
So they knew exactly what was common, right.
So they were very happy with all the things.
So that was a big for me, that was a big part of it.
So when we when we played, they all had a great involvement in
it. And when they played first day
we were OK, you know, we're lying about 10 tour.
We were quite good. Second day Garth played really
poor, had a really poor score, but the other two played really
well. So we're up maybe when it must
have been in the top 4. But Gav was brilliant because he
said, look, I'm hitting it great.
I just flew all the greens that I was sure I just I just made a
backside of the the playing part.
But I'm good to go next the the Grange.
He was a lowest scorer. So he he kept the thing really,
really good and going. So he should I get shot 67 not
on it. So we now had a four short lead
going out in the last round and with like quote Callum was
saying when we got back from the course, we were going to a shops
and stuff on and then as part of the cool down we just go and
walk along the water on the beach.
So it gave them about a chill time.
No, you've got the water up to your knees, so you're a better
recovery, right. So we walk along, shoot the
breeze, you know what happened, but just just generally have a
really good laugh and have a good time.
And then the next day we got up in the morning, we wasn't teeing
off until lunchtime. So we said, right, we'll go for
breakfast somewhere. So we, with a walk along the
beach went a place for breakfast, right.
And I remember so vividly, we're on the, the minibus and the
driveway. You've got a drive in through
the about the course, Whale Adelaide.
And they had some bloody music going.
I don't know what it was, but they were absolutely in great
spirits. You know, they're about singing
at the top of their voices and stuff.
They were bashing on the window when they were going past the
range and stuff like that. And I thought, my God, you know,
and as a, and as a, the outside guy, you don't know how it's
going to go. You're just hoping that these
guys, you know, really thrive on that.
And it was windy. So Calum's off first.
No, it was no Calum was no Calum was off last.
He was a best scorer. So I think a guy was of Callum
started with four bodies at the first five.
I think he played he was playing with Fowler.
I think Ricky Fowler who he won the individual.
He was really good and the the wind, you know, he could really
shape it. But Callum was awesome in the
wind, right. So him is just drilling this
thing along the deck. So the other two played the
dollar, two Americans who were lying 2nd and I can't remember.
I must look up who it was. It was maybe Billy Horshall.
And so they were poor. They were.
They're short in the somewhere because they couldn't control
and wind. When we got to 9, the 9th hole,
we're already 1012 ahead. Wow, that's incredible.
Because with two with two guys level and Callum was 4 under.
So it was in Sweden. What Sweden were going green.
They were thubbed and I was kind of concerned about them.
And as you as you're as you're dodging about you're almost
trying not to watch. I think, OK, still mate, you
know, I just I just need to get this over and I've got across a
couple of halls and I saw the Swedes were going well.
So I went and watch. I think it was Gav play down
maybe 17. So he's now maybe a couple over.
As I say, it's really high winds and I'm thinking that's really
good. You know, that's great.
And he ended up bubbling 17. But the Swedish coach came
across and I hadn't seen a scoreboard.
So I'm like, I'm getting kind of touchy, you know, how is it
going? And I says, how's your guys
going? Oh, he says we've had a
nightmare. I says, oh, you were only, you
know, you were quite close. He says, Oh no, we've we fell
off a Cliff. We had double boogies and a
treble boogie. And I'm like, Oh my God.
And I walk and I walked down the last.
We're Gav and the Dutch coaches who was really friendly where
they wanted the the year, the years before.
So they've come out with a tray, fill a beer and I'm walking,
walking across and I'm still not sure.
And they said, we've brought beer for you, you know, to
celebrate. And I'm like, no, no, no, no,
we've not won yet. We've not won yet.
And they were like, you've definitely when you're 10 joints
ahead, you can't even lose. Wow.
And it was, it was tremendous. It was a tremendous experience.
And we went, we went to the the dinner at night and the prize
given at night and stuff. And we drew, I drove no to a
taxi and and I had a couple of drinks, but for some reason I
didn't, I didn't want a drink. I don't know why, you know, it
almost I thought my good was what we just achieved, you know?
Yeah. The chairman, he was in Alistair
Law, he was in tears. He couldn't.
He couldn't believe it, you know.
So it was a tremendous, tremendous experience.
You know, absolutely. And then in these days, how's
your career transition now worth?
You've been through all these great experiences with Scotland,
you've got so many tour pros that you still coach.
What's, what's a day-to-day routine like for you these days?
Speaking to you, I coach up, but I ended up I stopped Scottish
golf in 2020 and I would have been, what would that be?
6061? I'm just calling up 67.
So it was one of those things for the first time I'm like, OK,
right, what am I going to do? COVID was here.
I enjoyed that. And that kind of that did me a
favor to be honest, because I'd been so busy for so many years,
you know, traveling around the world and you know, the teams
and stuff. I was doing daft things, you
know, like I was working 330 days a year and stuff.
And the days were ridiculous, you know, so you'd go away to
South Africa for 8 weeks and you'd be up in the morning at
5:00 and you know, you and, and you just did it.
It was great. It was absolutely tremendous.
But you didn't know what was going on when you were in it.
And then when a chance to reflect on it, I thought, right,
OK, what am I going to do? And I just basically let it run.
So things like Newton Mills, the Golf Academy, they all said, why
don't you come in and do a couple of days for us?
We're pretty busy. So I've been doing that for the
last number of years. So do Sundays and Tuesdays.
OK, They, they organized that. I just followed up a day before
what my timetable is, right? I've been a the Stephen
Gallagher Foundation. I coaching that we have four or
five squads for that youngsters, all youngsters below are
generally below the the Scottish boys team, right.
So we're trying to kind of help them to get to the Scottish boys
team if you like. So So what we're hoping for is
that they come through a year or two there, they make the team
and then they can go into this the the national squad from
there. And then that frees up some
space. So for the others.
So that's a kind of winter thing.
That's, that's every side. I'll be pretty much right
through the winter. And then I, I look at, you know,
a few guys that I look after, you know, Richie's kind of one
of them of this is he has been 26 years or something.
So, so I still want him. I go at tournaments with him, so
I had a few other youngsters, you know, so my diary is quite,
quite varied, which is good. So if, you know, people will
maybe get in touch and go. Yeah, I hear you've got to be
about a time, you know, can you help me?
And I go, yeah, yeah. So I've got a few young lines I
quite like spend a lot of time with and, you know, trying to
help them, trying to become as as good as I possibly can.
So yeah, it's pretty so still, still pretty busy some sometimes
maybe best feeling I want to be at times, but no, you know, so
get about a time for my hobbies and stuff like that.
So it's quite good. You know, but our old age.
Hi. And if you get a piece of advice
for any, obviously any player, we shouldn't just say young
players, but any player because your things can happen at any
age for different people. What would be your main piece of
advice for folk that are trying to improve their game
effectively and and get to a different level?
I think your game doesn't change.
I mean, you're, your technique will be quite similar to what it
was probably 20 years ago, right?
So what you're trying to do is you should agree on a plan of
what you're doing, right? So you're trying to get from A
to B right now. We might never reach B, right?
But if you agree on it with your coach or whatever, and you
should say, right, that's what I'm trying to go, right?
The golf game is not linear. So you'll go through spells, but
it's good. And then it'll drop off a little
bit. That's just being a human being.
So it's again, understanding that.
So if you agree on where you're going, then stick to that.
What I see a lot of times is that people chop and change
things. They're looking for quite a
quick answer and there's not a quick answer, right?
So once you agree it right, this is what I do and this is what
I'm trying to do, Right? Good.
Well, all convinced for that, yeah, let's go with that, right.
Rather than, oh, there must be something new, there must be
something else that I can do, you know.
So a lot of the time it's it can be a lot more straightforward,
right? But we can make it quite
complicated and feel, I would say to people feel is a constant
change. So your body chemistry is
constantly changing. So we wake up in the morning, we
feel pretty good. We pick up the club and we're
going, oh, this is feel great. And you know, and you go out and
you, you and your own game, you'll go out and space.
I'm playing magnificent, right. But what is it?
What has changed? Right.
Because you've just put everything together well and you
you run with that. And then if you're not playing
well after that, it hasn't, you know, if you filmed that you
would go. It looks the same.
Yeah, it's, you know, it's what's the difference, right.
And in which stop chasing a feel, right?
Because it feels different. So I would say if people use the
movement to get the feel around the field, to get the movement
right. So again, if you agree and
understand this is what I'm trying to do, right?
Let's go and do that. Let's go through the movement.
Ah, that's what it feels like today.
And that's what's going to change.
Because the amount of people have said to me, oh, I felt
great three weeks ago and now it feels poor, well, it's probably
not too dissimilar. Right.
It's probably moved a bit 3mm or something at some point and just
run your. Stuff like, you know that like I
laugh at people say to me, you know, you're out with them and,
and they'll say, oh, did you, did you notice that I changed
something there? You know, I tried to do this and
I'm like, no, no, it's not at all.
But a feeling is massive, isn't it?
And I think that puts us off. So my key and I think would be
that agree on what you're what you're trying to do and in stick
with that. So rather than chopping and
changing, there's one thing for sure.
When you see players who start changing caddies, coaches,
equipment, you're like on or, and this is a constant, you
know, you see them changing from coach to coach and you go,
that's not a good way to do it. Yeah, absolutely.
And the end up kind of, you know, some, some will be OK, but
some will fall off a Cliff, you know, and it's a shame because
they they sometimes don't realize what, what good stuff
they've got. No, it's great advice here.
If that makes sense. No, absolutely that.
That's great advice. So, Austin, thanks so much for
coming on and it's been great to hear from your brilliant
stories, a great career and. It's been fun for sure.
No, you're welcome. ABS, you're absolutely welcome.
Thank you. OK, thanks.
Thanks, Rose. I'd like to thank him for his
time and for sharing so many incredible stories and insights
from a lifetime spent coaching at the highest level of the
game. If you enjoyed this episode,
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I'm Ross McGuire. Thanks for listening.
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