1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:04,880 Welcome back to Line By. Golf. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,040 The Podcast. Exploring the journeys of people 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,720 linked by the game. I'm your host Ross McGuire and 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,680 today's episode is a special one as I'm joined by Andrew Murray, 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,280 European Tour winner, broadcaster and someone who's 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,600 seen the game from every angle we talk about. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,600 It's one of the European Open, the reality of life on Tour and 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,400 the journey it took him to get there from Monday qualifying to 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,280 competing alongside the likes of Seve, Faldo, Wisdom and Lyle. 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,720 But more than that, this is about perspective. 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,080 His relationship with golf has evolved over time and what the 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,840 game really gives you beyond results. 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:41,640 Let's get over to Andrew. Andrew Murray, thanks for 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,320 joining the podcast. I really appreciate it. 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,600 Great to see you. Well, it's really good to see 16 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,240 you and and meet you and always a pleasure. 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,400 I love talking about golf, so crack on. 18 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,320 Yeah, I'm going to read out some names. 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,560 Andrew. I'm going to start with Sandy 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:01,520 Lyle, David Ferty, Roger Davis, Ross Drummond, Russell Clayton, 21 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,680 Ian Wisnam, Craig Parry, Sam Torrance, Frank Noble though, 22 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:09,440 and that was 9 names out of the top ten in the Panasonic 23 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,840 European Open and right at the top was you. 24 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,200 So how do you feel when you think back to that day or that 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:16,840 week? Of course it was a full week, 26 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,240 but what do you what memories come back for when you? 27 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,640 Think about it. Now listen and it gives me 28 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,800 goosebumps. For a start and and following 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,320 off, I'm in my study recording this with you and I'm surrounded 30 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,240 by one massive picture which Walton Heath gave me of me 31 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,760 holding the winning put, which of the ball just about to go in 32 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,760 the hole from 2 and a bit feet I suppose. 33 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,560 So it's always listen. It's never far away from me 34 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,440 really. I've got very fond memories. 35 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,960 I can remember the six line hit into the last 176 to the flag, 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,240 183 to the back of the green. You know, I can remember all 37 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,640 those details and I remember hitting it. 38 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,680 I remember pulling it a little bit, but not much. 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,600 And it was dead by guy to 12 feet or something. 40 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,800 So yeah, it was, it was a special week and it's a special 41 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,680 golf course and it was a special event way back. 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,880 It was only probably third in the European Tour to the to the 43 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,480 PGA in the open, European Masters in the European Open 44 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,640 held A5 year exemption on the tour in those days. 45 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,440 And so it was, yeah, it was a big tournament. 46 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,600 It was a big money tournament. It was a brave, prestigious 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,640 tournament, always had a fantastic field, always had a 48 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,760 great sponsor. We alternated between Walton 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,480 Heath one year and Sunningdale the next. 50 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,560 So there's probably not too better venues in inland venues 51 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,240 in the in the country than those two. 52 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,480 So it was, it was a pretty, pretty big deal. 53 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:45,920 Yeah. Obviously massive deal for me 54 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:50,480 obviously, but it was a bit of a but I was AI was a yeah. 55 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,040 I was a decent average saw player. 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,480 I was about. You were flushing in what the 57 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,440 phase that I saw and it was you've got that brilliant 58 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,200 footage on your website linked to YouTube and it's just awesome 59 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,000 to hear Peter Alice and he's got these little quaps and yeah, and 60 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,960 he actually talks about your last shot where he you've said 61 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,400 you pulled a low, but I mean, you're actually what, 10 feet to 62 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,360 the left of the flag, but I think another foot left and it 63 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,920 was in real danger. So for sure though it take on at 64 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,160 the end. Yeah, and and in true for us, it 65 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,080 was about 3 yards from the bunker on the pitch and it looks 66 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,240 like he do like it was about a foot away and it wasn't really 67 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,760 but and so it was no doubt a bit of a pull, but it was a pretty 68 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,320 flushed pull. So wind off the right. 69 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,880 It was suited my game really. It was yeah, it was a it was a 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,360 proper shot, proper T-shirt as well. 71 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:44,120 I remember not in the T-shirt and it just passed Frank Nobleo, 72 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,960 who was a really good player. He's he was a winner on tour and 73 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,520 top 10 or 20 player in those days as well. 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,520 So I remember hitting it past him off on the five ironing. 75 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,240 I had 6 ironing. So it was, yeah, can remember 76 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,280 like it was yesterday almost. And. 77 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,800 Then during the tournament, when did you realize you might 78 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,920 actually won? When did you get to that point? 79 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,320 Or did it never really come to your? 80 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,800 Mind you know, you know, I LED after the one. 81 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,920 I think I was tied the lead after one round with Peter 82 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,560 Fowler. I think I shot really nice 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,959 second round early in the morning at two or three, three 84 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:25,960 puts for 68 and then really difficult conditions Saturday. 85 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,720 So I was leading after two, I was leading after three, I was 5 86 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,200 clear with three to play in the last round. 87 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,840 In the third round made a bit of a dodgy finish and so I was 88 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,600 leading by two or three I think in the going into the final 89 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,760 round and never thought about winning at all. 90 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:42,560 Genuinely. I was trying to pull it out of 91 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:48,040 my mind and I remember still on the 16th T and I hit it was my 92 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,440 honour. I was one in front with five to 93 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,800 play, one in front with four to play, one in front with three to 94 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,480 play. And I had a beautiful tee shot 95 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,760 down 16. And I remember putting the club 96 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,280 back in the bag and looking at Frank Nobleau thinking. 97 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:03,920 And I'd seen a scoreboard on the previous screen and said, I 98 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,840 remember saying to myself, right, it's between me and you. 99 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:11,240 And that was the first time I was, I'd given it any, any sort 100 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,840 of thought. We both bovied 715 because it 101 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,320 was 16. Sorry, because it was a really 102 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,000 difficult hole, unreachable almost into the wind. 103 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,600 And then I played 17th beautifully, really rock solid 104 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,880 path 3. And then two nice shots into the 105 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,440 into the last and he was 50 feet and I was about 12. 106 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,880 So yeah, I didn't genuinely didn't think I was going to win 107 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,040 until he'd missed the 50 footer. And then I remember my caddy 108 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,200 saying to me then you've got 2 foot 2 puts for it. 109 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,240 I said I've sworn under my breath slightly at him and said 110 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,120 yeah, I know that. And and then I managed it 2 1/2 111 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,160 feet past. It sort of went off in my hands 112 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,080 a bit really. But I lost the slope a bit 113 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,960 really because I was down in the bunker looking at the line and I 114 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,120 was still trying to hold the putt. 115 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:59,440 I mean I've never when did you last try and like it up from 12 116 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:00,360 feet? Probably never. 117 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,400 So it was not the sort of thing you do is it? 118 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,920 So. And I just miss it a little bit 119 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,320 and run it past a bit further than anybody would have wanted 120 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,760 to and managed to whack it straight in. 121 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,880 So when I see the Ross, when I see the video of it and I see 122 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,920 the way I knock it in to hold it, to win it, I'm really proud 123 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,000 of the fact that I did that because it was completely 124 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,360 autopilot. And you know, and if anyone had 125 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,720 just stopped me and said hang on a minute, take your time, take 126 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,760 your time. So this could change your life. 127 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:31,600 Take your time. Anyone? 128 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:35,200 Anyone want to put anything in my head other than I'd done that 129 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,600 for years on tour? I was AI, was a decent holder 130 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,120 out and marked the ball, turned the logo facing the hole and 131 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,200 worked it in so it was pretty cool. 132 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,760 Yeah. What way to finish until you 133 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,800 mentioned the exemptions and stuff, Andrew, but what did it, 134 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,000 did it change anything for you in terms of your wider golf 135 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,600 career etcetera? Yeah, I mean massive, massive 136 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,720 change because you perhaps don't know, but I had a underlying hip 137 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:08,160 condition and I was told I'd missed the qualifying in a 138 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,160 playoff for the Open in 89. I think that was true, was it? 139 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,800 And I'd come home in real pain. I was really struggling to play. 140 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,360 I played the Scottish Open the previous week, mate, played all 141 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,760 four rounds and I played two rounds in qualifying and then 142 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,320 six holes in sudden death to get into the Open and didn't get in. 143 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,640 So I drove home in in agony and saw my consultant the following 144 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,880 day and he said we need to scan this. 145 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,720 And he X-rayed me and he said, Andrew, he said, you're going to 146 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,080 have to think about something else to do. 147 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,000 He said, have you seen this? Look at the the difference 148 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,040 between this was six months ago and this is now. 149 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,480 And and that was the Tuesday, I think maybe even the Wednesday 150 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,640 of the Open Championship, which I wasn't then playing in. 151 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,800 And well, that was a bit of a shock. 152 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,600 Yeah. And he put me on some medication 153 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,640 which really helped take the inflammation away a little bit. 154 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,040 And I suppose the rest is history. 155 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,720 I managed to play for another four or five years, which I I 156 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,080 was destined not to do, really. So. 157 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:10,720 Yeah. And the fact that I want 158 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,160 whatever it was two months later was ridiculous. 159 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,880 Really. Yeah. 160 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,560 So it it was a what it did, Ross was enabled me to plan my year a 161 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,240 little bit more carefully. I milked it a little bit, 162 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,120 obviously, because I got an invite to play in Japan and then 163 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,400 I went over to play in the nominal experience. 164 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,080 I was the only Englishman there. So raising the flag of Saint 165 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,240 George over the first tee before the before the first tee shirt 166 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,919 was hit was phenomenal. Yeah, I was really proud, Really 167 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:44,280 proud moment. And so, yeah, I never really 168 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,880 played great after that. I played bits, fits and starts. 169 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:53,200 But the week after I played the Lancome Trophy, which I wasn't 170 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,960 otherwise exempt for, so I've got myself in that. 171 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,480 And then all of a sudden I was in that the previous the 172 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,520 following day, fully enough. I was playing in Peter Alice's 173 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,160 Pro Am the following day. And Peter Alice was 174 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,600 commentating. And then I remember going into 175 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,560 the scores tent saying, do you think I can pull out of the Pro 176 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,360 Am tomorrow? And Jenny said, you've got to be 177 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,120 kidding me, you can't pull out of Peter's Pro Am. 178 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,520 So I said, yeah, OK, I suppose that was right. 179 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,000 So I went down with my wife and my youngest. 180 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:27,160 Then we only had one child and went down to Ferndown and played 181 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,720 and Peter made a big fuss of me and so did all the celebrities 182 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,920 guys down there. I remember Henry Cooper giving 183 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:38,440 me a big hug and and all the celebs of that of that era. 184 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,480 You mean Tarbot made a fuss of me and stuff and it was 185 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,960 fantastic. I was on Cloud 9 and I'm sure 186 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,280 62, I think. Yeah, I did. 187 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,200 I think it's a card there. Six. 188 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,840 Yeah, 62, it's on. It's on the wall. 189 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,600 But you were glad you went then. So I've shot 62 one by about 190 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:01,160 five shots from Hugh by Aki and then what obviously that was a 191 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,240 bit more money. And and then I've got exemption 192 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,080 to the Lancome Trover, which is a limited field event because 193 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,200 I've gone up to the top 30 or whatever it was in the 194 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,080 Audrimerit. And our shot 64 in the first 195 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,840 round to lead by two from Nick Faldo and Curtis Strange. 196 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,360 I remember although saying to me as I walked to the press 197 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,760 conference after the round and he went, he just turned his head 198 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,000 and went nice round. Oh, thanks, Nick. 199 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,280 And yeah, yeah, that was that was a bit surreal really. 200 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,000 And and then I what do you think I've shot in the next round, by 201 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,240 the way, having won the European out And on this Sunday I shot 202 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,040 62, on the Monday, went over to Lancome and shot 64. 203 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,080 It clearly wasn't as low as you'd have liked it to be, so 204 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,480 I'm going to go with like 74 something. 205 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:56,960 Like that it was plenty more Upshot 78 and well, it was just 206 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,360 a reaction. I played with Sam Torrance and 207 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,240 Mark McNulty so I was up, you know, with the big guns and but 208 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,640 I shot 6568 to finish 5th or 6th or 7th thereabouts. 209 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,520 So it was pretty, pretty tasty finish another few Bob bit 210 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,200 further up the Audra Merit and going to Valderrama and yeah, 211 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,640 played played pretty good for a while after that. 212 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:24,680 Absolutely. And we've jumped, I guess, right 213 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:28,600 into a great part of your career, Andrew. 214 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,920 But how did it begin? How did you get into golf? 215 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,440 What got you hooked? Just started. 216 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:34,480 I was decent. I was. 217 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,000 I was probably a decent sportsman, I suppose at school 218 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,080 of decent I was in captain the football team. 219 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,000 I was never very good at RUG because I was too, too much of A 220 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,040 wimp. I was a fast, fast runner, so I 221 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,800 was on the athletics team and I was a good cricketer, spin 222 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,440 bowler, played Lancashire. I played all that sort of local, 223 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,080 local standard boys stuff and then I was just better at golf. 224 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,280 I suppose. By the time I was 14 or so I was 225 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,320 playing off about 7 or 8. Used to carry for my dad down at 226 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,520 Didsbury Golf Club where I'll still play occasionally. 227 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:14,320 In fact, I still play regularly. Yeah, just became a bit better 228 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,680 at golf than the rest. Really was never the the 229 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,920 sharpest tool in the in the in the box. 230 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,880 I suppose in terms of academically, my brother was and 231 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,200 my sister was fairly. But I think I got the brains in 232 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,960 my hands and yeah, turned pro 16, wanted to be an assistant 233 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,840 pro. All I wanted to be was was like 234 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,000 the club pro Didsbury, a guy called Brian Neal, who was my 235 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,840 mentor and guide and he taught me when I was 10 or 11 and I 236 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,160 finished up being his assistant when he'd moved up to Bramwell 237 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Golf Club in Cheshire. So yeah, I went up to join him 238 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,240 on my 16th birthday. Well, actually it's a day after 239 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,960 my 16th birthday. Left school with one woodwork O 240 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,000 level and then went as a as a, an apprentice pro. 241 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,880 So, you know, proper old school journey really of and then won a 242 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120 few things in the assistance leagues and assistance 243 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,520 championships and stuff like that. 244 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,520 And, and the tour was really right in its infancy then being 245 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,600 tour players division as it was then was just making a bit of a 246 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,120 a split from the PGA as it was because it was all in one 247 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,960 European Tour wanted to go in a different under a different 248 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,120 guise. And it's and and so that whole 249 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,640 journey began and that's where I'm at. 250 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,720 John Parrymore and George O'Grady and and Co when I went 251 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,920 to the first tour school in Foxholes. 252 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,920 If you've been enjoying the show, please do remember to 253 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,440 follow on your favorite podcast platform and share it with a 254 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,640 friend. Now let's get back to the pod. 255 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,080 Wow. And you've, yeah, some of the 256 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,200 people you've come across in your career, Andrew, it's 257 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,480 phenomenally mentioned John Parrymore there. 258 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,400 And yeah, who created us. Phenomenal you were. 259 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,040 There, I mean, they were the three guys alongside Ken 260 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,880 Schofield, who who effectively started the European Tour. 261 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,360 And a really good friend of mine, John Jacobs was sort of 262 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,320 grandfather. He, he basically brokered the 263 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,680 deal between the PGA and the European Tour to, to make the 264 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,400 European Tour Players division, as it was known then into what 265 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,720 we know now as the DP World Tour. 266 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,920 It was PGA European Tour, so yeah, that that old split was 267 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,920 needed brokering it needed it, needed a diplomat to do it and 268 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,880 John was the man. Wow. 269 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,240 And then attempts your progression. 270 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,240 So you mentioned as an assistant you started running events. 271 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,160 How long was it then before you started playing in the European 272 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,840 Tour against these guys and and competing with them? 273 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:57,440 From a tour card, I think it was 77 and I think Sunday Lyle won. 274 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,400 I can't remember at the 7778 maybe I remember Sunday Lyle won 275 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,520 the first one. David Russell was going well and 276 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,000 he finished first or second in one of the early ones. 277 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,520 He was then missed his card for the first couple of years. 278 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,720 Barry Lane also had several goes at the tour school before he got 279 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,160 a category and became a world championship winner. 280 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,680 So it was, it was probably 3 or 4 years before I'd probably had 281 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,560 a card and kept a card. And then that was just at the 282 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,920 time where the, the tour became all exempt. 283 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,280 So it was Monday qualifying used to go on a Monday out a caravan 284 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,880 though, which are parked at the back of a club Brilliant and 285 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,080 with a Palomine Dave screen and, and we used to try and qualify 286 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,760 on a Monday. And if we didn't qualify on a 287 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,840 Monday, you were back at the club practice in or playing a 288 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,720 pro AM. So that was Monday qualifying 289 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,520 and that soon became the all exempt tour. 290 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,440 So the first twenty 125 players in the tour became all exempt 291 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,160 and didn't have to do that Monday qualifying. 292 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,960 So that was, I don't know, early 80s probably. 293 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,840 I need to ask if you. Get any caravan stories, any 294 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,680 disasters or funny moments in the caravan. 295 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,760 I got plenty of caravan stories, some of which I could share and 296 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,520 some of which I can't. That's where you can share them. 297 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,960 We were, we were fishing alongside Locker in Scotland, 298 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,040 playing in the what was the Double Diamond Championship, 299 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,600 which became the Scottish Championship of I guess, I don't 300 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,480 know if anyway, the Double Diamond was played at Glen 301 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,640 Eagles and we've qualified and I don't know, I can't remember the 302 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,320 course I qualified on. Anyway, I qualified at a nearby 303 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,920 course. I've tried to qualify a nearby 304 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,320 course and my pals have keen fishermen. 305 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,000 Excuse me. And we went down, we parked up 306 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,000 near Locher in a caravan site, went fishing and then he dropped 307 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,560 the caravan keys off the off the jetty into the water. 308 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,160 So he came back with a couple of fish, but no keys to get in the 309 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,920 caravan. Yeah, we've had a few. 310 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,480 And then we, we went to play a tournament once where we were 311 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,640 going up the steep hill. It was in Bristol somewhere. 312 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,520 And for the Under 20 Fives Championship, my car was towing 313 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,839 this caravan wasn't powerful enough to get the car and the 314 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,240 van up the hill. So it was somewhere like Cleve 315 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,040 Hill and Bristol somewhere. So we had to unhitch it, turn 316 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,480 the caravan round, turn the car around, hold the traffic up and 317 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,240 and go back down the hill and find another route to the club. 318 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,920 Yeah, yeah. Good old days of, of European 319 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,400 Tour. And Woosening was doing 320 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,080 something similar. He had a caravan, he had a VW 321 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,840 caravan app with a couple of pals of his. 322 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,360 Joe Higgins was one of them. And it was a, it was an 323 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,440 adventure, that's what it was. And it was, you know, I was no 324 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,160 idea that I was going to win the European Open five years later, 325 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,600 but or 10 years later, whatever it was. 326 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,400 Did you drive? Did you ever take the caravan 327 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,840 abroad? Because I've heard stories about 328 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,240 where's he taking our VW. No, I never took. 329 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,560 Germany stuff. Yeah, I never took the caravan 330 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,920 abroad. No, no, I wasn't that competent 331 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,520 at reversing it with the caravan attached. 332 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,480 I was, I was. I got quite good, but I wasn't. 333 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,120 Yeah. And during that time, I mean, 334 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,360 you're as great, you've had all that fun, but there must have 335 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,560 been some tough teams as well before you won the European. 336 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,960 Yeah, I mean, I was what was the liking for that? 337 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,280 Some people say to me, you know, you know, you've you've you've 338 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,680 done well. I don't think I've done well 339 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,520 particularly. I've I've won a tournament, I've 340 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,840 won a few tournaments, but not only once on the main tour. 341 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:38,320 But but those those years, the 1st 10 years, I didn't make a 342 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,320 being a money and I don't to this day know how I managed to 343 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,080 put fuel in the car and rent a flat in Manchester and do what I 344 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,000 did because it was literally hand to mouth. 345 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,480 And when you look at the record books, and I do occasionally, 346 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,280 you know, I won £2000 in 1983. Now how did I exist on 2000 LB 347 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,320 winnings and and to Bob playing and you just did, you just did 348 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,600 all sorts of jobs. I had jobs in the winter keep me 349 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,160 going and played in Africa and playing the safari tour in 350 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,960 Africa was the was the thing that changed in Wisdom's career 351 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,280 and and kept a lot of us. It was it gave a lot of us a 352 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,080 chance to make a bit of money in Africa before we came back on 353 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,520 the tour and blew it all again. And trust them. 354 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,000 So you get down there and went out effectively and. 355 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,640 Yeah, we did. Some we did. 356 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:36,280 We did six weeks on to West Africa into Nigeria, Nigerian 357 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,840 Open, then a Pro AM before that, then the Ivory Coast Open in 358 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,080 West Africa and obviously in Abidjan, Ivory Coast and then it 359 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,520 went over Trans Africa. Remember getting the Ethiopian 360 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:56,960 Airways overnight from Abidjan in OH in the Ivory Coast over to 361 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:02,640 Kenya to play the Canyon Open. Then we played from the Canyon 362 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,880 Open, we played in the Zambian Open from there. 363 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,080 Then we went down to Zimbabwe and played the Zimbabwe Open and 364 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,720 then came home. Wow. 365 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,920 Fantastic days they were they were, you know, 5040 British, 366 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,320 mainly British golf pros travelling over there all 367 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:25,000 getting burnt and inappropriate with with with the gear they 368 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,680 were wearing and all that stuff. It was a bit daft really, but it 369 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,440 was, it was a, if it wasn't for the Europe, for that safari, 370 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,760 Tory and Wisdom wouldn't have made the breakthrough he did 371 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:39,360 because he, he, he, he won a Range Rover or something for 372 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,400 finishing third in one tournament and longest drive or 373 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,520 nearest the pin or something, or all in one or something. 374 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,360 I think it was all in one and he won a Range Rover which was 15 375 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:51,560 or £18,000. But going back in the day and 376 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,800 that funded his European Tour in the next year, he's finishing 377 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,920 third. My goodness, that's incredible. 378 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:05,400 He and I actually, looking up he and I's career wisdom was 93rd, 379 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,720 I was 94, he was 91st, I was 93rd or whatever. 380 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,240 For two years we were to in and fro in, but in the 90s. 381 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,200 And then he went to 3rd and I stayed at 103. 382 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,680 Yeah, yeah. And then he went to 4th and I 383 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,600 stayed at 104 or something. Yeah. 384 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,440 So it was making literally making 2 Bob. 385 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,440 You've mentioned wisdom and there's others here as well. 386 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,560 I guess he impressed you, but who impressed the most when you 387 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,400 are you are playing with the most? 388 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Is it a few? I think well, savvy was probably 389 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,480 the most impressive because savvy was was God, wasn't it? 390 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,400 And he was an inspiration to us all because of the way either 391 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:51,080 way he played be some of the shots he hit were off the charts 392 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,320 ridiculous good and bad, of course. 393 00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:00,920 So savvy was unbelievable filed over his mentality and and and 394 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,880 probably Langer for his mentality and he's he's he's a 395 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,800 gentleman, absolute gentleman to play with and a phenomenal work 396 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,880 workhorse. But the two most talented, I'd 397 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,520 say wisdom and Lyle were the two that that really stand out. 398 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,440 They were absolutely outstanding. 399 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:25,000 And when a Borg was leading the recent Players Championship, I 400 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,480 think I I was on Five Live and I'd said the a Borg reminds me 401 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,560 of Ian Wisdom and Tom Watson rolled into one. 402 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,600 He plays without any fuss whatsoever. 403 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,000 He he doesn't take much time over the ball. 404 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,040 He pulls the trigger quickly. He plays briskly. 405 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,960 He's got that beautiful crisp swing like Wisdom was and like, 406 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,440 like Tom Watson was. It was a very repetitive, crisp 407 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,600 rhythm to to his game. And yeah, it really impressed 408 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,120 me. Wisdom was phenomenal player. 409 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,440 Absolutely. And you mentioned broadcasting 410 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,160 there. So how did you get into the 411 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,800 broadcasting? What happened to take you there? 412 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,840 This year is going to be my 35th on Radio 5 Live. 413 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,560 Radio 5 Live hasn't been existing that long, but it was 414 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,640 Radio 2 back in the day. And I got a call from a 415 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,080 broadcaster called Renton Laidlaw, very famous 416 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,280 broadcaster, Laidlaw, Renton Laidlaw, Scottish guy, you might 417 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,720 know. And he phoned me up. 418 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,800 I had not qualified for the 91 Open at Birkdale and Birkdale's 419 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,120 half an hour from where I live, 40 minutes. 420 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,960 And he said we need someone for Radio 2 to do some summarising. 421 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,080 Would you be interested in doing it? 422 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,160 He said you've got a great reputation. 423 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,960 You've you're a winner. You've, you've got, we can hang 424 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,320 the hat on the, you know, you're a former European Open champion 425 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:50,160 now, Andrew, so we can use that. And so I said, yeah, I'll do the 426 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,600 weekend. I did the weekend for them and 427 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,880 I've never done broadcasting, never broadcasted before. 428 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,720 And I was thrown out with one of the one of the commentators and 429 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:06,240 just was asked to give my views on on on what what was in front 430 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,800 of me and I said, have you got any tips? 431 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,560 He said just tell us what you see. 432 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,360 And don't forget every listener is blind. 433 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:13,520 That's the only thing he's told to me. 434 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,160 He said just be yourself. You see, you've got a great 435 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,600 voice. You know the game and tell us 436 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,000 what you see and don't forget everybody is a that's listening 437 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,080 to us is blind. So if he's, if a player's got 438 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,280 red trousers on, tell us. If he's got white shoes and 439 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,240 everything else, tell us. Because don't forget, you know, 440 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,160 it's not ATV audience, it's a radio audience. 441 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,840 So you have people driving down the motorway. 442 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,840 Don't leave any silences because people will start, start 443 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,640 retuning. Just tell us what you've what 444 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840 was in front of you, and when we want you to shut up, we'll tell 445 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,560 you to shut up. And what was it like to 446 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,520 commentate in the game versus playing? 447 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,080 At that time it was unknown nerve wracking at first, really 448 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,840 nerve wracking because when you look at the when you see the the 449 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,360 listening numbers now you know, we get big listening numbers to 450 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,080 Five Live on a Sunday afternoon for the Open and Saturday 451 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,520 afternoon for the for the Open Championship. 452 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,560 And of course, if will service join us, which sometimes they 453 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,160 do, then it's it's proper global audience. 454 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,360 And if you thought about the audience you would broadcasting 455 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,440 to, you probably would be you wouldn't get words out. 456 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,200 And occasionally, you know, I don't you, you get tongue tied a 457 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,080 bit. But and I've made some serious 458 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,320 faux pas with a microphone, live microphone. 459 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,480 But I've been all over the place with Five Live and, you know, 460 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,680 been to the US Masters about half a dozen times and the 461 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,120 several Ryder Cups and the US Open at Pebble and saw saw Tiger 462 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:43,360 win at Pebble by 13 or 15 shots, whatever it was back in 2000. 463 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,720 That was phenomenal experience to broadcast on that. 464 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,200 So yeah, I've been been dead lucky. 465 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,680 And the fact that I've done it for so long means I've not 466 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:58,400 qualified for the last 35 Opens. I suppose that's the only way I 467 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,040 can put it. And were you trying to qualify 468 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,360 in a lot of those years as well? To be fair, tried in 91 missed 469 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:11,760 and I must have tried 92939495. I finished playing, so probably, 470 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,560 I probably didn't qualify for those four or five, but it's 471 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,200 hard to qualify for the opening. Those days it was, you know, 472 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,840 immediately after the Scottish Open and immediately the two 473 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,440 rounds after the some Saturday finish of the Scottish Open, it 474 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,960 was on the Sunday and Monday. And so if you'd played the 475 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,920 Scottish Open for a week and then went straight into final 476 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,040 qualifying, you didn't have a practice round or anything else 477 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,560 on on the courses you were straight in. 478 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,080 And you know, for I was looking at, I did qualify for two or 479 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,560 three, but I never did any good in them. 480 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,320 Remember when I actually went up to open qualifying must have 481 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,160 been for Saint Andrews Open, I would guess. 482 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,600 And I was looking at leaderboard, someone that I knew 483 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,680 was playing. So I've kind of wandered up to 484 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,240 this leaderboard looking for a name and I look up at the top 485 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,320 and I'm reading because I had you were for the top guys that 486 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,600 were leading had all their scores. 487 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,760 And I looked and Mark McNally shot 61. 488 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,080 I'm like, wow, that's some score around leaving. 489 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,640 I started to a six. I'm not joking. 490 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,920 So he started, I started double bogey. 491 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,760 Then I think he birthed seven or eight in a row to be out in 492 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,960 about 29 and I'm like, what is going on? 493 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,240 And that was phenomenal. Seeing those types of scores 494 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,760 around you, a place like leaving and just considering that Marvin 495 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,360 that, no, he's just such a great player. 496 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:36,680 But to see it, just getting there and looking at what the 497 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,240 other guys was going, I think he was leading by like 3 or 4. 498 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,760 It was phenomenal to see. Yeah, there's been, there's 499 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,640 always some terrific scoring done, open qualifying from from 500 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,240 some really good players. But yeah, so I got into the 501 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,680 broadcasting going that way and did OK. 502 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,040 I must have done OK and didn't qualify the way after. 503 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,560 So I commented on father when you feel the year after and then 504 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600 off the top of that, I don't know where we were the year 505 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,360 after that in 93, certainly there was a Turnberry 94 for 506 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,280 Nick Price. So yeah, been done some really 507 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,760 good ones. Yeah, absolutely. 508 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,680 And then you went back to plain No, Mark. 509 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,160 So you went back to seniors tour. 510 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,240 So yeah, how did that go? I did it a bit half heartedly 511 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,840 really. I was, I'd, I'd created a 512 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,120 corporate business back here in Cheshire. 513 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,800 So I was travelling and doing all sorts of stuff with 514 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,480 corporate in the corporate world. 515 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,360 And I was 50. I was injured actually. 516 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,960 I had a knee surgery so I couldn't play the first year. 517 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,600 So I got a medical exemption for the year after and played and I 518 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,480 played all right, mostly. To be fair, I didn't put as well 519 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,400 as I used to put and I played better than I've. 520 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,800 I probably played better than I scored or I felt I played better 521 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:54,520 than I scored and I had a cut. I had some mixed results really. 522 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,360 I had some good results. I should have won the PGA up at 523 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,760 slate at all. Didn't really put well enough in 524 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,120 the final round. Should have won in in in Spain 525 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:10,160 against Carl Mason and he better did the last and I didn't. 526 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,840 I bogged it in fact and it was just didn't quite run. 527 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,680 The ball didn't quite bounce for me, you know what I mean? 528 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,240 It was just not quite, I wasn't quite on it. 529 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,640 I was finishing 4th or 5th a few times and then, you know, 530 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,440 finishing 30th and I didn't want to finish 30th because we were 531 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,040 making zero money. And it was, I was only wanted to 532 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,640 play if I was going to be competitive. 533 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,080 And, and then I played for seven or eight years on and off and 534 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,320 then I still kept my exemption and then I lost my exemption. 535 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,720 This guy said one of the tours guys said to me you're going to 536 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,680 go to the tour school. I said no, no, no I'm absolutely 537 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,920 done. I can't be bothered, that's me 538 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,800 done. He said why don't you just go to 539 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,880 the school, tour school. He said there's 5 tour cards, 540 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,720 you only need to win one of them and I've went back home and my 541 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,320 son was then playing a bit. He was fantastic player. 542 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,720 Tom and I said one of the guys at the tour was thinks I have to 543 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,960 go and try and go to tour school and go and try and win it. 544 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,280 And he said, well, why don't we, I'll carry for you. 545 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,600 So I said, OK, well, I'm only going to go if I take the big 546 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,160 bag and and think I'm Billy big balls. 547 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,360 I'm not going to go and carry the bag with a pencil bag. 548 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,760 And I said, we're going to go as big cheeses and let's just give 549 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,920 it the real confidence of. So we said, right, I'm up for 550 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,800 that. So we took the big bag. 551 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,160 Hardly anybody had a big bag playing the tour school. 552 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,280 They were all carrying the bags or putting them on power caddies 553 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,320 and skin flinting right, left and centre. 554 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,400 And anyway I went, I was 58 and went and won it, which is 555 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,040 ridiculous. I won it by two and I think I 556 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,680 was the oldest winner at that time. 557 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,440 And, and that was such a thrill to play. 558 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,040 And I played really nicely. I played great all four days and 559 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,720 I don't think I missed the shot hardly for four days. 560 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,680 And Tom was, Tom was rightly very, very proud of, of his, of 561 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,440 his old fellow and the way he won and all that stuff. 562 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,760 So to have Tom on the bag was phenomenal. 563 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,160 So I did play the following year, but I was trying to run a 564 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,200 corporate business and trying to run a corporate business at the 565 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,400 same time. As you know, getting over to 566 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,720 playing the Travis Perkins Masters on the Thursday and 567 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,720 doing a corporate gig somewhere on the on the on the Tuesday 568 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,600 was, was hard. And I was playing against people 569 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,640 that were full time players and I was, I had a full time 570 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,520 business. I was employing 3 or 4 people. 571 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,200 So it didn't quite work out, but I don't regret it. 572 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,640 I don't regret having a go because it was great. 573 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,200 And what a great memory as well to have your son in the bag and 574 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,000 do that and win the tour school. Yeah, that was. 575 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,400 Fantastic, isn't it? Yeah. 576 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,000 And I think it shot a few people up because this everyone, 577 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,120 there's a few people that were saying that the tour school was 578 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,080 closed shop and all that stuff. And of course there was only a 579 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,600 few tour cards. There's only 5. 580 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,640 But if at least if you win one of those five, you could get, 581 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,920 you could play full time. And if you win a tour card on 582 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,560 the main tour, you don't guarantee to play every week. 583 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,760 You're in the reserve lists like everybody else. 584 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,120 So the, the, it shut a few people up because you know that 585 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,160 actually if you, if you want a tour card, go and win 1. 586 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,640 You know, there's five of them. There's it's if you're not good 587 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,120 enough, you don't win, you don't finish in the first five, end of 588 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:14,800 story. So. 589 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,640 So I was dead chuffed about that. 590 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,880 Yeah. Didn't go back again. 591 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,760 I'd not do enough after that, really. 592 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,320 And then you've talked about your corporate business. 593 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:24,880 So what does that involve, Andrew? 594 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,840 Yeah, I'd started doing golf days for sponsors. 595 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,600 That's how it all started. When I when I finished playing 596 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:38,440 and had a new hip back in almost 2000, that loads of hip issues. 597 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,800 Anyway, I finished up with a new hip and started playing again 598 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,040 pain free pretty well, which was fantastic. 599 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,120 And then the corporate business sort of got a bit better. 600 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,840 I met people and I met people playing in tournaments and pro 601 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,800 ands and all the rest of it. And I was always keen on 602 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,160 relationship building. And so we, yeah, we built up a 603 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,120 decent business that that does and hosts corporate events and 604 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,600 pretty well. I'll do that with the help of 605 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,200 two or three other people back here in, in Cheshire. 606 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,600 So three people worked for me, Michelle, Sandra and Andy, and 607 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,200 without them it wouldn't exist. And I've, I've the wheel me out 608 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,160 occasionally and just put me, the wheel me out to do clinics 609 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,000 and talk to people about golf. No, we've, we've got a good 610 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,320 business. It's a really nice little 611 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,120 business where it's, I've got some fantastic clients. 612 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,400 I've just been up at Saint Andrews for three days for the 613 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,600 AMG Lynx Trophy, which is a three day event up at Saint 614 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,640 Andrews. And we've got a very loyal 615 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,920 following. And it's, it's really, it's 616 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,160 great stuff. Really enjoy it. 617 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600 And it's a sort of mostly single days. 618 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,920 Or can it be anything really? Could it be almost like a whole 619 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,240 week? Well, I'm one of the 620 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,320 ambassadors, ambassadors at Turnbury. 621 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,600 So we've got three day, 2 day events at Turnbury. 622 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,720 We do three a three day event at Saint Andrews. 623 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,160 I'm hosting a trip, five day trip to South Africa for some 624 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,880 clients in early April. So it's, you know, it's, it 625 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,159 keeps me busy. I'm, I'm out to Monterrey next 626 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,000 weekend for some clients for two days in Portugal. 627 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,440 So, and we host loads of other stuff for individual companies. 628 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,800 So I'm really busy. I speak a bit, do a bit of after 629 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,639 doing stuff. So I'm, I'm busy. 630 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,320 I feel like I'm not slowing down and I should be really. 631 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,480 It's the oldest time. Andrew, how's your relationship 632 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,320 with the game been? How's it changed over time? 633 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,960 You were obviously only 16 when you started as a pro. 634 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,080 Yeah, and now I'm approaching 70. 635 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,520 I can't believe I'm saying those words. 636 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,760 But anyway, I'm approaching 70 this summer and I still love the 637 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,239 game, Ross. I genuinely still love the game. 638 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:56,159 I played today with with a couple of pals and I just I 639 00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:59,520 don't I don't enjoy playing badly and I still play pretty 640 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:00,200 well. All right. 641 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,120 I played my brother on and the weekends in the in the club 642 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,360 medals quite a bit in the club competitions and I still hold a 643 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,800 handicap of, of actually point .5 or something plus .5 of the 644 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,080 game or plus .2 or thereabouts. And so I'm still play all right, 645 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,000 mostly. And I still get upset when I 646 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,520 don't play all right. But I love the game. 647 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,160 I just love talking about the game and I love coaching the 648 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,160 game and I love seeing people getting the kick out of the 649 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,240 game. And do you still feel the 650 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,960 competitive spark as well that well to 1 when you're playing? 651 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,880 No, no, no, I don't really. I mean, I'd like, I don't like 652 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:45,640 losing, but I don't go all out to no, no, I, you know, no, I 653 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,600 don't really. Do I get, I still get nervous 654 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,800 when I'm playing. I'm playing at Birkdale soon, 655 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,640 and I'll be nervous at playing playing Birkdale because I'm 656 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,080 playing with one of the members off who plays. 657 00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,440 It's about 70 yards past me. But so I don't like playing 658 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,400 badly. If I play all right, I'm fine. 659 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,160 Whether I win or lose. I get more pleasure out of 660 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,600 hitting the ball properly and I still work out and I'm still 661 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,720 pretty fertile. Yeah, fantastic. 662 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,440 Yeah. Well, Andre, thanks so much for 663 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,880 coming on. It's been a real pleasure to 664 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,640 hear from you. And if people want to get in 665 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,280 touch and find you, where can they find you? 666 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,600 Andrewmurraygolf.com We're on Andrew Murray Golf in on 667 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,080 Instagram and we're on Facebook and LinkedIn and various other 668 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,200 things. We've got a pretty active 669 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,160 website that we do all sorts of stuff. 670 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,160 So logoed merchandise and corporate hosting days and 671 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,640 speaking engagements and do some pretty good trips. 672 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,760 Had a great trip this winter to Abu Dhabi. 673 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,400 Actually, that was in January. It was, it was terrific. 674 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,920 So we hosted a dozen people over there. 675 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,320 It was fantastic golf. And yeah, we do all sorts of 676 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,240 various, various things. But I'm probably going to take a 677 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,600 bit of time out next year and, and try and slow down and play 678 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,000 some, play a bit more golf with pals. 679 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,920 And that I keep promising to play and never have time. 680 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,440 So, yeah, still love the game, still love talking about it. 681 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,840 So I really appreciate you asking me to come on your part. 682 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,000 No problem. Thanks so much, Andrew. 683 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,120 I really appreciate it. Thank you. 684 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,400 No problem Ross, good to see you. 685 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,720 I'd like to thank Andrew for his time, some brilliant stories in 686 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:24,840 there and a really honest look at what life in Professional 687 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,720 Golf was actually like, both on and off the course. 688 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,280 If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow or 689 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:31,640 subscribe wherever you're listening. 690 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,920 And if you know someone who loves the game or they're just 691 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,120 starting out, have been playing for years, send us their way. 692 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,400 You can find the show on Instagram at Linked by Golf 693 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,880 Podcast for future episodes, clips and insights. 694 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:44,200 And if you have a moment to leave a review, it really does 695 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,920 help us reach more golfers just like you. 696 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,440 I'm Ross McGuire. Thanks for listening. 697 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,120 Loman Golf Tours have helped thousands of guests build 698 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,160 bespoke golf trips to create a magical experience, travel and 699 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,760 style. Whether executive chauffeur 700 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,400 travel, whether it's golf on a major championship venue or one 701 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,200 of our hidden gems, 5 star accommodation or a boutique bed 702 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,360 and breakfast, or is it whiskey tasting on a private boat, Loman 703 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,920 Golf Tours are here to help build the tour of a lifetime. 704 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,280 Whether you're celebrating a special occasion or ticking it 705 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,360 off your bucket list, embark on a trip that you'll remember 706 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,680 forever. Visit www.lomangolftours.com.