1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,320 Welcome back to Linked by Golf, the podcast exploring the 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:07,920 journeys of people linked by the game. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,040 I'm your host, Josh McGuire, and today's episode's a fascinating 4 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:12,840 one. We're going behind the scenes of 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,600 something every golfer experiences but very few truly 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,720 understand. I'm joined by John Mather, 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,640 sports psychologist, lecturer, and someone who's spent 30 years 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,000 working with elite performers across golf, tennis, snooker and 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,560 motorsport. In this conversation we get into 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,320 mental side of the game in a way that I think will generally 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,040 change how you think about your own golf. 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,440 We talk about pressure, acceptance, pre short routines 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,320 and why even the best players in the world aren't immune to self 14 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,640 doubt. And what really struck me is 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,720 that whether you're a scratch golfer, 20 handicapper, the 16 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,640 challenges John describes are the same. 17 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,120 It's just the level they show up at that's different. 18 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,280 If you've ever talked yourself out of a shot, lost your head 19 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,200 after a bad hole, I wondered why Your best golf seems to 20 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,160 disappear and it matters most. This episode is for you. 21 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,880 Let's go over to John. John, how are you doing? 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,680 I'm doing great, Ross. Thanks very much for having me 23 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,800 on your show. No problem at all. 24 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,120 And John, things have changed recently for you. 25 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,240 So you're no longer working at the University of Sterling. 26 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,840 So what's that changing in terms of how you're approaching the 27 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,000 customers and and they go forward here and especially how 28 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,840 you're going to be playing golf in the future as well? 29 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:25,000 Well, you're right. I worked at Stirling University 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,400 for 30 years and I left there at the end of last year, so it was 31 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,960 a great time by and large at the university. 32 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:36,280 But it was time for me to leave that sector and just do a little 33 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,160 bit of a more of my own thing and work more in private 34 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,600 practice. It probably means I'll have more 35 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:48,720 time to practice golf, to go to the gym, to rest and relax and 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,840 to take more holidays than 1/2 done over the past few decades. 37 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,480 But it's a chapter in my life that I'm really looking forward 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,560 to. Fantastic. 39 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,560 And John McKenna, Jump Street and yeah, but how did you get 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,000 involved in golf? And you've been working on 41 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,800 performance and golf together and I believe in other sports as 42 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,680 well, but golf is one of your main things. 43 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,880 How did that all begin for you? How's you get into sport? 44 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,760 Well, when I was growing up, I was always keen to to be 45 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,960 involved in lots of different sports. 46 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,040 And my first degree was in human movement. 47 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,160 And after that first degree in human movement, that probably 48 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,400 kindled my appetite to understand how people became 49 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,440 good at certain sports as well as participating in them. 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,880 And that fueled I need for me to go and do master's degrees and 51 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,040 working out exactly how people can de develop peak performance. 52 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,760 And then I went in to look at coaching philosophies, and then 53 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,400 eventually I did a PhD in psychology so that I've tried to 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,120 understand exactly how people can deliver their best 55 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,200 performances and competitions that matter to them. 56 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Fantastic. And then when you're doing that, 57 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,200 what types of experiences have you had with people who've been 58 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,240 working with you? What kind of things have have 59 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,240 happened as a result of working together? 60 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,760 So I've been lucky that over the last 30 years I've worked in 61 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,040 elite sport and lots of sports psychologists will work with 62 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,760 lots of different people on lots of different projects. 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,800 But what really invigorated me was watching elite sport so that 64 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,160 I can see sport being done at the very highest level. 65 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,000 So if it was a tennis ball being struck, A snooker ball being 66 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,440 struck, a golf ball being struck, some rugby, some 67 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 football, some cricket, any sport that was done at the 68 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,920 highest level, I was found really, really exciting and I 69 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,560 decided to focus my career on helping those people who are 70 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,480 already good at sport but just wanted to deliver their best 71 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,720 performance in the heat of competition and batter. 72 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,400 That was the part that really excited me and over the years 73 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,320 I've had a great chance to work in sports like golf, tennis, 74 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:15,520 snooker, motorsport and all with generally high performing 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,279 athletes. And now as I approach the the 76 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,280 Twilight part of my own career, it's great to be involved with 77 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,960 people that are really good at what they do. 78 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,360 Yeah. And John, what would you say? 79 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,520 I think it's really interesting. There's a lot of people becoming 80 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,440 more and more engaged than I guess performance. 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,640 Some folks might call it sports psychology, some people would 82 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,360 talk about how you engage for performance, etcetera. 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,760 But how do you think the perception has changed over the 84 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,280 years in regards to being involved with some of the 85 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:53,720 athletes and people who are participating in sport for 86 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:59,000 someone like yourself? In my lifetime, over the 30 87 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,040 years of my my applied work, I've probably seen a change. 88 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,880 I think in the early days and some sports you went to see a 89 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,560 sports psychologist if there was something wrong with you, or at 90 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:11,920 least that's what people thought. 91 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,240 But over the. But over the last 20 or 30 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,000 years, people have started to see that sports psychology can 93 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,920 make a small difference at elite level. 94 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,440 And we know that the number of good players we have in all 95 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:31,800 sports, a small difference can sometimes make a big difference 96 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,680 to the outcome. And I've always been fascinated 97 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,800 by the tiny marginal games that people search for. 98 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,520 And even if you look last night at The Players Championship, 99 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,760 mean with 1/2 an hour or an hour to go, any number of players 100 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:52,040 could have won and at the end, one shot separated the field and 101 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,200 Cameron Young was lucky enough to step over the line. 102 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,000 And so I think when the stakes are high and the differences 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,920 between the best players are small and sports psychology can 104 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:08,480 offer a small difference for the elite player, that can make a 105 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,360 big difference. And the more and more people 106 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,320 realize that, it becomes more and more accepted. 107 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,440 I would also say that there are some sports where sports 108 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,880 psychology is more accepted than others. 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,640 And in sports like golf and tennis and in rugby and and 110 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,720 motorsport, these sports have had good experience working with 111 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,640 people who are very, very keen to to develop the mindset and 112 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,680 other sports. And I have to say, sometimes 113 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,680 football could fall into this category. 114 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,240 There's still, at least in this country, a bit of skepticism 115 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,080 about just exactly how, let's just say the boys need to be 116 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,920 preparing themselves in the dressing room. 117 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,120 But I think over time and as we develop our understanding of 118 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,240 performance, probably football will change in the next 10 or 20 119 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,640 years as well. Yeah, I thought. 120 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,760 I mean, I think it's called too and and I would say that's 121 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,160 through my knowledge as a knowledge, I guess this 122 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,800 experience of listening to people like yourself, John, 123 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,840 rather than having the knowledge myself, but certainly a lesson 124 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,200 to experience like you. I think when I look at football, 125 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,520 there's so many and rugby protect, you know, there's lots 126 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,000 of different sports, I guess, but football's probably got the 127 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,840 potentially the biggest barriers in terms of, I may even just say 128 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,520 machoism, to be honest, where people think, well, that's got 129 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,240 nothing to do with the game. I need to be faster, I need to 130 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,240 be stronger, I need to be able to kick the ball. 131 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,640 But one of the observations I've I've had is, and it's a really 132 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,680 simple one, like someone's throwing goal and invariably 133 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,240 they kept the ball straight. They keep it a lot of times. 134 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,080 And I think to myself, I wonder what the last thing they think 135 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,880 about before they kick the ball is, because you would see that 136 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,760 in golf, right? If you're standing on the tee 137 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,800 and you patch her the bones with your driver, guess where your 138 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,440 drive is going to go out. I'm always been fascinated and 139 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,280 in a sport of football, it's that what's happening with 140 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,320 footballs as well, They're just seeing, well, they don't want to 141 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,760 have their last minute and effectively executing it. 142 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,720 Well, I think I can help you with that one because I have 143 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,360 actually worked in professional football with a couple of people 144 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,880 that have been in the striker role in the clubs. 145 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,920 And one of the arguments is as they get through one-on-one on 146 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,919 goal, what they tend to do is they revert back to some of the 147 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,520 instructions that have been drilled into them for years, 148 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,320 like hit the target. Now if you have in your mind hit 149 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,760 the target, you're programming yourself to hit the ball in the 150 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,920 middle of the goal, But of course the goalkeeper is usually 151 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,320 there. So one of the things you might 152 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:55,360 do if you work through on goal instead of being dominated by 153 00:08:55,560 --> 00:09:00,320 hit the target is to first of all try to relax and then 154 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,920 something have a a positive self talk instead of something like 155 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:12,440 pick your spot or look in place or pass it past the goalkeeper. 156 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:17,200 So I think having that better composure and having a positive 157 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,520 command that will allow you to pick the part and the goal that 158 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,880 gives you the best chance is miles better than hit the 159 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,160 target. But of course that's what people 160 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,480 still take it stay to this day. Another example that could be 161 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:36,120 let's keep a clean sheet. Well, that's actually quite 162 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,640 difficult to do because it can be, it can be that in the 1st 5 163 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,920 minutes of a game the referee might make a bad call, it's not 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,520 on VAR and award the penalty. And it might be that the 165 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,600 opposition have an expert penalty kick taker and they 166 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,440 might be able to head at exactly the right spot that no people 167 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,200 keeper can save and as a result you're 1 nil down after one 168 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,560 minute. So keeping a clean sheet then 169 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,720 becomes impossible through no fault of your own. 170 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:09,880 But listen, there'll be lots of examples where some what you 171 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,560 might call well meaning advice actually tends to be unhelpful. 172 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,640 Yeah, absolutely. And then John, when you started 173 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,040 working with, and I'll say are the performers, I know you work 174 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,880 with the general, general golfers and other people 175 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,760 performing sports. But if you look at elite 176 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,960 performers you've worked with, what surprises did you have when 177 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,440 you first started working with them? 178 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,280 What stood out to you? Well, what stood out to me was 179 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,480 how everybody as an individual and having worked in elite sport 180 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,200 for many years and having worked with lots of athletes in the 181 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,560 same sport, whether it be golf, tennis, motor racing or 182 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:54,440 whatever, motorsport, I would say what surprised me was the 183 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,360 amount of variation within people that were trying to do 184 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,880 the same thing. So well, let's talk about golf 185 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,600 because that's what this podcast is focusing on. 186 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:13,160 I found interesting that people trying to be elite performers, 187 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,560 either on the DP one or two or the USPGA tour, were very, very 188 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,560 different in the way that they went about it. 189 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,760 So some people would have a particular way of practicing and 190 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:29,720 playing and thinking that could be quite different from another 191 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,680 person that shared the same goal. 192 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,240 And I think what I found interesting was the challenge of 193 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,200 trying to help each person be the best version of themselves, 194 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:45,560 rather than having a mold or a particular framework that you 195 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:50,960 thought they should fit into. And do you think that a lot of 196 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,960 that at times has been driven by how coaching has been in golf 197 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Where and, and really glad to know that I think we're away 198 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,280 from a lot of that method coaching that you tend to see 199 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,520 like people saying, well, you must swing it this way or that 200 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,640 way. But do you think the move away 201 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,040 from that type of coaching is going to support as well, with 202 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,880 people approaching things from a psychological perspective in a 203 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,360 way that suits them versus just trying to cook a car from other 204 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,040 people? Well, obviously I can't speak 205 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,000 for coaches, and I suspect there were lots of coaches with 206 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,960 different philosophies and approaches, just as there are in 207 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,920 the world of applied sports psychology. 208 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,120 But certainly at the elite level, if you think about it in 209 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,920 this way, if somebody's coming to me as a sports psychologist 210 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,680 or as a golf coach already as a good player, perhaps at the DP 211 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:48,600 World Tour or perhaps looking to get onto the USPGA Tour, they 212 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,360 must be quite good at what they do to be at that level in the 213 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,760 1st place. So for me, it doesn't make a 214 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,600 great deal of sense making wholesale changes to somebody's 215 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,360 product, which is already quite good. 216 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,840 For me, it's more about trying to make fame, fame adjustments 217 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,040 to get the best out of the person and how they might apply 218 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,680 the Golf Club to cover the collision of the club facing the 219 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:16,360 ball to bring about the picture that they need, that will allow 220 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,520 the ball to go on its journey, that gives the best solution. 221 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:24,480 So even though you might think that sports psychology and 222 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,040 coaching do certain things, and I'm sure they do, it's very much 223 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,400 for me, an individual solution that we look to try and make the 224 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,120 person the best version of himself. 225 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,520 Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I mean, I've 226 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,600 certainly seen that in in coaching. 227 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,880 And when you're talking about the psychology related to golf, 228 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,760 it's got to be personal because that's how you feel ultimately 229 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,080 in the golf course, right? It's not how someone else feels 230 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,080 and they might have an idea what might be going through your 231 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,280 mind. But ultimately you've you've got 232 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,760 to try to be the one that describes that emotion that you 233 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,240 go through. And that's something I've been 234 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,280 talking. I've got another podcast as 235 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,800 well, John, with a guy called Colin Gray. 236 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,920 And we're both at a different handicap spectrum. 237 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,520 So Colin plays off 27, a playoff one. 238 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,960 But what's interesting is we've got a lot of commonalities about 239 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,080 some of the things that can go wrong. 240 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,880 And what I've been saying at Colin and I think we're both 241 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,120 recognizing as I maybe come across these challenges less 242 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,080 often than Colin does. But there's definitely the same 243 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,360 things that are going through my mind when when things go wrong, 244 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,680 when I'm getting emotional about things. 245 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Maybe I've had a good shot or maybe I've had a bad shot. 246 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,840 And then I respond in ways that can be really positive, respond 247 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:47,960 in ways that are really negative. 248 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:52,360 So do you see that vary a lot from people as well, even 249 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,840 whether it's elite or just regular golfers? 250 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,760 So what you've described isn't a surprise to me because although 251 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,280 you and your friend have different handicaps, you're 252 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,800 actually human beings and is a good chance you respond in the 253 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,120 same way. Unless of course you've been 254 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,280 taught or learned to do it differently. 255 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,640 And I often see the same reactions that you've mentioned 256 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,360 there with elite players. And what happens there is the 257 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,760 reaction that they have has an impact on their game. 258 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,800 But the only the the difference of course is they're playing at, 259 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,960 let's say, plus six of a handicap or, or they're about 260 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,320 if, if professionals had handicaps, of course. 261 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,280 But it's the same process because it's human beings that 262 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,720 we're talking about here. The only difference is the level 263 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,760 of performance is quite different based on physical, 264 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,800 technical, tactical experience and ability that's been built up 265 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,280 over time. And what do you think? 266 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,760 What do you notice about like on the elite side again, John and 267 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,840 and I wanted I mean, and you sort of saying that's a place to 268 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,760 everyone, but from the elite side, what kind of emotions do 269 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,920 come under the the top players minds? 270 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,080 What kind of thoughts go go through them when they're in the 271 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:14,720 here? But because I think it's really 272 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,000 super interesting for people, You know, a lot of golfers are 273 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,040 certain the players in a great space all the time, but it's far 274 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,400 from the truth, right? 100% It might look like when 275 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,640 you're watching somebody on the television that they're cool, 276 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,040 calm and collected, but there could be lots of things going on 277 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,560 inside the way that they're thinking at that moment in time. 278 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:41,120 And although elite athletes have the potential to have coping 279 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,360 mechanisms through their experience to do well, they're 280 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,640 still human beings and they will suffer the feelings of anxiety, 281 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,400 the worries, the doubts that they might have. 282 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,480 No human being is immune to stress or pressure. 283 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,920 But those people who have succeeded over time have learned 284 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,880 to cope. So even if you you read the best 285 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,880 players and in the sports that it's ever been, it's not that 286 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,680 they don't feel pressure because as a human being they will as 287 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,839 long as it's important to them. What you'll find is over time 288 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,000 they will have learned to cope in that pressure situation so 289 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,480 that rather than seeing as a threat, the sea is an 290 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,760 opportunity. If you've been enjoying the 291 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,480 show, please do remember to follow on your favorite podcast 292 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,040 platform and share it with a friend. 293 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:41,040 Now let's get back to the pod. They see as an opportunity to be 294 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,280 brave, to be calculating, to do their best, to showcase their 295 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,760 skills, and they're quite prepared to accept the results 296 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,040 as they fall. And that's that's really 297 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,800 interestingly, if you start work there, acceptance. 298 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,600 And I've a lesson to other podcasts, actually one with Carl 299 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,840 Morris, I'm sure you probably know really well and he talks 300 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,560 about acceptance so often it's frightening. 301 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,880 But what what does that actually mean from your perspective, 302 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,200 John? What is true acceptance when a 303 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,600 golfer's on the course and and it could be something good to 304 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,000 harm, so it could be something bad. 305 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,480 What does acceptance really mean? 306 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,600 I would say that acceptance means committing yourself to a 307 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,880 shot in a process, delivering all of your resources into 308 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,160 making that picture come alive. A man to judge yourself on the 309 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:42,000 effort. So listen, even the best people 310 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,720 are going to hit shots that are off target from time to time. 311 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,480 But if you have committed 100% to creating the collision 312 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,920 between the club face and the ball that will bring the picture 313 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,360 that you've seen in your mind to life to the expense of 314 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,360 everything else, then you must be satisfied with your effort as 315 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,280 a human being. So clearly people struggle with 316 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,040 that. If they focus on the result and 317 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,760 any number of things could get in the way, that produces 318 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,360 perhaps a poor result. But if you commit yourself to 319 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,920 the process, understand what that means, go through a pay 320 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,720 shot routine, visualize the start lane, have a good feel at 321 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,640 the setup, have a clear process about how the swing is going to 322 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,680 operate and unfold and how enough an UN unobstructed 323 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,480 delivery that club face. Then as long as you've done 324 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,200 that, you have to accept the fact that you've done everything 325 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,320 in your control. Now if you do all of that, the 326 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 chances are actually in your favour. 327 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,400 The chances are you will strike a more competitive shot with 328 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,800 perhaps less of a miss off target. 329 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,600 But irrespective of that, you need to judge yourself on what 330 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,440 you've done rather than the outcome of the shot. 331 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,160 Yeah, that's, that's really interesting. 332 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,560 I think it's so true that and again, coming back to even the 333 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,040 handicapped part, golfers who are maybe beginners versus 334 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,560 absolutely true elite right at the top of the game. 335 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,520 If you, what you're saying is if you judge it based on where they 336 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,760 got the ball goes, that's not necessarily going to produce a 337 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,720 great feeling because you, as you rightly point out, you could 338 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,800 have done everything, but something happens. 339 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,240 Something happens. It just means that the ball 340 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,400 doesn't doesn't land where you were looking for. 341 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,040 You may have been a yard out on a bounce, you may get a bad 342 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,840 bounce, a good bounce and and something different happens. 343 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,080 There's no point. And, and I guess judging 344 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,880 yourself right is ultimately what we tend to do is you judge 345 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,760 yourself and you're potentially you judge a character based on a 346 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,640 golf show, which is just ridiculous. 347 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,880 That's actually interesting for me because it's so very true. 348 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,360 Because when you hear some of the negative self talk on a 349 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,160 Saturday in the middle of the bounce game at your own club, 350 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,040 I'm pretty sure you ever heard that yourself. 351 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Where people are condemning themselves for the result that 352 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,160 they've had and how stupid there are to hit it in that particular 353 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,480 spot. Rather than actually thinking 354 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,920 more about perhaps choosing a different shot that reduced that 355 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,800 possibility and committing themselves to that process so 356 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,600 that they can survive mentally and continue on the game. 357 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,600 Yeah, it's funny, I played with a guy last year and I wouldn't 358 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,640 even say the course. It's not, I live in England. 359 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,920 No, it's not that. Yeah, I was back up in Scotland, 360 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,480 but I'm not going to say what course I was. 361 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,920 I was playing a competition and I met this guy in the first T 362 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,320 and and honestly has his drive kind of OK done the right hand 363 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,440 side. He's on the rough tries to hurt, 364 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,040 I think A5 word or something out that off doesn't know how to 365 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,240 agree goes in the Dutch. I was we would call it a reborn 366 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,640 goes in the barn. Guess I had to say again goes in 367 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,360 the next barn. Honestly made about 12 in the 368 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:06,640 first door. But the part that really made me 369 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,800 laugh, and I don't mean that his score was when he had the second 370 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,280 shot and the barn. He was going mental himself and 371 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,320 I'm like, you've only just had you're saying short and he's 372 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,400 like buried himself all the way down the rough trudging towards 373 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,400 the Dutch. That was hilarious. 374 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,920 And I kind of reflected on, I thought, God, I'm sure I've done 375 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,840 that plenty of times myself at different parts their owns, but 376 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:32,680 very rarely, thankfully the first hall and they say short of 377 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,040 the day. Well, that's good advice because 378 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,760 when when you work at the top level, there are the players 379 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,720 there are actually trying to do the same thing. 380 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,240 They're trying to stay in the game for as long as they can. 381 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:52,280 So you can't win an event in round one or round two, but you 382 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,920 can play yourself out of it. So quite often the top players 383 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,160 will try to find a position where they make the cut 384 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,200 comfortably without taking too many risks. 385 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,000 And then as you've heard people referring to this Saturday as 386 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,280 moving day, and then if you can continue the momentum such that 387 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,680 you're in the conversation with a few holes to go. 388 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,480 Your job is to deliver your best shots. 389 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,120 And your job is to see where the cards fall and then be satisfied 390 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:25,960 with your effort, knowing that if the cards fall your way, you 391 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,880 might just step over that line. Yeah, and, and I think you 392 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,160 mentioned John will go back and touch on it. 393 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,520 You've talked about how people can find ways to cope when 394 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,880 they're feeling emotional, they're feeling stressed, 395 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,320 they're feeling nervous. I mean, what are some of those 396 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,560 techniques I think you've touched on like pretty short 397 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,120 routine, or should I say pretty short, Maybe preparation is the 398 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,280 way you put it. What kind of things can people 399 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,720 and their own golf do practically to help themselves 400 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,120 through those times where they do feel nervous, where they do 401 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,120 feel anxious, they've no good positive thoughts when they're 402 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:04,160 standing over the ball. So people often have negative 403 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,360 thoughts over the ball when they feel uncertain about the shot 404 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,320 that they're trying to make. And that could be because 405 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,200 there's potential huge consequences at the end of it, 406 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,440 or it could be a difficult shot. So one of the things that we're 407 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,360 making work on is we first of all, get people being mindful of 408 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,440 the hazards and they work out the area of the golf course and 409 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,960 the target that they think would be a greater margin for error. 410 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,640 So in other words, they might pick a slightly easier shot to 411 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,400 execute because that's one way to reduce the anxiety levels. 412 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,440 Then after that, they might try to remember a few times where 413 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,160 they've had a particular shot like that in the past that had a 414 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,560 successful outcome. They might just try to reflect 415 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,960 on the swing that they've made and what it felt like as they 416 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,760 were delivering the club base on the ball. 417 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,040 And then after that, they probably have a a clear picture 418 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,240 of the start lane and the shape, the eye that is the natural 419 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,360 shape or the shape they're trying to produce. 420 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,720 And they probably have a couple of keywords that they said to 421 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,640 themself about the importance of staying committed to the shot. 422 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,480 And then when the swing unfolds and they've made contact and 423 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,440 they've given it full commitment to be mindful of the fact that 424 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,040 they will accept whatever they take because they've given it 425 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,760 their best effort. So over those few simple 426 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,640 instructions, what you're doing is you're increasing the 427 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,200 likelihood that a reasonable shot will emerge. 428 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,280 And if you do that, you reduce the destructive shot, which 429 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,360 tends to trigger the poor emotionality that then colours 430 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,440 the rest of the game. Yeah. 431 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,800 And what I'd love to you talk about, John, is I think what 432 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,280 people expect has nearly become on a podcast like that's sort of 433 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,640 another one. There's there's a few sort of 434 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,880 golf you can a mental approach to golf podcasts out there. 435 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,000 And obviously my own podcast is more generic. 436 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,440 But I think what can happen is that people think they'll join a 437 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,000 podcast, there wasn't, and they'll take away us advice 438 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,160 about maybe breathing, maybe pretty short routine, some of 439 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,840 the points you've mentioned, and they'll give it a bit of a go, 440 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,440 maybe in a medal. And then it all falls apart and 441 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,840 they go, ah, it's never going to work. 442 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:33,800 So in your experience to bed those practices and how long 443 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,040 does it typically take your average golfer and then maybe an 444 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,000 elite golfer to bed and the practice and not necessarily get 445 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,920 it right every time because that's probably impossible, but 446 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,200 to get it right more often than not, how long would it take 447 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,120 typically? So very good question and it 448 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:54,560 depends on a number of factors. It will depend on how strong 449 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,200 your existing habits are. So if you've got strong negative 450 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,680 habits at the moment, that's obviously going to take a little 451 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,240 bit longer to change those habits and the habits that you 452 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,360 would prefer. The next thing that I would say 453 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,120 is it will depend on your commitment and the amount of 454 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,920 time to practice thinking in the way that you prefer. 455 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320 So if you think about it, if somebody was a coach and said, 456 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,280 look, I think we really need to maybe be changing this part of 457 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,400 your technique. It might be with a plane of the 458 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,520 swing, it might be a great change set up. 459 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,040 It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that that may take some 460 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,880 weeks, months, possibly even years to may be changed in a way 461 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,280 that was seen a noticeable improvement. 462 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,600 But when you think about it, people may have been thinking 463 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,760 negatively that entire life. So it could actually take quite 464 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,760 a bit of time. So the research on this would 465 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:57,000 suggest that you're looking at probably 12 to 18 months before 466 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,680 you can see a statistical improvement, a measurable 467 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,520 difference and some of the some of the thinking that you might 468 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,520 want. Now bear in mind, to have a 469 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,240 significant difference or a measurable difference, that's 470 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,640 going to be quite difficult because those people that study 471 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,280 statistics will know that they have a significant difference. 472 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,200 In a test of that sort, you've got to produce something that 473 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,480 can be measured over time and have reasonable level of 474 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,680 confidence. What I need to tell you is quite 475 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,720 often elite players are looking for differences that are 476 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:40,120 actually much smaller than what would be termed statistically 477 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,880 significant. So the bottom line to the 478 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,280 question is, if you're looking for certainty, you are looking 479 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:53,840 at probably 18 months or so on average to make measurable 480 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,280 differences. But if you're looking for grass 481 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,080 roots, if you're looking for green shoots of recovery, you 482 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,800 should be able to see these over a few weeks and months. 483 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,880 And as long as you grasp those green shoots and choose that 484 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,320 direction to travel in, you're more likely to be on the path 485 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,120 for the year or 18 months. And the great thing we have 486 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,560 about golf, of course, is unlike gymnastics or swimming, the 487 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,800 career can be quite lengthy. So you can be 30-40, fifty, 488 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,760 6070. In fact, I believe you had a 489 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,280 senior golfer on your podcast from West Shore not long ago who 490 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,000 is an ex leg example of somebody who plays a high level for 491 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,760 decades. So the truth is that in a game 492 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,080 like golf, there's usually no shortage of time. 493 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,080 Yeah, and John Johnson shot their best friend of his life 494 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,480 when he was 68 short 61. I mean, that's incredible, isn't 495 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,960 it? Absolutely incredible, but 496 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,360 unsurprising because of the features of the game of golf and 497 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,520 the way that if you stay reasonably fit and healthy then 498 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,160 and you've got time to practice particularly short game, then 499 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,480 there's no reason why you can't see the scores coming down. 500 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,600 And then Johnny, I think what's really interestingly, I mean you 501 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,160 are and I want to ask you some questions about your own golf. 502 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:23,760 You're a very, very good golfer yourself, but home, and this is 503 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,120 no quantifiable, try and ask a better question. 504 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,840 If you looked at let's say your average club golfer who's 505 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,440 probably a 15 to 20 handicap, they'll probably want to 506 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,280 improve, they want to get better versus let's say like A5 507 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,320 handicap. Is there some, and this is a 508 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,960 generalism obviously, but is there some key things that are 509 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,880 most likely different between those two golfers? 510 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,000 They might be really similar physically. 511 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,960 They might hit the ball generally very similar, but one 512 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,400 is, you know, all 1520 handicap, another one's all five. 513 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,680 What strides do you think the 500 coppers most likely made? 514 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,720 As well as technique but from a mindset perspective? 515 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,680 Well, I think the five handicapper probable has more 516 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,320 experience and course management. 517 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,920 Don't even rule that out. And obviously it's a 518 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,040 hypothetical question and knowing what I've said about 519 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,680 individuality, again, I would be guessing quite a bit here. 520 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,200 But what I would say is that it's the same issues that human 521 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,600 beings have such that they lose focus or they lose 522 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,080 concentration. With A15 handicapper, that's 523 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,600 going to produce a worse shot. A5 handicapper will still 524 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,080 produce a bad shot. Even if an elite player or a two 525 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,440 player has a poor focus, that's going to produce a slightly 526 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,600 poorer swing for them, which for them would give them a poorer 527 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,680 shot because obviously that's the same process that we go 528 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,480 through as human beings. It's just that the levels are 529 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,760 different and an off centre strike for A2 pool might take 530 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,120 the ball 25 yards off target. An off centre strike and a poor 531 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,520 swing for the five handicapper might take the ball 152030 hours 532 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,280 off target. Also, it's going to be a lot 533 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,360 shorter. The 15 handicapper can have a 534 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,520 catastrophe where they might hit the ball 20 meters. 535 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,160 Yeah, yeah, and then and then it comes back to what's the 536 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,720 reaction to that, right. And typically and certainly my 537 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,160 own game is of goal better. It doesn't happen all the time. 538 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,720 But if I look back at when I was a junior and I think about some 539 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,600 of the the mad crazy rounds of hard and even still, you know, 540 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,760 that harms these days, I'm sure. But like it's if I'm gonna take 541 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,000 situation or a poor situation, I probably choose the better short 542 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,720 more often, though, than I used to. 543 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,200 And it's not about doing it all the time, right. 544 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,120 That is actually just doing it more often than perhaps you 545 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,320 would have in the past. And that should help you get 546 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:06,920 forward. Like, for example, say you've 547 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,040 whited the trees. You've not got a great lie. 548 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,560 You've not really got a great line Beagle. 549 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,640 Oh, do you know what, I can get a four iron out here. 550 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,440 But actually, as I've got more experienced, as you said in the 551 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,120 game, think a little bit more clearly, more often they'll go, 552 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,960 do you know what? I need to just get an E iron 553 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,600 bunt to decide. That'll leave me something to 554 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,760 the green, get up near the green. 555 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,080 I've got a good chance of chopping a pot even for myself. 556 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,040 So I think that it's definitely an evolution for people. 557 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,000 But to me it's something that everyone can definitely put in 558 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,000 place regardless of handicappers. 559 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,520 You can try assess how you're thinking and how you're 560 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,240 approaching the emotions that are attached to a good or bad 561 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,760 shot, and certainly look at ways you can improve and take the 562 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,880 right choice and the right decision more often in the 563 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,560 future. I think over time you you'll 564 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,360 learn to do that and some people are faster learners and others 565 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,640 of course. But when you even watch the top 566 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,280 players and they taught me when we talked about the see The 567 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,960 Players Championship last night, even the best players are going 568 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,440 to make mistakes. That's important that you don't 569 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,560 follow one mistake with another one and making a boogie that 570 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,800 happens, you move on and you accept that, you swallow it. 571 00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,719 But if you make a double, that slows you down and it means that 572 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,719 you've followed one mistake with another, which probably means 573 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,080 that perhaps decision making or clarity. 574 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:41,239 I thought at that time maybe something to look at, but of 575 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,679 course you'd need to probably speak to each person 576 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,719 individually to see what they were doing at the time because 577 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,120 not all double S happen from multiple mistakes, but most of 578 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,159 them do. Yeah. 579 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,120 And it's interesting, John, like I've been really deflecting us a 580 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,000 lot recently with the conversations of hard to call 581 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,760 and especially because more one, we're doing this other podcast 582 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,000 together, but also we're both trying to improve our own golf. 583 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:15,200 And to me, as amazing when I reflect back and when I try to 584 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,960 be in the moment now when I'm playing, even in a bounce game, 585 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,280 because I try to make my the majority of my practice on the 586 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,560 course. And when I practice, I do as 587 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,080 much as possible under competition conditions. 588 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,560 And the one that's obviously hard. 589 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,440 But in the summer, I can do it. But let's say I do make a silly 590 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,040 ball game. I must agree with a wedge can't 591 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,760 get up and down. I go the next tee invariably 592 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,880 almost every time In the past, especially when I was younger, 593 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,840 my next thought would be right and he smashed a chaifed in here 594 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,240 and he had an amazing saying, sure. 595 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:55,920 And he had it close. I need to make birthday. 596 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,160 I needed us. I need to do that. 597 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,200 Whereas what I'm really looking to do now is I come off that 598 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,880 green, get my frustration out the way. 599 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,000 So I might have to swear word to myself, you know, I'm still 600 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,040 annoyed, but by the time I get to tea, I'm like, right, what is 601 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,480 the shot I need to hurt versus the drivers coming straight and 602 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,320 I'm going to try and smash it down the middle. 603 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,240 So is that something you think that people can be more aware of 604 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,520 in their game and and actually make good difference on quite 605 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,400 quickly? Well, I think that's something 606 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,040 to to work on. It sounds like you've done the 607 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,400 progress there. One of the things I'd say is if 608 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,840 somebody makes a bogey and say, well, I'm good enough to try and 609 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,880 make up for that bogey, you can't make up for something 610 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,640 that's happened because if you didn't have the boogie and you 611 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,480 had the body, you'd be one shot better. 612 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,960 So anybody that thinks along those lines is getting tied into 613 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,320 the scoring we're thinking rather than the performance 614 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,120 we're thinking. So how you've described handling 615 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,560 maybe a soft boogie, perhaps the weight in your hand that you 616 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,360 might not expect, probably a good thing. 617 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,960 And I would definitely think that most people should have a 618 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,520 plan for how they cope with frustration and disappointment, 619 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,120 where what they think is an easy short, an easy haul hasn't come 620 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,680 down that way. It's about what you do 621 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,240 afterwards rather than ruminating on the mistake. 622 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,600 Yes, amazing. Totally. 623 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,920 Last year I done it done experience on the last two on a 624 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,440 competition where I made a name on a par 5. 625 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,000 And what I found fascinating was I was telling someone a story 626 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,560 about my junior days where I'd launched A5 wood into the 627 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,520 railway and a few other things at times without club, including 628 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,320 stopping it. And I was like you've got to be 629 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,200 kidding me. I've done exactly the same thing 630 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,520 as I did when I was a junior where I've had a bad shot and 631 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,440 the immediate thing is I'm just going to hit the next one better 632 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:58,840 versus just really stopping and saying we are saying that was a 633 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,680 really bad shot. Are you actually trying to have 634 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,040 the right shot here? Have you got the right club out? 635 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,880 So have you seen that with players where you know they make 636 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,960 a bad mistake and they go, look, I'm just doing the wrong thing 637 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,440 here and they just check out, stop, come back and then say, 638 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,040 right, I'm going to try something different versus I 639 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,240 just need that show perfectly. Well, I think that's where they 640 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,400 want to get to. I think once you've made a 641 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,840 mistake, you want to be clear enough thinking about 642 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,120 understanding why the mistake happened. 643 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,600 So yeah, you can get your swing swing on video and yet you can 644 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,240 see the club pace was open, yet you can see you've started on 645 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,680 the right and it's gone fade and high and slice and out of bones. 646 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,000 And that's fine. But what's more important is to 647 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,440 think, well, what was I thinking about? 648 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,360 The tame disrupted the rhythm and the flow of that swing. 649 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,600 And if you weren't sure that it was the right shot, then that 650 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,040 uncertainty can quite easily manifest itself into the poor 651 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,800 swing. So what that means is it's not 652 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,000 necessarily a technical issue, it's the fact that the 653 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,280 preparation and thinking beforehand didn't put you in the 654 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,680 right place to allow the good swing to unfold. 655 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,960 Yeah. And it's fascinating, John, if 656 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,240 you think about it, and I'm sure you've been in this situation, 657 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,160 sometimes you'll you'll be in a short and you could be in a 658 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,760 really good position score wise, whatever that means for you 659 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,160 personally. Everybody's definite in that 660 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,160 regard, of course, with what kind of scores they think they 661 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,560 might be wanting to score. But it's incredible to me that 662 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,800 sometimes you're coming down the last two or three holes and 663 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,080 you're on an absolute charge and nothing gets in the way and you 664 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,600 close it and you don't even think about it. 665 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,080 And then other times when you might not even be on as good a 666 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,400 score, there's something your brain is just tracking a set of 667 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,840 emotions that make you doubtful or you want the outcome so much 668 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,520 or whatever that is. And it just gets in the way. 669 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,040 It's incredible how that can come. 670 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,280 And you don't even expect her. Well, I think for most people it 671 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,720 is related to outcome. So if you're on a good score, if 672 00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:05,000 you might be two or three under par, or you could be two or 673 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,320 three over par, if you're a higher handicap is still a 674 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,920 brilliant score for you. And you want to somehow just get 675 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:16,000 over the line. So that consequence then gives 676 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,320 you a fear of what happens if you don't. 677 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,520 And then what then the reaction would be to try to make extra 678 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,880 special sure or to think about the technique that's going to 679 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,120 get you there and you've actually disrupted the flow that 680 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,360 you go through to deliver the performance that you have up to 681 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:40,400 that moment. So the solution there is to try 682 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,840 wherever possible to acknowledge the fact that you're doing well 683 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,400 and to enjoy the fact that you're there, but also to think, 684 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,480 well, if I am enjoying it so much and a little bit anxious 685 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,960 that I want to get over the line here with a good score and not 686 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,200 threw it away, then I just need to be pick my shots carefully 687 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,920 and remind myself that my job is to go through all of my same 688 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,520 processes. Commit perhaps to an easier shot 689 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,520 such that I can function effectively and it gives me the 690 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,240 best chance of getting over that line I'm so desperately keen to 691 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,880 do. Absolutely. 692 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,440 So then, John, we've not really talked about your own golf. 693 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,320 What role does golf play for you now in your life? 694 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:29,520 So I love the game of golf. I find it an amazing challenge. 695 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,160 And just because I'm a sport psychologist doesn't mean that I 696 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,360 always get everything right. From a mental point of view. 697 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,680 Sometimes it can be quite frustrating actually, knowing 698 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,800 what I should be doing. But as a human being, suffer in 699 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,120 the field case everybody has, you know, you don't always get 700 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,680 it right. I suppose the advantage I'd 701 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,040 probably have is I know what I should be doing. 702 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,600 And if I can find a way to carry that out, it probably gives me a 703 00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:02,520 good chance of doing well and know that I've in private 704 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,160 practice and I can please myself a little bit more. 705 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,560 With the time that I've got, I can practice a little bit more. 706 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,320 I can work on the areas again that I don't think are good 707 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,720 enough for me. And I can get great pleasure 708 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,840 trying to get better at what I do. 709 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:20,000 Brilliant. And what handicap are you 710 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,400 playing off these days, John? So I'm currently plus one at the 711 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,880 moment, but my handicap used to be lower than that and over the 712 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,280 last couple of years I haven't played as well as a mate. 713 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,600 So now that I've got a bit more time to practice, I'm hoping 714 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,560 that I can start to play a little bit more of the good 715 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,600 shots and I'm capable of. I just need to try and get them 716 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,040 all together working in the tournaments that matter. 717 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,320 And what kind of competitions are you going to be playing on 718 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,120 in the future? So over the last few years I've 719 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:58,200 played in the Scottish seniors events and the British senior 720 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,360 events and really enjoy doing that. 721 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,440 It's a good community, a good community of good players, 722 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,040 people that are keen to do well. You get to some good golf 723 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:14,960 courses and and it's always a great challenge to scoot as low 724 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,160 as you can on some of the best courses in the country. 725 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,280 So I'll probably be playing in the Scottish Series and then I 726 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,880 might play in some events further afield as well. 727 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,640 Oh, wait. And inside the Scottish Seniors 728 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,880 Golf Society. That's right. 729 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,440 The first event is at Barassi and I think the 20th and 21st of 730 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,760 April. And then there are other events 731 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,960 right the way through the season, there's an order I made 732 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,440 it to play for and if you're lucky enough to do well and that 733 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,080 you may even play in the European Championship team or in 734 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,280 the Home Internationals team. And I need to ask a question, 735 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,840 John, have you played any of those competitions yourself? 736 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,200 Yeah, I've played in the European Championship in Estonia 737 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,960 a couple of years ago and I've played twice in the home 738 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,800 internationals for Scotland as a senior. 739 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,320 Fantastic. So what were those experiences 740 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,040 like? Unforgettable. 741 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:16,480 The first one was down in Wales where we had the the men's home 742 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,640 internationals, the women's home internationals and they had a 743 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,840 joint home internationals where they combined the points and 744 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,040 Scotland won the men's and they won the joint that year, which 745 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,800 was a great event and something everybody that played for 746 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,840 Scotland was really proud of. And that same year I played at 747 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,080 an Estonian talent for Scotland and we qualify for the A flight. 748 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,760 We had a couple of great results and we just lost out very 749 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:50,920 narrowly to England and our group and our, I think it was a 750 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,360 semi final and then in the bronze medal playoff match we 751 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,440 came up against an Irish team that was really strong. 752 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,040 And so but it was good to get to the latter stages of that. 753 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,960 And then a couple of years ago I played at Castle Rock, an 754 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,000 island, and that was a beautiful venue and that took place in 755 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:17,280 September and amazingly the weather was absolutely perfect. 756 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,800 I can just remember it being like a summer's day. 757 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,600 We were in T-shirts, there's not a cloud in the sky, and it was 758 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:29,680 just a great course and a great event played and those matches 759 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,640 there against some really, really good players and at the 760 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,120 time of my life. Fantastic. 761 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:38,680 Yeah. And I mean, for people looking 762 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,400 for information, I think there's there's information on the 763 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,360 Scottish golf website that takes you to the Scottish Seniors Golf 764 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,480 Society web pages as well. And I mean for me it was a 765 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,000 really easy process. I am going to qualify 766 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,600 effectively as a junior for that category in the summer, John, so 767 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,120 I'll be looking to join you. I think the first event I can 768 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,120 play is that I think it's Erskine at the end of July. 769 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,000 So looking forward to that. But it's a really, really great 770 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,440 series. There's lots of brilliant 771 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,880 competitions as you say, and a lot of really good golfers as 772 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,040 well. And I think the handicap limits 773 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,760 about 10 for and on the event. So it's a real good mix of 774 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,720 different guys and and players have been around the Scottish 775 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:23,920 circuit for a long time. Listen, I've really enjoyed 776 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,440 playing the Scottish Seniors golf. 777 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,560 When I first qualified many years ago now, I was a little 778 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,800 bit skeptical, thinking it was going to be old guys playing 779 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,480 Tuesday and a Thursday. And I've got a rude awakening 780 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,520 indeed. There was some really, really 781 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,520 good players there that took it seriously, practiced hard, 782 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,480 trained hard, wanted to get better, took lessons, and there 783 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,720 was a really, really good group of good players and 1, you know, 784 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,920 group that I've been pleased to be part of and to join in. 785 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,080 And I think also I've enjoyed the fact that anybody who does a 786 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:02,040 good score gets congratulated by everybody in that community. 787 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,920 And I certainly felt a warmth and a togetherness in that 788 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,880 group. That's something I didn't always 789 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,640 feel when I was grown up, let's say at boys or at men's level 790 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,040 where everybody was desperate to do well. 791 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,280 Everybody in seniors is desperate to do well, but I 792 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,920 think when people get a bit older, they get appreciative of 793 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,240 other people's effort as well and you can celebrate the 794 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,960 achievement some of your friends in a way that perhaps you didn't 795 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,480 when you were younger. Yeah, it's almost like goodbye 796 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,800 to the football game, John. It's for that classic thing 797 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,600 between the two managers or the players. 798 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,080 They hated each other for 30 years and then they retire for 799 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,200 they gave them their best pals. It's incredible. 800 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,080 Well, it's certainly a good series of events and anybody who 801 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,320 is in that age group and wants to experience it, I would 802 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,480 certainly recommend that they threw their hat into the ring. 803 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,560 Absolutely. And then for yourself, John, I 804 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,120 mean, you've gone through this, that's pursuit in your life, 805 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,680 helping people. What's those challenges you and 806 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,080 the golf course? What things do you feel that you 807 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,800 might still struggle with your maybe it's your focus or 808 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,280 whatever. What kind of things still come 809 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:13,320 up as challenges for yourself? So in terms of my own game, it's 810 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,280 always a challenge to get better at short game. 811 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,160 And my career I've worked with some really good players and 812 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,440 coaches and I've always found that with all of the amateurs 813 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,960 that I know, the closer they get to the whole, the worse they are 814 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,160 in comparison to the best players in the world. 815 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,840 So I I would like to sure I'd like to hit the ball far further 816 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,040 and more consistently if I could. 817 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,320 I would definitely like to control the ball flight and the 818 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:48,520 shapes are the better. I would 100% like to be better 819 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,760 at short game, chipping, punker play. 820 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,800 I would 100% like to be better at putting and all of the 821 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,320 idiosyncrasies and skills that you need to be a top player over 822 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,000 time. And personally, I've had a 823 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,400 massive sense of satisfaction when you work hard at a 824 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,320 particular skill and you see improvement. 825 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,000 And, and I'm happy to say that I think I've done that on some 826 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,800 parts of the game. But there are so many parts of 827 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,800 this game that you know I could be another 20 or 30 years, God 828 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,360 willing, and I'll still be trying to get better at them. 829 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,960 Yeah, absolutely. So then just on that note, what 830 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,200 does a satisfying render golf look look like for you, John? 831 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:35,040 So a satisfying render golf for me is 1, where most of the time 832 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:40,640 or as many times as I can, I picked the right shot and I've 833 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,880 committed fully to that process. And when I've struck the ball, 834 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,920 the image of the shot that comes off the club face is pretty 835 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,600 close to the image that I had pictured prior to setting up to 836 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,360 the shots. In other words, what I try to do 837 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,640 is I make the picture of the shot come to life. 838 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,920 So you would try to make the reality match the mentality of 839 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,560 the short picture. And for me, satisfaction comes 840 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,880 when you picture a shot that you think you want to play. 841 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,240 You put all your resources into it and in for some reason the 842 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,800 shot comes out just as you'd imagined. 843 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,600 So that to me is absolute satisfaction. 844 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,080 That gives me a huge sense of achievement. 845 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,760 So a satisfying round of golf would be 1 where I've managed to 846 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,080 do that a few times. But I went and then just to drop 847 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:40,880 up here, John, what is sport and in this case golf, but sport in 848 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,960 general, because you worked with a lot of different types of 849 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:44,840 athletes, what's that taught you about people? 850 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,520 Oh, I think when it comes to elite sport particularly, that 851 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,360 applies across the board. If you sign up to be connected 852 00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:01,640 to sport, you should expect sport to have highs and lows, to 853 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,520 give you good times and to give you challenging times. 854 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,880 And I think you need to learn to embrace both. 855 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:14,960 And my closing comment would be absolutely enjoy the highs, but 856 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,160 learn from the lows so that your next high will happen sooner and 857 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,240 perhaps last longer than the last one did. 858 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,360 Austin, John, thanks so much for coming on. 859 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,880 It's been a real pleasure to get to meet you and also to have you 860 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,600 on the show. I really appreciate it and look 861 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,400 forward to seeing you in August or July. 862 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,120 I think it's for that Erskine event. 863 00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:37,320 Yes, Sir, I'm sure you'll do well. 864 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,960 Thank you very much for having me on. 865 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,440 No problem. Thank you. 866 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,440 I'd like to thank. John Mathers for his time and 867 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,960 for sharing such an honest and insightful look at the mental 868 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,200 side of the game. I genuinely took away a lot from 869 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,920 that conversation. I hope you did too. 870 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,000 If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to follow subscribe 871 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,400 whatever you're listening. And if you know someone who 872 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,280 struggles with a mental game, whether a beginner or seasoned 873 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,600 competitor, send us their way. It may just make a difference to 874 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,600 the golf. You can find the show on 875 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,480 Instagram at Linkedby Golf podcast for future episode clips 876 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,640 and insights. And if you have a moment to 877 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,320 leave a review, it really does help us reach more golfers just 878 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,360 like you. I'm Ross McGuire. 879 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,240 Thanks for listening. Loman Golf Tours have helped 880 00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:24,200 thousands of guests build bespoke golf trips to create a 881 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,760 magical experience, travel and style. 882 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,680 Whether executive chauffeur travel, whether it's golf on a 883 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,600 major championship venue or one of our hidden gems, 5 star 884 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,200 accommodation or a boutique bed and breakfast, or is it whiskey 885 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,840 tasting on a private boat, Loman Golf Tours are here to help 886 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,760 build the tour of a lifetime. Whether you're celebrating a 887 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,480 special occasion or taking it off your bucket list, embark on 888 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,080 a trip that you'll remember forever. 889 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,920 Visit www.lomangolftours.com.