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Welcome back to Linked by Golf, 
the podcast exploring the 

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journeys of people linked by the
game. 

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I'm your host, Ross McGuire, and
today's episode is a fascinating

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one because we're going behind 
the scenes of something every 

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golfer uses, but very few truly 
understand. 

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I'm at Strickson's European 
Custom Build Facility, sitting 

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down with our product manager, 
Joe Miller, and in this 

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conversation, we dive into the 
history of golf clubs, how 

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modern equipment is actually 
built on some of the biggest 

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misconceptions golfers have when
it comes to what's in their bag.

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If you've ever wondered whether 
your clubs are right for you or 

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what really matters when it 
comes to performance, this 

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episode will definitely make you
think differently. 

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Let's go over to Joe. 
Joe Miller, Shakson Product 

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Manager. 
Thanks for your time again. 

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We've talked already, Joe, about
your facility here at Ashfield, 

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but I'd love to go through some 
of the history of golf in 

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relation to Shakson and, and 
just get your perspective and 

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some of the the information from
Shakson itself. 

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So where does the story of our 
Golf Club really began? 

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That's a good one, Ross. 
And I know you're Scottish, so 

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you might be a little bit biased
on this and I don't blame you 

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because I think with regards to 
making golf clubs, it was the 

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sort of home. 
I think there's evidence and 

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it's debated that the first 
Pebble was struck with a stick 

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around the 12 and 13 hundreds. 
But there's evidence of crafted 

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golf clubs mid 1500s and they 
were sort of crafted out of 

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wood. 
And it was quite, when you go 

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back and I've looked at it a 
little bit and you might have to

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check this one, but I think it 
was King James the second who 

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said no more golf because you're
not practicing your archery. 

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And a lot of those guys who made
the bows, they actually became 

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crafting Craftsman, making golf 
clubs because they were good at 

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making bows. 
So they were generally, I think 

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they genuinely used hardwoods 
because obviously softwoods 

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wouldn't work, Beech, ash, and 
there was obviously some fruit 

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trees in their pears, apple. 
And then later we see Persimmon 

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and I don't think most people 
realise that's a fruit as well. 

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I do believe so, yeah. 
Those clubs, I think so, yeah, I

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could be wrong. 
We'd probably get 5000 people, 

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70. 
Mr. doesn't know his trees. 

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Yeah. 
So yeah, I think we can put it 

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down to Scotland sort of mid 
1500s really that we sort of saw

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the first ones and then. 
What part of that, Johnny, do 

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you think golfers really think 
about in terms of the history of

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the of the clubs and and where 
they came from? 

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Great question, isn't it? 
I think the big change is the 

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big transitions, you know, the, 
the, the, was it about 1920, 

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something like that? 
Was it steel shafts and, you 

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know, carbon shafts, graphite 
shafts? 

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I mean, for me, I mean, I love 
the science of it and getting 

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back just before the industrial 
revolution, we sort of saw the 

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first iron about, I think 
they're about 1720, something 

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like that. 
But it, you know, when they were

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using certain types of metals 
and I think it was a guy, if I 

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remember rightly, Abraham Derby 
with his smelting processes 

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using coke, he sort of could, he
could get low sulfur iron, which

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was less brittle. 
So all these things happen. 

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And you know, in Shropshire we 
saw Thomas Telford with the 

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bridges and all these things. 
So, you know, golf metals which 

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have been used, have often been 
used in other industries. 

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So until there was advancements 
there, we couldn't advance with 

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golf, you know, So it's changed 
radically. 

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But there's, there's been some 
huge steps along the way. 

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Titanium was massive, wasn't it?
You know, making those first, 

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those first big heady tribes. 
In fact, Cleveland was the first

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company to make a 460CC drive. 
We saw the launcher. 

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Yeah, they made a four. 
CC drive, Yeah. 

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First, first company to do that.
Fantastic. 

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Yeah, there's a there's a claim 
to fame that. 

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And what what is it about those 
I guess evolutions in golf and 

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the manufacture and creation 
that you know, influences how a 

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club actually feels in the 
golfers hands? 

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It's a good question. 
To me, it's the head weights 

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haven't changed massively in the
grit weights the shafts have, 

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but the sort of balance and the 
feel of a Golf Club, it hasn't 

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changed radically. 
But you know, you have to have 

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head weights, grit weights and 
shaft weights, precision to make

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it sort of feel good. 
And how it feels in the hands 

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that, you know, you don't need 
too big a change before it feels

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odd, doesn't feel right. 
And that's where custom clubs 

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come in. 
And you know, when you go, you 

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know, off piece with radically 
different lengths and things, 

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you can see some some changes. 
Yeah. 

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And we've. 
Touched on a set of job. 

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At what stage do you see that 
club is actually real to you or.

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When the grip goes on, 
definitely, yeah. 

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And there's no doubt about it. 
When the grip goes on, suddenly 

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it's in your hands. 
It's the appropriate diameter, 

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the swing weights. 
Correct. 

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You know, you can sort of feel 
it. 

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You can swish it. 
Yeah. 

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Until the grip goes on. 
Yeah, It feels. 

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It's like, it's like it's, you 
know, it's it's not. 

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It's alien to you. 
The grip needs to go on. 

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And what does quality mean in 
this? 

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Building, oh, everything, 
everything. 

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It's a, it's a Japanese company.
We are duty bound, you know that

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that's our job. 
We are duty bound to give a 

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service and a product to the 
consumer who's, you know, hard 

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earned money, you know, whatever
profession they are, you know, 

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healthcare worker, garden or 
whatever, they worked hard to 

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get that money and this is their
disposable income. 

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And it's our duty, you know, as 
a Japanese company, they demand 

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that we give a quality product 
that's first and foremost above 

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everything else. 
And where does our attention to 

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detail mark the most? 
That's a great question. 

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For most people, I would suggest
when they look at a Golf Club, 

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they look at the sort of 
cosmetic and the finish of the 

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head, the feral and then 
obviously the grip where you 

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touch the club because if it 
scrambled or just, you know, 

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it's not on correctly, it's very
visible. 

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But to me, from our processes, 
the actual cut length is the 

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most important. 
If we get that wrong, so many 

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other things are wrong. 
The length's wrong, the lies 

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wrong, the swing rates wrong. 
So if we make a mistake and he's

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not picked up, the cutting of 
the shaft is absolutely 

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critical. 
And how far we put it into the 

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head, the foul depth. 
So we need those things to be 

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precise. 
But I get it that people see the

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other things. 
They see a small scratch or they

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see a, you know, they might see 
it's a slight decal 

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misalignment. 
It's not going to change the 

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actual physical capabilities or,
you know, what are the club 

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words. 
But if you cut that shaft wrong,

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you know you've got to go 
backwards, you've got to start 

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again. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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And then on that point, what 
kind of skills do people need to

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be able to put the clubs 
together at that type of level 

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that you're? 
Talking about Joe, Gosh. 

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It's going on, isn't it? 
I mean, people would always sort

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of say hand die and dexterity, 
but to me, you can learn those 

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skills reasonably quickly, 
especially with repetition. 

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To me, it's a trait. 
You've got to care, You've got 

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to, you've got to put it. 
If it goes on the swing weight 

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scale and you need to walk 100 
yards back into the warehouse to

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pick a head weight -2 to align 
the swing weight, that's what 

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you've got to do. 
You've got to care. 

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It's not a skill to me, it's 
that it's, it's a passion and 

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that's maybe a little bit 
overused, but there's people who

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have a passion for golf who work
in our workshop as they do in 

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all golf industry. 
But there's other people who do 

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it for wage but still to care. 
You know, that means probably 

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more than anything because you 
know, golf clubs aren't cheap 

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anymore. 
They need to be right And you 

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need to be bothered. 
You know, if you've put a grip 

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on incorrectly, you need to take
it back off. 

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I, I, I was showing you how we 
laid up tape earlier. 

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If you if if there's a Seymour 
wrinkle in the tape, just take 

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it off. 
That's on about 20 seconds 

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before there's a tape. 
I've done it before. 

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I noticed. 
But you know, it's those sort of

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things that you know, if you, if
you're layering up a grip and 

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the first one goes on with the 
wrinkle, it's a snowball effect.

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It multiplies. 
And certainly you've got a Ridge

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underneath the grip running in 
the wrong direction. 

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Just take it off, just start 
again. 

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Care about what you're doing. 
So yes, skills maybe or traits 

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To me it's do you care? 
And how do you know the build is

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right when you get to the end? 
QC effectively has a number of 

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procedures and processes length 
lie, loft, swing way and and we 

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have to be within a very tight 
tolerance from our Japanese spec

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sheet. 
So yeah, they we're very 

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particular about that. 
And how do you think golfers 

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feel about changes in equipment?
Changes. 

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That's a great question. 
When you mean changes, you sort 

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of say like when they change 
their spec or like the materials

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change. 
What do you think? 

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OK, I guess it could be though, 
Yeah, like the look, the feel, 

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the what's the what's the kind 
of things that you bump up 

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against with with customers 
ultimately. 

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Oh, I. 
Think, I think for me it's the 

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the unwillingness to move off 
the sort of norm the tradition 

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golfers just want it to look a 
driver has to look like a sort 

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of pear shape or a nice profile 
has to look like this and that 

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puts demands and and constraints
on R&D and. 

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We're almost conductioned, don't
we? 

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Yeah, yeah, I, I think, and I 
get it. 

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I understand that, you know, we 
do like things what look nice, 

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but you know, there's times 
they'll go with it, you know, 

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and and marketing can drive it, 
but we often see things coming 

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round full circle, don't we? 
You know, golf ball, you know, 

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visual tech and stuff, and it 
always ends on back at a white 

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ball and you know, head designs 
that come back to a traditional.

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You call the Golf Museum in 
Saint Andrews, you can see what 

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effectively hybrids from 200 
years ago. 

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Yes, exactly. 
And they knew what they were 

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doing. 
They just didn't have the 

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materials to do it. 
You know the one at Saint 

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Andrews, they're just off. 
The Old Course is phenomenal. 

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It's. 
Unbelievable. 

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Yeah, it is. 
And those knew what they were 

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doing. 
And you even see things like 

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convex and concave faces and all
that. 

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It's quite incredible, yeah. 
Yeah. 

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And I guess just on that theme, 
what things have stayed pretty 

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consistent in golf even though 
the rest of it evolves? 

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Well, head weights, that's the 
one for me. 

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We choose. 
Fascinated by that? 

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Yeah, Head weights especially 
like, you know, drivers, even 

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though they've gone in volume 
much bigger, the actual weight, 

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it hasn't changed a lot. 
You know, titanium face plates 

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are quite heavy because they're 
forged and the bodies are 

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lighter. 
They tend to be a cast titanium,

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maybe an 811 titanium, but they 
haven't changed a great deal. 

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We've messed with that, 
everybody else trying to trying 

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to sort of find the Holy Grail. 
But head weights haven't changed

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a lot. 
Shaft weights have changed 

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radically and grip weights a 
little bit, but remember if 

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you've got a headwind, you've 
got to balance it at the other 

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end. 
So if you go like grip weight, 

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you're going to have a heavy 
swing weight if the head weight 

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stays consistent. 
So yeah, there's, there's 

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challenges there. 
For me. 

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Shaft weight has changed and 
shaft manufacturing, I think, 

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you know, they started off when 
we were talking about earlier 

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the 1500s. 
I think it started with Hazel 

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before they ever went to 
Hickory. 

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So we've seen an evolution from,
you know, natural products into 

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sort of man made products into 
now composites. 

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So yeah, we've seen a lot of 
change there and. 

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Then how do you decide when 
something is truly better versus

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just different? 
How do you know? 

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Gosh, that's that's a tough one.
I think when you make a radical 

225
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:34,480
change, whether it be a square 
triangle driver or a hybrid type

226
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,320
iron, generally speaking, you 
can see some some gains, some 

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00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,560
some advantages, but does it 
overcome what people want to 

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00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,720
see? 
That's the challenge. 

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00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,080
So the challenge is to be able, 
like I said, I think I've just 

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00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,200
done this earlier, to make 
something what looks acceptable 

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00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,840
because there is this point, 
point in time in the golf 

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industry where there is definite
changes. 

233
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You know, titanium was a big 
one. 

234
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,640
You know, it's strength to 
weight ratios, phenomenal, its 

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ability to rebound, these sort 
of things. 

236
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,960
And you know, we touched on 
carbon graphite shafts and 

237
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there's some definite 
advantages. 

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00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,400
Now, I think if there's a big 
leap, people will take it. 

239
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,760
If it's a small leap but it 
means a difference in how it 

240
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,120
looks, I'm not so sure there's a
willingness to do that. 

241
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,880
Yeah, and then what the golfers 
misunderstand about choosing a 

242
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,640
quadrant. 
What things do you? 

243
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:34,560
Think, oh, specs definitely, no 
doubt the you know, the I'm I'm 

244
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:39,040
standard spec is I've heard that
so many times and I don't think 

245
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,560
there's a realization that even 
within brands, let alone across 

246
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:46,320
the industry, that a standard 
spec from one product range is 

247
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,760
different to another. 
So if you get a smaller profile 

248
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:56,560
and iron micro cavity, you can 
almost guarantee the lie will be

249
00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:00,880
a little flatter than the bigger
headed, you know, perimeter 

250
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,640
weight club. 
There's a consideration given to

251
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,720
that type of goal from where 
he's going to hit it. 

252
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,680
So if you said to me on my 
wedge, I want to set a wages Joe

253
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:15,720
and the lies standard, you know,
to me it could be 63.5, it could

254
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,000
be 64.5 and then you say I'm 
standard length and I'm like, 

255
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,960
well, this brand is this length 
and this brand is this. 

256
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,800
So I said, Oh yeah, unless you 
tell me your eye on his 37.25 

257
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,400
and by the way, you need to tell
me exactly which ruling you're 

258
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,720
measuring it on. 
It means nothing to me. 

259
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,360
Yeah. 
So you know, when someone 

260
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,240
marches in and says I'm 
standard, I'm like, there is 

261
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,360
there is no standard. 
You know, it's like someone say 

262
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,400
you need Marks and Spencer's. 
I need a standard pair of 

263
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,480
trousers. 
You know, what's one of them? 

264
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,400
And even the sizes of the 
trousers, you know, they they 

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vary, don't they? 
There is no standard. 

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If you've been enjoying the 
show, please do remember to 

267
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,840
follow on your favorite podcast 
platform and share it with a 

268
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,200
friend. 
Now let's get. 

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00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,720
Back to the pod. 
So when people find the right 

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say of what actually changes for
them? 

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If they if they get it right, I 
think there's a time and it's 

272
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,200
coming. 
It comes to all of us as 

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00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,920
golfers. 
If you get it right, it really 

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does make a difference. 
You know, even at a dress you're

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comfortable on you before you 
even hit the club. 

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You put your hands on it, you 
address it. 

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It's the length and lie is right
before you even start. 

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00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,080
You're in the right place, your 
mindset and if you have early 

279
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success with the Golf Club, how 
psychologically that you know 

280
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,480
you really you know there's a 
lot of psychology isn't the best

281
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,040
shots are hitting Nets. 
The second best shots are hit on

282
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,120
a range. 
The third best shots are hit on 

283
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,600
a golf course, so confidence is 
huge. 

284
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,360
But then when you go to swing 
your Golf Club when things are 

285
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,560
right, you know, to be able to 
have that centered hit with a 

286
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,840
square face. 
I mean, the face angle is king. 

287
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,400
The bullet starts off where the 
gun aims it. 

288
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,760
So you know, if you can get 
those, if you can get things 

289
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,400
right and launch monitor data is
fabulous. 

290
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,560
I'm a big fan of it. 
But remember there's an 

291
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,960
algorithm and remember it's 
still physics. 

292
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,440
So from from from Galileo to 
Newton to Einstein to Hawking, 

293
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:18,840
we're still guessing a little 
bit. 

294
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,360
But what we do know is those 
quantifiable things like 

295
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,960
lengths, lies, head weights. 
So if people really want to get 

296
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,600
into golf, they would learn that
spec and they would learn what 

297
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,000
they need instead of getting 
wrapped up in the seven iron 

298
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,720
spinning at 6100. 
There's still an element of sort

299
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,760
of guessing going on here, but 
with specs, it's quantifiable. 

300
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,520
This is the mass, this is the 
length, this is the material 

301
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,080
learning. 
Understand it and know what your

302
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,680
specs are because you can go to 
a range and you can go on launch

303
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,760
monitor data and one day you hit
in a one piece range ball, you 

304
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,240
know, with a bit of mud on the 
next day you hit in a two piece 

305
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,880
with some water on and all these
things change. 

306
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,120
Everything changes. 
So unless you can, unless you 

307
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,200
can quantify it, you know, it's 
difficult with launch Monitor 

308
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,760
data. 
It's a brilliant product. 

309
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,520
But like I say, we've forgotten 
the basics a little bit, I think

310
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,560
sometimes. 
And to me, you know when you've 

311
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,200
been in our workshop, that's 
where it starts. 

312
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,720
You know, know your specs, 
understand it when you get 

313
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,680
there. 
There's no reason to not know 

314
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,800
what you think you should be or 
roughly and being going to be 

315
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,000
afraid to ask those questions. 
Absolutely, and what can 

316
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,560
everyday golfers learn from how 
a league players approach? 

317
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:35,080
Equipment. 
So this might surprise people. 

318
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,520
First of all, most of them don't
care what it looks like 4 player

319
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,920
it sometimes it looks like it's 
been dragged behind the car. 

320
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,840
They want it to work for them. 
It's a toolkit. 

321
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,120
So I'll give you an example. 
Me and you go to. 

322
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,480
We're going to do some DIY at 
home. 

323
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,960
Yeah. 
And we buy a set of matching 

324
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,600
standard tools, don't we? 
And the box is the same as 

325
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,840
yellow and black. 
And we've got the same saw and 

326
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,800
the same blade and. 
And it's got a look, right. 

327
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,760
And then the guy who can make 
the cupboard properly, we have 

328
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,319
not get him in, don't we? 
Because we've made a really poor

329
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:11,400
job of putting that IKEA 
cupboard together. 

330
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,200
Or we tried to make a desk for 
the door or something. 

331
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,680
So we have to call in a 
Craftsman and he walks in and 

332
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,599
they look like they fell out the
back of the door. 

333
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,560
We don't know. 
He's got a different source. 

334
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,319
They're all worn out. 
They're tools, aren't they? 

335
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,240
They are. 
They are to do a job. 

336
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,920
And when you look at elite 
players and some tool players, 

337
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,360
there's, there's old clubs in 
the back, you know, a scratch to

338
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,440
the top of the crown. 
It doesn't, it just doesn't 

339
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,760
bother them. 
There's lead tape smeared on it.

340
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,000
It's a tool to work in retail 
and consumers. 

341
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,720
You know, if there's a speck of 
rust comes on occasionally, you 

342
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,280
know, it'll be returned, you 
know, and yeah. 

343
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,560
And, and we sort of have that 
scenario whereby it's, it's not 

344
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,440
affecting the club in any way. 
Whereas elite golfers, they 

345
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,120
just, it doesn't matter. 
Their job, whether it be an 

346
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:01,040
elite amateur, is to shoot the 
lowest score or a professional 

347
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,680
to earn as much money in to win 
those tournaments. 

348
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,240
So to them, it's a toolkit. 
To most amateurs, it's as much a

349
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,760
prized possession. 
And, you know, they want it to 

350
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,440
look nice. 
Whereas I think elite golfers, 

351
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,960
no, it's it's got to work. 
And then you see that a lot. 

352
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,240
And don't get me wrong with some
of the amateurs who will clean 

353
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,360
their clubs, you know, big, you 
know, be obsession about it. 

354
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,760
But for me, for amateurs to top 
throws, it's there. 

355
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,840
It's more like they know their 
specs and it's got to work. 

356
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,400
And if it's an old free would 
what works or an old putter, it 

357
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,040
stays in the back. 
If they want the old generation 

358
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,080
ball, they use that. 
They don't have to go to the new

359
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,280
and, you know, the newest 
generation of products. 

360
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,160
Blow in and then how much 
influence the two players have 

361
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,840
on what ends up in regular 
golfers bags do you think? 

362
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,480
Oh, there's no doubt and there's
a huge influence in there. 

363
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,640
I don't think companies would 
pay multi millions to players if

364
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,480
they if they didn't think it had
an influence. 

365
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:03,120
There is a pyramid of influence 
as a company. 

366
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,480
I think you can see, you know, 
our tour staff isn't as big as 

367
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,240
some others. 
But from a retailer and a 

368
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,520
consumer point of view, we 
realise that retailers have to 

369
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,680
make a living and consumers, 
there's a sort of a range, a 

370
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,600
price range where clubs, you 
know, go out of range. 

371
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,640
And by not having such a huge 
tour staff and a huge marketing 

372
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,720
budget, we are able to offer 
very competitively priced 

373
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,680
products. 
We don't have to pay 50 million 

374
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,320
to this player and this player. 
And yet proportionally, if you 

375
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,520
actually look at the amount of 
tourings we have, like most, 

376
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,000
most weeks on PG Tour, it's a 
field say 140 plus golfers, we 

377
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,440
might only have 10 staffers and 
yet our proportion of wins is 

378
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,440
much higher than that. 
So we punch really well from a 

379
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,240
tour point of view. 
And a lot of those players, you 

380
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,440
can imagine, it's a Japanese 
company, they've been with us 

381
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,760
for many, many years. 
Not a lot of chopping and 

382
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,560
changing there. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

383
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,120
And then what's a mem? 
Memorable moment where equipment

384
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:03,560
really marked for one of those 
players. 

385
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,240
Have you got any memories that 
really stand out? 

386
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,640
Oh absolutely, the one that 
stands out for me. 

387
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:08,720
You're not going to believe 
this. 

388
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,760
Let me guess, I think it was 
1995. 

389
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,080
Shinnecock Hills. 
This is a guy using a club which

390
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,600
we talked about tour players 
using something. 

391
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:23,440
What works was a Cleveland staff
player, Corey Paving hit in his 

392
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,840
forward like Shinnicop Hill. 
It was Avas forward. 

393
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,440
And did you see the Ions? 
Do you remember? 

394
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,120
It's like the ones where. 
They kind of like a heel on 

395
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,920
them, yeah. 
The anti Shank, yeah. 

396
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,680
And they had a vibration system 
on which was developed by I 

397
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:44,800
think Rossignol, the ski people.
And there's a guy who used a 

398
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,960
product that worked, you know, 
we got a little bit more loft on

399
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,880
it. 
I think it was, you know, a 16° 

400
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,080
forward 16 1/2. 
And his caddy had a discussion 

401
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,240
with him. 
I think it was 225 pin, 

402
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,720
something like 9 or 10 front. 
And they were discussing 2 iron 

403
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,880
and this forward, you know, 
because there wouldn't be a huge

404
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,280
difference in in the two because
the 2 iron would be quite strong

405
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,080
enough. 
And they they went with that 

406
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,080
forward and there was there was 
a goal for using a club that 

407
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,080
worked, you know, and years ago,
you know, you wouldn't have had 

408
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,320
that type of head with where the
mask was and being able to get 

409
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,680
it in the air. 
And, you know, he was, what was 

410
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,040
he, 5 foot 904? 
You know, no, no, you know, he 

411
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,440
wasn't a big man And and you 
know, he only hit it 2:30 off 

412
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,480
the team and he had another 225 
to go. 

413
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,040
Yeah, that was incredible. 
And then I think Greg Norman was

414
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,800
behind you chasing him down 
straight. 

415
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,320
And to me, you know, he hit that
little drawing with that, with 

416
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,800
that forward. 
And I was like, wow. 

417
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,880
And probably you, you won't see 
that someone anymore because, 

418
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,000
you know, unlike boxing, we 
don't have weight divisions. 

419
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080
But you look at the guys now, 
you know, they hit it so far. 

420
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,760
They are such big units. 
Yeah, maybe that we won't see 

421
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,560
those shots quite so much him 
and the sort of Zach Johnson's 

422
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,240
and the Jeff Slewman's anymore. 
But there was a guy who used 

423
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,920
something that didn't look 
necessarily perfect. 

424
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,400
Nobody worked. 
Yeah, it was definitely 

425
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:05,400
different that one. 
Yeah. 

426
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,080
And then behind the scenes here,
Joe, who are the people that 

427
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,120
golfers never get to see behind 
the brand? 

428
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,760
In this building, I think the 
admin side of things, the demand

429
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,160
planning, you know those, those 
orders are put in, you know, we,

430
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,960
we are, we're about to launch a 
product in the upcoming months 

431
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,000
and that's all done and dusted. 
We're moving on to the next lot 

432
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,880
now. 
So what you see when it comes 

433
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,360
out we're, we're on the next 1-2
years down the line. 

434
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,640
So we've a team of demand 
planners who works with all 

435
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,320
different vendors from all over 
the world bringing those 

436
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480
components in here. 
So they're really big. 

437
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,520
Then we have the the the custom 
services team deal with the 

438
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,000
retailers, consumers, So all of 
those sort of people behind the 

439
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,280
scenes, you know, often Dove, 
you just want to see that 

440
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,600
sprinkling of gold does, don't 
you? 

441
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,640
The tour truck and then you know
what I mean, the interesting 

442
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,160
bit, but there is no products 
without the teams behind. 

443
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,480
And then the workshops team, you
know, every day they come in 

444
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,520
and, you know, build golf clubs 
every single day and. 

445
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:09,720
It's. 
Hundreds. 

446
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,280
Yeah, it is. 
Hundreds and hundreds. 

447
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,520
Yeah, it's a lot of golf clubs. 
You know, most of those guys, 

448
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,360
the skilled ones, will pop out 
over 100 clubs a day. 

449
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,720
Wow. 
And. 

450
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,200
Then what draws those people on 
the What can a golfer comment 

451
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,520
you think? 
What do you see? 

452
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,160
What's someone like me who 
failed golfers because we all 

453
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,560
wanted to play on tour, didn't 
we? 

454
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,200
And then we had to find a 
different route. 

455
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,880
I think you did OK. 
You're talking against Daria 

456
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,360
Wilson from You Can Have Been 
Out but. 

457
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,320
The I think there's a passion 
with some people and there's no 

458
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,880
doubt about it. 
It's their life, isn't it? 

459
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,640
You know, it's, it's a bit of a 
bell chanting when he said, you 

460
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:49,720
know, it's a matter of life and 
death. 

461
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,080
It's more important than that 
Football. 

462
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,120
And it's a bit like that with 
golf that some people it's, it's

463
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,720
everything to them. 
They live and breathe it and 

464
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,840
some people. 
But then you get, I think people

465
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,640
like me like the science side of
things as well. 

466
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,520
So the sport and the science 
sort of come together, you know,

467
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,000
why does it do that? 
You know? 

468
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,760
You know, there's a lot more to 
it than people think, you know, 

469
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,720
the metals, the composites, the 
putting it together. 

470
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040
So we get all sort of walks of 
life, I think. 

471
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,840
But generally speaking, a lot of
people who work in this 

472
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,240
industry, especially in sales 
and workshop, they tend to be 

473
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,760
interested in golf and play the 
game. 

474
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,360
Most of our team play the game. 
Absolutely. 

475
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,200
And then just wrapping up here, 
Joe, watch something about us 

476
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,840
for Sally that was surprised 
last night. 

477
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,600
I think probably the workshop. 
I think the workshop and the 

478
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,560
nature of the tools. 
There you go. 

479
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,360
There's a good one. 
So I showed you the cutting 

480
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,280
rooms and that's quite a 
sophisticated piece of 

481
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,520
equipment, very accurate, can 
cut multiple shafts like a set 

482
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,880
of irons. 
But then we have the Ferrell 

483
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,600
press where we press the the 
Ferrells on. 

484
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,760
Well, you can do that by hand, 
but then after that very much 

485
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520
it's all hands on. 
So, you know, most people could 

486
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,360
build golf clubs in their garage
with sort of quite, you know, 

487
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,760
simple tools and that process is
very hands on all the way 

488
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,040
through. 
You know, that I think people 

489
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,520
would be surprised at the lack 
of, you know, sort of robotics. 

490
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,120
Everything is still hands. 
And when you, you know, you sort

491
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,000
of talk about handcrafted and 
things, you know, there's always

492
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,040
a worry, isn't there? 
And there always will be. 

493
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,960
When you're out the human 
element, it's a Friday 

494
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,080
afternoon, you know, you know, 
you see, you want to go, Oh, you

495
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840
know, you know, you're worried 
about the mortgage payment or 

496
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,840
you know, you've had a rally 
with the girlfriend. 

497
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,920
You know, there's always those 
things going through your head. 

498
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,760
So keeping that human element 
and having those processes in 

499
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,080
place because you, you know, you
physically have to put a grip on

500
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,160
you do have to put a tip weight 
in. 

501
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,880
So as you saw, there isn't this,
there isn't these high tech 

502
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,760
machines in there. 
People, I think people think 

503
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,520
that it starts off like Wallace 
and Gromit and it gets to the 

504
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,600
other end. 
It just doesn't work like that. 

505
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,320
So yeah, a lot of people hands 
on a lot of attention to detail 

506
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,680
from the start process to the 
end. 

507
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,800
But it's not like, you know, 
lights and gadgets and it's a 

508
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,400
very sort of simple basic tool 
workshop. 

509
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,040
And that's that's what a lot of 
them are, because the actual put

510
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,000
in the components together is 
unlike the actual making of the 

511
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,400
components. 
There's more automated processes

512
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,040
to make the heads than there is.
And you put it all together. 

513
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,400
And all our custom tubs are 
built here for the whole of 

514
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,800
Europe. 
So everything from here goes all

515
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,240
over Europe. 
So yeah, we build it and send it

516
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,920
out. 
So, you know, we put those parts

517
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,040
together. 
And to me, which you've got 

518
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,040
quality components, then it's 
about how it's put together. 

519
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,080
It really is. 
So yeah, I think that would 

520
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,200
surprise a lot of people. 
They would expect to go in there

521
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,280
and there would be one person 
pushing buttons, but that's not 

522
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,760
the case, is it? 
Definitely no. 

523
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
It was absolutely blown away. 
But Joe, thanks so much for 

524
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,640
taking. 
Thanks for touring. 

525
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,760
The facility has been absolutely
fascinating. 

526
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,520
Again, Timothy, thanks so much. 
No problem, thank you. 

527
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,560
I'd like to thank Joe Miller and
his team at strikes and for the 

528
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,480
time and support to create this 
episode. 

529
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,240
If you enjoyed the show, make 
sure to follow or subscribe 

530
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,440
wherever you're listening. 
And if you know someone who's 

531
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,920
going through a fitting or 
thinking about new clubs, do 

532
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,520
send us their way. 
You can also find the show on 

533
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,920
Instagram at Linked by G2024 for
future episodes, clubs and 

534
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,760
insights. 
I'm Ross McGuire. 

535
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,560
Thanks for listening. 
Loman Golf Tours have helped 

536
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,520
thousands of guests build 
bespoke golf trips to create a 

537
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,360
magical experience. 
Travel in style with an 

538
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:38,840
executive chauffeur. 
Travel. 

539
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,200
Whether it's golf on a major 
championship venue or one of our

540
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,800
hidden gems, 5 star 
accommodation or a boutique bed 

541
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,280
and breakfast. 
Or is it whiskey tasting on a 

542
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,880
private boat? 
Loman Golf Tours are here to 

543
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,560
help build the tour of a 
lifetime. 

544
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,920
Whether you're celebrating a 
special occasion or ticking it 

545
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,960
off your bucket list, embark on 
a trip that you'll remember 

546
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,320
forever. 
Visit www.lomangolftours.com.